View Full Version : Great link on attractiveness...
bundyburger
01-15-2004, 04:16 AM
Forgive me if someone has already posted
this...
http://www.eddyelmer.com/diary/diarystart.html?http://www.eddyelmer.com/diary/2003_Oct_31_diary.htm (\"http://www.eddyelmer.com/diary/diarystart.html?http://www.eddyelmer.com/diary/2003_Oct_31_diary.h
tm\")
T
here\'s a lot of stuff that\'s been discussed here in the past, but this would be good for any newbies to look
over.
adepss
01-15-2004, 05:02 AM
Yeah!
thats a great link1 thanx for that...it seems that what one thinks of oneself can influence anothers perception of
/him /her...nothing new but its good to see that theory reinforced...and everything else in between that one can
work on to improve their attractiveness quotient...good post!
bundyburger
01-15-2004, 05:11 AM
It\'s also great to see an article with all that information pulled together as one.
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif
Elana
01-15-2004, 05:18 AM
Bundy...that\'s why I let you hang with me. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
bundyburger
01-15-2004, 05:27 AM
shhhhh... Just \'coz they measured you for the data doesn\'t mean you can get all high and mighty about it.
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif
Holmes
01-15-2004, 07:53 AM
Excellent link, Bundy. All true.
And they say looks don\'t matter. Right.
</font><blockquote><font
class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
This is particularly disturbing because the term \"privilege\" implies that
a person has somehow \"earned\" or done something to deserve the privilege. The reality, however, is that physical
attractiveness is something we are born with—not something that we somehow worked hard to achieve (despite
what people with a penchant for plastic surgery will claim).
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
Very
good point.
Holmes
franki
01-15-2004, 08:42 AM
Is
this the thread of the good-looking people? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif Then I have to get in
here as well. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Holmes
01-15-2004, 09:51 AM
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Get her in here, too!
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Holmes
This guy
appears to have some psychological problems:
He goes on about:
</font><blockquote><font
class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Because I am not generally physically attractive, other people exaggerate my
negative qualities or focus excessively on them. The same negative qualities present in better-looking people are
minimised, ignored, or even seen as positive (eg, \"Of course he\'s talkative. It\'s part of his charm. It
makes him even cuter.\").
In comparison to my more attractive counterparts, I am sometimes seen as an inferior
(or even \"bad\") person. On some unconscious, primal level, we really do believe that attractive is good.
If
I were more physically attractive, my negative traits would be more frequently overlooked, my positive ones would be
exaggerated—if not celebrated—and I would meet more people willing to be my friend (if not my sexual/romantic
partner).
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
Yet from his picture at
http://www.eddyelmer.com/pagestar
t.html?http://www.eddyelmer.com/cv.htm (\"http://www.eddyelmer.com/pagestart.html?http://www.eddyelmer.com/cv.htm\") he looks perfectly attractive to me.
Yep, the answer is clear: he
must be pheromonally impaired. Tell him to get over here!
Holmes
01-15-2004, 11:09 AM
Seriously. What\'s his problem?
The guy thinks too much.
Holmes
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Seriously. What\'s his problem?
<hr
/></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
Look at his resume:
Research Interests
Loneliness, social
isolation, and insularity: their development, cognitive components, and individual and social implications
Isolation and loneliness in special populations (e.g., prison inmates, mental facility inpatients, war veterans,
emergency services personnel)
Relationship between loneliness, isolation, and psychosis
Personality
development and counselling psychology, with strong interest in human potential movement, personal growth and
development, self actualisation, humanistic psychology, the person-centred nondirective approach, Carl Rogers,
Gestalt psychology
Mental health and personal development of gifted individuals (e.g., writers, artists, actors,
musicians, highly intelligent individuals)
Postmodernism and deconstruction in psychology
Public
attitudes towards mental health
Literature and psychology
Developments in general psychology
Pancho1188
01-15-2004, 12:21 PM
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Seriously. What\'s his problem?
The guy thinks
too much.
Holmes
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
This may sound insane, but I just looked at
his picture and \"knew\" he was someone who was probably a dork in school and was probably lonely for a while.
Maybe it takes one to know one, but yes, that guy definitely has had issues.
Then I looked at that last
post...looks like I was right.
Pancho
CptKipling
01-15-2004, 12:43 PM
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
If others find a particular person to be physically
attractive, then we may also come to find them attractive, even if we would not normally find that person physically
attractive. In other words, we are physically attracted to those who are \"in demand\".
<hr
/></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
There\'s your social proof.
</font><blockquote><font
class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Furthermore, in light of the list above, it should be noted that it is quite
short-sighted to say that we could never come to find a particular person in our lives (e.g., a friend) physically
attractive.
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
That sounds like wishfull thinking.
Pancho1188
01-15-2004, 01:46 PM
Wow, after reading this I have a lot to say about it...
