nice guys vs jerks, there's more to life than this

There always seems to be this debate, whether \"nice guys\" or \"jerks\" get the girls. To me, that\'s a very limiting view of what your identity is.

I\'ve known guys who are charming, confident, with some charisma thrown in and they have no problem attracting women. They aren\'t the stereotypical macho \"jerk\" with the gold chain around their neck and the \"hey baby\" kind of attitude. Yet they aren\'t the proverbial shy \"nice guy\" either. It is an interesting blend.

One of the best movie characters I\'ve seen with this trait is Ferris Bueller. He had such great charm and confidence. He wasn\'t this over the top macho \"Fast and the Furious\" kind of guy. But he wasn\'t so \"nice\" as to let people walk all over him.

In my experience, charm and confidence are two of the key ingredients for succeeding with women.

I would agree with you, and I think a lot of others would also. But that does not mean there is no truth in the generalization. We can see evidence of it every day all around us. Correct me if I am wrong, but maybe what you want to say is that what a non-jerk needs to do is analyze what aspects of the jerk\'s personality are attractive to women, and incorporate those into your behavior. For example, you mentioned confidence. Often nice guys don\'t have confidence but jerks do. I\'m not saying all nice guys don\'t have confidence, but I think it may often be the case.

Jerks and nice guys are just 2 types of people. If you\'re wondering why the nice guys get fewer girls than the jerks lies in 2 factors.

1) Nice guys are usually timid.
2) The jerk guys usually give off the impression of a stronger hunter which (biologically) is more desired. Even in todays society.

I\'m a nice guy and get girls, so sit on that and swivel

[img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/wink.gif[/img]

well then there\'s the gentleman who is charming and confident, as you mentioned...that is the overall way to go i think

There\'s nothing wrong with being a \"nice guy\", as long as you don\'t agree with everything she says, buy her flowers and gifts once a week. Drop everything you\'re doing to fix her toilet, call her everyday or wash her car just to get her approval. You become boring and predictable and you will be dumped pretty soon for a jerky guy.

basically, those descriptions are extremes

no girl wants a complete [censored], either. they just want someone confident and with direction.
the term \"nice guy\" is the wrong term for it, it\'s just that the unconfident and confused usually make up for that by being super-nice

anyway, too busy to explain further, hope you get it from this

Think of attitude towards girls as contunious line --
|-----------------------------------|-----------------------------------|
nice guy optimal jerk

Now if you are fimilar with arstioles\' ethics then the virtue you want to obtain is in the middle, and the 2 vices are the nice guy and the jerk. You want to be a mixture of the 2 (close to the optimal point), not a push over nice guy and not a beligerant a__hole jerk.

dammit that didn\'t turn out right. there is suppose to be spaces between the text below the line. nice guy, optimal, jerk.

A more meaningful polarity is passive - aggressive.

In a perfect world, the ideal relationship would be give and take in equal measure. But sex roles being what they are, it\'s best to err on the side of aggressive.

I agree about the part of being \"charming\" and \"confident\" However, if you\'re too nice you\'ll wind up in \"the friend zone\" (Twilight Zone theme playing.) LOL If you\'re too nice, you\'ll be the big brother, advice guy, or the \"I have to go buy a new dress guy\" that\'s just there to offer fasion advice. lol

And don\'t EVER forget - never hold a woman\'s purse in public.

True. LOL

Especially if it doesn\'t go with your shoes...

my gf put it in clear terms what an example of nice guy/jerk is

situation: you go out for dinner

nice guy: lets her order for herself
--------------result: she perceives him as weak, or maybe her perception doesn\'t change at all, but there\'s no lasting impression left. hence decreased chance of getting laid

jerk: orders for her
--------------result: she says to herself \"what an a$$hole, who does he think he is?\" and he won\'t have a chance

the middle, aka \"nice jerk/gentleman\": he asks her what she wants, and then orders for him
--------------result: he shows that he is considerate, yet assertive/aggressive and it leaves a good impression on her. \"he\'s the one that will get laid\" thank god this is the category I fall under!!! [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

well, no you forgot number #4, where she not only orders for YOU, but PAYS the bill as well....this is called, \"im lazy, shiftless and very finicky...number 4 will get you laid prolly 99 out of 100 times, if youve had steady employmnt in last 30 days, may decrease your chances slightly...i knew a guy who was making 6 figures and his girlfirend was busy banging the dishwasher down at Fred\'s Grub...the dishwasher fathered all three of her kids and never spent a dime...go figure

No mystery there to me at all. Here\'s my read: The dishwasher cared to please her. Mr. Gotrocks expected to be serviced for the money he was providing.

Let me put it this way women think different to men.

Ie we want nice girls who are nice and will probably be passive. Bad girls are good but just for a root, or are pecieved as to flirtatous and left to wondering alpha males.

Women want jerks because they go further force themselves and their ideas on women they do all the thinking for them remember women are lazy and want men to do thinking for them. (forget feminisms ideas here)
Nice guys wont make a move sit back and let women do everything and think for them - women hate doing this it is like they have a girlfreind instead they want to be lead banged off and then lead and provided for while they raise the brood they want someone motivated - the jerk goes out and challanges the world to a constant duel - the downside is a jerk but who gives a damn.

So be nice but lead and take the aggressive role you can still be the gentlemen but lay youre boundries out etc dont be walked over.

Dear god, if there is a god, please help me, if you can help me.

-Ganesh Baba

I think you guys hit the nail on the head. To me, being too nice means:

Never saying no to her
Not standing up for yourself
Trying too hard to impress her
Giving and not being able to recieve
Not taking any risks (like going to the same old places on dates, not wanting to try something new)

It can become a vicious cycle though for \"nice guys\". Somewhere in the back of their mind, they think \"maybe nice guys do finish last\". So they try extra hard to be perfect. Then the girl is turned off. Then it reinforces his original thoughts.

