View Full Version : Speaking of threadlocking.
EXIT63
02-28-2004, 09:41 AM
Has anyone seen
Mels new movie The Passion of Christ?
I wouldn\'t mind going but I hate movies with subtitles.
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Has anyone seen Mels new movie The Passion of
Christ?
I wouldn\'t mind going but I hate movies with subtitles.
<hr /></blockquote><font
class=\"post\">
Not going. Too much diversion from both history AND the Bible. Much more violent than the
gospels would indicate (I have read the Bible, but am not a believer, BTW). Too anti-Jewish (the Romans did it, and
Pilate was a nasty, not a reluctant nice).
Most of all, I\'m not gonna pay that little actor to proslityze me
(spelling?).
Holmes
02-28-2004, 10:14 AM
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Has anyone seen Mels new movie The Passion of
Christ?
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
Yes.
Holmes
EXIT63
02-28-2004, 10:27 AM
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font
class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Has anyone seen Mels new movie The Passion of Christ?
<hr
/></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
Yes.
Holmes
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
Well
Siskel...What\'d ya think?
Elana
02-28-2004, 10:32 AM
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Too anti-Jewish (the Romans did it, and Pilate was a
nasty, not a reluctant nice).
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
What she said
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
And because
of that it will only contribute to the myths....I\'ve had to endure sh!t from christians who didn\'t have the
story straight because of those myths. Portraying events falsely in a movie that millions will see is a huge
diservice.
Elana
02-28-2004, 10:48 AM
Unfortunately it has already flared up quite a bit of hate. One Baptist church put up a huge sign that read \"The
Jews killed our Lord.\" There have been several incidences already of blatant anti-Semitism. On a brighter note,
many Jewish and Christian groups have got together to discuss the issue and bring the truth to the table.
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
And because of that it will only contribute to the
myths....I\'ve had to endure sh!t from christians who didn\'t have the story straight because of those myths.
Portraying events falsely in a movie that millions will see is a huge diservice.
<hr /></blockquote><font
class=\"post\">
Well, one of the most oft-mentioned criticisms seems to be.... our Mel seems to have a bit of
an S&M thing going. Some of the critics also noted that there was a \"quasi-crucifixion\" in Braveheart. One
critic called the flick \"The Jesus Chainsaw Massacre.\"
For more.. read rottentomatoes.com
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font
class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
And because of that it will only contribute to the myths....I\'ve had to
endure sh!t from christians who didn\'t have the story straight because of those myths. Portraying events falsely
in a movie that millions will see is a huge diservice.
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
Well, one
of the most oft-mentioned criticisms seems to be.... our Mel seems to have a bit of an S&M thing going. Some of
the critics also noted that there was a \"quasi-crucifixion\" in Braveheart. One critic called the flick \"The
Jesus Chainsaw Massacre.\"
For more.. read rottentomatoes.com
<hr /></blockquote><font
class=\"post\">
A lot of his sentiments goes back to the family he was raised in. When that stuff gets
hammered into your brain as a kid, most people are deeply affected by it.
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Unfortunately it has already flared up quite a bit
of hate. One Baptist church put up a huge sign that read \"The Jews killed our Lord.\" There have been several
incidences already of blatant anti-Semitism. On a brighter note, many Jewish and Christian groups have got together
to discuss the issue and bring the truth to the table.
<hr /></blockquote><font
class=\"post\">
Elana\'s right. BTW-- the baptist church\'s own congregants made the church take the sign
down. NUMEROUS reviewers are pointing out the anti-Jewish content AND the historical distortion that blames the
Jews.
(A couple of reveiwers also noted that the \"Jews\" in the movie mostly seemed to have hooked noses and
crooked teeth, while the \"Romans\" were more attractive and hygienic). We\'re getting into Renaissance Shylock
stereotypes, here. YIKES!
I think that will bite Mel in the butt, in very short order.
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font
class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
And because
of that it will only contribute to the myths....I\'ve had to endure sh!t from christians who didn\'t have the
story straight because of those myths. Portraying events falsely in a movie that millions will see is a huge
diservice.
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
Well, one of the most oft-mentioned criticisms seems
to be.... our Mel seems to have a bit of an S&M thing going. Some of the critics also noted that there was a
\"quasi-crucifixion\" in Braveheart. One critic called the flick \"The Jesus Chainsaw Massacre.\"
For more..
read rottentomatoes.com
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
A lot of his sentiments goes back to the
family he was raised in. When that stuff gets hammered into your brain as a kid, most people are deeply affected by
it.
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
Yep. But, don\'t try to force it on others. Looks
like Mel is a legend in his own mind. BTW-- He says \"the holy spirit\" helped him write it.
Elana
02-28-2004, 10:56 AM
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
(A couple of reveiwers also noted that the
\"Jews\" in the movie mostly seemed to have hooked noses and crooked teeth, while the \"Romans\" were more
attractive and hygienic). We\'re getting into Renaissance Shylock stereotypes, here. YIKES!
<hr
/></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
I heard that as well. The Jews were dirty and had rotten teeth and eye
patches. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif WTF?
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font
class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
(A couple of reveiwers also noted that the \"Jews\" in the movie mostly
seemed to have hooked noses and crooked teeth, while the \"Romans\" were more attractive and hygienic). We\'re
getting into Renaissance Shylock stereotypes, here. YIKES!
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
I
heard that as well. The Jews were dirty and had rotten teeth and eye patches.
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif WTF?
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
.. and
also overlooked the fact that Jesus WAS a Jew.
Yea and also
side profiles showing the big noses.
Truthfully, I don\'t care if they make them look like crap, the problem
is, most young people - or everyone for that matter - get their information from mass media, and this movie is going
to be huggggeeeee, and shape beliefs.
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font
class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
(A couple of reveiwers also noted that the \"Jews\" in the movie mostly
seemed to have hooked noses and crooked teeth, while the \"Romans\" were more attractive and hygienic). We\'re
getting into Renaissance Shylock stereotypes, here. YIKES!
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
I
heard that as well. The Jews were dirty and had rotten teeth and eye patches.
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif WTF?
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
BTW--
None of my friends are going to pay to see that movie, either. We won\'t even rent it.
Elana
02-28-2004, 11:00 AM
I
wouldn\'t give Mel a dime. For that matter I wouldn\'t watch this film or anything else he does, even if he paid
me.
Holmes
02-28-2004, 11:01 AM
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Well Siskel...What\'d ya think?
<hr
/></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
Revolting. Endless (unbelievably graphic) brutality peppered with a few
flashbacks. That\'s basically it. Quite a few people walked out.
Heavily skewed (as in anti-semitic). What\'s
that headed in Mel\'s direction? Oh, a ration of sh*t!
So yeah, go see it!
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
Holmes
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Yea and also side profiles showing the big
noses.
Truthfully, I don\'t care if they make them look like crap, the problem is, most young people - or
everyone for that matter - get their information from mass media, and this movie is going to be huggggeeeee, and
shape beliefs.
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
I hope it\'s a temporary hysteria. I am not a
Christian (or a member of any OTHER reigion, for that matter). But, from what I\'ve read, I would doubt that the
movie portrays the spirit or intention of Christianity.
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
I wouldn\'t give Mel a dime. For that matter I
wouldn\'t watch this film or anything else he does, even if he paid me.
<hr /></blockquote><font
class=\"post\">
That\'s what a couple of Jewish studio heads said, too, Elana. I think Mel made a very bad
career move.
BTW-- the day after the movie openeing, there were 122 eBay auctions for \"nail pendants.\" If I
was a JFK worshipper, would I wear a little bullet around me neck? Weird!
Elana
02-28-2004, 11:10 AM
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font
class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Well Siskel...What\'d ya think?
<hr /></blockquote><font
class=\"post\">
Revolting. Endless (unbelievably graphic) brutality peppered with a few flashbacks. That\'s
basically it. Quite a few people walked out.
Heavily skewed (as in anti-semitic). What\'s that headed in
Mel\'s direction? Oh, a ration of sh*t!
So yeah, go see it!
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
Holmes
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
I
will take that as a thumbs way down. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Holmes
02-28-2004, 11:15 AM
Mel\'s
an incredible actor and director just the same. And the movie was amazingly well-crafted (content and commentary
aside). But, rest assured, he will be hammered for this.
As horrifying an experience as it was, for
it\'s uniqueness and it\'s gumption I would still call it good art.
Holmes
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Mel\'s an incredible actor and director just the
same. And the movie was amazingly well-crafted (content and commentary aside). But, rest assured, he will be
hammered for this.
As horrifying an experience as it was, for it\'s uniqueness and it\'s gumption I
would still call it good art.
Holmes
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
Maybe.. but I like my
art served with a lighter hand. I hate to be hammered over the head by it. That\'s why I don\'t care for Wagner.
The debate
about this film reminds of what happened when `the last temptation of christ´ was out.
Some christians don´t like
jesus christ superstar, they call it sacriligous.
I don´t bother with cinema much these days, they´re just too
expensive and most films don´t tempt me enough to pay the money /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
I´m still curious to see the film at some point though because I want to make up my own mind about it. I can still
appreciate an actors performance or costumes etc even if I don´t like what´s going on in a film or the contents of
it (I rarely fully agree with them anyway)
Holmes
02-28-2004, 11:25 AM
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
I will take that as a thumbs way down.
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif Yes and no. On an aesthetic level, unbelievable.
However, the
perspective was pretty f*cked up. Pinning it all on the Jews (and thus exonerating the Romans) didn\'t sit too
well. At all.
