How do men react to women's pheromones?

[Friendly1]

I was asked to help with a dance class the other day. There were maybe 20 women in the class and about

15 men. I spend a lot of time with women of all ages and looks. I am usually pretty comfortable around them. But

I had trouble speaking and my heart was racing. I couldn\'t believe the way I was feeling. I had to stop and

calm myself down by taking some deep breaths as disceetly as possible.

How do men react to women\'s pheromones?

Is it possible one of those ladies was playing the same game as me? Do any of you guys have experience on the

receiving end of pheromones?

[CJ01]

could be that someone was wearing mones /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif but perhaps you were

feeling just a bit nervous in the situation?

[Pancho1188]

I\'d have to guess that it probably wasn\'t -mones because I highly doubt that they would cause men

to become unable to speak...at least in theory, one would assume that women who use -mones would want their male

\'targets\' to talk to them, not become bumbling nervous wrecks.


Pancho

PS: Okay, I admit it. I was in

your dance class, too, and was wearing -mones to mess with you... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Yeah, right... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

[pico]

well, one day one of my friends suddenly appeared so attractive, like having an aura, that made me just

not stop looking at her, i\'m sure she was wearing mones, or something similar but i\'ve known this girl for a

long time and its like this one day she suddenly appeared stunning...even though she had not done anything to her

hair or anything

[Friendly1]

Does that mean your friend was wearing pheromones, though?

I suppose I could have been nervous. I

had an important function to attend later on and it was on my mind. Also had something else going on. So, my

nerves could have been very tight and being around all those women, some of whom were very sexy, could have pushed

me past my self-control.

That just seems so unusual. I don\'t get tongue-tied around women and I sure don\'t

feel my heart beating in my ears.

I was just curious about what it\'s like when a man encounters a woman

wearing pheromones.

[SwingerMD]

I think it would depend on which phero that they are wearing. -Nol is something that is present in

products that for men and women. It is know for influencing people to be more chatty reguardless of sex. For

example I get really chatty hits from wearing SOE from women and men (if I\'m not careful

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif ).

As for copulins, they strike me as the female version of

-none. Use too much and . . . /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif . . .

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif . . . /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif . . .

.

--------------------

<font color=\"blue\"> -SwingerMD </font>

[Sexyredhead]

Wearing EW in my hair has made men stutter and lose their train of thought for several minutes at a

time, especially after getting really close, like with dancing or a hug. It\'s not a nervous thing, but more of a

sudden-mind-going-blank-and-obviously-trying-to-remember-what-the-conversation-was-about-because-they\'re-suddenly

-focused-on-sex kind of thing. I posted on it ages ago the first time it happened, and I don\'t think I\'m the

only one. I think FTR or Elana has had the same thing happen.

And it was very diluted EW, so that even

I couldn\'t smell it, so it wasn\'t the smell that was making them speechless.

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

[Friendly1]

Perhaps, being a little apprehensive about what was coming after the class, and being in so small an

area with so many women, I was just getting naturally excited. It would be interesting to meet a woman who is

wearing pheromone supplements and then learn that after the initial encounter. I\'d like to know what it feels

like.

[Pancho1188]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Wearing EW in my hair has made men

stutter and lose their train of thought for several minutes at a time, especially after getting really close, like

with dancing or a hug. It\'s not a nervous thing, but more of a

sudden-mind-going-blank-and-obviously-trying-to-remember-what-the-conversation-was-about-because-they\'re-suddenly

-focused-on-sex kind of thing. I posted on it ages ago the first time it happened, and I don\'t think I\'m the

only one. I think FTR or Elana has had the same thing happen.

And it was very diluted EW, so that even

I couldn\'t smell it, so it wasn\'t the smell that was making them speechless.

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

I\'d have

to say that that\'s not very reliable.........because drop-dead gorgeous women make men speechless, anyway...

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

[SwingerMD]

Perhaps those drop-dead gorgeous women that make men speechless are producing more copulins than the

average woman.

--------------------
<font color=\"blue\"> -SwingerMD </font>

[Sexyredhead]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font

class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Wearing EW in my hair has made men stutter and lose their train of thought

for several minutes at a time, especially after getting really close, like with dancing or a hug. It\'s not a

nervous thing, but more of a

sudden-mind-going-blank-and-obviously-trying-to-remember-what-the-conversation-was-about-because-they\'re-suddenly

-focused-on-sex kind of thing. I posted on it ages ago the first time it happened, and I don\'t think I\'m the

only one. I think FTR or Elana has had the same thing happen.

And it was very diluted EW, so that even

I couldn\'t smell it, so it wasn\'t the smell that was making them speechless.

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

I\'d have

to say that that\'s not very reliable.........because drop-dead gorgeous women make men speechless, anyway...

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

True.

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

[belgareth]

Some of you will remember Wolfe. He learned about pheromones from his girlfriend. When she was getting

ready to move to the east coast in a job transfer she gave him the last of her mones and explained that was how she

caught him. He told me the first time he met her he was almost speechless and believes it was the pheromones.



Several months ago I was in the grocery store and a woman came up behind me in line. She either was wearing

synthetic mones or had a lot of natural excretions. I sensed her from four feet away before turning around! Nearly

gave myself whiplash. She was about average in appearance but sure was attractive. Normally, I talk to almost

anybody but I was, for once in my life, tongue tied. What made it worse was when she noticed, she started to

giggle.

So, yes i do believe mones can do that to a man.

