Copulin Report [Archive] - Love-Scent Pheromones Forum

MadMaxx

12-25-2003, 08:27 AM

If anyone has been

following it, I was whining about my problems with women in my dance group on some other thread. I guess I

accidentally hijacked that thread. I started posting their because there was some dance stuff going on.

I\'m

starting a new thread because I did an interesting experiment tonight that some might be interested in. Someone was

mentioning that different copulin products have different copulins, so that could affect how women react. I made

some big changes tonight, and got some good results and some bad results, but even the bad, which is quite bad in my

opinion, provides some interesting data.

Usually I wear -none, A1, and EW. Today I scrapped the -none except for

a hint of APC, which is very weak to say the least; I kept the EW, I kept the A1, and I added PCC(copulins). First

the bad news; my main target that I am in love with was very cold! I wouldn\'t go so far as to say bitchy, because

she wouldn\'t even talk to me. This is really scary. Also, another woman that has been hitting on me for weeks was

cold and bitchy. Also, very scary. It seems that maybe the different copulins that I added gave both of these women

the message that I started shagging some other woman??? So, they are therefore pissed off with me. That\'s one

theory anyway. If this is the case, does anyone have an idea what would be going on in their head? What I mean is,

would they consciously be thinking, \"the assho!e is shagging some new woman.\", or would they maybe not really be

conscious of why they are pissed with me? As for dancing, they were both able to dance a little better with me,

maybe because of the lack of -none, but this hardly makes me happy now that they both very cold toward me.

One

more bad result. A woman who has been seeming to not like dancing with me for some time actually did something VERY

unusual tonight. She actually purposely skipped me in the rotation in my dance lesson. Nobody EVER does this, not

ever. That freaked me out. I thought she would be better today, since I dropped the -none. So, she hates the new

cops; I don\'t know??? Her behavior is really weird because with the exception of the 2 women who like me being

very pissed with me and cold, everything else went quite good.

Basically, there is a whole herd of women that I

see regularly and dance with regularly. Some days some are okay, and some days the same ones are not okay with me.

By okay, I mean some days they seem to want to avoid me and some days they are okay to dance with me. Also, some

days they can physically dance with me and some days they can\'t. The good news is that a very large number of

these women, maybe all of them actually, could probably dance better with me and seems very happy to be dancing with

me. I think I may have to leave the -none at home from now on!

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

However, I would especially like to hear theories on the

different copulins and the whole deal with the women who supposedly have interest in me. Do you think I have

permanently blown it? I am planning to NOT use the PCC again in their presence. It should be interesting to see

whether they \"come back\". However, if I am stopping the -none, that will still be a difference in my

\"signature\" which could be an issue with them too.

Ash

12-25-2003, 09:08 AM

I think you think too

much!!! No offence!!! I also wonder why a guy would want to smell like pussy. I mean do you really think smelling

like pussy is going to attract a woman to you? Maybe if she\'s bi. The premise doesn\'t make much sense to me.

Do a search in the Women\'s Forum. There is a thread there about men using them. The general consensus was that it

was a BAD idea.

Holmes

12-25-2003, 09:24 AM

There\'s more than

one thread on that subject.

I agree that it might not be the best idea, especially in the setting you\'ve

described.

Holmes

MadMaxx

12-25-2003, 09:48 AM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
There\'s more than one thread on that

subject.

I agree that it might not be the best idea, especially in the setting you\'ve

described.

Holmes

<hr /></blockquote>

My post was not

about whether it is good or bad to use them. I have been using them for a year or two, and I don\'t have a problem

getting women. What\'s all this bull about consensus? How many of those armchair philosophers have done extensive

testing with them? I don\'t feel that they are a bad idea, per se. My last post was about a possible problem

related to switching copulin types, not about using them in general, in case you missed it.

Both of you

last two posters obviously missed a lot yourselves with regards to what might be useful about copulins, but I

don\'t have the time, energy, or inclination to attempt to enlighten you. Sorry.

Ash

12-25-2003, 10:58 AM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
First the bad news; my main target that I am in love with was very cold! I

wouldn\'t go so far as to say bitchy, because she wouldn\'t even talk to me. This is really scary. Also, another

woman that has been hitting on me for weeks was cold and bitchy. Also, very scary. It seems that maybe the different

copulins that I added gave both of these women the message that I started shagging some other woman??? So, they are

therefore pissed off with me. That\'s one theory anyway. If this is the case, does anyone have an idea what would

be going on in their head? What I mean is, would they consciously be thinking, \"the assho!e is shagging some new

woman.\", or would they maybe not really be conscious of why they are pissed with me? As for dancing, they were

both able to dance a little better with me, maybe because of the lack of -none, but this hardly makes me happy now

that they both very cold toward me.

<hr /></blockquote>

After using copulins for

\" a year or two \" it doesn\'t look like things are going all that well for you but with all that experience

maybe you would be the best one to answer your own question.

Holmes

12-25-2003, 11:08 AM

Maxx,

I\'ve done

a lot of experimenting with PCC and I am well aware of all thoughts (and theories) as to why copulins might be a

useful adjunct to guys\' main arsenals. Which is kind of why I gave them a shot in the first place.

My reason

for saying they might not be a great idea in certain situations was based on my own \"field work.\"

Personal experience, in other words.

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
What I mean

is, would they consciously be thinking, \"the assho!e is shagging some new woman.\", or would they maybe not

really be conscious of why they are pissed with me?

<hr /></blockquote>

Either one, or

a combination of both. They might be aware on an unconscious level that something\'s \"up,\" which may, in turn,

be throwing everything else off.

BTW, PCC and EW together? Holy mackerel...

