(Re)Reopening Skin vs Hair vs Clothing case

<font color=green> Update : Well , as some of u have noticed , this post got deleted. Why ? For reasons
I respect and understand. Anyways , now its in harmony with the rules here so I reposted.
Unfortunatly the replys are gone forever , but I\'ll try my best to remember what was said.
Enjoy + Your input is needed again : </font color=green>

<font color=red>OK , I think this deserves more discussion/attention/testing than it got in the past. I think its interesting information for people who haven\'t had as much luck as others [or no luck at all with pheros]. My strong believe is that pheros MUST work for everybody , however because of the bacteria and phero signature being UNIQUE to each individual on this Forum it doesn\'t work the same way for everybody.
I also believe if people aided in testing we would have more successfull people. (... more on that later) See what I found crawling around the web / love-scent archives and older posts [It may be old news for long-term members , but it might help n00bs + unsuccessfull people] :

See what the makers of some of Love -Scents best working pheros suggest : </font color=red>


What are the best ways to apply pheromone products?
Wear the PPA on trips to the grocery store, the library, the bookstore, etc., not just out to the bar or club. Many of our customers have had limited success in crowded, smoky bars (where there is an overwhelming load of olifactory and vomeronasal stimulation present) but have experienced VERY good results when just wearing the preparation during their daily routine.

<font color=red> Try applying the preparation to your clothing instead of your skin. It won\'t stain, and just a drop on the inside of a shirt cuff should be enough to get results. Some individuals have very active bacteria on their skin which attracts and renders useless the pheromones. Depending on the biochemical make-up of your skin, this could be affecting your success and application to clothing could make a big difference. </font color=red>


Irish (Member)
Posted on 05/01/02 07:38 AM

Here\'s an experiment to help you decide.

Apply your usual phero/cologne mix to a piece of paper, and the same mix to the back of your hand. As time passes notice the difference in the paper smell versus your hand. After several hours you\'ll really see a difference,with the skin application gradually converting to other chemicals. The next morning the two smells will probably be completely different.

<font color=red> Pheros are steroids naturally produced by your skin, and they are bacteria food. Bacteria changes pheros into other chemicals (sometimes other pheros we are familiar with!), which obviously changes the scent. People have different bacteria colonies on their skin, and women and men also tend to have different bacteria varieties, so results are unpredictable. In general the bacteria metabolizes the pheros toward a more smelly mix. </font color=red>

You may like that. Or, if you like the mix to remain more stable (like the experiment with the paper application) then apply to clothing or hair. <font color=red> Hair happens to be an excellent broadcaster of pheros (your body hair is designed to distribute the pheros produced naturally in your apocrine glands - the hair and glands appear/activate at puberty). </font color=red>

I apply on clothing/hair/skin depending on the situation. I almost always apply my combo to my hand so I can easily check how my other skin applications are doing through the night, and refresh with cologne if necessary.
I also use antibacterial soap to try and keep the bacteria load down on my skin. <font color=red> Pheros are great bacteria food, and phero-wearers are feeding the bacteria on their skin like growing a culture in a dish! </font color=red> I read a study that showed antibacterials kept the underarm odor down cause it inhibited bacteria metabolism of steroids into smellier steroids and acids.


Posted by Irish (Member)
Posted on 05/02/02 08:08 AM

I couldn\'t really say which areas are worst for phero conversion, but I would speculate the following would be bad:

&gt;Moist areas like armpit/pubic/etc. would be the worst for promoting bacteria colonies. The stuff I was reading about human odor was written about the armpit, which I assume is worst case.

<font color=red> &gt;Areas where phero-eating bacteria naturally live on your body. (Again I\'m speculating) that the varieties of phero-converting germs would tend to thrive where your body naturally produces the most phero steroids. This would be where the apocrine scent glands are concentrated: armpit, pubic, chest/belly/navel, around the mouth, eyelids, outer ear, and anywhere heavy body hair is produced. </font color=red>

Anywhere else is probably less severe. But it would also have to do with gender (women and men tend toward different types of skin bacteria) and individual differences.