Now me.... I´m an A s s h o l e, a nice a s s h o l e but never the less.......!

Satan

\"Dirty old man in training\"

I consider myself a guy that respects women but refuses to put up with a lot of their [censored], i can walk away from a situation if needed and if she is [censored] assing about and not responding she will be left very quickly. I will not be used as a short-term flirt or a mental/ego plaything either. You play mind games with me then youll be left to play mind games with someone else.

I have many things to do in life without any bullshit, you can say that im not interested in sex (im just interested in chasing and chasing and chasing and then getting nowhere because you are an \"attention whore\" or just a plain bitch.

Any other comments i will be nice and considerate but dont take it for granted and i wont go overboard. If you dont give me something in return (sex eventually) then you will just have to go find some other sucker.

Watcher over and out lol.

Bwahahahaha! LMAO

Steady, FTR, steady now...

Actually, I\'m extremely proud of you, FTR. [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif[/img] You have exercised a heretofore unseen level of restraint, and I offer my sincere congratulations.

You didn\'t take the bait, and today marks a new beginning! You probably added 6 months to your lifespan today! hehe [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

Gerund <-------------------- so proud he could just bust!

EDIT OF MY PREVIOUS POST (EDITS ARE IN CAPS)

my gf put it in clear terms what an example of nice guy/jerk is

situation: you go out for dinner

nice guy: lets her order for herself
--------------result: she perceives him as weak, or maybe her perception doesn\'t change at all, but there\'s no lasting impression left. hence decreased chance of getting laid

jerk: orders for her, WITHOUT ASKING WHAT SHE WANTS
--------------result: she says to herself \"what an a$$hole, who does he think he is?\" and he won\'t have a chance

the middle, aka \"nice jerk/gentleman\": he asks her what she wants, and then orders for HER
--------------result: he shows that he is considerate, yet assertive/aggressive and it leaves a good impression on her. \"he\'s the one that will get laid\" thank god this is the category I fall under!!!

Good work sherlock very few men actually get it right as far as that third cateogory. That said i have found that by using pheros i can get away with a lot more and still get laid they cant help but to want me. Oh well luckily very few know about this stuff hey.

hey i was signing your petition but my internet connection cut off when i tried it. will try again later.

Oh great thanks pantero for signing the petition. And thanks for the advice as far as to how to do sex properly some of these threads are becoming quite useful. Pheromones enhance sex no end ive found.

Gerund, I\'m not sure how good this is for my health ...I\'ll burst a blood vessel or my head will explode ... thank you very much for the praise, I\'m very grateful. If you read in the paper about a case of spontaneous human combustion in my town, you\'ll know what happened.

So, Watcher...I\'m probably not hearing you right, so I need to ask you. When you talk about women who are flirtatious with you but won\'t come across, do you mean women who are, like, talking with you in some public place, at a bar or at a party, where everybody\'s having fun, and they\'re being playful? I\'m asking because while I completely and totally respect a no bullsh*t attitude, I wonder if you\'re missing out on one of the great pleasures of life, which is flirting as an end in and of itself. You were saying you won\'t be a woman\'s ego boost (something like that, right?) -- flirting is a harmless and pleasurable way to boost each other\'s ego and doesn\'t have to necessarily lead to anything at all, while you could spend a whole evening at it.

some people flirt to get somewhere, some flirt to flirt
i think guys are getting tired of the flirting to flirt, since they usually want/hope/think they will get somewhere by flirting (guys are goal-oriented, women are emotion-oriented - guys see themselves as having a good life when they\'ve acheived all their goals, women see themselves as having a good life when the state of all their personal relationships is on a good note - that\'s just a generalization, but with a degree of truth)

hence, watcher was clearing that up by asserting his beliefs in the new philosophy of the \"alpha male\" that most of us have discovered and rejoiced over (i used to be a PANSY!!!)
but watcher, i say this to you: never follow any rule off a cliff! if you are alpha male to not let any female waste your time, then remember that you control your beliefs, they don\'t control you - if you feel like flirting shamelessly and pointlessly, then do it if you feel like it, even if you\'re thinking - \"it goes against the RULES!!!\" but i\'m sure you knew this, i\'m just writing it out so others can see it, and maybe you too if you didn\'t know. [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif[/img] then again, it\'s your choice to live how you want, so don\'t follow my rules off a cliff, either!

i still see guys being nice guys and letting women walk all over them, and hoping that if they are basically androgynous, the women will feel comfortable enough to be sexual with them... what a shame. but hey, in the end something good will come their way, they\'ll get good karma. either that or they\'ll get heartbroken and pissed off and become a jerk. everything works out in the end, doesn\'t it seem so?

As generalizations go, I think that\'s a good one re women and men/goal directedness, which is kind of my point. Stop and smell the flowers, relax. Maybe some women don\'t want to have sex with you but still enjoy your company or admire you as a male and want approving interaction with you (flirting) - why would you withhold that? I don\'t understand why it wouldn\'t give you pleasure even if it didn\'t lead to sex.

I do understand if you\'re talking about a girl who teases while using you for dinners, or to help her move, or for whatever services you can provide, and then gets coy when you want to take it to the next level. But someone who just wants to flirt -- it\'s fun, Watcher -- it\'s an art form, something that can just make you happy. No?

also: flirting to flirt

it\'s like sex. sometimes the goal isn\'t orgasm. sometimes it\'s just for good sensations!

\"Even when sex is bad, it\'s still good.\"

That can be applied to flirting, although to a lesser degree. [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

Do you ever sleep?