with
Ralph Nader deciding to run. He can only help McCain and hurt the Dem nominee. Ron Paul won't run outside the
Republican party so he chances now are about zero. Looks like more of the same for the next 4-8 years, what a
shame.
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with
Ralph Nader deciding to run. He can only help McCain and hurt the Dem nominee. Ron Paul won't run outside the
Republican party so he chances now are about zero. Looks like more of the same for the next 4-8 years, what a
shame.
Yes it is KK, and a lot has
developed other than Nader.
I fully expected to have a clear Dem nominee by now. For the first time in decades
their race is actually exciting. They're essentially the same candidate, but with opposite
approaches/personalities. Of course if either were elected the result would be the same. I think Mar.4 will be the
day of reckoning (Tex/OH). They are very different but equally important States.
Agree that Nader would pull
from any Dem candidate, but I'm not sure that he'll be on the ballot. The Dems are fighting him with all they
have.
I've been thinking about Bel's comments about our choices, and your theory of a "dynasty". I don't know
what we can realistically expect from our current electoral system. The rules almost automatically disqualify third
parties, and even if someone like Nader or Perot or even Paul were to become viable, the established majority within
the system just will not allow their entrenched position to be compromised. Its almost more bureaucratic than
political. I don't see it as a conspiracy so much as a creeping decline in America's spirit of individualism, in
the largest sense of the word.
Today's individualism is self centered and narcissistic. Instead of demanding
opportunity, and freedom from intervention, we demand entitlements. "I want to be free" has been replaced with "I
want" because "I deserve".
To the extent that any gov't is involved in your life the less free you are. The
whole purpose of our form of Gov't is to deny or restrict restraints on freedom. The creeping socialism resulting
from an uninformed and selfish electorate is the conspiracy not of tyrants, but of a deteriorating ideal.
The whole damned reason the USA was
founded on, was freedom of Religious worship, as one's choice, and freedom from an oppressive government. A
government for the people, of the people, and by the people. Anyone who thinks that is still the case, is
crazy.:smite:
Tounge and Idesign, you both
have it right. We lose another freedom every day and nobody seems to care about it any more, so long as they have
their toys and their rights to do whatever they want without consequences. What they don't get is that over time we
are becoming more and more what we claim to hate, an oppressive and overbearing government raping the working people
of the fruits of their labor to give it to others. Eventually, our lifestyle will suffer because we will become less
productive and less able to care for ourselves. We already are moving that direction and instead of trying to
improve matters we lower the bar on expectations so it looks like we are improving.
you'll never
hear the President of the United States say:
"We're going to war with the evil country of xxxxxx and we'll
split the loot with all you good people who are so supportive of us"
what they do say is:
"We're
going to war and sacrifices will have to be made by you people who voted for me in the first place on my platform of
limited government, lower taxes, and no nation building", while secretly gloating about all the money they will make
for themselves and close associates.
I agree with all 3 of you. There's some hope I think as the WWII,
"greatest generation" folks are dying off or getting too old to go out and vote.
If you were in public schools
recently you will probably use small words.
dude srsly wat make u tink
dat?
that was good.
I remember when my son was about to graduate high school, he had to write a composition for English class and he
used a word processor with a decent thesaurus system, he asked me to read it for my opinion. I knew things were bad
at his school (50% dropout rate) but I didn't know it was that bad. Fortunately, he went in the Army then got out
and went to college and went back in the Army as a Lt (being in the military usually means doing a lot of reading
due to boredom).
Back to politics. Here's a great Ron Paul video that would have served RP's interest
much better than the crap ads they put out:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2pMYlyxI_44
So,
what do we have now?
Obama
Clinton
McCain
Huckabee
Paul
Nader
That's my ranking of
the likely winner, certainly not my choice though.
I know that we disagree on this
KK - which is really more fun - but here's my list of likely winners.
Switch 1 and 2 to 2 and 3 and move 3 to 1.
The rest don't matter.
As of today, I really do think that Clinton is out, and think that Obama will not be
able to stand up to scrutiny in a campaign where he has to talk about and defend actual policy. With all his
shortcomings, McCain is serious and experienced. Obama, when the day comes when he actually has to say something
substantial, will become less popular.
As a professional politician,
Obama is gifted but still kind of young. He will have to grow up fast against McCain for exactly the reason you
state.
I expect McCain to kick his butt a little at first, in terms of confidence about military issues,
especially. Obama has yet to fully demonstrate what he is made of. It should be interesting just on human level just
to see how he handles it. In some ways, McCain is the perfect foil for Obama, as well as the toughest. Dude has been
around the block. If McCain kicks his ass thoroughly, Obama doesn't deserve to be president.
Obama is
currently more popular than McCain, but that and a cup of coffee gets you, um ... Well, you know what I mean.
It's like in the NBA where you have to go through the Spurs in the playoffs to demonstrate you're somebody.
Wow Doc, very astute analysis, but somehow I'm not surprised. Welcome to the
fray.
Have to agree completely with your assessment of the dynamics in a potential race between Obama and McCain.
Political campaigns are not evangelical camp meetings, and you have to step up to a pretty high standard of
knowledge, experience and ability to be taken seriously. If Obama stops singing Kum-ba-ya to the faithful and
engages serious ideas he will have a chance. Somehow I don't think he's grown up enough, as you
alluded.
They're already starting to spar, leaving Hillary behind, and Obama is showing his talent of
resiliency, but not too much in the way of substance.
This will be a very interesting race to watch.
numbers for Texas
courtesy of Zogby:
McCain: 53%
Huckabee: 27%
Paul: 11%
____
Obama: 48%
Clinton: 42%
if you disregard party,
IDesign is right on the money with his predictions, I'm off a bit by predicting Obama the winner.
Then again, the fat lady is still in the green room. This race is too interesting, and
watching it with you guys is fun.
What I wish for:
Candidates on BOTH sides who have:
- the inspiration of
Obama
- the experience of McCain
- the tenacity of Clinton
- the revolutionary spirit of Paul
- the management
style of Romney
- none of Nader's qualities, well, maybe focus or something :P
As for politics... Buckley of
course. :)
:wave:
Hey all of you
out there in Ohio and Texas!
Make sure you get to the polls and cast a vote for Hillary!
so far, Hillary is getting
the Hispanic vote in Texas while Obama is getting the majority of the Black vote.
Will that have a canceling
effect? If so, that would leave it to the whites. Obama (amazingly) gets educated, Hillary gets less educated.
Should be an interesting night.
Well now, interesting day
yesterday. Looks like Obama's balloon has been deflated. His star rose so quickly he was bound for a fall.
What'll be interesting is how he handles himself now that he has to work for a living. Hillary will surely go for
the jugular, and Obama has to think about what kind of candidate he's going to become now that the free ride is
over.
On the Rep. side... yaawwwwnnnn. The only interest now is who McCain will choose for a running mate. Any
speculation?
Hillary's net delegate gain
from all of yesterday will probably be around 4 delegates, according to one analyst. That is far fewer than the
delegate margin Obama won from DC alone. So she did what she needed to do, but not enough to dislodge Obama as front
runner, in terms of votes and committed delegates. Mainly what she did was establish that this race will probably go
the distance. Hillary is all about the superdelegates (a strange concept).
What is really going to be a bit of
surreal melodrama is to watch the superdelegates whimsically decide who the nominee will be at the convention. Every
superdelegate will be analyzed to death. Many of them are Clinton cronies, of course.
Nonetheless, all this is
good for McCain, who has somewhat of a luxury to back off from attacking Obama and let Hillary do it. He can try to
be classy and take a bit of a high road. Hillary seems to have more of a stomach for attacking than McCain does,
anyway.
Just as Rush Limbaugh asked all his listeners to go vote for Hillary, I think it benefits the
Republicans to see a prolonged battle on the Dem side.
McCain can almost shoot to the tropics for a vacation at
this point.
