Speaking of threadlocking. [Archive] - Love-Scent Pheromones Forum

EXIT63

02-28-2004, 09:41 AM

Has anyone seen

Mels new movie The Passion of Christ?

I wouldn\'t mind going but I hate movies with subtitles.

Kari

02-28-2004, 10:09 AM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Has anyone seen Mels new movie The Passion of

Christ?

I wouldn\'t mind going but I hate movies with subtitles.

<hr /></blockquote>

Not going. Too much diversion from both history AND the Bible. Much more violent than the

gospels would indicate (I have read the Bible, but am not a believer, BTW). Too anti-Jewish (the Romans did it, and

Pilate was a nasty, not a reluctant nice).

Most of all, I\'m not gonna pay that little actor to proslityze me

(spelling?).

Holmes

02-28-2004, 10:14 AM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Has anyone seen Mels new movie The Passion of

Christ?

<hr /></blockquote>

Yes.

Holmes

EXIT63

02-28-2004, 10:27 AM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Has anyone seen Mels new movie The Passion of Christ?

<hr

/></blockquote>

Yes.

Holmes

<hr /></blockquote>

Well

Siskel...What\'d ya think?

Elana

02-28-2004, 10:32 AM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Too anti-Jewish (the Romans did it, and Pilate was a

nasty, not a reluctant nice).

<hr /></blockquote>

What she said

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

bjf

02-28-2004, 10:40 AM

And because

of that it will only contribute to the myths....I\'ve had to endure sh!t from christians who didn\'t have the

story straight because of those myths. Portraying events falsely in a movie that millions will see is a huge

diservice.

Elana

02-28-2004, 10:48 AM

Unfortunately it has already flared up quite a bit of hate. One Baptist church put up a huge sign that read \"The

Jews killed our Lord.\" There have been several incidences already of blatant anti-Semitism. On a brighter note,

many Jewish and Christian groups have got together to discuss the issue and bring the truth to the table.

Kari

02-28-2004, 10:49 AM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
And because of that it will only contribute to the

myths....I\'ve had to endure sh!t from christians who didn\'t have the story straight because of those myths.

Portraying events falsely in a movie that millions will see is a huge diservice.

<hr /></blockquote>

Well, one of the most oft-mentioned criticisms seems to be.... our Mel seems to have a bit of

an S&M thing going. Some of the critics also noted that there was a \"quasi-crucifixion\" in Braveheart. One

critic called the flick \"The Jesus Chainsaw Massacre.\"

For more.. read rottentomatoes.com

bjf

02-28-2004, 10:53 AM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
And because of that it will only contribute to the myths....I\'ve had to

endure sh!t from christians who didn\'t have the story straight because of those myths. Portraying events falsely

in a movie that millions will see is a huge diservice.

<hr /></blockquote>

Well, one

of the most oft-mentioned criticisms seems to be.... our Mel seems to have a bit of an S&M thing going. Some of

the critics also noted that there was a \"quasi-crucifixion\" in Braveheart. One critic called the flick \"The

Jesus Chainsaw Massacre.\"

For more.. read rottentomatoes.com

<hr /></blockquote>

A lot of his sentiments goes back to the family he was raised in. When that stuff gets

hammered into your brain as a kid, most people are deeply affected by it.

Kari

02-28-2004, 10:54 AM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Unfortunately it has already flared up quite a bit

of hate. One Baptist church put up a huge sign that read \"The Jews killed our Lord.\" There have been several

incidences already of blatant anti-Semitism. On a brighter note, many Jewish and Christian groups have got together

to discuss the issue and bring the truth to the table.

<hr /></blockquote>

Elana\'s right. BTW-- the baptist church\'s own congregants made the church take the sign

down. NUMEROUS reviewers are pointing out the anti-Jewish content AND the historical distortion that blames the

Jews.
(A couple of reveiwers also noted that the \"Jews\" in the movie mostly seemed to have hooked noses and

crooked teeth, while the \"Romans\" were more attractive and hygienic). We\'re getting into Renaissance Shylock

stereotypes, here. YIKES!

I think that will bite Mel in the butt, in very short order.

Kari

02-28-2004, 10:56 AM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
And because

of that it will only contribute to the myths....I\'ve had to endure sh!t from christians who didn\'t have the

story straight because of those myths. Portraying events falsely in a movie that millions will see is a huge

diservice.

<hr /></blockquote>

Well, one of the most oft-mentioned criticisms seems

to be.... our Mel seems to have a bit of an S&M thing going. Some of the critics also noted that there was a

\"quasi-crucifixion\" in Braveheart. One critic called the flick \"The Jesus Chainsaw Massacre.\"

For more..

read rottentomatoes.com

<hr /></blockquote>

A lot of his sentiments goes back to the

family he was raised in. When that stuff gets hammered into your brain as a kid, most people are deeply affected by

it.

<hr /></blockquote>

Yep. But, don\'t try to force it on others. Looks

like Mel is a legend in his own mind. BTW-- He says \"the holy spirit\" helped him write it.

Elana

02-28-2004, 10:56 AM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
(A couple of reveiwers also noted that the

\"Jews\" in the movie mostly seemed to have hooked noses and crooked teeth, while the \"Romans\" were more

attractive and hygienic). We\'re getting into Renaissance Shylock stereotypes, here. YIKES!

<hr

/></blockquote>
I heard that as well. The Jews were dirty and had rotten teeth and eye

patches. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif WTF?

Kari

02-28-2004, 10:58 AM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
(A couple of reveiwers also noted that the \"Jews\" in the movie mostly

seemed to have hooked noses and crooked teeth, while the \"Romans\" were more attractive and hygienic). We\'re

getting into Renaissance Shylock stereotypes, here. YIKES!

<hr /></blockquote>
I

heard that as well. The Jews were dirty and had rotten teeth and eye patches.

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif WTF?

<hr /></blockquote>

.. and

also overlooked the fact that Jesus WAS a Jew.

bjf

02-28-2004, 10:59 AM

Yea and also

side profiles showing the big noses.

Truthfully, I don\'t care if they make them look like crap, the problem

is, most young people - or everyone for that matter - get their information from mass media, and this movie is going

to be huggggeeeee, and shape beliefs.

Kari

02-28-2004, 10:59 AM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
(A couple of reveiwers also noted that the \"Jews\" in the movie mostly

seemed to have hooked noses and crooked teeth, while the \"Romans\" were more attractive and hygienic). We\'re

getting into Renaissance Shylock stereotypes, here. YIKES!

<hr /></blockquote>
I

heard that as well. The Jews were dirty and had rotten teeth and eye patches.

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif WTF?

<hr /></blockquote>

BTW--

None of my friends are going to pay to see that movie, either. We won\'t even rent it.

Elana

02-28-2004, 11:00 AM

I

wouldn\'t give Mel a dime. For that matter I wouldn\'t watch this film or anything else he does, even if he paid

me.

Holmes

02-28-2004, 11:01 AM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Well Siskel...What\'d ya think?

<hr

/></blockquote>

Revolting. Endless (unbelievably graphic) brutality peppered with a few

flashbacks. That\'s basically it. Quite a few people walked out.

Heavily skewed (as in anti-semitic). What\'s

that headed in Mel\'s direction? Oh, a ration of sh*t!

So yeah, go see it!

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Holmes

Kari

02-28-2004, 11:01 AM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Yea and also side profiles showing the big

noses.

Truthfully, I don\'t care if they make them look like crap, the problem is, most young people - or

everyone for that matter - get their information from mass media, and this movie is going to be huggggeeeee, and

shape beliefs.

<hr /></blockquote>

I hope it\'s a temporary hysteria. I am not a

Christian (or a member of any OTHER reigion, for that matter). But, from what I\'ve read, I would doubt that the

movie portrays the spirit or intention of Christianity.

Kari

02-28-2004, 11:04 AM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
I wouldn\'t give Mel a dime. For that matter I

wouldn\'t watch this film or anything else he does, even if he paid me.

<hr /></blockquote>

That\'s what a couple of Jewish studio heads said, too, Elana. I think Mel made a very bad

career move.

BTW-- the day after the movie openeing, there were 122 eBay auctions for \"nail pendants.\" If I

was a JFK worshipper, would I wear a little bullet around me neck? Weird!

Elana

02-28-2004, 11:10 AM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Well Siskel...What\'d ya think?

<hr /></blockquote>

Revolting. Endless (unbelievably graphic) brutality peppered with a few flashbacks. That\'s

basically it. Quite a few people walked out.

Heavily skewed (as in anti-semitic). What\'s that headed in

Mel\'s direction? Oh, a ration of sh*t!

So yeah, go see it!

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Holmes

<hr /></blockquote>

I

will take that as a thumbs way down. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Holmes

02-28-2004, 11:15 AM

Mel\'s

an incredible actor and director just the same. And the movie was amazingly well-crafted (content and commentary

aside). But, rest assured, he will be hammered for this.

As horrifying an experience as it was, for

it\'s uniqueness and it\'s gumption I would still call it good art.

Holmes

Kari

02-28-2004, 11:21 AM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Mel\'s an incredible actor and director just the

same. And the movie was amazingly well-crafted (content and commentary aside). But, rest assured, he will be

hammered for this.

As horrifying an experience as it was, for it\'s uniqueness and it\'s gumption I

would still call it good art.

Holmes

<hr /></blockquote>

Maybe.. but I like my

art served with a lighter hand. I hate to be hammered over the head by it. That\'s why I don\'t care for Wagner.

CJ01

02-28-2004, 11:24 AM

The debate

about this film reminds of what happened when `the last temptation of christÂ´ was out.
Some christians donÂ´t like

jesus christ superstar, they call it sacriligous.

I donÂ´t bother with cinema much these days, theyÂ´re just too

expensive and most films donÂ´t tempt me enough to pay the money /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

IÂ´m still curious to see the film at some point though because I want to make up my own mind about it. I can still

appreciate an actors performance or costumes etc even if I donÂ´t like whatÂ´s going on in a film or the contents of

it (I rarely fully agree with them anyway)

Holmes

02-28-2004, 11:25 AM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
I will take that as a thumbs way down.