[bjf]

Wolfe where are you??? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Bel, your story supports

the theory that DIHLs are sexual in nature, and more than just confusion. I have seen some debate over whether a

DIHL was just sensory overload or whether a feeling of attraction is also involved.

I used to think it was

confusion etc, but seeing the smiles I have gotten after DIHLs, particuarly from older women who are more

comfortable with what is going on, I have come to believe it is sexual. Then again, it is possible to get DIHLs

from same sex heteros, so who knows /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif?

Perhaps the biology

that causes the feeling of sexual attraction is going on in all cases though.

[Sagacious1420]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
I sensed her from four feet away before

turning around! Nearly gave myself whiplash. She was about average in appearance but sure was attractive. Normally,

I talk to almost anybody but I was, for once in my life, tongue tied.

<hr /></blockquote><font

class=\"post\">Bel-
I\'ve had the same type of experience myself. It\'s like you feel her near long before

you see her and you just have to look. I really don\'t think that in my case, the girl was wearing synthetics,

though. Every time I run into this girl I get that flustered/tongue tied thing. She\'s very cute, but not

necessarily drop-dead gorgeous, so I don\'t attribute it to her appearance. Besides, like I said, I felt her

\"presence\" before I ever saw her.

Regarding synthetics:

I have a friend who has been having intimacy

problems w/ her bf. She knows I\'m into EOs and we\'ve talked about the aphrodesiac qualities of certain EOs

before. So I crafted an \"aphrodesiac\" blend for her. I mixed up a nice fragrance and spiked it w/ pheros. It

is much lower in concentration than what the ladies on the forum seem to use, but is was also intended for intimate

situations so I felt that the minimalist approach would be best. I told her that it contained some powerful

aphrodesiacs and that it is best saved for time w/ her bf, rather than for wearing out in public. She\'s not

looking for hits from other guys. She has worn it around me a few times. The concentration seems to be appropriate

since I don\'t notice any effect unless I\'m sitting right next to her or she asks me to smell it and give my

opinion as to whether it suits her. I can\'t say that it induced an intense DIHL reaction. However, I have

noticed that it has a definite effect on me. I feel flushed and my heart races. My reactions seem very

automatic/instinctual. It\'s kinda hard to put into words. I get this mild-moderate \"other worldly\" feeling.

I get an irresistable urge to inhale the scent and to kiss her. That actually happened the first time...took a

whiff of her neck and kissed her on the application area...just as I\'ve had women do to me when I use pheros.

Like I said, it was just automatic and I wasn\'t really thinking about it at the time. Luckily, we\'re very

close friends so this wouldn\'t have freaked her out or anything. One thing is certain, it makes me feel VERY

HORNY. She tells me that it makes HER feel VERY HORNY too.

[belgareth]

I\'ve been exploring whether DIHLs are a form of trance, similar to hypnosis. They have a lot of

similarities. If they are, the potential for suggestability is interesting.

[Friendly1]

Interesting stuff. From what I have read about copulins, I don\'t see how they can have an airborne

effect. They seem to addict men through sexual intercourse to the women who secrete them. But I\'m no expert.

Maybe I missed something.

I think there were a lot of pheromones in that room. Maybe there were synthetics and

maybe not. I\'ll get another chance to see if I have a similar reaction in a few days although it won\'t be

exactly the same crowd.

I don\'t remember ever having anything like a stupifying DIHL reaction to a girl.

There are times when I\'ve just wanted to look. But I didn\'t feel lost or clouded.

[Sagacious1420]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
I\'ve been exploring whether DIHLs

are a form of trance, similar to hypnosis. They have a lot of similarities. If they are, the potential for

suggestability is interesting.

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">Bel-

I know the issue of exactly

what a DIHL response is has been discussed before. IMO, what I would consider a DIHL reaction seems much less

intense and rather brief, more like being temporarily awestruck. I have seen the really intense reactions, more

like a DIOS, and they do seem to be trance like (and rare). I\'ve never found them to be useful. It seems as if

the person is so out of it that they\'re kinda incapacitated...can hardly move or speak, virtually unresponsive.

The first time I witnessed this, it was really freaky. Of course, I don\'t know that it was any less bizarre on

subsequent occasions.

[Sagacious1420]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
I have seen some debate over whether a

DIHL was just sensory overload or whether a feeling of attraction is also involved.

<hr /></blockquote><font

class=\"post\">I think it\'s a bit of both.

[Sagacious1420]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Interesting stuff. From what I have

read about copulins, I don\'t see how they can have an airborne effect.

<hr /></blockquote><font

class=\"post\">No disrespect, but how else would you explain it?

</font><blockquote><font

class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
They seem to addict men through sexual intercourse to the women who secrete

them.

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">Are you saying that the effect is after the fact or post

coitus?

[Friendly1]

I read a technical paper on how copulins work a few weeks ago. I do not have the URL for reference.

According to that paper, the longer the man stays inside his partner, the more copulins actually flow into him. He

eventually becomes susceptible to a woman\'s suggestions (or, so the researcher argues).

You can read the same

information on this Web

site:

[url=\"http://www.copulins.freeservers.com/index.html\"]http://www.copulins.freeservers.com/index.html[/u

rl]

This is probably the source for the information in the technical paper I read.

According to this

researcher, copulins are not airborne. She does not talk about \"addiction\" or bonding a man to a woman through

copulins. That may be something the writer of the other paper picked up somewhere else. Or it may be a bunch of

nonsense.