Holmes
Elana
02-28-2004, 11:28 AM
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
However, the perspective was pretty f*cked up.
Pinning it all on the Jews (and thus exonerating the Romans) didn\'t sit too well. At all.
<hr
/></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
Mel\'s got an agenda.
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
franki
02-28-2004, 11:29 AM
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Mel\'s got an agenda.
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
no shi!t!
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font
class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Mel\'s got an agenda.
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
no shi!t!
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
He\'s a 1950s conservative Roman Catholic.
Is he actually
against jews like the nazis were or did he try to make a film which has a strong relation with how he was raised ?
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
The debate about this film reminds of what happened
when `the last temptation of christ´ was out.
Some christians don´t like jesus christ superstar, they call it
sacriligous.
I don´t bother with cinema much these days, they´re just too expensive and most films don´t tempt me
enough to pay the money /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif I´m still curious to see the film at some
point though because I want to make up my own mind about it. I can still appreciate an actors performance or
costumes etc even if I don´t like what´s going on in a film or the contents of it (I rarely fully agree with them
anyway)
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
I go to films for escape. I don\'t think this
will do it. <g>
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Is he actually against jews like the nazis were or
is did he try to make a film which has a strong relation with how he was raised ?
<hr /></blockquote><font
class=\"post\">
The latter, I think.
Holmes
02-28-2004, 11:32 AM
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
no shi!t!
<hr /></blockquote><font
class=\"post\">
Being the son of a Neo-Nazi will do wonders for one\'s agenda.
Holmes
franki
02-28-2004, 11:33 AM
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Being the son of a Neo-Nazi will do wonders for
one\'s agenda.
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
I didn\'t know that. I thought he was
just a hardcore catholic. They used to be pretty anti-semitic as well in the past..
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font
class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
no shi!t!
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
Being the son of
a Neo-Nazi will do wonders for one\'s agenda.
Holmes
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
You
know.. I\'m not sure he THINKS his dad is neo-nazi.
Holmes
02-28-2004, 11:35 AM
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
I go to films for escape.
<hr
/></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
Then this might be a film you\'ll want to escape
from.
Holmes
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Is he actually against jews like the nazis were or
did he try to make a film which has a strong relation with how he was raised ?
<hr /></blockquote><font
class=\"post\">
Good question. What if his father what if his father took is beliefs beyond the religio and
more geered toward extremism?
What do you answer then?
Sometimes religion is open to interpretation, like how
there are extremists in the Muslim faith that are into jihad.
However, other Muslims interpret thing very
differently.
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font
class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Being the son of a Neo-Nazi will do wonders for one\'s agenda.
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
I didn\'t know that. I thought he was just a hardcore catholic.
They used to be pretty anti-semitic as well in the past..
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
His dad
says the Jewish Holocaust was exaggerated greatly. And, that the Jews and the Masons are conspiring to control the
world. Which is weird, since for a long time te Jews couldn\'t join the Masons.
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
And, that the Jews and the Masons are conspiring to
control the world.
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\"> I always had the impression that psychopaths and
idiots conspired to rule the world.
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font
class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
And, that the Jews and the Masons are conspiring to control the world.
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\"> I always had the impression that psychopaths and idiots conspired to
rule the world.
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif
<hr /></blockquote><font
class=\"post\">
No, they\'re (the psychopaths and idiots) the ones that WON.
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font
class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Being the
son of a Neo-Nazi will do wonders for one\'s agenda.
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
I
didn\'t know that. I thought he was just a hardcore catholic. They used to be pretty anti-semitic as well in the
past..
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
His dad says the Jewish Holocaust was exaggerated greatly.
And, that the Jews and the Masons are conspiring to control the world. Which is weird, since for a long time te Jews
couldn\'t join the Masons.
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
Yes, it takes someone special to
pull out of a situation like that. Children are taught to believe that there parents are right.
The same goes
for choosing your religion, political views, etc.
Many people end up mimicing their parent belief because that is
what is right\", and if you can step back, take a look at all the options with an open mind, then you can truely
say your beliefs are your own.
Problem is, it is difficult for people to have an open mind when their beliefs
have been shaped.
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font
class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr
/>
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Being the son of a Neo-Nazi will do wonders
for one\'s agenda.
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
I didn\'t know that. I thought he
was just a hardcore catholic. They used to be pretty anti-semitic as well in the past..
<hr
/></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
His dad says the Jewish Holocaust was exaggerated greatly. And, that the
Jews and the Masons are conspiring to control the world. Which is weird, since for a long time te Jews couldn\'t
join the Masons.
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
Yes, it takes someone special to pull out of a
situation like that. Children are taught to believe that there parents are right.
The same goes for choosing
your religion, political views, etc.
Many people end up mimicing their parent belief because that is what is
right\", and if you can step back, take a look at all the options with an open mind, then you can truely say your
beliefs are your own.
Problem is, it is difficult for people to have an open mind when their beliefs have been
shaped.
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
Sorry.. I was raised by a southern-Baptist-fundie,
quasi-nazi. No sympathy, here.
Rakesh
02-28-2004, 11:57 AM
Well
without antisemitism we can\'t deny that 1)ethnical jews do tend to be nasaly challenged 2)historical romans were
of the blonde blue eyed sort (those genes dissapeared over time though, as fair haired genes always
do).
Furthermore, the bad hygiene thing isn\'t so far from truth either. Unlike the rest of the world, the romans
actually had a bath once in a while. It\'s not just the jews, everywhere outside the empire was a bit...rugged.
Elana
02-28-2004, 12:00 PM
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Well without antisemitism we can\'t deny that
1)ethnical jews do tend to be nasaly challenged 2)historical romans were of the blonde blue eyed sort (those genes
dissapeared over time though, as fair haired genes always do).
Furthermore, the bad hygiene thing isn\'t so far
from truth either. Unlike the rest of the world, the romans actually had a bath once in a while. It\'s not just
the jews, everywhere outside the empire was a bit...rugged.
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
This
clean, fair skinned, blonde haired, blue eyed, small nosed Jew begs to differ.
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Adgenda....not accuracy
It´s because
of such bizarre notions and hatred feelings that hatred keeps going. It´s taught and passed on from one generation
to the next, so how can it end? It´s just not healthy.
A parent who does this to his child ain´t doing them a
favour but is it the parents fault, or the previous one in Mels case?Another aspect to speculate about.
franki
02-28-2004, 12:03 PM
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Well without antisemitism we can\'t deny that
1)ethnical jews do tend to be nasaly challenged 2)historical romans were of the blonde blue eyed sort (those genes
dissapeared over time though, as fair haired genes always do).
<hr /></blockquote><font
class=\"post\">
blahh, what a bunch of %%%%
Elana
02-28-2004, 12:06 PM
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Well without antisemitism we can\'t deny that
1)ethnical jews do tend to be nasaly challenged 2)historical romans were of the blonde blue eyed sort (those genes
dissapeared over time though, as fair haired genes always do).
Furthermore, the bad hygiene thing isn\'t so far
from truth either. Unlike the rest of the world, the romans actually had a bath once in a while. It\'s not just
the jews, everywhere outside the empire was a bit...rugged.
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
If
you know anything about the Jewish religion, you will know that cleanliness is intertwined with many traditions.
Think Kosher...think Mikvahs.....Jews were not any less clean than the Roman\'s. That is ridiculous. Who told you
that, Mel? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Unlike the rest of the world, the romans actually
had a bath once in a while.
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\"> the japanese have always been known to
value hygene very highly
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font
class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Has anyone seen Mels new movie The Passion of Christ?
I wouldn\'t mind
going but I hate movies with subtitles.
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
Not going. Too much
diversion from both history AND the Bible. Much more violent than the gospels would indicate (I have read the Bible,
but am not a believer, BTW). Too anti-Jewish (the Romans did it, and Pilate was a nasty, not a reluctant nice).
Most of all, I\'m not gonna pay that little actor to proslityze me (spelling?).
<hr /></blockquote><font
class=\"post\">
I will see it. I am curious to see how accurate it is. As being violent; Roman crucifiction
was a violent, painful and slow way to die. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
And because of that it will only contribute to the
myths....I\'ve had to endure sh!t from christians who didn\'t have the story straight because of those myths.
Portraying events falsely in a movie that millions will see is a huge diservice.
<hr /></blockquote><font
class=\"post\">
Which myths are speaking of? I agree that the \"church\" has created alot of myths about
Jesus over the centuries, but I am curious which ones made it into the movie.
Holmes
02-28-2004, 12:09 PM
The actual
crucifiction wasn\'t even the half of it.
Holmes
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Unfortunately it has already flared up quite a bit
of hate. One Baptist church put up a huge sign that read \"The Jews killed our Lord.\" There have been several
incidences already of blatant anti-Semitism.
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
That is just plain
sad.
Rakesh
02-28-2004, 12:10 PM
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
blahh, what a bunch of %%%%
<hr
/></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
Not really. I have history, you have only feelings.
Elana
02-28-2004, 12:11 PM
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font
class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
blahh, what a bunch of %%%%
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
Not really. I have history, you have only feelings.
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
You have
history? Please provide some links or sources.
Rakesh
02-28-2004, 12:14 PM
Umm do you
really need scientific proof that the Jews tend to have significant noses?
And the other half about romans
originally being fair haired, that is also a known thing.
Does it mean anything about anybody\'s superiority or
inferiority? No. I don\'t know which part of this appeared as \"%%%%%\" to Franki.
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
2)historical romans were of the blonde blue eyed
sort (those genes dissapeared over time though, as fair haired genes always do).
