Long Newbie post: overwhelemd by choices [Archive]

novmode

02-08-2004, 07:57 AM

Hi everyone, I have a lot of dumb questions to ask and i feel like i should give a lot of information, so this is

gonna be a LONG one.
i just found this forum last night and i read the archives back to april or may. I\'ve

heard about \'mones\' over a year ago and have always wondered how well they work so i\'m considering giving

them a try but i\'m hoping for a bit of advice first before i go ahead and order anything. I\'m a poor college

student.

First, i\'m living at home this year, so i\'m wondering what shows up on your credit card

statements when you order? nosey parents suck.

Next question: What should i order? a little background

information on me and what i seem to have gathered from reading the forums (consequently i\'ve read so much that

i\'m just blatently overwhelemd and confused).
I\'m almost 20, i\'m about 5\'10\" w/ out shoes,about 180

lbs, stocky build (somewhat muscular), light olive (mediteranian) complexion, black/brown hair and brown eyes. In

terms of looks i\'m a mid 7, maybee low 8 on a good day. To give you an idea of my \'style\' i\'m into

heavy metal, i used to wear a lot of concert t-shirts, jeans, chains etc, no body peircings or tatoos though.

I\'ve tried to clean up my act a bit recently, i kind of look a bit like an itallian mobster now: long hair

slicked back in a pony tail, i wear a lot of polyester button down shirts and jeans, other than black the only other

colors i wear are red and sometimes dark blue, i feel that I really give off a strong lone wolf/clint eastwood vibe,

very unaproachable, i always look really serious, i\'m one of those people who don\'t smile unless they have a

real reason to.

so i guess that means i want to go with hardly any none, maybee something like

wagg?

In terms of my personal skills, i say people tend to like me once they get to know me. I can be funny,

i have a rather dry sense of humor though that tends to go right past a lot of people who think i\'m being

serious. I tend to be somewhat witty and sarcastic, although i can also be blatently sexual with my humor. My

friends (females included) love it. Around people i don\'t know i\'m just very dry though, witty and sarcastic

at best if i can come up w/ anything, with friends it just flows naturally. I\'m a difficult person to get to

know because i\'m unaproachble, and i\'m somewhat shy so i don\'t really approach anyone and it amplifies

about 10x in group situations, if there are just guys around i can fake it, but if there\'s even one girl in the

group i just sit there quietly. I have a hard time initiating conversation with girls i don\'t know, i never know

how to open up, what to say, etc. So i almost never approach girls unless i have a good reason to do so (which is

very rare). I\'m your typial geek, Electrical Engineering Major, president of the math club, oh yeah the ladies

swoon all over that stuff. so something that makes them chatty would be good and even approach me would be

great.

so i guess that would maybee be something like AE?

I like to wear scents, aftershave balms etc.

but i like stuff that\'s fairly unique. I was at the mall the other day I really liked curve and gio, but

everyone wears that stuff. I was thinking about some stuff by Yves Saint Lauren like Body Kuros. So i don\'t

know maybee something that would mix well with fragrecnes would be good? Or something with it\'s own unique

fragrence. I\'m not a huge fan of musks, but hey if the ladies like it i\'m down.

I\'m really starting

to ramble at this point. so in short what would all you experts out there reccomend i try for my \'style\' so

to speak. what about potenial mixes? I really can\'t afford to break the piggy bank though. and how do you guys

who live with your folks \'stealth order\' this stuff?

Thanks

belgareth

02-08-2004, 09:26 AM

Before you even consider mones you need to look at yourself and consider some changes. Yeah, it is

difficult to start a conversation with a stranger, especially a pretty girl. So? We\'ve all had that problem. Do

it anyway. The more you do it, the easier it gets. Try saying hello and asking a question (open ended) or give a

compliment. Make an effort to smile more often. Consider your appearance, is that the image you really want to

portray? Step outside your comfort zone and try some different clothes or colors or hairstyles.

Mones are great

and they do seem to do a lot of good but they are only a part of the overall picture. Personality and appearance far

overwhelm the mones, especially during the critical first impression. If you come across as unapproachable on first

sight, mones are not going to be a big help. If you come across as open and friendly, they can help you become

hugely successful.

I had the same problem with my parents regarding my mail when I was young. We finally had a

low key confrontation about it when I asked them how they felt about breaking federal law. If they open mail

addressed to you as an adult, they are commiting a crime. Just make sure you have your ducks in a row before you do

that, I had a copy of the federal statute to show them. Check with the postmaster\'s office for that.

EXIT63

02-08-2004, 09:27 AM

Speedreader Eh?

1. I believe it says L-S products on the statement.

2. Wagg and AE

3. Check

the customer service department forum for ordering questions or click on \"ordering\" on the Love-Scent home

page.

Hope this helps.

markus

02-08-2004, 10:09 AM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Mones are great and they do seem to do

a lot of good but they are only a part of the overall picture. Personality and appearance far overwhelm the mones,

especially during the critical first impression.

<hr /></blockquote>

i agree 100

percent about personality far overwhelming the mones, but do you really think appearance is more important than

mones? i am not sure. even in the critical first moments. unless by appearance you mean also the way you move and

hold your body. but i would count that as personality. maybe i will call it physical personality. tone of voice will

also go in this category. apearance as in what cloths you wear is not really important IMHO. there are also so many

kinds of women, and you never know what they (dont) like about the guys cloths, whereas you can always say that a

woman finds attractive a guy that is confident.

belgareth

02-08-2004, 10:44 AM

Since I am a minimalist on mone usage, I think appearance does have a significant impact. If the

effective range of the mones is say 5-6 feet, and the time it takes to create a pheromone impression is a couple

seconds, then what a woman sees is going to form the first impression. That will happen long before she gets close

enough to be hit by the mones. If you are wearing enough mones to cause a reaction at 15-20 feet the first

impression may be different but will you encounter repulsion at close range? (Phew, he stinks! or scary?) Yes, some

women will be attracted to the gangster look but I believe that more will be put off by it. Don\'t most women, or

people in general, want to be around somebody that is fun? Some probably would like the thrill of the dangerous type

but why not shoot for the majority? I also wonder what problems you may encounter when your appeaarance (includes

body language) contradicts your mone signature. Wouldn\'t that cause a subconcious trust issue? If every aspect of

a person is in agreement, wouldn\'t that make a woman more likely to trust him?

novmode

02-08-2004, 11:35 AM

belgar, I admit you pose some interesting points and you also lay out some good common sense. I

appreciate your and everyone elses replies.

I agree that physical appearance does go a long way, which is why

i\'ve tried to clean mine up lately as i\'ve said. I used to be a total slob, and now I\'m going for a

cleaner look while still maintaining what i feel to be my \'appearance-individuality\'.

I\'ve read a LOT

of posts in the past day inclduing some outrageous stuff. All I\'m really hoping as that mones would help with

that initial encounter to meet new people, such as the stories i\'ve read of girls just comming up to guys and

saying \'hi\' and starting conversations.

OCP

02-08-2004, 11:54 AM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
belgar, I admit you pose some interesting points

and you also lay out some good common sense. I appreciate your and everyone elses replies.

I agree that

physical appearance does go a long way, which is why i\'ve tried to clean mine up lately as i\'ve said. I used

to be a total slob, and now I\'m going for a cleaner look while still maintaining what i feel to be my

\'appearance-individuality\'.

I\'ve read a LOT of posts in the past day inclduing some outrageous stuff.

All I\'m really hoping as that mones would help with that initial encounter to meet new people, such as the

stories i\'ve read of girls just comming up to guys and saying \'hi\' and starting conversations.

<hr

/></blockquote>

Try Wagg and go from there.

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

markus

02-08-2004, 12:39 PM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Since I am a minimalist on mone usage,

I think appearance does have a significant impact. If the effective range of the mones is say 5-6 feet, and the time

it takes to create a pheromone impression is a couple seconds, then what a woman sees is going to form the first

impression. That will happen long before she gets close enough to be hit by the mones. If you are wearing enough

mones to cause a reaction at 15-20 feet the first impression may be different but will you encounter repulsion at

close range? (Phew, he stinks! or scary?) Yes, some women will be attracted to the gangster look but I believe that

more will be put off by it. Don\'t most women, or people in general, want to be around somebody that is fun? Some

probably would like the thrill of the dangerous type but why not shoot for the majority? I also wonder what problems

you may encounter when your appeaarance (includes body language) contradicts your mone signature. Wouldn\'t that

cause a subconcious trust issue? If every aspect of a person is in agreement, wouldn\'t that make a woman more

likely to trust him?