But I haven\'t found any technical papers which argue that copulins make women more attractive to

men. It seems to me that women would be repelled by copulins from other women because they didn\'t have a hold on

the man with the copulins (if that makes sense). There seems to be no consensus on whether copulins can be

detected.

But their function appears to be something other than an airborne signal carrier.

[Sagacious1420]

Thanks for the link. While I haven\'t had a chance to look over the whole site, I do see some

assertions that seem questionable. For example: \"Most couples who have been together long enough know that the

female has the ability to \"control\" the male\'s behavior.\" Or...\"When copulins are transmitted from female

to male, a dramatic change occurs: the male\'s brain is completely open to the female\'s input.\" You could

also argue that it\'s due to incessant nagging. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

After a

brief perusal of her site all I can say is...hmmmmm.

\"copulins detect male semen\", \"travel through the

penile duct and into the gonads where they are then transmitted by the bloodstream directly to the hypothalamus\"

and \"mutates the hypothalamus for its own purposes.\" \"The more often copulins are transmitted to the male

hypothalamus, the quicker they take effect, because the copulins themselves inhibit the hypothalmus from remembering

how to correctly function when a foreign agent enters it. The hypothalamus \"thinks\" the copulins are its own

hormones and allows the copulins to shut down its own directive.\" Yet another good reason to use condoms.

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

I also noticed that she asserts that \"All pheromones are

detected by the vomeronasal organ via the nose\". I don\'t know that there is a consensus that all pheros are

detected by the VNO or that it is required for them to be effective.

She says that cops are not airborne, but

cops are acids...correct. If acids weren\'t capable of being airborne, then how is it that we can smell acids.

It makes me wonder why I get the same reaction to inhaling cops from a bottle as I do from the \"scent\" of an

aroused woman. Simply put, it turns me on. While one could argue that this reaction is merely a conditioned

response resulting from prior \"experience\", it wouldn\'t explain having the same reaction to that \"scent\"

during a makeout/heavy petting session as a young teen...before I ever had intercourse. Long before I ever had

intercourse, it was still turned me on.

I suppose that for now, I\'ll try to keep an open mind and take a

closer look at what she has to say. If nothing else, this could stimulate some interesting discussion on the forum.

[Irish]

One researcher (Astrid Jutte) found that men\'s testosterone levels jumped when they sniffed

copulins. Other researchers have done brainscans on men sniffing estrogen-like substances and noticed the men\'s

brains light up in the sex-response areas. Smelling these female substances causes measurable responses in men.

[bjf]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
It seems to me that women would be

repelled by copulins from other women because they didn\'t have a hold on the man with the copulins (if that makes

sense). There seems to be no consensus on whether copulins can be detected.


<hr /></blockquote><font

class=\"post\">

This relates to a question I once asked about cops. PCC and EW are different \"types\" of

cops. How many different types of cops can women produce, and how many does an individual woman produce?

If a

woman produces just one type, and it is the same as a synthetic product, wouldn\'t she believe those cops are

hers?

Could this explain why in a few cases, men have said wearing cops does increase the connection with their

mate, or a stranger felt like they had known them for years?

[jvkohl]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />

After a brief perusal of her site all

I can say is...hmmmmm.


<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

After what may be an even more brief

perusal, and especially after reading: \"It has been widely accepted by the hormonology community....\" I can only

say the information is of little use, since most of it is, at best, misleading. For example, I\'ve never before

seen a reference to \"the hormonology community.\" The study of hormones is called endocrinology, not

hormonology.

Note that Astrid Jutte has shown that sniffing copulins increased testosterone levels in men

(exactly as was anticipated from animal studies). The information presented on the linked site ignores data from

animal and human studies and presents incorrect assumptions, which appear to be based on extremely questionable data

gathered by the site\'s author.

[belgareth]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font

class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
I\'ve been exploring whether DIHLs are a form of trance, similar to

hypnosis. They have a lot of similarities. If they are, the potential for suggestability is interesting.

<hr

/></blockquote><font class=\"post\">Bel-

I know the issue of exactly what a DIHL response is has been discussed

before. IMO, what I would consider a DIHL reaction seems much less intense and rather brief, more like being

temporarily awestruck. I have seen the really intense reactions, more like a DIOS, and they do seem to be trance

like (and rare). I\'ve never found them to be useful. It seems as if the person is so out of it that they\'re

kinda incapacitated...can hardly move or speak, virtually unresponsive. The first time I witnessed this, it was

really freaky. Of course, I don\'t know that it was any less bizarre on subsequent occasions.

<hr

/></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

It sounds like you consider DIHL and DIOS as an on/off condition. More

likely it is a series of states ranging from no response to totally incapacitated. Once a person has come back to

earth from a DIHL, are they really in full control of their faculties? I don\'t think so. It seems more likely

thay will slow;y resume normal functioning over a period of time, in part based on the continuing exposure to mones,

or lack of. If that is correct, once they have started back to earth, the person should be much more susceptable to

suggestion. The majority of people readily accept suggestion anyway, even in a normal state. A person whose higher

functions have just been overwhelmed should accept suggestion more readily than normal.

[Sagacious1420]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font

class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
I\'ve been

exploring whether DIHLs are a form of trance, similar to hypnosis. They have a lot of similarities. If they are, the

potential for suggestability is interesting.

