This is like a mystery game, although I'm not having fun!

If you think about it, this is HARD!!!

The amount to use not only differs per person or product, but on age too. I\'m thinking it\'s like playing the lottery pretty much, with possibly better chances. Although, these lottery tickets do seem a little pricy [img]images/icons/laugh.gif[/img].

Now I\'m writting this hoping that somehow, somewhere, there is another person like me. Chances are slim, but hey it\'s worth a try.
Now I read the forum, but there is so much terminology used that my head is spinning. Please forgive me if I mix something up.

My problem is, I\'m 20 years old, not using any of these pheromones and somehow I repel women. No kidding! No I\'m not a fat slob, nor drink or smoke. Actually quite the opposite, but I guess I could exercise a little more. Anyway, girls have completely no interrest in me. They won\'t even look at me. If they do, it\'s probably by accident HA! There were a few times in high school that girls starred when I wasn\'t looking, and then turned around quickly when I did. Actually I had one eye on them all the time, they just didn\'t notice. Well back then I was a little shy, and didn\'t approach them. Hey what would you do when 99% of women don\'t care if you are even alive? I thought it would have been the same. Still, if 3 girls out of a total of 2500 girls stare at you then that\'s a little sad [img]images/icons/frown.gif[/img].

Well lately I\'ve been reading up on these pheromones. Now if I\'m not mistaked too much of one pheromone repels women, mostly the pheromone called androstenone. The pheromone called androstenol suppose to make women feel much more confrotable around you, smiling, laughing you name it. Now after reading this I thought that I might have too much natural androstenone, and no androstenol at all. That\'s the only way I can explain it though. Although the curious thing is mostly men which work out a lot release androstenone, and I don\'t work out as much as I should. Still I do sweat a lot when actually trying to talk with a women I\'m attracted too, but that might be normal considering how hard I\'m actually trying [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]. Anyway what do you guys make of this? A 20 year old guy who naturally repels women without doing anything. Yeah I know, it\'s strange and trust me, it\'s nothing about me personally. So do you guys think I should get a product which has more or is mostly composed of androstenol? That would make the woman more comfortable around me, right? Now I can\'t completely rule out the cause of this on androstenone, so I was thinking of getting \"Attraction\" which has a 2:1 ratio of nol to none. Not only that it\'s suppose ot smell nice and comes in a nice and big 30ml bottle. Origonally I was thinking of getting \"Alter Ego\", but I think it has equal amounts of all these pheromones. Actually it has one more that I have yet to figure out what it does, androsterone (rone). Anyway, what do you guys recommend for a guy with this \"condition\"!

LuvHurts,
Assuming you actually have this condition, I would take lots of showers and use Scent of Eros. It has no androstenone and is very effective.

But excuse me if I’m skeptical that such a condition even exists. Much less that you have it. Judging from how people react when I use too much androstenone you would experience: 1) tense, agitated women, 2) belligerent and/or submissive guys, 3) exceedingly bad BO, 4) everybody avoiding eye contact, and 5) a whole lot of personal space.

But when you say that you sweat a lot while trying to talk to a woman, my first thought is that you’re trying way too hard and this makes a bad impression. If that’s the case, I’d recommend aikido classes. It’s a good way to develop self-confidence and a more relaxed demeanor. Not to mention you might meet some nice girls.

I was going to say the same thing about trying too hard.

I don\'t know about aikido though... my recommendation is that you just force yourself to talk to women. For a while they\'ll smell your desperation and reject you, but consider it a good thing. [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img] It\'ll get you more comfortable talking to women.

IMO, there really is no greater turn-off than desperation.

Tips try pheromones (SOE probably for beginners) secondly use the influence to make some money (brush up on accelerated learning techniques) play the stock market - learn how and make money. Go and learn some more about fastsedution or speed seduction (NLP even it all stems from the same source) and if you get really despeate if brothels are legal in your area some people consider this sort of realise (forget about religious and moral beliefs) unless you are so inclined. I personally wouldnt use it but thats just me - if others do so and they do then some men need somewhere they can go to get it off as far as pressure and the urge. But it can be diffucult with confidence had the same problem myself - used pheros to build self confidence and now quite often dont use them but it makes things easier anyway.
Or buy yourself a mail order bride from russia only kidding there. There really isnt much advice other than that i can give because it seems to be when it comes to women you either have to lower youre standards on looks or they are just that way that thier whole behaviour revolves around being with the best (prince charming syndrome) but its annoying but try talking them round and you get nowhere use whatever you need to including pheromones its a bitch in life you gotta get tough and plough through to the top or at least try to.

I don\'t know about the rest of the folks around here, but the pheros are just a crutch. They help at best. The three things that have done more for me are: One, smile, really you\'d be surprised about how many times a night you are not. Two, be confident in yourself. You are you, and nothing they can do will change that. Three, if a girl asks you a question (like \"Hi\",) you have to reply promptly. Even if it is just, \"How are you doing.\" You appear confident, and the girls seem to like that. Odd, but it seems to be true. Needless to say those are the easy things to incorperate, without pheros or anything else.

But, pheros give you an edge, so if ya got \'em use them.

[ February 27, 2002: Message edited by: Walter Mitty ]

If you\'re nervous and anxious around women, they\'ll pick up on that and won\'t be attracted.

What I find is absolutely great for tense moments is kava. A little bit of it sort of disconnects that part of the brain that gets you nervous from the rest of your body. I use it before a plane trip, for example.

Get an extract, as from Gaia or Herbpharm, and use a dropperfull before a social situation. It\'s not dopey nor will it interfer with driving at that dose - you can use a lot more and get a tad stoned although it\'s not great fun and rather pointless and dull (sounds like I\'ve tried it, eh?) It does taste lousy and don\'t mix with much alcohol as there is some potentiation.

It won\'t make you a scintillating personality but you will be more mellow and easier to connect with.

I\'d also try SoE for starters as it works to relax other people and make them more approachable and receptive.

So next time that you\'ll be in a social situation with interesting females, try a little kava and a couple of swipes of SoE. Somewhere out there is a woman for you - the planet\'s got 3 BILLION of \'em, after all.

And, just like the classic NY cab driver directions on how get to Carnegie Hall, \"Practice, practice, practice!\"

I wouldn\'t compare it so much to a \"lottery\" as to creating a work of art; not easy, but not just a matter of blind luck as you can see from looking around the forum.

I think it is possible to give off a natural smell that repels people, but it is not likely to be straight aNONE. In nature the pheromone pallet is not limited to 3 or 4 colors, but probably consists of thousands if not millions of distinct shades. Some \"stress\" and \"fear\" pheromones have already been cleared identified and even commercially produced by scientists/engineers. Breaking out of a circle of stress and failure is not easy and requires a lot more than buying a bottle of pheromoes (IMO). Aikido could well help. I studied the art here in Japan for about 8 years and it helped me a lot.
Good luck,
Bruce

The one use i have found for SOE is its abiltiy to relax myself (the old nose trick) and to relax others around me especially those that are prone to stress which means i can go to work and get things out of the situation that i am looking for.

Women are INCREDIBLE at picking up on a persons attitude from what to men seems like inconsequential minutia...

What goes trough your mind when you see a good-looking woman, what is the EXACT toughts that passes through yor brain???

Satan

PS: anybody ever have a cold that was so bad you could swear you lost weight every-time you blew your nose??? [img]images/icons/mad.gif[/img]

BRO READ THIS!!!!
Here is is man! First of all there is no such thing as your condition. The only \"condition\" you have is chronic self-degradation. And you are in control of it. Read your post again but w/ a phycologist and self help kind of eye. You can find a lot of self-created-self-limiting believes and self-created-self-degrading believes. \"When I looked back at the girl she looked away.\" >>> ALL GIRLS DO THIS, FOOOLL!!! \"99% of the girls don\'t like me\" bla bla bla. With these believes how the hell do you expect not to fucking sweat??!! Can you answer ME that please? You see how you are controling your world.
You want my straight Dr. PHIL answer to solve all your problems: here goes anyway because I know you don\'t want to hear it.
I am going to come out strong but only to get through to you. Not to insult you. I don\'t care who I sound, again I just want to get through to you to help you out bro.

Pretty much, your acting like a pansy, because you want everything easy. You want girls to jump on you, you want guys to respect you and be all badass w/ you right of the bat. You want it all free because you think that having and creating the right personality and thought process is too hard. You have linked to much pain to creating the rihght personality and way at looking at life.
What this does is send out a \'question\' or \'problem to be solved\' out to your subconsious. That is: How do I attract girls and still have a bad selfesteem and also not shine w/ a good personality?
Powerful subconsious takesover: Oh ok Ill just choose this kind of invisible way of walking into a room(back bent, chest in head down, so on and so forth), I won\'t develop sexy, echanting eye contact (this has nothing to do w/ eye color-its the feeling that you can create w/ a good gaze) I won\'t follow up on girls that look at me. I won\'t make any friends that are girls, because what I\'m looking for is a girlfriend not just a friend, but I suck at getting a girlfriend. Sweat alot while talking to a girl. bla bla

What you have to realize is that as human we are driven to success or failure by two forces. Plesure and Pain. You see a girl and want to experience the pleasure of talking to her, maybe getting her to smile or laugh, her make you smile, have a relationship w/ her and be happy together. But then you think about the pain of her rejecting you. and you decide to make that really painful. and you act upon that pain instead of the successful pleasure.
Humans will do much more to avoid pain than to gain pleasure. Think about it what would you rather do work to save $25,000 or try to keep someone from stealing your $25,000.
You decide to act on the pain, but think about it, how does the little short-term pain of rejection compare to the pain of not having a girlfriend, and to the pain of you thinking you suck when really you really just made a wrong decision.
All you have is a thought condition-period. You can stop it, and get rid of it.

What you have to do is link \"not\" talking to girls to a whole lot of pain and taliking to girls to a whole lot of pleasure. Not orgasm pleasure but just pleasure.
ALL OF THIS is from the audio cassette series or Personal Power! by Anthony Robbins. Go out right now and buy it. Or check out your university library, thats where I found it too. But he is extremely famous in the business world.
here is his assingmnent written by him on the cassette tapes.

PERSONAL
POWER!
UNLEASH YOUR PERSONAL
POWER!

Vol. 1 – CASSETTE TWO: THE CONTROLLING FORCE THAT DIRECTS YOUR LIFE

Everything we do in life comes from our need to avoid pain and our desire to gain pleasure—both are biologically driven and constitute the controlling force in our lives

We will do far more to avoid pain than we will to gain pleasure—pain is a greater motivator

At any moment in time, whatever you focus your attention on is what is most real to you. Therefore, if you want ot change your behavior, you must focus your attention on:
1. How not changing your behavior will be more painful than changing it
2. How changing will bring you pleasure

Use pain and pleasure instead of letting pain and pleasure use you

You must change what you link pain and pleasure to, in order to change your behavior

YOUR ASSIGNMENT:

Write down:
1. Four new actions you know you should take
2. What pain is that you associate with them that has kept you from taking these actions
3. All the pleasure you’ve gotten from not following through on these four actions
4. What will it cost you if don’t follow through on these four actions
5. All the benefits you will gain by taking action in each of these areas now

The world, and the female gender, do not owe you a girlfriend. Just like the world doesn\'t owe you a plush mansion and a Ferrari. A tiny few on the planet blunder into wealth/success/easy relationships - the rest of us have to work for it. It\'s the law of the jungle, and many beautiful souls fall by the wayside in favor of practical/aggressive rivals - but hey, you can\'t change the world. You can only change what you DO. Until you believe that, any actions you take will probably just reinforce a self-defeatist attitude.

You must make the effort to understand women, and tailor your initial approaches to their tastes. Cause in the beginning, women have the power. They can say no, ignore you, refuse to return calls, stand you up - all those \'horrible\' things you fear. That\'s their power, and they deserve to have it, cause they must be selective - men are a bigger risk to women than women are to men.