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

<hr /></blockquote>

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif Yes and no. On an aesthetic level, unbelievable.

However, the

perspective was pretty f*cked up. Pinning it all on the Jews (and thus exonerating the Romans) didn\'t sit too

well. At all.

Holmes

Elana

02-28-2004, 11:28 AM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
However, the perspective was pretty f*cked up.

Pinning it all on the Jews (and thus exonerating the Romans) didn\'t sit too well. At all.

<hr

/></blockquote>

Mel\'s got an agenda.

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

franki

02-28-2004, 11:29 AM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />

Mel\'s got an agenda.

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

<hr /></blockquote>

no shi!t!

Kari

02-28-2004, 11:30 AM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />

Mel\'s got an agenda.

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

<hr /></blockquote>

no shi!t!

<hr /></blockquote>

He\'s a 1950s conservative Roman Catholic.

CJ01

02-28-2004, 11:31 AM

Is he actually

against jews like the nazis were or did he try to make a film which has a strong relation with how he was raised ?

Kari

02-28-2004, 11:31 AM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
The debate about this film reminds of what happened

when `the last temptation of christÂ´ was out.
Some christians donÂ´t like jesus christ superstar, they call it

sacriligous.

I donÂ´t bother with cinema much these days, theyÂ´re just too expensive and most films donÂ´t tempt me

enough to pay the money /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif IÂ´m still curious to see the film at some

point though because I want to make up my own mind about it. I can still appreciate an actors performance or

costumes etc even if I donÂ´t like whatÂ´s going on in a film or the contents of it (I rarely fully agree with them

anyway)

<hr /></blockquote>

I go to films for escape. I don\'t think this

will do it. <g>

Kari

02-28-2004, 11:32 AM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Is he actually against jews like the nazis were or

is did he try to make a film which has a strong relation with how he was raised ?

<hr /></blockquote>

The latter, I think.

Holmes

02-28-2004, 11:32 AM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
no shi!t!

<hr /></blockquote>

Being the son of a Neo-Nazi will do wonders for one\'s agenda.

Holmes

franki

02-28-2004, 11:33 AM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />

Being the son of a Neo-Nazi will do wonders for

one\'s agenda.

<hr /></blockquote>

I didn\'t know that. I thought he was

just a hardcore catholic. They used to be pretty anti-semitic as well in the past..

Kari

02-28-2004, 11:33 AM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
no shi!t!

<hr /></blockquote>

Being the son of

a Neo-Nazi will do wonders for one\'s agenda.

Holmes

<hr /></blockquote>

You

know.. I\'m not sure he THINKS his dad is neo-nazi.

Holmes

02-28-2004, 11:35 AM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
I go to films for escape.

<hr

/></blockquote>

Then this might be a film you\'ll want to escape

from.

Holmes

bjf

02-28-2004, 11:35 AM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Is he actually against jews like the nazis were or

did he try to make a film which has a strong relation with how he was raised ?

<hr /></blockquote>

Good question. What if his father what if his father took is beliefs beyond the religio and

more geered toward extremism?

What do you answer then?

Sometimes religion is open to interpretation, like how

there are extremists in the Muslim faith that are into jihad.

However, other Muslims interpret thing very

differently.

Kari

02-28-2004, 11:36 AM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />

Being the son of a Neo-Nazi will do wonders for one\'s agenda.

<hr /></blockquote>

I didn\'t know that. I thought he was just a hardcore catholic.

They used to be pretty anti-semitic as well in the past..

<hr /></blockquote>

His dad

says the Jewish Holocaust was exaggerated greatly. And, that the Jews and the Masons are conspiring to control the

world. Which is weird, since for a long time te Jews couldn\'t join the Masons.

CJ01

02-28-2004, 11:41 AM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
And, that the Jews and the Masons are conspiring to

control the world.

<hr /></blockquote> I always had the impression that psychopaths and

idiots conspired to rule the world.
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Kari

02-28-2004, 11:43 AM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
And, that the Jews and the Masons are conspiring to control the world.

<hr /></blockquote> I always had the impression that psychopaths and idiots conspired to

rule the world.
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

<hr /></blockquote>

No, they\'re (the psychopaths and idiots) the ones that WON.

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

bjf

02-28-2004, 11:43 AM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />

Being the

son of a Neo-Nazi will do wonders for one\'s agenda.

<hr /></blockquote>

I

didn\'t know that. I thought he was just a hardcore catholic. They used to be pretty anti-semitic as well in the

past..

<hr /></blockquote>

His dad says the Jewish Holocaust was exaggerated greatly.

And, that the Jews and the Masons are conspiring to control the world. Which is weird, since for a long time te Jews

couldn\'t join the Masons.

<hr /></blockquote>

Yes, it takes someone special to

pull out of a situation like that. Children are taught to believe that there parents are right.

The same goes

for choosing your religion, political views, etc.

Many people end up mimicing their parent belief because that is

what is right\", and if you can step back, take a look at all the options with an open mind, then you can truely

say your beliefs are your own.

Problem is, it is difficult for people to have an open mind when their beliefs

have been shaped.

Kari

02-28-2004, 11:57 AM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
<blockquote>Quote:<hr

/>
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />

Being the son of a Neo-Nazi will do wonders

for one\'s agenda.

<hr /></blockquote>

I didn\'t know that. I thought he

was just a hardcore catholic. They used to be pretty anti-semitic as well in the past..

<hr

/></blockquote>

His dad says the Jewish Holocaust was exaggerated greatly. And, that the

Jews and the Masons are conspiring to control the world. Which is weird, since for a long time te Jews couldn\'t

join the Masons.

<hr /></blockquote>

Yes, it takes someone special to pull out of a

situation like that. Children are taught to believe that there parents are right.

The same goes for choosing

your religion, political views, etc.

Many people end up mimicing their parent belief because that is what is

right\", and if you can step back, take a look at all the options with an open mind, then you can truely say your

beliefs are your own.

Problem is, it is difficult for people to have an open mind when their beliefs have been

shaped.

<hr /></blockquote>

Sorry.. I was raised by a southern-Baptist-fundie,

quasi-nazi. No sympathy, here.

Rakesh

02-28-2004, 11:57 AM

Well

without antisemitism we can\'t deny that 1)ethnical jews do tend to be nasaly challenged 2)historical romans were

of the blonde blue eyed sort (those genes dissapeared over time though, as fair haired genes always

do).
Furthermore, the bad hygiene thing isn\'t so far from truth either. Unlike the rest of the world, the romans

actually had a bath once in a while. It\'s not just the jews, everywhere outside the empire was a bit...rugged.

Elana

02-28-2004, 12:00 PM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Well without antisemitism we can\'t deny that

1)ethnical jews do tend to be nasaly challenged 2)historical romans were of the blonde blue eyed sort (those genes

dissapeared over time though, as fair haired genes always do).
Furthermore, the bad hygiene thing isn\'t so far

from truth either. Unlike the rest of the world, the romans actually had a bath once in a while. It\'s not just

the jews, everywhere outside the empire was a bit...rugged.

<hr /></blockquote>

This

clean, fair skinned, blonde haired, blue eyed, small nosed Jew begs to differ.

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Adgenda....not accuracy

CJ01

02-28-2004, 12:02 PM

ItÂ´s because

of such bizarre notions and hatred feelings that hatred keeps going. ItÂ´s taught and passed on from one generation

to the next, so how can it end? ItÂ´s just not healthy.
A parent who does this to his child ainÂ´t doing them a

favour but is it the parents fault, or the previous one in Mels case?Another aspect to speculate about.

franki

02-28-2004, 12:03 PM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Well without antisemitism we can\'t deny that

1)ethnical jews do tend to be nasaly challenged 2)historical romans were of the blonde blue eyed sort (those genes

dissapeared over time though, as fair haired genes always do).

<hr /></blockquote>

blahh, what a bunch of %%%%

Elana

02-28-2004, 12:06 PM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Well without antisemitism we can\'t deny that

1)ethnical jews do tend to be nasaly challenged 2)historical romans were of the blonde blue eyed sort (those genes

dissapeared over time though, as fair haired genes always do).
Furthermore, the bad hygiene thing isn\'t so far

from truth either. Unlike the rest of the world, the romans actually had a bath once in a while. It\'s not just

the jews, everywhere outside the empire was a bit...rugged.

<hr /></blockquote>

If

you know anything about the Jewish religion, you will know that cleanliness is intertwined with many traditions.

Think Kosher...think Mikvahs.....Jews were not any less clean than the Roman\'s. That is ridiculous. Who told you

that, Mel? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

CJ01

02-28-2004, 12:06 PM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Unlike the rest of the world, the romans actually

had a bath once in a while.

<hr /></blockquote> the japanese have always been known to

value hygene very highly

OCP

02-28-2004, 12:06 PM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Has anyone seen Mels new movie The Passion of Christ?

I wouldn\'t mind

going but I hate movies with subtitles.

<hr /></blockquote>

Not going. Too much

diversion from both history AND the Bible. Much more violent than the gospels would indicate (I have read the Bible,

but am not a believer, BTW). Too anti-Jewish (the Romans did it, and Pilate was a nasty, not a reluctant nice).

Most of all, I\'m not gonna pay that little actor to proslityze me (spelling?).

<hr /></blockquote>

I will see it. I am curious to see how accurate it is. As being violent; Roman crucifiction

was a violent, painful and slow way to die. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif

OCP

02-28-2004, 12:08 PM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
And because of that it will only contribute to the

myths....I\'ve had to endure sh!t from christians who didn\'t have the story straight because of those myths.

Portraying events falsely in a movie that millions will see is a huge diservice.

<hr /></blockquote>

Which myths are speaking of? I agree that the \"church\" has created alot of myths about

Jesus over the centuries, but I am curious which ones made it into the movie.

Holmes

02-28-2004, 12:09 PM

The actual

crucifiction wasn\'t even the half of it.

Holmes

OCP

02-28-2004, 12:10 PM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Unfortunately it has already flared up quite a bit

of hate. One Baptist church put up a huge sign that read \"The Jews killed our Lord.\" There have been several

incidences already of blatant anti-Semitism.

<hr /></blockquote>

That is just plain

sad.

Rakesh

02-28-2004, 12:10 PM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />

blahh, what a bunch of %%%%

<hr

/></blockquote>
Not really. I have history, you have only feelings.

Elana

02-28-2004, 12:11 PM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />

blahh, what a bunch of %%%%

<hr /></blockquote>

Not really. I have history, you have only feelings.

<hr /></blockquote>

You have

history? Please provide some links or sources.

Rakesh

02-28-2004, 12:14 PM

Umm do you

really need scientific proof that the Jews tend to have significant noses?
And the other half about romans

originally being fair haired, that is also a known thing.
Does it mean anything about anybody\'s superiority or

inferiority? No. I don\'t know which part of this appeared as \"%%%%%\" to Franki.

CJ01

02-28-2004, 12:14 PM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
2)historical romans were of the blonde blue eyed

sort (those genes dissapeared over time though, as fair haired genes always do).

<hr /></blockquote> okay but whereÂ´s some proof? I want to know about this, for evolutionary reasons, not religious

mind /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif And donÂ´t tell me that you got your info from the movies

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

OCP

02-28-2004, 12:15 PM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Unfortunately it has already flared up quite a bit of hate. One Baptist

church put up a huge sign that read \"The Jews killed our Lord.\" There have been several incidences already of

blatant anti-Semitism. On a brighter note, many Jewish and Christian groups have got together to discuss the issue

and bring the truth to the table.

<hr /></blockquote>

Elana\'s right. BTW-- the

baptist church\'s own congregants made the church take the sign down. NUMEROUS reviewers are pointing out the

anti-Jewish content AND the historical distortion that blames the Jews.
(A couple of reveiwers also noted that the

\"Jews\" in the movie mostly seemed to have hooked noses and crooked teeth, while the \"Romans\" were more

attractive and hygienic). We\'re getting into Renaissance Shylock stereotypes, here. YIKES!

I think that will

bite Mel in the butt, in very short order.

<hr /></blockquote>

My wife is Jewish

and she is seeing it today. I am very interested to hear her comments and see her reaction.

Elana

02-28-2004, 12:15 PM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Umm do you really need scientific proof that the

Jews tend to have significant noses?

<hr /></blockquote>

I am Jewish. I don\'t

have a big nose. Neither does anyone in my family. Did the Roman\'s have smaller noses then Jews?

CJ01

02-28-2004, 12:16 PM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Umm do you really need scientific proof that the

Jews tend to have significant noses?

<hr /></blockquote> that is bollocks

franki

02-28-2004, 12:17 PM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
No. I don\'t know which part of this appeared as

\"%%%%%\" to Franki.

<hr /></blockquote>

All of it. You have been saying the same

old crap people have repeated for ages. There might be a bit of truth in it, but it is just really OLD.

Elana

02-28-2004, 12:17 PM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Umm do you really need scientific proof that the Jews tend to have

significant noses?

<hr /></blockquote> that is bollocks

<hr /></blockquote>

Yeah...it\'s pretty sad /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

OCP

02-28-2004, 12:19 PM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
I will take that as a thumbs way down.

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

<hr /></blockquote>

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif Yes and no. On an aesthetic level, unbelievable.

However, the

perspective was pretty f*cked up. Pinning it all on the Jews (and thus exonerating the Romans) didn\'t sit too

well. At all.

Holmes

<hr /></blockquote>

True true, after all Pilate could have

stopped it and it was the Romans who actually did the crucifiction.

Rakesh

02-28-2004, 12:19 PM

I\'m not

really up to employing google right now /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Some mosaics show people

with brown or blonde hair, for example. The question is how much this could be done artificially (bleaching), but

the statues don\'t show the modern day italian type either. The world is running out of blondes (stop right there,

90% of blonde people today are bleached) because the darker genes are dominant.

bjf

02-28-2004, 12:20 PM

I wouldn\'t

kill rakeesh on this one, stereo types can be grounded in truth.

There is definitely some shared traits for

jews. I can often tell one by looking (Elana is not one of those people) and people can tell I am jewish.

I have

noticed certain re-ocurring facial features in people in different parts of the United States. That is not to say

people in each region look the same.

It is all about the gene pool.

Elana

02-28-2004, 12:20 PM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Some mosaics show people with brown or blonde hair,

for example.

<hr /></blockquote>

Good proof. I wonder if that is where Mel got his

data too. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Elana

02-28-2004, 12:21 PM

bjf....how

did the Roman\'s differ from the Jews in looks?

bjf

02-28-2004, 12:22 PM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
bjf....how did the Roman\'s differ from the Jews

in looks?

<hr /></blockquote>

I have no clue.

I don\'t know a damn thing about

them. Hell, even people in Israel have those amazing green eyes that jews here often do not have.

OCP

02-28-2004, 12:23 PM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Well without antisemitism we can\'t deny that 1)ethnical jews do tend to be

nasaly challenged 2)historical romans were of the blonde blue eyed sort (those genes dissapeared over time though,

as fair haired genes always do).
Furthermore, the bad hygiene thing isn\'t so far from truth either. Unlike the

rest of the world, the romans actually had a bath once in a while. It\'s not just the jews, everywhere outside the

empire was a bit...rugged.

<hr /></blockquote>

If you know anything about the Jewish

religion, you will know that cleanliness is intertwined with many traditions. Think Kosher...think Mikvahs.....Jews

were not any less clean than the Roman\'s. That is ridiculous. Who told you that, Mel?

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

<hr /></blockquote>

Elana is right

on track here. You tell them! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Rakesh

02-28-2004, 12:27 PM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Good proof. I wonder if that is where Mel got his

data too.

<hr /></blockquote> Apparently, you know better than the romans themselves how

they looked.

The problem is that people think that an ethnic sharing a trait=bad thing. Saying that people in

africa generally tend to be black isn\'t an evil racist attack nor a stereotype.

And just because some things

have been said a thousand times doesn\'t mean they\'re any less true. Apparently, it still wasn\'t said enough

times when some people still don\'t get it.

CJ01

02-28-2004, 12:28 PM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
There is definitely some shared traits for jews. I

can often tell one by looking (Elana is not one of those people) and people can tell I am jewish.

I have noticed

certain re-ocurring facial features in people in different parts of the United States. That is not to say people in

each region look the same.

<hr /></blockquote> IÂ´m quiete good at guessing peoples

nationality or `originsÂ´that way but I honestly canÂ´t say that about someone of a certain religion. And what rakesh

said just sounded like plain old prejudice to me. Also made me think of that scene in `the last metroÂ´ in the

basement. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Elana

02-28-2004, 12:29 PM

You ignored

my proof about Jews and cleanliness. I gave you proof. You are saying that Jews were unclean. I want proof. Show me

something to back up your comments.

CJ01

02-28-2004, 12:31 PM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Saying that people in africa generally tend to be

black isn\'t an evil racist attack nor a stereotype.

<hr /></blockquote> but at least

itÂ´s a fact and itÂ´s not about religion either.

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />

And just because some things have been said a thousand times doesn\'t mean they\'re any less true.

<hr

/></blockquote>
doesnÂ´t mean they are true either

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

bjf

02-28-2004, 12:35 PM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
There is definitely some shared traits for jews. I can often tell one by

looking (Elana is not one of those people) and people can tell I am jewish.

I have noticed certain re-ocurring

facial features in people in different parts of the United States. That is not to say people in each region look the

same.

<hr /></blockquote> IÂ´m quiete good at guessing peoples nationality or

`originsÂ´that way but I honestly canÂ´t say that about someone of a certain religion. And what rakesh said just

sounded like plain old prejudice to me. Also made me think of that scene in `the last metroÂ´ in the basement.

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

<hr /></blockquote>

I don\'t

think he was being prejudice. Sometimes people can get beaten up for saying things that are partly true. The movie

was a load of bs though they way people were depicted. There is a difference between ethnic tendencies and

over-exaggeration\'s of them.

You can tell what nation people are from. yes, this is the shared gene pool

thing. Religions can be different, but since jews are minorities and haven\'t spread out there gene pool as well

(or something) people still ask me who have never met a jew if I am jewish.

I don\'t practice, but if other

people can tell I am jewish by looking at me, I must be Jewish. That is why a lot of jews think of it as an

ethnicity. Not because they choose to believe they are jewish, but because others tell them they are jewish.

Elana

02-28-2004, 12:35 PM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Well without antisemitism we can\'t deny that

1)ethnical jews do tend to be nasaly challenged 2)historical romans were of the blonde blue eyed sort (those genes

dissapeared over time though, as fair haired genes always do).
Furthermore, the bad hygiene thing isn\'t so far

from truth either. Unlike the rest of the world, the romans actually had a bath once in a while. It\'s not just

the jews, everywhere outside the empire was a bit...rugged.

<hr /></blockquote>

Good for Mel and others with like minds. Their agendas really seem to work.

Rakesh

02-28-2004, 12:36 PM

You want

proof?
Romans=baths. Big arse public baths, actually.
Middle east=no baths. Partially because of the general

shortage of water.
You misinterpret me again. It\'s must easier to twist an argument into an attack.

\"Unclean\" sounds pretty offensive, racistic even. But if you think you can go somewhere with not much water and

average temperatures around 40 degrees centigrade AND 2000 years before somebody came up with deodorants and be

clean as a lily...
The Jews were much cleaner than anybody in the area, but the romans were even further. The

conditions just didn\'t allow anything else.

Rakesh

02-28-2004, 12:37 PM

\"but at

least itÂ´s a fact and itÂ´s not about religion either\"
noses are religion?

Elana

02-28-2004, 12:38 PM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
You want proof?
Romans=baths. Big arse public

baths, actually.
Middle east=no baths. Partially because of the general shortage of water.
You misinterpret me

again. It\'s must easier to twist an argument into an attack. \"Unclean\" sounds pretty offensive, racistic

even. But if you think you can go somewhere with not much water and average temperatures around 40 degrees

centigrade AND 2000 years before somebody came up with deodorants and be clean as a lily...
The Jews were much

cleaner than anybody in the area, but the romans were even further. The conditions just didn\'t allow anything

else.

<hr /></blockquote> Read up a bit on Jewish traditions and what they were stemmed

from. You will note just how wrong you are.

Rakesh

02-28-2004, 12:38 PM

lol

agendas?
Evil bad naughty politically incorrect history books, gotta sue them

Elana

02-28-2004, 12:40 PM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
lol agendas?
Evil bad naughty politically

incorrect history books, gotta sue them

<hr /></blockquote>

You are right. I was just

reading a funny story in my history book about this ugly Jew with a huge nose wearing an eye patch. It was so funny.

I can\'t wait to see the ending. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Rakesh

02-28-2004, 12:41 PM

I can\'t

believe im being bashed because I said that romans had more baths than the jews and that the jews tend to have a

specific visage....

bjf

02-28-2004, 12:42 PM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
lol agendas?
Evil bad naughty politically incorrect history books, gotta sue

them

<hr /></blockquote>

You are right. I was just reading a funny story in my

history book about this ugly Jew with a huge nose wearing an eye patch. It was so funny. I can\'t wait to see the

ending. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

<hr /></blockquote>

Yea,

if the jews were all ugly in the movie, that is saying something right there about his opinion of them.

Elana

02-28-2004, 12:42 PM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
I can\'t believe im being bashed because I said

that romans had more baths than the jews and that the jews tend to have a specific visage....

<hr

/></blockquote>
You are saying that history says this and that about Jews. What you are

saying is not true. Should I just sit here and let you say whatever you feel like saying and not argue with you If I

feel that you are completely wrong?

Rakesh

02-28-2004, 12:45 PM

Will you

stop twisting everything I say into racistic attacks?
I never said \"ugly\" nor \"eye patch\". I said \"big

nose\" which is both a significantly rooted stereotype and my personal experience. Maybe european jews are

different from american ones, I dunno, I only met the local ones.

Elana

02-28-2004, 12:47 PM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Will you stop twisting everything I say into

racistic attacks?
I never said \"ugly\" nor \"eye patch\". I said \"big nose\" which is both a significantly

rooted stereotype and my personal experience. Maybe european jews are different from american ones, I dunno, I only

met the local ones.

<hr /></blockquote>

You got no twisting from me.

bjf

02-28-2004, 12:50 PM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Will you stop twisting everything I say into

racistic attacks?
I never said \"ugly\" nor \"eye patch\". I said \"big nose\" which is both a significantly

rooted stereotype and my personal experience. Maybe european jews are different from american ones, I dunno, I only

met the local ones.

<hr /></blockquote>

I think Russian jews tend to have bigger

noses.

All of my descendents are from there.

Regardless, the movie doesn\'t depict the people right, though

I understand you trying to say how some of it could be partially true. I don\'t think you are saying, however,

that they necessarily got it right, no?

Rakesh

02-28-2004, 12:53 PM

Then what

was the \"ugly\" and \"eyepatch\" business you added to my words to make them sound hateful?
History says

this and that, but I don\'t think I made any radical statements which would conflict any common knowledge. Which

point sounds wrong to you?
1)the roman empire was the most developped civilisation in the western world
2)the

roman empire had bath houses
3)people in the middle east did not have bath houses
4)it is often possible to

recognize a person of jewish (or almost any other) origin by certain typical facial features

EDIT: I never

defended the movie. The movie is pure rubbish, and it appears I was misunderstood and became the devil\'s

advocate. I was talking absolutely independently on the movie and everything depicted therein.

CJ01

02-28-2004, 12:54 PM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Maybe european jews are different from american

ones, I dunno, I only met the local ones.

<hr /></blockquote> well the jewish people

that I know in Europe are just not like that and some of them are from Israel

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif
I know some iranians to which the trait `big noseÂ´applies but

that is not a religious thing, itÂ´s about their origin and theyÂ´re not jewish btw. Some peole have converted and

became jews, and you canÂ´t tell that by looking at them.

Elana

02-28-2004, 12:56 PM

A tad bit

of history. I have to run out now, but if anyone wants more I can provide them with an endless

supply

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
The Bible introduces three rudiments of

healthful existence: rest, cleanliness, and prophylaxis. The weekly rest-day was unique to Judaic precepts. Cecil

Roth quotes \"the great medical historian, Karl Sudhoff: â€˜Had Judaism given nothing more to mankind than the

establishment of a weekly day of rest, we should still be forced to proclaim her one of the greatest benefactors of

humanity.â€™\"1

Physical purity (cleanliness) is placed on a par with spiritual purity. Davidâ€™s supplication to

God, \"Wash me thoroughly from my iniquity, and cleanse me from my sin (Ps. 51:4), is one of a myriad of references

to the concept of washing to achieve purity. An admonition to the sinner is a Divine imperative. \"For though thou

wash thee with nitre, and take thee much soap, yet thine iniquity is marked before me\" (Jer. 2:22). A Jew could

not enter the temple without bathing if he had done anything to render him impure. A bath had to be taken daily

before reading the Law (Torah); both of which were prescribed for every Jew.

Cleanliness was but part of ancient

Judaic prophylactic practices. The concept of contagion was likewise integral to biblical medical intelligence.

Hygienic laws of impurity after touching a corpse, or of those affected with diseases like gonorrhea or leprosy,

required a thorough washing with nitre or other caustic soaps.

<hr /></blockquote>

Elana

02-28-2004, 12:57 PM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Then what was the \"ugly\" and \"eyepatch\"

business you added to my words to make them sound hateful?

<hr /></blockquote>

Did you

even read my original post? That is what Kari and I said that Mel did to the Jewish character, to which you gave

your reply. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

franki

02-28-2004, 12:57 PM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Maybe european jews are different from american ones, I dunno, I only met

the local ones.

<hr /></blockquote> well the jewish people that I know in Europe are

just not like that and some of them are from Israel /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif
I know some

iranians to which the trait `big noseÂ´applies but that is not a religious thing, itÂ´s about their origin and theyÂ´re

not jewish btw. Some peole have converted and became jews, and you canÂ´t tell that by looking at them.

<hr

/></blockquote>

Yeah, Arabs are said to have big noses as well..

bjf

02-28-2004, 12:57 PM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Maybe european jews are different from american ones, I dunno, I only met

the local ones.

<hr /></blockquote> well the jewish people that I know in Europe are

just not like that and some of them are from Israel /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif
I know some

iranians to which the trait `big noseÂ´applies but that is not a religious thing, itÂ´s about their origin and theyÂ´re

not jewish btw. Some peole have converted and became jews, and you canÂ´t tell that by looking at them.

<hr

/></blockquote>

Don\'t Russian men have bigger noses anyway, or am I wrong about this?

CJ01

02-28-2004, 12:57 PM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
I think Russian jews tend to have bigger noses.

<hr /></blockquote> thanks thatÂ´s what I mean. ItÂ´s more about genetic heritage rather

than a religious one.

I mean thereÂ´s also russian christians, so do they have smaller noses

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

CJ01

02-28-2004, 01:01 PM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Don\'t Russian men have bigger noses anyway, or

am I wrong about this?

<hr /></blockquote> I guess some have big noses but IÂ´ve seen

russians (and polish) with `ordinaryÂ´ ones /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
IÂ´ve seen russian

men with red noses too, theyÂ´re vodkaians /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

bjf

02-28-2004, 01:03 PM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
A tad bit of history. I have to run out now, but

if anyone wants more I can provide them with an endless supply

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
The Bible introduces three rudiments of healthful existence: rest,

cleanliness, and prophylaxis. The weekly rest-day was unique to Judaic precepts. Cecil Roth quotes \"the great

medical historian, Karl Sudhoff: â€˜Had Judaism given nothing more to mankind than the establishment of a weekly day

of rest, we should still be forced to proclaim her one of the greatest benefactors of humanity.â€™\"1

Physical

purity (cleanliness) is placed on a par with spiritual purity. Davidâ€™s supplication to God, \"Wash me thoroughly

from my iniquity, and cleanse me from my sin (Ps. 51:4), is one of a myriad of references to the concept of washing

to achieve purity. An admonition to the sinner is a Divine imperative. \"For though thou wash thee with nitre, and

take thee much soap, yet thine iniquity is marked before me\" (Jer. 2:22). A Jew could not enter the temple without

bathing if he had done anything to render him impure. A bath had to be taken daily before reading the Law (Torah);

both of which were prescribed for every Jew.

Cleanliness was but part of ancient Judaic prophylactic practices.

The concept of contagion was likewise integral to biblical medical intelligence. Hygienic laws of impurity after

touching a corpse, or of those affected with diseases like gonorrhea or leprosy, required a thorough washing with

nitre or other caustic soaps.

<hr /></blockquote>

<hr /></blockquote>

If you do not believe this, just watch the toothbrush episode of Seinfeld!!

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Rakesh

02-28-2004, 01:06 PM

The

article doesn\'t really contradict anything I said. I did state that the Jews had better hygiene than most, but I

do believe the romans had more:)

How often did regular baths take place? This particular question is a real

ordinary question without any traps waiting around it, so please answer:)

BTW washing with nitre....I know only a

few ways to obtain nitre naturally, and all of them contain either urine or manure:) The easiest is to scrape

salpeter off stable walls.

Elana

02-28-2004, 01:09 PM

You are in

a corner. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Rakesh

02-28-2004, 01:11 PM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Did you even read my original post? That is what

Kari and I said that Mel did to the Jewish character, to which you gave your reply

<hr /></blockquote> But the post in which you used those words was a reaction to my post about history books. You are

confusing me with the movie.

Elana

02-28-2004, 01:12 PM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Did you even read my original post? That is what Kari and I said that Mel did

to the Jewish character, to which you gave your reply

<hr /></blockquote> But the post

in which you used those words was a reaction to my post about history books. You are confusing me with the movie.

<hr /></blockquote>

You defended Mel\'s characterization of the Jews. What am I

missing here? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

Rakesh

02-28-2004, 01:16 PM

Certainly

not.
You negate things I never said. Jewish hygiene wasn\'t BAD. But the romans, well, their hygiene was a

completely different league.

Rakesh

02-28-2004, 01:17 PM

\"You

defended Mel\'s characterization of the Jews. What am I missing here?\"
The thing you are missing is that I was

not defending Mel\'s characterisation of the jews

Rakesh

02-28-2004, 01:33 PM

A friend

of mine who is not a registered user here but was notified about the discussion asked me to post his two cents, so

here goes:
\"In this time period there was a very small elite involving for the most part priests and former kings

who would have wealth in israel and were also jews. Compare this to the tens of thousands of peasantry in the area,

it would be difficult to accurately portray a society around 2000 years before crest and economized soap as being

clean cut with a nice set of pearly whites.
Compare this of course with the Romans over there They were either

a)rulers who would have massive amounts of wealth at their hands
b) merchants again possessing considerable

wealth
or lastly
c) soldiers who are being most likely provided with many amenities as well as having a hefty

paycheck which would permit them to be clean cut and have good hygeine

further more romans were very concerned

about physical appearance, similar to the egyptians, they were generally clean cut or had trimmed beards and hair.

Jews on the other hand traditionally grew beards long, and it would be unreasonable to think that a poor farmer

would spend his entire wages upon some method of beard control. So quite simply, you are wrong\"

Then he already

has some remarks to the \"Unfortunately it has already flared up quite a bit of hate. One Baptist church put up a

huge sign that read \"The Jews killed our Lord.\" There have been several incidences already of blatant

anti-Semitism. On a brighter note, many Jewish and Christian groups have got together to discuss the issue and bring

the truth to the table.\" thing.
\"Southern Baptist, not Baptist genius. And seeing as these are the same

people who ban disney movies and barbies and the like because they are tools of satan, I\'d say that the movie is

not the cause of that.\"

Not only devil\'s advocate, spokesman of the nine hells too. Yay.

CJ01

02-28-2004, 02:01 PM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
further more romans were very concerned about

physical appearance, similar to the egyptians, they were generally clean cut or had trimmed beards and hair. Jews on

the other hand traditionally grew beards long, and it would be unreasonable to think that a poor farmer would spend

his entire wages upon some method of beard control. So quite simply, you are wrong\"

<hr

/></blockquote> thanks for posting your mates opinion btw he could register and post himself

too /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

I have something to add to this tho. Not all romans very

wealthy and many were poor. So the statement says that the jews who were poor could not afford the personal hygene

like the romans did. But what about the poorer romans?

As I understand it the comparison is very much focused

between the poorer jews and the wealthier of the romans. Which is not fair if you will as there were pleanty of

roman peasants who didnÂ´t have the same means as the rich ones.

The main problem with this statement is that it

speaks more of grooming rather than actual personal hygene which are not always the same thing

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

CJ

Rakesh

02-28-2004, 02:03 PM

Speaking

for myself, I\'m pretty sure he meant the romans in israel, not romans in the entire empire. Gives sense that the

occupants don\'t plow the fields /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Speaking for my friend

: \"generally lazy or rather lazy enough that I\'m not going to become a member of another forum for this

topic\"

EXIT63

02-29-2004, 04:48 AM

WOO-HOO

We\'re back in business.

Did anyone hear the interview with Mels father. They\'ve been

playing it a lot on the Stern Show.

Anyway, the father is a complete nut-job. Even going as far as saying

the holocaust didn\'t happen and that holocaust museums are only in business to make money.

Pretty scary

huh.

Elana

02-29-2004, 04:51 AM

Rakesh...I

have read many of your posts in the past and consider you to be a bright guy. In this case you seem to have put your

foot in your mouth and said something that was not only wrong, it was beyond wrong. If you care to continue trying

to tell me how Jews may have been clean but just not as clean as the Roman\'s, or all Roman\'s were rich and all

Jews were poor so the rich Roman\'s had more baths than the Jews and the Jews had less than the Roman\'s and

blah, blah, blah....I will tell you again....you are wrong. Jews had to bathe before the entered the temple. They

did that everyday. Many, many Jewish traditions which started from the beginning of Judaism where based on

cleanliness. That is why Kosher eating was starting. Now we continue eating this way because of tradition.

I

do not think that you are prejudice in the slightest. I do feel that you are falling for the typical stereotype of

the Jewish person.

CJ01

02-29-2004, 05:19 AM

Just want to

point out that many jewish women still like a big sausage nonetheless

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Elana

02-29-2004, 05:23 AM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Just want to point out that many jewish women still

like a big sausage nonetheless /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

<hr

/></blockquote>
I LOVE a big sausage!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

EXIT63

02-29-2004, 05:35 AM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Just want to point out that many jewish women still like a big sausage

nonetheless /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

<hr /></blockquote>
I LOVE a big

sausage!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

<hr

/></blockquote>

As long as it\'s kosher.

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

Elana

02-29-2004, 05:37 AM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Just want to

point out that many jewish women still like a big sausage nonetheless

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

<hr /></blockquote>
I LOVE a big

sausage!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

<hr

/></blockquote>

As long as it\'s kosher.

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

<hr /></blockquote>

Nah...as long

as it is juicy /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

EXIT63

02-29-2004, 05:52 AM

and lean

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

bjf

02-29-2004, 07:03 AM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
and lean

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

<hr /></blockquote>

I thought it was

all about girth?? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Holmes

02-29-2004, 07:12 AM

Wayne was

cooler.

Holmes

Kari

02-29-2004, 07:57 AM

MEL: I

FORGIVE THEM

Feb 28 2004

For the critics know not what they do, says Mel

From Anthony Harwood Us

Editor In New York

Â

MEL GIBSON said yesterday he \"forgives\" critics of his controversial film

about the crucifixion.

The Passion of the Christ has been slammed as too bloody and violent and conmemned as

anti-Semitic.

But Gibson said: \"I forgive them and I try to act in a way of love, even to those who

persecute you. Very much like the film.\"

He admitted it includes scenes of unspeakable cruelty but said:

\"The Bible is R-rated. I mean, look at that book ... that\'s a hot book.\"

The Lethal Weapon star said

the violence was not \"gratuitous\", adding: \"Why am I being picked on for this? There\'s far more violent

movies\" - such as Quentin Tarantino\'s Kill Bill. Gibson, who got a standing ovation on Jay Leno\'s TV chat

show, said he was shocked by the \"prejudgment and condemnation\" that began a year ago when the script was

leaked.

\"For a year it\'s been nothing but nasty editorials and name calling,\" he said.

Of the

anti-Semitism allegations he said: \"It\'s wrong, it\'s unconscionable ... that\'s not what the film\'s

about. It\'s about tolerance. The film is true to the gospels and it\'s not anti-Semitic.\"

The film,

which opened across America this week, took more than Â£40million on its first day and could become one of the

biggest hits ever.

The controversy is fast becoming the butt of jokes on American TV.

One pundit on CNN

quipped: \"Mel Gibson has denied charges of anti-Semitism over his new movie Lethal Rabbi.\"

Leno joined in

when Gibson said he had poured Â£15million of his own money into it because Hollywood was not interested.

The

chat host said: \"The studios said they would have paid for it but they wanted a more upbeat ending.\"

And

he joked that it was doing so well \"there\'s talk of turning it into a book\".

Â

Elana

02-29-2004, 08:03 AM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
MEL: I FORGIVE THEM

<hr /></blockquote>

Phew...I\'ll sleep so much better tonight. Mel\'s forgiveness means the world to me.

Holmes

02-29-2004, 08:08 AM

Mel need da

weed, mon. I an\' I say, get da mon a fahtwun. G\'wan now.

Holmes

Kari

02-29-2004, 08:09 AM

The gospel

according to Mel

By Mac VerStandig, ArtsEtc. Writer
February 27, 2004

For a

film about a man who preached messages of love, it is astounding just how hateful \"The Passion of the Christ\"

truly is. Unrelentingly anti-Semitic, excessively grotesque and overly narrow in its scope, Mel Gibson\'s

controversial film is full of all the wrong sorts of passion.

The movie concerns itself only with the final 12

hours of Jesus\' (James Caviezel) life, depicting Judas\' (Luca Lionello) betrayal in the opening moments of the

picture and wasting little time before commencing to depict the bloodying of Jesus.

Therein lies one of the

movie\'s principal flaws: Gibson selects such a narrow time frame that he is ultimately unable to balance the

atrocities committed against the protagonist with any meaningful inclusion of his teachings. The film does offer a

handful of flashbacks, but they are too few and too short to offer any sort of relief from the film\'s main

objective -- apparently the overly graphic portrayal of Jesus\' suffering.

Indeed, the violence is so brutal

in nature that it not only ranks \"The Passion of the Christ\" as the most grotesque film ever made, but also

shows the errors of the Motion Picture Association of America in not tagging the film with an NC-17 rating.

\"Saving Private Ryan,\" \"Hamburger Hill\" and even Gibson\'s \"Braveheart\" are all graphic in their

nature, but none are near the level of \"The Passion of the Christ.\"

Not only does the film depict Jesus

being rather severely manhandled by the Jews (part of a larger anti-Semitic undertone that will be discussed later),

but the picture also takes care to depict all 39 floggings, counted aloud one at a time. Moreover, the scourging

becomes a bloodbath of nauseating proportions. Jesus\' flesh is violently ripped away as the faces of his beaters

are sprayed with red and the ground around his fallen body slowly becomes a pool.

Although Gibson clearly

wants to be faithful to the sheer brutality that is described in the book of Isaiah, the whippings become so

hyperbolic in nature that the film loses credibility early on. The New Testament is clear that Jesus, although the

Son of Man, was a mortal until his death. Indeed, this theme is central to \"The Passion of the Christ\" as the

film seeks to show the toll of the infamous 12 hours on Jesus\' human body. But the reality is that the scourging

is so brutal that no one could have survived; if the film were concerned with the realities of Jesus\' humanity,

he never would have lived to carry his cross.

Of course, if the lashings are excessively violent, then the

crucifixion itself is pornographic. The film takes great care to slowly depict the driving of the stakes through

Jesus -- never hesitating to show the gushing of his blood in contrast to the carnage of his thorny crown. In

combination with the still-recent lash marks, these images are too much for children or the weak-stomached to handle

and another persuasive argument that the film\'s rating be more restrictive.

It is the totality of this

violence that, in part, lends the film its horrifically anti-Semitic message. Not only does Gibson care to place the

blame almost exclusively on the Jews, but by depicting the torture in such fantastical detail, he also fosters a

growing hatred toward those who would dare subject a man to such brutality.

The contrast is remarkable: Pontius

Pilate (Hristo Shopov) is depicted as a man torn about how to handle Jesus. The film, in a rare scene excluding the

protagonist, shows Pilate\'s careful meditation in great detail, ultimately explaining that he is only willing to

condemn Jesus to death for the greater good of his people, as he fears the uprising that might ensue if he does not

order the crucifixion. Conversely, the Jews are never shown to give their actions any thought whatsoever and are

depicted as controlling Rome and acting with a mob mentality that thirsts for blood alone.

Granted, the Romans

who carry out Pilate\'s fatal order do seem to relish the task, but the message is clear: only the lowliest of

Romans are culpable in Jesus\' death, but even the highest of the Jews shoulder responsibility.

By the time

Barabbas is spared at Jesus\' expense, the anti-Semitic message is already clear. The Jews are emotionless,

bloodthirsty and conniving. The Romans - who, even Gibson must acknowledge, ultimately are the ones to crack a whip

39 times and drive the actual stakes into Jesus - come across as a civilized, compassionate people. As a result,

almost all of the blame is assigned to the Jews, who are shown finding stoic pleasure in these final 12 hours.

Gibson should have reduced the violence, expanded the flashbacks and steered clear of making a film so obsessed

with anti-Semitism that even Simon (Jarreth Merz) ultimately looks bad. Technically, he has the skill to do just

this - the cinematography is already picturesque, the makeup is horrifically realistic and the acting, with the

exception of a scene where Caviezel makes it appear as though Jesus is nodding off in front of Pilate, is stellar.

Moreover, credit should be given where due, and Gibson\'s decision to make the entire movie in Aramaic (with

Romans speaking Street Latin) significantly helps establish the time setting and build intensity.

But not even

these small accomplishments can overshadow the fact that \"The Passion of the Christ\" is a bitter film that uses

excessive violence to foster hatred that this religiously divided world simply doesn\'t need.

Â

Kari

02-29-2004, 08:10 AM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
MEL: I FORGIVE THEM

<hr /></blockquote>

Phew...I\'ll sleep so much better tonight. Mel\'s forgiveness means the world to me.

<hr

/></blockquote>

It should.. you\'re a Jew. According to Mel, you need it more.

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

Kari

02-29-2004, 08:11 AM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Mel need da weed, mon. I an\' I say, get da mon a

fahtwun. G\'wan now.

Holmes

<hr /></blockquote>

BTW-- the flick is still

running \"rotten,\" on rottentomatoes.

Elana

02-29-2004, 08:13 AM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
The gospel according to Mel

By Mac

VerStandig, ArtsEtc. Writer
February 27, 2004

For a film about a man who preached messages

of love, it is astounding just how hateful \"The Passion of the Christ\" truly is. Unrelentingly anti-Semitic,

excessively grotesque and overly narrow in its scope, Mel Gibson\'s controversial film is full of all the wrong

sorts of passion.

The movie concerns itself only with the final 12 hours of Jesus\' (James Caviezel) life,

depicting Judas\' (Luca Lionello) betrayal in the opening moments of the picture and wasting little time before

commencing to depict the bloodying of Jesus.

Therein lies one of the movie\'s principal flaws: Gibson

selects such a narrow time frame that he is ultimately unable to balance the atrocities committed against the

protagonist with any meaningful inclusion of his teachings. The film does offer a handful of flashbacks, but they

are too few and too short to offer any sort of relief from the film\'s main objective -- apparently the overly

graphic portrayal of Jesus\' suffering.

Indeed, the violence is so brutal in nature that it not only ranks

\"The Passion of the Christ\" as the most grotesque film ever made, but also shows the errors of the Motion

Picture Association of America in not tagging the film with an NC-17 rating. \"Saving Private Ryan,\" \"Hamburger

Hill\" and even Gibson\'s \"Braveheart\" are all graphic in their nature, but none are near the level of \"The

Passion of the Christ.\"

Not only does the film depict Jesus being rather severely manhandled by the Jews

(part of a larger anti-Semitic undertone that will be discussed later), but the picture also takes care to depict

all 39 floggings, counted aloud one at a time. Moreover, the scourging becomes a bloodbath of nauseating

proportions. Jesus\' flesh is violently ripped away as the faces of his beaters are sprayed with red and the

ground around his fallen body slowly becomes a pool.

Although Gibson clearly wants to be faithful to the sheer

brutality that is described in the book of Isaiah, the whippings become so hyperbolic in nature that the film loses

credibility early on. The New Testament is clear that Jesus, although the Son of Man, was a mortal until his death.

Indeed, this theme is central to \"The Passion of the Christ\" as the film seeks to show the toll of the infamous

12 hours on Jesus\' human body. But the reality is that the scourging is so brutal that no one could have

survived; if the film were concerned with the realities of Jesus\' humanity, he never would have lived to carry

his cross.

Of course, if the lashings are excessively violent, then the crucifixion itself is pornographic.

The film takes great care to slowly depict the driving of the stakes through Jesus -- never hesitating to show the

gushing of his blood in contrast to the carnage of his thorny crown. In combination with the still-recent lash

marks, these images are too much for children or the weak-stomached to handle and another persuasive argument that

the film\'s rating be more restrictive.

It is the totality of this violence that, in part, lends the film

its horrifically anti-Semitic message. Not only does Gibson care to place the blame almost exclusively on the Jews,

but by depicting the torture in such fantastical detail, he also fosters a growing hatred toward those who would

dare subject a man to such brutality.

The contrast is remarkable: Pontius Pilate (Hristo Shopov) is depicted as

a man torn about how to handle Jesus. The film, in a rare scene excluding the protagonist, shows Pilate\'s careful

meditation in great detail, ultimately explaining that he is only willing to condemn Jesus to death for the greater

good of his people, as he fears the uprising that might ensue if he does not order the crucifixion. Conversely, the

Jews are never shown to give their actions any thought whatsoever and are depicted as controlling Rome and acting

with a mob mentality that thirsts for blood alone.

Granted, the Romans who carry out Pilate\'s fatal order

do seem to relish the task, but the message is clear: only the lowliest of Romans are culpable in Jesus\' death,

but even the highest of the Jews shoulder responsibility.

By the time Barabbas is spared at Jesus\' expense,

the anti-Semitic message is already clear. The Jews are emotionless, bloodthirsty and conniving. The Romans - who,

even Gibson must acknowledge, ultimately are the ones to crack a whip 39 times and drive the actual stakes into

Jesus - come across as a civilized, compassionate people. As a result, almost all of the blame is assigned to the

Jews, who are shown finding stoic pleasure in these final 12 hours.

Gibson should have reduced the violence,

expanded the flashbacks and steered clear of making a film so obsessed with anti-Semitism that even Simon (Jarreth

Merz) ultimately looks bad. Technically, he has the skill to do just this - the cinematography is already

picturesque, the makeup is horrifically realistic and the acting, with the exception of a scene where Caviezel makes

it appear as though Jesus is nodding off in front of Pilate, is stellar.

Moreover, credit should be given where

due, and Gibson\'s decision to make the entire movie in Aramaic (with Romans speaking Street Latin) significantly

helps establish the time setting and build intensity.

But not even these small accomplishments can overshadow

the fact that \"The Passion of the Christ\" is a bitter film that uses excessive violence to foster hatred that

this religiously divided world simply doesn\'t need.

Â

<hr

/></blockquote>
I have read several reviews similar to this one and most are not from Jewish

reviewers.

Holmes

02-29-2004, 08:15 AM

Get da mon

a blunt I say! He den put love inna movie. Israela yakirati, mon. One love.

Holmes

Kari

02-29-2004, 08:20 AM

Â

<hr /></blockquote>
I have read several reviews

similar to this one and most are not from Jewish reviewers.

<hr /></blockquote>

Yes.

I think that after the hysteria passes, people are going to become aware of the fanaticism of the movie.

To

be fair, I don\'t think Mel intended any harm. He says he went from addictions and potential suicide to the 12

stations of the cross (\"they were MY 12 steps\").

I think he may have traded one addiction for another.

But... it\'s apparently still a very nasty piece (I haven\'t seen it, nor will I, nor will my friends--

which are many).

Holmes

02-29-2004, 08:22 AM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
The gospel according to Mel

By Mac VerStandig, ArtsEtc.

Writer
February 27, 2004

For a film about a man who preached messages of love, it is

astounding just how hateful \"The Passion of the Christ\" truly is. Unrelentingly anti-Semitic, excessively

grotesque and overly narrow in its scope, Mel Gibson\'s controversial film is full of all the wrong sorts of

passion.

The movie concerns itself only with the final 12 hours of Jesus\' (James Caviezel) life, depicting

Judas\' (Luca Lionello) betrayal in the opening moments of the picture and wasting little time before commencing

to depict the bloodying of Jesus.

Therein lies one of the movie\'s principal flaws: Gibson selects such a

narrow time frame that he is ultimately unable to balance the atrocities committed against the protagonist with any

meaningful inclusion of his teachings. The film does offer a handful of flashbacks, but they are too few and too

short to offer any sort of relief from the film\'s main objective -- apparently the overly graphic portrayal of

Jesus\' suffering.

Indeed, the violence is so brutal in nature that it not only ranks \"The Passion of the

Christ\" as the most grotesque film ever made, but also shows the errors of the Motion Picture Association of

America in not tagging the film with an NC-17 rating. \"Saving Private Ryan,\" \"Hamburger Hill\" and even

Gibson\'s \"Braveheart\" are all graphic in their nature, but none are near the level of \"The Passion of the

Christ.\"

Not only does the film depict Jesus being rather severely manhandled by the Jews (part of a larger

anti-Semitic undertone that will be discussed later), but the picture also takes care to depict all 39 floggings,

counted aloud one at a time. Moreover, the scourging becomes a bloodbath of nauseating proportions. Jesus\' flesh

is violently ripped away as the faces of his beaters are sprayed with red and the ground around his fallen body

slowly becomes a pool.

Although Gibson clearly wants to be faithful to the sheer brutality that is described

in the book of Isaiah, the whippings become so hyperbolic in nature that the film loses credibility early on. The

New Testament is clear that Jesus, although the Son of Man, was a mortal until his death. Indeed, this theme is

central to \"The Passion of the Christ\" as the film seeks to show the toll of the infamous 12 hours on Jesus\'

human body. But the reality is that the scourging is so brutal that no one could have survived; if the film were

concerned with the realities of Jesus\' humanity, he never would have lived to carry his cross.

Of course,

if the lashings are excessively violent, then the crucifixion itself is pornographic. The film takes great care to

slowly depict the driving of the stakes through Jesus -- never hesitating to show the gushing of his blood in

contrast to the carnage of his thorny crown. In combination with the still-recent lash marks, these images are too

much for children or the weak-stomached to handle and another persuasive argument that the film\'s rating be more

restrictive.

It is the totality of this violence that, in part, lends the film its horrifically anti-Semitic

message. Not only does Gibson care to place the blame almost exclusively on the Jews, but by depicting the torture

in such fantastical detail, he also fosters a growing hatred toward those who would dare subject a man to such

brutality.

The contrast is remarkable: Pontius Pilate (Hristo Shopov) is depicted as a man torn about how to

handle Jesus. The film, in a rare scene excluding the protagonist, shows Pilate\'s careful meditation in great

detail, ultimately explaining that he is only willing to condemn Jesus to death for the greater good of his people,

as he fears the uprising that might ensue if he does not order the crucifixion. Conversely, the Jews are never shown

to give their actions any thought whatsoever and are depicted as controlling Rome and acting with a mob mentality

that thirsts for blood alone.

Granted, the Romans who carry out Pilate\'s fatal order do seem to relish the

task, but the message is clear: only the lowliest of Romans are culpable in Jesus\' death, but even the highest of

the Jews shoulder responsibility.

By the time Barabbas is spared at Jesus\' expense, the anti-Semitic message

is already clear. The Jews are emotionless, bloodthirsty and conniving. The Romans - who, even Gibson must

acknowledge, ultimately are the ones to crack a whip 39 times and drive the actual stakes into Jesus - come across

as a civilized, compassionate people. As a result, almost all of the blame is assigned to the Jews, who are shown

finding stoic pleasure in these final 12 hours.

Gibson should have reduced the violence, expanded the

flashbacks and steered clear of making a film so obsessed with anti-Semitism that even Simon (Jarreth Merz)

ultimately looks bad. Technically, he has the skill to do just this - the cinematography is already picturesque, the

makeup is horrifically realistic and the acting, with the exception of a scene where Caviezel makes it appear as

though Jesus is nodding off in front of Pilate, is stellar.

Moreover, credit should be given where due, and

Gibson\'s decision to make the entire movie in Aramaic (with Romans speaking Street Latin) significantly helps

establish the time setting and build intensity.

But not even these small accomplishments can overshadow the

fact that \"The Passion of the Christ\" is a bitter film that uses excessive violence to foster hatred that this

religiously divided world simply doesn\'t need.

Â

<hr

/></blockquote>
I have read several reviews similar to this one and most are not from Jewish

reviewers.

<hr /></blockquote>

Gene Shallot\'s review:

\"IIIIIII loved

it!\"

Holmes

Elana

02-29-2004, 08:23 AM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Get da mon a blunt I say! He den put love inna

movie. Israela yakirati, mon. One love.

Holmes

<hr /></blockquote>

Cuyah, he

gwan lak he nice eee?
Dem a wan no good bunch

Elana

02-29-2004, 08:25 AM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
To be fair, I don\'t think Mel intended any

harm.

<hr /></blockquote>

I do /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

bjf

02-29-2004, 08:25 AM

The idiot

Tonite Show people giving him a standing ovation is no different than the voters of California electing

Arnold.

You expect there to always be fools in this world, but when the so-called normal masses except it, that

is particularly disconcerting.

Kari

02-29-2004, 08:30 AM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
The idiot Tonite Show people giving him a standing

ovation is no different than the voters of California electing Arnold.

You expect there to always be fools in

this world, but when the so-called normal masses except it, that is particularly disconcerting.

<hr

/></blockquote>

Too many people confuse the normal-person artist for his/her heroic/larger

than life character.

Icarus

02-29-2004, 08:33 AM

I thought it

was the Jedi that did Jesus in?

Elana

02-29-2004, 08:35 AM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
I thought it was the Jedi that did Jesus in?

<hr /></blockquote>

pod people

Kari

02-29-2004, 08:36 AM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
I thought it was the Jedi that did Jesus in?

<hr /></blockquote>

The Imperial Troops, honey. Didn\'t you see all that white

plastic armor, standing around the foot of the cross?

Icarus

02-29-2004, 08:36 AM

Jedi

Pod People?

Hold me.

Holmes

02-29-2004, 08:36 AM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Dem a wan no good bunch

<hr

/></blockquote>

Im badda dan dem!

Holmes

Kari

02-29-2004, 08:45 AM

Some of my

movie industry friends tell me there\'s actually a lot of professional consternation around that flick. But,

nobody wants to mess with Mel, at this time. You know how, in some industries, colleagues \"close ranks\" if one

of their own makes a mistake? They are just gonna keep quiet, and let the movie bite Mel in the ass-- which it will

eventually do.

But, a couple of studio heads are saying that they are seriously pissed, and won\'t use Mel,

again.

The thing about this place is... there\'s a ton of talent, and a lot of it is hungry. There are a lot

of excellent artists to use and to promote. \"Star power\" is more transient than it used to be.

Elana

02-29-2004, 08:52 AM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Dem a wan no good bunch

<hr /></blockquote>

Im badda dan dem!

Holmes

<hr /></blockquote>

Ole still, mi

si wan big maskitta pan yu foot

Kari

02-29-2004, 09:26 AM

The Passion of

the Christ

February 27, 2004

I defy anyone to remain unmoved
By Ruth

Gledhill
Our correspondent finds Mel Gibsonâ€™s crucifixion movie

affecting but deeply disturbing

ONE of the most frightening aspects of the latest work of fiction from

Mel Gibson was the willingness of so many Christians in the invited audience to

believe in its absolute veracity.

Some of the most moving

scenes in The Passion of the Christ are nowhere to be found in the Bible, not

that they would necessarily be true even if they were; this is something that

can be attested from more than a century of biblical exegesis.

NI_MPU(\'middle\');

Gibson has incorporated into the script some of the writings of

a German nun who died in 1824, Sister Anne Catherine Emmerich. In the latest

edition of The Tablet, the Roman Catholic weekly, Austen Ivereigh describes how

Sister Anneâ€™s posthumously published text, The Dolorous Passion of

Our Lord Jesus Christ, reflected the popular anti-Semitism of the period. Pope Pius XII was

among the fans of Sister Anne, who is now approaching

beatification, and Gibson carries a relic of hers in his pocket.

Her influence must therefore be borne in mind when watching one powerful but

non-biblical scene, where Pilateâ€™s sympathetic wife gives white towels to Mary and

Mary Magdalene and they wipe the floor clean of Jesusâ€™s blood after the

scourging.

In other non-biblical scenes, Jesus is thrown off a

bridge by his tormentors, shackled in chains; Pilate at one point says all the Pharisees

hate Jesus, and also asks the High Priest, Caiaphas, whether they always

punish their prisoners before they are judged. Pilate also offers Jesus a drink of

water in a kindly gesture, and the role of his wife is exaggerated.

The most moving scene in the film for me is also not one that I recall from years of

Sunday school. Jesus, carrying his Cross, stumbles and collapses and we see a

flashback to His boyhood when, on the same stretch of road in Jerusalem, He

falls at the same spot. Mary, sensing the prophetic import of the moment, runs to

cuddle and comfort the boy. I defy any mother to remain unmoved by this

scene. I could not prevent the tears running down my cheeks here and others were similarly

affected, at this and other parts.

The Bible exerted a huge

power over me as a child. Gibsonâ€™s achievement has been to translate this power

into a film. The Passion is an extraordinary achievement in its use of light,

music, colour and language. I barely noticed the subtitles, with the Latin and Aramaic

seeming to come alive.

This is where its greatest danger lies. It

is all very well for Christians to insist this film is not

anti-Semitic, to repeat that Jesus and His mother were Jewish. Large numbers of Jewish

people who see this film are appalled, and with good reason. For centuries,

clergy have from their pulpits been preaching messages that underlaid anti-Semitic

sentiment in societies worldwide and enabled Hitler to pursue his horrifying

â€œFinal Solutionâ€.

In Gibsonâ€™s film, it is Jesus and his followers, the

Christians, who are the victims. The high priests, the Jews, are the

persecutors. The film will be, and is already being, treated as fact by leading Christians

in this country. Gibson left out the deicidal line from Matthew

xxvii, 25. But there are two scenes where Jesusâ€™s persecutors demand His Crucifixion,

crying to Pilate: â€œYitstalev! Yitstalev! Yitstalev!â€ This is

Aramaic. But it happens also to mean â€œ crucify Himâ€ in modern Hebrew. I cannot understand

how anyone in a post-Holocaust era, and aware of the sensitivities

swirling around modern Israel, could have done such a provocative and distressing thing.

Passion plays in medieval times, which drew on the same texts, were often

followed by pogroms.

May their blood be on all of us Christians, for all

eternity, if we allow one single act of anti-Semitism to be inspired by

this powerful but terrifying film.

Holmes

02-29-2004, 10:40 AM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Ole still, mi si wan big maskitta pan yu foot

<hr /></blockquote>

ROFLMAO! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

That was gonna

be my next reply!

\"Hello, Miss Cleo?\"

Holmes

Pancho1188

02-29-2004, 11:04 AM

I just wanted to say that each and every person on earth should all live by the gospel according to

Mel...Mel Brooks. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

(For those who don\'t know, he continually

pokes fun at his own religion, Hitler, etc...\"The Producers\" is a good example)

Kari

02-29-2004, 11:06 AM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
I just wanted to say that each and every person on

earth should all live by the gospel according to Mel...Mel Brooks.

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

(For those who don\'t know, he continually pokes fun at his

own religion, Hitler, etc...\"The Producers\" is a good example)

<hr /></blockquote>

Then there was the Inquisition dance number in History of the World (I forget which part).

Favorite line from a Brooks movie: \"I just LOVE quicktime harch.\"

I LOVE Mel B.! a

Holmes

02-29-2004, 11:07 AM

The original Gospel Of Mel begins with the words \"Stow it, Alice!\"

Words to live and die

by.

Holmes

Pancho1188

02-29-2004, 11:11 AM

Okay, let\'s all get real, here. We all know who killed Jesus. God allowed Jesus\' death. If He

can burn bushes, part the seas, flood the earth, kill all the first-born children, talk to whoever He deems

\'chosen\', create the ten commandments, allow Jesus to bring Lazarus back to life, and commit other divine

acts, He could\'ve prevented that death unless it was not His will.

Holmes

02-29-2004, 11:14 AM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
burn bushes, part the seas, flood the earth, kill

all the first-born children, talk to whoever He deems \'chosen\', create the ten commandments, allow Jesus to

bring Lazarus back to life, and commit other divine acts

<hr /></blockquote>

How\'d

you get a copy of my resume?

Holmes

Pancho1188

02-29-2004, 11:21 AM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
burn bushes, part the seas, flood the earth, kill all the first-born

children, talk to whoever He deems \'chosen\', create the ten commandments, allow Jesus to bring Lazarus back to

life, and commit other divine acts

<hr /></blockquote>

How\'d you get a copy of my

resume?

Holmes

<hr /></blockquote>

It was on HotJobs.com. Would everyone like

to see it?

Holmes
999 Heaven\'s Gate
Heaven, Universe 00000
(000) 000-0000

Education
The Holmes School

of Divine Influence
Masters Degree in Holy Might
4.0/4.0

Work Experience
Company: God, Inc.
Job Title:

Prophet
Employment Duration: Eternity
Job Description:
burn bushes, part the seas, flood the earth, kill all the

first-born children, talk to whoever He deems \'chosen\', create the ten commandments, allow Jesus to bring

Lazarus back to life, and commit other divine acts

References:
Moses
Noah
George W. Bush

Please contact

Holmes if anyone is interested.

Holmes

02-29-2004, 11:25 AM

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif George gave me a nice letter of recommendation. Forgot to run it

through Spell Check, though. (Is \"Ima\" a word?)

Back to topic: I heard Mel Gibson\'s into

chocolate.

Holmes

Elana

02-29-2004, 12:13 PM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Then there was the Inquisition dance number in

History of the World (I forget which part).

<hr /></blockquote>

OMG! That was so

frikken funny!!! That was the Spanish Inquisition dance from History of the World Part I. I am such a Mel Brooks

fan! He is so the man!!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Elana

02-29-2004, 12:15 PM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Ole still, mi si wan big maskitta pan yu foot

<hr /></blockquote>

ROFLMAO! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

That was gonna

be my next reply!

\"Hello, Miss Cleo?\"

Holmes

<hr /></blockquote>

Yeah

right! And I bet you are going to tell me that you were going to say Yu can cyarri dis cow pan yuh chuck? next

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Holmes

02-29-2004, 12:18 PM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Then there was the Inquisition dance number in History of the World (I

forget which part).

<hr /></blockquote>

OMG! That was so frikken funny!!! That was

the Spanish Inquisition dance from History of the World Part I. I am such a Mel Brooks fan! He is so the man!!!

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

<hr /></blockquote>

That was

amazing. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif I loved Dom Deluise as Ceasar, too.

Holmes

Holmes

02-29-2004, 12:24 PM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Ole still, mi

si wan big maskitta pan yu foot

<hr /></blockquote>

ROFLMAO!

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

That was gonna be my next reply!

\"Hello, Miss

Cleo?\"

Holmes

<hr /></blockquote>

Yeah right! And I bet you are going to tell

me that you were going to say Yu can cyarri dis cow pan yuh chuck? next

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

<hr /></blockquote>

No, actually

I was gonna point out that \"Mel Im love chaklit cake with nuff icenin.\" That Beyonce/Betty Crocker thing was

proof enough.

Holmes

Elana

02-29-2004, 12:24 PM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Then there

was the Inquisition dance number in History of the World (I forget which part).

<hr /></blockquote>

OMG! That was so frikken funny!!! That was the Spanish Inquisition dance from History of the

World Part I. I am such a Mel Brooks fan! He is so the man!!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

<hr

/></blockquote>

That was amazing. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif I loved Dom

Deluise as Ceasar, too.

Holmes

<hr /></blockquote>

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
One of his greatest characters was the late Madeline Kahn as Lili

Von Shtupp in Blazing Saddles. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

With the exception of Space

Balls, everything he touches is gold. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Holmes

02-29-2004, 12:27 PM

Even Spaceballs had its moments, though.

Blazing Saddles is the greatest.

Holmes

Elana

02-29-2004, 12:29 PM

The Producers was pretty damn funny. Springtime for Hitler in Germany

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Holmes

02-29-2004, 12:37 PM

The Producers was really funny. Haven\'t seen it on Broadway yet. I guess I\'m waiting for Ben Stiller

and Larry David to take over... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Holmes

Elana

02-29-2004, 12:39 PM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
The Producers I guess I\'m waiting for

Ben Stiller and Larry David to take over... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Holmes

<hr

/></blockquote>

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Kari

02-29-2004, 02:11 PM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Then there was the Inquisition dance number in History of the World (I

forget which part).

<hr /></blockquote>

OMG! That was so frikken funny!!! That was

the Spanish Inquisition dance from History of the World Part I. I am such a Mel Brooks fan! He is so the man!!!

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

<hr /></blockquote>

Hey,

Torquemada! Whaddaya say?
I just got back form the auto-da-fe.
Auto-da-fe? What\'s an auto-da-fe?
It\'s what

you oughn\'t to do, but you do anyway.

Kari

02-29-2004, 02:12 PM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Then there

was the Inquisition dance number in History of the World (I forget which part).

<hr /></blockquote>

OMG! That was so frikken funny!!! That was the Spanish Inquisition dance from History of the

World Part I. I am such a Mel Brooks fan! He is so the man!!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

<hr

/></blockquote>

That was amazing. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif I loved Dom

Deluise as Ceasar, too.

Holmes

<hr /></blockquote>

Madeline Kahn as the

Empress: \"Yes, no,no,no,no,no,no,YES!\"

Kari

02-29-2004, 02:15 PM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Then there was the Inquisition dance number in

History of the World (I forget which part).

<hr /></blockquote>

OMG! That was so

frikken funny!!! That was the Spanish Inquisition dance from History of the World Part I. I am such a Mel Brooks

fan! He is so the man!!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

<hr

/></blockquote>

That was amazing. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif I loved Dom

Deluise as Ceasar, too.

Holmes

<hr /></blockquote>

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
One of his greatest characters was the late Madeline Kahn as Lili

Von Shtupp in Blazing Saddles. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

With the exception of Space

Balls, everything he touches is gold. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

<hr

/></blockquote>

Lili von Shtup: \"It\'s twew! It\'s twew, it\'s twew, it\'s

twew!\'

The Sheriff: \"Lady, you\'re sucking on my arm!\" (from Blazing Saddles). <g>

Kari

02-29-2004, 02:17 PM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Even Spaceballs had its moments,

though.

Blazing Saddles is the greatest.

Holmes

<hr /></blockquote>

I

dunno-- being a Hitchcock fan, I could REALLY appreciate \"high Anxiety.\"

My friends\' favorite is

\'Young Frankenstein,\" though.

\"Oh! Sweet mystery of life, at last I\'ve found you!\"

Kari

02-29-2004, 02:18 PM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
The Producers was pretty damn funny. Springtime for

Hitler in Germany /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

<hr /></blockquote>

\"Winter for Poland and France.\" <g>

Elana

02-29-2004, 02:27 PM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Here I stand, the goddess of Desire
Set men on

fire
I have this power
Morning noon and night it\'s drink and dancing
Some quick romancing
And then a

shower
Stage door johnnies always surround me
They always hound me
With one request
Who can satisfy their

lustful habits
I\'m not a rabbit
I need some rest

I\'m tired
Sick and tired of love
I\'ve had my

fill of love
From below and above
Tired, tired of being admired
Tired of love uninspired
Let\'s face it

I\'m tired

I\'ve been with 1000\'s of men
Again and again
They promise the moon
They always coming

and going
Going and coming
And always too soon
Right girls?

I\'m tired,
Tired of playing the game

Ain\'t it a crying shame
I\'m so tired
God dammit I\'m exhausted

Tired, tired of playing the game

Ain\'t it a crying shame
I\'m so tired

[Soldiers:]
She\'s tired (She\'s tired)
Sick and tired of

love (Give her a break)
She\'s had her fill of love (She\'s not a snake)
From bellow and above (Can\'t you

see she\'s sick)
Tired (She\'s bushed)
Tired of being admired (Let her alone)
Tired of love uninspired

(Get off the phone)
She\'s tired (Don\'t you know she\'s pooped)

I\'ve been with 1000\'s of men

Again and again
They sing the same tune
They start with Byron and Shelly
And jump on your belly
And bust

your ballon
Aye!

Tired, tired of playing the game
Ain\'t it a freakin\' shame
I\'m so...
Let\'s

face it everything below the waist is kapput!

[Soldiers:]
Tired!

<hr /></blockquote>

Rakesh

02-29-2004, 02:53 PM

One good point was said here.
Jesus was supposed to die.
All the people who go \"omg evil romans/jews/judas

killed our little jesus\" and sparkle the sparks of hate just don\'t get it. Completely outside all spirituality

here, if he survived, christianity would never be born. There were heaps of prophets claiming this or that, but he

died for his two cents, he was the martyr, not just a talker. If they didn\'t nail him, he would have his small

circle of followers and would be forgotten within 200 years.

Which is of course only the tip of the iceberg,

the spiritual neccesity and symbolism of his death is something i dare not fathom here.

DISCLAIMER: I do not

consider myself a christian. (before any flames land on my arse)