Not sure, but I think his schtick involves communicating directlyQuote:
Originally Posted by Friendly1
with the limbic brain, not bypassing it.
Printable View
Not sure, but I think his schtick involves communicating directlyQuote:
Originally Posted by Friendly1
with the limbic brain, not bypassing it.
It looks like Phersurf and I
are mixing up sources, although I was only addressing his comments about bypassing the limbic brain. I have just now
done a quick search on Google for references to stuff like that and apparently they are made on amateur seduction
forums and in pseudo-scientific web articles.
If I said that the limbic brain
can be bypassed, I misspoke. I meant to say that through the correct body language, vocal tonalities, attitudes, and
the actual words that a man says will bypass a women's neocortex and talk directly to her limbic brain.
Don't believe me or and "pseudo-scientific" articles, please, please read (Or don't, I don't care. But your views
are NOT based in science) any of the following books. Much of David D's material comes from these (as well as
modelling men that are naturally good with women).
The Red Queen: Sex and the Evolution of Human
Nature
The Mating Mind : How Sexual Choice Shaped the Evolution of Human Nature
Sperm Wars: The
Science of Sex
The Evolution of Desire: Strategies of Human Mating
Why We Love : The Nature and
Chemistry of Romantic Love
This is a short description of the limbic brain,
Common to all
mammals, it developed about 60 million years ago, after the dinosaurs perished.
It's involved in bonding
needs, including emotions linked to attachment.
It acts as the brain's emotion factory, creating the
chemical messages that connect information into memory.
Retention of information can be significantly
increased when it's presented in an emotionally charged context.
If it is not possible to bypass a woman's
logical brain (neocortex) and stimulate her limbic brain how do you explain the endless stories of women that are
otherwise intelligent, educated, with good jobs taking up with "bad boys", guys that mistreat them (even
physically), cheat on them, etc. It's because these guys, through their attitude and actions, more closely fit the
ancient architype of what a high status alpha male is supposed to be. And no amount of her tying to convince herself
logically that he is bad for her, will break that deep attraction she has for him.
One last thing, David D
does not teach gimics or tricks to seduce women (like Ross Jeffries). Most of his video program is all about the
inner game. Becomming a better man that will eminate the kind of energy and attitude that naturally attracts
women.
If you have any kind of open mind, you'd get his Advanced DVD series and watch it. Then send it back,
it won't cost you a dime and you may actually learn something.
Hype and B.S. All these discussions youQuote:
Originally Posted by phersurf
read about "bypassing" parts of the brain are nonsense, and nothing more.
You don't bypass anything. You can
(and in your case I'll accept that you have) learn/aquire skills which help you connect with someone of the
opposite sex quickly and easily.
But anyone who talks about bypassing parts of the brain without brain surgery
isn't qualified to be discussing it.
So, my advice to you is, take what works for you, use it, but don't
expose yourself to ridicule or being undercut by repeating all this psychobabble mishmash. You don't need to do
that.
Most people DON'T understand how the human system works and they get through life just fine anyway.
I'll accept that.
But I
still think you should read a couple of those books I listed:)
I take it back, I don't accept
your statement about BS and hype. Maybe a better way of saying it would be "communicate directly with her limbic
brain" as opposed to "bypass her logical brain"
What do you think happens when you're out somewhere and in
your peripheral vision you see a hot woman and your head almost instantly snaps to look at her? That's your limbic
brain detecting her before your necortex has a chance to say, "she's hot!". You're not logically thinking to
yourself, "she has the right hip to waist ratio, symetrical face, firm breasts, clear skin, I think I'll be
attracted to her". Your limbic brain instinctually knows what an attractive woman looks like.
There are many
studies that show when a man sees images of beautiful women, there is activity in his limbic brain before there is
activity in his neocortex.
Just like our limbic brains know what an attractive woman looks like, a woman's
know's what an attractive man looks (and more importantly to women, acts).
When women take part of the same
studies and are shown images of physically attractive men, there is activity in her limbic brain, only it's much
less than in a man's. Unless they're first told first that the men in the images are in some high status position
in life, then the limbic brain activity is equal to the men's. With men it makes no difference what they are told
about the women before they are shown the images.
When women say they want a man that is confident, funny,
etc do you think they think to themselves, "he's funny, confident, I think I'll be attracted to him". No, their
limbic brain knows that those are attractive attributes.
Another life of its own! Some women
do not reach decisions logically. It's actually been quantified - they are more natural at deciding based on
feeling (and intuition). Some of these techniques just maximize the appeal to this type of decision and minimize the
other. By showing through actions that you are a confident and desirable man and not a needy wuss - you trigger this
type of decision. Open your mouth and you trigger the logical side - since it thinks in words - step by
step.