So initially, you must present yourself as someone they might want to spend more time with. They are not obligated to like you, talk to you, or anything else - especially if they don\'t know you. When you approach them you are submitting to their evaluation…and if you have any sense you\'ll tailor your approach to women\'s tastes. If you are making no approach at all you are tending toward elimination from the gene pool. Part of being a man is to accept these unpleasant truths, and work with reality.

Brother, you just have to quit focusing on how you would like things to be, and focus on becoming and presenting yourself as what women want to meet and date. It\'s not that hard really, and there\'s plenty of info out there on approaching women, conversation skills, etc. But first have to shift your mindset into something like \"I\'m going to get to work now. Find out what women want in a prospective date, and work with what I have to become that and act like that\". It actually becomes fun, once you realize you won\'t shrivel up and die if a girl rejects you. But you sure can\'t expect women to do to you what you personally are afraid to do - make a confident approach as an appealing human being.

Don\'t waste money on pheromones till you\'ve got the rest of this stuff under your belt.

LuvHurts, let me point out something:

I do not think pheromones will help much with the kind of problem you are having. Even more so, I think that if you keep this desperado attitude, actually pheros can work against you!

I agree with most opinions here, so do not take this lightly.

When I found out, I do not actually need some woman around to be perfectly happy, then I started getting all kinds of female attention. Isn\'t this a paradox?

Well clearly too much natural a-none is not the problem, the problem is your attitude.

Some other posters say you shouldnt use pheromones, I think for someone like you SOE might be a good deal, it is always nice to have people around you who act friendlier.

Besides that, wearing pheromones could be a confidence booster. [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

im telling u guys we gotta watch out before the women take over and turn into lesbians.

Another thought that comes to my mind is that there are very simple yet true facts about women\'s behaviour. This little extract is based on reading several anthropologial books. It is all very simple and based on some of Darwin\'s concepts as well as others.

Natural selection works it\'s way by trying to make sure that the most apt individuals get reproduced.

So in order to ensure the survival of the species there are a few basic instincts (like hunger, sleep and sex among others).

The male in the human species has the natural instinct to try to get the as many females pregnant as he can. The female, in turn has to make sure to form a \"family\" in order to ensure the raising of the newborns.

Of course the \"most apt\" children will certainly come from the stronger (most apt) males, so, that is why power, and money are so strong at attracting women. Intelligence and selft assurance do not come second in this department. Looks are good because they also point out healthy members, etc.

Of course in a few lines I will no try to write whole theories, but, believe me, many very bright scientists have written so.

The bottom line is that women feel repelled by loosers, weak or specimen that otherwise point to them they may not render the best \"results\".

Now, in order to be confident with women, you first have to be confident yourself. It is a quality you develop, and does not have so much to do with what you can say but with attitude.

The bottom line is simple: females are attracted to males that are confident, succesful, powerful but sensitive, corageous and protective. Pheromones will give you the healty edge.

Hmm the \"telling the guy\" responses that are evident in the replies to luvhurts is exactly what I was trying to avoid by asking him to participate and figure out what was going troug his head when he saw a woman(If a person has low self-esteem it doesn´t do him much good to scream it to his face)
Less than 1% of the population responds in a psychologicaly positive way from being told what the problem is.

LuvHurts posted on the 26th it is now the 28th he has yet to post again.............................


Satan

I have a suggestion, and it\'s not a joke. Consider going to the Mustang Ranch or some other legal brothel. Airfare to Vegas worldwide is cheap as hell right now. The girls are clean(much cleaner than the average bar slut). They have regular doctor checkups and always use condoms. And it might serve to \"get your feet wet\". I understand you are not just looking for sex. And you\'re still young enough to be idealistic, which is good. But maybe spending some quality time with a pro might be all the therapy you need to get kick started. You\'ll find that poon seems to come in waves. At times it will be dry as the Sahara desert. Then all of a sudden you\'re drowning in it and it\'s all you can do to keep the juggling act going. Hopefully while you are juggling someone special comes along that makes you drop the rest in the blink of an eye. At least that\'s how it\'s always been for me. Give it some thought anyway.

Ok we have established they have some effect but as to how much well discussion will rage. I agree with bad_grass that if you actually stop wanting a gf women around then you might well get more (this has to be reflected in youre core beliefs how you act, youre attitudes etc) not just for one day for as long as you need to. I went through the same thing concentrate on improving youre lot for the medium term and things start happening. It is a paradox (now we need to approach this from the female perspective - do they think the same way -- you know i dont need a man so im gunna stay single but then they dont have a constant sex drive either)

But the opposite in real life is that most men raise familites etc and women who cannot get at the best guys do actually settle for less (its the simple lack of time to find the best and keep them) becasue the better quality men so to speak move around (which has given rise to the need in humanns for committment) so every male has a chance you just gotta keep at it but pheromones do act as an enhancer that will move you up slightly its discreet except for those of us that have really learned to use them in the best way. Hey wilde mate hows philly.

Boy I guess he now wishes he never asked!

Anyway my two penny worth:

The funny thing about love is, is that its better to regret something you have done, than to regret something you haven\'t done............

I dunno if I can agree with Watcher\'s post. No disrespect, but... Are women settling for less? Or are there unrealistic goals? They are both just questions, but from the married couples I know and love, the goods are much better than the bads (Oh yeah, these are the folks who have been married for a while, and like it.)

I do not agree with StanBo, because money can buy sex, but it cannot buy lust.

She can be the hottest looking lady in the whole world, but if I do not turn her on, I would rather not be with her. Love and sex are two way streets.

My advice is... go for a girl that actually wants to fuck you, and you will have one hell of a time. Maybe, to get laid you just have to lower your standards a little?

Take a good look around you, chances are that there is a female around you have overlooked...

Make sure you do not get caught (women have the instinct to try to catch you for good, --and they have refined it to the level of art--) and be clear about your intentions from the beginning.


Good luck

Bad,

What I am suggesting is that maybe having sex and being intimate with someone could be a catalyst for changing the inferiority complex or whatever is going on. Maybe getting the \"deed\" done could give him the confidence and overall change in his approach to women that would make him more successful. Many \"professional\" women admit that often their clients want nothing more than to just talk. They still get paid, but actually for their hour or two of companionship, and there is no sex. I disagree. I think if he got laid, his attitude and approach to women might begin to change. Then the lust, romance, all that stuff might start falling into place. What\'s it gonna hurt? I\'m sure he\'s not lusting after Mr. hand right now, nor is Mr. hand lusting after him, yet they are both having sex together. I say start your engine before running the race.

Oops. It looks as if Satan was right.

(Do I go to hell for saying that?)

No, but you are welcome to my cabin!
http://www.krank.dk/jpg/Signs/satans_kingdom.jpg

First of all this is a very nice spin. great advice and different views.
sounds to me, like we have a board of social workers here.


anyway my man luv-hurts sounds like he has had a lifetime problem here.
And since he only made one post on this spin. seems to me, luv-hurts wasn\'t asking for life changing advise.

i don\'t know if he was exaggerating to make his point about his relationships or lack of. we live in a world society now (well most of us) where people want to be politically correct, self rigtheous, and have \"love for one-self\" attitude. and if you don\'t fall in line your outcasted.

It\'s also easy to give advise. especially when your not in that position.

we don\'t exactly know what\'s going on with luv-hurts, in order to give all of that detailed advise. Maybe the problem is\'nt with him. Maybe it\'s with the people not accepting him for what and who he is??? why should he mold himself to be something he may not be?? personally i know when i stopped being a nice guy to women, and also stopped trying to figure them out, i started getting some ass. it was like going from an appetizer teaser meal to an all-you-can-eat ass buffet.

Maybe he\'s a hermitt by nature, or he\'s attracted to snobby women. we don\'t know.

To answer your question about phermones helping you out. Yes go ahead with some nol products attraction sounds good.