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">Bel-

I know the

issue of exactly what a DIHL response is has been discussed before. IMO, what I would consider a DIHL reaction

seems much less intense and rather brief, more like being temporarily awestruck. I have seen the really intense

reactions, more like a DIOS, and they do seem to be trance like (and rare). I\'ve never found them to be useful.

It seems as if the person is so out of it that they\'re kinda incapacitated...can hardly move or speak, virtually

unresponsive. The first time I witnessed this, it was really freaky. Of course, I don\'t know that it was any

less bizarre on subsequent occasions.

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

It sounds like you

consider DIHL and DIOS as an on/off condition. More likely it is a series of states ranging from no response to

totally incapacitated. Once a person has come back to earth from a DIHL, are they really in full control of their

faculties? I don\'t think so. It seems more likely thay will slow;y resume normal functioning over a period of

time, in part based on the continuing exposure to mones, or lack of. If that is correct, once they have started back

to earth, the person should be much more susceptable to suggestion. The majority of people readily accept suggestion

anyway, even in a normal state. A person whose higher functions have just been overwhelmed should accept suggestion

more readily than normal.

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">Not necessarily on or off. I think the

difference between the two is a matter of intensity and duration, a matter of degrees if you prefer. Women seem to

recover from a DIHL rather quickly and easily, by comparison. I\'ll never forget one incident where 3 girls where

in a DIOS for a very long time (maybe 30 minutes, probably longer). The one that I was targeting (closest to me)

became virtually unable to speak, she struggled to do so but just couldn\'t make it happen. She was unresponsive

to touch or suggestion...aside from smiling and bowing her head. Every few minutes I would turn and talk to some

guys sitting at the bar on the other side of me because trying to keep the conversation going w/ these ladies

(especially my target) became rather tedious. None of them could hold EC for more than a few seconds before they

would take on a submissive posture...the bizarre thing was that they were acting in unison. During the first 10

minutes or so of interacting w/ these women, they behaved normally...talkative and outgoing. One of their friends

had to pull this girl off the bar stool and drag her out the place when they were ready to leave. She was totally

out of it, but did seem to be coming around once her friend \"broke the spell\". Obviously this incident involved

alcohol and I can only think of one time when the girl was not drinking...not that anything this intense has

happened that many times. I do recall one time that the woman may have been open to suggestion, since she was more

than happy to oblige when I said that we should go back to her place. However, this particular woman was not nerely

as out of it as the ones mentioned above...I don\'t think she\'d had as much to drink as the others. Can\'t

really say for sure, I could be wrong about that. If these things weren\'t so rare, it would be much easier to

test the suggestability theory.

[Friendly1]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />

After what may be an even more brief

perusal, and especially after reading: \"It has been widely accepted by the hormonology community....\" I can only

say the information is of little use, since most of it is, at best, misleading. For example, I\'ve never before

seen a reference to \"the hormonology community.\" The study of hormones is called endocrinology, not

hormonology.

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

Not to seem argumentative, as I value your opinion in

such matters, the word \"hormonology\" can be found in the literature. It is an older term but I can point to

some examples of concurrent use with \"endocrinology\" (such as

this one (\"http://www.bri.ucla.edu/nha/hnl/msg01120.htm\")) in recent online discussion groups.

So, I

have no real opinion on the value of the Web site I referred to above, other than that it does contain some of the

assertions I had read elsewhere.

But I have been around long enough to know that garbage is widely and evenly

distributed on the Internet.

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Note that Astrid

Jutte has shown that sniffing copulins increased testosterone levels in men (exactly as was anticipated from animal

studies). The information presented on the linked site ignores data from animal and human studies and presents

incorrect assumptions, which appear to be based on extremely questionable data gathered by the site\'s

author.

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

Cannot argue with you there, although I have found very

little about Astrid Jutte\'s work. Numerous mentions in passing, but that is about it.

[jvkohl]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />

Not to seem argumentative, as I value

your opinion in such matters, the word \"hormonology\" can be found in the literature. It is an older term but I

can point to some examples of concurrent use with \"endocrinology\" (such as

this one (\"http://www.bri.ucla.edu/nha/hnl/msg01120.htm\")) in recent online discussion groups.

<hr

/></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

Will take your word for it, thanks. Guess I should have first done a

search--such a simple thing. Still, I was
biased overall by a very \"scatterbrained\" approach. The author needs

much more foundation for many assertions.

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />

So, I

have no real opinion on the value of the Web site I referred to above, other than that it does contain some of the

assertions I had read elsewhere.

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

That\'s part of the problem for

me; repeating assertions that have no basis in fact may sometimes bias others against the facts. For example, if

you\'ve been told for years that visual input is most important to the development of food preferences (it\'s

unlikely that this is the case), you might repeat this assertion to your kids et.al. Soon many people might believe

that food preferences are based upon visual appeal of the food, just like many people believe that mate preferences

are based on visual appeal rather than conditioned to olfactory input (e.g, pheromones).
</font><blockquote><font

class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />

But I have been around long enough to know that garbage is widely and

evenly distributed on the Internet.

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

Agreed, sometimes it\'s

difficult to determine what\'s correct.

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
... I

have found very little about Astrid Jutte\'s work. Numerous mentions in passing, but that is about it.

