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I am not ready to add NPA to decanted colognes just yet, but I would like to try it out without fumbling around with drops and dabs. To keep it simple I might just grab TE unscented, but I am still curious how I can turn NPA into a spray?
For some reason I doubt it's as simple as grabbing rubbing alcohol and a spray bottle. Any thoughts in this?
On the parfumery you can buy empty bottles. Best is if you take a cylindrical one, because you can better estimate the ratio between frangrance and NPA.Quote:
Originally Posted by Surreal
For example you want to make a 5:1-mix and the fragrance-bottle has a height of 6cm, you fill 1 cm NPA and 5 cm fragrance in the bottle, shake it and finish :thumbsup:
You should be able to do just that; grab some ethanol and a spray bottle, but unscented Edge is just that same thing: ie NPA diluted 5 to 1 with alcohol in a spray bottle. Even at that ratio, you have to spray sparingly. You might want to dilute it even more.
B
Thanks guys,
Ethanol works for me as I have a gallon of denatured alcohol in the shop and a empty bottle of LT.
Here are my calculations if anyone could glance over them and check my assumptions and calculations I am using drops because thats the measurement I am going to use to decant the NPA:
Bottle of LT: 7.4mL
Drops to fill a bottle : 320 drops (using denatured alcohol and not to the brim, but a air bubble below the threaded structure)
Sprays in a full bottle : 110 sprays
320 drops in 7.4mL = .0231mL per drop
1ml = 43 drops
110 sprays of 320 drops = 2.9 drops per spray
110 sprays of 7.4mL drops = .0672ml per spray
_________
NPA - 2.4mg total mones per 5mL
NPA - .48mg total mones per mL
NPA - .24mg = 240 mcg -none per mL
Assuming .0231mL per drop = 5.54mcg of -none per drop
________
Mix - 1:5 (one part NPA : five parts alcohol)
At 2.9 drops per spray, each spray will have .0112mL of NPA and .056mL alcohol or .483 drops NPA and 2.416 drops of alcohol
.483 drops of NPA multiplied by 5.54mcg -none per drop = 2.675mcg of -none per spray
________
Next I make the 2.675mcg of -none per spray relatable to me...
One drop AE = 3.33mcg of -none. (reference from terry0400-40 : http://pherolibrary.com/forum/showthread.php?t=20421)
For me three drops of AE get things smoking so that's 9.99mcg of -none which equals ~4 sprays of 1:5 NPA (or ~2 drops of NPA direct)... is that right?
I when I look around the web I see others base their calculation of .05mL per drop but when counting the drops to fill a known size bottle I found it took twice the amount.
You have calculated nearly correct! Only two little rounding-errors! 7.4 : 110 = 0.06727 rounded 0.0673 not 0.0672 and 0.483 * 5.54 = 2.6758 rounded 2.676 not 2.675. The rest is calculated correctly. Your math-teacher would be satisfied with you ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Surreal
But why so difficult?
110 sprays of 7.4 ml --> 0.06727 ml/spray.
Dilution rate 5:1 --> 0.06727 : (5+1) = 0.0112 ml NPA / spray.
NPA contains 1.2 mg None / 5 ml and so 240 mcg None / ml --> 240 mcg/ml * 0.0112 ml NPA / Spray = 2.688 mcg None / spray.:)
Lol, yeah I hope, I'm going to be taking calculus next year.Quote:
Originally Posted by stuttgart-man
Well the reason why I calculated the drops is because it's the unit of measurement I am going to use to make the mix. I am currently waiting for pipettes to come in the mail and I am unsure of the degree their mL measurements are broken down. Also, soon I will have 10 sprayer samples of various colognes and each bottle has only ~2- mL and I figure using drops will be more precise considering I am not exactly working with lab grade equipment. That and needed to know how much the sprayer puts out considering they are all not the same. Since my intention is to experiment properly the last thing I want is incorrect measurements.