<hr /></blockquote>

i also wear small none amounts so we\'re

not talking 20 feet reaction here. still, the pheros work pretty fast. i think a few seconds is much much more than

what it takes for the mones to get into play. i would go with a fraction of a second. i\'ve seen women coming into

the crowded underground and immediately starting to look where the mones are comeing from. when you come up to a

woman and say hi, or something else, she will see your appearance and react to the mones at the same time. now, if

you sit somewhere and exchange looks for a while, then you are right, but in the normal situations when i hit on a

girl it doesn\'t make a change (i creep from behind and say a sexy hallo

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif ).

the good question is what happens when the mones and your

appearance contradict each other. here i think you are probably right and one has a problem. but one should also

remember that interpreting appearance as neat or baggy or whatever is not a pure scientific thing, it is also

influenced from the mones. go with the same cloths without the mones and with the mones and your appearance would be

received differently.

Friendly1

02-08-2004, 12:56 PM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
apearance as in what cloths you wear is

not really important IMHO.

<hr /></blockquote>

You have a LOT to learn about women, if

you think they don\'t consider the clothes you wear to be important. Most guys blow it with Dream Girl simply by

dressing the wrong way. You never get off the ground if you don\'t show the girls you\'ve got some style

sense.

There will always be a few horny ones on the prowl, looking for some quick action. But most single women

are looking for long-term relationships when they are looking at all.

CJ01

02-08-2004, 01:03 PM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
But most single women are looking for long-term

relationships when they are looking at all.

<hr /></blockquote> OH yes. All girls I

know want men for real longterm relationships! Yeah right!

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif
Clothes are not THAT important, it depends on your wardrobe if

you need to get new/different gear or not and also what circles you move in.

Okay now I gotta read the entire

thread /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Rakesh

02-08-2004, 01:05 PM

Out of the girls I know, most want somebody with a thick wallet, a car and two mount everests worth of

arrogance.

belgareth

02-08-2004, 01:11 PM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
apearance as in what cloths you wear is not really important IMHO.

<hr

/></blockquote>

You have a LOT to learn about women, if you think they don\'t

consider the clothes you wear to be important. Most guys blow it with Dream Girl simply by dressing the wrong way.

You never get off the ground if you don\'t show the girls you\'ve got some style sense.

There will always

be a few horny ones on the prowl, looking for some quick action. But most single women are looking for long-term

relationships when they are looking at all.

<hr /></blockquote>

Your

appearance says an awful lot about you and women notice. Not just the type of clothes you wear but many other

details as well. Some women are turned on by the outdoors, rugged look and prefer a deeply tanned man in jeans and

tee shirt, others would like to see a man in a suit and tie. Almost all of them look at whether he is well groomed

or sloppy about his appearance.

Isn\'t \'common sense\' an oxymoron?

Rakesh

02-08-2004, 01:14 PM

Belga im a combination of both:)
Normally im mostly in green and brown, long hair, the rugged-type

facial hair left to its own fate for a few days, native american beads around my neck (the inch thick line), plus I

do look slightly indianish (tan, black hair).
However, if there\'s need, I shave, tie my hair into a pony tail

and voila, transformation from a woodsman to a serious mafiosoish businessman in 20 minutes

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

CJ01

02-08-2004, 01:16 PM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Out of the girls I know, most want somebody with a

thick wallet, a car and two mount everests worth of arrogance.

<hr /></blockquote>

Most?! Well that implies that at least some of them are worth talking too.
I wouldn´t waste my time with such cool

personality challenged people as you´ve described /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif

Rakesh

02-08-2004, 01:19 PM

Well thats exactly my opinion. Treat the nice girls as human beings, and the bitches don\'t deserve

anything better than being mistreated, since that\'s what they want anyway.

OCP

02-08-2004, 01:24 PM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
apearance as

in what cloths you wear is not really important IMHO.

<hr /></blockquote>

You have a

LOT to learn about women, if you think they don\'t consider the clothes you wear to be important. Most guys blow

it with Dream Girl simply by dressing the wrong way. You never get off the ground if you don\'t show the girls

you\'ve got some style sense.

There will always be a few horny ones on the prowl, looking for some quick

action. But most single women are looking for long-term relationships when they are looking at all.

<hr

/></blockquote>

Your appearance says an awful lot about you and women notice. Not just the

type of clothes you wear but many other details as well. Some women are turned on by the outdoors, rugged look and

prefer a deeply tanned man in jeans and tee shirt, others would like to see a man in a suit and tie. Almost all of

them look at whether he is well groomed or sloppy about his appearance.

Isn\'t \'common sense\' an

oxymoron?

<hr /></blockquote>

Be yourself. If you create a certain look just to

attract women, then you attract women to the look and not who you are. You may not get along with this type of

lady. For instance I am a jeans and T-shirt kinda guy. If I went out in a suit then I would attract women who like

guys in suits and not women who like guys in jeans and T-shirts and the personalities are very different most of the

time. I hope that makes sense. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

OCP

02-08-2004, 01:25 PM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Well thats exactly my opinion. Treat the nice girls

as human beings, and the bitches don\'t deserve anything better than being mistreated, since that\'s what they

want anyway.

<hr /></blockquote>

I second this opinion.

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Elana

02-08-2004, 01:26 PM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Your appearance says an awful lot

about you and women notice. Not just the type of clothes you wear but many other details as well. Some women are

turned on by the outdoors, rugged look and prefer a deeply tanned man in jeans and tee shirt, others would like to

see a man in a suit and tie. Almost all of them look at whether he is well groomed or sloppy about his appearance.

<hr /></blockquote>

Gimme a man in Levi\'s and a tight white T-shirt and I am

good to go.

markus

02-08-2004, 01:27 PM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
apearance as in what cloths you wear is not really important IMHO.

<hr

/></blockquote>

You have a LOT to learn about women, if you think they don\'t consider

the clothes you wear to be important. Most guys blow it with Dream Girl simply by dressing the wrong way. You

never get off the ground if you don\'t show the girls you\'ve got some style sense.

There will always be a

few horny ones on the prowl, looking for some quick action. But most single women are looking for long-term

relationships when they are looking at all.

<hr /></blockquote>

if a woman is

looking for a long term relationship and all she cares about is the cloths, then she is not my dream girl. i sure

have a lot more to learn about women, and i am always glad to do it

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif but i have also seen enough to know that if you are charming

enough, they wont give a second look on the cloths. which doesn\'t mean appearance is totaly not important. but

appearance itself is far more than cloths. its far more important the way you move your body, the way you hold it,

the way you talk, than what you wear.

now, if you dont have charm, you might want to buy some expensive cool

looking cloths.

bjf

02-08-2004, 01:27 PM

Don\'t worry so much about what women want, worry about what YOU want.

OCP

02-08-2004, 01:28 PM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Your appearance says an awful lot about you and women notice. Not just the

type of clothes you wear but many other details as well. Some women are turned on by the outdoors, rugged look and

prefer a deeply tanned man in jeans and tee shirt, others would like to see a man in a suit and tie. Almost all of

them look at whether he is well groomed or sloppy about his appearance.

<hr /></blockquote>

Gimme a man in Levi\'s and a tight white T-shirt and I am good to go.

<hr

/></blockquote>

You just made my point better than my earlier ramble did.

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

franki

02-08-2004, 01:28 PM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />

First, i\'m living at home this

year, so i\'m wondering what shows up on your credit card statements when you order? nosey parents suck.

<hr /></blockquote>

They read YOUR CC statements?? Or are you using their cards?

...

You DON\'T WANT to start with WAGG in my book! It\'s funny stuff, but it is not the easiest stuff to

figure out I find. Start with AE, you can hardly go wrong with that.

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

Rakesh

02-08-2004, 01:30 PM

If there\'s something women deffinitely don\'t dig, it\'s losers with no backbone who will do

anything to appeal them. They will prefer a guy who wears, thinks and does stuff they don\'t agree with but he is

firm in his self. The \"what can i do to make you like me\" shows a lousy weak personality that isn\'t a good

material, neither genetically nor for a relationship.

markus

02-08-2004, 01:34 PM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
If there\'s something women

deffinitely don\'t dig, it\'s losers with no backbone who will do anything to appeal them. They will prefer a

guy who wears, thinks and does stuff they don\'t agree with but he is firm in his self. The \"what can i do to

make you like me\" shows a lousy weak personality that isn\'t a good material, neither genetically nor for a

relationship.