<font color=red> Experience has taught me that even on my hand, freshly scrubbed with germkiller, that pheros convert after a few hours. Apparently the bacteria get pretty deep in the pores and you can\'t really exterminate them - and when you splash on their favorite food (pheros) they go wild. </font color=red>


The whole subject about phero-conversion is kinda weird/fascinating. <font color=red> Our scent (apocrine) glands activate at puberty when body hair appears, and the hairs are wicks to help broadcast the pheros produced by the glands. But the secretions interact with individual skin bacteria to produce different blends of scent on each of us. </font color=red>


<font color=blue> So just as I got convinced hair application would be the best choice I came across the following posts : </font color=blue>

Posted by truth_II (Phero Enthusiast)
Posted on 06/24/02 06:13 PM

I\'m starting to experiment hair application. I remember someone saying that after applying pheros to his hair for extended period of time, <font color=red> his hair changed in quality. </font color=red> If anyone remembers that post, what was the final thought?

Any other comments about hair application?

Subject Re: Hair application [re: truth_II] Reply
Posted by oscar (Phero Pro)
Posted on 06/24/02 06:21 PM
truth,

That was me. I did it repeatedly over a two or three week period. <font color=red> My hair became dried out when it is usually more prone to being oily. </font color=red> What I was using was A1. I now only do this occasionally when indicated by the iminent arrival of the \"red tide\".

Oscar

Edited by oscar (06/24/02 10:21 PM)

Subject Re: Hair application [re: oscar] Reply
Posted by TallCoolOne (Phero Enthusiast)
Posted on 06/24/02 06:32 PM

Hey Oscar;

Were you using an alcohol based phero solution when you applied to hair? And also how much were you applying?

I have never had a problem to my hair with daily application. But I use mainly drop or two of PI to sideburn hair up to the hair on side of head. And also I have oily hair as well. That may be a factor. But I have applied alcohol base mixtures daily as well, without any noticable difference.

<font color=red> But when I used a non phero product in my hair that contained allot of alcohol, it turned my hair very dry and funky looking. </font color=red>

TCO

Lifes a Gamble, So Roll the Dice and Take a Chance.

Subject Re: Hair application [re: truth_II] Reply
Posted by truth_II (Phero Enthusiast)
Posted on 06/24/02 06:57 PM

Oh, right now, I\'m mixing a drop into my hair gel, and then applying the mix.

So, do you find hair application effective? How does it compare to clothing and skin application?

Subject Re: Hair application [re: truth_II] Reply
Posted by oscar (Phero Pro)
Posted on 06/24/02 07:27 PM

TCO and truth,

That\'s what I do too. I use a very small glob of gel, about the size of a pea, spread it in the palm of my hand then add a drop of straight A1 to it and mix. Massage well into wet hair and comb.
I\'ve used P10 this way as well. <font color=red> One drop goes a long way! </font color=red>

Oscar

Subject Re: Hair application [re: oscar] Reply
Posted by truth_II (Phero Enthusiast)
Posted on 06/24/02 07:50 PM

What about cover scent? I\'ve actually been mixing a drop pre-diluted with cologne. I assume my hair gel can\'t provide enough of a cover scent.

I heard that hair application really radiates. <font color=red> It would seem to make sense, since the pheros are spread over a very large surface area (much larger than any flat surface). However, hair is cooler than skin. </font color=red>

Also, would -nol and -A1 applied to hair be more resistant to conversion than on skin?

Subject Re: Hair application [re: truth_II] Reply
Posted by truth_II (Phero Enthusiast)
Posted on 06/26/02 12:18 AM

I tried mixing a drop of SOE into my hair gel today. First few hours, I smelled almost nothing. By the late afternoon, I got the same rancid smell that I normally get when I apply it to my arms. <font color=red> So, whatever conversion occurs on skin must be happening on my hair as well. </font color=red>

[b] <font color=blue> So what does that tell me ?

Hair application is better than skin application.

However its still not the best application point because :
-My hair became dried out when it is usually more prone to being oily
-So, whatever conversion occurs on skin must be happening on my hair as well
-But when I used a non phero product in my hair that contained allot of alcohol, it turned my hair very dry and funky looking
-hair is cooler than skin

Advantages over skin :
-I heard that hair application really radiates. It would seem to make sense, since the pheros are spread over a very large surface area (much larger than any flat surface.


