View Full Version : 2nd-graders caught in murder plot?!
Sexyredhead
03-18-2004, 06:58 PM
I really don\'t think they totally realize what they were planning to do, but still.
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif
Three Boys
Arrested in Plot to Shoot Third Grader
Thursday, March 18, 2004
FORSYTH, Mont.: Two second-grade boys and
an 11-year-old schoolmate were arrested after they buried a loaded handgun in a playground sandbox and plotted to
shoot and stab a third-grade girl during recess, authorities said Thursday.
Sheriff Tim Fulton said the
boys intended to harm the young girl because she had teased two of them.
The plot included a .22-caliber
revolver and a boxently brought the weapons from home to school on Wednesday morning, prosecutor Michael Hayworth
said. The intent was to assault the girl over the recess hour that day, he said.
\"You think about what could
have happened. It could have been ugly,\" said Brenda Stabelfeldt, who has a daughter in the fifth grade and went
to the school over the lunch hour Thursday to give the girl a hug.
Fulton said classmate of the two younger
boys, both 8, was the one who alerted the school of the plot.
\"I need to commend that young man for such a
brave act,\" the sheriff said. \"He saved the lives of who knows how many people.\"
The boys were identified
in court records as Klint Cook and Levi Strait, both second-graders, and Blake Belgarde, a fifth-grader. They were
charged Thursday in juvenile court with conspiracy to commit assault with a weapon.
In Montana (search), the
names of juvenile suspects are public if the crimes they are accused of committing are felonies in adult court.
Forsyth (search) is about 100 miles east of (search). The school has about 200 students in kindergarten through
the sixth grade.
\"Needless to say, it is a frightening experience for a community and our schools,\"
Superintendent Dave Shreeve said. \"We believe it\'s an isolated incident but it does bring into reality that
this can happen in any place at any time.\"
Sagacious1420
03-18-2004, 08:06 PM
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif
bundyburger
03-19-2004, 05:20 AM
The 2nd graders, yeah sure, they may not understand what they were doing. The brain, I thought, was
fully developed by 11 or 12 years old and would know right from wrong and the consequences of what was about to
happen.
Fricken scary anyway. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif
EXIT63
03-19-2004, 05:27 AM
Okay,
So how come the gun owning parents weren\'t arrested?
Sexyredhead
03-19-2004, 05:55 AM
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Okay,
So how come the gun owning
parents weren\'t arrested?
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
Do you think they should\'ve been?
belgareth
03-19-2004, 06:18 AM
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font
class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Okay,
So how come the gun owning parents weren\'t arrested?
<hr
/></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
Do you think they should\'ve been?
<hr /></blockquote><font
class=\"post\">
If the gun and ammunition was where a child could get a hold of it, YES!
I am not anti-gun
whatsoever and own several myself. However, there is a responsibility that goes with owning a firearm.
Elana
03-19-2004, 06:20 AM
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font
class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Okay,
So how come the gun owning parents weren\'t arrested?
<hr
/></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
Do you think they should\'ve been?
<hr /></blockquote><font
class=\"post\">
Heck yeah! If the child had access to the parents gun....lock em up
EXIT63
03-19-2004, 06:36 AM
It\'s happening again. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif
Elana
03-19-2004, 06:50 AM
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
It\'s happening again.
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
Come here Exit
and let me hold you. Don\'t be afraid. Bel has been feeling a bit under the weather and I am sure you two will go
back to butting heads any day now.
Sexyredhead
03-19-2004, 07:15 AM
What about the parents of the boy who brought the knife?
EXIT63
03-19-2004, 07:28 AM
Knives aren\'t registered weapons.
however, under the Exit 63 Parental Responsibility Act, I\'m sure we
could charge them with negligence. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
thingscouldwork
03-19-2004, 10:01 AM
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Heck yeah! If the child had access to
the parents gun....lock em up
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
True that! It\'s their
responsibility to keep their children (and their friends/foes /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif )
safe from their firearms!!
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font
class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Okay,
So
how come the gun owning parents weren\'t arrested?
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
Do you think
they should\'ve been?
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
Heck yeah! If the child had access to
the parents gun....lock em up
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
Agreed- -and I\'m a gun owner
and trained shooter, myself.
My father, like many people from Michigan, had an extensive gun collection. The
guns AND ammo were always kept locked up-- separately.
Prolly could also use some serious family therapy, for
those kids, and their parents.
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
The 2nd graders, yeah sure, they may not understand
what they were doing. The brain, I thought, was fully developed by 11 or 12 years old and would know right from
wrong and the consequences of what was about to happen.
Fricken scary anyway.
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
Well, in my
house, we were exposed to guns when we were tiny children-- and educated re: their potential harm. None of us would
have considered hurting anyone with one-- even had they not been kept locked up.
This
is quiete insane. At that age we had pocket knives maybe but we knew better than to attack others with them even
when I was mega pissed off with someone I´d have never dreamed of doing that
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif
Parents who give their kids easy access to weapons and don´t
manage to teach their kids right from wrong shouldn´t be allowed to own weapons fullstop. And those kids need a
good verbal blasting to get some decency drilled into their young sad minds.
DrSmellThis
03-19-2004, 12:11 PM
There\'s virtually always a lot going on with the parents, and siblings, when kids do that. I
agree that the parents should be held responsible.
Guns are hard to keep safe in homes with children. Kids
find keys, or someone forgets to lock something. If you have seriously emotionally disturbed kids, even if
they\'re apparently neither suicidal nor homicidal, owning guns is probably just a very bad idea, even
though we have a right to have them. Countless things could happen. I bet there were major warning signs years ago,
which makes the parents doubly responsible.
On the other hand, PET scans of the kid\'s brains would
probably be remarkable too. Major chemical imbalances are also likely. But this kind of disturbance doesn\'t just
appear suddenly some morning.
Everybody needs a ton of therapy (with somebody good, like me
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif) and/or psychiatric treatment. Child Protective Services need to
be heavily involved in home as well.
belgareth
03-19-2004, 12:29 PM
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font
class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
It\'s happening again. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif
<hr
/></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
Come here Exit and let me hold you. Don\'t be afraid. Bel has been
feeling a bit under the weather and I am sure you two will go back to butting heads any day now.
<hr
/></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
Ya\'all jes\' don\'t unerstan me, is all.
It\'s all about
freedom and the responsibilities that go with it. Nobody has the right to impose their will on another person but
each of us has an obligation to take full responsibilty for all of our actions or suffer the consequenses. The only
laws I accept are the ones that amount to not harming others.
belgareth
03-19-2004, 12:30 PM
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
What about the parents of the boy who brought the
knife?
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
Same thing. Aren\'t they responsible for the actions of
their child?
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Nobody has the right to impose their will on
another person but each of us has an obligation to take full responsibilty for all of our actions or suffer the
consequenses.
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
This is not true. Societies throughout history
have impossed the collective will over individual and rightly so.
We are partly in the predicument that we are in
now because of the mentality that we have \"no right to impose our will on someone else\". The philosophy behind
that is that there is no moral absolute and what is right for you may not be right for me. This philosophy is rotten
to the core. There are absolutes in this life and I have the right to impose my will to live on you anytime I want
to!
belgareth
03-19-2004, 01:10 PM
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font
class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Nobody has the right to impose their will on another person but each of us
has an obligation to take full responsibilty for all of our actions or suffer the consequenses.
<hr
/></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
This is not true. Societies throughout history have impossed the
collective will over individual and rightly so.
We are partly in the predicument that we are in now because of the
mentality that we have \"no right to impose our will on someone else\". The philosophy behind that is that there
is no moral absolute and what is right for you may not be right for me. This philosophy is rotten to the core.
There are absolutes in this life and I have the right to impose my will to live on you anytime I want to!