<hr

/></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

For a while, I had a link to her homepage at Ludwig Bolzman Institute; not

sure it\'s still there. Her work was published
in German, which may help explain why she is not more widely known

in the US. But also, she has not done any pheromone research for several years, which is a

shame.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=PubMed&amp;cmd=Retrieve&amp;list_uids=948387 4&amp

;dopt=Abstract (\"http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=PubMed&amp;cmd=Retrieve&amp;list_uids=948387 4&amp

;dopt=Abstract\")

A name search should turn up more, but her name shows up under two spellings Jutte and

Juette, or sometimes with pronunciation cues.

[Friendly1]

Okay. For the record, I will accept that copulins are airborne and have been shown to have an impact

on male physiology in that mode of contact.

Thanks for the link.

[Sagacious1420]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
extremely questionable data gathered by

the site\'s author.

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">After looking over that site, I\'m inclined to

agree w/ you. I was really impressed by the section \"Ongoing Research\" where she states \"More and more

research appears to support that copulins transmit orally also.\" However, her own \"research\" results show

that according to 81% of her survey respondants \"oral sex...had NO effect\" and she only mentions one other

\"researcher\" whose results seem to contradict her own. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif I also

found the Q &amp; A section particularly amusing.

[belgareth]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font

class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
I have seen some debate over whether a DIHL was just sensory overload or

whether a feeling of attraction is also involved.

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">I think it\'s a bit

of both.

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

Your probably right.

[Sagacious1420]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font

class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
I have seen

some debate over whether a DIHL was just sensory overload or whether a feeling of attraction is also

involved.

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">I think it\'s a bit of both.

<hr /></blockquote><font

class=\"post\">

Your probably right.

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">I just wonder how much one

hinders the other. That is, if the trance state is deep enough, does the degree of attraction really matter in the

end. Then again, maybe I\'m just no good at effective \"hypnotic suggeston\". One thing\'s for sure, if I

encountered that type of reaction more often, then it probably wouldn\'t freak me out so much. I could actually

take more action instead of just standing there WTFing, ya know.

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

On the other hand, I recently read an old post where FTR

described a pretty intense DIHL experience that she had. It would seem that one is capable of acting on

\"autopilot\" even in the midst of such a state. Then again, she was in the comfortable surroundings of her home

and not hanging out in a public place. Could it be that a simple \"Let\'s get outta here\" would actually work

in that situation? It sounds so incredibly simple that it might actually work.

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[bjf]

I know this isn\'t the best suggestion for everyone, and the circumstances also play a role, but

seranating (spl?) a female in DIHL usually works. It is like you are making a transition from one hypnotic state to

another.

Another thing I did once was actually told someone that I had a premonition that I would meet

them. It helped her make sense of the DIHL and made her think that her DIHL was a somewhat of a minor premonition.

Once you have the spirtual connectedness thing going, you are in.

With DIHLs I like to make a move

immediately or not at all. In other words, don\'t give them much time to think and try and rationalize themselves

out of the moment.

[Sagacious1420]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
I know this isn\'t the best

suggestion for everyone, and the circumstances also play a role, but seranating (spl?) a female in DIHL usually

works. It is like you are making a transition from one hypnotic state to another.

<hr /></blockquote><font

class=\"post\">So I take it you get DIHL reactions a lot then. I don\'t think the more commonplace, brief

awestruck variety are that much help. Circumstances sure seem to play a role. Especially when it happens to someone

several ppl in front of you in a check out line, for example. They usually snap out of it before I would have a

chance to make an approach. I don\'t know if serenading would work in a loud club w/ a band or trance [no pun

intended] music playing in the background. Although, certain types of music could enhance the state, I suppose, e.g.

trance music. I can only recall one really intense DIOS that lasted a really long time, where interaction or

attempts at suggestion seemed to be totally ineffective.

</font><blockquote><font

class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Another thing I did once was actually told someone that I had a premonition

that I would meet them. It helped her make sense of the DIHL and made her think that her DIHL was a somewhat of a

minor premonition. Once you have the spirtual connectedness thing going, you are in.

<hr /></blockquote><font

class=\"post\">That might work if you could actually make it come off beleivable, instead of sounding like some

cheesy pick up line.

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
With DIHLs I like to make a

move immediately or not at all. In other words, don\'t give them much time to think and try and rationalize

themselves out of the moment.

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">Timing must certainly be important. If

thinking to themselves or rationalization does occur, I would suspect that the state isn\'t very deep and would

therefore be very brief.

I dunno. [shrug]

[belgareth]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font

class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr

/>
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
I have seen some debate over whether a DIHL was

just sensory overload or whether a feeling of attraction is also involved.

<hr /></blockquote><font

class=\"post\">I think it\'s a bit of both.

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

Your probably

right.

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">I just wonder how much one hinders the other. That is, if

the trance state is deep enough, does the degree of attraction really matter in the end. Then again, maybe I\'m

just no good at effective \"hypnotic suggeston\". One thing\'s for sure, if I encountered that type of reaction

more often, then it probably wouldn\'t freak me out so much. I could actually take more action instead of just

standing there WTFing, ya know. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

On the other hand, I recently

read an old post where FTR described a pretty intense DIHL experience that she had. It would seem that one is

capable of acting on \"autopilot\" even in the midst of such a state. Then again, she was in the comfortable

surroundings of her home and not hanging out in a public place. Could it be that a simple \"Let\'s get outta

here\" would actually work in that situation? It sounds so incredibly simple that it might actually work.