<hr /></blockquote><font
class=\"post\"> okay but where´s some proof? I want to know about this, for evolutionary reasons, not religious
mind /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif And don´t tell me that you got your info from the movies
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font
class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Unfortunately it has already flared up quite a bit of hate. One Baptist
church put up a huge sign that read \"The Jews killed our Lord.\" There have been several incidences already of
blatant anti-Semitism. On a brighter note, many Jewish and Christian groups have got together to discuss the issue
and bring the truth to the table.
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
Elana\'s right. BTW-- the
baptist church\'s own congregants made the church take the sign down. NUMEROUS reviewers are pointing out the
anti-Jewish content AND the historical distortion that blames the Jews.
(A couple of reveiwers also noted that the
\"Jews\" in the movie mostly seemed to have hooked noses and crooked teeth, while the \"Romans\" were more
attractive and hygienic). We\'re getting into Renaissance Shylock stereotypes, here. YIKES!
I think that will
bite Mel in the butt, in very short order.
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
My wife is Jewish
and she is seeing it today. I am very interested to hear her comments and see her reaction.
Elana
02-28-2004, 12:15 PM
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Umm do you really need scientific proof that the
Jews tend to have significant noses?
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
I am Jewish. I don\'t
have a big nose. Neither does anyone in my family. Did the Roman\'s have smaller noses then Jews?
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Umm do you really need scientific proof that the
Jews tend to have significant noses?
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\"> that is bollocks
franki
02-28-2004, 12:17 PM
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
No. I don\'t know which part of this appeared as
\"%%%%%\" to Franki.
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
All of it. You have been saying the same
old crap people have repeated for ages. There might be a bit of truth in it, but it is just really OLD.
Elana
02-28-2004, 12:17 PM
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font
class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Umm do you really need scientific proof that the Jews tend to have
significant noses?
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\"> that is bollocks
<hr /></blockquote><font
class=\"post\">
Yeah...it\'s pretty sad /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font
class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
I will take that as a thumbs way down.
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif Yes and no. On an aesthetic level, unbelievable.
However, the
perspective was pretty f*cked up. Pinning it all on the Jews (and thus exonerating the Romans) didn\'t sit too
well. At all.
Holmes
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
True true, after all Pilate could have
stopped it and it was the Romans who actually did the crucifiction.
Rakesh
02-28-2004, 12:19 PM
I\'m not
really up to employing google right now /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Some mosaics show people
with brown or blonde hair, for example. The question is how much this could be done artificially (bleaching), but
the statues don\'t show the modern day italian type either. The world is running out of blondes (stop right there,
90% of blonde people today are bleached) because the darker genes are dominant.
I wouldn\'t
kill rakeesh on this one, stereo types can be grounded in truth.
There is definitely some shared traits for
jews. I can often tell one by looking (Elana is not one of those people) and people can tell I am jewish.
I have
noticed certain re-ocurring facial features in people in different parts of the United States. That is not to say
people in each region look the same.
It is all about the gene pool.
Elana
02-28-2004, 12:20 PM
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Some mosaics show people with brown or blonde hair,
for example.
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
Good proof. I wonder if that is where Mel got his
data too. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Elana
02-28-2004, 12:21 PM
bjf....how
did the Roman\'s differ from the Jews in looks?
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
bjf....how did the Roman\'s differ from the Jews
in looks?
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
I have no clue.
I don\'t know a damn thing about
them. Hell, even people in Israel have those amazing green eyes that jews here often do not have.
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font
class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Well without antisemitism we can\'t deny that 1)ethnical jews do tend to be
nasaly challenged 2)historical romans were of the blonde blue eyed sort (those genes dissapeared over time though,
as fair haired genes always do).
Furthermore, the bad hygiene thing isn\'t so far from truth either. Unlike the
rest of the world, the romans actually had a bath once in a while. It\'s not just the jews, everywhere outside the
empire was a bit...rugged.
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
If you know anything about the Jewish
religion, you will know that cleanliness is intertwined with many traditions. Think Kosher...think Mikvahs.....Jews
were not any less clean than the Roman\'s. That is ridiculous. Who told you that, Mel?
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
Elana is right
on track here. You tell them! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Rakesh
02-28-2004, 12:27 PM
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Good proof. I wonder if that is where Mel got his
data too.
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\"> Apparently, you know better than the romans themselves how
they looked.
The problem is that people think that an ethnic sharing a trait=bad thing. Saying that people in
africa generally tend to be black isn\'t an evil racist attack nor a stereotype.
And just because some things
have been said a thousand times doesn\'t mean they\'re any less true. Apparently, it still wasn\'t said enough
times when some people still don\'t get it.
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
There is definitely some shared traits for jews. I
can often tell one by looking (Elana is not one of those people) and people can tell I am jewish.
I have noticed
certain re-ocurring facial features in people in different parts of the United States. That is not to say people in
each region look the same.
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\"> I´m quiete good at guessing peoples
nationality or `origins´that way but I honestly can´t say that about someone of a certain religion. And what rakesh
said just sounded like plain old prejudice to me. Also made me think of that scene in `the last metro´ in the
basement. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif
Elana
02-28-2004, 12:29 PM
You ignored
my proof about Jews and cleanliness. I gave you proof. You are saying that Jews were unclean. I want proof. Show me
something to back up your comments.
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Saying that people in africa generally tend to be
black isn\'t an evil racist attack nor a stereotype.
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\"> but at least
it´s a fact and it´s not about religion either.
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
And just because some things have been said a thousand times doesn\'t mean they\'re any less true.
<hr
/></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
doesn´t mean they are true either
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font
class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
There is definitely some shared traits for jews. I can often tell one by
looking (Elana is not one of those people) and people can tell I am jewish.
I have noticed certain re-ocurring
facial features in people in different parts of the United States. That is not to say people in each region look the
same.
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\"> I´m quiete good at guessing peoples nationality or
`origins´that way but I honestly can´t say that about someone of a certain religion. And what rakesh said just
sounded like plain old prejudice to me. Also made me think of that scene in `the last metro´ in the basement.
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
I don\'t
think he was being prejudice. Sometimes people can get beaten up for saying things that are partly true. The movie
was a load of bs though they way people were depicted. There is a difference between ethnic tendencies and
over-exaggeration\'s of them.
You can tell what nation people are from. yes, this is the shared gene pool
thing. Religions can be different, but since jews are minorities and haven\'t spread out there gene pool as well
(or something) people still ask me who have never met a jew if I am jewish.
I don\'t practice, but if other
people can tell I am jewish by looking at me, I must be Jewish. That is why a lot of jews think of it as an
ethnicity. Not because they choose to believe they are jewish, but because others tell them they are jewish.
Elana
02-28-2004, 12:35 PM
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Well without antisemitism we can\'t deny that
1)ethnical jews do tend to be nasaly challenged 2)historical romans were of the blonde blue eyed sort (those genes
dissapeared over time though, as fair haired genes always do).
Furthermore, the bad hygiene thing isn\'t so far
from truth either. Unlike the rest of the world, the romans actually had a bath once in a while. It\'s not just
the jews, everywhere outside the empire was a bit...rugged.
<hr /></blockquote><font
class=\"post\">
Good for Mel and others with like minds. Their agendas really seem to work.
Rakesh
02-28-2004, 12:36 PM
You want
proof?
Romans=baths. Big arse public baths, actually.
Middle east=no baths. Partially because of the general
shortage of water.
You misinterpret me again. It\'s must easier to twist an argument into an attack.
\"Unclean\" sounds pretty offensive, racistic even. But if you think you can go somewhere with not much water and
average temperatures around 40 degrees centigrade AND 2000 years before somebody came up with deodorants and be
clean as a lily...
The Jews were much cleaner than anybody in the area, but the romans were even further. The
conditions just didn\'t allow anything else.
Rakesh
02-28-2004, 12:37 PM
\"but at
least it´s a fact and it´s not about religion either\"
noses are religion?
Elana
02-28-2004, 12:38 PM
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
You want proof?
Romans=baths. Big arse public
baths, actually.
Middle east=no baths. Partially because of the general shortage of water.
You misinterpret me
again. It\'s must easier to twist an argument into an attack. \"Unclean\" sounds pretty offensive, racistic
even. But if you think you can go somewhere with not much water and average temperatures around 40 degrees
centigrade AND 2000 years before somebody came up with deodorants and be clean as a lily...
The Jews were much
cleaner than anybody in the area, but the romans were even further. The conditions just didn\'t allow anything
else.
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\"> Read up a bit on Jewish traditions and what they were stemmed
from. You will note just how wrong you are.
Rakesh
02-28-2004, 12:38 PM
lol
agendas?
Evil bad naughty politically incorrect history books, gotta sue them
Elana
02-28-2004, 12:40 PM
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
lol agendas?
Evil bad naughty politically
incorrect history books, gotta sue them
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
You are right. I was just
reading a funny story in my history book about this ugly Jew with a huge nose wearing an eye patch. It was so funny.
I can\'t wait to see the ending. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
Rakesh
02-28-2004, 12:41 PM
I can\'t
believe im being bashed because I said that romans had more baths than the jews and that the jews tend to have a
specific visage....
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font
class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
lol agendas?
Evil bad naughty politically incorrect history books, gotta sue
them
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
You are right. I was just reading a funny story in my
history book about this ugly Jew with a huge nose wearing an eye patch. It was so funny. I can\'t wait to see the
ending. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
Yea,
if the jews were all ugly in the movie, that is saying something right there about his opinion of them.