<hr
/></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
You\'ve got it backwards. I have no right to interfere with your right
to live. Just because it has always been done that way does not make it right. If that were the case we\'d all be
living in trees or caves or performing human sacrifices. That is one of the weakest arguments you can offer! We are
in large part in the predicament we are in because society imposses it\'s will on the individual rather than teach
a person to make good choices. Society\'s rules take away the reponsibility for ones actions, substituting it for
conforming to the rules of that society. Look at all the horrors we have inflicted on our fellow man as a result;
Witch burnings, pogroms, the crusades, the inquisistions, bigotry and hatred, corporate rip-offs and on and on.
Those are all products of your status quo.
tallmacky
03-19-2004, 01:36 PM
Why do people even own guns? I mean if you like to hunt animals I guess that is an ok reason, but wouldn\'t you
have more fun hunting a deer with a spear, it kind of evens out the playing field a bit more.
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif I think that right is a bit overrated....No matter how safe you are
with that, if you had kids in your house, you still run a small risk that you have to accept and everyone in your
house has to accept.
Let\'s face it, we can talk about the parents until we are blue in the face, and that
is probably a \'cause of the situation, but some kids are just worse than other kids. Basically some kids are just
EVIL. In this world we have those that are smarter, quicker, more prone to violence, sexual abuse, serial killing,
and these fundementals apply to children. Not all children are sweet as can be, and not all of them act bad because
their parents weren\'t there to slap their hand, though that is a large percentage of it usually.
So watch
out for Chucky. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
So watch out for Chucky.
<hr
/></blockquote><font class=\"post\"> huh what he´s here? You mean you saw....
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
belgareth
03-19-2004, 01:49 PM
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Why do people even own guns? I mean if you like to
hunt animals I guess that is an ok reason, but wouldn\'t you have more fun hunting a deer with a spear, it kind of
evens out the playing field a bit more. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif I think that right is a bit
overrated....No matter how safe you are with that, if you had kids in your house, you still run a small risk that
you have to accept and everyone in your house has to accept.
Let\'s face it, we can talk about the parents
until we are blue in the face, and that is probably a \'cause of the situation, but some kids are just worse than
other kids. Basically some kids are just EVIL. In this world we have those that are smarter, quicker, more prone to
violence, sexual abuse, serial killing, and these fundementals apply to children. Not all children are sweet as can
be, and not all of them act bad because their parents weren\'t there to slap their hand, though that is a large
percentage of it usually.
So watch out for Chucky. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
Is there some reason a person should not be allowed to own a
gun? To protect them from themselves? Look up some crime rate statistics. A good set are the before and after ones
when Florida became a concealed carry state. I hate to sound militant but do you really believe that the government,
who is so weak in punishing criminals is going to protect me and my family? Even despite that, why shouldn\'t any
normal, responsible person be able to own a gun? If nothing else, accurate shooting is a hard won skill that many
are proud to have.
Reality is that more people are killed by car accidents, incompetent doctors and drunk
drivers than are even injured by non-criminal gun owners.
Many
people that own guns are not normal and responsible though, that´s the main problem I think TM was thinking of.
tallmacky
03-19-2004, 01:56 PM
I guess I strayed away from my point, my point was that some children are just little damn Demons from hell.
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Sure you can own a gun why not, any laws prohibiting are
impossible people will still do what people do, or go underground with it, discussing whether people should of
shouldn\'t almost does not make sense as taking a gun away from a gun owner is like snatching a 20 from a
prostitute. I have not personally felt the need to pack firepower, I know the issue \"protecting my family\" is
also brought up, but I don\'t know how the wild west is out there in Texas. If I was living in a tougher crime
rate enduced place, then yes. I wasn\'t specifically saying that one should not own a gun, I said if you keep guns
in your house no matter how safe you are you will always run that small possiblity of someone getting hurt or
getting ahold of the gun(s)....not that it is likely as you said with your statisics.
tallmacky
03-19-2004, 01:59 PM
Most people who own guns generally distrust the government....I just don\'t see as living in America the great
need of protecting your family especially those who live in suburbs.
I do not know what you have been through,
have you ever been attacked by someone, or at a point where you needed a gun for self defense....I also think people
like the power of having a gun, they get off to it, and they love shooting it like blowing a load, and there is no
way to ever know if everyone who has a gain is a responsible up standing member of society.
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
I guess I strayed away from my point, my point was
that some children are just little damn Demons from hell.
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\"> yeah.
There´s traits we have from birth and others we pick up as we get older. Some people are just cool and others are
just )§&$&/$&(. Kids who fuke up can still turn out okay I guess
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif but not if they start killing in the 2nd grade
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif
DrSmellThis
03-19-2004, 02:09 PM
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Why do people even own guns? I mean if
you like to hunt animals I guess that is an ok reason, but wouldn\'t you have more fun hunting a deer with a
spear, it kind of evens out the playing field a bit more. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif I think
that right is a bit overrated....No matter how safe you are with that, if you had kids in your house, you still run
a small risk that you have to accept and everyone in your house has to accept.
Let\'s face it, we can talk
about the parents until we are blue in the face, and that is probably a \'cause of the situation, but some kids
are just worse than other kids. Basically some kids are just EVIL. In this world we have those that are smarter,
quicker, more prone to violence, sexual abuse, serial killing, and these fundementals apply to children. Not all
children are sweet as can be, and not all of them act bad because their parents weren\'t there to slap their hand,
though that is a large percentage of it usually.
So watch out for Chucky.
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
Kids
aren\'t evil, IMO, but they can be brain diseased to where parents can\'t make everything all better (violence
often = frontal, temporal lobe problems). I\'ve never seen anything approaching an \"evil kid\" as a child
psychologist, and I\'ve worked with tons of \"very bad\" ones over the years. The ones that looked the worst
often ended up being my favorites to work with.
belgareth
03-19-2004, 02:10 PM
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Many people that own guns are not normal and
responsible though, that´s the main problem I think TM was thinking of.
<hr /></blockquote><font
class=\"post\">
Again, the same can be applied to car owners, bat owners, knife owners etc. In every case, the
majority are responsible. If you want to be picky about it, I could do a pretty complete job on somebody with my
walking stick and it isn\'t registered either. Picking at gun ownership is nonsense.
tallmacky
03-19-2004, 02:11 PM
Don\'t turn around on them Dr.smellthis they may grab a pencil and create a bunch of lead holes in your back,
then duct tape your mouth shut and throw you into a bathtub where they pour soap all over you.....
Do you see the
danger? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif
belgareth
03-19-2004, 02:12 PM
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Most people who own guns generally distrust the
government....I just don\'t see as living in America the great need of protecting your family especially those who
live in suburbs.
I do not know what you have been through, have you ever been attacked by someone, or at a point
where you needed a gun for self defense....I also think people like the power of having a gun, they get off to it,
and they love shooting it like blowing a load, and there is no way to ever know if everyone who has a gain is a
responsible up standing member of society. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
<hr
/></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
You go in for the standard anti-gun BS to, huh? You have facts to back
that up?
tallmacky
03-19-2004, 02:14 PM
Bel.....I happen to have owned a bee bee gun...It was C02 powered....So I happen to be pretty bad ass too.
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif
I don\'t care much about guns, I haven\'t been shot in
the balls yet, so I am happy, excuse my \"debate\" it was me just drveling and partially talking to
myself.
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif
DrSmellThis
03-19-2004, 02:15 PM
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Don\'t turn around on them
Dr.smellthis they may grab a pencil and create a bunch of lead holes in your back, then duct tape your mouth shut
and throw you into a bathtub where they pour soap all over you.....
Do you see the danger?
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
Been there,
done that.
Elana
03-19-2004, 02:15 PM
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Don\'t turn around on them Dr.smellthis they may
grab a pencil and create a bunch of lead holes in your back, then duct tape your mouth shut and throw you into a
bathtub where they pour soap all over you.....
Do you see the danger?