Ok now to my observation of all these topics (Input is very welcome + needed. Correct + critsize me or add quality info if available] :

Application areas :

Judging from what I read , about 90% of love-scent users [sucessfull or unsuccessfull] prefer skin application ! For obvious reasons :
-skin is warm/hot. Pheromones are more likely to get airborne and spread around opposed to using them on cold surfaces. [Is there any info on how much they depend on heat to become airborne ? Is there a optimum tempreture ?]
-skin contains your own pheros /phero signature , so people expect/suggest to get better results if their mones mix with added mones. [However nobody knows if thats advantage - We do know it can be disadvantage (clint eastwood/lone wolf signature) thus f.u.c.k.i.n.g. up ur mixes.
-Skin cannot be oil-stained (though sometimes people experience rashes) and pheros can be washed of easily with soap [while pheros on clothing sometimes survive through washing]

Disadvantages ? There are obviously many (and in my opinion they outweigh the advantages) :

-skin bacteria is unique to each person !
-Some individuals have very active bacteria on their skin which attracts and renders useless the pheromones. Depending on the biochemical make-up of your skin, this could be affecting your success
-People have different bacteria colonies on their skin, and women and men also tend to have different bacteria varieties, so results are unpredictable.

= ----------&gt; this pretty much kills the idea of sharing \"what has worked for me\" with other people , because you obviously absolutely can not expect pheros that worked for you/on your skin to work on other peoples skin.
-the conversion rates (speed at wich for example -nol breaks down to -none) differ from person to person
= You can never expect a MiX to be stable if applied on skin + u can never expect it to work the same way on others !
-Because of the phero breakdown pheros are said to last from - 4-6 hours (this depends on the individual too) , loosing their potency with every minute + breaking down changing into something nobody can be sure of. I find this to be highly unsatisfactorily. I want my pheros to last longer than few hours. I dont want to worry about reapplication (and the od risk). I want my phero release to be stable and the mix non changing atleast for the whole day !!!

Skin obviously can not do that for me !

On to the next : Hair !

While it has its advantages over skin application , its still not the perfect choice ( for the reasons mentioned above )[...somewhere [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/wink.gif[/img] ]

On to the next : Clothing

Well no bacteria on clothing , thats a big ol <font color=red>+ </font color=red>
[b] <font color=blue> -atleast now u can be sure its not the bacteria f.u.c.k.i.n.g it up for u. [Aaah don\'t be too happy though , there is still your unique phero signature that can ruin a bit - IT IS STILL BETTER than fighting against to enemys.]
-pheros last way longer and are much more stable on clothing, you can be sure the dispersion rate is the same through the whole day. [I read it lasts even longer than that. Many days on clothing + up to 100 dayz on simple paper]


Ok disadvantages of clothing :

-A bit colder than skin (but no big deal if next to skin, or in summer-time)
-Hey its my favourite dressed-2-kill-dress. DO I want nasty oil stains from oil based pheros ? No [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/frown.gif[/img]
-Do I want to be bothered with washing the damn thing many times to make sure all pheros are gone and no \"addingup\" or OD of pheros can occur ? NO [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/frown.gif[/img]

Hmm next to : Oh damn , next to what ? Nuttin much left???

What about combining the advantages while keeping the disadvantages low ?! I want something with no bacteria to .f.u.c.k. up my mixes , I want something that will be warm all the time to make sure the little pheros become airborne. I want something , that will not stain my precious clothing. I want to be able to apply my mixes on it. I want something flexible , that I can throw away and not worry about walkin around with a OD (incase I overdid the application)
Well what has all of the above qualities ? = handkerchief ! (as FullTiltedRed once mentioned)
Does it look good on my dress ? NO ! So what do we need ?

--------------------------&gt; Talismans ! (Little things u carry on u , like a necklace with a tiny piece of phero stained cloth attached to it - its next to your skin = its worm = pheros are airborne -the side with the pheros isn\'t touching your skin = no bacteria !)