<hr /></blockquote>

and that includes \"what cloths can i wear to make

you like me\"

its all about charm, humor and confidence. not cloths.

oh and an interesting personality can

come in hand too for long term relationships. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Rakesh

02-08-2004, 01:38 PM

Well the more guys care about their looks the less you can bet is inside. Does have exceptions, but

good as a general rule.

Elana

02-08-2004, 01:40 PM

Down with Metrosexual\'s /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

CJ01

02-08-2004, 01:42 PM

You don´t need to know `what women want´ or like. When you´re with a woman you need to know what she likes and

wants in particular - that´s what you need to know as far as women are concerned. F*ck I´m starting this repeating

sh*t again

Ian_C

02-08-2004, 01:42 PM

Not sure I agree with that Rakesh, as what you\'ve described as a weak \'bend over backwards\'

attitude can also be interpreted, in small measures, as a willingness to compromise - which is pretty much essential

in any relationship.

Being your own man is one thing, but being unwilling to change for anyone is a sure road to

unhappiness.

I\'m somewhat like you Novmode, very dry sense of humour that, those who don\'t know me, can

interpret as me being serious. All I can advise is to take your \'self-improvements\' one step at a time,

I\'m embarked on a gradual regime of just being more confident and friendly to those that I might pass in the

street ( obviously discresion is called for here as well, you don\'t want to smile and make eye contact with an

obvious Psychopath ), just building it up to look and smiling pleasantly at, say, two people in any one day, then as

time draws on you feel gradually more confident to up the ante.

Also, getting Pheros to work for you can be a

pretty daunting learning curve, so don\'t take any extreme reactions you might recieve personally. I was out last

night wearing four drops of AE/m, went dancing and approached this one girl and she couldn\'t get away from me

fast enough, she literally ran straight from the dance floor, for a moment I was totally shattered then I realised I

must have ODed, as it was a pretty extreme reaction ( and I was dressed and groomed well, etc ).

Don\'t expect

these things to work miracles right away, a lucky few get that but most don\'t, think of the mones as merely a

building block in your plans to become a stronger, more confident individual.

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Elana

02-08-2004, 01:48 PM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
You don´t need to know `what women

want´

<hr /></blockquote>

You mean we don\'t all want the same thing?

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
I thought we all wanted men with tons of money, a nice car and

dressed to the hilt. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

belgareth

02-08-2004, 01:48 PM

CJ:

You\'re right, of course. There are always that sort of women around and they are best

avoided. I can\'t imagine bothering with any of them. UGH!!

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Rake:

I am middle aged now and it may have changed my

perspective a bit. I simply don\'t give a crap what people think about the way I dress. As a businessman who

sometimes has to crawl under a desk or into an attic, I find that khakis or jeans and a button down shirt are best.

My beard is short and neat because that\'s how I think a beard should look, unshaven or unruly beards and

moustaches look dirty to me. Large, showy or garish jewelry is usually laughable. Since I spend a large part of my

day at a keyboard, people expect my hands to be soft, they aren\'t. I don\'t tan and quit trying years ago, in

the summer my skin is slightly red, in the winter it\'s pale. I am of medium height and try hard to not look

muscular. Ok, add to that a touch of aloofness and a rather sharp sense of humor.

In other words, I intentionally

don\'t do 90% of what these dating books and websites say you should do. Yet there has never been a shortage of

wonderful women in my life. The biggest and most important things are always overlooked. Be confidant and friendly.

Don\'t direct your attention only to what you would call 9s or 10s. Be nice to everybody. Be fun and interesting

to be around and be trustworthy. But never, ever be a push over for anybody! Practice a good attitude at all times.

It will be worth every bit of the effort.

CJ01

02-08-2004, 01:54 PM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
I thought we all wanted men with tons of money, a

nice car and dressed to the hilt.

<hr /></blockquote>I thought we want them undressed

so it doesn´t matter what gear they got on /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
PS this does not

NOT include bad-taste underwear! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif

Elana

02-08-2004, 01:55 PM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
I thought we all wanted men with tons of money, a nice car and dressed to

the hilt.

<hr /></blockquote>I thought we want them undressed so it doesn´t matter

what gear they got on /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
PS this not NOT include bad-taste

underwear! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif

<hr /></blockquote>

Wooooooo /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Good point.

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
Underwear...tight cotton Calvin Klein boxers. Oh yeah!!!

franki

02-08-2004, 02:06 PM

If you have been a broke-ass college student you know it is alot easier to \"get girls\" when you can

flash at least \"a bit\" of money. Another advantage of making money is that you can actually \"get a life\"..

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

oscar

02-08-2004, 02:19 PM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />

......I\'m a poor college student.

....

I\'m almost 20, i\'m about 5\'10\" w/ out shoes,about 180 lbs,............

<hr

/></blockquote>

novmode,

I\'d strongly advise getting yourself some shoes before

investing any money in pheromones. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Oscar

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

belgareth

02-08-2004, 02:26 PM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
If you have been a broke-ass college

student you know it is alot easier to \"get girls\" when you can flash at least \"a bit\" of money. Another

advantage of making money is that you can actually \"get a life\"..

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

<hr /></blockquote>

I was for four

very long years. Made no difference, still had plenty of female company. Some of the finest women I\'ve ever known

because they had brains as well as looks.

Rakesh

02-08-2004, 02:27 PM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Not sure I agree with that Rakesh, as

what you\'ve described as a weak \'bend over backwards\' attitude can also be interpreted, in small measures,

as a willingness to compromise - which is pretty much essential in any relationship.

<hr /></blockquote> there\'s a difference between compromising when making decision about your life together and

changing your style and opinions to suit your significant otherworldly.

apple

02-08-2004, 02:41 PM

men should just have their own lives, keep clean (good hygene best thing to have), be kind and

conciderate, willing to comprimize without degrading themselves or doing things they really dont want to. speak up

and be honest about what you do and do not like, let your feelings be known without being bossy or whiney. always

strive to better yourself and improve your life /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif women will flock

to you! and very easily fall for you if you want that from them. Youll be able to pick who you want

just my

opinion

Rakesh

02-08-2004, 02:44 PM

Belga- even though I\'m ballancing on the razor blade edge of teens breaking into twenties, I would

say I arrived at the same conclusion. Laughable guys who always wear the trendiest clothes and use hair gel to build

miniature Taj Mahal on their heads only score with the simplest \"wow look at his cell phone\" girls. Of course,

there\'s mutual satisfaction as the guys get laid (which is all they care about) and the girls get their emotional

fulfillment (IE falling in love with jerks). I\'m after something else.
Thus, negating this attitude with the

exact opposite is a good way to locate the exact opposite of the above mentioned girls. If you want to attract

ducks, don\'t use fish bait.

belgareth

02-08-2004, 03:31 PM

As an aside, what is Belga? I\'m trying to decide if it a type of cheese or a new type of cavier.

franki

02-08-2004, 03:34 PM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
As an aside, what is Belga?

<hr

/></blockquote>

Sounds like a polish girl\'s name, or a new vodka..

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Friendly1

02-08-2004, 04:28 PM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
But most single women are looking for long-term relationships when they are

looking at all.

<hr /></blockquote>

OH yes. All girls I know want men for real

longterm relationships! Yeah right! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

<hr /></blockquote>

You managed to quote the whole sentence but not pay attention to what it says. Two demerits

for you, my dear.

Next....

Friendly1

02-08-2004, 04:37 PM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
if a woman is looking for a long term

relationship and all she cares about is the cloths, then she is not my dream girl.

<hr /></blockquote>

Regardless of what you\'re seeing posted in this thread, MOST WOMEN judge men quickly on the

basis of their appearance. This is a well-documented behavior.

How you choose to dress yourself says a great

deal about you.

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
but i have also seen enough to

know that if you are charming enough, they wont give a second look on the cloths.

<hr /></blockquote>

That really depends on what they are looking for at the moment. Like I said, there are always

a few looking to scarf up some action. Most people, men and women alike, have different standards for long-term and

short-term relationships.

You can believe you have all the charm in the world, but it won\'t change the fact

that you\'re still looking for ways to meet and attract women. So, clearly, the charm factor isn\'t

satisfactory for you, is it?