The thing that "messed with my head" was Hillary publically acknowledging a Clinton/Obama ticket as
a possibility. What's up with that? Just struck me as strange, especially now. I wonder what Barack thinks of that
prospect. I'm betting he'd prefer Edwards. something about Vice President Hillary strikes me as spooky -- too much
like First Lady Hillary. Then you'd also have Bill Clinton participating in an Obama White House, if they won.
McCain's choice of running mate will say a lot about whether he wants to be perceived as a staunch conservative
or a moderate. It's too early for me to hazard a guess, but lately he has certainly been more concerned with
building credibility among the further right. That is why the Bush endorsement seems to have been welcomed.
Agree Doc, the Dem race is far
from over and is completely unpredictable at this point. Today's front runner is tomorrow's also-ran.
The
importance of Tex/Ohio is not only that Obama's mojo is hobbled, but that Hillary won in the Bible Belt and the
Rust Belt. She's won the big States, which have a greater cross-section of the electorate.
Super delegates are
strange indeed, and I think were created to keep the party from running away from itself, say with a fringe
candidate. The result is that the Democrat establishment has a lot of power in choosing the candidate, esp in a
situation like we have now. I think if the race continues to be as close as its been, the Supers will be in play
big time. They'll have to put their collective finger in the air and decide who's best to run against
McCain.
Its definitely strange about the Clinton/Obama ticket thing. It must be either a lapse in judgement or
some kind of balloon floated out there for reaction.
One downside for McCain is that the Dem race will get all
the media coverage. McCain needs to find a way to keep himself on TV.
McCain's running mate will indeed
determine how he intends to approach this race. I posted a while back that he could choose Lieberman. A lot of
conservatives like him, and talk about a "bridge" ticket! One wonders if Huckabee hung on as long as he did for a
VP nod.
Lieberman would be
interesting. A lot of people have talked about it. Dems tend to hate him for being a "turncoat", of course. It just
seems McCain would more likely choose someone further toward the right. But that's just based on recent trends from
him. How do you think Huckabee and he would get along?
Here's a thoroughly strange idea, just for fun:
Obama/Powell!
Powell has hinted at a possible party change anyway, or at least at considering it. That would
boost his military/defense/foreign policy/experience cred in an instant, be consistent with his "reach across the
aisle" thing; and provide the poetry of an all AA ticket.
:lol: VPs are votes!
Rounding out the ticket like a well constructed perfume.
Obama/Powell is brilliant, too brilliant for TV, much
like McCain/Lieberman. We could be wrong though. This race is unique in recent history.
One wonders... the
Clinton/Obama ticket, or vice-versa, could be a strategy floated to achieve much the same as you suggested in your
AA idea. First black and first woman. Might be irresistable.
McCain has a lot to overcome, both in conservative
circles and in broad popularity. His choice will be interesting. He doesn't have to get along with Huckabee, look
at Clinton/Gore, they never liked each other.
Now we are officially getting
silly. How about McCain and Nancy Reagan, or Barbara Bush? Hillary has shown that former first ladies belong in the
White House, after all. :)
Hillary/Obama and McCain could become running mates, ensuring that both of them make
the White House no matter how we vote, calling attention to the absurdity of our political system.
Anyone, feel
free to rescue the thread from our tomfoolery.
I like your McCain/much older
former first lady idea...it would make him look younger! As it is he appears ancient.
Is there any rule
saying that McCain couldn't pick the current Bush as his running mate? I should know this, but I don't.
I'm trying to think of something even sillier, but it can't be done. Unless...McCain picked Bush Sr., then
McCain wins and dies a day into office, and Bush Sr. picks Bush Jr. as his VP at that point.
how's about Hillary
picking Jeb Bush as her running mate, "to mend the fences" so to speak. Ron Paul has seemingly thrown in the towel,
just doesn't come right out and say it which is strange to me, oh well.
I think it's almost a given that
McCain will pick Lieberman as VP.
But, for the entrepeneur here's an idea. Set up one of those plate
printing factories that depict the Royal Family.