Pheromone becoming illegal???

[Max]

I visited

this pherome review site today, and read the following in red letters, which goes something like this.
There are

rumors that pheromones will become illegal in the US.
Any grain of truth in these rumors??

Scared stiff

[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

[Pancho1188]

To

my knowledge, it\'s like Bush trying to ban gay marriage. It\'s nice to scare people and make news, but

it\'ll never actually happen. I strongly hope that politicians have better things to do than ban a way for

men to get some...besides, if they ban pheromones, arrest me!!! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

They\'re all over me!!! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img] (I just realized...that is like saying

the dopamine in your brain and the dopamine shot that cocaine gives you is the same...damn, that just ruined my

argument [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]) Well, I seriously hope they have better things to

do.


People don\'t even think pheromones work, so to ban them would be to admit that they do...how interesting

a predicament this raises...wow, I just blew somebody\'s mind... [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

Maybe it was mine.

[Max]

Too

right! I second that. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
Underground pheromone market, and dodgy

pheromone dealers on street corners everywhere. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
Fingers

crossed. I just hope that they are not THAT stupid.

[oscar]

Max and

Pancho,

I\'m sadly underinformed about the details or the status of this issue personally, but it\'s been

discussed in some depth on at least a couple of the boards here (Pheromone Discussion and Open Discussion).

To

find out more do an \"All Forums\" search for \"prohormones\" and/or \"illegal\" with the date range set to

\"All Posts\".

There\'s quite a bit that\'s been written about it.

Me, I\'m in denial!

[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

Oscar [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img]

[Max]

Thanks

Oscar [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[DrSmellThis]

And the Stankians will move their civilization (if you want to call it that) underground. People will be

arrested for felony counts of smelling like pubes!

[jvkohl]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />

People don\'t even think pheromones work, so to

ban them would be to admit that they do...how interesting a predicament this raises...wow, I just blew somebody\'s

mind... [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img] Maybe it was mine.

<hr /></blockquote><font

class=\"post\">

Some very high ranking behavioral development specialists still don\'t think that the concept

of pheromones should be applied to humans. Others are threatened by extending the concept to humans. A huge threat,

in my opinion, is extending aspects of human chemical communication to include how pheromones work in human sexual

orientation. I\'ve attempted to publish my journal article on this topic in two prominent journals, and been

rejected twice for reasons expressed succinctly as \"we don\'t think it works that way\" or \"a more critical

review of the data is required.\" It\'s starting to annoy me. Here\'s my follow-up letter in response to the

latest rejection notice.

-------------------------------------------------------------
Thank you for your

comments/criticisms of my submission. The issues you note were anticipated. My additional comments are meant only to

briefly address these issues. Namely:

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
... the

level of scholarship, particularly the completeness and even-handedness of the literature review seemed

questionable. The referee, a competent and, just as important, REPRESENTATIVE members of the biobehavioral science

community concurred with my misgivings, and I accordingly did not send the ms. for formal review. The reviewer

felt the paper to be grounded in \"well-established aspects of hormones in development\" but felt there was little

critical evaluation of the research described, attention to failures to replicate, and the like.

<hr

/></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

If I had proposed an unsubstantiated mammalian model in which visual input

somehow directly links the social environment to the gene-cell-tissue-organ-organ system pathway to hormonal and

behavioral change, would reviewers would ask for a critical evaluation of the research described? I had hoped

reviewers would realize that there is no data -- let alone replicate studies -- that directly link visual input to

the neuroendocrinology of sexual behavior/orientation. Simply put, the visual link is not grounded in any \"well

established aspects of hormones in development.\" Nevertheless, the visual link \"attitude\" about human physical

attraction/sexuality prevails, and the mammalian olfactory link continues to prompt the need for more critical

evaluation.

I welcome the day when reveiwers begin to ask authors of papers detailing aspects of affiliative

behavior or other potentially sexual behaviors to include some information about the psychophysiology of the

developmental processes that are involved. We might then all begin to realize that our mammalian olfactory heritage

prevails, and that we only think we are responding to visual input because, unlike other mammals, we can think.



It is unfortunate that [ ] will not be the means by which the visual/olfactory approach to human sexual

orientation is thoughtfully addressed. I had hoped that [ ] reviewers would realize that all other proposed

sensory links to hormones and behavior should be critically evaluated, and that, minimally, the visual model might

thereby be compared with the olfactory model. If critical evaluation is needed, I believe it should be critical

evaluation of another model (is there one?) rather than requesting even more support of the only likely model

linking genetic nature and social-environmental nurture: mammalian olfaction.


-----------------------------------------------------
Does anyone think I\'m being to harsh?

[oscar]

James,

You might as well be telling the Pope that the Earth is an oblate spheroid that revolves around the sun.



The sooner you resign yourself to the possibility that your hypotheses may NOT be accepted during your lifetime,

the more likely that you\'ll be able to spend your remaining days in peace.

I\'ve got to give you credit for

hanging in there though!

Keep swingin\' !!

Oscar [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[cuddlebear]

They didn\'t like Galileo much either ...

[bjf]

JVK,

academia aside, you could get a lot of media opportunities with your study of homosexuality and pheros.

When are

we going to see you on Ricki Lake? You probably don\'t even know who that is, think a younger Sally Jesse Rafael.

[scentinel]

I

think this is how it\'s supposed to work:

Fase 1: \"That theory is a piece of crap. Every serieus

scientist knows it doesn\'t work like that. *Kids* know that. hey teach you that in second grade\".

Fase

2: \"Oh yes, ofcourse it works. It\'s just completely insignificant. Absolutely unimportant.\"

Fase 3:

\"Oh yes, those results *are* important. But we\'ve know this for years already.\"

Academic arrogance

has a way of pissing me off to the point I want to bash heads. Just don\'t give up because those environments are

flooded with numbnuts who couldn\'t identify a test tube if it was shoved up their... Well... You get the idea.

[SyraBrian]

The potential banning isn\'t directly about the concept of pheromones. Problem is, most pheromone products

contain precursor hormones that the body can develop into anabolic steroids.

So if pheromones get banned,

blame the \"cheating\" athlete!

[DrSmellThis]

Where\'d you hear that?

[Mtnjim]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Where\'d you hear that?

<hr

/></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

uhm.... Maybe here??

There was a thread a while ago that was a

loooong discussion about this (if I get a chance, I\'ll bump it) along with encouraging people to sign a petition.

[Phantom]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
I visited this pherome review site today, and

read the following in red letters, which goes something like this.
There are rumors that pheromones will become

illegal in the US.
Any grain of truth in these rumors??

Scared stiff

[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

THEY ALREADY

BANNED EPHEDRRA, YOU NEVER KNOW WHATS GOING TO BE NEXT (

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/02/

06/health/main598394.shtml ).

Lots of the Pheromones here are related to the \"Andro\" family;

IE.

ANDROstenone,ANDROsterone,ANDROstenol

ect...., VERY similar to the ANDRO thats in

\"Pro-Hormone\" supplements; ie. ANDROstenedione, ANDROstenediol, Nor-ANDROstenedione,

Nor-ANDROstenediol ect..

When the FDA put a ban on a chemical substance (Makes it schedual 1), it usually

bans all it\'s chemical cousins (analoges) to make it harder to find intermediates for cross/backward synthesis.

I.E. when they banned MDMA (ecstacy) the also banned; MDE, MDA, MBDB, Safrole (which is only like 40% similar! but

can be made into MDMA) ect.......


The only way you can get ANDRO if this happens is with a DEA License.

The

FDA is cracking down on the supplement industry alot more than before. Mones are going down...... who knows, lol

[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

[jvkohl]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
The sooner you resign yourself to the possibility

that your hypotheses may NOT be accepted during your lifetime, the more likely that you\'ll be able to spend your

remaining days in peace.

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

</font><blockquote><font

class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
They didn\'t like Galileo much either ...

<hr /></blockquote><font

class=\"post\">


</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
JVK, academia aside, you

could get a lot of media opportunities with your study of homosexuality and pheros.

<hr /></blockquote><font

class=\"post\">

Thanks for the moral support. I\'m relatively certain that the pheromone/sexual orientation

link will prevail sometime in the next 5 years. Unlike Galileo, in his time, the pheromone link is pretty much

common sense. For example, the same mammalian model for heterosexual development must be applied to homosexual

development--and we can be sure that homosexual preferences do not develop based upon visual input alone;

preferences develop due to olfactory conditioning of the visual response cycle. If the journal article were

published it would generate lots of media attention, I\'m sure--perhaps Oprah would call, or Ricki Lake. Honesty,

when The Scent of Eros book was released, Francouer and I got calls from every major TV news magazine, but no

followup, mostly because they couldn\'t figure out how to portray the olfactory connection via a visual medium

like TV. And a Newsweek magazine interview was rejected for their \"Biology of Love\" issue in 1995 because Randy

Thornhill, Victor Johnston, and Dev Singh were all focussed on visual input--and the Newsweek editor did not want

the olfactory contradiction.

A presentation submission for the Association for Chemoreception Sciences (AchemS)

was rejected because the review I was presenting on homosexual orientation was not considered original research.

Instead it was merely a literature review of about 10 different scientific disciplines. I didn\'t argue much,

though I\'ve presented similar reviews of heterosexual orientation three times at three different AchemS meetings

in the past without any question about the \"original research.\" Simply put, no one else has ever bothered to

think about it, much less present it--except last year when one group presented original research on homosexual

pheromones. My model fully explains their findings, but only if I can present it will the model be

tested.

It\'s a bit discouraging, especially now that the journal article has been rejected (despite my receipt

of a medal and diploma for my last journal article), but it is also very interesting to see how much rejection I get

before someone realizes that all this makes too much sense to suppress. Still, as much damage could be done from

mainstream media interpretations as failed academic presentations. The media would most likely misrepresent the

findings, or sensationalize them to the degree that they would be meaningless--just like failed attempt to present

to other researchers.

This Forum helps to maintain my perspective. Thanks to all!

[TopDawg2050]

If they break the news that it is becoming illegal, Bruce is going to fing an envelope in the mail with a large sum

of money and an order form [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

[Elana]

The

worst thing that can happen is that your eyes will pop out of your head. Nothing serious

[jvkohl]

Next

thing you know cigarettes will be banned, for all the same proposed reasons (sarcasm intended here), or

alcohol--nope, they tried that once in the USA.