Relationship: No phero use = loss of attraction???

Hello!

I´m discovering pheromones for about 9 months now and I´ve gotten
very convincing and strong hits during the last 6 months. I use AE/m/w,
NPA/m, TE, SoE, NPA, RM. Mainly I use AE and NPA, TE.

Now, I came across someting really thought provoking...

Until now it was a kind of game for me: I applied my pheros, went out,
got DIHL´s, made women flirty and chatty and did get some hot kisses.
Everything was pure fun and there was no seriousness involved.

I´m wearing pheromones everyday. And while wearing this new biological
signature (my ALTER EGO in the truest sense of the word) I got to know
my new girlfriend. I know her for 4 weeks now and we like each other very
much - we both really enjoy it when are together.

(Especially this weekend) my girlfiend made me lots of compliments, like:

- \"Oh my god you smell that nice and manly, this makes me so horny!\"
- \"I always get wet and hot when I´m close to you! I can´t believe that...\"
- \"I don´t know why, but you seem to have something special, that makes me wild...\"
- \"You look so manly! I just have to look at you and I get sexually arroused...\"

Ahem... last sunday we did it 3 times within 6 hours. And it seemed that she didn´t
want to stop even after that (at least for me) exhausting act - absolutely insatiable...

We had a SHOWER after that. A few minutes later she was horny again and we landed
on the couch again. We cuddled around for a while and we wanted to do it again, but
she seemingly had problems getting wet enough...

Then she said:

- \"Oh, I don´t know: I was so horny the last hours and since we came out from the shower
my desire diminished that much - I don´t understand it! You make me feel so different
now...\"

It was clear to me that now I didn´t had any pheros on me. I lost my \"second skin\" in the
shower. Did I loose my whole attraction? Did she really just like my \"ALTER EGO\"???

Maybe that a woman will react like that after having a lot of sex even without pheros,
but I think there wouldn´t be such a big breakdown in my attraction and her mood and
feelings for me...

What do you think?

Is it a mask (the \"phero-mask\") that I have to wear forever (as long I want to keep her
attracted)?

If there is devloping a self inflicted constrained like \"I must use my pheros before I meet her,
because otherwise perhaps she won´t like me any longer\" it would be bad...

I want her to love ME not my applied pheromones...

If a relationship is build upon something artificial - isn´t it very likely that it may collapse someday?

I would be glad if you tell me about your opinion! What would YOU do in that case???


Thank you...

I\'ve been seeing the exact results that you have been getting, when I wear pheromones girls are mysteriously attracted to me and if I come the next day without them it\'s like I don\'t even exist [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img].

Tomcat, as you know, a relationship isn\'t built over a physical attraction only. Of course it is an important part of it, but there are other aspects as important as that... unless you just want a gfriend to get laid, which I think it\'s not your case...

Remember that when you are using mones, your mone vibe is A LOT higher than the vibe of everyone else (not wearing mones, of course), may be hundreds of times higher... So, it\'s normal that you get those kind of reactions from your gfriend more often when you are wearing pheromones.

I know this problem. I would imagine the remedy to it is to work on getting built and try to naturally increase your phero output as well. This is what your synthetic mones are projecting you as anyway, if not better.

- Krish

I like this post a lot because it contradicts the experience of many including me and because it provides strong evidence against my position against DrST and JVK.

\"Alter ego\" means your other person. In this case \'mones really made you into another person, which is really kind of scary. You point out one of the problems. It\'s hard to have a meaningful relationship with another person if your very being is a deception. Despite our plastic society, we all want to be loved for who we are, not for what we buy. But I am sure there are many who would be willing to be loved for what their artificial \'mones make them into, if the alternative was not to be loved at all.

This really demonstrates the great degree of variability across persons. With animals, you can get them to mate with a piece of cardboard, if you exaggerate the key characteristics of attraction. With some people \'mones are hugely influential, with others they do nothing.

More research is needed.

Just to put my two cents in, sometimes I wear Pheros around my girlfriend, but during the week I don\'t wear it at the job. She comes over to the apartment when I\'m not wearing any, she is still affectionate. But she gets more Horny when I\'m wearing them. Personality plays a big role in attracting women. Pheros just gets them more hot for you, at least that\'s been my experience.

