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View Full Version : Great link on attractiveness...



bundyburger
01-15-2004, 04:16 AM
Forgive me if someone has already posted

this...

http://www.eddyelmer.com/diary/diarystart.html?http://www.eddyelmer.com/diary/2003_Oct_31_diary.htm (\"http://www.eddyelmer.com/diary/diarystart.html?http://www.eddyelmer.com/diary/2003_Oct_31_diary.h

tm\")

T

here\'s a lot of stuff that\'s been discussed here in the past, but this would be good for any newbies to look

over.

adepss
01-15-2004, 05:02 AM
Yeah!

thats a great link1 thanx for that...it seems that what one thinks of oneself can influence anothers perception of

/him /her...nothing new but its good to see that theory reinforced...and everything else in between that one can

work on to improve their attractiveness quotient...good post!

bundyburger
01-15-2004, 05:11 AM
It\'s also great to see an article with all that information pulled together as one.

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Elana
01-15-2004, 05:18 AM
Bundy...that\'s why I let you hang with me. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

bundyburger
01-15-2004, 05:27 AM
shhhhh... Just \'coz they measured you for the data doesn\'t mean you can get all high and mighty about it.

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif

Holmes
01-15-2004, 07:53 AM
Excellent link, Bundy. All true.

And they say looks don\'t matter. Right.

</font><blockquote><font

class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
This is particularly disturbing because the term \"privilege\" implies that

a person has somehow \"earned\" or done something to deserve the privilege. The reality, however, is that physical

attractiveness is something we are born with—not something that we somehow worked hard to achieve (despite

what people with a penchant for plastic surgery will claim).

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

Very

good point.


Holmes

franki
01-15-2004, 08:42 AM
Is

this the thread of the good-looking people? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif Then I have to get in

here as well. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Holmes
01-15-2004, 09:51 AM
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Get her in here, too!

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


Holmes

xvs
01-15-2004, 11:06 AM
This guy

appears to have some psychological problems:

He goes on about:
</font><blockquote><font

class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Because I am not generally physically attractive, other people exaggerate my

negative qualities or focus excessively on them. The same negative qualities present in better-looking people are

minimised, ignored, or even seen as positive (eg, \"Of course he\'s talkative. It\'s part of his charm. It

makes him even cuter.\").

In comparison to my more attractive counterparts, I am sometimes seen as an inferior

(or even \"bad\") person. On some unconscious, primal level, we really do believe that attractive is good.

If

I were more physically attractive, my negative traits would be more frequently overlooked, my positive ones would be

exaggerated—if not celebrated—and I would meet more people willing to be my friend (if not my sexual/romantic

partner).


<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

Yet from his picture at

http://www.eddyelmer.com/pagestar

t.html?http://www.eddyelmer.com/cv.htm (\"http://www.eddyelmer.com/pagestart.html?http://www.eddyelmer.com/cv.htm\") he looks perfectly attractive to me.

Yep, the answer is clear: he

must be pheromonally impaired. Tell him to get over here!

Holmes
01-15-2004, 11:09 AM
Seriously. What\'s his problem?

The guy thinks too much.


Holmes

bjf
01-15-2004, 11:13 AM
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Seriously. What\'s his problem?

<hr

/></blockquote><font class=\"post\">


Look at his resume:

Research Interests
Loneliness, social

isolation, and insularity: their development, cognitive components, and individual and social implications



Isolation and loneliness in special populations (e.g., prison inmates, mental facility inpatients, war veterans,

emergency services personnel)

Relationship between loneliness, isolation, and psychosis

Personality

development and counselling psychology, with strong interest in human potential movement, personal growth and

development, self actualisation, humanistic psychology, the person-centred nondirective approach, Carl Rogers,

Gestalt psychology

Mental health and personal development of gifted individuals (e.g., writers, artists, actors,

musicians, highly intelligent individuals)

Postmodernism and deconstruction in psychology

Public

attitudes towards mental health

Literature and psychology

Developments in general psychology

Pancho1188
01-15-2004, 12:21 PM
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Seriously. What\'s his problem?

The guy thinks

too much.


Holmes

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

This may sound insane, but I just looked at

his picture and \"knew\" he was someone who was probably a dork in school and was probably lonely for a while.

Maybe it takes one to know one, but yes, that guy definitely has had issues.

Then I looked at that last

post...looks like I was right.


Pancho

CptKipling
01-15-2004, 12:43 PM
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
If others find a particular person to be physically

attractive, then we may also come to find them attractive, even if we would not normally find that person physically

attractive. In other words, we are physically attracted to those who are \"in demand\".

<hr

/></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

There\'s your social proof.

</font><blockquote><font

class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Furthermore, in light of the list above, it should be noted that it is quite

short-sighted to say that we could never come to find a particular person in our lives (e.g., a friend) physically

attractive.

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

That sounds like wishfull thinking.

Pancho1188
01-15-2004, 01:46 PM
Wow, after reading this I have a lot to say about it...

