The pretty boys vs down to earth types

What is everyones thoughts on this which are more successful in regards to their approaches all things being equal including pheromone levels and applications.

Which do the women want more.

Post your thoughts here.

>>>>>>

I unfortunately have the experience of the females going for the pretty boys initially. Only AFTER they realize what a shallow, amoral butt-munch they got stuck with do they then come to the realization that MAYBE they mis-set their priorities.

No, this does not apply to ALL of the better-than-average looking guys, but certainly to enough of them to cause a belief that even the good guys are @$$holes.

Here\'s a thought -- *I* know it gets tiring picking up the pieces of the shattered psyches of the females who got abused.

Well the one advantage the nice guys have is that they can OD on the pretty boys and those without pheromone knowledge and even bring them down a couple of notches lol well i like to sabotage them sometimes makes for interesting times, but alas no one brings me down which with NLP i bring myself down when i get past a certain point which is of course to my advantage cause i need and like being down to earth its less emotional work anyway.

Hey jambat are you still with us. lol [img]images/icons/laugh.gif[/img]

Interesting subject. I think my experiences are more aligned with Randy\'s. Hell, that\'s more than half the reason why I\'m here. Unfortunately, I\'ve been a fly on the wall enough times to see the women actively seek the attention of the \"pretty boy\" type. We understand that it\'s usually the guy that has to do all the approaching, but the pretty boy get\'s women talking to him, regardless of shy or outgoing demeanor.

If you\'re unlucky enough to have seen this phenomenon as much as I have, you\'d almost want to think you deserve it the same way, especially if you hold your self in high regards and think you\'re better-than-average looking.

I definitely won\'t be cleaning up someone else\'s mess, nor do I want to just be settled on as a friend...

My opinion is that all things being equal regarding Phero\'s, Pretty boy wins just about every time, tied or followed closely by \"tall, dark + handsome\", with down to earth being last.

I\'m with GG-
My standards have changed; I\'ve killed the \"camp counselor.\"
\"I can\'t help you with that, babe; YOU have to work out the results of your choices.\"

In the main, women have two sexual needs from men - good genes and provision. They seldom rationally know this, but this is the way they act. Read some sociobiology to get the full picture - it\'s all science.

At a certain base level, they want to find the best, highest quality genetic material they can get so that their eggs/children have the greatest advantages. They want the prettiest babies so they go for the prettiest boys. That explains groupies - if every other woman is hot for a guy, then that guy\'s baby will have women hot for him. They\'ll be a genetic success. Hence the attraction to pretty boys.

At a somewhat higher level, they realize that they need a good provider. Having and raising a baby is very difficult by oneself, your odds of success are better if you\'ve a loyal male mate to hang around and bring home the bacon and beat off the bears. Hence the attraction to good guys.

So... do you want to sell yourself as a fly-by-night stud or as a potential husband?

Some women (10% in one genetic survey) get it both ways. They have a husband to provide for them and the kids but cheat on the husband and get knocked up by another man, presumably with perceived better genes.

So... if you\'re out clubbing and looking for a one night stand you\'re poising as a genetic provider (even with birth control). If you want a girlfriend, then the good provider model may what you want to project. Happiest is where both roles come together.

Happy hunting.

In any event, the philosophy just has to be, \"If you can\'t beat \'em, join \'em.\" Er, if that\'s what one wants (and I suspect most do!)

Whitehall nailed it on the head. There\'s a new field known as Evolutionary Psychology that I\'ve been using research from to guide my dating strategy. Anything I can change about myself that makes me more attractive (based on what studies have found) I\'ve been doing.

My experience -- the pretty boys always win at first. I\'m by no means a pretty boy, but there\'s a lot of things you can do to be \"prettier,\" and all of them fit in with what evolutionary psychology studies suggest. To sum up, the most attractive things to women for long-term mates are resources and commitment. For short term mates it\'s resources and genes.

So, pretty boys display
- Good genes by being attractive.
You can\'t change your looks, but you can change your body by working out. I went from 185 at my divorce four years ago to 155 today by working out, my bodyfat is now 10-11%.
In the studies, the single least attractive body trait was having a belly that hangs over your waist. Just say no to the next donut!
The studies also ranked (in order) clear skin, a white smile, and a straight smile as most attractive. All things that you can change.