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
LMAO
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
tallmacky
03-19-2004, 02:18 PM
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Kids aren\'t evil, IMO, but they can be brain
diseased to where parents can\'t make everything all better (violence often = frontal, temporal lobe problems)
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
Well that is my point. We consider serial killers evil, and
they have frontal cortex problems....and a whole laundry list of other things....By evil I did not mean soul, but
brain which is our temporary soul...So if a kid lacks any sort of remorse (unable to register the emotion) for
example and enjoys pulling out his little brothers hair, and choking cats, then I consider him \"evil\".
DrSmellThis
03-19-2004, 02:32 PM
OK, I get where you\'re coming from. The difference is you treat brain damaged, and see at as another
yourself, but give up on evil, and see it as separate.
tallmacky
03-19-2004, 02:40 PM
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
OK, I get where you\'re coming from. The
difference is you treat brain damaged, and see at as another yourself, but give up on evil, and see it as separate.
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
Is treating brain damage possible? I know no matter what a child
molestor says, I wouldn\'t trust him or take him on his word, same goes for many mental dysfuntions.
I am
giving up on Evil, I just miss the children of the corn is all. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif
tallmacky
03-19-2004, 02:50 PM
Today\'s love-scent topics? Guns and evil kids. (\"http://www.shechem.org/picad/6.jpg\")
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Pancho1188
03-19-2004, 02:53 PM
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font
class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Why do people even own guns? I mean if you like to hunt animals I guess that
is an ok reason, but wouldn\'t you have more fun hunting a deer with a spear, it kind of evens out the playing
field a bit more. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif I think that right is a bit overrated....No
matter how safe you are with that, if you had kids in your house, you still run a small risk that you have to accept
and everyone in your house has to accept.
Let\'s face it, we can talk about the parents until we are blue in
the face, and that is probably a \'cause of the situation, but some kids are just worse than other kids. Basically
some kids are just EVIL. In this world we have those that are smarter, quicker, more prone to violence, sexual
abuse, serial killing, and these fundementals apply to children. Not all children are sweet as can be, and not all
of them act bad because their parents weren\'t there to slap their hand, though that is a large percentage of it
usually.
So watch out for Chucky. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif
<hr
/></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
Kids aren\'t evil, IMO, but they can be brain diseased to where parents
can\'t make everything all better (violence often = frontal, temporal lobe problems). I\'ve never seen anything
approaching an \"evil kid\" as a child psychologist, and I\'ve worked with tons of \"very bad\" ones over the
years. The ones that looked the worst often ended up being my favorites to work with.
<hr /></blockquote><font
class=\"post\">
I don\'t want to get into semantics (I\'ve always wanted to say that
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif), but if children can\'t be evil, then by definition adults
have a hell of a time being evil as well. If you think about it, adults are only a product of growing up as
children. Adults are held accountable because they supposedly understand or should understand the consequences of
their actions as well as the moral fibers that hold together society while children do not have the cognitive
capacity to see past their own existence or the near future due to the stages of cognitive development. However, if
a \"damaged\" child is not evil because he doesn\'t understand the above concepts, then if he grows older and
still has not been taught such moral ideas (the value of human life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness), how can he
be considered evil now when he\'s never been led in the \"right direction\"? The only way a person could be
\'evil\' is if they grew up as a normal, law-abiding child and somehow as an adult understood right and wrong,
believed in the rules, and committed violent, destructive acts despite all of this.
Or they\'re all just really
messed up. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif
I\'m just giving you a hard time, don\'t listen
to me. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif
Seriously, though, that being a hole in the world of
logic, it\'s a moral dilemma when you can call a grown person \'evil\' when they might just be a product of
witnessing evil their whole lives to the point that that\'s all they know. It\'s sad when you think about it
because I could be a mean, hurtful, cold-blooded killer as an adult if that\'s all I knew as a child...and that
would make me an evil human being.
Ouch...philosophical overload...must go lie down...
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
tallmacky
03-19-2004, 02:58 PM
Yes I know Pancho, some kids are just evil, and are well aware of their actions. The whole \"What about the kids,
or how will the kids handle this.\" stuff in America is way over done. I still feel if a 13, 14, 15 year old or
even younger who has done something criminal say like murder, they deserve life in jail or death (debatable
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif). Kids are babied and age is usually used as a exploitation.
Jeffery Dahmer was cutting up animals when he was younger, and yes he is evil and was \"f$cked up\"
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
tallmacky
03-19-2004, 02:59 PM
I think people are watching too much \"Children are miracles and our future\" \"they do no wrong!\" Oprah crap.
Sure they are, but this total focus on children has gone a bit too far to a point of oversatuation.
Pancho1188
03-19-2004, 03:02 PM
You\'re on a boat with your mother, your spouse, and your baby. The boat is sinking, and you only
have the strength to take one back to shore. The others are unable to make it on their own, and you are the only
one who can save one of them. Who do you save?
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
You\'re on a boat with your mother, your spouse,
and your baby. The boat is sinking, and you only have the strength to take one back to shore. The others are unable
to make it on their own, and you are the only one who can save one of them. Who do you save?
<hr
/></blockquote><font class=\"post\"> pancho, that reminds me of the announcements some cabin crews came up with to
get the passengers attention at during the safety routine. Part of it was something like (in case of emergency) `If
you have a child with you, do this and that and if you have more than one child with you on board decide which one
you like better and keep in mind that the older one tends to move out first´
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
DrSmellThis
03-19-2004, 03:35 PM
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
I think people are watching too much
\"Children are miracles and our future\" \"they do no wrong!\" Oprah crap. Sure they are, but this total focus
on children has gone a bit too far to a point of oversatuation.
<hr /></blockquote><font
class=\"post\">
What TV shows do you watch, Tallmacky?
tallmacky
03-19-2004, 03:54 PM
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
What TV shows do you watch, Tallmacky?
<hr
/></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
Ummm well my favorite show is \"Real Time with Bill Maher (HBO)\"
The guy thinks just the way I do...rarely have I disagreed with anything he has said....ahhh a mentor and he is
Godlike! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif Someone here also got me addicted to Scrubs which is
perfection.../ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif Discovery channel, I can even stomach Bill
O\'reilly who has a few good points.....and Hookers on the point. Shows the pimp and hoe relationship....good for
laughs...\"Where my money?\"
What do you watch Dr.? Have you ever watched scramble softcore porn on cable?
Could time to work out the natural smegma as lube! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif You must be a
Discovery Channel fan too eh?
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Why do people even own guns? I mean if you like to
hunt animals I guess that is an ok reason, but wouldn\'t you have more fun hunting a deer with a spear, it kind of
evens out the playing field a bit more. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif I think that right is a bit
overrated....No matter how safe you are with that, if you had kids in your house, you still run a small risk that
you have to accept and everyone in your house has to accept.
Let\'s face it, we can talk about the parents
until we are blue in the face, and that is probably a \'cause of the situation, but some kids are just worse than
other kids. Basically some kids are just EVIL. In this world we have those that are smarter, quicker, more prone to
violence, sexual abuse, serial killing, and these fundementals apply to children. Not all children are sweet as can
be, and not all of them act bad because their parents weren\'t there to slap their hand, though that is a large
percentage of it usually.
So watch out for Chucky. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif
<hr
/></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
It\'s true that some kids are evil. I once had, on my caseload, a 13
year old serial rapist. Sociopathic Personality Disorder-- no ability to empathize, whatever. Thought to be innate.
However, adults still need to keep the guns and ammo locked up.
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font
class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Why do people
even own guns? I mean if you like to hunt animals I guess that is an ok reason, but wouldn\'t you have more fun
hunting a deer with a spear, it kind of evens out the playing field a bit more.
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif I think that right is a bit overrated....No matter how safe you are
with that, if you had kids in your house, you still run a small risk that you have to accept and everyone in your
house has to accept.
Let\'s face it, we can talk about the parents until we are blue in the face, and that is
probably a \'cause of the situation, but some kids are just worse than other kids. Basically some kids are just
EVIL. In this world we have those that are smarter, quicker, more prone to violence, sexual abuse, serial killing,
and these fundementals apply to children. Not all children are sweet as can be, and not all of them act bad because
their parents weren\'t there to slap their hand, though that is a large percentage of it usually.
So watch out
for Chucky. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif
<hr /></blockquote><font
class=\"post\">
Kids aren\'t evil, IMO, but they can be brain diseased to where parents can\'t make
everything all better (violence often = frontal, temporal lobe problems). I\'ve never seen anything approaching an
\"evil kid\" as a child psychologist, and I\'ve worked with tons of \"very bad\" ones over the years. The ones
that looked the worst often ended up being my favorites to work with.
<hr /></blockquote><font
class=\"post\">
I don\'t want to get into semantics (I\'ve always wanted to say that
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif), but if children can\'t be evil, then by definition adults
have a hell of a time being evil as well. If you think about it, adults are only a product of growing up as
children. Adults are held accountable because they supposedly understand or should understand the consequences of
their actions as well as the moral fibers that hold together society while children do not have the cognitive
capacity to see past their own existence or the near future due to the stages of cognitive development. However, if
a \"damaged\" child is not evil because he doesn\'t understand the above concepts, then if he grows older and
still has not been taught such moral ideas (the value of human life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness), how can he
be considered evil now when he\'s never been led in the \"right direction\"? The only way a person could be
\'evil\' is if they grew up as a normal, law-abiding child and somehow as an adult understood right and wrong,
believed in the rules, and committed violent, destructive acts despite all of this.
Or they\'re all just really
messed up. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif
I\'m just giving you a hard time, don\'t listen
to me. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif
Seriously, though, that being a hole in the world of
logic, it\'s a moral dilemma when you can call a grown person \'evil\' when they might just be a product of
witnessing evil their whole lives to the point that that\'s all they know. It\'s sad when you think about it
because I could be a mean, hurtful, cold-blooded killer as an adult if that\'s all I knew as a child...and that
would make me an evil human being.
Ouch...philosophical overload...must go lie down...
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
There are
also bad people that have never been abused, and good people who have been abused badly. It\'s a mystery.
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Yes I know Pancho, some kids are just evil, and are
well aware of their actions. The whole \"What about the kids, or how will the kids handle this.\" stuff in America
is way over done. I still feel if a 13, 14, 15 year old or even younger who has done something criminal say like
murder, they deserve life in jail or death (debatable /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif). Kids are
babied and age is usually used as a exploitation. Jeffery Dahmer was cutting up animals when he was younger, and yes
he is evil and was \"f$cked up\" /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
<hr /></blockquote><font
class=\"post\">
If the dog can learn that it may not bite people, why can\'t a child learn that s/he may not
do harm?
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font
class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Why do people even own guns? I mean if you like to hunt animals I guess that
is an ok reason, but wouldn\'t you have more fun hunting a deer with a spear, it kind of evens out the playing
field a bit more. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif I think that right is a bit overrated....No
matter how safe you are with that, if you had kids in your house, you still run a small risk that you have to accept
and everyone in your house has to accept.
Let\'s face it, we can talk about the parents until we are blue in
the face, and that is probably a \'cause of the situation, but some kids are just worse than other kids. Basically
some kids are just EVIL. In this world we have those that are smarter, quicker, more prone to violence, sexual
abuse, serial killing, and these fundementals apply to children. Not all children are sweet as can be, and not all
of them act bad because their parents weren\'t there to slap their hand, though that is a large percentage of it
usually.
So watch out for Chucky. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif
<hr
/></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
Is there some reason a person should not be allowed to own a gun? To
protect them from themselves? Look up some crime rate statistics. A good set are the before and after ones when
Florida became a concealed carry state. I hate to sound militant but do you really believe that the government, who
is so weak in punishing criminals is going to protect me and my family? Even despite that, why shouldn\'t any
normal, responsible person be able to own a gun? If nothing else, accurate shooting is a hard won skill that many
are proud to have.
Reality is that more people are killed by car accidents, incompetent doctors and drunk drivers
than are even injured by non-criminal gun owners.
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
I own guns,
and see the value of it. Where I was raised, violent crime was comparatively low-- particularly home invasions.
Because any home that a criminal might choose to invade was likely to have a shooter in residence.
People also
didn\'t shoot up McDonalds, because chances are that at least one of the patrons was likely to have a concealed
weapons permit.
Now this might get me flamed, but... I think that concealed weapons permits should be available
to people who:
1) Have no criminal record,
2) Have demonstrated marksmanship at an \"expert\" level on the
firing range,
3) Have passed a NRA endorsed smallarms safety course, and
4) Have passed written and practical
smallarms safety tests.
BTW-- I own guns, but do not hunt. The only things that I have ever killed are many paper
targets. I also practice archery. The fun is in the development of marksmanship skills-- not in the harming of
something.
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font
class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Most people who own guns generally distrust the government....I just don\'t
see as living in America the great need of protecting your family especially those who live in suburbs.
I do not
know what you have been through, have you ever been attacked by someone, or at a point where you needed a gun for
self defense....I also think people like the power of having a gun, they get off to it, and they love shooting it
like blowing a load, and there is no way to ever know if everyone who has a gain is a responsible up standing member
of society. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
<hr /></blockquote><font
class=\"post\">
You go in for the standard anti-gun BS to, huh? You have facts to back that up?
<hr
/></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
Well, gun control is said to be tightest in WDC-- which is also one of the
highest areas for violent crime.
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Bel.....I happen to have owned a bee bee gun...It
was C02 powered....So I happen to be pretty bad ass too. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif
I
don\'t care much about guns, I haven\'t been shot in the balls yet, so I am happy, excuse my \"debate\" it was
me just drveling and partially talking to myself.
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif
<hr
/></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
ROFL!
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
This is quiete insane. At that age we had pocket
knives maybe but we knew better than to attack others with them even when I was mega pissed off with someone I´d
have never dreamed of doing that /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif
Parents who give their kids
easy access to weapons and don´t manage to teach their kids right from wrong shouldn´t be allowed to own weapons
fullstop. And those kids need a good verbal blasting to get some decency drilled into their young sad minds.
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
What she said.
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
There\'s virtually always a lot going on
with the parents, and siblings, when kids do that. I agree that the parents should be held responsible.
Guns are
hard to keep safe in homes with children. Kids find keys, or someone forgets to lock something. If you have
seriously emotionally disturbed kids, even if they\'re apparently neither suicidal nor homicidal, owning guns is
probably just a very bad idea, even though we have a right to have them. Countless things could happen. I bet
there were major warning signs years ago, which makes the parents doubly responsible.
On the other hand, PET
scans of the kid\'s brains would probably be remarkable too. Major chemical imbalances are also likely. But this
kind of disturbance doesn\'t just appear suddenly some morning.
Everybody needs a ton of therapy (with
somebody good, like me /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif) and/or psychiatric treatment. Child
Protective Services need to be heavily involved in home as well.
<hr /></blockquote><font
class=\"post\">
What he said.
belgareth
03-19-2004, 04:58 PM
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font
class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Why do people
even own guns? I mean if you like to hunt animals I guess that is an ok reason, but wouldn\'t you have more fun
hunting a deer with a spear, it kind of evens out the playing field a bit more.
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif I think that right is a bit overrated....No matter how safe you are
with that, if you had kids in your house, you still run a small risk that you have to accept and everyone in your
house has to accept.
Let\'s face it, we can talk about the parents until we are blue in the face, and that is
probably a \'cause of the situation, but some kids are just worse than other kids. Basically some kids are just
EVIL. In this world we have those that are smarter, quicker, more prone to violence, sexual abuse, serial killing,
and these fundementals apply to children. Not all children are sweet as can be, and not all of them act bad because
their parents weren\'t there to slap their hand, though that is a large percentage of it usually.
So watch out
for Chucky. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif
<hr /></blockquote><font
class=\"post\">
Is there some reason a person should not be allowed to own a gun? To protect them from
themselves? Look up some crime rate statistics. A good set are the before and after ones when Florida became a
concealed carry state. I hate to sound militant but do you really believe that the government, who is so weak in
punishing criminals is going to protect me and my family? Even despite that, why shouldn\'t any normal,
responsible person be able to own a gun? If nothing else, accurate shooting is a hard won skill that many are proud
to have.
Reality is that more people are killed by car accidents, incompetent doctors and drunk drivers than are
even injured by non-criminal gun owners.
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
I own guns, and see the
value of it. Where I was raised, violent crime was comparatively low-- particularly home invasions. Because any home
that a criminal might choose to invade was likely to have a shooter in residence.
People also didn\'t shoot up
McDonalds, because chances are that at least one of the patrons was likely to have a concealed weapons permit.
Now this might get me flamed, but... I think that concealed weapons permits should be available to people
who:
1) Have no criminal record,
2) Have demonstrated marksmanship at an \"expert\" level on the firing
range,
3) Have passed a NRA endorsed smallarms safety course, and
4) Have passed written and practical smallarms
safety tests.
BTW-- I own guns, but do not hunt. The only things that I have ever killed are many paper targets.
I also practice archery. The fun is in the development of marksmanship skills-- not in the harming of something.
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
Agreed! Emphatically
belgareth
03-19-2004, 05:04 PM
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font
class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Yes I know Pancho, some kids are just evil, and are well aware of their
actions. The whole \"What about the kids, or how will the kids handle this.\" stuff in America is way over done. I
still feel if a 13, 14, 15 year old or even younger who has done something criminal say like murder, they deserve
life in jail or death (debatable /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif). Kids are babied and age is
usually used as a exploitation. Jeffery Dahmer was cutting up animals when he was younger, and yes he is evil and
was \"f$cked up\" /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
<hr /></blockquote><font
class=\"post\">
If the dog can learn that it may not bite people, why can\'t a child learn that s/he may not
do harm?
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
That\'s in part because parents are so concerned with
being friends with their kids that they cannot be parents. When a dog bites or gets too aggressive, you let it
know-FIRMLY! When a kid bites or gets too aggressive you hear \"Oh, <Insert name here> be nice now.\" No
discipline or consequenses for their actions. then the parents can\'t figure out why they are intolerable
monsters. It\'s a way of showing your kids you love them. Set bounderies and help them learn to be a part of
society.
belgareth
03-19-2004, 05:04 PM
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font
class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Most people
who own guns generally distrust the government....I just don\'t see as living in America the great need of
protecting your family especially those who live in suburbs.
I do not know what you have been through, have you
ever been attacked by someone, or at a point where you needed a gun for self defense....I also think people like the
power of having a gun, they get off to it, and they love shooting it like blowing a load, and there is no way to
ever know if everyone who has a gain is a responsible up standing member of society.
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
You go in for
the standard anti-gun BS to, huh? You have facts to back that up?
<hr /></blockquote><font
class=\"post\">
Well, gun control is said to be tightest in WDC-- which is also one of the highest areas for
violent crime.
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
Gee, what a surprise.
thingscouldwork
03-19-2004, 05:17 PM
Anyone watch \"Bowling for Columbine\"?
I couldn\'t believe that you get shooter for OPENING AN
ACCOUNT IN A BANK!! First comment after receiving it:
\"Don\'t you think it\'s a little dangerous, handing
out guns in a bank??\" /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Anyway, I found it quite interesting
(and the cartoon-part is even funny to some extent!)...
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font
class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Yes I know
Pancho, some kids are just evil, and are well aware of their actions. The whole \"What about the kids, or how will
the kids handle this.\" stuff in America is way over done. I still feel if a 13, 14, 15 year old or even younger
who has done something criminal say like murder, they deserve life in jail or death (debatable
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif). Kids are babied and age is usually used as a exploitation.
Jeffery Dahmer was cutting up animals when he was younger, and yes he is evil and was \"f$cked up\"
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
If the dog can
learn that it may not bite people, why can\'t a child learn that s/he may not do harm?
<hr
/></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
That\'s in part because parents are so concerned with being friends with
their kids that they cannot be parents. When a dog bites or gets too aggressive, you let it know-FIRMLY! When a kid
bites or gets too aggressive you hear \"Oh, <Insert name here> be nice now.\" No discipline or consequenses
for their actions. then the parents can\'t figure out why they are intolerable monsters. It\'s a way of showing
your kids you love them. Set bounderies and help them learn to be a part of society.
<hr /></blockquote><font
class=\"post\">
What he said.
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font
class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr
/>
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Why do people even own guns? I mean if you like
to hunt animals I guess that is an ok reason, but wouldn\'t you have more fun hunting a deer with a spear, it kind
of evens out the playing field a bit more. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif I think that right is a
bit overrated....No matter how safe you are with that, if you had kids in your house, you still run a small risk
that you have to accept and everyone in your house has to accept.
Let\'s face it, we can talk about the parents
until we are blue in the face, and that is probably a \'cause of the situation, but some kids are just worse than
other kids. Basically some kids are just EVIL. In this world we have those that are smarter, quicker, more prone to
violence, sexual abuse, serial killing, and these fundementals apply to children. Not all children are sweet as can
be, and not all of them act bad because their parents weren\'t there to slap their hand, though that is a large
percentage of it usually.
So watch out for Chucky. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif
<hr
/></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
Is there some reason a person should not be allowed to own a gun? To
protect them from themselves? Look up some crime rate statistics. A good set are the before and after ones when
Florida became a concealed carry state. I hate to sound militant but do you really believe that the government, who
is so weak in punishing criminals is going to protect me and my family? Even despite that, why shouldn\'t any
normal, responsible person be able to own a gun? If nothing else, accurate shooting is a hard won skill that many
are proud to have.
Reality is that more people are killed by car accidents, incompetent doctors and drunk drivers
than are even injured by non-criminal gun owners.
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
I own guns,
and see the value of it. Where I was raised, violent crime was comparatively low-- particularly home invasions.
Because any home that a criminal might choose to invade was likely to have a shooter in residence.
People also
didn\'t shoot up McDonalds, because chances are that at least one of the patrons was likely to have a concealed
weapons permit.
Now this might get me flamed, but... I think that concealed weapons permits should be available
to people who:
1) Have no criminal record,
2) Have demonstrated marksmanship at an \"expert\" level on the
firing range,
3) Have passed a NRA endorsed smallarms safety course, and
4) Have passed written and practical
smallarms safety tests.
BTW-- I own guns, but do not hunt. The only things that I have ever killed are many paper
targets. I also practice archery. The fun is in the development of marksmanship skills-- not in the harming of
something.
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
Agreed! Emphatically
<hr /></blockquote><font
class=\"post\">
And.. though I am a 120# woman, if a criminal chose to invade my home with the intention of
doing harm....he\'s probably toast. Because his weapons skills are likely to be inferior to mine. I\'m trained,
he probably isn\'t.
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Anyone watch \"Bowling for Columbine\"?
I
couldn\'t believe that you get shooter for OPENING AN ACCOUNT IN A BANK!! First comment after receiving
it:
\"Don\'t you think it\'s a little dangerous, handing out guns in a bank??\"
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Anyway, I found it quite interesting (and the cartoon-part is
even funny to some extent!)...
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
Loved Bowling for
Columbine!
BTW-- A bank robber in West L.A. was apprehended after he left his gun behind. He called the bank,
later, and asked whether he could come by and pick it up.
belgareth
03-19-2004, 06:13 PM
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font
class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr
/>
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font
class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Why do people even own guns? I mean if you like to hunt animals I guess that
is an ok reason, but wouldn\'t you have more fun hunting a deer with a spear, it kind of evens out the playing
field a bit more. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif I think that right is a bit overrated....No
matter how safe you are with that, if you had kids in your house, you still run a small risk that you have to accept
and everyone in your house has to accept.