You are trying to make her reach a conclusion about you without letting her think about you in words -
it's not bypassing. These two systems work in both men and women - 60% of women would rather use their leaps of
feeling to make a decision and pheromones and any of these techniques appeal to that.
I'm no Brain Surgeon.
but I am somewhat of a Personality Psychologist. PUt that in your pipe and flush it.
This discussion really has nothing to doQuote:
Originally Posted by phersurf
with body language.
This is nonsense.Quote:
What do you think happens when you're out somewhere and in your peripheral vision
you see a hot woman and your head almost instantly snaps to look at her? That's your limbic brain detecting her
before your necortex has a chance to say, "she's hot!".
There is no such thing as a
"limbic brain". The limbic system is one of four or five sections of that area of the brain called the neocortex.
So, if you COULD bypass the neocortex, you would also be bypassing the limbic system.
You really don't need
to drag this out.
I am not aQuote:
Originally Posted by Chemist
psychologist or psychiatrist, but I DID study under a physiological psychologist, and I can only imagine what he
would have to say about all this limbic brain stuff.
don't we have a psych
major/somebody with expertise on the human brain on this forum to settle this?
http://members.aol.com/nonverbal3/limbic.htm
"RESEARCH REPORTS: 1. The limbic system "plays a
key role in the evolutionary survival and eventual success of hominids" (Eccles 1989:97). 2. Regarding nonverbal
behavior, the limbic system's a. amygdalar division promotes feeding, food-search, angry, and defensive behaviors
related to obtaining food; b. septal division promotes sexual pleasure, genital swelling, grooming, courtship, and
maternal behavior; and c. thalamocingulate division promotes play, vocalization (e.g., the separation cry), and
maternal behavior (MacLean 1993). 3. "While the cortex contains our model of reality and analyzes what exists
outside ourselves, it is the limbic brain that determines the salience of that information" (Cytowic 1993:156). 4.
The cerebral cortex "has more inputs from the limbic system than the limbic system has coming from the cortex"
(Cytowic 1993:161). 5. Many emotional systems, in addition to the limbic system, may exist in the brain (LeDoux
1996:103)."
http://www.thebrain.mcgill.ca/flash/..._05_cr_her.htm
The limbic brain emerged in the first mammals. It can record memories of behaviours that produced agreeable
and disagreeable experiences, so it is responsible for what are called emotions in human beings. The main structures
of the limbic brain are the hippocampus, the amygdala, and the hypothalamus. The limbic brain is the seat of the
value judgments that we make, often unconsciously, that exert such a strong influence on our
behaviour.
[url]http://www.glenninstitute.org/glenn/news_reviews_director_bookshelf_details.asp?id=5[/url
]
"Publisher: Vintage Books
Year Published: 2001
Reviewer: Deborah Merritt
Affiliation: Glenn
Institute Staff
What’s love got to do with civic engagement? Quite a bit, it turns out. Thomas Lewis, Fari
Amini, and Richard Lannon—all psychiatrists—explain the latest discoveries of brain research in this engaging book
for laymen. Along the way, they illuminate what makes us distinctly human and why we crave community.
Our
human brain encompasses three distinct brains: the reptilian brain, the neocortex, and the limbic brain. The
reptilian brain, which we share with our distant relatives the crocodiles and snakes, regulates heartbeat,
digestion, and other basic life functions. The reptilian brain can also generate instinctive behaviors like mating
and territorial defense. But the reptilian brain supports neither emotion nor cognition.
The neocortex houses
speaking, writing, planning, reasoning, awareness, and will—the functions we most associate with being human.
Indeed, humans boast more neocortex than any other animal; we are justly proud of our thinking skills.
But
Lewis, Amini, and Lannon focus their attention on the mysterious limbic brain, an organ we share with other mammals.
The limbic brain is the seat of emotion, attachment, and play. Mammals, the authors point out “bear their young
live; they nurse, defend, and rear them while they are immature. Mammals, in other words, take care of their own.”
These mammalian characteristics distinguish us as humans as much as our cognitive abilities do. A human, like other
mammals, “will risk and sometimes lose its life to protect a child or mate from attack. A garter snake or a
salamander watches the death of its kin with an unblinking eye.”
The limbic brain doesn’t govern only the
caring of parents, children, and mates; it is the seat of all our social urges—and those are powerful forces. Humans
the world over show identical facial expressions. A smile signals friendliness and joy in Papua New Guinea as well
as New York. These universal expressions, tied to the limbic brain, allow us to communicate with other humans
instantaneously and without conscious thought. Eye contact between two strangers transmits sympathy, hostility,
lust, or other emotions. The limbic brain establishes these positive or negative ties before the neocortex
articulates them.