Clothes don\'t close the deal any more than pheromones or charm, but give any

woman a choice between two men of equal quality, where one is better dressed than the other, and most women go for

the best-dressed man.

That is the way several studies have turned out, especially using two pictures of the same

man, one where he is better-dressed, etc. Women also tend to pick men with dilated pupils (again, using two

pictures of the same man). Women also tend to pick men who are tall, muscular, and square-jawed.

I\'m not

saying you should start working out. But if you think clothes are not important, you\'re just plain flat-busted

wrong. They ARE important. They make that critical, all-important first impression before the man ever opens his

mouth and sticks his foot into it.

Friendly1

02-08-2004, 04:41 PM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
If there\'s something women

deffinitely don\'t dig, it\'s losers with no backbone who will do anything to appeal them.

<hr

/></blockquote>

I\'m sure all the losers in the world are just hiding under rocks right

now, now that the truth is out.

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
They will prefer

a guy who wears, thinks and does stuff they don\'t agree with but he is firm in his self.

<hr

/></blockquote>

Yes. I see these guys shoot themselves down in flames all the

time.

However, if you are really getting all the female attention you crave with the pony-tail, then, by all

means, just keep doing what you\'re doing. Don\'t try anything different. It obviously wouldn\'t work

because it\'s just a cheap, manipulative trick.

Friendly1

02-08-2004, 04:46 PM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
men should just have their own lives,

keep clean (good hygene best thing to have), be kind and conciderate, willing to comprimize without degrading

themselves or doing things they really dont want to. speak up and be honest about what you do and do not like, let

your feelings be known without being bossy or whiney. always strive to better yourself and improve your life

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif women will flock to you!

<hr /></blockquote>

You\'ve just described the classic Nice Guy. And, oddly enough, Nice Guys don\'t get many

women.

I\'ve seen plenty of them complain about how women aren\'t interested in them.

Women are attracted

to confident, successful men, and they often make bad choices because a lot of men who seem confident and successful

turn out to be total jerks. The Nice Guys tend to get more attention from older, experienced women who are tired of

being treated badly.

Well-dressed men are generally treated with greater respect in society. They get more

attention than not-so-well dressed men. It comes down to how you present yourself.

Some people will not accept

reality. Can\'t change that. To each their own.

belgareth

02-08-2004, 04:59 PM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
men should just have their own lives, keep clean (good hygene best thing to

have), be kind and conciderate, willing to comprimize without degrading themselves or doing things they really dont

want to. speak up and be honest about what you do and do not like, let your feelings be known without being bossy or

whiney. always strive to better yourself and improve your life /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

women will flock to you!

<hr /></blockquote>

You\'ve just described the classic

Nice Guy. And, oddly enough, Nice Guys don\'t get many women.

I\'ve seen plenty of them complain about

how women aren\'t interested in them.

Women are attracted to confident, successful men, and they often make

bad choices because a lot of men who seem confident and successful turn out to be total jerks. The Nice Guys tend

to get more attention from older, experienced women who are tired of being treated badly.

Well-dressed men

are generally treated with greater respect in society. They get more attention than not-so-well dressed men. It

comes down to how you present yourself.

Some people will not accept reality. Can\'t change that. To each

their own.

<hr /></blockquote>

Anybody that believes nice guys don\'t

get many (younger) women is foolimg himself. You can be a nice guy and not a push over. But then, I am only

interested in nice, intelligent and well educated women. Maybe that\'s the difference. Unless a woman can hold a

conversation about a subject of greater depth than her nails or what\'s on the TV, I am not interested.

Friendly1

02-08-2004, 05:08 PM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Anybody that believes nice guys

don\'t get many (younger) women is foolimg himself.

<hr /></blockquote>

I spend a lot

of time with women in their 20s (I\'m in my 40s). They\'re looking for fun and excitement. They eat nice guys

for breakfast. I\'ve walked away with the girl on many an occasion as the nice (young) guy stood silently in the

background wishing he had had the courage to speak up and say something. Now, Apple did say the guy should SPEAK

UP. Except for that, she was describing a Nice Guy, so my response was a little off the

mark.

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
You can be a nice guy and not a push

over.

<hr /></blockquote>

You can be a GENTLEMAN and not be a pushover, but that

isn\'t really what I was speaking about. I\'ll agree that women DO like gentlemen, and gentlemen get lots of

attention. A nice guy hasn\'t learned how to be a gentleman.

novmode

02-08-2004, 05:32 PM

wow i go out for a few hours and i come back to see i opened a can of worms.
franki: my parents read

all my mail they even open some packages, but during school months they help me out a bit w/ the bills, so i\'m

kinda screwed there.
IanC: I\'m actually trying to do that, i went to the mall today for no other reason that to

just try and exchange a few smiles and glances, and did the same thing at the gym. starting slowly lol but better

than living under my rock.

Elana: lol money and a nice car eh? i can fake those, my car is pretty nice in terms

of appearance, it\'s a newer mustang convertible... to all the motorheads it\'s only a 6 but so what, it gets

looks.

Oscar: LOL smartass, but i enjoy playing basket ball in the street on broken glass with no shoes uphill

both ways!

and essentially to what has been said abut the nice guy syndrome,that\'s pretty much what I am, the

nice guy who never really wants to say anything that might be in the slightest way out of place. which is why

i\'m horrible in hanging out in groups, but 1on1 i can usually fly on my own pretty well. As for what i beleive

belgar said, I too am not interested in girls who\'s idea of a meaningful conversation is about her nails or the

new tom cruise movie, I like somewhat educated women who can hold conversations with topics that contain glimmers of

depth.

belgareth

02-08-2004, 05:42 PM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Anybody that believes nice guys don\'t get many (younger) women is foolimg

himself.

<hr /></blockquote>

I spend a lot of time with women in their 20s (I\'m in

my 40s). They\'re looking for fun and excitement. They eat nice guys for breakfast. I\'ve walked away with

the girl on many an occasion as the nice (young) guy stood silently in the background wishing he had had the courage

to speak up and say something. Now, Apple did say the guy should SPEAK UP. Except for that, she was describing a

Nice Guy, so my response was a little off the mark.

<blockquote>Quote:<hr

/>
You can be a nice guy and not a push over.

<hr /></blockquote>

You can be a

GENTLEMAN and not be a pushover, but that isn\'t really what I was speaking about. I\'ll agree that women DO

like gentlemen, and gentlemen get lots of attention. A nice guy hasn\'t learned how to be a gentleman.

<hr /></blockquote>

You seem to be using Nice Guy as a synomym for wimp or something

similar. Maybe we are disagreeing about semantics not behavoir. I try hard to be the good guy but am also assertive

and unlikely to even give the time of day to the type women you describe.

dogsbutt

02-08-2004, 05:57 PM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
I spend a lot of time with women in

their 20s (I\'m in my 40s). They\'re looking for fun and excitement. They eat nice guys for breakfast.

<hr

/></blockquote>

Friendly1, I defiinitely fall under the nice guy category, and I\'m

*reasonably* attractive (not overwhelmingly). I\'ve dated women (this year alone) from 18-32 years old, and

almost all of them (and their friends) have said to me \"You\'re such a nice guy. A woman would kill to be with

a guy like you.\" I am certain that somewhere, at some point or another, a woman HAS killed for me.

I\'ve

dated fun/adventurous women, I\'ve dated a stay at home mom. Every single person I\'ve dated has loved being

treated with care, consideration of their opinions and feelings, generosity (not with money, mind you).

It\'s

not just being a gentleman, it\'s being NICE. I think you may have fallen into that cynical trap that nice guys

finish last, and that alpha males (or \"gentlemen,\" or however you want to describe it) aren\'t \"nice.\"

It\'s a pretty shitty trap to fall into.

It doesn\'t matter how you label it; women (and men) go for people

that\'ll give them what they want. Your selection criteria may be such that you only find women that don\'t

like nice men. Some women don\'t want \"nice,\" and that\'s what you\'re stuck with. Your choice. But, it

leads a to fairly parochial view of women IN GENERAL if you start to say that because all the women you\'ve dated

don\'t like nice men, all women don\'t like nice men.

And, by the way, I don\'t even believe it of the

women you\'ve dated. I\'d be more apt to believe that your strategy seems to work for you because of your set

of beliefs (you\'re 40, they\'re 20. You must have a handful of beliefs wrapped around that). I\'ve dated

plenty of 20 somethings who have told me that, before dating me, they dated guys to manipulate them and play with

their emotions before tossing them aside. But, it turns out, even those girls want nice guys, if those guys know

how THEY (the specific women) want to be treated.

