Dhea

In case DHEA has made its way

into your curiosity vein, I think I'm going to take the plunge, and this seems to be the best spot for good info

... http://www.raysahelian.com/dhea.html I found other spots that claimed there were no benefits. Who

knows what's really going on with all the info floating around on the net?

I do like Doc's recommendation of

5mcg per day/or when needed, but it's said to be hard to find the 5mcg tablets. Idesign's 25 mcg 3 to f4 times a

week sounds like the next best thing.

Anywho, just sharing. :wave:

I've heard they're trying to

outlaw DHEA. If so, it's a damn shame. We should have the ability to make our own decisions about supplements.

Ephedra was outlawed because a few individuals who did not heed precautions died usually due to having other health

conditions in addition to not heeding warnings. Yet ephedra has an incredible safety record, much better than the

pills prescribed by doctors. I wonder how much the pharmaceutical companies push for this type of

legislation.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MOBLEYC57

I do like

Doc's recommendation of 5mcg per day/or when needed, but it's said to be hard to find the 5mcg tablets. Idesign's

25 mcg 3 to f4 times a week sounds like the next best thing.

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Any pharmacy should have pill splitters.

They consist of a razor blade in a little holder and are made to split tablets. If you get the common 25 mg DHEA

tablets, splitting them into 4 will give you about 5mg. You do lose a little due to crumbling when you split a

tablet.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tester123

I've heard they're trying to outlaw DHEA...

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http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=s110-762



http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=h110-1249

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gone

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=s110-762



http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=h110-1249

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Looks like it is dead. It may be

brought up again but in almost a year nothing has happened.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by belgareth

Looks

like it is dead. It may be brought up again but in almost a year nothing has happened.

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These

"anti-supplement" bills come up all the time, and never pass. I don't know if its the lobby or common sense which

kills them.

It would definitely be bad to regulate natural supplements. I need them to counteract my unhealthy

lifestyle. :)

There are several supplements that I "cycle". DHEA is one of them. 3-4 days on, 3-4 days off,

when I remember to take them at all...

Other than a daily vitamin I

rarely take supplements. Have tried a few here and there, the only one I felt was worthwhile is a product called

restore. It has an estrogen antagonist and a testosterone booster, both natural. The issue I have with DHEA is that

it boosts your testosterone which can convert to estrogen, especially in us older guys. I already have enough

trouble, and always have, with a stomach that wants to grow. Increased estrogen would make matters worse. Only a lot

of exercise keeps that in check as it is.

I notice a huge benefit from

natural supplements, and I've found a vitamin supplement that focuses on natural sources. Its expensive, but I

notice a difference.

Didn't know that about DHEA (estrogen). I don't have a stomach problem, but I don't want

to grow D-cups either. :eek: Have to look into this...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by idesign

Didn't

know that about DHEA (estrogen). I don't have a stomach problem, but I don't want to grow D-cups

either. :eek: Have to look into this...

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That's pretty much the risk with most test-boosting

supplements. Still ... your body will tell you, in this case, I think, when you are taking too much or it's not for

you ... i.e. sagging chest, or as Bel said, more belly fat. Just like the mones ... what does it for one may not do

it for another.:run:

Mobley. You may want to read up

on havoc,epidrol or epistane. Really good at raising test and lowering estrogen. These are strong supplements

(legal) but proper precautions must be taken, Check out anabolicminds.com for farther info. Take care.

I have been taking DHEA and Tribulus

together for years. Seems to work, but the best solution is to work out hard, feel the burn, keep the abs hard and

all that stuff. I read once that testosterone is converted to estrogen *in abdominal fat*! If that is true, than

it's a double whammy. Estrogen causes fat and fat causes estrogen. Whoa.

I have been sort of a supplement

junkie for years, and I'm in the process of evaluating my approach. It got to the point where I was taking a

handful of pills with every meal. I had some food allergy test last summer and avoiding the foods on that list has

helped me more than all the pills I was taking.

B

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MOBLEYC57

That's

pretty much the risk with most test-boosting supplements. Still ... your body will tell you, in this case, I think,

when you are taking too much or it's not for you ... i.e. sagging chest, or as Bel said, more belly fat. Just like

the mones ... what does it for one may not do it for another.

---

Thanks Mobe. I really do not see any

negative from DHEA, and I do see some benefit. I cycle it because the effects are not established, and I hesitate

to go overboard. I noticed that on your favorite source they sell 100 mg DHEA. I take 25, and doubt that I'll

increase that.

Just for the record, I get a "hardness and longevity" effect from what I think is from DHEA and

another natural supplements. Of course I take other supplements for general health. The list is pretty long. I

know that the cumulative effect works.

Bruce - I know what you mean. I eat the most healthful foods when I shop

at the grocery store and cook at home. And then I eat some fast food when I'm in a hurry. I've no doubt that a

purely good diet would help in every way. So far as I know I don't have food allergies, but when I became aware of

diet I did notice a positive effect.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by belgareth

Other

than a daily vitamin I rarely take supplements. Have tried a few here and there, the only one I felt was worthwhile

is a product called restore. It has an estrogen antagonist and a testosterone booster, both natural. The issue I

have with DHEA is that it boosts your testosterone which can convert to estrogen, especially in us older guys. I

already have enough trouble, and always have, with a stomach that wants to grow. Increased estrogen would make

matters worse. Only a lot of exercise keeps that in check as it is.

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I found a great natural product that

keeps estrogen in check (literally helps metabolize already existing estrogen). It's changed names over the years,

but used to be called "indolplex." I think it might be called "ripped mass" now, or some such bodybuilding name.

With these terms I am just speaking of the best brand (best quality and concentration for the best price) from my

research.

I searched for years for a natural product that would do this, and finally found this one.



The chemical is indole-3-carbinol, also known as "DIM" in complex form.

It's derived from broccoli. Only

problem is it's not cheap.

Even enhances natural pheromones, in my experience.

Doesn't prevent E from

forming, only helps metabolize any excess. So it doesn't mess with your hormones much, unlike most other

approaches. But even one dose can help E-related symptoms (retaining water, breast tissue, etc, etc).

Interesting, Doc. Thanks, I'll

give it a look.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DrSmellThis

I found a

great natural product that keeps estrogen in check (literally helps metabolize already existing estrogen). It's

changed names over the years, but used to be called "indolplex." I think it might be called "ripped mass" now, or

some such bodybuilding name. With these terms I am just speaking of the best brand (best quality and concentration

for the best price) from my research.

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Would this be the product , Dr

?
http://tinyurl.com/3ykzc9
or
http://tinyurl.com/3x5x2l

No. different product. Just

google my hints to find it.

There's a good article about

it here. I don't know how complete the information is but it is

interesting.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indole-3-carbinol

Thanks for helping. :)

Your expertise appreciated Doc.

Does this look safe?

http://www.medwing.com/product/763948153367.html#

Thanks!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MOBLEYC57

Your

expertise appreciated Doc. Does this look safe?

http://www.medwing.com/product/763948153367.html#



Thanks!

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That is one brand of the stuff. I'm not familiar specifically with it. It looks like the good

stuff at first glance, and I'm pretty sure it would work.. You have to look closely to figure bang for the buck,

because DIM is figured differently from the raw indole-3 carbinol, or something like that. I'm forgetting. DIM or

indolplex is the superior form, I think. A little reading would clarify it more precisely, but that's the idea..



If you look up "ripped mass" that is the version I liked for quality and value, back when I understood it. The

company is very high quality, and I think that was the original superior DIM version..

OK, here's a link to the

latest incarnation of the original product, now called "pure rip".



http://www.enzy.com/go/EnzymaticTher...=05337&sc=True

Enzymatic Therapy is a great supplement company = medical grade, so to speak.

this

is the one I used with great results. Can't go wrong. Plus, this is the directlink to the company.

60 tabs of

120mg indolplex for 49.00. Those are the numbers to look at while comparing. Yours compares favorably, a couple

dollars cheaper, but that difference may be the quality and quantity of calcium, which helps you utilize the

stuff.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DrSmellThis

OK,

here's a link to the latest incarnation of the original product, now called "pure rip".



http://www.enzy.com/go/EnzymaticTher...=05337&sc=True

Enzymatic Therapy is a great supplement company = medical grade, so to speak.

this

is the one I used with great results. Can't go wrong. Plus, this is the directlink to the company.

60 tabs of

120mg indolplex for 49.00. Those are the numbers to look at while comparing. Yours compares favorably, a couple

dollars cheaper, but that difference may be the quality and quantity of calcium, which helps you utilize the

stuff.

---

Wish I had waited ... went ahead and ordered ... got it, read that there was SOY in it. Now I'm

afraid to take it. :sad:

It seems that this product contains soy as well, so maybe ...

When you get a

moment, Doc, would love to hear your thoughts on man and soy.

My son said his sex drive had died. I asked what

has he been doing differently, he said he was drinking soy milk. A week before this had happened, I read that soy

kills a man's sex drive due to an increase in estrogen. I told him to stop drinking soy milk ... two weeks later,

his drive was back to normal. :think:

Always wanting to learn more about us humans, our bodies, our thoughts

and way of doing/seeing things. :drunk:

I believe soy is over-used.

However...

These don't contain whole soy, but rather soy derived phosphatidyl choline and lecithin, both of

which are good for you. Lecithin can even help the product work better as it clears fatty deposits from your liver,

and helps it process estrogens when they are fat based.

Whole soy contains phytoestrogens, which are much

weaker, plant estrogens, like "analog estrogens". As long as you have enough T to counter it, a little bit of soy

won't hurt you. Phytoestrogens can even, in some cases, block mammalian estrogen from getting into a receptor.



What worries me more are industrial clorine spin offs in our environment; which mimic estrogens. If you are

already overloaded with these, phytoestrogens can probably trigger you negatively in some cases, though we can

imagine cases where they could be helpful.

There is a difference between a little soy here and there, and

drinking soy milk on a regular basis, which I cannot do. I don't think soy beans are just bad in every quantity or

use. I even have a minor soy allergy or sensitivity, but can still do soy in smaller quantities, like in tamari.



That said, I can't tell you what your body needs.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DrSmellThis

I

believe soy is over-used. However...

These don't contain whole soy, but rather soy derived phosphatidyl choline

and lecithin, both of which are good for you. Lecithin can even help the product work better as it clears fatty

deposits from your liver, and helps it process estrogens when they are fat based.

Whole soy contains

phytoestrogens, which are much weaker, plant estrogens, like "analog estrogens". As long as you have enough T to

counter it, a little bit of soy won't hurt you. Phytoestrogens can even, in some cases, block mammalian estrogen

from getting into a receptor.

What worries me more are industrial clorine spin offs in our environment; which

mimic estrogens. If you are already overloaded with these, phytoestrogens can probably trigger you negatively in

some cases, though we can imagine cases where they could be helpful.

There is a difference between a little soy

here and there, and drinking soy milk on a regular basis, which I cannot do. I don't think soy beans are just bad

in every quantity or use. I even have a minor soy allergy or sensitivity, but can still do soy in smaller

quantities, like in tamari.

That said, I can't tell you what your body needs.

---

I knew you'd give me

new light on the matter. \o/ :thumbsup: \o/

Was about to trash my product, now I'll give it a bottle-run and

see if I notice anything different.

Thanks, Doc! :thumbsup:

You're welcome! :)

Dr. SmellThis,

What is

your opinion of "Hot Plants for Him" product from this firm?

I'm a little worried that it might have too

much yohimbe for regular use.

Honestly, have never heard of

the product. I share your concerns about minimizing (though not necessarily eliminating) yohimbe. It's a powerful

drug, so to speak.

Not to be lazy, but do you have the link?

For penis/sexual health I either use

traditional chinese remedies (e.g., containing lizard and deer antler, ginseng, and other ingredients) or the stuff

from action-love. So far I've not felt the need for anything else.

Here's the

link:

[url]http://www.enzymatictherapy.com/Products/Product-Categories/Product-Details.aspx?p=07366&cid=1725[

/url]

As to DHEA, I've taken to using 10 or 25 mg a couple of hours prior to intimacy. It seems to kick up

my enthusiasm a bit. It's not as powerful as methyltestosterone but there is some change.

It does make my

nipples itch or tingle a day or two afterwards, which I take as not a good sign.

Whitehall, I notice a quick

effect from DHEA (25mg) too, maybe not so fast as your description, with no side effects. I take it daily, and

cycle (30 on/30 off) a product called "Potency Essentials", which contains a healthy dose of yohimbe and ginseng.

Never have a problem with wood-on-demand, maybe even too much at times.

Ingredients are first rate and

reputable.

Maca is good for adrenals and strength, and rhodiola is a slower acting version of an adaptogen like

ginseng, but not really immediately stimulating like ginseng. Maca seemed to enhance my vitality, but affects people

differently.

Research results on sexuality by itself for rhodiola were mixed, though other health benefits are

well supported; but that can be a good thing if you are using it in a targeted way within a mix, as you don't want

all your herbs to be stimulating, or do the same thing.

In short, with rhodiola, Maca, and ginseng you are kind

of taking three different angles to the adoptogen approach.

With Yohimbe, you have to judge for yourself whether

you want that amount. I personally have relegated it to a purely supporting, and minor role.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Whitehall

Here's the link:



http://www.enzymatictherapy.com/Prod...07366&cid=1725



As to DHEA, I've taken to using 10 or 25 mg a couple of hours prior to intimacy. It seems to kick up my

enthusiasm a bit. It's not as powerful as methyltestosterone but there is some change.

It does make my nipples

itch or tingle a day or two afterwards, which I take as not a good sign.

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