This is just a thought , now I really need your help on what material to use to make sure it has these qualities :

-something that either looks good (necklace/wristband) or is stealthy (piece of cloth matching the color of ur dress attached next to dress , like near the neck , thus touching skin to get warm)
-something that gets warm easily
-something that doesn\'t absorb all of the applied pheros , by binding them inside its fibres. Cotton would do that , but cotton is also said to have lots of little holes in it so breathing is ensured.(We need more testing)

Ok now please don\'t be dissaponted by what I say next , but all of this its pretty much the sexstrap idea. To make things clear : Don\'t use/buy the strap. U don\'t want to run around like a big OD + it lacks all of the advantages that I mentioned above. Its plastic , its OD , its bullshit. But the idea behind it is very good , it just needs some tweaking.

I want the freedom to use my own drops/pheros [PI,Soe,AE) and apply them on my own custom made talismans , that sure have superior qualities to the strap/skin/hair.

So people plz think of something more , than necklace or stealthy piece of cloth. Maybe something really cheap ...that can be thrown away / or washed very easily to allow me a quick next-day application.

Btw to make sure you don\'t get me wrong :
I seem to belong to the lucky guys around here. I can smell most pheros on myself/bottles + other people. I had very good results from all application areas I mentioned. [strap (as some of u remember , skin + hair)
This only means bacteria on my skin + my natural phero signutare don\'t clash with the pheros I add.
However the conversion also happens on my skin + I als have experienced some nasty OD\'s with circles of empty space around me in crowded clubs. These evening were ruined for me , because I couldn\'t wash out the pheros in a sink or something. But if I had a talisman I could have thrown it away and popped up a new one.
I also wantto take the advantage of the -nol stability on cloth and the more stable dispersion of pheros ! So DU you !



Whoa now I\'m really tired [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/wink.gif[/img] Anyways I think it was worth the effort any hopefully will help others.

Post deleted by Phantom

Post deleted by TBiRD

Actually I had to stop applying pheromones directly to my skin because it would give me a really bad rash (on neck, chest, arms) now I apply them to hair and eyebrows and behind ears (applying behind ears doesnt seem to cause irritation) Actually I was lucky to have this problem because now I get a lot more hits than before plus the radius where the phero\'s spread is much larger and seems to get attention from girls that are a fair distance away.

good: you are already taking advantage of the hairs \"larger spread radius\" vs skin.
Keep in mind , that there is still bacteria on your hair and as Oskar has observed conversion + phero breakdown still happens there. You might want to consider the talisman way.
However if your hair application gets you lots of hits : \"don\'t change a running system\". (contrary to that , I learned from Whitehall : If it ain\'t broke , make it better ! )

Speaking of Whitehall , in his former replys he suggested using natural fbres such as cotton or wool for the talisman purpose.

Another guy had the great idea to simply take a 100% cotton t-shirt and cut it into little square inch pieces + use this as the phero-talisman.

Sexyreadhead theorized , that applying pheros on clothing , might focus a girls attention on the clothes instead of on the man who wears them. I have to second that though.

I had a few thoughts deleted too, so here\'s a directionless and rambling second iteration...

High surface area vs. low, warm spot vs. cool -- quick dispersion isn\'t everything. Sometimes you might want it to last longer at lower saturation levels, and intentionally choose cool &amp; low surface area. So I wouldn\'t say that any of these choices are \"right\" or \"wrong.\"

Skin: sounds like we can\'t make any rule about this at all, since every individual will have a bit different skin chemistry &amp; bacteria. Even on one individual, the results could vary based on mix of pheromones and relatively temporary conditions like mood, or what one is wearing (black leather plus -none might be a bit much). -nol to -none conversion for example might be good one day and bad another. Happy thing that most of us don\'t mind a little risk-taking!

After reading some of the women\'s posts about how applying pheromone products to themselves got them primed and ready to go, I also reconsidered the Realm approach -- putting pheromones on yourself to get *you* feeling right, rather than to affect other people. If you\'re feeling randy and ready for action, might this not increase your chances, both by changing your behavior and by causing you to send out all sorts of signals of your own? The look in a guy\'s eyes that FTR refers to, for example? (It\'s an even easier conclusion if we\'re looking at it the other way around, brings to mind an old joke about a book on picking up guys which is 1 page long.) If copulins raise a guy\'s testosterone level (I suspect they raise women\'s T level as well), he\'s going to start producing more pheromones himself, I\'d think.

Since copulins seem to work quite well on women (per my trials as well as anecdotal evidence on these boards), and women wearing -none and -rone seem to get a lot of hits from guys, I\'m starting to think that it may not matter in some contexts who is wearing what. I used to think it kind of weird when guys would say that they wore some copulins, but not any more. I think that just having some of the more sexual pheromones in the environment of a couple is sufficient, and that placement isn\'t too critical. If I were to hang out with my SO, with PPA/w on me and NPA on her (instead of the other way around), we\'d still both get plenty of exposure, right? Or even if they were applied to the furniture or whatever...

Some time when you have a willing test subject (of the gender you prefer), try applying a TINY bit of pheromones to somewhere like their upper lip. I\'ve found this to be extremely effective (i.e. my test subject started acting like an animal in heat within half an hour), and talk about making a bottle last a while... ! Maybe try a dab on your pillowcase next time you have a hot date? A smidge more on your blindfold?

Anyway, that\'s kind of the direction I\'m going, looking at pheromone use more wholistically, and tossing out preconceptions. There are a lot of different ways you can get results, so I suggest thinking over the circumstances and doing whatever works, even if it\'s a little out of the ordinary.

i considered the copllins thing too raising T levels, i.e. just putting under nose. However, what everyone says is that it still upsets women, so i don\'t think it is benefiical.

I put some stuff under my nose to help dictate my mood. SOE perks me up, makes me friendlier, and then none (npa/ae) can give me the alpha male feeling. Still, i would not use anything seperately, except maybe AE, but i don\'t think that has anuf nol. Too much none makes me too serious and too alpha male, too much nol makes me to unserious and too goofy.

Copulins raise my testerone levels alot. Every now and then, I like to take a bit of my ew and cologne mixture that i have, spray it on a handkerchief and take a whiff of it...it literally sends my testosterone levels flying...like right away too..

how quickly does it come down?

seems to last a couple of hours at least...

&gt; i considered the copllins thing too raising T levels, i.e. just putting under
&gt; nose. However, what everyone says is that it still upsets women, so i
&gt; don\'t think it is benefiical.

May depend on the woman or time of month, but I tried a teensy dab of n/PPA/w (3L:1C) on a female subject\'s upper lip, and in half an hour she was on her hands and knees, demanding me NOW, and ROUGH! Repeated a different time, same result. Your mileage may vary, but unless you have a weak heart or need to catch up on your sleep, this is probably not the kind of \"upset\" you\'re worrying about. No way should it bother most women if it\'s under your nose instead of hers.

u notice females reacting to your raised T levels?

very much so..ive alwyas maintained and have stated a couple of times in this forum that nothing sold here brings me the kind of hits I get when my test levels are very high ...I guess you just disperse all kinds of natural pheros (other than the ones we know about)when you test levels are high

TBiRD,

I\'ve applied pheros just about everywhere imaginable, but one of my favorite application strategies is a clothes and skin combination that can be found on this thread from the archives:

http://www.server2.love-scent.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&amp;Board=UBB4&amp;Number=7328&a mp;fpart=1&amp;PHPSESSID=

Oskar [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/wink.gif[/img]

\"However if your hair application gets you lots of hits : \"don\'t change a running system\". (contrary to that , I learned from Whitehall : If it ain\'t broke , make it better ! )

Speaking of Whitehall , in his former replys he suggested using natural fbres such as cotton or wool for the talisman purpose.\"

That wasn\'t Whitehall, that was Watcher.

\"If it ain\'t broke , make it better !\" is kinda bad advice, IMHO

Thx Oscar


Thx CptKipling for putting things right.


Question to all :

Is there something that absolutely destroys pheros ? Maybe something , that would bind them like Febreze does with \"smelly things\".