Cat - Don\'t sweat the small stuff! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img] No one...let me repeat that...no one...should water that thought. I\'m sure she didn\'t mean - it\'s over. Just meant - break time! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img] Trust me when I say, \"There\'s no way you\'re gonna wanna do it 3 times a day for the rest of your life.\" When you want some...put it on. When you think that she wants/needs some...put it on. If you want her close to you...put it on. Helloooooo! Mobley to Tomcat! Come in please! Take a deep breath, hold it for a count of ten, let it out sloooooooooowly. T\'will be okay. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img] You can\'t keep/make anyone stay with you my friend...they\'ll have to decide that they WANT TO. Should they not...there\'s nothing you can do about tit. Mones or no mones. Remember...mones are a tool, not a rule. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

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Just to put my two cents in, sometimes I wear Pheros around my girlfriend, but during the week I don\'t wear it at the job. She comes over to the apartment when I\'m not wearing any, she is still affectionate. But she gets more Horny when I\'m wearing them. Personality plays a big role in attracting women. Pheros just gets them more hot for you, at least that\'s been my experience.

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

Exactly! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

@tomcat :

Try to see it this way : She is very probably :
-wearing a bra/push push-up bra (so that her tits don\'t hang [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] ) and to make her appear more sexual

-using make-up , lip gloss/stick , eyeliners bla bla yaddayada to make her APPEAR more attractive.

-getting her hair/nails/brows done - all to increase attraction !

Its all about perception man.

WOmen do tons of things to make themselves nicer/more attractive than they would be naturally - SO ,

*screaming in a mad voice*

SO WHY THE F.U.C.K is it a problem if u use pheros to enhance your qualities either. I call it quits !

Of course she isn\'t attracted JUST to your pheros. If you were an ugly/stupid lamer she wouldn\'t like u in the first place even with the BEST pheros on. YOu aren\'t a lamea$$ goddammit , You\'re da man without pheros - and you are even more \"da man\" with pheros !

Afterall , u gave it to her 3 times in a row , she liked it (something SHE WILL remember for a long time) , I guess she was simply exhausted , or had a mood swing (women have these from time to time [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] )
Absolutely nothing u need to worry about ! I say : She likes u for u AND for the sexual vibes she gets from the pheros !


different story :
Well lets ASSUME for a second , u were initially right , saying she is JUST/ONLY attracted to your ALTER EGO (the phero charged one)
-WHO F.U.K.I.N.G cares !?!? You still get to bang a hot chic ,and spend lots of quality/fun time with her (even if that means that u need to splash on pheros , every now and then)

Afterall : YOU MADE THAT CHOICE ! YOU decided to enhance your sexual side by using pheromones, so chances are SHE was MOST attracted by the sexual image you projected on her. (Perception)

Do u want a chic to love U , JUST for U !
K, Great , no problem , throw away your pheros , do a high teq laser surgery , that will remove all your apocrine glands , and thus stop your natural phero outputs forever, stop wearing nice clothes , stop gettin your hair done , hit the librarys ...blablabla... doesn\'t make sense , does it ?

And then finally , think of all the ugly guys with extremly nice girlfriends ! (There are plenty of these combinations at any local mall) Theory is , that some of these have naturally very high pheormone outputs , so they attract women naturally. Lol ! YOu think they would ever complain lol , that their hot babes don\'t love them for who they are = ugly f.u.c.k.s with huge phero outputs ??? NOPE SIR !

All you do by using pheormones is putting yourself on the same phero-wise attraction level as other \"naturally advantaged\" people , like beautiful men (JVK said , beatiful men = good genetics = good smelling = high phero output) , successfull men in powerfull positions , more power = higher testo output...well u get the point - why not put yourself on the same level ? Its only FAIR !

DOn\'t ever worry bout a damn thing man , life\'s too short for that , enjoy the great moments - they are rare !


Hrhr something rhymed there [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Another thing, if she is pretty good looking (and reference to the ugly guy thing) that some women especially early 20s are still experimenting and they become tree swingers (have 1 boyfriend and hang around until they find something more exciting and that makes them horny and off they swing) now guys in their early 20s dont want to put the effort into maintaining a high quality woman - once they get her they want to stop the effort (it takes quite a bit to keep her attention) and you would think women would want a steady relationship. Well if you dont keep them horny and happy they start getting that tree swinging feeling. This is especially true for ugly men, now the way to keep her is to get her pregnant (women now have conceception) its all biological. When im single and you notice that going on they notice you with pheros and then they dont when you aint wearing them. The way to increase her non - phero attraction, its quite simple give her a convincing strong natural pheros sig. Which means work out and get rid of that fat (45% of americans are classified as obese) women are less statisfied (anything ring familiar) they get turned on by an attractive body so get some muscles (advice to all the lazy saps out there who expect pheros to do everything - they do a lot but you need to back it up). Ok im ranting but hope this helps, others will add to it.

\"now the way to keep her is to get her pregnant \"

Rofl [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] True but not very helpfull [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Best advice on this earth to keep a women (basically make her your submissive little slave ) is :

*drums*

*drums*

*more drums*


BE VERY GOOD IN BED ! Be a sensational Lover ! Make sure u DO her SO incredibly good that she won\'t forget. Every guy who comes after u WILL eventually be compared to YOU. Since YOu are the best thing there is when it comes to love making , she will not want to leave ! Incase she THINKS there is something better , lol , ok let her go and realize HOW wrong she is - She will come back , crawling on her knees , to u in no time ! Taadaa f.u.c.k buddy for life.

For example :

I\'ll be leaving for one week on tuesday. Buisness related. My girl will probably party alot with her (girl) friends.
So to make sure she doesn\'t even THINK about getting into the undesired swinging mode (that watcher correctly described) I did something special to her while she stayed at my crib over the last weekend (friday - sunday)
First we passionately made nasty love [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] Changing positions often and enjoying each other to the maximum ! (It was good sex , she told me that I was best lover ever before - however I wanted to make a MORE lasting impression [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] )
After both of us climaxed , we rested for a few minutes , then I just told her to lay back close her eyes and relax. She got excited and totally got into it. What I did was :
Skillfully teasing/caressing/abusing/stroking/ her clit with my fingers while kissing her all over her face / lips / breasts / neck - totally concentrating on her breathing/leg trembling/positive reactions with only ONE INTENTION , giving her as many orgasms as possible.
So after like 5 minutes she was totally in orgasm mode (the way I like her best [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] )
Heavy moaning , heavy breathing , legs and pussy trembeling like major earthquakes. I gave her orgasm after orgasm , this continued for more than an hour ( I lost my count after 30 orgasms) untill she totally collapsed because of exhaustion ! Even after I stopped the satisfaction , she was lying there trembeling , shaking with a massive smile all over her face , looking at me with eyes full of love and repeating to herself : \"Oh my god this felt so f.ucking good, this felt so f.ucking good\"


Next morning , she couldn\'t stop talking about this hour of pleasure. She told me , no lover before me ever made her orgasm so often. (lol most failed to make her go yaddayadda even once) She also told me , that she never managed to orgasm so incredibly often even when she masturbated herself , I know her body better , than she does !!!!!!!!

Mission \"lasting impression\" successfully completed !


Now do u think she WOULD EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER and lemme say it again EVER cheat on me and thus risk loosing me and my attention, satisfaction.... NO F.uckin WAY [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Basically I\'m not afraid of being cheated on , I broke it down to her very early in our relationship , that if I get the slightest hint of her fooling behind my back , I\'ll be GONE INSTANTLY ! So she is fully aware and knows how valuable I am. She is VERY lucky to be with me, and last weekend I eternally set a reminder [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]


Well , good ol power games [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

To sum it up : DO HER RIGHT and she will be yours forever !

TBird, that is one of the best posts I have ever read....now just to figure out how to do this effectively, and I\'ll be joining the same club.

So far (just turned 20), over the past year mainly, I\'ve fooled around with a total of 4 girls and had sex with 1. When I go in to it, I am going in to it the first time to make sure SHE is happy. I work on her for at least 20 minutes before I worry about anything else, but I still don\'t even know if I\'m doing it right. I am still learning to read the certain movements/expressions/etc. to determine what she\'s really liking and what she wants...you wanna lend any advise or places to look for advise on these points? I know I\'m going to be getting mine no matter what, but I want to make sure she\'s satisified before I even get close to climaxing, so that when it\'s all said and done, she came before I did (and even if I do it\'s not a big deal...if she got off that\'s plenty for me.) and that she\'ll remember that when she\'s talking to her friends about my performance :P

-Jon

Ask HER.
Ask her to show her how she likes to be touched.
Every woman\'s a little different.

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
@tomcat :

Try to see it this way : She is very probably :
-wearing a bra/push push-up bra (so that her tits don\'t hang [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] ) and to make her appear more sexual

-using make-up , lip gloss/stick , eyeliners bla bla yaddayada to make her APPEAR more attractive.

-getting her hair/nails/brows done - all to increase attraction !

Its all about perception man.

WOmen do tons of things to make themselves nicer/more attractive than they would be naturally - SO ,

*screaming in a mad voice*

SO WHY THE F.U.C.K is it a problem if u use pheros to enhance your qualities either. I call it quits !

Of course she isn\'t attracted JUST to your pheros. If you were an ugly/stupid lamer she wouldn\'t like u in the first place even with the BEST pheros on. YOu aren\'t a lamea$$ goddammit , You\'re da man without pheros - and you are even more \"da man\" with pheros !

Afterall , u gave it to her 3 times in a row , she liked it (something SHE WILL remember for a long time) , I guess she was simply exhausted , or had a mood swing (women have these from time to time [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] )
Absolutely nothing u need to worry about ! I say : She likes u for u AND for the sexual vibes she gets from the pheros !


different story :
Well lets ASSUME for a second , u were initially right , saying she is JUST/ONLY attracted to your ALTER EGO (the phero charged one)
-WHO F.U.K.I.N.G cares !?!? You still get to bang a hot chic ,and spend lots of quality/fun time with her (even if that means that u need to splash on pheros , every now and then)

Afterall : YOU MADE THAT CHOICE ! YOU decided to enhance your sexual side by using pheromones, so chances are SHE was MOST attracted by the sexual image you projected on her. (Perception)

Do u want a chic to love U , JUST for U !
K, Great , no problem , throw away your pheros , do a high teq laser surgery , that will remove all your apocrine glands , and thus stop your natural phero outputs forever, stop wearing nice clothes , stop gettin your hair done , hit the librarys ...blablabla... doesn\'t make sense , does it ?

And then finally , think of all the ugly guys with extremly nice girlfriends ! (There are plenty of these combinations at any local mall) Theory is , that some of these have naturally very high pheormone outputs , so they attract women naturally. Lol ! YOu think they would ever complain lol , that their hot babes don\'t love them for who they are = ugly f.u.c.k.s with huge phero outputs ??? NOPE SIR !

All you do by using pheormones is putting yourself on the same phero-wise attraction level as other \"naturally advantaged\" people , like beautiful men (JVK said , beatiful men = good genetics = good smelling = high phero output) , successfull men in powerfull positions , more power = higher testo output...well u get the point - why not put yourself on the same level ? Its only FAIR !

DOn\'t ever worry bout a damn thing man , life\'s too short for that , enjoy the great moments - they are rare !


Hrhr something rhymed there [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]


<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
damn good post bro....

AMAZING!!! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img] From \"she won\'t love me if I don\'t use mones\" to \"how to do the nasty.\" Note: Never end your love making/nasty session in the position you start out in...unless you\'ve ventured into at least one other before time runs out and pop goes yer weasel. By Mobley. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]


Can I get a hand with this throbber? [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img] Yes...a slow hand. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Ask HER.
Ask her to show her how she likes to be touched.
Every woman\'s a little different.

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

I don\'t know, FTR... With older women (i.e. not teenagers) or younger women who are comfortable with their sexuality and with their bodies, a guy should definitely ask if he\'s in doubt. But with the younger more inexperienced ones, he could end up just making her feel self-conscious. Not all women masturbate, so it\'s likely that if she doesn\'t and/or if she hasn\'t had a nice range of experience, she\'s probably not actually going to know *what* she likes. I know that *you* know this, so I just thought I\'d point out the difference for Jon\'s sake... [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Jon, if that\'s the case, you\'re better off just trying different things until you get a satisfying reaction out of her. And seeing as how you aren\'t very experienced either, it might take some time and experimentation. So, be patient and go with the flow, and you\'re guaranteed to have a good time in the process. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Jon, if that\'s the case, you\'re better off just trying different things until you get a satisfying reaction out of her. And seeing as how you aren\'t very experienced either, it might take some time and experimentation. So, be patient and go with the flow, and you\'re guaranteed to have a good time in the process. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

Dat right dar!! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

He can establish communication with her about it, though, e.g., if he\'s caressing her breasts, he can ask her if she wants a firm touch or a lighter touch, etc.