Before I criticize this reading, I would like to say

that most of it is pretty accurate. However, I believe that there are a few problems that I would like to clarify

to people:

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Physically attractive people seem also

to be more more satisfied with their lives and consider themselves happier than do their less attractive

counterparts (most likely because physical attractiveness gives them the kinds of benefits that lead to social and

vocational success). On measures of affect and mood, physically attractive people score higher than less physically

attractive people. See Umberson and Hughes, 1987.

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

This is a

fallacy. Kari, DST, Elana, or others in the fields of Psychology/Sociology please back me up, but from what I\'ve

studied physically attractive people are NO HAPPIER than unattractive people. Yes, they are PERCEIVED to be

happier, more successful, and better people (as he drills home constantly through the article), but attractive

people are just as likely to be lonely, sad, or depressed as any other human being. Every class I have ever taken

has told me that attractiveness has no relationship to happiness, depression, loneliness, etc. Someone please

verify this.

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Physically attractive people are

more relaxed and socially adept, and less socially anxious and lonely than less physically attractive people (eg,

Feingold, 1992; Goldman and Lewis, 1977).

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

Yes and no. First of

all, to generalize like this is erroneous. Many attractive people are anxious because they feel like they have to

live up to a \"standard\" and are the slaves of what people expect/think of them. Yes, many are more socially

adept because: a. they get more experience b. they are treated as such (self-fulfilling prophecy) and c. they are

CONFIDENT in themselves. HOWEVER, as I mentioned in the previous section, there has been no conclusive evidence

that there is a strong correlation between loneliness and attractiveness in any manner.

</font><blockquote><font

class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />


Furthermore, in light of the list above, it should be noted that it is quite short-sighted to say that we could

never come to find a particular person in our lives (e.g., a friend) physically attractive.

<hr

/></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

That sounds like wishfull thinking.

<hr /></blockquote><font

class=\"post\">

I don\'t like this at all. A lot of people would say that men\'s female friends are

\"failed hookup attempts\" aka women they wanted to sleep with but couldn\'t get past the \"friends\" barrier.

Therefore, one could say that a lot of guys DO find their female friends physically

attractive.

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />

Universally-preferred physical

features

muscular buttocks (indicative of sexual thrusting power);

<hr /></blockquote><font

class=\"post\">

I\'m sorry, that\'s just too funny to read.

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr

/>
In both sexes (although much more for men than women): features typically associated with a baby\'s face.

There is, in other words, a preference for \"cuteness\", including: large, closely spaced eyes, a small, slightly

upturned (or \"button\") nose; and a soft, rounded chin. These baby-like features signal nurturance and

non-dominance, traits which men appear to find very attractive. Women find these traits attractive too (because

nurturance is a positive quality in a mate eg, Cunningham, 1986; Keating, 1985); however, they have a more

significant preference for facial features which signal maturity, strength, and dominance (Sadalla et al.,

1987).

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

Remember this argument from my evolutionary psychology

post??? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

</font><blockquote><font

class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
In both sexes: Unattractive facial features are often offset by attractive

physiques.

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

My old college roommate once said, \"You\'re not

screwing the face, you\'re screwing the body...\"

My response was, \"Yeah, but a lot of times you\'re

looking at the face while you\'re doing it...\"

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr

/>
In both sexes: a person who is similar to us in physical attractiveness.

<hr /></blockquote><font

class=\"post\">

Ahh, the Matching Hypothesis...

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr

/>

We find people who are familiar to us to be more physically attractive than those who are not familiar to us

(Zajonc, 1970). Familiar people seem \"safe\" and we can\'t help but develop some degree of physical attraction

towards such people (it is, in an evolutionary sense, highly adaptive to form relationships with people with whom we

feel safe, as opposed to people with whom we feel anxious, apprehensive, or in danger).

<hr /></blockquote><font

class=\"post\">

And thus, WAGG is understood.

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr

/>
Amazingly, a person who thinks s/he is a catch (because of either physical or non-physical features) can

actually become physically attractive to others!

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

This is not

amazing. It\'s called CONFIDENCE...



In conclusion: Yes, physically attractive people are treated better.

So what? What are you going to do about it? Are you going to devote your life to studying why like this guy is, or

are you going to do something about it by accepting yourself for who you are, be confident in yourself, and live

your life the way YOU want to without worrying about stuff like this? If you\'re a little unsure of yourself, hit

the gym, buy some outfits you know you look good in, fix yourself up, buy some pheromones for the \"edge\", and

get the hell out there and be confident, dammit!!! No one can stop you if you believe in yourself...




Pancho

Holmes
01-15-2004, 02:25 PM
Great

post all the way around, Pancho. After a second (careful) reading of this guy\'s \"findings,\" I definitely see

the holes in his arguments. (Blame the...uh...Wormwood for my intitial oversights. That or the fact that my

girlfriend recently fled to a foreign company...

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif).

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr

/>
This is a fallacy. Kari, DST, Elana, or others in the fields of Psychology/Sociology please back me up, but from

what I\'ve studied physically attractive people are NO HAPPIER than unattractive people. Yes, they are PERCEIVED

to be happier, more successful, and better people (as he drills home constantly through the article), but attractive

people are just as likely to be lonely, sad, or depressed as any other human being. Every class I have ever taken

has told me that attractiveness has no relationship to happiness, depression, loneliness, etc. Someone please verify

this.

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

I\'d have to go along with that. Since drop-dead

\"attractiveness\" is something we\'d all like to have (because we think it will bring us more happiness), we

naturally assume that those who have it must be happy. After all, they have what we want!

That said,

my heart bleeds for poor Angelina Jolie...

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />


If you\'re a little unsure of yourself, hit the gym, buy some outfits you know you look good in, fix yourself up,

buy some pheromones for the \"edge\", and get the hell out there and be confident, dammit!!! No one can stop you

if you believe in yourself...

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

That\'s it.


Holmes

CptKipling
01-15-2004, 02:30 PM
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />

</font><blockquote><font

class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Furthermore,

in light of the list above, it should be noted that it is quite short-sighted to say that we could never come to

find a particular person in our lives (e.g., a friend) physically attractive.

<hr /></blockquote><font

class=\"post\">

That sounds like wishfull thinking.

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

I

don\'t like this at all. A lot of people would say that men\'s female friends are \"failed hookup attempts\"

aka women they wanted to sleep with but couldn\'t get past the \"friends\" barrier. Therefore, one could say

that a lot of guys DO find their female friends physically attractive.

Pancho

<hr /></blockquote><font

class=\"post\">

I should have clarified.

For men what he said is true a lot of the time, the only reason the

friendship exists is to keep the possibility of a shag alive. I\'ve a few a my female friends this, only a couple

saw the irony /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

But for women, although the possibility is still

their in some cases, it is said that once you are in the friend zone, you are stuck there.

Elana
01-15-2004, 02:31 PM
Pancho...your post is way too long for me to read through the whole thing but I get the message. It\'s all about

self esteem and self confidence. People with those traits do lead better lives. They may be drop dead gorgeous or

butt ugly. If they are confident people they will live better lives than insecure people. My guess is, it is easier

for an attractive person to have confidence than an ugly person.

Elana
01-15-2004, 02:41 PM
Sorry

Pancho..I should have just read your post. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif
I just looked through

it and see you said the whole thing was about confidence. I agree.

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Pancho1188
01-15-2004, 03:19 PM
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font

class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr

/>
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Furthermore, in light of the list above, it

should be noted that it is quite short-sighted to say that we could never come to find a particular person in our

lives (e.g., a friend) physically attractive.

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

That sounds like

wishfull thinking.

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

I don\'t like this at all. A lot of people

would say that men\'s female friends are \"failed hookup attempts\" aka women they wanted to sleep with but

couldn\'t get past the \"friends\" barrier. Therefore, one could say that a lot of guys DO find their female

friends physically attractive.

Pancho

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

I should have

clarified.

For men what he said is true a lot of the time, the only reason the friendship exists is to keep the

possibility of a shag alive. I\'ve a few a my female friends this, only a couple saw the irony

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

But for women, although the possibility is still their in some

cases, it is said that once you are in the friend zone, you are stuck there.

<hr /></blockquote><font

class=\"post\">

Sorry, Cap\'n. I wasn\'t criticizing you, I was criticizing what you were quoting in the

article. I didn\'t like what he said. I should\'ve gotten rid of your comment in the quote because I wasn\'t

referring to your comment at all. Sorry about that.

CptKipling
01-15-2004, 03:49 PM
Having just read what you said again, I realised that when I replied I more or less said exactly the same thing

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif



/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Holmes
01-15-2004, 03:54 PM
Repetition is the mother of skill.


Holmes

Pancho1188
01-15-2004, 04:06 PM
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Repetition is the mother of skill.


Holmes



<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

And Holmes is the father of coolness, although I have no idea what

he\'s saying in that radio advertisement...

bundyburger
01-15-2004, 04:14 PM
Repetition is the mother of skill.


Bundy

bundyburger
01-15-2004, 04:28 PM
Sorry, just gotten up /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

I\'ve had very attractive girls

be \"in\" to me occasionly in instances where I fobbed them off (gently) because they came across as too

needy,unconfident or similar. All of a sudden this cute girl will be \'uninteresting\'. Goes to show. And even

for myself, I\'ve approached girls who seemed very keen only to be turned off of me the moment I become a bumbling

mess, when I introduce myself all tongue tied. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

I\'ve

said before (and others), an average looking woman walking with confidence and a air of fun about her is attractive

and sexy.

There a a LOT of attractive people in the world. They still have to compete against other people

and they still can get down because they lose a guy/girl/job/event to another. They can still have bad upbringings

and they can still have chemical inbalances in their bodies.

There is always the hot girl who is a great

person, but is bitched about behind her back by even her so called best friends.