Let\'s face it, we can talk about the parents until we are blue in
the face, and that is probably a \'cause of the situation, but some kids are just worse than other kids. Basically
some kids are just EVIL. In this world we have those that are smarter, quicker, more prone to violence, sexual
abuse, serial killing, and these fundementals apply to children. Not all children are sweet as can be, and not all
of them act bad because their parents weren\'t there to slap their hand, though that is a large percentage of it
usually.
So watch out for Chucky. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif
<hr
/></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
Is there some reason a person should not be allowed to own a gun? To
protect them from themselves? Look up some crime rate statistics. A good set are the before and after ones when
Florida became a concealed carry state. I hate to sound militant but do you really believe that the government, who
is so weak in punishing criminals is going to protect me and my family? Even despite that, why shouldn\'t any
normal, responsible person be able to own a gun? If nothing else, accurate shooting is a hard won skill that many
are proud to have.
Reality is that more people are killed by car accidents, incompetent doctors and drunk drivers
than are even injured by non-criminal gun owners.
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
I own guns,
and see the value of it. Where I was raised, violent crime was comparatively low-- particularly home invasions.
Because any home that a criminal might choose to invade was likely to have a shooter in residence.
People also
didn\'t shoot up McDonalds, because chances are that at least one of the patrons was likely to have a concealed
weapons permit.
Now this might get me flamed, but... I think that concealed weapons permits should be available
to people who:
1) Have no criminal record,
2) Have demonstrated marksmanship at an \"expert\" level on the
firing range,
3) Have passed a NRA endorsed smallarms safety course, and
4) Have passed written and practical
smallarms safety tests.
BTW-- I own guns, but do not hunt. The only things that I have ever killed are many paper
targets. I also practice archery. The fun is in the development of marksmanship skills-- not in the harming of
something.
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
Agreed! Emphatically
<hr /></blockquote><font
class=\"post\">
And.. though I am a 120# woman, if a criminal chose to invade my home with the intention of
doing harm....he\'s probably toast. Because his weapons skills are likely to be inferior to mine. I\'m trained,
he probably isn\'t.
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
I feel exactly the same way. My \'Home
defense clip\' is loaded with Talons. If some idiot forces me to shoot him, I want him to stay shot. I have no
problem at all cleaning up somebody else\'s blood.
belgareth
03-19-2004, 06:26 PM
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font
class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr
/>
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font
class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Why do people even own guns? I mean if you like to hunt animals I guess that
is an ok reason, but wouldn\'t you have more fun hunting a deer with a spear, it kind of evens out the playing
field a bit more. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif I think that right is a bit overrated....No
matter how safe you are with that, if you had kids in your house, you still run a small risk that you have to accept
and everyone in your house has to accept.
Let\'s face it, we can talk about the parents until we are blue in
the face, and that is probably a \'cause of the situation, but some kids are just worse than other kids. Basically
some kids are just EVIL. In this world we have those that are smarter, quicker, more prone to violence, sexual
abuse, serial killing, and these fundementals apply to children. Not all children are sweet as can be, and not all
of them act bad because their parents weren\'t there to slap their hand, though that is a large percentage of it
usually.
So watch out for Chucky. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif
<hr
/></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
Is there some reason a person should not be allowed to own a gun? To
protect them from themselves? Look up some crime rate statistics. A good set are the before and after ones when
Florida became a concealed carry state. I hate to sound militant but do you really believe that the government, who
is so weak in punishing criminals is going to protect me and my family? Even despite that, why shouldn\'t any
normal, responsible person be able to own a gun? If nothing else, accurate shooting is a hard won skill that many
are proud to have.
Reality is that more people are killed by car accidents, incompetent doctors and drunk drivers
than are even injured by non-criminal gun owners.
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
I own guns,
and see the value of it. Where I was raised, violent crime was comparatively low-- particularly home invasions.
Because any home that a criminal might choose to invade was likely to have a shooter in residence.
People also
didn\'t shoot up McDonalds, because chances are that at least one of the patrons was likely to have a concealed
weapons permit.
Now this might get me flamed, but... I think that concealed weapons permits should be available
to people who:
1) Have no criminal record,
2) Have demonstrated marksmanship at an \"expert\" level on the
firing range,
3) Have passed a NRA endorsed smallarms safety course, and
4) Have passed written and practical
smallarms safety tests.
BTW-- I own guns, but do not hunt. The only things that I have ever killed are many paper
targets. I also practice archery. The fun is in the development of marksmanship skills-- not in the harming of
something.
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
Agreed! Emphatically
<hr /></blockquote><font
class=\"post\">
And.. though I am a 120# woman, if a criminal chose to invade my home with the intention of
doing harm....he\'s probably toast. Because his weapons skills are likely to be inferior to mine. I\'m trained,
he probably isn\'t.
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
Kari,
I don\'t hunt so don\'t own
any rifles only handguns. I have three daughters. They can all cut out the bulls-eye at 9 meters with a 22LR pistol.
As soon as they were old and strong enough to safely handle a gun they started learning gun safety and marksmanship.
Like so many other things, training and familiarity removed most of the risk of having them around the house. Gun
safety is practiced here more from years of habit than from any enforced rules. I have few worries because there is
no novelty for them.
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font
class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr
/>
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font
class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Why do people
even own guns? I mean if you like to hunt animals I guess that is an ok reason, but wouldn\'t you have more fun
hunting a deer with a spear, it kind of evens out the playing field a bit more.
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif I think that right is a bit overrated....No matter how safe you are
with that, if you had kids in your house, you still run a small risk that you have to accept and everyone in your
house has to accept.
Let\'s face it, we can talk about the parents until we are blue in the face, and that is
probably a \'cause of the situation, but some kids are just worse than other kids. Basically some kids are just
EVIL. In this world we have those that are smarter, quicker, more prone to violence, sexual abuse, serial killing,
and these fundementals apply to children. Not all children are sweet as can be, and not all of them act bad because
their parents weren\'t there to slap their hand, though that is a large percentage of it usually.
So watch out
for Chucky. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif
<hr /></blockquote><font
class=\"post\">
Is there some reason a person should not be allowed to own a gun? To protect them from
themselves? Look up some crime rate statistics. A good set are the before and after ones when Florida became a
concealed carry state. I hate to sound militant but do you really believe that the government, who is so weak in
punishing criminals is going to protect me and my family? Even despite that, why shouldn\'t any normal,
responsible person be able to own a gun? If nothing else, accurate shooting is a hard won skill that many are proud
to have.
Reality is that more people are killed by car accidents, incompetent doctors and drunk drivers than are
even injured by non-criminal gun owners.
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
I own guns, and see the
value of it. Where I was raised, violent crime was comparatively low-- particularly home invasions. Because any home
that a criminal might choose to invade was likely to have a shooter in residence.
People also didn\'t shoot up
McDonalds, because chances are that at least one of the patrons was likely to have a concealed weapons permit.
Now this might get me flamed, but... I think that concealed weapons permits should be available to people
who:
1) Have no criminal record,
2) Have demonstrated marksmanship at an \"expert\" level on the firing
range,
3) Have passed a NRA endorsed smallarms safety course, and
4) Have passed written and practical smallarms
safety tests.
BTW-- I own guns, but do not hunt. The only things that I have ever killed are many paper targets.
I also practice archery. The fun is in the development of marksmanship skills-- not in the harming of something.
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
Agreed! Emphatically
<hr /></blockquote><font
class=\"post\">
And.. though I am a 120# woman, if a criminal chose to invade my home with the intention of
doing harm....he\'s probably toast. Because his weapons skills are likely to be inferior to mine. I\'m trained,
he probably isn\'t.
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
Kari,
I don\'t hunt so don\'t own
any rifles only handguns. I have three daughters. They can all cut out the bulls-eye at 9 meters with a 22LR pistol.
As soon as they were old and strong enough to safely handle a gun they started learning gun safety and marksmanship.
Like so many other things, training and familiarity removed most of the risk of having them around the house. Gun
safety is practiced here more from years of habit than from any enforced rules. I have few worries because there is
no novelty for them.
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
Yep. That was my upbringing, too.
Taught to shoot SAFELY as soon as I was old enough to lift a gun. No accidents in that house. Ever.
belgareth
03-19-2004, 06:39 PM
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Kari,
I don\'t hunt so don\'t own any
rifles only handguns. I have three daughters. They can all cut out the bulls-eye at 9 meters with a 22LR pistol. As
soon as they were old and strong enough to safely handle a gun they started learning gun safety and marksmanship.
Like so many other things, training and familiarity removed most of the risk of having them around the house. Gun
safety is practiced here more from years of habit than from any enforced rules. I have few worries because there is
no novelty for them.
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
Yep. That was my upbringing, too.
Taught to shoot SAFELY as soon as I was old enough to lift a gun. No accidents in that house. Ever.
<hr
/></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
That\'s the difference between responsible gun ownership and these macho
morons who think they are toys. While it is not a secret, most people don\'t even realize I own guns.
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font
class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Yes I know Pancho, some kids are just evil, and are well aware of their
actions. The whole \"What about the kids, or how will the kids handle this.\" stuff in America is way over done. I
still feel if a 13, 14, 15 year old or even younger who has done something criminal say like murder, they deserve
life in jail or death (debatable /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif). Kids are babied and age is
usually used as a exploitation. Jeffery Dahmer was cutting up animals when he was younger, and yes he is evil and
was \"f$cked up\" /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
<hr /></blockquote><font
class=\"post\">
If the dog can learn that it may not bite people, why can\'t a child learn that s/he may not
do harm?
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
They can and do, but there are sociopath\'s(sp?) at
all ages.
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
I think people are watching too much \"Children
are miracles and our future\" \"they do no wrong!\" Oprah crap. Sure they are, but this total focus on children
has gone a bit too far to a point of oversatuation.
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
We are so
afraid of \"abusing\" our children that they are running the show. The authority of the parent or teacher is so
watered down that if a kid wants to go bad who can stop them?
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
You\'re on a boat with your mother, your spouse,
and your baby. The boat is sinking, and you only have the strength to take one back to shore. The others are
unable to make it on their own, and you are the only one who can save one of them. Who do you save?
<hr
/></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
Spouse
belgareth
03-19-2004, 07:25 PM
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font
class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Yes I know
Pancho, some kids are just evil, and are well aware of their actions. The whole \"What about the kids, or how will
the kids handle this.\" stuff in America is way over done. I still feel if a 13, 14, 15 year old or even younger
who has done something criminal say like murder, they deserve life in jail or death (debatable
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif). Kids are babied and age is usually used as a exploitation.
Jeffery Dahmer was cutting up animals when he was younger, and yes he is evil and was \"f$cked up\"
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
If the dog can
learn that it may not bite people, why can\'t a child learn that s/he may not do harm?
<hr
/></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
They can and do, but there are sociopath\'s(sp?) at all ages.
<hr
/></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
Unfortunately, that\'s true. The real issue here is identifying and
helping them. Many mental conditions respond well to drug therapy and new ones are being developed to help many
more. Prevention is key to the problem, schools and parents both have got to be involved to make it work. Now many
parents refuse to admit a problem exists and the schools are powerless in most cases.
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font
class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Why do people
even own guns? I mean if you like to hunt animals I guess that is an ok reason, but wouldn\'t you have more fun
hunting a deer with a spear, it kind of evens out the playing field a bit more.
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif I think that right is a bit overrated....No matter how safe you are
with that, if you had kids in your house, you still run a small risk that you have to accept and everyone in your
house has to accept.
Let\'s face it, we can talk about the parents until we are blue in the face, and that is
probably a \'cause of the situation, but some kids are just worse than other kids. Basically some kids are just
EVIL. In this world we have those that are smarter, quicker, more prone to violence, sexual abuse, serial killing,
and these fundementals apply to children. Not all children are sweet as can be, and not all of them act bad because
their parents weren\'t there to slap their hand, though that is a large percentage of it usually.
So watch out
for Chucky. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif
<hr /></blockquote><font
class=\"post\">
Is there some reason a person should not be allowed to own a gun? To protect them from
themselves? Look up some crime rate statistics. A good set are the before and after ones when Florida became a
concealed carry state. I hate to sound militant but do you really believe that the government, who is so weak in
punishing criminals is going to protect me and my family? Even despite that, why shouldn\'t any normal,
responsible person be able to own a gun? If nothing else, accurate shooting is a hard won skill that many are proud
to have.
Reality is that more people are killed by car accidents, incompetent doctors and drunk drivers than are
even injured by non-criminal gun owners.
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
I own guns, and see the
value of it. Where I was raised, violent crime was comparatively low-- particularly home invasions. Because any home
that a criminal might choose to invade was likely to have a shooter in residence.
People also didn\'t shoot up
McDonalds, because chances are that at least one of the patrons was likely to have a concealed weapons permit.
Now this might get me flamed, but... I think that concealed weapons permits should be available to people
who:
1) Have no criminal record,
2) Have demonstrated marksmanship at an \"expert\" level on the firing
range,
3) Have passed a NRA endorsed smallarms safety course, and
4) Have passed written and practical smallarms
safety tests.
BTW-- I own guns, but do not hunt. The only things that I have ever killed are many paper targets.
I also practice archery. The fun is in the development of marksmanship skills-- not in the harming of something.
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
If this were true and you could kill someone attacking you, then I
think violent crime in America would drop dramatically.
belgareth
03-19-2004, 07:28 PM
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font
class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
I think people are watching too much \"Children are miracles and our
future\" \"they do no wrong!\" Oprah crap. Sure they are, but this total focus on children has gone a bit too far
to a point of oversatuation.
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
We are so afraid of \"abusing\"
our children that they are running the show. The authority of the parent or teacher is so watered down that if a
kid wants to go bad who can stop them?
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
It\'s really sad when
you can be charged with abuse for discipling your kid but it happens all to frequently. And as bad is when the
schools enforce the rules only to have the parents take it to court. What does that teach the kids?
belgareth
03-19-2004, 07:30 PM
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font
class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr
/>
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Why do people even own guns? I mean if you like
to hunt animals I guess that is an ok reason, but wouldn\'t you have more fun hunting a deer with a spear, it kind
of evens out the playing field a bit more. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif I think that right is a
bit overrated....No matter how safe you are with that, if you had kids in your house, you still run a small risk
that you have to accept and everyone in your house has to accept.
Let\'s face it, we can talk about the parents
until we are blue in the face, and that is probably a \'cause of the situation, but some kids are just worse than
other kids. Basically some kids are just EVIL. In this world we have those that are smarter, quicker, more prone to
violence, sexual abuse, serial killing, and these fundementals apply to children. Not all children are sweet as can
be, and not all of them act bad because their parents weren\'t there to slap their hand, though that is a large
percentage of it usually.
So watch out for Chucky. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif
<hr
/></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
Is there some reason a person should not be allowed to own a gun? To
protect them from themselves? Look up some crime rate statistics. A good set are the before and after ones when
Florida became a concealed carry state. I hate to sound militant but do you really believe that the government, who
is so weak in punishing criminals is going to protect me and my family? Even despite that, why shouldn\'t any
normal, responsible person be able to own a gun? If nothing else, accurate shooting is a hard won skill that many
are proud to have.
Reality is that more people are killed by car accidents, incompetent doctors and drunk drivers
than are even injured by non-criminal gun owners.
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
I own guns,
and see the value of it. Where I was raised, violent crime was comparatively low-- particularly home invasions.
Because any home that a criminal might choose to invade was likely to have a shooter in residence.
People also
didn\'t shoot up McDonalds, because chances are that at least one of the patrons was likely to have a concealed
weapons permit.
Now this might get me flamed, but... I think that concealed weapons permits should be available
to people who:
1) Have no criminal record,
2) Have demonstrated marksmanship at an \"expert\" level on the
firing range,
3) Have passed a NRA endorsed smallarms safety course, and
4) Have passed written and practical
smallarms safety tests.