Best of luck with

your continued experiments. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

Holmes

Friendly1

12-25-2003, 05:38 PM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Basically, there is a whole herd of women that I

see regularly and dance with regularly. Some days some are okay, and some days the same ones are not okay with me.

By okay, I mean some days they seem to want to avoid me and some days they are okay to dance with me. Also, some

days they can physically dance with me and some days they can\'t. The good news is that a very large number of

these women, maybe all of them actually, could probably dance better with me and seems very happy to be dancing with

me. I think I may have to leave the -none at home from now on.

<hr /></blockquote>

You

should go back and reread your report VERY carefully. What you\'re saying is, \"With Androstenone, I get a fair

amount of interest from women. Substituting Copulins for the Androstenone, I get treated like crap and far LESS

interest from women. Therefore, I am going to stop wearing the Androstenone and just rely on the Copulins.\"

If

it were me, I\'d stick with the Androstenone.

But (and please don\'t get offended by my asking this) do you

bathe, wear deoderant, and dress nice before each class? That makes a big difference. I know some of the guys on

this forum talk about going 2-3 days without bathing. I can\'t imagine why, but if they don\'t live in North

America, I suppose that bathing daily doesn\'t matter. Here it makes a BIG difference.

Elana

12-25-2003, 05:53 PM

Post deleted

by belgareth

MadMaxx

12-25-2003, 07:58 PM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Basically, there is a whole herd of women that I see regularly and dance with

regularly. Some days some are okay, and some days the same ones are not okay with me. By okay, I mean some days they

seem to want to avoid me and some days they are okay to dance with me. Also, some days they can physically dance

with me and some days they can\'t. The good news is that a very large number of these women, maybe all of them

actually, could probably dance better with me and seems very happy to be dancing with me. I think I may have to

leave the -none at home from now on.

<hr /></blockquote>

You should go back and reread

your report VERY carefully. What you\'re saying is, \"With Androstenone, I get a fair amount of interest from

women. Substituting Copulins for the Androstenone, I get treated like crap and far LESS interest from women.

Therefore, I am going to stop wearing the Androstenone and just rely on the Copulins.\"

If it were me, I\'d

stick with the Androstenone.

But (and please don\'t get offended by my asking this) do you bathe, wear

deoderant, and dress nice before each class? That makes a big difference. I know some of the guys on this forum

talk about going 2-3 days without bathing. I can\'t imagine why, but if they don\'t live in North America, I

suppose that bathing daily doesn\'t matter. Here it makes a BIG difference.

<hr /></blockquote>

First off, I am not offended. No problem in the bathing, dressing, style....etc. department. I

also can\'t fathom the guys who are talking about not bathing for days, but then again I had a roomate or two like

that that were not a problem, so go figure.

As for your other comments, I think you are the one that needs to

read VERY carefully. Part of it you got totally backwards, and the rest.....? Things got BETTER when I left the

-none at home. Also, I never \"substituted\" anything. I was using cops all along, with the -none, and then

without -none. Also, it isn\'t fair(or accurate) at all to say I got treated like \"crap\". I mentioned that

things went better with a whole herd of women. The only negative crappy thing was that MAYBE two women who are

supposedly interested in me were cold. Who knows with women though. There could be reasons(if you want to call them

that) outside of what messages the MAY be getting from my scent.

MadMaxx

12-25-2003, 08:10 PM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
also wonder why a guy would want to smell like pussy. I mean do you really

think smelling like pussy is going to attract a woman to you? Maybe if she\'s bi. The premise doesn\'t make much

sense to me.

<hr /></blockquote>

Seriously.

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif It\'s such a ridiculous theory. Men...do yourself a favor and

smell like men. That\'s why we love you.
Stick with the none.

<hr /></blockquote>

A valid opinion that I have heard many times, and am going to think about. There are a few

reasons why I use copulins and I will tell you one of them. Correct me if I am wrong, but I suspect that a lot you

have no idea what it is like to be in the shoes or skin of certain people, such as the guy who is the lone wolf

type. When you are already the lone wolf type -none exacerbates the problem tenfold. Copulins was the thing that I

discovered that worked amazingly well to make women feel comfortable with me. It even works far better than any -nol

or combination products for me. There are other problems with -nol products for me also; the -nol quickly breaks

down into -none, which means I then have a -none OD on my hands, which is not good for my state personally, and

certainly not good for the human relations department.

So, I will concede the using copulins can be a dangerous

game, BUT doing so is NOT without positive benefits. As the Friendly1 failed to notice in my long post, I have

successfully gotten women, and gotten and kept girlfriends, though using copulins.

MadMaxx

12-25-2003, 08:15 PM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Maxx,

I\'ve done a lot of experimenting with

PCC and I am well aware of all thoughts (and theories) as to why copulins might be a useful adjunct to guys\' main

arsenals. Which is kind of why I gave them a shot in the first place.

My reason for saying they might not

be a great idea in certain situations was based on my own \"field work.\" Personal experience, in other

words.

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
What I mean is, would they consciously be

thinking, \"the assho!e is shagging some new woman.\", or would they maybe not really be conscious of why they are

pissed with me?

<hr /></blockquote>

Either one, or a combination of both. They might be

aware on an unconscious level that something\'s \"up,\" which may, in turn, be throwing everything else

off.

BTW, PCC and EW together? Holy mackerel...

Best of luck with your continued experiments.

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

Holmes

<hr /></blockquote>

Thanks Holmes. I see your point in retrospect. The way I see it, the cops are maybe okay if I

just want to make all the women comfortable, but if I am wanting to \"get\" certain women in my circle for

example, it could be a dangerous game. It could indeed backfire when it comes to a woman who is actually interested

in me.