Thanks for checking for me!
How about comparing relative spray volumes by weight? If you had a sensitive scale, you could spray directly on to the pan and note the wt change.
A valid suggestion. My scale (a shipping scale) is in increments of 10g so that's out. Once the spray volume is known of the bottle decanting by weight would be easier and quicker vs. counting by the drop/mL.
Ok, I remember when in head shops digital scales cost $80 to $120, well eBay has a half dozen brands for $8+ w/free shipping! The quality is low vs. industrial micro scales but hey if it works for $8 wow. Many of the scales up there are .01g accurate. 1ml = 1g (pure H2O)
Here's one for seven dollars, I am buying now if anyone want to know how well it works in a few weeks PM me.
http://cgi.ebay.com/0-01g-x-200g-DIG...ht_2863wt_1164
Just in case someone is following my above calculations I am making a revision based new data collected from using a different set of equipment.
Using a graduated pipette I found 1ml to be ~60 drops.
NPA - 2.4mg total mones per 5mL
NPA - .48mg total mones per mL
NPA - .24mg = 240 mcg -none per mL
240mcg / 60 drops = 4mcg of -none per drop. (8mcg total pheromones)
Then naturally take the time to calculate how many drops per spray or mL per spray with the atomizer you intended to use. IMO, just knowing a 1:5 mix is standard is not enough. But for the lazy it's fine not to calculate the amount of mL or drop per spray because there is not too much variation between pocket atomizers.
I feel like a total newb now.
I forgot to ask, if mixing NPA in straight ethanol will not there be a problem with possible lack of diffusion because there are no other molecules to attach too for carrying purposes? I would imagine even if I sprayed the NPA/ethanol mix then right after sprayed a cologne cover they still will not be mixed well enough.
But that also goes with people who just dab NPA directly to the skin then cover; reports come in of success, which invalidates my above assumption.
Any clarity would rock the socks on this for me.
In the NPA itself there are already other molecules; water and DPG I'd guess off hand.
Most people, including the makers of NPA say that it should be mixed and then sprayed. However, many people have success just putting a drop or two on their body and covering with cologne.Quote:
Originally Posted by Surreal
I find with the new NPA dropper box the drops come out to fast for this process. It almost dribbles hahha Dabbing is the only thing possible. Perhaps if you wish to dab Edge would be a better product.
:cheers:
HM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Surreal
Seems like you have a good plan but don't use denatured alcohol. It has an added scent that will wreak havoc on your mix. Go to a liquor store and get some Everclear for your mixes. Its the best thing short of perfumer's alcohol and its odorless for your purposes.
Diffusion is not a problem with most pheromone products. Alcohol based products diffuse very rapidly and the bigger challenge is to know when and if to re-apply. If you mix NPA with an alcohol based scent or straight alcohol it will not affect diffusion in the slightest in the early stages of application. After the dry down of the pheromones and cover scent the pheromones will stick as a part of your signature and diffuse less broadly.
Good luck!
That's interesting.Quote:
Seems like you have a good plan but don't use denatured alcohol. It has an added scent that will wreak havoc on your mix. Go to a liquor store and get some Everclear for your mixes. Its the best thing short of perfumer's alcohol and its odorless for your purposes.
I am unable to detect any extra scent after a few sprays of plain denatured alcohol evaporates. I tried it on my skin, cotton, and paper with not detectable difference.
Having a bottle of Everclear sitting around might be toooo tempting. (even though I REALLY dislike it as it is cheap and nasty) :rofl:
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Originally Posted by Kevinin
Hmmm... the denatured alcohol from the hardware stores definitely have a scent, purposefully added. I used it quite a bit in my shop. What exactly do you have?Quote:
Originally Posted by Surreal
Ahhh... the Everclear is indeed nasty stuff, unless you make some "Moscow Mule" with it. I won't tell you what that is lest I overly tempt you. :drunk: