Putting Mones to the REAL test!!

[Elana]

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Anyone who thinks that pheromones work most

prolifically by what they do to the wearer either hasn\'t been using for long or hasn\'t gotten relatively good

results from them, IMO.

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Then you would be shocked to know that

MANY guys here think that is the case. I am talking many of the regulars that have been using mones for a long time.

[bjf]

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What\'s \"often\"? It happens every now and then, and less intense

versions occur more reguarly.

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\"> And it never happens to you when you

don\'t wear mones? [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] BTW...I didn\'t mean \"you\" I meant

does that kind of thing happen often to people, where they are walking down the street and people stop dead in their

tracks and go all DIHL.

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It\'s one of those things where if

you were around me when I wear pheromones and get these results, you\'d would see what I am talking about.

Obviously, we can\'t do that though.

It is easy to differentiate between what happens without phermones (even

if one get\'s \"hits\") and the \"hits\" that you can get with pheromones, but it is not easy to describe to

you the difference in words. I guess I could best categorize it as, people forgetting about social boundaries and

being momentarily controlled by the pull of the pheromones.

When you see that pattern occuring, it displays to me

what pheromones can really do.

p.s. I haven\'t found any correlation between mixes that give me the best body

language and confidence and the ones that give me the best hits.

[Elana]

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It\'s one of those things where if you were

around me when I wear pheromones and get these results, you\'d would see what I am talking about. Obviously, we

can\'t do that though.

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

That wouldn\'t prove a damn thing.

You could put the mones on and believe in your heart of heart that they are working (even if you just put on water)

and you would feel like the biggest stud. Women would sense your confidence and be all over you.

I am NOT

saying that mones don\'t work on anyone other than the wearer. I am just saying we need to be opened to different

theories. Either way....it\'s a good thing. Nothing wrong with confidence in a bottle.

[bjf]

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Anyone who thinks that pheromones work most prolifically by what they do to

the wearer either hasn\'t been using for long or hasn\'t gotten relatively good results from them, IMO.

<hr

/></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

Then you would be shocked to know that MANY guys here think that is the

case. I am talking many of the regulars that have been using mones for a long time.

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Yea, I\'ve been told a lot of guys seem to be telling you that. Which is probably why I

wrote what I did. Because I have heard a lot of this talk, and I think it is shortchanging what pheromones can

do.

Everyone has different personal chemistries, which is why the products work so different. Perhaps some have

a chemistry that amplifies the effects of synthetics while others have one that squashes them. Therefore, not

everyone will get to see pheromones at their full potential. That does not mean that pheromones are limited but

that chemistry can be limiting.

[bjf]

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You could put the mones on and believe in your

heart of heart that they are working (even if you just put on water) and you would feel like the biggest stud. Women

would sense your confidence and be all over you.

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

I completely

agree. But that does not mean pheromones should be chalked up to body language and confidence boosters. They

effect the biology of others and are unlearned responses. This is probably why people get

momentarily taken out of their world or drawn from there focus.

The biggest challenge of pheromone use is not

the pheromones but in the delivery. The pheromones work, but it is not always easy to get pheromones

into other people\'s noses. If that does not happen, the only benefit is in how they effect the wearer.

[BassMan]

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</font><blockquote><font

class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Anyone who thinks that pheromones work most prolifically by what they do to

the wearer either hasn\'t been using for long or hasn\'t gotten relatively good results from them, IMO.

<hr

/></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

Then you would be shocked to know that MANY guys here think that is the

case. I am talking many of the regulars that have been using mones for a long time.

<hr /></blockquote><font

class=\"post\">

What she said.

[Sexyredhead]

I have seen so much discussion about the need to ACT THE PART of what you are trying to portray when using -mones

and how if you are NOT acting the part you are trying to portray that it seems to confuse people. I think the effect

on the wearer is a very large part of how -mones work. However, I also believe it does affect other people. But if

you\'re walking around with a lot of -nol on and don\'t want to talk to anyone, they\'re going to assume the

-nol is coming from someone else.

[DrSmellThis]

If people want to debate, great. One\'s position will become compelling when one includes the science.

[Helsinki]

OK, I\'ll try to avoid playing the \"overly confident new guy\" card, but I\'ve seen people turn around 180

deg. to look at me before, before I knew what a pheromone was . There\'s WAY too much going on and the

science is far too new to give absolute conclusive statements.
Thanks for your comments though. Good thread.
I

do believe \"hits\" based on pheromones alone do happen, but on very isolated instances, but I also think that

most the success posted here comes from many factors and variables.

[DrSmellThis]

You

are training to be a surgeon, and have expressed an interest in science here, so I am going to treat you like an

aspiring scientist.

There\'s a big difference between not being able to make \"absolutely conclusive

statements\", and not being able to say anything, based accurately in the now sizeable body of research.

[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img] You are saying the first to justify doing the second. We provided

you personally with a ton of information in the \"science\" thread. So on what are you now basing your claims?

[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

If you want to refute a position scientifically and

responsibly, you have to paint that position in its strongest light, rather than attack some weak, semi-relevant

fringe (e.g, rejecting the fields of psychology/psychiatry/psychotherapy based on errors of \"pop psychology\" or

Freud, as some have done in this forum. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img])-- if you want to appear

rational, that is. More particularly, somebody\'s silly DIHL report being unsound is not evidence against the

existence or effectiveness of pheromones. You first need to find the strongest collection of research in support of

the opposing position, then critique it fairly; giving it whatever benefits of the doubt it deserves.

When

we argue scientifically, we are far from the \"feel-good ballpark\" where \"everyone has a valid opinion\",

arguments imply relational tension, and the best argument is \"one that ends before it starts\".

[Helsinki]

All true.Good input. Perfectly documented and well stated. However, I have never said \"pheromones do not work\"

but I did say, and continue to say, there may be more involved. I think most of these hits come from a combination

of variables. The placebo effect being one . I have never said that the actual pheromones and their effect

on other people are not -scientifically- another of these variables. My main objective was to state that as

a \"young\" science, there isn\'t much \"hard\" evidence to prove either way. Tests have shown significant

differences in behavior of both males and females, but science has never said \"you put this on and you\'ll be

an animal at the club, guaranteed\" Nor do I believe you subscribe to that theory yourself.
In reading most of

your posts, I have respected your opinions, and I\'m almost envious of your knowledge in this field of science.

You obviously have studied more and researched more. But you have to admit that these \"hits\" are subjective, and

that even science is falsifiable.
You\'ve twisted my words just a bit, or maybe I was simply misenterpreted. I

stand by my opinion (as it was in the first place) that there is more going on than a simple whiff of

pheromones. And that as the research is still young, it\'s more of a \"hit and miss\" type thing.

But I\'m

willing to learn more.

[DrSmellThis]

Good reply. I don\'t intend to be patronizing here, as you already know much more about many medical things than

I do. But if you continue to grow in your scientific communication as you did from your previous posts to this one,

most physicians will have good reason to be envious of you, as a scientist, since the research aspect is a

bit underemphasized in med schools.

If you meant to say just that there are probably multiple effects

happening, and that folks here often expect too much from store-bought pheromones, then cool! There is no reason to

believe otherwise.

But the significant differences observed in studies have been significant in real world

(\"clinical\") terms too. Regarding the huge number of anecdotes here posted over the past few years, some of the

strongest effects have been reported when people forget they have the mones on. So there are negative mind

set and expectation effects to consider, not just typical positive placebo effects!

[Helsinki]

Sweet. An accord.

[fran1]

Helsinki you are right............
I think that is not only mones that works, but I think that the whole 5 senses

work and we still dont know really how they work......There are many factor that we need to research.
I meet a guy

that is making a research in vibration to atract the opposite, and believe me he is doing a good job.
He told me

that our sense of hearing is really develop but we did not develop this gift in the right way......
Believe me or

not, we can hear the heart vibration of each people we meet and we did not know how....sounds crazy but here is

something too......only for your curiosity people.........

[xvs]

Remember that pheromones don\'t necessarily wash out of clothing with one washing.

So if you re-apply to the

same shirt, even after it\'s been washed, you may be giving him an OD.