Before I criticize this reading, I would like to say
that most of it is pretty accurate. However, I believe that there are a few problems that I would like to clarify
to people:
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Physically attractive people seem also
to be more more satisfied with their lives and consider themselves happier than do their less attractive
counterparts (most likely because physical attractiveness gives them the kinds of benefits that lead to social and
vocational success). On measures of affect and mood, physically attractive people score higher than less physically
attractive people. See Umberson and Hughes, 1987.
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
This is a
fallacy. Kari, DST, Elana, or others in the fields of Psychology/Sociology please back me up, but from what I\'ve
studied physically attractive people are NO HAPPIER than unattractive people. Yes, they are PERCEIVED to be
happier, more successful, and better people (as he drills home constantly through the article), but attractive
people are just as likely to be lonely, sad, or depressed as any other human being. Every class I have ever taken
has told me that attractiveness has no relationship to happiness, depression, loneliness, etc. Someone please
verify this.
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Physically attractive people are
more relaxed and socially adept, and less socially anxious and lonely than less physically attractive people (eg,
Feingold, 1992; Goldman and Lewis, 1977).
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
Yes and no. First of
all, to generalize like this is erroneous. Many attractive people are anxious because they feel like they have to
live up to a \"standard\" and are the slaves of what people expect/think of them. Yes, many are more socially
adept because: a. they get more experience b. they are treated as such (self-fulfilling prophecy) and c. they are
CONFIDENT in themselves. HOWEVER, as I mentioned in the previous section, there has been no conclusive evidence
that there is a strong correlation between loneliness and attractiveness in any manner.
</font><blockquote><font
class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Furthermore, in light of the list above, it should be noted that it is quite short-sighted to say that we could
never come to find a particular person in our lives (e.g., a friend) physically attractive.
<hr
/></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
That sounds like wishfull thinking.
<hr /></blockquote><font
class=\"post\">
I don\'t like this at all. A lot of people would say that men\'s female friends are
\"failed hookup attempts\" aka women they wanted to sleep with but couldn\'t get past the \"friends\" barrier.
Therefore, one could say that a lot of guys DO find their female friends physically
attractive.
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Universally-preferred physical
features
muscular buttocks (indicative of sexual thrusting power);
<hr /></blockquote><font
class=\"post\">
I\'m sorry, that\'s just too funny to read.
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr
/>
In both sexes (although much more for men than women): features typically associated with a baby\'s face.
There is, in other words, a preference for \"cuteness\", including: large, closely spaced eyes, a small, slightly
upturned (or \"button\") nose; and a soft, rounded chin. These baby-like features signal nurturance and
non-dominance, traits which men appear to find very attractive. Women find these traits attractive too (because
nurturance is a positive quality in a mate eg, Cunningham, 1986; Keating, 1985); however, they have a more
significant preference for facial features which signal maturity, strength, and dominance (Sadalla et al.,
1987).
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
Remember this argument from my evolutionary psychology
post??? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif
</font><blockquote><font
class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
In both sexes: Unattractive facial features are often offset by attractive
physiques.
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
My old college roommate once said, \"You\'re not
screwing the face, you\'re screwing the body...\"
My response was, \"Yeah, but a lot of times you\'re
looking at the face while you\'re doing it...\"
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr
/>
In both sexes: a person who is similar to us in physical attractiveness.
<hr /></blockquote><font
class=\"post\">
Ahh, the Matching Hypothesis...
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr
/>
We find people who are familiar to us to be more physically attractive than those who are not familiar to us
(Zajonc, 1970). Familiar people seem \"safe\" and we can\'t help but develop some degree of physical attraction
towards such people (it is, in an evolutionary sense, highly adaptive to form relationships with people with whom we
feel safe, as opposed to people with whom we feel anxious, apprehensive, or in danger).
<hr /></blockquote><font
class=\"post\">
And thus, WAGG is understood.
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr
/>
Amazingly, a person who thinks s/he is a catch (because of either physical or non-physical features) can
actually become physically attractive to others!
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
This is not
amazing. It\'s called CONFIDENCE...
In conclusion: Yes, physically attractive people are treated better.
So what? What are you going to do about it? Are you going to devote your life to studying why like this guy is, or
are you going to do something about it by accepting yourself for who you are, be confident in yourself, and live
your life the way YOU want to without worrying about stuff like this? If you\'re a little unsure of yourself, hit
the gym, buy some outfits you know you look good in, fix yourself up, buy some pheromones for the \"edge\", and
get the hell out there and be confident, dammit!!! No one can stop you if you believe in yourself...
Pancho
Holmes
01-15-2004, 02:25 PM
Great
post all the way around, Pancho. After a second (careful) reading of this guy\'s \"findings,\" I definitely see
the holes in his arguments. (Blame the...uh...Wormwood for my intitial oversights. That or the fact that my
girlfriend recently fled to a foreign company...
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif).
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr
/>
This is a fallacy. Kari, DST, Elana, or others in the fields of Psychology/Sociology please back me up, but from
what I\'ve studied physically attractive people are NO HAPPIER than unattractive people. Yes, they are PERCEIVED
to be happier, more successful, and better people (as he drills home constantly through the article), but attractive
people are just as likely to be lonely, sad, or depressed as any other human being. Every class I have ever taken
has told me that attractiveness has no relationship to happiness, depression, loneliness, etc. Someone please verify
this.
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
I\'d have to go along with that. Since drop-dead
\"attractiveness\" is something we\'d all like to have (because we think it will bring us more happiness), we
naturally assume that those who have it must be happy. After all, they have what we want!
That said,
my heart bleeds for poor Angelina Jolie...
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
If you\'re a little unsure of yourself, hit the gym, buy some outfits you know you look good in, fix yourself up,
buy some pheromones for the \"edge\", and get the hell out there and be confident, dammit!!! No one can stop you
if you believe in yourself...
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
That\'s it.
Holmes
CptKipling
01-15-2004, 02:30 PM
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font
class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Furthermore,
in light of the list above, it should be noted that it is quite short-sighted to say that we could never come to
find a particular person in our lives (e.g., a friend) physically attractive.
<hr /></blockquote><font
class=\"post\">
That sounds like wishfull thinking.
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
I
don\'t like this at all. A lot of people would say that men\'s female friends are \"failed hookup attempts\"
aka women they wanted to sleep with but couldn\'t get past the \"friends\" barrier. Therefore, one could say
that a lot of guys DO find their female friends physically attractive.
Pancho
<hr /></blockquote><font
class=\"post\">
I should have clarified.
For men what he said is true a lot of the time, the only reason the
friendship exists is to keep the possibility of a shag alive. I\'ve a few a my female friends this, only a couple
saw the irony /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
But for women, although the possibility is still
their in some cases, it is said that once you are in the friend zone, you are stuck there.
Elana
01-15-2004, 02:31 PM
Pancho...your post is way too long for me to read through the whole thing but I get the message. It\'s all about
self esteem and self confidence. People with those traits do lead better lives. They may be drop dead gorgeous or
butt ugly. If they are confident people they will live better lives than insecure people. My guess is, it is easier
for an attractive person to have confidence than an ugly person.
Elana
01-15-2004, 02:41 PM
Sorry
Pancho..I should have just read your post. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif
I just looked through
it and see you said the whole thing was about confidence. I agree.
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
Pancho1188
01-15-2004, 03:19 PM
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font
class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr
/>
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Furthermore, in light of the list above, it
should be noted that it is quite short-sighted to say that we could never come to find a particular person in our
lives (e.g., a friend) physically attractive.
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
That sounds like
wishfull thinking.
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
I don\'t like this at all. A lot of people
would say that men\'s female friends are \"failed hookup attempts\" aka women they wanted to sleep with but
couldn\'t get past the \"friends\" barrier. Therefore, one could say that a lot of guys DO find their female
friends physically attractive.
Pancho
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
I should have
clarified.
For men what he said is true a lot of the time, the only reason the friendship exists is to keep the
possibility of a shag alive. I\'ve a few a my female friends this, only a couple saw the irony
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
But for women, although the possibility is still their in some
cases, it is said that once you are in the friend zone, you are stuck there.
<hr /></blockquote><font
class=\"post\">
Sorry, Cap\'n. I wasn\'t criticizing you, I was criticizing what you were quoting in the
article. I didn\'t like what he said. I should\'ve gotten rid of your comment in the quote because I wasn\'t
referring to your comment at all. Sorry about that.
CptKipling
01-15-2004, 03:49 PM
Having just read what you said again, I realised that when I replied I more or less said exactly the same thing
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Holmes
01-15-2004, 03:54 PM
Repetition is the mother of skill.
Holmes
Pancho1188
01-15-2004, 04:06 PM
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Repetition is the mother of skill.
Holmes
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
And Holmes is the father of coolness, although I have no idea what
he\'s saying in that radio advertisement...
bundyburger
01-15-2004, 04:14 PM
Repetition is the mother of skill.
Bundy
bundyburger
01-15-2004, 04:28 PM
Sorry, just gotten up /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
I\'ve had very attractive girls
be \"in\" to me occasionly in instances where I fobbed them off (gently) because they came across as too
needy,unconfident or similar. All of a sudden this cute girl will be \'uninteresting\'. Goes to show. And even
for myself, I\'ve approached girls who seemed very keen only to be turned off of me the moment I become a bumbling
mess, when I introduce myself all tongue tied. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
I\'ve
said before (and others), an average looking woman walking with confidence and a air of fun about her is attractive
and sexy.
There a a LOT of attractive people in the world. They still have to compete against other people
and they still can get down because they lose a guy/girl/job/event to another. They can still have bad upbringings
and they can still have chemical inbalances in their bodies.
There is always the hot girl who is a great
person, but is bitched about behind her back by even her so called best friends.
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