Yes, she\'ll feel self-conscious, but if he says he wants her to help him make it really really good for her, wouldn\'t it also be a little erotic?

But you\'re quite right, DVK, I agree with the spirit of your post.

I guess my worry is that the younger guys take SO much responsibility upon themselves to make it a good experience, when the girl can, too, if she can get the confidence up to talk about what\'s working for her and what isn\'t.

At any rate, many women can\'t come with a new partner, for many women it takes several tries ... so if she doesn\'t come or if you think somehow the experience was not what it should be, just remember for one it\'s not all your job, and for two, practice makes perfect, so try try again. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Okay, everyone\'s adding good info, but I don\'t think Jon is going to walk away with anything concrete here. Lemme explain what he needs to know:

She\'s a younger lover (or at least, will be) so he needs not to be examining her under a spotlight and inquiring about every touch he makes. He needs to be confident. But he does want feedback so here\'s how you get it. While you\'re feeling her, Jon, you listen to her breathing and decide to continue it or stop and as you\'re doing that you say, \"Do you like that?\" It\'s easier and more of a turnon for a girl to reply, \"Hmmmm, yes\" as opposed to a direct question like \"Should I stimulate you harder or softer? What about here?\" You don\'t want to interrupt her if you can help her. You want to amplify her emotions. Using softball yes or no questions will totally turn her on by the mere sound of her own voice and you\'re suave delivery.

There, that\'s it. Don\'t make it too complicated. Listen to the breathing and introduce comments under your own breath like, \"You feel sooo good. Do you like this?\"

You don\'t need details. You know what to do. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

And you HAVE to give her oral, it\'s in the contract.

Put on the pheros, get her in bed, use her until she has no use for you , and if she doent like you dump her and go to the next girl. 4 weeks is too early for love. When you see the \"end\" coming, bang her like theres no tommorow and then dump her. This routine is good for some men and women.

MrBear, I like the way you think.

The man AIN\'T worrying about getting any...he\'s getting plenty! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img] The man\'s wanning the girly to fall in love with him, and not the mones! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img] Mister Man...by the time you find out the answer...it\'s normally toooooo late. It\'s either love at first sight, or mones at first bite. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img]

Mister Bear ---- You animal!! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img] You too Senior Whiffy!!! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]


\"Take the ribbon from your hair. Shake it loose, and let it falllllllll.\" [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

Hi all!

You all gave me very useful hints and there´s not very much to add [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Concerning my natural pheromone output:
I already do a lot of sport (martial arts, body building) about 4 times a week
but I don´t have the physical appearance of an alpha male (skinny but strong)
So I think there should be enough natural pheromone output, or should I try to
increase it even more?


TBIRD wrote: \"SO WHY THE F.U.C.K is it a problem if u use pheros to enhance your qualities either.
I call it quits ! Of course she isn\'t attracted JUST to your pheros. If you were an ugly/stupid lamer she
wouldn\'t like u in the first place even with the BEST pheros on. YOu aren\'t a lamea$$ goddammit ,
You\'re da man without pheros - and you are even more \"da man\" with pheros !\"

@TBIRD: Before I read your post I thought about 3 possibilities how (applied) peromones could work...

- If they just ENHANCE (amplifiy) my own natural pheromone signature there wouldn´t be
any deception, because it is still ME but in a stronger way

- But if they SIMULATE an \"ideal of a man\" (that REPLACES ME) that has nothing in common
with my ME (personality, biological structures,...) than it could be a problem

- If applied pheromones react on your skin with your own pheromones, then this is very likely
an individual reaction which causes an individual signature. This would be a MIX that still
includes my own pheromones

IF pheromones would work like drugs that deafen womans senses and judgement, then
she couldn´t tell nice from ugly any longer. She would termlessly fall in love even with
someone that she normally (without pheromones) would avoid because of strong antipathy [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img]

But hopefully there has to be a fundamental sympathy first! And then there comes the
point when pheros can start to work and help to get further. Is it like that?

However I think that there have to be a lot of more things (matching criterias) that
make relationships work. And like WATCHER said, one needs to back pheros up
with something.

I´ll heed your advice concerning sex! Thank you TBIRD and all others this were fantastic
and motivating posts [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]