MadMaxx

12-25-2003, 11:10 PM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Either one, or a combination of both. They might be

aware on an unconscious level that something\'s \"up,\" which may, in turn, be throwing everything else

off.

BTW, PCC and EW together? Holy mackerel...

Best of luck with your continued experiments.

Holmes

<hr /></blockquote>

PCC and EW together? Why not?

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Live life on the edge, eh? Test the limits.
If you think about

it, it\'s not worse than these guys who go out with 4-5 drops or sprays of heavy -none product, plus this, plus

that.....I just about sh!t and fall off my chair when I read some of those posts.

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

I think we\'ve all got a few screws loose....

xvs

12-26-2003, 03:16 AM

I think I\'ve posted

about this b4, but I had quite a negative experience with copulins.

I was trying them out, and it did seem that

wearing them sometimes helped in initial encounters. The hypothesis there is that the woman smelled \"another

woman\" on me, therefore I was seen as a desirable man.

The problem came when I started dating one particular

gal, and kept wearing the cops. We got very close very quickly, and then she suddenly dropped me with no

discussion.

A half year later, we ran into each other and met a couple of times for tea, and I told her \"I have

a theory as to why you broke up with me.\", and I then told her I had been experimenting and explained to her what

copulins were.

She said \"Wow, I did have the idea you were cheating on me. I couldn\'t put my finger on it,

but it always seemed as if you had been with another woman.\"

I explained that I hadn\'t been cheating on her

really, and we ended up getting back together.

But the morals of the story are:

- Copulins may make some

women more interested in you.
- Copulins may make other women LESS interested in you (because they get the idea

you\'re a player).
- Copulins are probably a VERY BAD idea for men in a steady relationship.

Friendly1

12-26-2003, 05:01 PM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
I think you are the one that needs to read VERY

carefully....

<hr /></blockquote>

Well, you wrote:

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Usually I wear -none, A1, and EW. Today I scrapped the -none except for a

hint of APC, which is very weak to say the least; I kept the EW, I kept the A1, and I added PCC(copulins). First the

bad news; my main target that I am in love with was very cold! I wouldn\'t go so far as to say bitchy, because she

wouldn\'t even talk to me. This is really scary. Also, another woman that has been hitting on me for weeks was

cold and bitchy. Also, very scary....

One more bad result. A woman who has been seeming to not like dancing with

me for some time actually did something VERY unusual tonight. She actually purposely skipped me in the rotation in

my dance lesson. Nobody EVER does this, not ever....

<hr /></blockquote>

When you use

words like \"bitchy\" and \"scary\", and talk about being skipped in the rotation, it sounds to me like you got

treated like crap. Maybe not to you, but that is the way it sounds to me.

And, no, you didn\'t substitute like

I said. You just dropped the Androstenone.

I still say you should drop the Copulins and stick with the

Androstenone. I don\'t use Copulins and I never see behavior like you describe.

MadMaxx

12-26-2003, 11:49 PM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
I think I\'ve posted about this b4, but I had

quite a negative experience with copulins.

I was trying them out, and it did seem that wearing them sometimes

helped in initial encounters. The hypothesis there is that the woman smelled \"another woman\" on me, therefore I

was seen as a desirable man.

The problem came when I started dating one particular gal, and kept wearing the

cops. We got very close very quickly, and then she suddenly dropped me with no discussion.

A half year later, we

ran into each other and met a couple of times for tea, and I told her \"I have a theory as to why you broke up with

me.\", and I then told her I had been experimenting and explained to her what copulins were.

She said \"Wow, I

did have the idea you were cheating on me. I couldn\'t put my finger on it, but it always seemed as if you had

been with another woman.\"

I explained that I hadn\'t been cheating on her really, and we ended up getting

back together.

But the morals of the story are:

- Copulins may make some women more interested in you.
-

Copulins may make other women LESS interested in you (because they get the idea you\'re a player).
- Copulins

are probably a VERY BAD idea for men in a steady relationship.

<hr /></blockquote>

Fair enough general conclusions I guess. I did happen to go through a steady relationship and

continue to use them. As for as I know, I didn\'t have anything to do with our break up, although you never know I

guess. However, I honestly don\'t think it had anything to do with the break up. From stories I have heard though,

I can imagine that using them would be dangerous in a relationship. In my case, I told my girlfriend I was an

amateur perfumer, and thats why I had all these vials of weird sh!t, and she was aware that one of them smelled like

\"woman\". She had an amazing nose and she actually figured it smelled something like women\'s urine, even

though I did not give her any hint as to what it was.

DrSmellThis

12-27-2003, 09:04 AM

I\'ve found it

fairly reliable that cops are well used with bi-women, but it\'s like rolling the dice otherwise.

\"Do you

want to smell like a woman today?\"

DZorro

12-27-2003, 10:28 AM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
I\'ve found it fairly reliable that cops are well

used with bi-women, but it\'s like rolling the dice otherwise.

\"Do you want to smell like a woman today?\"

<hr /></blockquote>

Maybe what he is trying to do, is turning those bi-woman

straight again /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

DZorro,

TSgirl

12-27-2003, 05:32 PM

Have you considered

that these two women might be seeing you pay alot of attention not only to them, but to the others as well. That is

likely to bring about a negative response. I mean, if you are supposedly in love with the one, then why do you want

the other to come around again???

MadMaxx

12-27-2003, 08:29 PM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Have you considered that these two women might be

seeing you pay alot of attention not only to them, but to the others as well. That is likely to bring about a

negative response. I mean, if you are supposedly in love with the one, then why do you want the other to come

around again???

<hr /></blockquote>
My head is starting to spin here. I thought it was

supposed to be a good idea to pay attention to women other than the one you want, in order to make her jealous or at

least sit up and realize that if she plays too hard to get she\'s going to lose her opportunity, because there are

other women waiting in line. I have never done this before in my life, but I have started to experiement with it,

and it seems that it can work. It seems to me that it works more than it doesn\'t work; meaning, there may be

cases where the woman decides to shut you out because she thinks you are just after everyone and anyone, but I find

that if it is done \"wisely\" is seems to have positive benefits. When I say \"wisely\", I think what I mean is

that you can\'t go crawling all over all kinds of women and trying to pick them up or whatever. I don\'t have

anything ontoward going on. It\'s just friendly casual talking with other women, dancing with them(which

doesn\'t mean much in a social dance circle), and in some cases a hug here and there, because some of us just kind

of have that \"custom\" between us. I should also mention that I don\'t \"actively\" go after any of the

women, besides the one that I really want. The few others are basically coming after me; they are initiating, and I

basically \"receive\" without going so far as to give them anything that would indicate clearly to them whether I

am interested, or whether they are going to get anywhere with me. Wow, I just had a brilliant idea....maybe that is

how the woman I want is playing with me too....maybe she is being \"open\" but not pro-active, and if I want her

badly enough, maybe I have to really jump in with both feet.

Anyway, back to the topic, the passive and friendly

dealings that I have with various women, I think should be an advantage rather than a disadvantage.

Anyone got

any thoughts on the subject?

MadMaxx

12-27-2003, 08:41 PM

I don\'t even know

where this next story belongs, but I am just putting it here for the hell of it. I am not sure whether the point is

women\'s behavior in general, or the effect of pheros on women. I\'ve known a woman from my dance lesson for

months, and for quite a while it seemed like there could be something between us. We certainly enjoyed dancing

together all the time. Then, a month or two ago things got weird and she no longer enjoyed dancing with me at; would

even refuse the odd time. Thus, we don\'t even speak any more; no hello, no goodbye, nothing. I don\'t bother

asking her to dance anymore since she refused me a week ago. Friday night, she is leaving the club and she comes by

to say goodbye to me, touches my arm and takes my hand for a brief moment as part of the \"goodbye\". In my mind I

am like, \"what is this?\" If it has anything to do with pheros, all I can say is that I reduced the -none even

more this week; just some APC, which is weaker than hell, as far as I know. Still had the A1 and a tiny amount of

EW.

Any thoughts, wise people? It may not sound like a \"big deal\"; I know it\'s not a massive hit or

something,
but at the same time it is significantly \"out of character\" or outside of her normal behavior.

SwingerMD

12-27-2003, 10:09 PM

MadMaxx,

From the

sound of it, my best guess is that there is something else going on that you don\'t know about. I\'ve had at

least a handhandfull of follows or women that were at very affectionate/flirty/playful suddenly turn icey all of a

sudden. I all of these cases I found out later that they had boyfriends or had just gotten a boyfriend

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif .

One of my fav people to dance with suddenly started acting

weird when I danced with her when I had SOE on. Everyone around us were in a very easy going/jokey mood while I

felt the dance connection with this person slipping, her avoiding eye contact with me (very unusual for her), and

then she pratically ran away from me after that one dance. Another person that was extremely forward when I had my

SMD#1 combo on (hell she pratically said that she wanted to \"do it\" with me

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif ). Two months later when I finally asked her out she told me that

she now has a boyfriend. She still went to the concert with me. Just to see what would happen I wore the same

amount of SMD#1 again. It was pure hell /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif . I sat through the

entire concert listening to reassure herself again, and again, and . . . that her boyfriend loves her

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif . And a third one, I could tell whenever she and her boyfriend

got into a fight. The next day she would pop up during my shift and \"hint\" that she wanted to go out with me.

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

Thanks to all of those experiences, I usually backpeddle as

fast as I can when I find out that someone that I\'m interested in has a boyfriend. So far, it really hasn\'t

been worth all the trouble.

--------------------
 -SwingerMD

Numanoid

12-28-2003, 12:07 AM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Another person that was extremely forward when I had

my SMD#1 combo on (hell she pratically said that she wanted to \"do it\" with me ). Two months later when I

finally asked her out she told me that she now has a boyfriend.

<hr /></blockquote>

Two months later? Could it be you waited a little too long?

Friendly1

12-28-2003, 04:01 AM

You know,

boyfriends are often just temporary arm candy for the girls. They do fall in love with their boyfriends on

occasion, but they also usually keep their eyes (and their hearts) open for something better.

For most girls, a

boyfriend is either potential husband material or something convenient to fill the time until the next potential

husband comes along. Sooner or later, most boyfriends screw up enough and get dumped.

I\'ve seen a lot of guys

on this forum talk about backing off if a girl has a boyfriend. You need to be more competitive. If she has a

boyfriend and STILL has interest in you, let HER make the decision. She is not his property (any more than she will

become your property if she chooses to make you her boyfriend).

Elana

12-28-2003, 05:23 AM

Friendly1- I bet you

get cheated on all of the time. Karma /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Elana

12-28-2003, 05:29 AM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
I thought it was supposed to be a good idea to pay

attention to women other than the one you want, in order to make her jealous or at least sit up and realize that if

she plays too hard to get she\'s going to lose her opportunity,
because there are other women waiting in line.

<hr /></blockquote>

Maybe some women would put up with that. Secure women would look

right through you and your ridiculous behavior.

DrSmellThis

12-28-2003, 05:20 PM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
I thought it was supposed to be a good idea to pay attention to women other

than the one you want, in order to make her jealous or at least sit up and realize that if she plays too hard to get

she\'s going to lose her opportunity,
because there are other women waiting in line.