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

I haven\'t

thought it through that far or had the opportunity to test it well. It seems to me that we still have not completely

defined a DIHL/DIOS and various people are using different definitions. Moderate amounts of alcohol does seem to

increase the susceptibility to them though. The few I have seen left me with the impression that the person faded

back into reality over a period of several minutes, more slowly if they had been drinking. Being a little slow on

the uptake, I didn\'t react quickly enough to plant suggestions and am waiting for another opportunity to try

that. Something benign like \"It sure is loud here, maybe we should find a quieter spot...\" Assuming you already

have some level of attraction going, it shouldn\'t go so strongly against their will that they reject the

suggestion. Trying to implant a suggestion that goes completely against what they would normally do is probably

going to be rejected immediately.

This is of course all theory and none of it has been proven.

[Friendly1]

I decided to try the power of suggestion tonight while helping with a dance class. This cute girl came

around in the rotation and she kept looking down at her feet (this is a beginners\' class). I kept saying,

\"Don\'t look down. Don\'t look down.\" Didn\'t work.

So, one time when she came around I said, \"Look

at me,\" and she did. Then I said, \"Now look at my eyes.\" And she did. \"Now, just keep looking in my eyes

because you think I am the cutest guy in the world.\" She laughed nervously and turned red but she kept

looking.

This was not a DIHL moment, but she was concentrating so intently on her feet that she was open to

suggestion. The blushing told me she really did think I was cute. Being dressed well, wearing some pheromones, and

having the guts to say something like that in front of 20 people probably did make me the cutest guy in the world

for her for a few minutes.

[belgareth]

Suggestion is amazing. Something as dumb as yawning can get a whole room doing the same. Asking

somebody if they itch can make them scratch. That\'s in a normal state, in an altered state the possibilities are

endless.

[bjf]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
So I take it you get DIHL reactions

a lot then. I don\'t think the more commonplace, brief awestruck variety are that much help. Circumstances sure

seem to play a role. Especially when it happens to someone several ppl in front of you in a check out line, for

example. They usually snap out of it before I would have a chance to make an approach. I don\'t know if serenading

would work in a loud club w/ a band or trance [no pun intended] music playing in the background. Although, certain

types of music could enhance the state, I suppose, e.g. trance music. I can only recall one really intense DIOS that

lasted a really long time, where interaction or attempts at suggestion seemed to be totally ineffective.

<hr

/></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

I\'ve had DIHLs which would have to be classified as DIOS I guess

(states lasting 30 seconds to a minute where the person is an absolute zombie), but most of the time I get caught

off guard looks or intense stares (5-15 sec at a time) with the person having blocked out everything in the world

except me and also tracking me as I move if I am walking.

If you have on slighty too many pheros, they will

not respond to a smile you throw at them, and the hits are less \"hey sexy\" to more like \"holy sh-t\". I

equate this to situations where women have smiled at me but I was thinking about something in my head and didn\'t

smile back, even though I was semi-aware of it and was indeed attracted to them. After I\'ve snapped out of it, I

kicked myself for being seemingly rude, even though that wasn\'t meant to be the case.

I figure that

someone in a DIHL and unable to respond is a space cadet, and although will hear or see stimuli, are too much in

their own trace to respond at that moment.

Grabbing their hand and going down on one knee and singing is

effective with a DIHL for obvious reason. However, this is not for everyone and can be very

impractical.

Truthfully, I think most people\'s dilemma\'s with DIHLs are not in bar/club environments,

because you can always give it the old college try there, but more when the two of you are strangers in passing.

Everything happens so damn quickly it is hard to take advantage of the situation.

All I can say is that if

the man or women meets your fancy, and is really worth it, then you have to take a chance despite the less than

ideal circumstances. I learned the hard way (pre-mones) that you have to act on the moment, or you must be okay

with never getting another chance with that person for the rest of your life. If the latter is not okay with you,

then hinderences of DIHLs or not, one must persist. There is always a successful path in any situation if you are

determined.

[Sagacious1420]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
I\'ve had DIHLs which would have to

be classified as DIOS I guess (states lasting 30 seconds to a minute where the person is an absolute zombie), but

most of the time I get caught off guard looks or intense stares (5-15 sec at a time) with the person having blocked

out everything in the world except me and also tracking me as I move if I am walking.

<hr /></blockquote><font

class=\"post\">As I believe I\'ve stated before, I think in terms of intensity/duration when considering the

difference between a DIHL and a DIOS. I wonder if it wouldn\'t be more appropriate to think in terms of magnitude,

say on a scale of 1-5 or something. In my experiences, what I would classify as a DIOS is where the person remains

in a deeper trance state for at least 5-10 minutes (DIHL 3-4)or longer in some cases (DIHL 5). Most DIHLs are

pretty brief (5-30 seconds maybe - DIHL 1), while a few have been a minute (DIHL 2) or more (DIHL 3). It seems that

the most intense and long lasting this state is, the less responsive they are to even just a quick smile. The more

commonplace DIHLs which last just a few seconds are those in which the person is aware enough to smile back or

respond in some way, otherwise their attention is more deeply inward.

</font><blockquote><font

class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
If you have on slighty too many pheros, they will not respond to a smile you

throw at them, and the hits are less \"hey sexy\" to more like \"holy sh-t\".

<hr /></blockquote><font

class=\"post\"> Sometimes the person is so stunned that I can imagine them thinking \"holy sh-t\" to themselves,

but I\'ve gotten this type of reaction w/ lesser dosages too. At higher doses, I will get that \"holy sh-t\"

response from men as well and these are guys I know to be hetero, so I don\'t think that this mental state has to

necessarily be connected to a feeling of attraction. They seem to show the same signs of a DIHL... the dilated

pupils, the slack jaw and a few seconds of being \"frozen in time\". The strange thing is that some guys will

react this way while others won\'t, so it makes me wonder if their is something about the individual that plays a

role. There\'s one guy in particular that comes to mind; I run into him often at my local hangout. I\'ll stop

and say hello, get this type of reaction, then move on to chat w/ other friends and nothing even close to this from

them. That is I may get a brief wide eyed reaction, but they are completely coherent. This makes me wonder if their

is something about the individual that is a key element to their degree of susceptibility, just as there are those

who seem impervious to hypnosis.

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
I figure that

someone in a DIHL and unable to respond is a space cadet, and although will hear or see stimuli, are too much in

their own trace to respond at that moment.

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">I could see how you might

think so and I\'ve wondered about this myself. I do know of a particular girl who has entered into something more

along the lines of a DIOS (a good 5-15 minute space out) on a few different occasions. I\'ve chatted w/ her quite

a few times and she\'s pretty sharp...not someone I would generally consider a space cadet and she doesn\'t

drink, so in her case alcohol consumption isn\'t a factor.

[bjf]

Sag , will get to more of your post later, but just to clarify because I was definitely unclear, when

I said 5-15 sec for DIHL, 30 for DIOS, I was speaking in reference to first-time eye-to-eye contact with strangers

(I look at reactions in these moments the most because its how I gauge whether a mix is effective on a widespread

basis). Now in America at least, strangers tend to look away a lot of tbe time when they make eye contact. After a

couple of seconds it is uusally thought of as freaky or hostile by society, which is why people say \"don\'t

stare\", \"stop staring\" etc.

Anywy, the length of time someone will look at you is usually effected by

whether you are looking right back at them due to social rules of donduct. In both DIHL and DIOS cases, they are

out of it so the social rules get discarded, but DIHL I think they come to quicker. Now imagine someone you have

never talked to and have just seen for the first time staring expressionless at you for half a minute despite your

having returned eye contact and/or a smile.

This is truly freaky and uncomfortable! Freaky and uncomfortable is

what I think of when I think of for DIOS.

I can see you probably look at DIHL and DIOS more as what a person is

experiencing when in your presense (ie not limited to the first time you cross their path). Obviously you have had

some experiences where none of that shock or suprise wore off, and the woman never really came to. The one really

lengthy DIOS experience you have spoken of is truly nuts. It\'s like she was under hypnosis that whole time.

Talk about casting a spell!

[Sagacious1420]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Sag , will get to more of your post

later, but just to clarify because I was definitely unclear, when I said 5-15 sec for DIHL, 30 for DIOS, I was

speaking in reference to first-time eye-to-eye contact with strangers (I look at reactions in these moments the most

because its how I gauge whether a mix is effective on a widespread basis). Now in America at least, strangers tend

to look away a lot of tbe time when they make eye contact. After a couple of seconds it is uusally thought of as

freaky or hostile by society, which is why people say \"don\'t stare\", \"stop staring\" etc.

<hr

/></blockquote><font class=\"post\">That makes sense. I\'ve found that as I\'ve adjusted mixes I seem to get

excellent responses, but fewer of the DIHL type experiences and as I\'ve mentioned those lengthy DIOS/zombie

reactions are (thankfully) rare.

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Anywy, the

length of time someone will look at you is usually effected by whether you are looking right back at them due to

social rules of donduct. In both DIHL and DIOS cases, they are out of it so the social rules get discarded, but

DIHL I think they come to quicker. Now imagine someone you have never talked to and have just seen for the first

time staring expressionless at you for half a minute despite your having returned eye contact and/or a smile.

<hr

/></blockquote><font class=\"post\">Agreed that the DIHLs come w/ a faster recovery. I suppose I have experienced

a brief stare where the person is more \"spaced out\".

</font><blockquote><font

class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
This is truly freaky and uncomfortable! Freaky and uncomfortable is what I

think of when I think of for DIOS.

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">Freaky for sure, uncomfortable

sometimes. I guess that I\'ve seen the brief DIHL thing often enough that its not really disconcerting

anymore.

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
I can see you probably look at DIHL

and DIOS more as what a person is experiencing when in your presense (ie not limited to the first time you cross

their path). Obviously you have had some experiences where none of that shock or suprise wore off, and the woman

never really came to. The one really lengthy DIOS experience you have spoken of is truly nuts. It\'s like she

was under hypnosis that whole time. Talk about casting a spell!

<hr /></blockquote><font

class=\"post\">Yeah, that experience w/ Cami was truly freaky. It was like she was under a spell. Again, I

should point out that this was at a club, so I\'m certain that alcohol consumption played a rather significant

role. It wasn\'t totally limited to Cami though. She had 2 friends sitting next to her and they were both

experiencing a pretty intense DIOS. They were sitting facing me in the same orientation and posture, Cami was

facing me too but at a straighter angle because the primary interaction (if you can call it that) was between us.

The strange thing was the continual prolonged gazing at me, smiling coyly, bowing of the head only to repeat the

cycle. Cami attempted to speak occasionally, but mostly her lips just moved and nothing very audible came out. I

really couldn\'t tell if what she was trying to say had anything to do w/ what I had said to her. Even more

freaky was that they all followed this cycle in unison. I don\'t know if it was because she was closest to me or

that I was focusing my attention on her, but she seemed to be the most effected and remained extremely dazed, even

on her way out the door.

I can\'t blame it all on alcohol though, because I\'ve seen prolonged space outs

w/ a girl who doesn\'t drink...wasn\'t just one isolated incident w/ her.

[bjf]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Even more freaky was that they all

followed this cycle in unison. I don\'t know if it was because she was closest to me or that I was focusing my

attention on her, but she seemed to be the most effected and remained extremely dazed, even on her way out the door.



<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

In my most significant DIHL experience, what I would have to be a

DIOS, a girl sitting at a bar turned around and was staring at me a few feet away as I tried to get a drink from the

bartender. This lasted forever, I smiled, no response, she was not even moving this whole time I looked behind m,

didn\'t see anything, turn all around, nothing, look back, she is still sitting absolutely still, staring at me

intensely. The thing is, then her friend started to do it too.


Anyway, I am sure you have noticed that

girlfriends tend to react more frequently then stranger x and stranger y (both being female).

I used to think

that what brought them together as friends probably also manifests itself when it comes to phromone conditioning,

etc, picking up or prefering similar signatures.

Then I realized, well, if their cops align their cycles, then

they are probably ovulating at the same time. This explains a situation such as yours, where the other two gals

were extremely affected by your lethal mix of synthetic and natural pheromone which was interacting with the

particular bacteria and skin metabolites you had that day to diffuse powerful mone levels.

[Sagacious1420]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
In my most significant DIHL experience,

what I would have to be a DIOS, a girl sitting at a bar turned around and was staring at me a few feet away as I

tried to get a drink from the bartender. This lasted forever, I smiled, no response, she was not even moving this

whole time I looked behind m, didn\'t see anything, turn all around, nothing, look back, she is still sitting

absolutely still, staring at me intensely.

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">That sounds just like my

experience w/ the non-drinker. Happened 3 or 4 consecutive times. I guess that after a while she acclimated to it.

Maybe a couple of weeks after the last DIHL incident I had a chance to chat w/ her and have a few times since. She

still gets wide eyed w/ dilated pupils, but no more stupors.

</font><blockquote><font

class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Anyway, I am sure you have noticed that girlfriends tend to react more

frequently then stranger x and stranger y (both being female).

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">Makes

sense.

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
I used to think that what brought them

together as friends probably also manifests itself when it comes to phromone conditioning, etc, picking up or

prefering similar signatures.

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">Interesting...I can see your point. But

what about the role of early conditioning like such as JVK has mentioned. They could have very diverse preferences

as well, sometimes.

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Then I realized, well, if

their cops align their cycles, then they are probably ovulating at the same time.

<hr /></blockquote><font

class=\"post\">Quite possible in that particular incident, assuming they spend a significant amount of time

together.

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
...the other two gals were extremely

affected by your lethal mix of synthetic and natural pheromone which was interacting with the particular bacteria

and skin metabolites you had that day to diffuse powerful mone levels.

<hr /></blockquote><font

class=\"post\">LOL! Who would have thought that only 3 drops of AE/m could cause such a thing. In fact, most of

those freaky DIOS things happened w/ just AE/m, maybe AE/m+SOE. With the nondrinker there were also a couple of

dabs of NPA/m involved as well. Actually, now that I think about it, I don\'t recall having one since I started

using WAGG. Hmmmmmm...that\'s also about the time that the nondrinker stopped showing any intense reactions.

Could be coincidence, I suppose. Perhaps I should leave WAGG out of the mix for a while and see what happens.

Hmmmmm....

[DiscoverIt]

I just read that copulins site. It says that after the copulins are abosrbed into the gonads and

absorbed into the brain, during this time, the female can vocally do the following:
A) Change, remove, or insert

memories.
B) Tell the male what he sees, hears, feels, smells, tastes.
C) Insert subconscious thoughts that will

surface as male \"ideas\" or behavior later.

If that\'s true, all men would be slaves to women today or

something. Someone venture to try and report? hehe

[belgareth]

Sounds like a large load of BS to me.

[Friendly1]

Well, most happily married men will generally do what their wives ask them to do. Most happily married

wives don\'t make unreasonable demands on their husbands. The empirical evidence is ambiguous.

On the other

hand, an old \"Flintstones\" episode did show Wilma whispering commands into Fred\'s ear while he slept....

[Gossamer_2701]

Wasn\'t that on an episode of \'Behind the Music\' on VH1?

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[burgerama1960]

Usually when I am around a good smellin women, whether it be natural smell or a good perfume, all I

want to do is go down on her and give her the best orgasm she has ever had. But then reality hits and I realize that

I would get slapped more times than not for suggesting it.

[Elana]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Usually when I am around a good smellin

women, whether it be natural smell or a good perfume, all I want to do is go down on her and give her the best

orgasm she has ever had. But then reality hits and I realize that I would get slapped more times than not for

suggesting it.

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

Ohhhhhhh come smell me. I am wearing my Angel,

and some vanilla lace. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

[burgerama1960]

now that is what I\'m talking about!!! Yummy!!!!!!

[OCP]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Usually when I am around a good smellin

women, whether it be natural smell or a good perfume, all I want to do is go down on her and give her the best

orgasm she has ever had. But then reality hits and I realize that I would get slapped more times than not for

suggesting it.

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

I know exactly what you mean. Goin\' down on a

great smelling woman is ectasy! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif