How to reverse the "I like you" mistake, guys make

[Darkman84]

Thanks Gegodi, thank. I thought, I am the only person seeing things like that !!!!!


Hello

Darkman,

I don't feel offended at all. I appreciate your opinion and advice! That's mainly because I already

knew that you are right. I know that nearly every woman on this planet is like you and TRock say.
I don't

contradict your vision of the facts. But to quote deAngelo: It is always ones own reality.
I have met so many

different people living in totally different worlds ( not better or worse, just different ), and I believe the worls

around you is just as bad ( or as good ) as you accept it be.
Everybody has to create his own reality (like DAngelo

recommends to do ). I just do it in a different way. I am not a nice guy because I have learned to do so. I am who I

am, I am working on it trying not to betray myself and what I believe in. If a woman treats me bad, I tell her and

show her.
I'm sure getting woman is much easier doing what Trock, you and most others here say, but beeing honest

to myself: I could't have much respect for a woman who feels appealed when someone is bad and respectless towards

her ( especially when it is no natural respectelessness because of oneself but only caused by tactics ). It might be

ok to have a relationship in which I feel superior and fell to be the alpha male, but in the long run I couldn't

respect her and would no longer be able to look into the mirror, I would have to say to myself: "I am together with

a woman, and I know I don't respect her, but I am still together with her! Is that ok and fair ( even if she

doesn't recognize) ?????"
I never want to be treated like that. If a woman doesn't respect me, and I am

too dumb to see it,
she should be mature enough to leave me ( just out of a little remaining respect ). I would do

the same thing!

I know you are right Darkman ( generally speaking ). I know there are hardly any women beeing

more natural ans less manipulable, but they exist ( Gegodi meets them at times). I never met too many of them, but

in my close circle of friends there are relationships of that kind I am looking for, which got started in

different ways than usual. So unfortunaltely I know that what I belive in exists, and it would be gutless to give up

and simply change what I believe in ( and who I am )! I do that every day, developing myself, doubting and

questioning my positions, but I can't and don't want to give up
what is unfortunaly very deep in me ( and for

which I get alot of respect and esteem from my close friends ). They see the worth of my values and if a woman does

not see it... then I don't want her and it is her loss !

Just out of curiosity: Where do you expect me to come

from ????

I hear you, although, I think when trying the alpha male thing, you don't have to be TOTALLY

disrespectful, just enough to make yourself seem like the bad guy, so to speak. But I understand. I, too, am a nice

guy by nature. I never had to practice being nice. That's how I am. I DID however had to practice being the alpha

male because it was NOT my nature.

I also have friends that respect me for being the nice guy, but those are

friends. For the girls I am interested in, it seems that it doesn't work. But again, I think we understand each

other. You sound like me in a lot of ways.

[Darkman84]

I didn't

say you couldn't be nice, I said that "nice guys" are not so nice. I will replace "being nice" with being a good

person. You should be a good person. That's what the difference is between a "catch" and an "asshole". "Assholes"

bring others down to make themselves look good. "Catches" are confident in themselves and don't need to bring

others down to show that they are worthy. "Nice guys" do anything to please trying to get the approval they can't

get from themselves.

Again, you have to read the book to know where I'm coming from or else you won't

understand as well because you won't be using the same definition for the terms I'm using. Unless I make perfect

sense, which if you ask bjf is a long shot.

I understand perfectly what you're saying and I hope I

didn't confuse you by using those specific terms. That's really what I mean, but more in an alpha male sense. Not

to be a mean jerk but, to sort of be cocky and confident, like the alpha male. I think we are saying the same thing.

No confusion here.

[Indigo]

I hear you,

although, I think when trying the alpha male thing, you don't have to be TOTALLY disrespectful, just enough to make

yourself seem like the bad guy, so to speak. But I understand. I, too, am a nice guy by nature. I never had to

practice being nice. That's how I am. I DID however had to practice being the alpha male because it was NOT my

nature.

I can absolutely live with that kind of attitude and I hope for you that you will find

someone for whom you
don't have to "...seem like the bad guy" !

Sounds quite mature for a 20 year old boy

!!!

[Darkman84]

I can absolutely

live with that kind of attitude and I hope for you that you will find someone for whom you
don't have to "...seem

like the bad guy" !

Sounds quite mature for a 20 year old boy !!!

I hope so, too and thanks.

[Pancho1188]

Although I do

admit, I skipped a few sentences.

If you know what I'm talking about, you don't need to read it at all!





About the gay thing and being insulted...it depends how it's used. There's still the

stereotype that gay people are unbelievably attractive to women and have every quality they want in a man but can't

have...if that's the case, take it as a compliment! If it's because you're unbelievably feminine or

sensitive...well, take it how you want to...if you like how you are, who cares?

People know the stereotypical

way gay men act with women and vice-versa...who wouldn't want that?

Then again, as Seinfeld says, everybody

gets along when there's no possibility of sex.

[Darkman84]

If you know

what I'm talking about, you don't need to read it at all!



About the gay thing and being

insulted...it depends how it's used. There's still the stereotype that gay people are unbelievably attractive to

women and have every quality they want in a man but can't have...if that's the case, take it as a compliment! If

it's because you're unbelievably feminine or sensitive...well, take it how you want to...if you like how you are,

who cares?

People know the stereotypical way gay men act with women and vice-versa...who wouldn't want that?



Then again, as Seinfeld says, everybody gets along when there's no possibility of sex.

Ah, ok, I get it

now. In that sense, it would be a compliment.

[Gegogi]

Darkman writes. "Think

you're gay at first? Dang, you don't feel insulted? I would."

Actually it doesn't bother me at all as

I'm secure in my sexuality. Gay men rarely think I'm gay. Usually attractive women think I might be gay and it

often draws them to me. It certainly gets me laid more than most of my macho friends.

As far the cut off age

for women losing the alpha male attraction I think it's much lower than 35. By their mid-20s most women are looking

for a taste of the other side. My current girlfriend is 23, extremely attractive and likes me because I'm not a bad

boy. She had plenty of bad boys already and learned her lesson. I can be as sweet and nice to her as I want and she

returns it in kind.

[Pancho1188]

Actually it

doesn't bother me at all as I'm secure in my sexuality. Gay men rarely think I'm gay. Usually attractive women

think I might be gay and it often draws them to me. It certainly gets me laid more than most of my macho friends.



As far the cut off age for women losing the alpha male attraction I think it's much lower than 35. By their

mid-20s most women are looking for a taste of the other side. My current girlfriend is 23, extremely attractive and

likes me because I'm not a bad boy. She had plenty of bad boys already and learned her lesson. I can be as sweet

and nice to her as I want and she returns it in kind.

-Hi, Shmoopy!
--No, you're Shmoopy!
-No,

you're Shmoopy!
---Alright, you're both Shmoopy!


I would agree with Gegogi. I'm around all recent

graduates (mostly female), and I don't see one of them looking for or with a "bad boy"...you must lose it when you

enter the real world and you realize it's nasty enough without adding to it with bad relationships...



I was half-joking...but when I think about it...it makes sense. When you don't have a lot of responsibility, you

want to go out with people who live dangerously or cause chaos or whatever...a nice guy will put you to sleep. When

you take on all kinds of responsibility, though, you want fun andsupport instead of rebellion and attitude.

Maturity definitely comes into play. I know my last relationship died on this principle because I graduated and

could move to the next level of commitment while my ex was still in college and wanted to live it up...

[TRock]

gegogi i don't think you realize

this but your personality is type one of the 4 personality types that attract women. you are an artist, which is one

of the personality type. the other 3 are badboy, adventurer, and seducer. then you have the 4 nice guys types:

successful guy, daddy, regular guy, ass kisser.

being mach does necessarily convey alpha, you're more likely to

convey insecurity by showing how much of an alpha you are.

the reason that older woman settle down with anybody

is that their biological time clock is ticking. they have to settle for less or have no kids. these are also the

women that will cheat on you during the marriage. good example is princess diana and her 2 sons william and harry.

william is exactly like prince charles while harry is exactly like diana's friend. and guess what type of guy

diana's friend was....adventurer while you can include charles into the successful category. i also know guys in

the pick up community that specialize in having sex with married women. it's very common if the husband was a guy

the wife had to settle for.

[Snoopy]

-Hi,

Shmoopy!
--No, you're Shmoopy!
-No, you're Shmoopy!
---Alright, you're both Shmoopy!

No! I'm Shmoopy!!!

[Watcher]

25 seems to be the switch over

point from looking for alpha to looking for what has been termed omega (not a whimpy beta (submissive but not

necessarily faminine either) but someone dependable, strong, mentally up to the challange of fatherhood, someone

with a decent job.

[Pancho1188]

the reason that

older woman settle down with anybody is that their biological time clock is ticking. they have to settle for less or

have no kids. these are also the women that will cheat on you during the marriage. good example is princess diana

and her 2 sons william and harry. william is exactly like prince charles while harry is exactly like diana's

friend. and guess what type of guy diana's friend was....adventurer while you can include charles into the

successful category. i also know guys in the pick up community that specialize in having sex with married women.

it's very common if the husband was a guy the wife had to settle for.

I'm laughing at this post because

sensitive women would call you sexist (although I think you're just making an observation; I once jokingly said

we'd have to bring back polygamy if the female population lived longer than the male population and more men died

in wars or from stupidity...to which I got the intelligent responses of 106 boys are born for every 100 girls and

that women could live by themselves...which brings me back to my point) and "Prince Charles" and

"Successful"... ...I'd go with "Lucky"...I think royalty is luck. (you could say that bad royalty get

overthrown, but they have no power in today's society, anyway, and now you just have to be in the direct line of

the royal family)

Anyway, women don't necessarily "settle" for someone. They could rough it by themselves. I'm

sorry...I don't think I would settle with someone I didn't love...there's adoption, artificial insemination, etc.

for children if that's the issue for women.

Women usually don't cheat because they want to get some ass with

some guy they wish they had, it's usually because things aren't going well at home (e.g. they don't feel

appreciated, they don't feel romance, they don't love the person they're with anymore (meaning they did at one

point...not because they settled), etc.). No rational human being would marry someone just to have kids unless they

had low self-esteem and didn't believe they would ever have anyone else. That represents emotional problems,

though...

You're right about there being guys who specialize in married women, and they are good at discovering

and fulfilling those unmet needs at home. The most common is the woman that doesn't feel appreciated, doesn't get

enough attention, or isn't listened to at home. Believe me, that guy will give her all of the appreciation and

attention she would ever need, and he will sleep with her if she is willing to go there.

[DeMoKiLL]

Ok, First of all I don't think

being called gay is a compliment, it is VERY un alpha-male like. Here is the break down of a relationship. One

person is the lesser and one person is the greater. When the female becomes the leader she uses the male as a tool,

being TOO nice makes it seem like you WANT them, instead of making THEM want you. When a male is the dominant person

in the relationship usually the relationship can last for a long time, because the female won't be able to let go,

and if the male is perfectly happy with how its going he won't break up. You can be nice, but don't like be TOO

nice, make sure she always is aware of your power. Remember always think to yourself "Im sexy, if she doesn't want

me ill find someone else" don't think "Uh oh, is she going to like me, what should I say oh here she comes quick

brain think think" then you stand there say nothing and lose out. Ok now back to my side of the story, I went to

class today again, and again after telling her I wasn't mad at her yesterday she asked me again today. Then to test

to see if I was still ignoring her she called my attention to ask what problem she was supposed to do with homework

(with all ready knowing what it was). Then she was like what problem do we do etc etc im like what? then she says

nevermind and goes back to work. And I think she also stares at me sometimes, but you know I can't look at her

while shes doing it or she will turn away so.. Another thing, My friend that I know has been with practically every

single girl there is. He's a nice guy but he "gets it", he has a lot of confidence and gets phone numbers everday.

I actually asked a girl today "So you went out with (name)" "Yea" "Were you attracted to him?" "Yes" "Did he act

like an asshole most of the time" "Yes" "Who dumped who?" "It was kind of mutual". So if you are a "nice guy" and

you find out that your not getting the women you want or not getting as many dates as you want, try it out, listen

to deangelo's stuff and then TRY IT in real life. For the people who can be a nice guy and still get the ladies,

more power to you, you probably have something else going for you that other people do not. Always be open minded

about these sorts of things, if being nice isn't working unleash the wild side and see how people react.

[Pancho1188]

Who cares whether you're

alpha or not if you're getting some? Secondly, power is an illusion. If there is a "greater" and a "lesser",

then there is a problem. You only have the power people give you. If a woman walks out the door never to

return, what power do you have over her now? None. If you walk out the door on her never to return, what power

does she have over you now? None. Therefore, the only way to achieve balance is to work together. After all,

that's what a relationship is. Just because one is masculine and one is feminine doesn't mean one has power and

the other does not. They're just different kinds of power. Believe me...a woman who witholds sex just became

powerful. A man who just revoked the credit card in a relationship where only the man works or the man is richer

just became powerful. Notice how if one can be removed, so can the other. In addition, one person can just leave

the other. Again, it's a delicate balance of power...

If you believe that dominant power is the key, you will

either find a submissive girl with low self-esteem or be a very lonely man. You need to respect the power a woman

has while you exercise yours in a relationship. Go out for that beer with the guys, but don't forget her birthday.

Buy the 50-inch screen TV and be a couch potato during football games, but you've better sit and listen to her

talk about her day later. (you could switch this around and say that women could go to a really good Broadway show

or something, but they've better give their men good sex afterwords )

Balance is the key. The problem with

"nice guys" is they have none...and a jerk usually isn't willing to meet a woman half-way (after sex, anyway... )

to have a decent relationship.

[TRock]

this argument is starting to get

dumb. everybody can believe whatever they want, that's fine. for the dyd skeptics, you need to see c&f practiced by

somebody that knows what they're doing. you'll be amazed by what you see.

btw c&f is not equivalent to being

an asshole.

[bjf]

TRock, I think it works if it is

funny, and people maybe are losing sight of that, and thinking it does mean "be a sarcastic asshole."

Telling

jokes at her expense, showing you aren't afraid of the consequences, while also doing so in a manner where they

know it is a joke, is probably what that stuff is about, no?

That is why I kept asking whether the delivery

is supposed to be with smile (so they know it is a joke). DeAngelo says no, but he seems like a good comedian who

can do thngs with a straight face will delivering well enough so people realize it is a joke.

[Darkman84]

...Just

because one is masculine and one is feminine doesn't mean one has power and the other does not. They're just

different kinds of power. Believe me...a woman who witholds sex just became powerful. A man who just revoked the

credit card in a relationship where only the man works or the man is richer just became powerful. Notice how if one

can be removed, so can the other. In addition, one person can just leave the other. Again, it's a delicate balance

of power...

This is true. Absolutely agree with that. Good point.

[Darkman84]

btw c&f is not

equivalent to being an asshole.

True. That's basically what I meant by that. Being cocky and funny and

confident. Not mean and nasty to people.

[Gegogi]

"the reason that older

woman settle down with anybody is that their biological time clock is ticking. they have to settle for less or have

no kids. these are also the women that will cheat on you during the marriage."

I'm not sure what you

mean by "older" women. However, I don't think women in their mid-20s are "older" nor settling for anybody because

they've had it with badboys 'n dickheads and want a real man.

As for women that cheat, their reasons vary

considerably. Sure, some are unhappy, unsatified, angry, loney, etc. However, many women are completely happy with

their marriage but cheat anyway. Some are just super horny, get it every day at home and around town as much as

possible. Some women enjoy the excitment and risk of sneaking around. Monogamy isn't a universal value nor is it

hardwired into our brains. Some women--many women in my experience--have plenty of room in their heart and bed for

another man or two or three. I was happily married and cheated many times until I was finally caught one time too

many. Now I'm single. I'd be perfectly happy with 3 or 4 girlfriends (or wives) if I could get away with it. Again

it wasn't that I was unhappy with any one woman--I loved and cherished them all--I just liked getting more. Like

money, you can never have too much love. And, to me, nothing is more exciting than falling in

love.

Incidentally, I didn't realize that what's-his-name defines artists as one of the 4 classes of babe

magnets. Now I feel so used...

[TRock]

if that is what you believe, then

that is what you believe.

[Gegogi]

What is that remarked directed

to: why women cheat, 25 year old women are old in your estimation, or monogamy isn't a universal value nor

hardwired into brains? I've laid plenty of pipe among happily married women, women married to dickheads, nice guys

and pretty boys. Fire in their loins discern not if their lust object is funny, confident or cocky. They just like

getting off, variety and danger. Incidentally, many of these women don't want kids.

[DeMoKiLL]

If you get the "lets just be

friends" bit, don't try any funny stuff like I did, its not working and she wrote me a note today pretty pissed

off. ;-) Do not try this at home. Never ever, tell a girl you like her if you want to show it then show it in

physical contact or subtle things.

[bjf]

What "funny stuff" did you try, and

are you sure it wasn't just "being a dick"?

[Holmes]

The line is razor-thin betwixt

humor and dickery.

[Pancho1188]

If you get the

"lets just be friends" bit, don't try any funny stuff like I did, its not working and she wrote me a note today

pretty pissed off. ;-) Do not try this at home. Never ever, tell a girl you like her if you want to show it then

show it in physical contact or subtle things.

I'm going to hold back my "I told you so" comment

because---well, by saying that I essentially said, "I told you so"---I want to tell you that it doesn't work the

other way, either. Believe me, I know. I'm not sure if I wrote about it on the forum, but I got rejected without

even telling a girl I liked her or asking her out because of the way I acted around her. I tried subtletly (without

me even knowing it sometimes as I guess I was a little lonely at the time), I tried to have her be comfortable when

I entered her personal space or engaged in whatever type of physical contact, and I tried just seeing if something

would happen. I got rejected faster than you did and didn't even say a word.

A girl either likes you or

doesn't like you at any given time. If she likes you, you could do whatever you wanted and she would still like

you. You could say you liked her, you could get close and be subtle, you could do whatever you want. If she

doesn't like you, nothing is going to magically change that. The best thing you can do is let her know you're

interested and see if she feels the same way. If not, just be her friend (or not if that's your perogative) and

move on. If she changes her mind and becomes interested and you're not with someone else or whatever, then she'll

probably find a way to let you know because she'll know she missed her chance. If she doesn't change her

mind, you still have a friend and you also moved on.

Conventional wisdom says that to get a girl you grow some

balls, ask them out, and take it like a man if you get rejected. You may be rejected, but you'll definitely be

respected. Even DYD (I say this with limited knowledge) would have to agree with that...after all, life pays

whatever price you ask of it, right? If you don't ask, you'll never receive. If she's not interested, it's not

worth your time anymore. As for the "want what you can't have" belief, that only works when you move on and she

realized what she can't have anymore. Simply saying "you can't have me" (ignoring her, etc.) doesn't work.





The reason why you're talking about this is because saying you liked her made you vulnerable, you lost your

'power', and she 'crushed' you. You were looking for a way to get your 'power' back. At least...that's only

if you look at it like that. The problem is easily solved when you realize that there is no power struggle and that

you could just pick up and move on without losing anything but the 5 minutes you spent admitting your feelings.

When you take it like a man and move on, maybe she'll finally see what a good guy you are and change her mind.

It's no guarantee, but it's surely better than playing a few games and seeing what happens. At least you'll

still have your 'power'...which is the ability to control your own destiny and not let a girl control your every

waking thought or moment.


This posting has inspired me to do the same in my life. In fact, I would be a

hypocrite unless I took my own advice, right?---------------Wow, what a concept! As I finished that last sentence,

it actually happened...I sucked it up and stuck to my guns pretty well with the girl I'm currently having a

somewhat similar problem with. Not too shabby...who knew you could be a man and a decent human being at the same

time?

PR

[Snoopy]

Great post Pancho. I'm now

reviewing DYD for the 3rd time, the "power" thing brings up a good point. Nobody ever has "power", people just give

it to them.

[Gegogi]

Amen Pancho.

[TRock]

A girl either

likes you or doesn't like you at any given time. If she doesn't like you, nothing is going to magically change

that.

Simply saying "you can't have me" (ignoring her, etc.) doesn't work.

PR

Pancho i agree with

your whole post except those 2 points. if there's no attraction you can still create attraction. That's the whole

idea of cold approaching, it is not guaranteed tho b/c you'll still get shot down. you can display higher value

while cutting down her value with C&F or other seduction techniques if you do it right.

if you say it the right

way or acting like "you can't have me" will work if you know how to do it. that is if you get the opportunity to

run your game.


demo don't sweat the chick, move on and pull other girls. a hot babe is a hot babe is a hot

babe, they're everywhere. erase her from you memory and work on your next conquest. it's not the end result that

matters, it's that your technique is correct.

[DeMoKiLL]

Pancho i agree

with your whole post except those 2 points. if there's no attraction you can still create attraction. That's the

whole idea of cold approaching, it is not guaranteed tho b/c you'll still get shot down. you can display higher

value while cutting down her value with C&F or other seduction techniques if you do it right.

if you say it

the right way or acting like "you can't have me" will work if you know how to do it. that is if you get the

opportunity to run your game.


demo don't sweat the chick, move on and pull other girls. a hot babe is a

hot babe is a hot babe, they're everywhere. erase her from you memory and work on your next conquest. it's not the

end result that matters, it's that your technique is correct.

Well yea I would of moved on, but she's

practically everything i've ever wanted, and guess what, I can't have it! Isn't life just grand.

And, can

you explain what you mean by saying "you can't have me" the right way?

[Pherozen]

you can display higher

value while cutting down her value with C&F or other seduction techniques if you do it right.

Don't take

this offensively. These techniques are for people with no value. If you have value then it's displayed already,

you don't have to go out of your way to display it. If you want to be a man act like a man. Men don't cut down

other people's value to make their lowly value seem greater.

Demokill the reason you failed was because you

were so unnatural about it, techniques don't work, why because they are techniques. The way you made your posts

sound I imagine that you could see 10 miles away what "tricks" were up your sleeve. Like I'm going to get her to

fool herself into liking me. To make an odd analogy lets say a 200lbs 70 year old wrinkled old bag was into you

with no personality is into you, do you think that she could do anything in the world to nab you? Be Aloof? Make

fun of you? Uh no, I didn't think so. I'm not saying that you're a fat old lady but do you get my point? Imagine

someone told you this great technique for making PB & J sandwiches yet it didn't feel natural to you and your

sandwiches ended up looking like crap. Useless. You can tell girls that you like them and they'll still be eating

out of your palm if there's a natural connection. Stop trying to dupe your way into things and let things take

their course. And my last bit of advice, it's usually not good to decide that this is "THE ONE" unless you've

been dating for a while because your young lady "friend" here could potentially be a real pain in the ass in a

dating scenario. And realize that you only wanted her more because she didn't want you. Before you say oh so

that's how I can nab her. Imagine that someone that you didn't like was being aloof, do you like her now that

she's being aloof? Probably not. If there's a spark or something in the FIRST place (a spark, magic, maybe even

mones) then you're in and it's hard to mess it up from there.

LAST BIT OF ADVICE: Listen to Pancho and the

gay(?) guy.