have pheromones changed your view of human nature?

Has wearing pheromones changed anybody’s view of human nature?

When I first started using them I took a cynical view that people are a bunch of self-deluded hypocrites that don’t give a damn about character, intellect, talent or wit. (It didn’t help that I was recently divorced.) Now I’ve taken the slightly more positive view that people are basically sensual beings with a tendency to get caught up in (moralistic/egotistic/materialistic) head trips.
Imagine. All it takes is one little whiff of pheromones to take a woman’s mind from “Mr. Right” to “Mr. Right Now”. It makes me think that, however much we think we’re in control, Nature still Rules.

So you see... I’m not really seducing anybody, I’m simply liberating their nature.

Does that sound like a convenient rationalization, or am I really on to something?

Either way, I’m off to “test” a new chem kit mix. Good luck to whoever else is out there testing stuff, and I hope to read some interesting responses when I get back.

I think that\'s brilliant. Simply liberating their nature. Brilliant. The observation that there\'s a tendency to get caught up in head trips - yes - we forget that we\'re animals too. We\'re taught to denigrate the physical and that can get in the way of being fully sexual. It\'s good to have your nature liberated.

One thing I\'m noticing is that for guys it seems to be about scoring, getting the sex ... women are always always thinking about what\'s going to happen after - how\'s he gonna act the next day? Because after the fact is when the problems start, and I\'d rather do it myself than have to deal with bad aftermath, I don\'t care how good he smells.

Thanks for the encouragement Full Tilt.

I think any rational person should have concerns about the aftermath. But I can see how that would be a bigger concern for women. Women tend to view being lost in the moment as a romantic thing. Guys tend to view it as a loss of control.
Still... if you understand the guy’s motives for hooking up with you in the first place, you can pretty well guess how he’s going to act afterwards.

Also you have some control over the situation.
If you want them to forget about you, do your best to make them feel uncomfortable. (You can start by making them lay on the wet spot.) Little territorial things like, “Please don’t use that towel.” would probably work on sensitive guys like me. Messing with the ego — as in giving the impression that you weren’t quite satisfied — would probably work on alpha types.
If you want them to come back, leave something lingering in their imagination. A passionate kiss that breaks off just as things get hot is nice. But just parading around in sexy lingerie for a while, before getting dressed, seems to work pretty well on me.

In the final analysis, it’s always a gamble and you have to weigh the risks against the potential payoffs. Of course, if all you want is an orgasm, you could probably do a better job on your own. (And avoid the risks altogether.) But we always seem to crave something more. Don\'t we?

Randomly -- I view it is a loss of control, too, absolutely -- it\'s devastatingly romantic to give up control -- I\'m saying I\'m very very careful about who I give my control up to. My submission is the most precious thing I have to give. It\'s not going to some jerk if I can help it.All I have to do if I don\'t want to see him anymore is stop responding. Don\'t answer the phone (thank god for caller id) or the email, get up and walk away every time he comes toward me. Extinction works very effectively.I\'d hate to think I treated a guy rudely or made him feel ill at ease while he was in my presence - it would make me ashamed of myself, no matter how big a jerk he was. I\'d like to think they never forget me. :-)Unless a guy is really obvious, there\'s no way to tell his motives for hooking up with you. It\'s always a crap shoot.

y\'know ... by the time a session is over, I usually have to wash all the bedding, everything\'s wet, whether sweat or other secretions, mine or his - generally, we\'ve torn the place up and been everywhere we can think of. I can\'t remember there being a wet \"spot\" since back in the days when I was married and it was always at night before sleep and over with in 20 minutes. In any case, if a new guy is not condom compliant, he\'s not gettin\' any, am not going bareback with \"strange,\" so there\'s little wet spot to worry about. Hope you guys are wearing your trojans...

Im with aka on a certain level its just allowing people to liberate their sexual nature - there will always be those that try to control it (priests (child abuse) politicans (power and control) because by not having power structures in place to control people (and control of their sexual pratices is Number 1) society falls apart you need those at the top and those at the bottom - illusions are all part of that ways to implement that involve the media business structures etc. NLP can be useful those wanting to manipulate others on all levels. Most people are blind and strange. Yeah guys always wear trojans at the very least its youre responsibility to do so.
1 - Avoid STDs
2- Avoid unwanted kids that youll need to pay child support for later.

Hmm... I use condoms and there’s still a wet spot. And it usually is just a spot; so maybe my sex life isn’t that exciting.

Anyway, the more you develop your people reading skills, the less of a crap shoot it becomes. (Not to say that anything is ever certain.) People are driven by a) values, b) ego, and c) basic instinct. The more mature a person is, the more likely ego drives will override basic instinct. The more reflective a person is, the more likely values will override ego.
You can quickly figure out whether someone is reflective by observing them while they answer questions. (Do their eyes wander off? Do they hesitate? Does the tone of their voice change? Any sign that a little cerebral activity is taking place?)
Maturity IS hard to gauge. You can tell the real babies by disagreeing with some of their opinions. But the only true indicator is to see how they handle rejection; and that kind of defeats the purpose. I usually try to gather clues by listening to how they’ve handled other guys (This is something women often talk about without even being asked, but you can easily get guys onto their own soapbox.)

I wasn’t thinking of making guys feel unwelcome. I was thinking of acting more self-centered, in order to turn them off.
But since the issue came up... I do believe that sometimes you have to make people unwelcome. I’ve been on both sides of this coin: “Drop by any time.” (followed by nobody home and messages never returned) and “I don’t think we should see each other again.” The cold blooded approach makes me feel like a loser until the next girl smiles at me. The “nice” approach makes me feel stupid for a very long time.

P.S. Thanks for the confession, Full Tilt. I\'ve long suspected that women want to be fondly remembered by the guys they dump.

Both sexes have thier methods for moving on i guess hurting a guys ego is the quickest and most effective way of doing it. Ignore him until he gets the hint and then move on. Well i forget the women that dump me because mostly they arent that fond to remember in the first place it helps now that im looking good because when they see me again they get all friendly and the first thing i bring up is a)the latest best girlfriend ive ever had b) how they dumped me for who was it \"oh so and so\" and are they still with them [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/blush.gif[/img]h youre not they dumped you for being vain - oh im real sorry to hear that. Im happy. you dumped me because you wanted something more exciting/different oh well i got something better bye!

http://www.theentertainmentcompany.nl/divas/

Yeah it annoys me when a girl is nice to you when they dump you, not when they are genuinly sorry(are they ever?! [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/laugh.gif[/img] ), but when its obvious they dont want you to hate them and want you to remember them, FOR THEIR OWN PERSONAL GAIN! Takes the piss a bit, usually folled with \"Can we still be friends?\" \"Erm no, it would never work, \'cos i actually like my friends, and they do things for me, and i respect them for it. I could never respect you. Buh bye!\"

My surprise observation about humans from using pheromones is how automatic some of our complex behaviors are. The first DIHL was startling in that a whiff of \"fragrance\" could overcome the conscious intellect of an adult female.

I see better how the business of manipulation can be so profitable and effective. It\'s put me more on the defense whenit comes to mind-control.

Post deleted by FullTiltRedhead

Whitehall,
Good points.
Who gets the best treatment at a restaurant? Who gets the easiest questions at job interviews? Who gets the most favorable job evaluations? When I wear pheromones, it\'s me.
It seems odd that smell should have anything to do with it. But not really when you see how scent governs social interactions among less cerebral animals.

I have no problem with being friends, as long as there is something to be friends with. Often this gets asked by girls with no personality or a bad one. Nuf said.

And to think I\'ve been leading my life thinking that my intellect was responsible for what successes I\'ve seen. That means that some dumb-butt odors not under my willful control deserve more credit.

Maybe the old saying is needs to be updated - \"Better to be smelly than smart.\" Maybe intelligence is not all that a selective advantage in evolution. I\'m disappointed since my strong suit has always been my IQ. Wish I had smelled better instead.

I’ve never been stalked (that I know of).

Since wearing pheromones, there have been two women that wouldn’t take no for an answer.

One was a married woman that I used to work with. We had two dances at a Halloween party and she became convinced that we were destined for each other. (I was wearing pheromones, but the dancing never got sexual.) For some time she had me going with the “why can’t we be friends” line, but after a while I figured out she disrespected my values and was irritated by my personality. I tried seeing her without pheromones, but she was just as persistent and even more irritable. I tried the “we’ve got bad chemistry” argument, but she couldn’t accept it. I tried the “I need friends that can accept me as I am” argument, but she thought I was being self-centered. So then I gave up and said the most self-centered thing I could think of. “I don’t care if it’s right or wrong. I want to be happy and you always make me feel bad about myself. I don’t care if it’s your fault or my fault, I just don’t want to hang out with you anymore.”
I bet she still hates me, but what can I do about it?

Another was this girl that I gave a ride to. I saw her standing at the bus stop, drenched in rain, and felt sorry for her. She offered to buy me a drink as a thank you and I accepted. We got pretty loose. She was cute, funny, great body... and obviously affected by the mones. Maybe I shouldn’t have taken advantage of the situation but I did.
I was pretty drunk. She was pretty fast. So I ended up faking an orgasm. Then she opened up and told me all about her dreams and ambitions — which seemed shallow and materialistic. So I lost interest, but I wasn’t man enough to say so.
I exchanged numbers with no intention of calling her, and no idea of what to say if she called me. I answered the first message with a sorry excuse. Then I quit answering at all. Soon she started calling me on the job and I had to give her the “You’re a great person, but look at the age difference, we should have never had sex.” argument.
She also tried the “why can’t we be friends?” line, and I gave in once again.
Once again, she didn’t respect my values and was irritated by my personality. Once again, laying off the pheromones only made her more irritable. Once again I had to spell it out: “You just make me feel bad all the time.”

If there’s ever a next time, I will definitely try the, “I’m getting back with my ex line.”

Some girls keep calling after I don’t return their messages. But they just want somebody to party with. They don’t have any personal attachment to me.

I had one lover turn to a friend. But this was after many months of not seeing each other, meeting under new circumstances, and establishing a different raport. I’ve had a few friends turn to lovers and this has been the biggest downside to pheromones (which is not to say that I was an inocent bystander). The affairs were short, and when they died so did the friendship.

PS I may be argumentative, but there\'s no judgement implied in my opinions. I\'m all for accepting human nature as it is and building relationships on what\'s real. If you girls realy want me to get misty eyed everytime \"our\" song plays, I might have to work on that.

ehhh, gawd. Well. I do get misty eyed, I\'m an archetypal romantic, but have been around the block enough times to know it\'s my own little head trip and not to impose it.

I SO admire what you said about needing to be with people who accept you as you are. That\'s not self-centered, that\'s your right, absolutely valid to say so. This is a fatal error I think women make - the idea that men are something to be molded and changed to suit them. It\'s so inherently disrespectful. Mystifies me when I hear my girlfriends talking about I wish he would this and I hate it when he that and he drives me nuts when he the other and I LOVE him...I\'m like, what is it exactly that you love? It\'s all a projection of their own desires and has nothing to do with the reality of the situation. They\'re in love with their own fantasies.

My grandmother was in the hospital on a morphine drip and finally died just a few days ago, and the whole time, this guy I went to lunch with once kept calling - I wouldn\'t answer the phone while I was awake because I just didn\'t see any need to keep going around and around about it - so he\'d call in the middle of the night or in the early morning and catch me off guard and I\'d pick up the phone before checking the caller id, thinking it was a call about my grandmother, and it would be this guy and I\'d just hang up. I have had a real hard time with giving out my phone number lately and guys abusing it, which has just made me even more cautious about giving it out. Part of the harshness of my tone had to do with that specific thing I\'ve been dealing with lately.

I don\'t hold it against you at all that you jumped into it with that girl -- happens to us all. Wonder if you realize how romantic the set up was? You rescued her...

How does a guy fake an orgasm? How do you account for the complete lack of wet spot? I\'ve heard of the leg cramp but didn\'t know about the all-out fake.

Fun exchanging notes with you, thanks for writing - I appreciate your remark re no judgment.

The wet spot has a purpose!

After reading \"Sperm Wars\" I\'ll never look at a wet spot the same again.

Whitehall,
You can imagine how I felt on the occasions where every bit of intellect (I\'m a member of Mensa) was no use with regard to explaining a particular behavior--typically bad behavior on the part of a trusted female. Only the pheromonal explanation made sense. I spent several years figuring this out, but also did everything to increase my testosterone level (and naturally appealing masculine scent) at the same time. I acheived great success even without adding pheromones. But my view of human nature changed drastically after I learned that woman are just as animalistic as men when it comes to sexual behavior--the only difference is that their hormone cycle allows for more control - except for during the week that they\'re ovulating. Now, I\'m not reluctant to take advantage of pheromonal enhancement. So far as I\'m concerned, it merely allows the nature of the human female to be more readily manifest, more of the time.

Lol an honest opinion thanks jkohl. Using my intellect i figured out pheromonal behaviour so its a double advantage. The various aphrodisiac supplements ie horny goatweed and tribulus do a great job also. I like the allowing the nature to manifest itself more readily its a good explantation. It makes sense to use the enhancements as need be. Combining that with intellect one can make a huge difference to the world.

www.ebetonline.com.au

Rapid contractions of the Pubococcygeus muscle. (It\'s a tantric exercise for bigger orgasms). Only works with condoms.

What\'s the \"leg cramp\". \"Ouch. I think I hurt myself, we better stop.\"???

Yeah. Oh, god, I have a cramp in my leg, I\'m so sorry baby, I have to walk it off. Gives him a chance to get up off her and get some distance if he\'s just not into it and he knows he\'s not gonna come.

(I have guy friends who are major players and I pick their brains)

I\'m a little tired so may be slow, but ... were you talking to me re the rapid contractions? I don\'t understand. Is this like women\'s Kegels; if so, why would it only work with condoms?

Seems like we\'ve been in the same boat!

Women want control of sex to achieve their interests and men want the same control for the same reasons. Result - conflict. Given the evolutionist\'s ethical position that what wins is what\'s worthy, I\'m glad that my intellect has found this new tool - maybe \"weapon\" is the right word.

The odd thing is that few of us men purchase pheromone products with the explicit intent of making women pregnant! Emotionally, we men just don\'t make the connection between making love and making babies. Most of us would be aghast to find out that a woman we \"seduced\" using pheromones was pregnant by us.

I read somewhere that only 1 in 500 lovemaking sessions results in pregnancy, averaged over a lifetime.

I used to go to Mensa meetings but never met any sexy women at them so considered it a waste of time.

The ethical position goes out the window when you consider control of sex. Every party has a different interest and intellect loses in the end - except here of course where it becomes a strong point. I dont use pheromones to get women pregnant its more a lifestyle enhancer because sex is so few and far between anyway its used more for personal advancement and life learning. That thing on 1 in 500 lovemaking sessions resulting in pregnancy is a interesting fact although it seems to be correct. Maybe thats why women try \"many\" men to spread the risk of infertile males.

www.anitadoth.com

We mentioned the odds against pregnancy in The Scent of Eros, while attesting to the overwhelming importance of recreational sex (where humans are somewhat unique--even given the info on bonobos). Using SOE just increases the odds for recreational sex. In any case, it\'s best to ask about birth control before things progress to a who cares position. Control issues are all biologically based, with testosterone being the key. But the pathway to testosterone increases begins with exposure to pheromones. This may help to explain why knowledge of cause and affect/effect is helpful. If people don\'t know what they\'re responding to, they don\'t know why they\'re responding.

Only somewhat agree with you about the Mensa women; I too quit attending functions during the time I was married. Now that I\'m single (and somewhat geographically isolated) Mensa provides a source for adventures in human sexuality.

JVK,

Gotta love those Bonobos!
Talk about what must be a Pheromone Blitzkreig!

Oscar [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/wink.gif[/img]

Amen to the Bonobos!

They\'ve got it all worked out!

Lol bonobos i wish i had it all figured out.

www.pshollow.freeservers.com/custom.html

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We mentioned the odds against pregnancy in The Scent of Eros, while attesting to the overwhelming importance of recreational sex (where humans are somewhat unique--even given the info on bonobos).
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Yes, we humans had a good thing going with recreational sex, that is until the bonobos horned in on our action. Poof! --there went a perfectly good monopoly. So who\'s the traitor who clued the bonobos in??? Um, I have to sign off now, because I can hear the Mother Ship looking for me... Phasers on stun. Good luck, Kirk out.

Most likely, we take our cues from the bonobos; repress our behaviors and end up with less satisfaction as a result. Not that I think we should behave like chimps (though some people do), it\'s just that most of the time I
think humans take themselves too seriously. For example, the idea that we don\'t produce or respond to pheromones hung around for many years. Seriously, how could we be so animalistic? Human nature is merely mammalian nature extended to subhuman primates (like the bonobos) and ultimately to men and women.

On that note some of you may wish to read the article at the URL below:
http://asia.cnn.com/2002/TECH/science/08/22/lion.manes.reut/

A male lion\'s darker mane and darker skin in human males are both correlated with higher testosterone levels.
Yet the media interpretation of this study fails to even mention the most likely correlate for the differences in
sexual behavior. It\'s the androgenic (testosterone-dependent) pheromones! The pheromones are the only
social environmental influence that can possibly condition a visual response related to the preference for a
darker mane, or darker skin in males. But it still seems as if media reps (and the researchers involved in
this study) have no idea that pheromones might be involved. Frustrating! Tell your friends, it\'s not the sight
of the lion\'s darker mane; it\'s his testosterone-related scent production that drives the female\'s choice. Sooner
or later, non-biologically based researchers are likely to catch on.