Elana
02-28-2004, 12:42 PM
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
I can\'t believe im being bashed because I said
that romans had more baths than the jews and that the jews tend to have a specific visage....
<hr
/></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
You are saying that history says this and that about Jews. What you are
saying is not true. Should I just sit here and let you say whatever you feel like saying and not argue with you If I
feel that you are completely wrong?
Rakesh
02-28-2004, 12:45 PM
Will you
stop twisting everything I say into racistic attacks?
I never said \"ugly\" nor \"eye patch\". I said \"big
nose\" which is both a significantly rooted stereotype and my personal experience. Maybe european jews are
different from american ones, I dunno, I only met the local ones.
Elana
02-28-2004, 12:47 PM
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Will you stop twisting everything I say into
racistic attacks?
I never said \"ugly\" nor \"eye patch\". I said \"big nose\" which is both a significantly
rooted stereotype and my personal experience. Maybe european jews are different from american ones, I dunno, I only
met the local ones.
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
You got no twisting from me.
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Will you stop twisting everything I say into
racistic attacks?
I never said \"ugly\" nor \"eye patch\". I said \"big nose\" which is both a significantly
rooted stereotype and my personal experience. Maybe european jews are different from american ones, I dunno, I only
met the local ones.
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
I think Russian jews tend to have bigger
noses.
All of my descendents are from there.
Regardless, the movie doesn\'t depict the people right, though
I understand you trying to say how some of it could be partially true. I don\'t think you are saying, however,
that they necessarily got it right, no?
Rakesh
02-28-2004, 12:53 PM
Then what
was the \"ugly\" and \"eyepatch\" business you added to my words to make them sound hateful?
History says
this and that, but I don\'t think I made any radical statements which would conflict any common knowledge. Which
point sounds wrong to you?
1)the roman empire was the most developped civilisation in the western world
2)the
roman empire had bath houses
3)people in the middle east did not have bath houses
4)it is often possible to
recognize a person of jewish (or almost any other) origin by certain typical facial features
EDIT: I never
defended the movie. The movie is pure rubbish, and it appears I was misunderstood and became the devil\'s
advocate. I was talking absolutely independently on the movie and everything depicted therein.
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Maybe european jews are different from american
ones, I dunno, I only met the local ones.
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\"> well the jewish people
that I know in Europe are just not like that and some of them are from Israel
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif
I know some iranians to which the trait `big nose´applies but
that is not a religious thing, it´s about their origin and they´re not jewish btw. Some peole have converted and
became jews, and you can´t tell that by looking at them.
Elana
02-28-2004, 12:56 PM
A tad bit
of history. I have to run out now, but if anyone wants more I can provide them with an endless
supply
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
The Bible introduces three rudiments of
healthful existence: rest, cleanliness, and prophylaxis. The weekly rest-day was unique to Judaic precepts. Cecil
Roth quotes \"the great medical historian, Karl Sudhoff: ‘Had Judaism given nothing more to mankind than the
establishment of a weekly day of rest, we should still be forced to proclaim her one of the greatest benefactors of
humanity.’\"1
Physical purity (cleanliness) is placed on a par with spiritual purity. David’s supplication to
God, \"Wash me thoroughly from my iniquity, and cleanse me from my sin (Ps. 51:4), is one of a myriad of references
to the concept of washing to achieve purity. An admonition to the sinner is a Divine imperative. \"For though thou
wash thee with nitre, and take thee much soap, yet thine iniquity is marked before me\" (Jer. 2:22). A Jew could
not enter the temple without bathing if he had done anything to render him impure. A bath had to be taken daily
before reading the Law (Torah); both of which were prescribed for every Jew.
Cleanliness was but part of ancient
Judaic prophylactic practices. The concept of contagion was likewise integral to biblical medical intelligence.
Hygienic laws of impurity after touching a corpse, or of those affected with diseases like gonorrhea or leprosy,
required a thorough washing with nitre or other caustic soaps.
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
Elana
02-28-2004, 12:57 PM
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Then what was the \"ugly\" and \"eyepatch\"
business you added to my words to make them sound hateful?
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
Did you
even read my original post? That is what Kari and I said that Mel did to the Jewish character, to which you gave
your reply. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif
franki
02-28-2004, 12:57 PM
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font
class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Maybe european jews are different from american ones, I dunno, I only met
the local ones.
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\"> well the jewish people that I know in Europe are
just not like that and some of them are from Israel /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif
I know some
iranians to which the trait `big nose´applies but that is not a religious thing, it´s about their origin and they´re
not jewish btw. Some peole have converted and became jews, and you can´t tell that by looking at them.
<hr
/></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
Yeah, Arabs are said to have big noses as well..
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font
class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Maybe european jews are different from american ones, I dunno, I only met
the local ones.
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\"> well the jewish people that I know in Europe are
just not like that and some of them are from Israel /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif
I know some
iranians to which the trait `big nose´applies but that is not a religious thing, it´s about their origin and they´re
not jewish btw. Some peole have converted and became jews, and you can´t tell that by looking at them.
<hr
/></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
Don\'t Russian men have bigger noses anyway, or am I wrong about this?
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
I think Russian jews tend to have bigger noses.
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\"> thanks that´s what I mean. It´s more about genetic heritage rather
than a religious one.
I mean there´s also russian christians, so do they have smaller noses
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Don\'t Russian men have bigger noses anyway, or
am I wrong about this?
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\"> I guess some have big noses but I´ve seen
russians (and polish) with `ordinary´ ones /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
I´ve seen russian
men with red noses too, they´re vodkaians /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
A tad bit of history. I have to run out now, but
if anyone wants more I can provide them with an endless supply
</font><blockquote><font
class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
The Bible introduces three rudiments of healthful existence: rest,
cleanliness, and prophylaxis. The weekly rest-day was unique to Judaic precepts. Cecil Roth quotes \"the great
medical historian, Karl Sudhoff: ‘Had Judaism given nothing more to mankind than the establishment of a weekly day
of rest, we should still be forced to proclaim her one of the greatest benefactors of humanity.’\"1
Physical
purity (cleanliness) is placed on a par with spiritual purity. David’s supplication to God, \"Wash me thoroughly
from my iniquity, and cleanse me from my sin (Ps. 51:4), is one of a myriad of references to the concept of washing
to achieve purity. An admonition to the sinner is a Divine imperative. \"For though thou wash thee with nitre, and
take thee much soap, yet thine iniquity is marked before me\" (Jer. 2:22). A Jew could not enter the temple without
bathing if he had done anything to render him impure. A bath had to be taken daily before reading the Law (Torah);
both of which were prescribed for every Jew.
Cleanliness was but part of ancient Judaic prophylactic practices.
The concept of contagion was likewise integral to biblical medical intelligence. Hygienic laws of impurity after
touching a corpse, or of those affected with diseases like gonorrhea or leprosy, required a thorough washing with
nitre or other caustic soaps.
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
<hr /></blockquote><font
class=\"post\">
If you do not believe this, just watch the toothbrush episode of Seinfeld!!
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Rakesh
02-28-2004, 01:06 PM
The
article doesn\'t really contradict anything I said. I did state that the Jews had better hygiene than most, but I
do believe the romans had more:)
How often did regular baths take place? This particular question is a real
ordinary question without any traps waiting around it, so please answer:)
BTW washing with nitre....I know only a
few ways to obtain nitre naturally, and all of them contain either urine or manure:) The easiest is to scrape
salpeter off stable walls.
Elana
02-28-2004, 01:09 PM
You are in
a corner. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif
Rakesh
02-28-2004, 01:11 PM
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Did you even read my original post? That is what
Kari and I said that Mel did to the Jewish character, to which you gave your reply
<hr /></blockquote><font
class=\"post\"> But the post in which you used those words was a reaction to my post about history books. You are
confusing me with the movie.
Elana
02-28-2004, 01:12 PM
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font
class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Did you even read my original post? That is what Kari and I said that Mel did
to the Jewish character, to which you gave your reply
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\"> But the post
in which you used those words was a reaction to my post about history books. You are confusing me with the movie.
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
You defended Mel\'s characterization of the Jews. What am I
missing here? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif
Rakesh
02-28-2004, 01:16 PM
Certainly
not.
You negate things I never said. Jewish hygiene wasn\'t BAD. But the romans, well, their hygiene was a
completely different league.
Rakesh
02-28-2004, 01:17 PM
\"You
defended Mel\'s characterization of the Jews. What am I missing here?\"
The thing you are missing is that I was
not defending Mel\'s characterisation of the jews
Rakesh
02-28-2004, 01:33 PM
A friend
of mine who is not a registered user here but was notified about the discussion asked me to post his two cents, so
here goes:
\"In this time period there was a very small elite involving for the most part priests and former kings
who would have wealth in israel and were also jews. Compare this to the tens of thousands of peasantry in the area,
it would be difficult to accurately portray a society around 2000 years before crest and economized soap as being
clean cut with a nice set of pearly whites.
Compare this of course with the Romans over there They were either
a)rulers who would have massive amounts of wealth at their hands
b) merchants again possessing considerable
wealth
or lastly
c) soldiers who are being most likely provided with many amenities as well as having a hefty
paycheck which would permit them to be clean cut and have good hygeine
further more romans were very concerned
about physical appearance, similar to the egyptians, they were generally clean cut or had trimmed beards and hair.
Jews on the other hand traditionally grew beards long, and it would be unreasonable to think that a poor farmer
would spend his entire wages upon some method of beard control. So quite simply, you are wrong\"
Then he already
has some remarks to the \"Unfortunately it has already flared up quite a bit of hate. One Baptist church put up a
huge sign that read \"The Jews killed our Lord.\" There have been several incidences already of blatant
anti-Semitism. On a brighter note, many Jewish and Christian groups have got together to discuss the issue and bring
the truth to the table.\" thing.
\"Southern Baptist, not Baptist genius. And seeing as these are the same
people who ban disney movies and barbies and the like because they are tools of satan, I\'d say that the movie is
not the cause of that.\"
Not only devil\'s advocate, spokesman of the nine hells too. Yay.
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
further more romans were very concerned about
physical appearance, similar to the egyptians, they were generally clean cut or had trimmed beards and hair. Jews on
the other hand traditionally grew beards long, and it would be unreasonable to think that a poor farmer would spend
his entire wages upon some method of beard control. So quite simply, you are wrong\"
<hr
/></blockquote><font class=\"post\"> thanks for posting your mates opinion btw he could register and post himself
too /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
I have something to add to this tho. Not all romans very
wealthy and many were poor. So the statement says that the jews who were poor could not afford the personal hygene
like the romans did. But what about the poorer romans?
As I understand it the comparison is very much focused
between the poorer jews and the wealthier of the romans. Which is not fair if you will as there were pleanty of
roman peasants who didn´t have the same means as the rich ones.
The main problem with this statement is that it
speaks more of grooming rather than actual personal hygene which are not always the same thing
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
CJ
Rakesh
02-28-2004, 02:03 PM
Speaking
for myself, I\'m pretty sure he meant the romans in israel, not romans in the entire empire. Gives sense that the
occupants don\'t plow the fields /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Speaking for my friend
: \"generally lazy or rather lazy enough that I\'m not going to become a member of another forum for this
topic\"
EXIT63
02-29-2004, 04:48 AM
WOO-HOO
We\'re back in business.
Did anyone hear the interview with Mels father. They\'ve been
playing it a lot on the Stern Show.
Anyway, the father is a complete nut-job. Even going as far as saying
the holocaust didn\'t happen and that holocaust museums are only in business to make money.
Pretty scary
huh.
Elana
02-29-2004, 04:51 AM
Rakesh...I
have read many of your posts in the past and consider you to be a bright guy. In this case you seem to have put your
foot in your mouth and said something that was not only wrong, it was beyond wrong. If you care to continue trying
to tell me how Jews may have been clean but just not as clean as the Roman\'s, or all Roman\'s were rich and all
Jews were poor so the rich Roman\'s had more baths than the Jews and the Jews had less than the Roman\'s and
blah, blah, blah....I will tell you again....you are wrong. Jews had to bathe before the entered the temple. They
did that everyday. Many, many Jewish traditions which started from the beginning of Judaism where based on
cleanliness. That is why Kosher eating was starting. Now we continue eating this way because of tradition.
I
do not think that you are prejudice in the slightest. I do feel that you are falling for the typical stereotype of
the Jewish person.
Just want to
point out that many jewish women still like a big sausage nonetheless
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
Elana
02-29-2004, 05:23 AM
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Just want to point out that many jewish women still
like a big sausage nonetheless /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
<hr
/></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
I LOVE a big sausage!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
EXIT63
02-29-2004, 05:35 AM
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font
class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Just want to point out that many jewish women still like a big sausage
nonetheless /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
I LOVE a big
sausage!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
<hr
/></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
As long as it\'s kosher.
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif
Elana
02-29-2004, 05:37 AM
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font
class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Just want to
point out that many jewish women still like a big sausage nonetheless
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
I LOVE a big
sausage!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
<hr
/></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
As long as it\'s kosher.
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
Nah...as long
as it is juicy /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
EXIT63
02-29-2004, 05:52 AM
and lean
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
and lean
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
I thought it was
all about girth?? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Holmes
02-29-2004, 07:12 AM
Wayne was
cooler.
Holmes
MEL: I
FORGIVE THEM
Feb 28 2004
For the critics know not what they do, says Mel
From Anthony Harwood Us
Editor In New York
MEL GIBSON said yesterday he \"forgives\" critics of his controversial film
about the crucifixion.
The Passion of the Christ has been slammed as too bloody and violent and conmemned as
anti-Semitic.
But Gibson said: \"I forgive them and I try to act in a way of love, even to those who
persecute you. Very much like the film.\"
He admitted it includes scenes of unspeakable cruelty but said:
\"The Bible is R-rated. I mean, look at that book ... that\'s a hot book.\"
The Lethal Weapon star said
the violence was not \"gratuitous\", adding: \"Why am I being picked on for this? There\'s far more violent
movies\" - such as Quentin Tarantino\'s Kill Bill. Gibson, who got a standing ovation on Jay Leno\'s TV chat
show, said he was shocked by the \"prejudgment and condemnation\" that began a year ago when the script was
leaked.
\"For a year it\'s been nothing but nasty editorials and name calling,\" he said.
Of the
anti-Semitism allegations he said: \"It\'s wrong, it\'s unconscionable ... that\'s not what the film\'s
about. It\'s about tolerance. The film is true to the gospels and it\'s not anti-Semitic.\"
The film,
which opened across America this week, took more than £40million on its first day and could become one of the
biggest hits ever.
The controversy is fast becoming the butt of jokes on American TV.
One pundit on CNN
quipped: \"Mel Gibson has denied charges of anti-Semitism over his new movie Lethal Rabbi.\"
Leno joined in
when Gibson said he had poured £15million of his own money into it because Hollywood was not interested.
The
chat host said: \"The studios said they would have paid for it but they wanted a more upbeat ending.\"
And
he joked that it was doing so well \"there\'s talk of turning it into a book\".
Elana
02-29-2004, 08:03 AM
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
MEL: I FORGIVE THEM
<hr /></blockquote><font
class=\"post\">
Phew...I\'ll sleep so much better tonight. Mel\'s forgiveness means the world to me.
Holmes
02-29-2004, 08:08 AM
Mel need da
weed, mon. I an\' I say, get da mon a fahtwun. G\'wan now.
Holmes
The gospel
according to Mel
By Mac VerStandig, ArtsEtc. Writer
February 27, 2004
For a
film about a man who preached messages of love, it is astounding just how hateful \"The Passion of the Christ\"
truly is. Unrelentingly anti-Semitic, excessively grotesque and overly narrow in its scope, Mel Gibson\'s
controversial film is full of all the wrong sorts of passion.
The movie concerns itself only with the final 12
hours of Jesus\' (James Caviezel) life, depicting Judas\' (Luca Lionello) betrayal in the opening moments of the
picture and wasting little time before commencing to depict the bloodying of Jesus.
Therein lies one of the
movie\'s principal flaws: Gibson selects such a narrow time frame that he is ultimately unable to balance the
atrocities committed against the protagonist with any meaningful inclusion of his teachings. The film does offer a
handful of flashbacks, but they are too few and too short to offer any sort of relief from the film\'s main
objective -- apparently the overly graphic portrayal of Jesus\' suffering.
Indeed, the violence is so brutal
in nature that it not only ranks \"The Passion of the Christ\" as the most grotesque film ever made, but also
shows the errors of the Motion Picture Association of America in not tagging the film with an NC-17 rating.
\"Saving Private Ryan,\" \"Hamburger Hill\" and even Gibson\'s \"Braveheart\" are all graphic in their
nature, but none are near the level of \"The Passion of the Christ.\"
Not only does the film depict Jesus
being rather severely manhandled by the Jews (part of a larger anti-Semitic undertone that will be discussed later),
but the picture also takes care to depict all 39 floggings, counted aloud one at a time. Moreover, the scourging
becomes a bloodbath of nauseating proportions. Jesus\' flesh is violently ripped away as the faces of his beaters
are sprayed with red and the ground around his fallen body slowly becomes a pool.
Although Gibson clearly
wants to be faithful to the sheer brutality that is described in the book of Isaiah, the whippings become so
hyperbolic in nature that the film loses credibility early on. The New Testament is clear that Jesus, although the
Son of Man, was a mortal until his death. Indeed, this theme is central to \"The Passion of the Christ\" as the
film seeks to show the toll of the infamous 12 hours on Jesus\' human body. But the reality is that the scourging
is so brutal that no one could have survived; if the film were concerned with the realities of Jesus\' humanity,
he never would have lived to carry his cross.
Of course, if the lashings are excessively violent, then the
crucifixion itself is pornographic. The film takes great care to slowly depict the driving of the stakes through
Jesus -- never hesitating to show the gushing of his blood in contrast to the carnage of his thorny crown. In
combination with the still-recent lash marks, these images are too much for children or the weak-stomached to handle
and another persuasive argument that the film\'s rating be more restrictive.
It is the totality of this
violence that, in part, lends the film its horrifically anti-Semitic message. Not only does Gibson care to place the
blame almost exclusively on the Jews, but by depicting the torture in such fantastical detail, he also fosters a
growing hatred toward those who would dare subject a man to such brutality.
The contrast is remarkable: Pontius
Pilate (Hristo Shopov) is depicted as a man torn about how to handle Jesus. The film, in a rare scene excluding the
protagonist, shows Pilate\'s careful meditation in great detail, ultimately explaining that he is only willing to
condemn Jesus to death for the greater good of his people, as he fears the uprising that might ensue if he does not
order the crucifixion. Conversely, the Jews are never shown to give their actions any thought whatsoever and are
depicted as controlling Rome and acting with a mob mentality that thirsts for blood alone.
Granted, the Romans
who carry out Pilate\'s fatal order do seem to relish the task, but the message is clear: only the lowliest of
Romans are culpable in Jesus\' death, but even the highest of the Jews shoulder responsibility.
By the time
Barabbas is spared at Jesus\' expense, the anti-Semitic message is already clear. The Jews are emotionless,
bloodthirsty and conniving. The Romans - who, even Gibson must acknowledge, ultimately are the ones to crack a whip
39 times and drive the actual stakes into Jesus - come across as a civilized, compassionate people. As a result,
almost all of the blame is assigned to the Jews, who are shown finding stoic pleasure in these final 12 hours.
Gibson should have reduced the violence, expanded the flashbacks and steered clear of making a film so obsessed
with anti-Semitism that even Simon (Jarreth Merz) ultimately looks bad. Technically, he has the skill to do just
this - the cinematography is already picturesque, the makeup is horrifically realistic and the acting, with the
exception of a scene where Caviezel makes it appear as though Jesus is nodding off in front of Pilate, is stellar.
Moreover, credit should be given where due, and Gibson\'s decision to make the entire movie in Aramaic (with
Romans speaking Street Latin) significantly helps establish the time setting and build intensity.
But not even
these small accomplishments can overshadow the fact that \"The Passion of the Christ\" is a bitter film that uses
excessive violence to foster hatred that this religiously divided world simply doesn\'t need.
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font
class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
MEL: I FORGIVE THEM
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
Phew...I\'ll sleep so much better tonight. Mel\'s forgiveness means the world to me.
<hr
/></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
It should.. you\'re a Jew. According to Mel, you need it more.
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Mel need da weed, mon. I an\' I say, get da mon a
fahtwun. G\'wan now.
Holmes
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
BTW-- the flick is still
running \"rotten,\" on rottentomatoes.
Elana
02-29-2004, 08:13 AM
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
The gospel according to Mel
By Mac
VerStandig, ArtsEtc. Writer
February 27, 2004
For a film about a man who preached messages
of love, it is astounding just how hateful \"The Passion of the Christ\" truly is. Unrelentingly anti-Semitic,
excessively grotesque and overly narrow in its scope, Mel Gibson\'s controversial film is full of all the wrong
sorts of passion.
The movie concerns itself only with the final 12 hours of Jesus\' (James Caviezel) life,
depicting Judas\' (Luca Lionello) betrayal in the opening moments of the picture and wasting little time before
commencing to depict the bloodying of Jesus.
Therein lies one of the movie\'s principal flaws: Gibson
selects such a narrow time frame that he is ultimately unable to balance the atrocities committed against the
protagonist with any meaningful inclusion of his teachings. The film does offer a handful of flashbacks, but they
are too few and too short to offer any sort of relief from the film\'s main objective -- apparently the overly
graphic portrayal of Jesus\' suffering.
Indeed, the violence is so brutal in nature that it not only ranks
\"The Passion of the Christ\" as the most grotesque film ever made, but also shows the errors of the Motion
Picture Association of America in not tagging the film with an NC-17 rating. \"Saving Private Ryan,\" \"Hamburger
Hill\" and even Gibson\'s \"Braveheart\" are all graphic in their nature, but none are near the level of \"The
Passion of the Christ.\"
Not only does the film depict Jesus being rather severely manhandled by the Jews
(part of a larger anti-Semitic undertone that will be discussed later), but the picture also takes care to depict
all 39 floggings, counted aloud one at a time. Moreover, the scourging becomes a bloodbath of nauseating
proportions. Jesus\' flesh is violently ripped away as the faces of his beaters are sprayed with red and the
ground around his fallen body slowly becomes a pool.
Although Gibson clearly wants to be faithful to the sheer
brutality that is described in the book of Isaiah, the whippings become so hyperbolic in nature that the film loses
credibility early on. The New Testament is clear that Jesus, although the Son of Man, was a mortal until his death.
Indeed, this theme is central to \"The Passion of the Christ\" as the film seeks to show the toll of the infamous
12 hours on Jesus\' human body. But the reality is that the scourging is so brutal that no one could have
survived; if the film were concerned with the realities of Jesus\' humanity, he never would have lived to carry
his cross.
Of course, if the lashings are excessively violent, then the crucifixion itself is pornographic.
The film takes great care to slowly depict the driving of the stakes through Jesus -- never hesitating to show the
gushing of his blood in contrast to the carnage of his thorny crown. In combination with the still-recent lash
marks, these images are too much for children or the weak-stomached to handle and another persuasive argument that
the film\'s rating be more restrictive.
It is the totality of this violence that, in part, lends the film
its horrifically anti-Semitic message. Not only does Gibson care to place the blame almost exclusively on the Jews,
but by depicting the torture in such fantastical detail, he also fosters a growing hatred toward those who would
dare subject a man to such brutality.
The contrast is remarkable: Pontius Pilate (Hristo Shopov) is depicted as
a man torn about how to handle Jesus. The film, in a rare scene excluding the protagonist, shows Pilate\'s careful
meditation in great detail, ultimately explaining that he is only willing to condemn Jesus to death for the greater
good of his people, as he fears the uprising that might ensue if he does not order the crucifixion. Conversely, the
Jews are never shown to give their actions any thought whatsoever and are depicted as controlling Rome and acting
with a mob mentality that thirsts for blood alone.
Granted, the Romans who carry out Pilate\'s fatal order
do seem to relish the task, but the message is clear: only the lowliest of Romans are culpable in Jesus\' death,
but even the highest of the Jews shoulder responsibility.
By the time Barabbas is spared at Jesus\' expense,
the anti-Semitic message is already clear. The Jews are emotionless, bloodthirsty and conniving. The Romans - who,
even Gibson must acknowledge, ultimately are the ones to crack a whip 39 times and drive the actual stakes into
Jesus - come across as a civilized, compassionate people. As a result, almost all of the blame is assigned to the
Jews, who are shown finding stoic pleasure in these final 12 hours.
Gibson should have reduced the violence,
expanded the flashbacks and steered clear of making a film so obsessed with anti-Semitism that even Simon (Jarreth
Merz) ultimately looks bad. Technically, he has the skill to do just this - the cinematography is already
picturesque, the makeup is horrifically realistic and the acting, with the exception of a scene where Caviezel makes
it appear as though Jesus is nodding off in front of Pilate, is stellar.
Moreover, credit should be given where
due, and Gibson\'s decision to make the entire movie in Aramaic (with Romans speaking Street Latin) significantly
helps establish the time setting and build intensity.
But not even these small accomplishments can overshadow
the fact that \"The Passion of the Christ\" is a bitter film that uses excessive violence to foster hatred that
this religiously divided world simply doesn\'t need.
<hr
/></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
I have read several reviews similar to this one and most are not from Jewish
reviewers.
Holmes
02-29-2004, 08:15 AM
Get da mon
a blunt I say! He den put love inna movie. Israela yakirati, mon. One love.
Holmes
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
I have read several reviews
similar to this one and most are not from Jewish reviewers.
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
Yes.
I think that after the hysteria passes, people are going to become aware of the fanaticism of the movie.
To
be fair, I don\'t think Mel intended any harm. He says he went from addictions and potential suicide to the 12
stations of the cross (\"they were MY 12 steps\").
I think he may have traded one addiction for another.
But... it\'s apparently still a very nasty piece (I haven\'t seen it, nor will I, nor will my friends--
which are many).
Holmes
02-29-2004, 08:22 AM
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font
class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
The gospel according to Mel
By Mac VerStandig, ArtsEtc.
Writer
February 27, 2004
For a film about a man who preached messages of love, it is
astounding just how hateful \"The Passion of the Christ\" truly is. Unrelentingly anti-Semitic, excessively
grotesque and overly narrow in its scope, Mel Gibson\'s controversial film is full of all the wrong sorts of
passion.
The movie concerns itself only with the final 12 hours of Jesus\' (James Caviezel) life, depicting
Judas\' (Luca Lionello) betrayal in the opening moments of the picture and wasting little time before commencing
to depict the bloodying of Jesus.
Therein lies one of the movie\'s principal flaws: Gibson selects such a
narrow time frame that he is ultimately unable to balance the atrocities committed against the protagonist with any
meaningful inclusion of his teachings. The film does offer a handful of flashbacks, but they are too few and too
short to offer any sort of relief from the film\'s main objective -- apparently the overly graphic portrayal of
Jesus\' suffering.
Indeed, the violence is so brutal in nature that it not only ranks \"The Passion of the
Christ\" as the most grotesque film ever made, but also shows the errors of the Motion Picture Association of
America in not tagging the film with an NC-17 rating. \"Saving Private Ryan,\" \"Hamburger Hill\" and even
Gibson\'s \"Braveheart\" are all graphic in their nature, but none are near the level of \"The Passion of the
Christ.\"
Not only does the film depict Jesus being rather severely manhandled by the Jews (part of a larger
anti-Semitic undertone that will be discussed later), but the picture also takes care to depict all 39 floggings,
counted aloud one at a time. Moreover, the scourging becomes a bloodbath of nauseating proportions. Jesus\' flesh
is violently ripped away as the faces of his beaters are sprayed with red and the ground around his fallen body
slowly becomes a pool.
Although Gibson clearly wants to be faithful to the sheer brutality that is described
in the book of Isaiah, the whippings become so hyperbolic in nature that the film loses credibility early on. The
New Testament is clear that Jesus, although the Son of Man, was a mortal until his death. Indeed, this theme is
central to \"The Passion of the Christ\" as the film seeks to show the toll of the infamous 12 hours on Jesus\'
human body. But the reality is that the scourging is so brutal that no one could have survived; if the film were
concerned with the realities of Jesus\' humanity, he never would have lived to carry his cross.
Of course,
if the lashings are excessively violent, then the crucifixion itself is pornographic. The film takes great care to
slowly depict the driving of the stakes through Jesus -- never hesitating to show the gushing of his blood in
contrast to the carnage of his thorny crown. In combination with the still-recent lash marks, these images are too
much for children or the weak-stomached to handle and another persuasive argument that the film\'s rating be more
restrictive.
It is the totality of this violence that, in part, lends the film its horrifically anti-Semitic
message. Not only does Gibson care to place the blame almost exclusively on the Jews, but by depicting the torture
in such fantastical detail, he also fosters a growing hatred toward those who would dare subject a man to such
brutality.
The contrast is remarkable: Pontius Pilate (Hristo Shopov) is depicted as a man torn about how to
handle Jesus. The film, in a rare scene excluding the protagonist, shows Pilate\'s careful meditation in great
detail, ultimately explaining that he is only willing to condemn Jesus to death for the greater good of his people,
as he fears the uprising that might ensue if he does not order the crucifixion. Conversely, the Jews are never shown
to give their actions any thought whatsoever and are depicted as controlling Rome and acting with a mob mentality
that thirsts for blood alone.
Granted, the Romans who carry out Pilate\'s fatal order do seem to relish the
task, but the message is clear: only the lowliest of Romans are culpable in Jesus\' death, but even the highest of
the Jews shoulder responsibility.
By the time Barabbas is spared at Jesus\' expense, the anti-Semitic message
is already clear. The Jews are emotionless, bloodthirsty and conniving. The Romans - who, even Gibson must
acknowledge, ultimately are the ones to crack a whip 39 times and drive the actual stakes into Jesus - come across
as a civilized, compassionate people. As a result, almost all of the blame is assigned to the Jews, who are shown
finding stoic pleasure in these final 12 hours.
Gibson should have reduced the violence, expanded the
flashbacks and steered clear of making a film so obsessed with anti-Semitism that even Simon (Jarreth Merz)
ultimately looks bad. Technically, he has the skill to do just this - the cinematography is already picturesque, the
makeup is horrifically realistic and the acting, with the exception of a scene where Caviezel makes it appear as
though Jesus is nodding off in front of Pilate, is stellar.
Moreover, credit should be given where due, and
Gibson\'s decision to make the entire movie in Aramaic (with Romans speaking Street Latin) significantly helps
establish the time setting and build intensity.
But not even these small accomplishments can overshadow the
fact that \"The Passion of the Christ\" is a bitter film that uses excessive violence to foster hatred that this
religiously divided world simply doesn\'t need.
<hr
/></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
I have read several reviews similar to this one and most are not from Jewish
reviewers.
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
Gene Shallot\'s review:
\"IIIIIII loved
it!\"
Holmes
Elana
02-29-2004, 08:23 AM
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Get da mon a blunt I say! He den put love inna
movie. Israela yakirati, mon. One love.
Holmes
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
Cuyah, he
gwan lak he nice eee?
Dem a wan no good bunch
Elana
02-29-2004, 08:25 AM
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
To be fair, I don\'t think Mel intended any
harm.
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
I do /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
The idiot
Tonite Show people giving him a standing ovation is no different than the voters of California electing
Arnold.
You expect there to always be fools in this world, but when the so-called normal masses except it, that
is particularly disconcerting.
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
The idiot Tonite Show people giving him a standing
ovation is no different than the voters of California electing Arnold.
You expect there to always be fools in
this world, but when the so-called normal masses except it, that is particularly disconcerting.
<hr
/></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
Too many people confuse the normal-person artist for his/her heroic/larger
than life character.
Icarus
02-29-2004, 08:33 AM
I thought it
was the Jedi that did Jesus in?
Elana
02-29-2004, 08:35 AM
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
I thought it was the Jedi that did Jesus in?
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
pod people
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
I thought it was the Jedi that did Jesus in?
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
The Imperial Troops, honey. Didn\'t you see all that white
plastic armor, standing around the foot of the cross?
Icarus
02-29-2004, 08:36 AM
Jedi
Pod People?
Hold me.
Holmes
02-29-2004, 08:36 AM
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Dem a wan no good bunch
<hr
/></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
Im badda dan dem!
Holmes
Some of my
movie industry friends tell me there\'s actually a lot of professional consternation around that flick. But,
nobody wants to mess with Mel, at this time. You know how, in some industries, colleagues \"close ranks\" if one
of their own makes a mistake? They are just gonna keep quiet, and let the movie bite Mel in the ass-- which it will
eventually do.
But, a couple of studio heads are saying that they are seriously pissed, and won\'t use Mel,
again.
The thing about this place is... there\'s a ton of talent, and a lot of it is hungry. There are a lot
of excellent artists to use and to promote. \"Star power\" is more transient than it used to be.
Elana
02-29-2004, 08:52 AM
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font
class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Dem a wan no good bunch
<hr /></blockquote><font
class=\"post\">
Im badda dan dem!
Holmes
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
Ole still, mi
si wan big maskitta pan yu foot
The Passion of
the Christ
February 27, 2004
I defy anyone to remain unmoved
By Ruth
Gledhill
Our correspondent finds Mel Gibson’s crucifixion movie
affecting but deeply disturbing
ONE of the most frightening aspects of the latest work of fiction from
Mel Gibson was the willingness of so many Christians in the invited audience to
believe in its absolute veracity.
Some of the most moving
scenes in The Passion of the Christ are nowhere to be found in the Bible, not
that they would necessarily be true even if they were; this is something that
can be attested from more than a century of biblical exegesis.
NI_MPU(\'middle\');
Gibson has incorporated into the script some of the writings of
a German nun who died in 1824, Sister Anne Catherine Emmerich. In the latest
edition of The Tablet, the Roman Catholic weekly, Austen Ivereigh describes how
Sister Anne’s posthumously published text, The Dolorous Passion of
Our Lord Jesus Christ, reflected the popular anti-Semitism of the period. Pope Pius XII was
among the fans of Sister Anne, who is now approaching
beatification, and Gibson carries a relic of hers in his pocket.
Her influence must therefore be borne in mind when watching one powerful but
non-biblical scene, where Pilate’s sympathetic wife gives white towels to Mary and
Mary Magdalene and they wipe the floor clean of Jesus’s blood after the
scourging.
In other non-biblical scenes, Jesus is thrown off a
bridge by his tormentors, shackled in chains; Pilate at one point says all the Pharisees
hate Jesus, and also asks the High Priest, Caiaphas, whether they always
punish their prisoners before they are judged. Pilate also offers Jesus a drink of
water in a kindly gesture, and the role of his wife is exaggerated.
The most moving scene in the film for me is also not one that I recall from years of
Sunday school. Jesus, carrying his Cross, stumbles and collapses and we see a
flashback to His boyhood when, on the same stretch of road in Jerusalem, He
falls at the same spot. Mary, sensing the prophetic import of the moment, runs to
cuddle and comfort the boy. I defy any mother to remain unmoved by this
scene. I could not prevent the tears running down my cheeks here and others were similarly
affected, at this and other parts.
The Bible exerted a huge
power over me as a child. Gibson’s achievement has been to translate this power
into a film. The Passion is an extraordinary achievement in its use of light,
music, colour and language. I barely noticed the subtitles, with the Latin and Aramaic
seeming to come alive.
This is where its greatest danger lies. It
is all very well for Christians to insist this film is not
anti-Semitic, to repeat that Jesus and His mother were Jewish. Large numbers of Jewish
people who see this film are appalled, and with good reason. For centuries,
clergy have from their pulpits been preaching messages that underlaid anti-Semitic
sentiment in societies worldwide and enabled Hitler to pursue his horrifying
“Final Solution”.
In Gibson’s film, it is Jesus and his followers, the
Christians, who are the victims. The high priests, the Jews, are the
persecutors. The film will be, and is already being, treated as fact by leading Christians
in this country. Gibson left out the deicidal line from Matthew
xxvii, 25. But there are two scenes where Jesus’s persecutors demand His Crucifixion,
crying to Pilate: “Yitstalev! Yitstalev! Yitstalev!” This is
Aramaic. But it happens also to mean “ crucify Him” in modern Hebrew. I cannot understand
how anyone in a post-Holocaust era, and aware of the sensitivities
swirling around modern Israel, could have done such a provocative and distressing thing.
Passion plays in medieval times, which drew on the same texts, were often
followed by pogroms.
May their blood be on all of us Christians, for all
eternity, if we allow one single act of anti-Semitism to be inspired by
this powerful but terrifying film.
Holmes
02-29-2004, 10:40 AM
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Ole still, mi si wan big maskitta pan yu foot
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
ROFLMAO! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
That was gonna
be my next reply!
\"Hello, Miss Cleo?\"
Holmes
Pancho1188
02-29-2004, 11:04 AM
I just wanted to say that each and every person on earth should all live by the gospel according to
Mel...Mel Brooks. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
(For those who don\'t know, he continually
pokes fun at his own religion, Hitler, etc...\"The Producers\" is a good example)
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
I just wanted to say that each and every person on
earth should all live by the gospel according to Mel...Mel Brooks.
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
(For those who don\'t know, he continually pokes fun at his
own religion, Hitler, etc...\"The Producers\" is a good example)
<hr /></blockquote><font
class=\"post\">
Then there was the Inquisition dance number in History of the World (I forget which part).
Favorite line from a Brooks movie: \"I just LOVE quicktime harch.\"
I LOVE Mel B.! a
Holmes
02-29-2004, 11:07 AM
The original Gospel Of Mel begins with the words \"Stow it, Alice!\"
Words to live and die
by.
Holmes
Pancho1188
02-29-2004, 11:11 AM
Okay, let\'s all get real, here. We all know who killed Jesus. God allowed Jesus\' death. If He
can burn bushes, part the seas, flood the earth, kill all the first-born children, talk to whoever He deems
\'chosen\', create the ten commandments, allow Jesus to bring Lazarus back to life, and commit other divine
acts, He could\'ve prevented that death unless it was not His will.
Holmes
02-29-2004, 11:14 AM
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
burn bushes, part the seas, flood the earth, kill
all the first-born children, talk to whoever He deems \'chosen\', create the ten commandments, allow Jesus to
bring Lazarus back to life, and commit other divine acts
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
How\'d
you get a copy of my resume?
Holmes
Pancho1188
02-29-2004, 11:21 AM
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font
class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
burn bushes, part the seas, flood the earth, kill all the first-born
children, talk to whoever He deems \'chosen\', create the ten commandments, allow Jesus to bring Lazarus back to
life, and commit other divine acts
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
How\'d you get a copy of my
resume?
Holmes
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
It was on HotJobs.com. Would everyone like
to see it?
Holmes
999 Heaven\'s Gate
Heaven, Universe 00000
(000) 000-0000
Education
The Holmes School
of Divine Influence
Masters Degree in Holy Might
4.0/4.0
Work Experience
Company: God, Inc.
Job Title:
Prophet
Employment Duration: Eternity
Job Description:
burn bushes, part the seas, flood the earth, kill all the
first-born children, talk to whoever He deems \'chosen\', create the ten commandments, allow Jesus to bring
Lazarus back to life, and commit other divine acts
References:
Moses
Noah
George W. Bush
Please contact
Holmes if anyone is interested.
Holmes
02-29-2004, 11:25 AM
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif George gave me a nice letter of recommendation. Forgot to run it
through Spell Check, though. (Is \"Ima\" a word?)
Back to topic: I heard Mel Gibson\'s into
chocolate.
Holmes
Elana
02-29-2004, 12:13 PM
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Then there was the Inquisition dance number in
History of the World (I forget which part).
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
OMG! That was so
frikken funny!!! That was the Spanish Inquisition dance from History of the World Part I. I am such a Mel Brooks
fan! He is so the man!!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Elana
02-29-2004, 12:15 PM
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font
class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Ole still, mi si wan big maskitta pan yu foot
<hr /></blockquote><font
class=\"post\">
ROFLMAO! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
That was gonna
be my next reply!
\"Hello, Miss Cleo?\"
Holmes
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
Yeah
right! And I bet you are going to tell me that you were going to say Yu can cyarri dis cow pan yuh chuck? next
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Holmes
02-29-2004, 12:18 PM
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font
class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Then there was the Inquisition dance number in History of the World (I
forget which part).
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
OMG! That was so frikken funny!!! That was
the Spanish Inquisition dance from History of the World Part I. I am such a Mel Brooks fan! He is so the man!!!
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
That was
amazing. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif I loved Dom Deluise as Ceasar, too.
Holmes
Holmes
02-29-2004, 12:24 PM
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font
class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Ole still, mi
si wan big maskitta pan yu foot
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
ROFLMAO!
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
That was gonna be my next reply!
\"Hello, Miss
Cleo?\"
Holmes
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
Yeah right! And I bet you are going to tell
me that you were going to say Yu can cyarri dis cow pan yuh chuck? next
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
No, actually
I was gonna point out that \"Mel Im love chaklit cake with nuff icenin.\" That Beyonce/Betty Crocker thing was
proof enough.
Holmes
Elana
02-29-2004, 12:24 PM
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font
class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Then there
was the Inquisition dance number in History of the World (I forget which part).
<hr /></blockquote><font
class=\"post\">
OMG! That was so frikken funny!!! That was the Spanish Inquisition dance from History of the
World Part I. I am such a Mel Brooks fan! He is so the man!!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
<hr
/></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
That was amazing. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif I loved Dom
Deluise as Ceasar, too.
Holmes
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
One of his greatest characters was the late Madeline Kahn as Lili
Von Shtupp in Blazing Saddles. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
With the exception of Space
Balls, everything he touches is gold. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
Holmes
02-29-2004, 12:27 PM
Even Spaceballs had its moments, though.
Blazing Saddles is the greatest.
Holmes
Elana
02-29-2004, 12:29 PM
The Producers was pretty damn funny. Springtime for Hitler in Germany
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Holmes
02-29-2004, 12:37 PM
The Producers was really funny. Haven\'t seen it on Broadway yet. I guess I\'m waiting for Ben Stiller
and Larry David to take over... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
Holmes
Elana
02-29-2004, 12:39 PM
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
The Producers I guess I\'m waiting for
Ben Stiller and Larry David to take over... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
Holmes
<hr
/></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font
class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Then there was the Inquisition dance number in History of the World (I
forget which part).
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
OMG! That was so frikken funny!!! That was
the Spanish Inquisition dance from History of the World Part I. I am such a Mel Brooks fan! He is so the man!!!
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
Hey,
Torquemada! Whaddaya say?
I just got back form the auto-da-fe.
Auto-da-fe? What\'s an auto-da-fe?
It\'s what
you oughn\'t to do, but you do anyway.
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font
class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Then there
was the Inquisition dance number in History of the World (I forget which part).
<hr /></blockquote><font
class=\"post\">
OMG! That was so frikken funny!!! That was the Spanish Inquisition dance from History of the
World Part I. I am such a Mel Brooks fan! He is so the man!!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
<hr
/></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
That was amazing. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif I loved Dom
Deluise as Ceasar, too.
Holmes
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
Madeline Kahn as the
Empress: \"Yes, no,no,no,no,no,no,YES!\"
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font
class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Then there was the Inquisition dance number in
History of the World (I forget which part).
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
OMG! That was so
frikken funny!!! That was the Spanish Inquisition dance from History of the World Part I. I am such a Mel Brooks
fan! He is so the man!!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
<hr
/></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
That was amazing. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif I loved Dom
Deluise as Ceasar, too.
Holmes
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
One of his greatest characters was the late Madeline Kahn as Lili
Von Shtupp in Blazing Saddles. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
With the exception of Space
Balls, everything he touches is gold. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
<hr
/></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
Lili von Shtup: \"It\'s twew! It\'s twew, it\'s twew, it\'s
twew!\'
The Sheriff: \"Lady, you\'re sucking on my arm!\" (from Blazing Saddles). <g>
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Even Spaceballs had its moments,
though.
Blazing Saddles is the greatest.
Holmes
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
I
dunno-- being a Hitchcock fan, I could REALLY appreciate \"high Anxiety.\"
My friends\' favorite is
\'Young Frankenstein,\" though.
\"Oh! Sweet mystery of life, at last I\'ve found you!\"
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
The Producers was pretty damn funny. Springtime for
Hitler in Germany /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
<hr /></blockquote><font
class=\"post\">
\"Winter for Poland and France.\" <g>
Elana
02-29-2004, 02:27 PM
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Here I stand, the goddess of Desire
Set men on
fire
I have this power
Morning noon and night it\'s drink and dancing
Some quick romancing
And then a
shower
Stage door johnnies always surround me
They always hound me
With one request
Who can satisfy their
lustful habits
I\'m not a rabbit
I need some rest
I\'m tired
Sick and tired of love
I\'ve had my
fill of love
From below and above
Tired, tired of being admired
Tired of love uninspired
Let\'s face it
I\'m tired
I\'ve been with 1000\'s of men
Again and again
They promise the moon
They always coming
and going
Going and coming
And always too soon
Right girls?
I\'m tired,
Tired of playing the game
Ain\'t it a crying shame
I\'m so tired
God dammit I\'m exhausted
Tired, tired of playing the game
Ain\'t it a crying shame
I\'m so tired
[Soldiers:]
She\'s tired (She\'s tired)
Sick and tired of
love (Give her a break)
She\'s had her fill of love (She\'s not a snake)
From bellow and above (Can\'t you
see she\'s sick)
Tired (She\'s bushed)
Tired of being admired (Let her alone)
Tired of love uninspired
(Get off the phone)
She\'s tired (Don\'t you know she\'s pooped)
I\'ve been with 1000\'s of men
Again and again
They sing the same tune
They start with Byron and Shelly
And jump on your belly
And bust
your ballon
Aye!
Tired, tired of playing the game
Ain\'t it a freakin\' shame
I\'m so...
Let\'s
face it everything below the waist is kapput!
[Soldiers:]
Tired!
<hr /></blockquote><font
class=\"post\">
Rakesh
02-29-2004, 02:53 PM
One good point was said here.
Jesus was supposed to die.
All the people who go \"omg evil romans/jews/judas
killed our little jesus\" and sparkle the sparks of hate just don\'t get it. Completely outside all spirituality
here, if he survived, christianity would never be born. There were heaps of prophets claiming this or that, but he
died for his two cents, he was the martyr, not just a talker. If they didn\'t nail him, he would have his small
circle of followers and would be forgotten within 200 years.
Which is of course only the tip of the iceberg,
the spiritual neccesity and symbolism of his death is something i dare not fathom here.
DISCLAIMER: I do not
consider myself a christian. (before any flames land on my arse)
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