Humans, moreover, seek social bonds. When in the company of family members, lovers, and
friends, our limbic brains resonate with theirs. This communication stabilizes individuals, improving both emotional
well being and health. For this reason, humans with partners—or even with other mammalian companions like a dog or
cat—outlive humans who are alone.
Lewis, Amini, and Lannon focus their attention on the limbic brain’s
meaning for family relationships and mature love. They also discuss the ways in which therapy can—and
cannot—reprogram brains for healthier relationships. Their insights, however, are also significant for those
concerned with civic relationships.
No one should take anyQuote:
don't we have a psych
major/somebody with expertise on the human brain on this forum to settle this?
of our words for it. Just read a couple of these and make up your own mind!
These are all written using the
newest evidence based on more than enough verifiable studies from scientists from all over the world.
Red Queen: Sex and the Evolution of Human Nature by Matt Ridley
The Evolution of Desire: Strategies of Human
Mating by David M. Buss
The Mating Mind : How Sexual Choice Shaped the Evolution of Human Nature by GEOFFREY
MILLER
Anatomy of Love: A Natural History of Mating, Marriage, and Why We Stray by HELEN FISHER
Sperm
Wars: The Science of Sex by Robin Baker
The Evolution of Desire: Strategies of Human Mating by David M.
Buss
The Alchemy of Love and Lust by Theresa L. Crenshaw
Damn people!
It's all a
bunch of metaphors! Stop it.
The right body language triggers an "emotional" response in her (pheromones make
it a little easier).
Let's start a new thread and call it the Biopsychology of Pheromone Usage in
Seduction: For Dorks Only.
I'm there!
Well, the sad thing is that someone revived discussionQuote:
Originally Posted by Chemist
in this thread to help introduce people to the principles of reading body language and it was hijacked into a
pseudo-science argument.
However, if Phersurf and others who talk about bypassing the limbic brain actually do
start reading up on this stuff (and quoting the names of books ain't reading up on anything), then I suppose some
good will come of it.
I do have a request for the moderators, though. I think it would be more useful to split
off the limbic system discussion to some sort of physiology of attraction thread. I think people will get something
out of the topic if we can separate it from the body language discussion.
i was reading an article about
mystery and i ran into this:
http://www.elle.com
/article.asp?article_id=5820§ion_id=36&page_num ber=1&magind=5790
A HARDWIRED HABIT
While
Mystery refuses to talk about the psychological underpinnings of his Method, several experts I consult testify to
its soundness. Desmond Morris, the British zoologist and sexuality expert, admits that the Method is a shrewd
compression of the phases of love. “One of the great mistakes men make is not playing all the stages of courtship,”
he says. “It has to be done stage by stage if it's going to work.”
Cornell associate professor of human
development Cynthia Hazan thinks the Method works on a deeper level than even Mystery knows. First of all, she says,
“you knock [the woman] off balance” with the neg, so throughout the next phases “her judgment is impaired. She
becomes focused on getting his attention and approval and getting back into the group.” From the point of view of
evolutionary psychology, she adds, “it's really anxiety-provoking, and humans have a built-in aspect where when
we're anxious we want to get closer to other people.”
The act of negging an attractive woman can even tamper
with her brain chemistry, says Helen Fisher, the author of Why We Love: The Nature and Chemistry of Romantic
Love. “When you fall in love with somebody, what's going on in the brain is an elevated activity of dopamine,”
the main arousal chemical, and “the system that motivates you to win a reward,” she explains. “A woman who's a 9 or
a 10 doesn't have to do any work to get a man, so the system usually isn't triggered and she doesn't feel
romantic love. But when someone spurns her, that system will kick in and she'll feel attraction.”
We can't be
blamed for our innate trigger systems, can we? But to be fooled by the crocodile tears of male “vulnerability”? Even
here we're conditioned to respond, Hazan says. “Vulnerability draws us to people—it's clearly a hardwired
characteristic. We have this spontaneous desire to nurture them, to alleviate their distress.
And when the woman
discovers she's been conned? Once people learn the truth, says Fisher, it often doesn't matter: “The thing is,
once you've hooked somebody in, they'll be willing to ignore almost anything.”
That's right Friendly, just
keep calling it psuedo-science. Just blow off several books written by scientists with tons of up to date verifiable
studies quoted with your statement "and quoting the names of books ain't reading up on anything". Don't open your
mind to the possibility that these books prove what I've been saying (poorly, I admit).
AND I NEVER SAID
ANYTHING ABOUT BYPASSING THE LIMBIC BRAIN (if you don't believe me, reread my posts)! I SAID THAT IT'S POSSIBLE TO
BYPASS THE LOGICAL BRAIN (which I admit maybe wasn't the best way to say it)! Having a little reading comprehension
issue, huh? I guess you also missed when I corrected myself by agreeing with you that your not really bypassing the
rational brain but talking directly to the limbic system?
Everyone here talks about the DIHL effect of
mones, you guys haven't seen anything until you use some of David D's "techniques" (they're not really
techniques) on an extremely attractive woman! I've seen looks like you can't believe just by acting normal around
beautiful women and not suplicating.
Phersurf, there is no
physiological thing called a "logical brain", either, but I'll accept that as a metaphor for the system you use.
In the meantime, this discussion has nothing to do with body language, and though you obviously feel it is not
important, many other people seem to be interested in learning more about it so they can reach their own conclusions
without either of us giving them their opinions.
Will you agree to leave well enough alone if I say no more about
limbic anything, pseudo-anything, etc?
When I talk about the logical,
limbic and reptilian brain it refers to various physical parts of the brain that have logical functions. Most
scientists use these same terms.
If you'd read any of the books I listed, I think you might be
enlightened.
When I brought this thread
up from the graves, I was hoping it would spark more conversation on body language (after all that is the title of
this thread). Please focus more on the original topic as debating on why seduction works is not important to this
thread. I do however appreciate and respect your opinions on the topic that you are discussing but just want this
hijacked thread to return to it's original roots.
We could always start another bodyQuote:
Originally Posted by Marlboro_man
language discussion, although there is no guarante it won't be hijacked, either.
Body language is intrinsically
important to human behavior.
Someone who has a sense of humor!
Make them laugh! They're body language will show you that you're in!
body language is essential because no amount ofQuote:
Originally Posted by Friendly1
game will help you if you subcommunicate that you are a wussy. for some people being c&f and knowing other seduction
material self corrects their body language but a person with bad inner game needs to know body language.
but
outside of seduction i like to know body language just to see what's going on in the world.
Phersurf,
Since you chose
to not read my PM, I'll bring it up here. Debate and disagreement are fine. However, keep it civil! There is no
excuse to be insulting.
Friendly,
I was going to stop the off topic discussion until you participated in it.
It's your thread and you decided to carry on the discussion into other areas so I left it there.
I don't see anybody being
insulting - but then again we all have different senses of humor. However, I agree this forum is going way off
original topic.
Let me state my opinion and try to keep it on topic.
Body language is helpful. No
bones about it. However, most of the books I have read do make me read too much into what is going on and I have
found other things more helpful and advancing my goals - and this is what I beleive people are referring to as the
"inner game". Once I got my inner game focused, the body langauge kind of followed naturally.
People facing
each other completely - or a girl turning towards you and locking eye contact just prior to conversation - while I
am staring right into her eyes. It kind of follows - but whose to say the body language came first - I can't - but
I can sure as hell recognize it when its happening - her body language sort of mirrors mine - but not because I've
forced it - but because she is laughing at the conversation - and often times its poking fun at her.
Perhaps
we should start a thread about the "inner game".
personally, I found that to be the MOST INVALUABLE piece of
the puzzle - or rather - the last piece and everything fell into place.
The difference between what I am now
and what I was a year ago is distinctly different. Girls are actually competing for my time whereas before my phone
was silent. Body Language, pheromones, the inner game - they are all vital components.
We should definately
start a new topic since some of the mods are rightfully getting peeved due to our tangents. I don't see any of
these personal comments as nasty, but then again, I don't take myself so seriously.
Next person who wants to
go on about something besides body language in this forum, start a new topic, and I will gladly join in. I have a
lot to say. Apprently sometimes too much. :-D
I went ahead and start that
new thread and it's simply named body language part 2.
Please join in and say as much as you want, it will be welcomed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chemist
Your opinions andQuote:
Originally Posted by Friendly1
knowledge in this subject are greatly welcomed.
Bel that means if theQuote:
Originally Posted by belgareth
new thread gets off topic I can ask you to do something about it?
I wasn't intending to be
insulting. I just thought that some might be totally shocked at the latest studies about human mating and evolution
and the books I mentioned have much of that info. For example, 10-20% of all people on the planet have a different
biological father than they think is their biological father. That's because women marry men that they put in their
"provider" catagory, but mate with men they put in their "lover" catagory. These catagories are mapped in her limbic
system (many scientists refer to this logical grouping of brain structures as the "limbic brain").
And I
never said that body language is not important. I just said that if you wait for a woman to show you some positive
signs before you approach, you're drastically decreasing the number of women that you may have a chance with.
Please refer back to all my posts starting on page 3 and you will see that until I was challanged, I was on
topic.
I got no PMs! But don't send me
one if its not necessary!
Yes, if I miss it, call myQuote:
Originally Posted by Marlboro_man
attention to it before it gets out of hand. Oscar and I try to catch these but don't always manage to get every one
of them. Remember that there is a notify mod button that will send us an e-mail too.