Michael Moore Wins Top Honors...

[BigGulp]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Is that what the woman who was fired from her job

for photographing the coffins to show the real toll of Iraq vs the sanitized version brought to you by the

propaganda corp embedded reporters doing; exercising her right to free speech? Is that what the American people

were doing in Nov of 2000 when the majority of people voting in this country decided that Al Gore should be leading

the government vs having the election stolen by the military junta US Supreme Court; exercising their rights to

participate in a democracy? [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

<hr /></blockquote><font

class=\"post\">

If the American people hadn\'t been given the sanitized version of ALL that went on during

WWII, Franki and CJ would be Goose Steppin right now and Europe would be in total darkness.

As for the Election

of 2000, I for one like the Electoral College system although I understand how the concept is a little too

complicated for some to grasp.

\"military junta US Supreme Court\". Can you send me some of whatever

it is you bin smokin? PLEEEEEEEEEEESE.

[CJ01]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
If the American people hadn\'t been given the

sanitized version of ALL that went on during WWII, Franki and CJ would be Goose Steppin right now and Europe would

be in total darkness.

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\"> I didn´t get that sorry

[Pancho1188]

The Electoral College was created by the founding fathers because they realized that the average Joe was

too...\"uninformed\"...to make an educated decision on who was to become president.

[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

[BigGulp]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font

class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Our government isn\'t going to stop the film from being seen

<hr

/></blockquote><font class=\"post\"> That´s not what´s being said actually. I don´t think USA is very free to be

honest but that´s another subject perhaps [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] What I heard was that

it´s not the government itself but rather some powerful friends (in the film industry)who don´t want this film out

especially not before the elections.
I am ken to see whether or not Bush will get elected this time round or if he

loses and just refuse to move out of the White House and carry on squating in there

[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">


The hatred of

Bush by Hollywood and the promise of big Box Office $ will assure that the film will be seen in the USA. I don\'t

think it will be a big hit at the Theaters though.

I don\'t see Kerry winning the election but that can change

in a hurry. The election is still a long way off. Lots of talk from the\"Dark Side\" about another big terrorist

event happening just before the election. A very big event. What\'s that quote about living in interesting times?

[CJ01]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
the average Joe was too...\"uninformed\"...to

make an educated decision on who was to become president.

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\"> I think

that´s true somehow [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img] Maybe that´s why Thatcher remained in

office so bloody long ? [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] And maybe that´s why so many people in

germany voted for the morons again [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img]

[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[Pancho1188]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
If the American people hadn\'t been given the

sanitized version of ALL that went on during WWII, Franki and CJ would be Goose Steppin right now and Europe would

be in total darkness.


<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

I believe what BigGulp is trying to say,

CJ, is that if people would\'ve known the truth, there would\'ve been an outrage that would\'ve led to bombs

dropping all over Europe, causing a catastrophic nuclear attack and destroying country upon country.

...but

I\'m just guessing.

[Mtnjim]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
The Electoral College was created by the founding

fathers because they realized that the average Joe was too...\"uninformed\"...to make an educated decision on who

was to become president. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

<hr /></blockquote><font

class=\"post\">

Here I always thought it was a distance/communications thing.

[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

[Pancho1188]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font

class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
The Electoral College was created by the founding fathers because they

realized that the average Joe was too...\"uninformed\"...to make an educated decision on who was to become

president. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

<hr /></blockquote><font

class=\"post\">

Here I always thought it was a distance/communications thing.

[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

Well,

that\'s a reason why people were uninformed. Yes, it would\'ve taken months to gather all of the votes and

count a winner, plus the literacy rates were low...

[metroman]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
All this from a man who believes in lizard people.



<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

And what do you believe in? Christ, Mohammed, Jehovah, Buddah???

Makes about as much sense... [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img]

[metroman]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />

If the American people hadn\'t been given the

sanitized version of ALL that went on during WWII, Franki and CJ would be Goose Steppin right now and Europe would

be in total darkness

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

So The Ends Justify the Means ...Who

said that? Was it Marx in the Communist Manifesto?

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr

/>
As for the Election of 2000, I for one like the Electoral College system although I understand how the concept

is a little too complicated for some to grasp.


<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

Its not

complicated...it\'s easy...its called how to make everyone believe they participate in a democracy when in fact

the country is actually run by powerful elites &amp; corporations who could care less what the average citizen

thinks.

[JustPeachy]

Well, Metro, part of the problem is that people DO believe they are participating in a democracy, when in fact they

live in a republic.

Interestingly enough, although communications have improved, literacy rates haven\'t

changed a whole lot since back then, and considerably less since about 1870 - when the federal government stepped in

and started mandating curriculum the public schools. I found that little factoid rather shocking at first

[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img], but the more I thought about it...

[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif[/img]

[EXIT63]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font

class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
All this from a man who believes in lizard people.

<hr

/></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

And what do you believe in? Christ, Mohammed, Jehovah, Buddah??? Makes

about as much sense... [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img]

<hr /></blockquote><font

class=\"post\">

Santa Claus

[BigGulp]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font

class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
If the American people hadn\'t been given the sanitized version of ALL

that went on during WWII, Franki and CJ would be Goose Steppin right now and Europe would be in total darkness.



<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\"> I didn´t get that sorry

<hr /></blockquote><font

class=\"post\">


If the American people had been shown the \"real battle and after battle\" film footage of

WWII, during WWII, and been told the truth about just how brutal the combat was, especially in East Asia, the

anti-war movement would have grown in the USA and we would have pulled out without winning WWII. Just like we did

in Viet Nam. That would have left Stalin and Hitler to bang away at each other until they reached an agreement on

how to divide things up. GB would have been totally defeated and occupied by the Nazis. Who knows what Europe and

Eastern Europe would look like now if that had happened. Let alone East Asia. The \"pro-war\", US

government/Lizard people sponsored PROPAGANDA MACHINE during WWII, in the USA, was incredible. It shaped and formed

public opinion and kept it focused and concentrated on WINNING the war. To say they were controlled would be a

stretch but the news media, publications media and film media were all heavily influenced by the Government/Lizard

people so that they would all be telling the same \"Pro War\"/Lizard people story. Take a look at the American

films made during WWII. Their theme and content was not an accident. It was all very seriously orchestrated by the

Lizard people..... I mean Government/Lizard people.....I mean Government. Whew!

I hope that answers your Q CJ.



Metro. Ask Franki and CJ if the end justified the means in WWII.

Metro. I got to tell you man. Lizards have

such tiny primitive brains. I have to assume that the ones that are *really running things* have a little larger

brain than your run of the mill, ordinary, everyday lizard. But Dude, you ain\'t there yet.

Panch, you ain\'t

there yet either. Read a book man. Read a bunch of books. It\'s just sad.

[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

[Pancho1188]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />

Panch, you ain\'t there yet either. Read a book

man. Read a bunch of books. It\'s just sad. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

<hr

/></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

You know, I like how everyone labels what I say as \"sad\". Do you know

what\'s sad? People who take everything the media tells them and believes it. You know that the Spanish-American

War was started because the media made things look worse than they were? Yes, I know history. History tells me

that people will tilt stories in whatever way they can to make their case.

You think my hypothetical was so

\"not there yet\"? Do you know the first thing I heard come out of people\'s mouths after 9/11? \"Bomb them

all. Just get rid of all of them.\" How far-fetched is that, really? Japan bombed Pearl Harbor, and we took a

nuclear missle and shoved it up their asses. What do you think would\'ve happened if another country hit home,

huh? Is that so inconceivable?

Yes, that is sad. Very sad.

In case you forgot, there are many ways to see

the world...not just one. If thinking differently and breaking society\'s assumptions is sad, then I\'m proud

to be the saddest mother to ever live.

[metroman]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font

class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
All this from

a man who believes in lizard people.

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

And what do you believe in?

Christ, Mohammed, Jehovah, Buddah??? Makes about as much sense...

[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img]

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

Santa Claus



<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

Might as well throw in the Easter Bunny. See...I knew you were

Christian... [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[Elana]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font

class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
All this from a man who believes in lizard people.

<hr

/></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

And what do you believe in? Christ, Mohammed, Jehovah, Buddah??? Makes

about as much sense... [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img]

<hr /></blockquote><font

class=\"post\">

The Taco Bell dog

[Pancho1188]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font

class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
All this from

a man who believes in lizard people.

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

And what do you believe in?

Christ, Mohammed, Jehovah, Buddah??? Makes about as much sense...

[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img]

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

The Taco

Bell dog

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

Yo quiero Taco Bell.
I think I need a bigger box.
I

think I need a bigger box.
I think I need a bigger box.
I think I need a bigger box.
I think I need a bigger

box.
I think I need a bigger box.
Yo quiero Taco Bell.

[BigGulp]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font

class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />

Panch, you ain\'t there yet either. Read a book man. Read a bunch of

books. It\'s just sad. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

<hr /></blockquote><font

class=\"post\">

You know, I like how everyone labels what I say as \"sad\". Do you know what\'s sad?

People who take everything the media tells them and believes it. You know that the Spanish-American War was started

because the media made things look worse than they were? Yes, I know history. History tells me that people will

tilt stories in whatever way they can to make their case.

You think my hypothetical was so \"not there yet\"?

Do you know the first thing I heard come out of people\'s mouths after 9/11? \"Bomb them all. Just get rid of

all of them.\" How far-fetched is that, really? Japan bombed Pearl Harbor, and we took a nuclear missle and

shoved it up their asses. What do you think would\'ve happened if another country hit home, huh? Is that so

inconceivable?

Yes, that is sad. Very sad.

In case you forgot, there are many ways to see the world...not

just one. If thinking differently and breaking society\'s assumptions is sad, then I\'m proud to be the

saddest mother to ever live .

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">


It\'s good that you

have a goal Panch.

[Pancho1188]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />

It\'s good that you have a goal Panch.



<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

I thought so, too.

[CJ01]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr

/>
Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Quote:
----------

----------------------------------------------------------------------

If the American people hadn\'t been

given the sanitized version of ALL that went on during WWII, Franki and CJ would be Goose Steppin right now and

Europe would be in total darkness.




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I didn´t get that sorry




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------




If the American

people had been shown the \"real battle and after battle\" film footage of WWII, during WWII, and been told the

truth about just how brutal the combat was, especially in East Asia, the anti-war movement would have grown in the

USA and we would have pulled out without winning WWII.

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\"> okay thanks

for elaborating. I suppose that´s true in a way. I´m sure it´s true also that if the majority of the population

had known what the Nazis were really doing there would have been way more resistance in Germany, and other countries

right from the start.
However I still don´t get why it took the americans so long to get their bums across the

atlantic. They knew what was happening but that´s a whole different complex issue I guess.



</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
It was all very seriously orchestrated by the

Lizard people..... I mean Government/Lizard people.....

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\"> isn´t

everything? [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

[Bottle]

it

was an atom bomb not a nuke...and it was used to cut short a war that would continue to wage until both countries

where ruined.


BTW this tech (atom bomb) along with some essential raw materials to construct the bombs

was stolen from a German U boat near the end of WWII in Europe.*** The U boat was carrying the plans from Germany to

Japan. If it had reached Japan then NY would of been where those Atom Bombs would of been landing.


I wont

go into the conspiracies surrounding the Pearl Harbour bombing.


and I know it aint PC...but Pearl Harbour

was tactical genius. Its only luck that America didnt lose all its fleet ( or is it

[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] - did the lizards know what was up )

***near the end of

WWII, the U boat set sail before the End...but was captured after the end of the War, the ship\'s crew had no idea

the War had ended and didnt know about the precious cargo it carried. The U boat was sent with the plans cos the

Germans new the end was near...and felt the plans would better serve the Japanese to complete the designs on the

first Atom Bomb. The Americans Intel new of this very important ship\'s journey...and sent a fleet out to

intercept this U Boat.

very dramatic huh

-------------------------------------------
anyone seen

DAS BOOT, great sound track isnt it

[Pancho1188]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
it was an atom bomb not a nuke...and it was used to

cut short a war that would continue to wage until both countries where ruined.


BTW this tech (atom bomb) along

with some essential raw materials to construct the bombs was stolen from a German U boat near the end of WWII in

Europe.*** The U boat was carrying the plans from Germany to Japan. If it had reached Japan then NY would of been

where those Atom Bombs would of been landing.


I wont go into the conspiracies surrounding the Pearl Harbour

bombing.


and I know it aint PC...but Pearl Harbour was tactical genius. Its only luck that America didnt lose

all its fleet ( or is it [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] - did the lizards know what was up )



***near the end of WWII, the U boat set sail before the End...but was captured after the end of the War, the

ship\'s crew had no idea the War had ended and didnt know about the precious cargo it carried. The U boat was sent

with the plans cos the Germans new the end was near...and felt the plans would better serve the Japanese to complete

the designs on the first Atom Bomb. The Americans Intel new of this very important ship\'s journey...and sent a

fleet out to intercept this U Boat.

very dramatic huh

-------------------------------------------
anyone seen

DAS BOOT, great sound track isnt it

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

Thanks for the correction. I

incorrectly use the two terms interchangeably sometimes, but at least I don\'t say, \"Nucular\"...

[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

Good post. That whole disaster could\'ve been lessened in

severity had the guard known that they were enemy planes...it\'s a shame that they were expecting allied aircraft

around the same time they came or the damage wouldn\'t have been so devastating. But, as you said, it was a great

tactical move by Japan...although not a good long-term tactical move since it eventually led to its downfall, right?

[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]


CJ, the United States waited so long because before

WWII...well, the best description of how the US was then is Canada now. It kept to itself and that was it. It

didn\'t meddle with the affairs of the \'outside world\'. The outcome of WWII gave the US recognition as a

\"superpower\", and since then it\'s gradually become the \"Big Brother\" of nations. I remember my history

teacher\'s rendition of the US government during WWII:

\"They just took over _(enter one of many locations

here)_! We must do something!\"
\"No, we must remain neutral! We can\'t get involved in this yet! Let\'s

wait until we absolutely have to get dragged into this war!\"

The President held off until the last possible

moment for various reasons. The US didn\'t have the military power it does now among other reasons.

[Mtnjim]

\"The outcome of WWII gave the US recognition as a \"superpower\",...\"

Only because it was the only major

country whose infrastructure and manufacturing hadn\'t been devastated.

Pure \"luck\".

[Elana]

I

found just the tail of a lizard in my house today. I think Michael Moore is trying to send me a message.

[JustPeachy]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
\"The outcome of WWII gave the US recognition as a

\"superpower\",...\"

Only because it was the only major country whose infrastructure and manufacturing

hadn\'t been devastated.

Pure \"luck\".

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

Uhhh, seems to

me, there mighta been a little \"superpower\" involved there, ya think? Ohhhh, right-o. It didn\'t have anything

to do with the fact that people in Germany were already using wheelbarrows to carry enough cash to buy a loaf of

bread when Hitler came to power. You\'re right. Evil Empire. We suck.

[Mtnjim]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font

class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
\"The outcome of WWII gave the US recognition as a

\"superpower\",...\"

Only because it was the only major country whose infrastructure and manufacturing

hadn\'t been devastated.

Pure \"luck\".

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

Uhhh, seems to

me, there mighta been a little \"superpower\" involved there, ya think? Ohhhh, right-o. It didn\'t have anything

to do with the fact that people in Germany were already using wheelbarrows to carry enough cash to buy a loaf of

bread when Hitler came to power. You\'re right. Evil Empire. We suck.

<hr /></blockquote><font

class=\"post\">

I\'m sorry you didn\'t \"get it\". It has nothing to do with \"we suck\", it\'s just

the way things were. England, France, Germany, Japan, and just about all of the other European and Asian nations had

been devastated. Russia with their \"revolution\" had killed or deported the people with the skills to run major

manufacturing and farming operations. In other words, they had to \"learn\" to become a \"superpower\". Were you

simply considering military might, the Chinese outnumbered us 4 to 1. Before the war, the US was very isolationist,

after the war, we were fortunate enough to be \"in the right place at the right time\" to fill a vacuum.

Just

MHO

[Ash]

"Fahrenheit 9/11 gets help

offer from Hezbollah

Samantha Ellis
Thursday June 17, 2004
The Guardian

The controversy over Michael

Moore's Fahrenheit 9/11 just won't go away. The film, which is being advertised with the strapline "Controversy?

What controversy?", has been rated R by the Motion Picture Association of America, meaning no one under 17 can see

it. Distributors Lions Gate Films and IFC Films, opening the film next week, are appealing against the decision. The

rating came partly because the film shows images of US soldiers abusing Iraqi prisoners, images Moore says he had

long before the scandal erupted. He told Associated Press he kept quiet because he thought he'd be accused of "just

putting this out for publicity for my movie".

Anger at Moore is building up, too. Pro-military lobby group Move

America Forward is campaigning to "Stop Michael Moore from profiting in his attacks on America and our military";

Michael Wilson is making a documentary called Michael Moore Hates America; and the website

www.moorelies.com is out "to expose America's fakest pseudo-muckraker".



Meanwhile, in the United Arab Emirates, the film is being offered the kind of support it doesn't need.

According to Screen International, the UAE-based distributor Front Row Entertainment has been contacted by

organisations related to the Hezbollah in Lebanon with offers of help. All in all, Tony Blair must be relieved that

Moore is not going to make a film about him; Moore rebuffed the rumour in a message on his website headlined: "Sorry

to scare you, Tony. Michael Moore was just kidding." "

[a.k.a.]

Well, Metro, part

of the problem is that people DO believe they are participating in a democracy, when in fact they live in a

republic.

Interestingly enough, although communications have improved, literacy rates haven\'t changed a

whole lot since back then, and considerably less since about 1870[/img]

Where do you get this,

Peachy? According to the National Center for Education Statistics there was a dramatic rise in literacy between 1870

and 1979 (from 80% to 99.4% overall and 21% to 98.4% for African Americans).
Back in colonial days, literacy rates

were established by the percentage of people that could sign their own wills. (Not very scientific.)



http://nces.ed.gov/naal/historicaldata/littrend.asp

[JustPeachy]

Where do you get

this, Peachy? According to the National Center for Education Statistics there was a dramatic rise in literacy

between 1870 and 1979 (from 80% to 99.4% overall and 21% to 98.4% for African Americans).
Back in colonial days,

literacy rates were established by the percentage of people that could sign their own wills. (Not very

scientific.)



[url="http://nces.ed.gov/naal/historicaldata/littrend.asp"]http://nces.ed.gov/naal/historicaldata/littrend.asp[/ur

l]

Heh. Consider YOUR source! My figures came from some independent historians who specialize in that

period.

[a.k.a.]

Are you sure you´re

gonna get to see it? When exactly?

"Fahrenheit 9/11" was financed by Mirimax studios, owned by Disney

Co.. Disney didn’t want to distribute the film, so Mirimax founders Harvey and Bob Weinstein bought it at cost and

are going to show it through Lions Gate (a Canadian company) starting June 25.

Judging from Moore’s books,

the alleged connections between Bush and Bin Laden are probably going to be more of a spotlight on the business

agreements between the two families — not any kind of conspiracy theory. (Although I do hope Moore talks about how

Bush’s so-called “war on terrorism” is playing right into Al Qaida’s strategy.)

I expect the most shocking

part of this film will be coverage of the Iraq invasion. Moore managed to “embed” some of his people among the US

forces, which should provide an alternative view of what the troops think of their “commander in chief”. This may

well be why the film received an R rating.