BTW-- I own guns, but do not hunt. The only things that I have ever killed are many paper
targets. I also practice archery. The fun is in the development of marksmanship skills-- not in the harming of
something.
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
If this were true and you could kill someone attacking
you, then I think violent crime in America would drop dramatically.
<hr /></blockquote><font
class=\"post\">
Is there some reason you can\'t?
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font
class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Kari,
I don\'t hunt so don\'t own any rifles only handguns. I have
three daughters. They can all cut out the bulls-eye at 9 meters with a 22LR pistol. As soon as they were old and
strong enough to safely handle a gun they started learning gun safety and marksmanship. Like so many other things,
training and familiarity removed most of the risk of having them around the house. Gun safety is practiced here more
from years of habit than from any enforced rules. I have few worries because there is no novelty for them.
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
Yep. That was my upbringing, too. Taught to shoot SAFELY as soon
as I was old enough to lift a gun. No accidents in that house. Ever.
<hr /></blockquote><font
class=\"post\">
That\'s the difference between responsible gun ownership and these macho morons who think
they are toys. While it is not a secret, most people don\'t even realize I own guns.
<hr
/></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
I am opening a fifth of Vodka because I agree with Bel and Kari.....
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif
belgareth
03-19-2004, 07:32 PM
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font
class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr
/>
Kari,
I don\'t hunt so don\'t own any rifles only handguns. I have three daughters. They can all cut
out the bulls-eye at 9 meters with a 22LR pistol. As soon as they were old and strong enough to safely handle a gun
they started learning gun safety and marksmanship. Like so many other things, training and familiarity removed most
of the risk of having them around the house. Gun safety is practiced here more from years of habit than from any
enforced rules. I have few worries because there is no novelty for them.
<hr /></blockquote><font
class=\"post\">
Yep. That was my upbringing, too. Taught to shoot SAFELY as soon as I was old enough to lift a
gun. No accidents in that house. Ever.
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
That\'s the difference
between responsible gun ownership and these macho morons who think they are toys. While it is not a secret, most
people don\'t even realize I own guns.
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
I am opening a fifth of
Vodka because I agree with Bel and Kari..... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif
<hr
/></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
Leave it in the freezer for a couple hours then chase it with cold water.
You\'ll never feel it go down. Hell of a way to get really plastered.
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font
class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Yes I know
Pancho, some kids are just evil, and are well aware of their actions. The whole \"What about the kids, or how will
the kids handle this.\" stuff in America is way over done. I still feel if a 13, 14, 15 year old or even younger
who has done something criminal say like murder, they deserve life in jail or death (debatable
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif). Kids are babied and age is usually used as a exploitation.
Jeffery Dahmer was cutting up animals when he was younger, and yes he is evil and was \"f$cked up\"
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
If the dog can
learn that it may not bite people, why can\'t a child learn that s/he may not do harm?
<hr
/></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
They can and do, but there are sociopath\'s(sp?) at all ages.
<hr
/></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
TOO true. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font
class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr
/>
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Yes I know Pancho, some kids are just evil, and
are well aware of their actions. The whole \"What about the kids, or how will the kids handle this.\" stuff in
America is way over done. I still feel if a 13, 14, 15 year old or even younger who has done something criminal say
like murder, they deserve life in jail or death (debatable /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif). Kids
are babied and age is usually used as a exploitation. Jeffery Dahmer was cutting up animals when he was younger, and
yes he is evil and was \"f$cked up\" /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
<hr
/></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
If the dog can learn that it may not bite people, why can\'t a child
learn that s/he may not do harm?
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
They can and do, but there are
sociopath\'s(sp?) at all ages.
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
Unfortunately, that\'s true.
The real issue here is identifying and helping them. Many mental conditions respond well to drug therapy and new
ones are being developed to help many more. Prevention is key to the problem, schools and parents both have got to
be involved to make it work. Now many parents refuse to admit a problem exists and the schools are powerless in most
cases.
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
... which is unfortunate, because incipient sociopathy is
fairly easy to indetify, early on.
EXIT63
03-20-2004, 06:05 AM
The problem with all these gun laws is that criminals don\'t abide by them.
And the problem with kids today
may stem from an unhealthy diet, lack of vigorous exercise, and ofcourse the lack of discipline and parenting in
general in so many American households.
So let\'s get mom off the valium. Dad off the scotch. Kids off the
couch. Stop with the freakin happy meals, and eliminate the pounds, and pounds, and pounds of SUGAR that these kids
eat in a year.
And then if your kid is still a troublemaker. Ship him off to military school.
I know it
sounds simplistic. But maybe we need a little more simplicity in our overly complicated lives.
belgareth
03-20-2004, 06:28 AM
Exit,
You are really starting to worry me. Other than the military school, I couldn\'t agree more. Although
the idea of every person being required to do some form of service, military or civil, for about 18 months after
they finish school has a lot of merit.
People who don\'t want to put in the effort to raise kids need to either
practice birth control or keep their friggin pants on. There\'s a lot of time and effort that goes into raising
civilized human beings.
belgareth
03-20-2004, 06:32 AM
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
The problem with all these gun laws is that
criminals don\'t abide by them.
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
Yup, we have plenty of laws.
What we need to do is enforce them. Spend the time and effort to catch and punish criminals to the degree that it
makes a lasting impression. I personally have no problem at all with chain gangs out cleaning the streets, in the
desert, in August!
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Exit,
You are really starting to worry me. Other
than the military school, I couldn\'t agree more. Although the idea of every person being required to do some form
of service, military or civil, for about 18 months after they finish school has a lot of merit.
People who
don\'t want to put in the effort to raise kids need to either practice birth control or keep their friggin pants
on. There\'s a lot of time and effort that goes into raising civilized human beings.
<hr
/></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
Agreed. There was local case of an unhandleable child. The school tried
to get the parents involved. The parents said,\" We\'re stuck with them three months out of the year. The rest of
the year they\'re the school\'s problem.\"
Um.... why did you have kids?
EXIT63
03-20-2004, 09:20 AM
Well the thing with the military schools is that they provide a much needed discipline. Although it\'s not right
to ship your kids off and wash your hands of them.
How about a couple of hundred military style semi-boarding
public high schools. Maybe the kids can come home on weekends. And when they reach a certain age they can be sent
to a real army boot camp. These schools can target inner-city kids who don\'t exactly have nuclear families.
My point is that without proper discipline and education these kids are screwed. Especially in todays economy.
belgareth
03-20-2004, 09:58 AM
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Well the thing with the military schools is that
they provide a much needed discipline. Although it\'s not right to ship your kids off and wash your hands of
them.
How about a couple of hundred military style semi-boarding public high schools. Maybe the kids can come
home on weekends. And when they reach a certain age they can be sent to a real army boot camp. These schools can
target inner-city kids who don\'t exactly have nuclear families.
My point is that without proper discipline
and education these kids are screwed. Especially in todays economy.
<hr /></blockquote><font
class=\"post\">
So, will these schools have the authority to enforce discipline? Without being sued twice a
week for making kids behave? You\'ll get no argument about the need for discipline with kids. The biggest problem
is starting so late. Kids need it as soon as they can comprehend it and that is very young. By doing it then, less
is needed later.
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font
class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr
/>
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Yes I know Pancho, some kids are just evil, and
are well aware of their actions. The whole \"What about the kids, or how will the kids handle this.\" stuff in
America is way over done. I still feel if a 13, 14, 15 year old or even younger who has done something criminal say
like murder, they deserve life in jail or death (debatable /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif). Kids
are babied and age is usually used as a exploitation. Jeffery Dahmer was cutting up animals when he was younger, and
yes he is evil and was \"f$cked up\" /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
<hr
/></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
If the dog can learn that it may not bite people, why can\'t a child
learn that s/he may not do harm?
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
They can and do, but there are
sociopath\'s(sp?) at all ages.
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
TOO true.
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
Frozen Vodka is
soooo goood1 /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.2 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.