Yes, GENERAL alpha quality wins out over GENERAL nice guy, when

it GENERALLY comes to women. But, general models tend to break down when it comes to specifics. And ALL models

seem to break down when it comes to actual human beings.

bjf

02-08-2004, 06:01 PM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
A nice guy hasn\'t learned how to be a

gentleman.

<hr /></blockquote>

Friendly, sometimes when I read your posts, I

think, \"there is a guy who gets it.\" However, you do not get it all the time, perhaps a result of trying to

fullfill the authoratarian image you have carved out for yourself.

If you are going to spew crap, at least

do so with some humility.

You are completely arrogant about your ignorance.

belgareth

02-08-2004, 06:47 PM

Dogsbutt & BJF,

It sounds like you two do get it though. Good for you. I expect that you both

have pretty happy, secure relationships with great women. In the long run, nice guys do finish first and usually end

up with the best. Keep being the nice guys that you seem to be, it\'s very admirable.

OCP

02-08-2004, 07:40 PM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
wow i go out for a few hours and i come back to see

i opened a can of worms.
franki: my parents read all my mail they even open some packages, but during school

months they help me out a bit w/ the bills, so i\'m kinda screwed there.

<hr /></blockquote>

P.O. box.....no problems! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

OCP

02-08-2004, 07:48 PM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
and essentially to what has been said abut the nice

guy syndrome,that\'s pretty much what I am, the nice guy who never really wants to say anything that might be in

the slightest way out of place. which is why i\'m horrible in hanging out in groups, but 1on1 i can usually fly

on my own pretty well. As for what i beleive belgar said, I too am not interested in girls who\'s idea of a

meaningful conversation is about her nails or the new tom cruise movie, I like somewhat educated women who can hold

conversations with topics that contain glimmers of depth.

<hr /></blockquote>

Spoken from experience.....there are times to be nice and there are times to kick some major

a$$. Be nice until it is time to be a complete A$$hole. Nice is good until someone wants to take advantage of you

and then back them against the wall.

Question is do you have what it takes to back someone down when they

challenge you?

Having teenagers has given me alot of insight into human behavior. Watching my 13 yr old

daughter manipulate boys has been very enlightening. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

OCP

02-08-2004, 07:50 PM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
men should

just have their own lives, keep clean (good hygene best thing to have), be kind and conciderate, willing to

comprimize without degrading themselves or doing things they really dont want to. speak up and be honest about what

you do and do not like, let your feelings be known without being bossy or whiney. always strive to better yourself

and improve your life /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif women will flock to you!

<hr

/></blockquote>

You\'ve just described the classic Nice Guy. And, oddly enough, Nice

Guys don\'t get many women.

I\'ve seen plenty of them complain about how women aren\'t interested in

them.

Women are attracted to confident, successful men, and they often make bad choices because a lot of men who

seem confident and successful turn out to be total jerks. The Nice Guys tend to get more attention from older,

experienced women who are tired of being treated badly.

Well-dressed men are generally treated with greater

respect in society. They get more attention than not-so-well dressed men. It comes down to how you present

yourself.

Some people will not accept reality. Can\'t change that. To each their own.

<hr

/></blockquote>

Anybody that believes nice guys don\'t get many (younger) women is

foolimg himself.

<hr /></blockquote>

Oh please, the younger ones only want money,

cars and looks. Damn the little girls who are stupid! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

OCP

02-08-2004, 07:54 PM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Dogsbutt & BJF,

It sounds like you two do

get it though. Good for you. I expect that you both have pretty happy, secure relationships with great women. In the

long run, nice guys do finish first and usually end up with the best. Keep being the nice guys that you seem to be,

it\'s very admirable.

<hr /></blockquote>

Be nice, but do NOT be a pushover.....be

a man and know when to say NO! Yes the women will be pissed because they did not get their way, but you will gain

respect because you said NO!

Always remeber that, you are the man and you do have the last word...always.

Otherwise women laugh at you. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

dogsbutt

02-08-2004, 07:57 PM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Spoken from experience.....there are

times to be nice and there are times to kick some major a$$. Be nice until it is time to be a complete

A$$hole.

<hr /></blockquote>

Or, as Swayze says in Road House, \"I want you to be nice

until it\'s time to not be nice.\"

OCP

02-08-2004, 07:59 PM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Spoken from experience.....there are times to be nice and there are times to

kick some major a$$. Be nice until it is time to be a complete A$$hole.

<hr /></blockquote>

Or, as Swayze says in Road House, \"I want you to be nice until it\'s time to not be

nice.\"

<hr /></blockquote>

We will get along! Welcome!

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

belgareth

02-08-2004, 08:01 PM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Dogsbutt & BJF,

It sounds like you two do get it though. Good for you.

I expect that you both have pretty happy, secure relationships with great women. In the long run, nice guys do

finish first and usually end up with the best. Keep being the nice guys that you seem to be, it\'s very admirable.

<hr /></blockquote>

Be nice, but do NOT be a pushover.....be a man and know when to

say NO! Yes the women will be pissed because they did not get their way, but you will gain respect because you said

NO!

Always remeber that, you are the man and you do have the last word...always. Otherwise women laugh at you.

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

<hr /></blockquote>

Never a

pushover but really don\'t care about having the last word. That\'s an ego thing and my ego doesn\'t work that

way. If a woman (or a man for that matter) can\'t or won\'t treat me with respect I simply walk away. I don\'t

have the time to waste on such nonsense. Life has far to many good things going to bother with petty games.

OCP

02-08-2004, 08:06 PM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Dogsbutt

& BJF,

It sounds like you two do get it though. Good for you. I expect that you both have pretty happy,

secure relationships with great women. In the long run, nice guys do finish first and usually end up with the best.

Keep being the nice guys that you seem to be, it\'s very admirable.

<hr /></blockquote>

Be nice, but do NOT be a pushover.....be a man and know when to say NO! Yes the women will be

pissed because they did not get their way, but you will gain respect because you said NO!

Always remeber that,

you are the man and you do have the last word...always. Otherwise women laugh at you.

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

<hr /></blockquote>

Never a

pushover but really don\'t care about having the last word. That\'s an ego thing and my ego doesn\'t work that

way. If a woman (or a man for that matter) can\'t or won\'t treat me with respect I simply walk away. I don\'t

have the time to waste on such nonsense. Life has far to many good things going to bother with petty games.

<hr /></blockquote>

Yes, respect is important, but this is not communism where

everyone is equal.....if my woman wants control and won\'t defer to me as the last word then she is gone.....I am

the leader in my relationships ....period! Most women respect that and I will add that I am looking out for the

best inntests of everyone and that is important. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

belgareth

02-08-2004, 08:12 PM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
<blockquote>Quote:<hr

/>
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Dogsbutt & BJF,

It sounds like you two do

get it though. Good for you. I expect that you both have pretty happy, secure relationships with great women. In the

long run, nice guys do finish first and usually end up with the best. Keep being the nice guys that you seem to be,

it\'s very admirable.

<hr /></blockquote>

Be nice, but do NOT be a pushover.....be

a man and know when to say NO! Yes the women will be pissed because they did not get their way, but you will gain

respect because you said NO!

Always remeber that, you are the man and you do have the last word...always.

Otherwise women laugh at you. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

<hr /></blockquote>

Never a pushover but really don\'t care about having the last word. That\'s an ego thing

and my ego doesn\'t work that way. If a woman (or a man for that matter) can\'t or won\'t treat me with

respect I simply walk away. I don\'t have the time to waste on such nonsense. Life has far to many good things

going to bother with petty games.

<hr /></blockquote>

Yes, respect is important, but

this is not communism where everyone is equal.....if my woman wants control and won\'t defer to me as the last

word then she is gone.....I am the leader in my relationships ....period! Most women respect that and I will add

that I am looking out for the best inntests of everyone and that is important.

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

<hr /></blockquote>

If that\'s

how you choose to live, that is your choice. I believe the women you are around respect that, and like myself, you

choose to be around women who approve of and agree with your point of view on the matter. I don\'t agree with your

desire to dominate and prefer women who can be themselves without attempting to dominate me or have me dominate

them. To each their own preferences.

OCP

02-08-2004, 08:21 PM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
<blockquote>Quote:<hr

/>
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Dogsbutt & BJF,

It sounds like you two do get it though. Good for you.

I expect that you both have pretty happy, secure relationships with great women. In the long run, nice guys do

finish first and usually end up with the best. Keep being the nice guys that you seem to be, it\'s very admirable.

<hr /></blockquote>

Be nice, but do NOT be a pushover.....be a man and know when to

say NO! Yes the women will be pissed because they did not get their way, but you will gain respect because you said

NO!

Always remeber that, you are the man and you do have the last word...always. Otherwise women laugh at you.

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

<hr /></blockquote>

Never a

pushover but really don\'t care about having the last word. That\'s an ego thing and my ego doesn\'t work that

way. If a woman (or a man for that matter) can\'t or won\'t treat me with respect I simply walk away. I don\'t

have the time to waste on such nonsense. Life has far to many good things going to bother with petty games.

<hr /></blockquote>

Yes, respect is important, but this is not communism where

everyone is equal.....if my woman wants control and won\'t defer to me as the last word then she is gone.....I am

the leader in my relationships ....period! Most women respect that and I will add that I am looking out for the

best inntests of everyone and that is important. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

<hr

/></blockquote>

If that\'s how you choose to live, that is your choice. I believe the

women you are around respect that, and like myself, you choose to be around women who approve of and agree with your

point of view on the matter. I don\'t agree with your desire to dominate and prefer women who can be themselves

without attempting to dominate me or have me dominate them. To each their own preferences.

<hr

/></blockquote>

Please do not understand me. I do not dominate my woman. She is strong

willed and I do not tell her what to do, but someone has to be the final word and that is me. She is herself and

has her own personality (no games) and interests...absolutely...just as woman does not want a pushpoer, neither does

a man!

apple

02-08-2004, 08:25 PM

whats this younger woman bashing? Im only 20 and i go for the nice guys! Ill only be with mature, kind

men who respect me!!! if theyre jerks to me im SO gone. I dont care about money, i dont care about looks or cars or

other materialistic crap like that. Ive had plenty of chances to be with hot rich men, but they were assholes so i

said BYE!

If a woman has half a brain, if SHE is worth being with, shell go for the nice guys, the smart guys,

the guys who have brains and heart! If she ditches Mr wonderful, then shes an idiot and she wasnt worth the trouble

in the first place! Im worth the extra effort, and any man im with should be worth that extra too!

dogsbutt

02-08-2004, 08:31 PM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Yes, respect is important, but this is

not communism where everyone is equal.....if my woman wants control and won\'t defer to me as the last word then

she is gone.....I am the leader in my relationships ....period! Most women respect that and I will add that I am

looking out for the best inntests of everyone and that is important.

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

<hr /></blockquote>

I\'m too

lazy to make all the decisions. I enter into sexual relationships where whatever she comes up with would be

interesting/new/unique/fun, even if I don\'t agree.

Besides, I usually end up dating women that are just as

curious about what interests me, as I am about what interests them.

This whole pushover thing doesn\'t really

factor in.

Pancho1188

02-08-2004, 09:01 PM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />

If a woman has half a brain, if SHE

is worth being with, shell go for the nice guys, the smart guys, the guys who have brains and heart!

<hr

/></blockquote>

You just described me.

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />

If she ditches Mr wonderful, then shes an idiot and she wasnt worth the

trouble in the first place!

<hr /></blockquote>

You just described my

ex-girlfriend...

Pancho1188

02-08-2004, 09:05 PM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
\"You\'re such a nice guy. A woman

would kill to be with a guy like you.\" I am certain that somewhere, at some point or another, a woman HAS killed

for me.

<hr /></blockquote>

That\'s not so funny when it\'s actually happened to

you...

.................................................

belgareth

02-08-2004, 09:37 PM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
<blockquote>Quote:<hr

/>
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Dogsbutt

& BJF,

It sounds like you two do get it though. Good for you. I expect that you both have pretty happy,

secure relationships with great women. In the long run, nice guys do finish first and usually end up with the best.

Keep being the nice guys that you seem to be, it\'s very admirable.

<hr /></blockquote>

Be nice, but do NOT be a pushover.....be a man and know when to say NO! Yes the women will

be pissed because they did not get their way, but you will gain respect because you said NO!

Always remeber

that, you are the man and you do have the last word...always. Otherwise women laugh at you.

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

<hr /></blockquote>

Never a

pushover but really don\'t care about having the last word. That\'s an ego thing and my ego doesn\'t work that

way. If a woman (or a man for that matter) can\'t or won\'t treat me with respect I simply walk away. I don\'t

have the time to waste on such nonsense. Life has far to many good things going to bother with petty games.

<hr /></blockquote>

Yes, respect is important, but this is not communism where

everyone is equal.....if my woman wants control and won\'t defer to me as the last word then she is gone.....I am

the leader in my relationships ....period! Most women respect that and I will add that I am looking out for the

best inntests of everyone and that is important. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

<hr

/></blockquote>

If that\'s how you choose to live, that is your choice. I believe

the women you are around respect that, and like myself, you choose to be around women who approve of and agree with

your point of view on the matter. I don\'t agree with your desire to dominate and prefer women who can be

themselves without attempting to dominate me or have me dominate them. To each their own preferences.

<hr

/></blockquote>

Please do not understand me. I do not dominate my woman. She is

strong willed and I do not tell her what to do, but someone has to be the final word and that is me. She is herself

and has her own personality (no games) and interests...absolutely...just as woman does not want a pushpoer, neither

does a man!

<hr /></blockquote>

I think I understand but do not agree that

somebody must be in charge. That is, IMHO, a misconception we are taught from earliest childhood and is wrong. The

only person I am in charge of is me and I expect that from the people around me.

As for comunism,

completely unacceptable in it\'s basic structure. People achieve for the rewards, whether they be monetary or

personal.

belgareth

02-08-2004, 09:41 PM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
whats this younger woman bashing? Im

only 20 and i go for the nice guys! Ill only be with mature, kind men who respect me!!! if theyre jerks to me im SO

gone. I dont care about money, i dont care about looks or cars or other materialistic crap like that. Ive had plenty

of chances to be with hot rich men, but they were assholes so i said BYE!

If a woman has half a brain, if SHE is

worth being with, shell go for the nice guys, the smart guys, the guys who have brains and heart! If she ditches Mr

wonderful, then shes an idiot and she wasnt worth the trouble in the first place! Im worth the extra effort, and any

man im with should be worth that extra too!

<hr /></blockquote>

Good attitude! Just

what I am saying a woman should be.

OCP

02-08-2004, 10:07 PM

OCP

02-08-2004, 10:11 PM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
I think I understand but do not agree that somebody

must be in charge. That is, IMHO, a misconception we are taught from earliest childhood and is wrong. The only

person I am in charge of is me and I expect that from the people around me.

<hr /></blockquote>

Then who makes the final decision if you and your S/O disagree.?

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

tounge

02-08-2004, 10:57 PM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
I dont care about money, i dont care

about looks or cars or other materialistic crap like that. Ive had plenty of chances to be with hot rich men, but

they were assholes so i said BYE!

<hr /></blockquote> Right! Hello Mother Theresa.

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

franki

02-09-2004, 12:41 AM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
If you have been a broke-ass college student you know it is alot easier to

\"get girls\" when you can flash at least \"a bit\" of money. Another advantage of making money is that you can

actually \"get a life\".. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

<hr /></blockquote>

I was for four very long years. Made no difference, still had plenty of female company. Some of

the finest women I\'ve ever known because they had brains as well as looks.

<hr /></blockquote>

I probably should have said that it is maybe more your \"appearance\" that matters, like

friendly1 said.

franki

02-09-2004, 12:59 AM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
If you have been a broke-ass college student you know it is alot easier to

\"get girls\" when you can flash at least \"a bit\" of money. Another advantage of making money is that you can

actually \"get a life\".. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

<hr /></blockquote>

I was for four very long years. Made no difference, still had plenty of female company. Some of

the finest women I\'ve ever known because they had brains as well as looks.

<hr /></blockquote>

Did you study in the 70s in California? Then you probably did get laid as well quite often..

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Perhaps times changed a bit as well since then.

CJ01

02-09-2004, 02:50 AM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Quote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

But most <a

href=\"http://www.ntsearch.com/search.php?q=single&v=55\">single</a> women are looking for long-term

relationships when they are looking at all.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

OH yes. All girls I

know want men for real longterm relationships! Yeah right!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

You managed to quote

the whole sentence but not pay attention to what it says. Two demerits for you, my dear.

<hr

/></blockquote> I was being sarcastic dunno about yours first comment. Explöain how you

meant it then if I got it wrong /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

CJ01

02-09-2004, 02:52 AM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Quote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

whats this younger woman

bashing? Im only 20 and i go for the nice guys! Ill only be with mature, kind men who respect me!!! if theyre jerks

to me im SO gone. I dont care about money, i dont care about looks or cars or other materialistic crap like that.

Ive had plenty of chances to be with hot rich men, but they were assholes so i said BYE!

If a woman has half a

brain, if SHE is worth being with, shell go for the nice guys, the smart guys, the guys who have brains and heart!

If she ditches Mr wonderful, then shes an idiot and she wasnt worth the trouble in the first place! Im worth the

extra effort, and any man im with should be worth that extra too!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Good attitude! Just

what I am saying a woman should be.

<hr /></blockquote> hey, we´re all like that here

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

belgareth

02-09-2004, 04:52 AM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
I think I understand but do not agree that somebody must be in charge. That

is, IMHO, a misconception we are taught from earliest childhood and is wrong. The only person I am in charge of is

me and I expect that from the people around me.

<hr /></blockquote>

Then who

makes the final decision if you and your S/O disagree.? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

<hr /></blockquote>

Why does there have to be a final decision or an agreement? We are

both adults and can both be trusted to act in our mutual interest. If we do not agree, we talk and work out a

reasonable compromise? It works well for us. I think we have a fundamental disconnect regarding our basic

philosophy. I don\'t believe humans need to be managed, that they are capable of managing themselves.

Elana

02-09-2004, 04:57 AM

Note to all of the men here...

Kindly stop categorizing all women or even the majority of women

as shallow money grubbers. It is hurtful and untrue. I am not like that, the other women on this forum are not like

that, my friends are not like that. Yes, they exist. But when you make it sound like it is an unusual thing to run

into a woman that is independent and cares about what is inside rather than a mans wallet, it is insulting.

markus

02-09-2004, 05:13 AM

wow, 45 new posts since i last read this thread. and it was only yesterday evening.

well, as much as

i want to answer and read everything, my brain cannot handle so much info at one time.

and any how got to go soon

meet a woman. have to get ready: dress up and take the thick wallet

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

franki

02-09-2004, 05:17 AM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Note to all of the men

here...

Kindly stop categorizing all women or even the majority of women as shallow money grubbers. It is hurtful

and untrue. I am not like that, the other women on this forum are not like that, my friends are not like that. Yes,

they exist. But when you make it sound like it is an unusual thing to run into a woman that is independent and cares

about what is inside rather than a mans wallet, it is insulting.

<hr /></blockquote>

and the girls will stop calling all men pigs?

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Elana

02-09-2004, 05:24 AM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Note to all of the men here...

Kindly stop categorizing all women or even

the majority of women as shallow money grubbers. It is hurtful and untrue. I am not like that, the other women on

this forum are not like that, my friends are not like that. Yes, they exist. But when you make it sound like it is

an unusual thing to run into a woman that is independent and cares about what is inside rather than a mans wallet,

it is insulting.

<hr /></blockquote>

and the girls will stop calling all men pigs?

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

<hr /></blockquote>

Huh?

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif
When did I call you pigs?

belgareth

02-09-2004, 05:24 AM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
If you have

been a broke-ass college student you know it is alot easier to \"get girls\" when you can flash at least \"a

bit\" of money. Another advantage of making money is that you can actually \"get a life\"..

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

<hr /></blockquote>

I was for four

very long years. Made no difference, still had plenty of female company. Some of the finest women I\'ve ever known

because they had brains as well as looks.

<hr /></blockquote>

Did you study in the

70s in California? Then you probably did get laid as well quite often..

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Perhaps times changed a bit as well since then.

<hr

/></blockquote>

California in the 80\'s but I doubt that had much to do with it. I have

plenty of opportunity in Texas in 2004.

franki

02-09-2004, 05:25 AM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Note to all of the men here...

Kindly stop categorizing all women or even

the majority of women as shallow money grubbers. It is hurtful and untrue. I am not like that, the other women on

this forum are not like that, my friends are not like that. Yes, they exist. But when you make it sound like it is

an unusual thing to run into a woman that is independent and cares about what is inside rather than a mans wallet,

it is insulting.

<hr /></blockquote>

and the girls will stop calling all men pigs?

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

<hr /></blockquote>

I for one

wouldn\'t call all girls \"shallow money grubbers\" at all.

When you look at women who have good jobs / nice

careers, you will see though that they are almost looking for a partner with the same status or an even higher

status. Most of these women are not shallow golddiggers in my book.

franki

02-09-2004, 05:26 AM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Note to all

of the men here...

Kindly stop categorizing all women or even the majority of women as shallow money grubbers. It

is hurtful and untrue. I am not like that, the other women on this forum are not like that, my friends are not like

that. Yes, they exist. But when you make it sound like it is an unusual thing to run into a woman that is

independent and cares about what is inside rather than a mans wallet, it is insulting.

<hr

/></blockquote>

and the girls will stop calling all men pigs?

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

<hr /></blockquote>

Huh?

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif
When did I call you pigs?

<hr /></blockquote>

Sorry, it was a bad joke.. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

Sexyredhead

02-09-2004, 05:27 AM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
If you have been a broke-ass college

student you know it is alot easier to \"get girls\" when you can flash at least \"a bit\" of money. Another

advantage of making money is that you can actually \"get a life\"..

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

<hr /></blockquote>

That\'s not

entirely true. If you\'re imaginative and observant enough to come up with things to do that don\'t involve

money, or at least not more than a quick meal/snack, you can take a girl out and entertain her on even a teeny

budget.

Gossamer_2701

02-09-2004, 05:39 AM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Note to all of the men here...

Kindly stop categorizing all women or even the majority of women as shallow money grubbers. It is hurtful and

untrue. I am not like that, the other women on this forum are not like that, my friends are not like that. Yes, they

exist. But when you make it sound like it is an unusual thing to run into a woman that is independent and cares

about what is inside rather than a mans wallet, it is insulting.

<hr /></blockquote>

I have not personally clasified any women (on this forum or otherwise) as each and every one is a unique spirit. I

know quite a few women and I must say that from my personal experience, the numbers are closer to 50-50. BUT, all of

them say that they are looking for something deeper than a wallet or great looks. However, years of actions speak

more of a truth then their words could ever say.

No women bashing here...

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Elana

02-09-2004, 05:40 AM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
BUT, all of them say that they are

looking for something deeper than a wallet or great looks. However, years of actions speak more of a truth then

their words could ever say.

<hr /></blockquote>

So my comment fell on deaf ears.

What a shame /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif

belgareth

02-09-2004, 05:41 AM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Note to all of the men here...

Kindly stop categorizing all women or even

the majority of women as shallow money grubbers. It is hurtful and untrue. I am not like that, the other women on

this forum are not like that, my friends are not like that. Yes, they exist. But when you make it sound like it is

an unusual thing to run into a woman that is independent and cares about what is inside rather than a mans wallet,

it is insulting.

<hr /></blockquote>
I have not personally clasified any women (on

this forum or otherwise) as each and every one is a unique spirit. I know quite a few women and I must say that from

my personal experience, the numbers are closer to 50-50. BUT, all of them say that they are looking for something

deeper than a wallet or great looks. However, years of actions speak more of a truth then their words could ever

say.

No women bashing here... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

<hr /></blockquote>

The ratio depends on where you go to meet women.

Gossamer_2701

02-09-2004, 06:04 AM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
So my comment fell on deaf ears. What

a shame

<hr /></blockquote>
Elana... Your comment did not fall on deaf ears

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif My point was that I judge EVERYONE on an individual basis...
I have

a number of female friends, and I accept each of them for who they are, individually. But the 50% that that are

looking for nothing more than a deep wallet, claim that they just want \'Mr. nice guy\'
All I meant to convey

is.... Everyones perception of themselves and their actions is a little biased.
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
The ratio depends on where you go to meet women

<hr /></blockquote>
You\'re absolutely right..... the numbers are much different here in a my small town compared

to say New York or LA. Besides, this is just my personal observation of female friends, NOT ex-girlfriends.

Elana

02-09-2004, 06:19 AM

I am sorry that I misunderstood what you were trying to say, I just get so tired of hearing this. I

have always made more money than the guys I dated in college. I felt bad for them, because I knew that it wasn\'t

easy going to school and having to fork out big bucks to take women (me out) so I paid many times. I have told men

to stop buying me flowers because I couldn\'t stand to see them waste their money on something that would die a

few days later. I respect men and don\'t look at them as my personal ATM machine.

belgareth

02-09-2004, 06:32 AM

It\'s not just the towns, it\'s the environment you choose to hunt in.If you go to popular bars you

are going to meet one group. If you spend time around business people, you\'ll meet another.

Another thing

I\'ve noticed is how often people live up to your expectations of them. If you think they are a gold digger or a

wonderful, generous soul, you will probably find all sorts of evidence to prove that they do meet your pre-concieved

notions.

Gossamer_2701

02-09-2004, 06:39 AM

Elana... point taken /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif And you are truly an incredible

person, as I figured out my first couple of days on this forum /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif but

you were judged on your own merits, and all women deserve the same....as well as men

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

And I certainly don\'t have a problem with a woman making

more money then me... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif cough...sugar-mama...cough

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Elana

02-09-2004, 06:41 AM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Elana... point taken

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif And you are truly an incredible person, as I figured out my first

couple of days on this forum /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif but you were judged on your own

merits, and all women deserve the same....as well as men /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

And I

certainly don\'t have a problem with a woman making more money then me...

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif cough...sugar-mama...cough

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

<hr /></blockquote>

Come here

and give me a hug. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Gossamer_2701

02-09-2004, 06:46 AM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Come here and give me a hug.

<hr

/></blockquote>

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif I am soooo there /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Elana

02-09-2004, 06:50 AM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Come here and give me a hug.

<hr /></blockquote>

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif I am soooo there /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

<hr /></blockquote>

OK...you are

squishing me. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif

Icarus

02-09-2004, 08:02 AM

So.... I\'m confused.

Are women friend or foe?

apple

02-09-2004, 08:35 AM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
So.... I\'m confused.

Are

women friend or foe?

<hr /></blockquote>

some are friends some are foes! just

gotta go out there, get to know a whole bunch of them, and find the good ones

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

<blockquote>Quote:<hr

/>
You are an exception and that is why everyone likes you around the forum.

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

<hr /></blockquote>
thank you!!!!

oscar

02-09-2004, 08:42 AM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
\"Note to ALL of the men here...

Kindly stop categorizing all

women or even the majority of women as shallow money grubbers. It is hurtful and untrue. I am not like that, the

other women on this forum are not like that, my friends are not like that. Yes, they exist. But when you make it

sound like it is an unusual thing to run into a woman that is independent and cares about what is inside rather than

a mans wallet, it is insulting.\" - Elana

<hr /></blockquote>

ALL of the

men here????????

ALL????? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

Et tu, Elana?

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif

ET ******* TU????

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Oscar /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Elana

02-09-2004, 08:46 AM

Point well

taken......

I change that to.....

Note to most of you men here....

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif

Sorry Bel, Oscar, Goss and the few other men that actually

see us crazy females as individuals.

Elana

02-09-2004, 08:48 AM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
ET ******* TU????

<hr /></blockquote>

One of her best quotes ever. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

oscar

02-09-2004, 08:59 AM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
ET ******* TU????

<hr /></blockquote>

One of

her best quotes ever. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

<hr /></blockquote>

Truly!

O /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Rakesh

02-09-2004, 09:40 AM

Reading it back, Friendly1 is basically full of speed seduction guides that say basically\"be a total

[censored] and you will prolly get away with it for long enough to get laid\". You know, they work. On the sort of

women nobody with two neural cells alive outside his testicles would ever come close to, that is. Oh well.

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

Elana

02-09-2004, 09:51 AM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Reading it back, Friendly1 is basically

full of speed seduction guides that say basically\"be a total [censored] and you will prolly get away with it for

long enough to get laid\". You know, they work. On the sort of women nobody with two neural cells alive outside his

testicles would ever come close to, that is. Oh well. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

<hr

/></blockquote>

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif Good post

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

CptKipling

02-09-2004, 11:05 AM

Funny thread /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Skyy

02-09-2004, 11:43 AM

I only bothered to read the first 3 posts. This thread blew up pretty fast.

I will assume this was a thread

hijacking /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Holmes

02-09-2004, 11:46 AM

CptKipling

02-09-2004, 11:55 AM

Having just noticed there is more than one page to this thread (

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif ), I\'d like to post my opinion...

The key word that was

mentioned a few times is \"gentleman\". Somewhere along the line, the correct definition (or at least the

definition I try to live by) seems to have been slightly confused.

First of all, an essential part of being a

gentleman is being nice, or to be more specific, to treat people well (e.g. do unto others as you would wish be done

unto you [badly paraphrased, so sue me /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif], and try to adhere to

what is morally correct. If you don\'t know how to do any of that, you may as well hang up your seducing boots

now.

Now the part where a lot of people (read \"some men\") slip up; doing the above doesn’t mean you have to

be a pussy. You can do all of the above and be respected and admired by the majority of people, as a proper

gentleman should be. How? By keeping your self respect! One of the worst things you can do to undermine your self

respect is to be overly munificent, which in this case means being generous to someone with your time and effort

(yes, not just your money) when they have done nothing to deserve it. Ok, so we all should do this sometimes (I

suppose that\'s all part of being a good person, turn the other cheek and such), but it\'s quite ridiculous how

much needy guys do this to girls. One of the best things to have come out of my reading the various \"seduction

guru’s\" articles is this: Women love a challenge. If you are too easy for them to control and seduce then you

vanish into the ever expanding sea of unremarkable guys that they have encountered.

It\'s also very important

to stand by your own opinions, views, and rights, as doing otherwise to please or appease someone else is a form of

supplication.

To briefly touch on Elana\'s favourite subject, i think it\'s a shame that a few shallow women

cause some men to be paranoid about the rest of the female population.

p.s. all girls have germs and boys

should stay away. Girls are horrible. Urrgh.

OCP

02-09-2004, 12:07 PM

OCP

02-09-2004, 12:11 PM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
So.... I\'m confused.

Are women friend or foe?

<hr /></blockquote>

For me they are friend.

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

OCP

02-09-2004, 12:13 PM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Reading it back, Friendly1 is basically full of

speed seduction guides that say basically\"be a total [censored] and you will prolly get away with it for long

enough to get laid\". You know, they work. On the sort of women nobody with two neural cells alive outside his

testicles would ever come close to, that is. Oh well. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

<hr

/></blockquote>

Or leikys 101 /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

OCP

02-09-2004, 12:17 PM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
I think I

understand but do not agree that somebody must be in charge. That is, IMHO, a misconception we are taught from

earliest childhood and is wrong. The only person I am in charge of is me and I expect that from the people around

me.

<hr /></blockquote>

Then who makes the final decision if you and your S/O

disagree.? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

<hr /></blockquote>

Why does there have to be a final decision or an agreement? We are both adults and can both be

trusted to act in our mutual interest. If we do not agree, we talk and work out a reasonable compromise? It works

well for us. I think we have a fundamental disconnect regarding our basic philosophy. I don\'t believe humans need

to be managed, that they are capable of managing themselves.

<hr /></blockquote>

Mostly I have no arguements with you, but sometimes a compromise can not be made and someone

has to make the decision. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Icarus

02-09-2004, 01:37 PM

To summarise:

Woman are things.

Men are Baboons.

Lets lindy like t\'were 1955.

Steve

Elana

02-09-2004, 01:45 PM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Lets lindy like t\'were 1955.

<hr /></blockquote>

Twirl me like you have never twirled me before

Icarus

02-09-2004, 01:46 PM

Not in these shoes, dear.

OCP

02-09-2004, 02:46 PM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Note to all of the men here...

Kindly stop categorizing all women or even

the majority of women as shallow money grubbers. It is hurtful and untrue. I am not like that, the other women on

this forum are not like that, my friends are not like that. Yes, they exist. But when you make it sound like it is

an unusual thing to run into a woman that is independent and cares about what is inside rather than a mans wallet,

it is insulting.

<hr /></blockquote>

and the girls will stop calling all men pigs?

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

<hr /></blockquote>

I am a pig and

proud of it....oink, oink /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

belgareth

02-09-2004, 03:32 PM

OCP

02-09-2004, 03:37 PM