Pretty boys also display resources via clothing. One study dressed two guys -- one cute, one ugly -- in the same three sets of clothes: a burger king uniform, a shirt and tie, and a nice suit with a rolex watch. Short bios were attached to the pictures (burger king = trainee waiter, short - teacher, suit = doctor.) The ugly guy in the suit was ranked more attractive than the cute guy in anything but the suit. Think about that for a while. I still don\'t believe it myself, but every woman I\'ve ever asked about this looks at me and goes \"well, yeah, duh! Of course the guy in the suit is more attractive!\"

Women are completely different than guys. (BTW, they did the same test on men, using women. Result? The hot chick in the burger king outfit would win against the less-attractive woman, no mater what she wore.)

Nice clothing = resources = women like this.

I could go on and on. I suggest the book \"Evolution of Desire\" by David Buss. Also do a search on the web for \"evolutionary psychology.\" You\'ll be amazed.

The key is repeated here often. After the initial attraction from being a pretty boy (or like a pretty boy) the follow-up is what makes the difference. Being a decent guy here (think of being a good husband) is what keeps them interested after the initial pretty-boy (or pheromone) reaction.

A women\'s perspective on this, since I happen to be the only damn woman on this board.

I realize a lot of women DO go for the pretty boy look, but not more than the tall dark and handsome category. In some cases, tall and dark outranks pretty boy. However, not all women are like that. I for one have never been attracted to the pretty boy kind in my whole life, though i do fall for the dark and handsome occasionally. I don\'t know why, but to me pretty boys seem to elegant, too shallow, and 99% of the time too conceited for my tastes.

Another reason i don\'t like pretty guys is that men aren\'t supposed to be pretty! A lot of females are turned on by masculinity, which means looking like a manly man (No, i don\'t mean pumped up with muscles).

Most of the females would agree about this as far as taste in men goes, but we\'re leaving out one factor. CLOTHES. not that women are superficial (well okay, I realize a lot are, but I\'m not one of them) but clothes play an important role for some unknown reason. i really don\'t care about clothes men wear, except in one way....SUITS! I honestly don\'t know why, but even the geekiest guy in suit and a tie can turn my knees to water. I really don\'t know what it is about it, but it\'s so damn sexy that i want to go and rub myself all over him. Consider it the masculine equivalent of women\'s lingerie.

But when men aren\'t in suits?? I don\'t care, even jeans look sexy to me, but some of the more picky women go for elegantly casual, or the pricey kind of look, which in most cases are the pretty boys. So there\'s the answer to why pretty boys get picked more often.

In general, most women don\'t care about \'looks\' in the traditional sense of the word, meaning handsome. What they look for is the air of the man, how he dresses and carries himself...how comfortable he is within his own body.

I\'m not really particular about men, but i like the kind who you can cuddle up on the couch with (most of the time these are the nice kind of guys)

Please note though, what i\'ve said above applies only if you\'re talking about normal females, hot or not. If you\'re talking about one-night stands and those kinds of females (in other words, the superficial kind), only one rule applies.....HOW MUCH IS IN YOUR WALLET??

...regarding the previous message...

See what I mean?!?

By the way, I forget, shoes are really important. I don\'t quite get the whole women and shoes thing -- but I swear, I\'ve gotten more reaction from the women I know switching from sneakers to rockports than I have from pheromones.

Seriously.

It\'s taken me something like 20 years to figure this all out. I wish someone had explained this to my in high school. The light didn\'t go on until about year ago -- and I\'m 35 now. All that missed opportunity!

So -- all the late teen-age guys here, and early 20\'s too - grab a GQ, Esquire, Maxim, and study. FYI, women love to shop, and like shopping with men MORE. I just did a shopping spree two weeks ago with a woman I dated briefly over a year ago who\'s on the verge of being engaged -- all I had to do to get her to shop with me and make suggestions was mention that I wasn\'t shopping with anyone else and wasn\'t sure about my taste, and she was on it in a minute. I\'m pretty sure this will work on teenage/early 20s girls who are just \"friendly\" as well. Actually, they\'re probably more into it, since it\'s entertainment and lets them exercise a sense of style and spend other people\'s money -- yours -- on you, of course! Just don\'t forget to offer to pay for lunch or dinner in return for the \"favor.\"

So, Scientist, are you gonna wire me the $$ to buy a brand new Aston Martin and a week\'s worth of new suits from Men\'s Warehouse? [img]images/icons/tongue.gif[/img] Immitating James Bond might be the thing to do, but that\'s unrealistic. I think my best \"pretty boy\" technique would then be to arrange a ton of Ben Franklins into a peacock tail and pin \'em on my arse. [only because I can neither be tall or dark]

Ok, so I am still a tad bitter because I wasted a ton of years on that \"Be Yourself\" mantra... [img]images/icons/crazy.gif[/img] But I think Scientist is right; gotta be dynamic and adapt to what\'s being sought after.

I actually have the shopping idea already planned out; though it\'s not just for more success in dating, but because I know I\'ll have to step up my wardrove for work. I mean, they\'re gonna take me on and practically double my salary, so there is no excuse to be looking like a disheveled college student when I want to be [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]. This particular lady friend of mine was more than willing to help, and frequently ask, \"When are we going shopping? Where are we shopping?\" [img]images/icons/laugh.gif[/img] Her good deeds won\'t go unpunished.. not at all.

[ October 18, 2001: Message edited by: GuinessGuru ]

Someone mentioned Od\'ing someone to make the field a little more fair. Im curious here. I was going to purchase Attraction but the new content turns me off now I guess Im getting TE. Just say I want some pretty boy that a girl knows varly well to scare her off. Just curious and as evil as I am how many sprays would that take?!? Who says that aint fair?!? [img]images/icons/mad.gif[/img]

LoL maybe one of these pheromone companies can make a chemical that is a turnoff or a cheaper EXTREMELY HEAVY CONSTENTRATED pheromone to mess up da pretty boys for pranks or revenge? [img]images/icons/cool.gif[/img]

LOL, touche, ShinTen, touche...

Guiness --

The peacock tail of cash thing doesn\'t work very well. Neither does the Aston Martin. In fact, being rich by itself doesn\'t work well, at all. You want a hear a sad story (sort of, you\'ll probably hate me for my \"misfortune\") -- here\'s mine:

A couple years ago I was a millionaire, for real. (I\'m still well off, just not that well off!) I (then and now) drive a porsche, own a couple houses and now an airplane. That year, I asked three women out, and all turned me down. Since then, I\'ve had three of six women I\'ve asked agree to date me. One (a year ago, and the same one I shopped with a couple weeks ago) turned into the short-term fling, but she wouldn\'t commit to more. The other I dated eight times over four months, and I ended things when I went to kiss her for the first time (after 8 dates! She\'d always arrange things so there was no opportunity to move in) and she literally LEAPED away from me, almost tripping in the process. Funny thing was, she always suggested we eat at really expensive places if I let her choose.

The woman I am dating now I had dated before about three years ago -- she abruptly broke things off after three months of dating, the last date of which was our first kiss, which lead to more, but not sex. So I started dating her again a couple months ago, and she started freaking out when things were just getting interesting (I will say that Pheros have helped immensely in making things move faster, though.) So I found out last weekend she was visiting an ex-boyfriend instead of seeing me. Argh. I made my displeasure known, and I doubt she\'ll last much longer. I\'m giving it a last-ditch effort, hoping she\'ll commit. I\'m a sucker.

Anyway, the moral of this long story is that even these three pathetic dating episodes are an infinite improvement for me -- that\'s as many women as I had dated in the previous fifteen year (during half of which I was dating/married to a woman.) When I had some long discussions with friends and women from my past, they turned up that while I have a great personality, the \"being myself\" thing only works after they\'re interested. That I needed to upgrade my wardrobe from jeans and black T-shirts to something nicer, and that I needed to be WAY more agressive in trying/asking for what I wanted from women and stop being the \"nice guy\" that I am. One woman I used to date actually said to try _anything_ I wanted to do with a woman, and simply stop when they say no. That they\'re expecting you to do things they may not like. Very confusing to me.

So I\'ve done a lot of what\'s discussed here, and things do get better each time. Funny, women aren\'t psychic and don\'t know my bank account balance by looking at me, but when I wear clothing that\'s expensive (heck, just clothing that isn\'t jeans and a T-shirt) they are much more receptive. I\'ve really started to get into it and am looking forward to it finally getting cooler so I can wear my latest set of \"killer\" clothes.

When I pointed out to a friend that I felt I wasn\'t being myself \"all dressed up,\" she delivered a great line to me -- \"this is the small part of yourself that comes out when you\'re getting dates.\" It\'s something I remember when I feel awkward about it. So expand the \"Be Yourself\" mantra to include yourself wearing a nice set of threads when you\'re looking for dates.

So... the be yourself thing is OK, and it\'s what you\'re selling. But you got to get them interested first -- be it with clothing or pheros (or both! [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img] )

I\'ve gotta agree here. You\'ll catch more fish if you put bait on a hook than if you just throw a hook into the water. Wearin pheros and puttin on fancy duds is deffinitly usin bait. And actually if you think about it , usin\' pheros aint bein yoursrlf. I\'ve been a professional musician for as long as I can remember. And when I first started doin\' it I used it to my advantage. It got me laid alot. But the guy I am on stage is not who I really am. I am way way confident hiding behind my guitar. To me what I do is the ultimate phero so to speak. I really never had to do anything. Just let em talk dirty to me and let em do what they say they\'re gonna do. Bouncin off the walls, dancin on tables and gettin money shoved down your pants is a whole lot of fun but it was just part of the show. Who I really am is who I am when I am alone or with a good friend. I dig warm fuzzies, kids, baby animals, hikin\', the depths of God and nature. Anyway I got tired of that scene and those kinda chicks and cut my hair but I still rock. I use pheros and fancy duds cause i\'m lookin for something different off the stage. You gotta be who you are but like scientist says, you gotta have some bait to get thier attention. And you gotta know what you want or you\'ll end up with anything or nothing.
Just thought i\'d throw in my 2 cents.
Later.

Nice to know there\'s a musician in the forum! I excactly understand what ur trying to stay \'coz like u, i\'m a musician too. only, i\'m a desperate musician.lol.
i have a band when i was a teenager and we play compositions and covers. some girls would just appear in front of me asking my age, where i go to school and all those stuff. unfortunately, i\'m very shy back then and as a real person, i\'m not too outspoken but on stage, my confidence just rises like lava flowing. so i wasn\'t really able to take advantage of those times.

right now i\'m still a desperate musician. i don\'t have a band anymore and if only i can get back to the stage i would probably be having the time of my life... now that i have the pheros.

Hah, the musician suspense is killing me. I definitely picked the wrong instrument [img]images/icons/tongue.gif[/img] Chicks flock to people behind guitars, not those behind Euphoniums. Can\'t say I was professional by any means, but I still garnered an \"outstanding solo\" award in an out of state band competition among 6 highschools. However, once college is over, and once the paychecks are rolling in, I\'m probably gonna band up with some friends and start a \'project\'. I can sing decently, and I know a great bassist and a great guitarist already. Our combined talents would make one hell of a cover! Anyway, moving back to the topic...

Shit, Scientist, I\'d like to say it\'s purely coincidental that I joked about you buying me stuff [img]images/icons/shocked.gif[/img] I realize that just having wealth doesn\'t do jack, but in my case, some IS necessary to get things going, or to sustain things in motion. My analogy about the peacock was to imply that I\'d fluff the tail feathers (Benjamins) and strut around, knowing it would work, with suits and cars, of course.. [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img]

Anyway, I could almost see my self as \"misfortunate\" but I\'m trying to stomp that now. Soon, I know I\'ll be financially well off (a few orders of magnitude less that you [img]images/icons/laugh.gif[/img]) and I\'m trying to countersteer my dating life, so it doesn\'t go into the ditch. I don\'t want any more pathetic episodes than the two I\'ve already had.. much less do I want a 15 year dry spell. Believe me, I stood more to learn from your \"misfortune\" than things to be hateful for. However, be thankful you don\'t have to be the 23 y/o virgin. I hope I can prevent others from sharing my fate.

Ok thats it its time for the MIB yes that right the MIB.
(Men in black) who cover up aliens.
Alright add MIB look, pheromones, good shoes, um the right hair do. And a balanced attitude.
Hey that would be great and the chicks would be even better lol, hey i get great responses from boots (like doc martins etc) they go for the army type as well.
Youve leaving out uniforms in this one women always go for a guy in a uniform. Some food for thought everyone.

GuinessGuru --

Well, I was nearly a 23-year old virgin. I got \"lucky\" once when I was 18, and it didn\'t happen again until 23. (BTW, \"lucky\" means that the woman broadcasted I was the worst lay of her life VERY publicly, including emailing all our mutual friends, posting it on a public BBS system (pre-internet days) discussing it on multi-party chat lines, and generally making sure she maximized the ego destruction. I called her up one day seven years later, and she said she had been waiting the past seven years for that call to apologize. Today she has a web page devoted to hating men.)

So another bit of advice -- choose women wisely, especially the ones you sleep with. Now, if I could only manage to take my own advice! [img]images/icons/shocked.gif[/img]

Man, if I could only go back, how different things would be. Now I just try to live as much as I can each day to make up for mistakes and the time I\'ve lost.

Ah yes its always sweat revenge on past failures when you go back with pheros and gte revenge or at least a new attraction and can knock it down in revenge.
IF one wants to do it that way but sometimes they deserve it so why not.
But that is the nice guy vs pretty boy vs mr dark and handsome vs the guy in a clown suit lol. [img]images/icons/laugh.gif[/img]