<hr

/></blockquote>

Maybe some women would put up with that. Secure women would look right

through you and your ridiculous behavior.

<hr /></blockquote>There are male

perspectives, and female perspectives. Like men, women are often unaware or in denial of what they do and why. Just

last week I went out with a pretty, secure woman who told me she at first thought I was more interested in her (to

me, less attractive) sister (just a calculated act /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif). Whether there

was a connection between events, I don\'t know. The act didn\'t hurt anything, to be sure, as I continued being

friendly to the sister. In any case, it is important at first for a guy to \"be\" (or act) equally interested in

all parties in a given social circle, or else many women there will \"see right through your ridiculous behavior\"

of just being interested in the one you\'re attracted to! This behavior too \"deserves condemnation\" per

certain, more judicial genders. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif So just do what works, I

recommend, and damn the torpedos.

DrSmellThis

12-28-2003, 05:33 PM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
You know, boyfriends are often just temporary arm

candy for the girls. They do fall in love with their boyfriends on occasion, but they also usually keep their eyes

(and their hearts) open for something better.

For most girls, a boyfriend is either potential husband

material or something convenient to fill the time until the next potential husband comes along. Sooner or later,

most boyfriends screw up enough and get dumped.

I\'ve seen a lot of guys on this forum talk about backing

off if a girl has a boyfriend. You need to be more competitive. If she has a boyfriend and STILL has interest in

you, let HER make the decision. She is not his property (any more than she will become your property if she chooses

to make you her boyfriend).

<hr /></blockquote>
I pretty much agree. Attractive

young women virtually always have somebody they are seeing, so you can\'t be totally passive. They know men

are hunters, and they can be responsible for resisting whatever temptation you throw their way; or better yet, for

communicating the nature of their current attachment. Of course, the more you happen to know about the type of

relationship they have, the better. If they\'re engaged, back off. Otherwise, what is more practical to do depends

on the situation. Often women can be challenged to \"dump\" their current side of beef.

By the same token,

you can\'t put all your eggs in one basket when a pretty young woman starts to see you, as it may be all over

tomorrow, or even later this afternoon. Fickle ain\'t no river in Egypt.

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif So pound it out fast and furious while you have the chance, and

keep your eyes open! Dating survivors try to avoid the temptation to commit much of anything at first.

Those

who pretend to speak for another\'s Karma, not having walked in their shoes, may not understand their own.

Elana

12-28-2003, 05:47 PM

Post deleted

by belgareth

SwingerMD

12-28-2003, 05:48 PM

I agree with you as

well. You can\'t be passive, but you have to be very careful too. Getting the girl in these situations require a

lot of skill as well as luck.

Ending up on the boyfriend\'s threat radar isn\'t very pleasent. Not cheap

when it came to cell phone bills as well.

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

--------------------
 -SwingerMD

Pancho1188

12-28-2003, 05:58 PM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Fickle ain\'t no river in Egypt.

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

<hr /></blockquote>

1955 Biff: Why

don\'t you make like a tree and get out of here...
2015 Biff: Leave!!! It\'s, \"Make like a tree and

leave!\" You sound stupid when you say it wrong!!!

DrSmellThis

12-28-2003, 06:12 PM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
I forgot who I was talking too. You are right guys.

You are all a bunch of studs and have all the secrets to getting women. Carry on with your brilliant theories that

seem to work so well. Don\'t forget the extra 10 drops of EW. You should even try wearing a dress. That would

probably really get the women wet. I really do need to write that book.

<hr /></blockquote>No, si vous plais, heterosexual women have all the secrets to picking up heterosexual women,

they\'ve done it so much! And on the other hand, when they themselves have been picked up, they\'ve always been

so aware of, and in control of all their faculties and biological functions, and analyzed them so well! Thank you,

too, for recognizing that most of the the fine, enterprising men here are definitely more sexually successful than

average, even if not by certain women\'s own standards. You men are sissies who\'ve tried EW and had the

occasional hit! I know what being a real man is, after all, from what idiosyncratic women tell me when they are

grumpy and feeling angry at men. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Elana

12-28-2003, 06:15 PM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Thank you, too, for recognizing that most of the

the fine, enterprising men here are definitely more sexually successful than average,

<hr /></blockquote> You don\'t really believe that now, do you? It sounded nice, but come on now.

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

DrSmellThis

12-28-2003, 06:26 PM

Those here I know

personally are, by a long shot. It\'s not my place to name names. How many partners do you think the average man

gets in a lifetime, or by his 30\'s?

Elana

12-28-2003, 06:35 PM

Yes, I agree that there

are several guys who do very well with the ladies. One of the biggest studs is probably one of the youngest guys

here....BUT some of these guys that come on the forum quoting crap out of these manuals, come off as tools. It\'s

such a joke. There is no way that intelligent women can\'t see through their games. Now I am not saying that there

isn\'t \"game\" involved in dating. It goes both ways, but when a guy comes on this forum and starts telling the

other guys die hard rules on how to pick up women and what women want and how they will respond to this or that, it

is a joke. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Ash

12-28-2003, 07:43 PM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Thank you,

too, for recognizing that most of the the fine, enterprising men here are definitely more sexually successful than

average,

<hr /></blockquote> You don\'t really believe that now, do you? It sounded

nice, but come on now. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

<hr /></blockquote>

Sorry Doc. I don\'t believe it either. In fact I believe just the opposite. Most of the guys

on this Forum aren\'t getting any at all. They couldn\'t get any without the use of mones and that\'s what

brought them to this site in the first place. The predominate posts about getting \"hits\" are just about getting

hits and not about getting sex or getting involved in a good relationship. Things may be different for you and some

of the people you know personally but the majority of posts I read are from people that didn\'t know how to close

the sale before they started using mones and they aren\'t any better at it after using mones even though mones

have given them a tremendous edge.

DrSmellThis

12-28-2003, 07:49 PM

Well I hate debating

things that are either facts or they are not, (\"empirical questions\") but I failed at several genuine attempts

to create a poll to test this hypothesis (see list of posts). Maybe someone else can help here.

I haven\'t

seen anyone say they haven\'t \"gotten any\", so you are maybe projecting issues onto people here. I see lots of

people strike out with particular women, but what do you expect? Even Casanova \"failed\" way more than he

\"succeeded.\" I certainly don\'t reveal most of my personal life here, and I assume others don\'t either.

Folks who have girlfriends are not doing a whole lot of graphic blow by blow reporting. The forum attracts

some men and women who are feeling desparate, but frankly, characterizing them mostly as being that way reads

like veiled insecurity. I haven\'t seen women report a lot of current sexual experiences either, even the great

Elana. That doesn\'t mean they aren\'t having them.

For now I will go on believing about phero users as

the research suggests, and respect that many are here because they are on the cutting edge of culture and have an

adventurous, (maybe a little mischievous) scientific spirit to go along with an above average interest in sex.

Elana

12-28-2003, 07:51 PM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Well I hate debating things that are either facts

or they are not, (\"empirical questions\") but I failed at several genuine attempts to create a poll to test this

hypothesis (see list of posts). Maybe soemone else can help here.

<hr /></blockquote>

Polls work great on this forum. Just look at the penis size poll. I think we had like 10 guys

that were over 10\" and maybe 2 or 3 that were less than 6\". /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

DrSmellThis

12-28-2003, 08:21 PM

Really?! Check the

poll again. From my memory, it came out just about like the general population stats, with average being in the 6\"

range. Maybe folks exaggerated a little, but most I think wanted to be honest so they could find out where they

\"stood.\"

...OK, here is the

post:

www.server2.love-scent.com/ubbthreads/sho

wflat.php?Cat=&Board=health&Number=100272&page=0&v iew=collapsed&sb=5&o=31&fpart=1&vc

=1 (\"http://www.server2.love-scent.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=health&Number=1002

72&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=31&fpart=1&vc=1\")

The unexpected numbers under \"over 12\"\" are called \"outliers\" in statistics, a common

phenomenon, and are often discounted in one way or another. Those are the people who, maybe some of them, were just

fooling around with the poll and gave invalid answers, like the few who said they had most hits with over 25 dabs of

edge.

If you take away the outliers, the rest of the numbers look reasonable to me, just like a bell curve

-- 5\'s, 6\'s, and 7\'s. In fact, the \"mode\" (measurement most often reported) was 5 1/2 inches. So I

don\'t know what you\'re on about.

Our self reporters may have exaggerated by half an inch on the

average, judging by old physician reports (I think they guessed an average 5 1/2\") on the same thing. But who\'s

gonna get maximally erect in a doctor\'s office?

Elana

12-28-2003, 09:08 PM

How about this

poll?

http://www.server2.love-scent.com/ubbthreads/showfla

t.php?Cat=&Board=offTopic&Number=87163&page=&view= &sb=5&o=&fpart=1&vc=1 (\"http://www.server2.love-scent.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=offTopic&Number=87

163&page=&view=&sb=5&o=&fpart=1&vc=1\")

Elana

12-28-2003, 09:10 PM

or this

one?

http://www.server2.love-scent.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?C

at=&Board=health&Number=67913&page=&view=&sb=5&o=& fpart=1&vc=1 (\"http://www.server2.love-scent.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=health&Number=67913&amp

;page=&view=&sb=5&o=&fpart=1&vc=1\")

Ash

12-28-2003, 09:31 PM

I\'m just going by what

I read Doc. Lots of hits but very, very few scores. You\'re thinking that people are holding back on the dirty

details? As a general rule, guy\'s are notorious for kissing and telling and I would think the anonymity of the

Forum would amplify that and the \"telling\" would be in volumes; if there was anything to tell. You could be

right though, the male Forum members here could be a very refined group and once they find something that works they

drop off never to be heard from again. There is no doubt in my mind that mones work. The problem I see is the people

using them not knowing what to do when they do work.

<blockquote>Quote:<hr

/>
For now I will go on believing about phero users as the research suggests, and respect that many are here

because they are on the cutting edge of culture and have an adventurous, (maybe a little mischievous) scientific

spirit to go along with an above average interest in sex.

<hr /></blockquote>

I\'ll go along with the adventurous and mischievous part but the \" on the cutting edge of culture\" is a

bit much I think. I mean, I hope that some Forum members aren\'t that. What a scary thought.

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

DrSmellThis

12-28-2003, 09:56 PM

We\'re seeing

experimenter effects, most likely.

The first post is flippant in the attitude of the poster. This pollster

clearly communicates he doesn\'t believe in penis polls, that he devotes his forum life to being a human shrine to

a \"famous huge penis enthusiast\", and that he wants people to answer differently than they did before, which

wasn\'t good enough for him. So the results are correspondingly more variable or scattered. Typical sloppy poll

design.

I trust the second by cloud 9 even less, as he bragged about his 14 inch cock for some time, and

circulated photos (so I hear, anyway), just before personally posting that poll. So he clearly biased the results in

the positive direction on that one.

None of this was evidence against the validity of polls. It is evidence

that poorly conducted science leads to uninformative, contaminated results.

Still, results came out in the

six 1/2 range. Give it up, Elana. Polls are well respected scientific tools, when used, designed and interpreted

properly.

DrSmellThis

12-28-2003, 10:12 PM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
\"on the cutting edge of culture\" is a bit much

I think. I mean, I hope that some Forum members aren\'t that. What a scary thought.

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

<hr /></blockquote>
True, I\'d be

scared too, if ghostclown or the guy who couldn\'t wash off his pheros for months were cutting edge.

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif I\'ve never thought guys were as \"kiss and tell\" as their rap

is, but your opinion is valid, too.

Most guys everywhere are dissatisfied with the amount of sex they\'re

getting. Pheros are not going to change that. With the earth becoming more crowded, I predict, women are going to

want even less sex in the future, on the average, since biology reflects ecology.

MadMaxx

12-28-2003, 10:23 PM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
I\'m just going by what I read Doc. Lots of hits

but very, very few scores. You\'re thinking that people are holding back on the dirty details? As a general rule,

guy\'s are notorious for kissing and telling and I would think the anonymity of the Forum would amplify that and

the \"telling\" would be in volumes; if there was anything to tell. You could be right though, the male Forum

members here could be a very refined group and once they find something that works they drop off never to be heard

from again. There is no doubt in my mind that mones work. The problem I see is the people using them not knowing

what to do when they do work.

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
For now I will

go on believing about phero users as the research suggests, and respect that many are here because they are on the

cutting edge of culture and have an adventurous, (maybe a little mischievous) scientific spirit to go along with an

above average interest in sex.

<hr /></blockquote>

I\'ll go along

with the adventurous and mischievous part but the \" on the cutting edge of culture\" is a bit much I think. I

mean, I hope that some Forum members aren\'t that. What a scary thought.

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

<hr /></blockquote>

Some of you naysayer who are \"against\" Dr. Smell have some sort of valid points, but

for the most part I go along with Dr. Smell. First of all, I know that I am guilty of all kinds of mistakes and

shortcomings when it comes to women, but nonetheless, if you can believe everything you read, the number of women I

have been with by my 30\'s is beyond the average. I also know that along with my failures to \"close\" with

women that I have wanted, is an even greater number of deals that I did not \"close\" because the woman was not

simply not sexually attractive enough for me, which is something that I have pretty high standards about. I will be

in a pub with a friend and he will point out 5 women that he slept with, and for me, I couldn\'t have possibly

gotten it up for any of them.

Finally, as for the lack of details that are seen on the forum, you cannot

base any conclusions from it. I have been on the forum for almost a couple of years, and during that time I have

gotten women, and had a couple of steady girlfriends. For one reason or another, I did not think it was a priority

to share the stories with all of you. And for the naysayers in a certain camp, I will add that all of it was pulled

off \"despite\" the fact that I use copulins; and don\'t forget, I\'ve turned down a few too, \"despite\"

the fact that I use copulins, which most people here seem to thing is incredibly stupid. Of course you might be

right, maybe I should stop using them and my success will really skyrocket.

Ash

12-29-2003, 12:31 AM

This is a link that

Macky posted with the poll Doc referenced.

<blockquote>Quote:<hr

/>
Ansell, makers of LifeStyles Condoms, has conducted research into average penis size. The survey found that the

average length of the erect penis is 5.877 inches (14.928cm), with the majority ranging between the small 5.5 inch

penis size (14cm) and the large 6.3 inch penises (16cm).

The average girth is 4.972 inches (12.63cm), with the

majority ranging between 4.7 inches (12cm) and 5.1 inches (13cm). This indicates that the difference between small

penis size and large is not very big.

From March 11 to 17, 2001 a total 401 males over the age of 18 were

measured, one at a time, by qualified medical staff (protected by Ansell Medi-Touch gloves) in private tents at the

Dady Rock nightclub in Cancun, Mexico. Of the 401 men, 300 were able to gain an erection for measurement - a success

rate of only 75%.

The LifeStyles Condoms Average Penis Size Survey was designed to create a better condom, to

ensure that they are sized properly, comfortable and won\'t slip.Are you interested in the different size condoms

available?

Sample Size

401 male voluteers of which, only 300 were \"effective\" male volunteers (75%),

as 101 male volunteers (25%) could not gain an erection for measurement. At 300 effective measurements, this study

is twice the size of any previous study that uses medical staff to measure penis size. This method is more accurate

and reliable than studies where volunteers undertake self-measurement / reporting.

Erect Penis Length

The

average erect penis length was 5.877 inches (14.928cm).
Standard deviation was 0.825 inches (2.096cm) with 54% of

the effective sample measuring between 5.5 inches (14cm) and 6.3 inches (16cm).

Erect Penis Girth

The

average erect penis girth was 4.972 inches (12.63cm).
Standard deviation was 0.508 inches (1.29cm) or with 53.33%

of the effective sample measuring between 4.725 inches (12cm) and 5.118 inches (13cm).

Conclusion

It is

fair to say that in all cases, where medical staff has measured erect penis size, the average length has been below

6 inches and in every case where the surveys rely on self-measurement and voluntary reporting the average leaps over

six inches. Interestingly average girth remains around 5 inches in all surveys.

Using the figure of 5.877 inches

from the LifeStyles Condoms Average Penis Size Survey it appears that men on average exaggerate their penis length

by a quarter to a half an inch when they are permitted to measure and report their own size.

The results do show

that the difference between small penises, average penis size and large penises is not so great as folklore might

have us believe.

<hr /></blockquote>

I find their conclusion

interesting.

I don\'t think anybody is \"against\" the Doc, Max. Just a difference of opinion. When it comes

to sex, I think people, men , tend to exaggerate and boast and then talk about it afterward. If there is an

afterward. Your friend in the pub as an example. That\'s what is so telling to me when I read most of the posts

here. The majority are from guys having problems and are responded to by other guys having problems. Again, I think

mones work. I know they work for me. They alter my environment in favor of me. I like that. I can\'t help but

believe that they work the same for others as they work for you (Max) and the Doc and me. (Although I don\'t get

sex very often as I\'m now a very old man). I think the problem is guys not knowing how to work the mones. OR take

advantage of the work the mones are doing for them. I get the feeling that you and Doc wouldn\'t have problems if

mones weren\'t around but most of the guys here have problems with or without mones. But the Doc may be right

about guys not getting enough as opposed to not getting any at all.

As to using cops; I\'m glad they work for

you. I think that\'s the answer. Finding something that alters the environment for you. Even if it\'s just a

small change in your favor. Then stick with it. Don\'t be changing your signature every other day. Give your new

signature a chance to lock into the brain of your target. That\'s what I\'ve been doing. I\'ve been using the

same mix for a couple months now and it\'s really starting to pay off with both young and older women. I\'ll

tweak it on occasion for a special occasion but the base mix stays the same. I think there\'s a comfort level that

people begin to feel with you when your signature remains semi-constant. A security in being around something

familiar and attractive at the same time.

Elana

12-29-2003, 04:37 AM

Drsmellthis...I find it

amusing how you try to dismiss the links that I posted to the polls.

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif Ironic how you accept the poll from Phantom as valid.

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Still, results came out in the six 1/2 range. Give

it up, Elana. Polls are well respected scientific tools, when used, designed and interpreted properly.

<hr

/></blockquote>

I never doubted polls in general. I doubted the ones on this

forum.
I think that you are the one that needs to give it up.

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Just for the record, I am very aware of the fact that you

do very well with the women. I know several men here do well too. I also believe what Ash said about men being

braggers. They are so quick to write a 3 paragraph report about the girl that smiled at them. I have a feeling that

if that same guy got some, he would be writing a book about it.

Holmes

12-29-2003, 08:03 AM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
With the earth becoming more crowded, I predict,

women are going to want even less sex in the future, on the average, since biology reflects ecology.

<hr

/></blockquote>

Stop it, Doc! You\'re bummin\' me out. (Which is to say yeah, good

point.) /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Holmes

MadMaxx

12-29-2003, 08:22 AM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Drsmellthis...I find it amusing how you try to

dismiss the links that I posted to the polls. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Still, results came out in the six 1/2 range. Give

it up, Elana. Polls are well respected scientific tools, when used, designed and interpreted properly.

<hr

/></blockquote>

I never doubted polls in general. I doubted the ones on this forum.
I

think that you are the one that needs to give it up. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Just for

the record, I am very aware of the fact that you do very well with the women. I know several men here do well too. I

also believe what Ash said about men being braggers. They are so quick to write a 3 paragraph report about the girl

that smiled at them. I have a feeling that if that same guy got some, he would be writing a book about it.

<hr /></blockquote>

Actually, I disagree with you(surprise). I do write 3 paragraph

reports when a woman smiles at me, but when we do some good shagging, I don\'t ever bother to logon to the forum

and tell you about it. Why? I don\'t know. Maybe because there is no mystery and nothing that I am trying to

understand. What happened becomes pretty obvious. How interested the woman was is pretty obvious. OR, maybe I\'m

just too busy having too much sex in such a case, and the last thing on my mind is telling you about it.

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

franki

12-29-2003, 08:27 AM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />

They are so quick to write a 3 paragraph report about the girl that

smiled at them. I have a feeling that if that same guy got some, he would be writing a book about it.

<hr /></blockquote>

Maybe this goes for a few of the posters here, but I think most of

the posters would keep quiet about having sex etc. It certainly might be a good idea to not tell too much, cause you

never know who is reading it.. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Elana

12-29-2003, 08:28 AM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
OR, maybe I\'m just too busy having too much sex

in such a case, and the last thing on my mind is telling you about it.

<hr /></blockquote>

OK
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Pancho1188

12-29-2003, 09:42 AM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
It certainly might be a good idea to not tell too

much, cause you never know who is reading it.. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

<hr

/></blockquote>

Yeah, I\'ll never forget the one time I happened to have sex with Elana

and didn\'t know that she was THE Elana at the time. Good thing I didn\'t let that information slip...I

fortunately made the connection when I realized she was the world\'s most perfect woman. Otherwise, I would\'ve

spilled it all over the forum ***simile deleted, but you can just imagine***...

PS: This didn\'t really

happen, but if it did happen, you could be sure I wouldn\'t be talking about it on the forum...

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

CptKipling

12-29-2003, 09:48 AM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
As a general rule, guy\'s are notorious for

kissing and telling and I would think the anonymity of the Forum would amplify that and the \"telling\" would be

in volumes; if there was anything to tell.

<hr /></blockquote>

Not quite.

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Maybe this goes for a few of the posters here, but

I think most of the posters would keep quiet about having sex etc. It certainly might be a good idea to not tell too

much, cause you never know who is reading it..

<hr /></blockquote>

Something to

think about perhaps /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif

Personally, I think it\'s nice to post \"little\" hits now

and again, and I do on the rare occasions that I muster the impetus. I find it interesting to read other peoples

stories, so it\'s only fair that I post some aswell.

However, if someone were to look back at all my posts, I

doubt that they would find much of anything in the way of \"lewd\" posts. Amongst my friends I am know as being

notoriously tight lipped about my sexual exploits, as many of them are with girlfriends, and those that

aren\'t...well I don\'t think it\'s any of their business. I do have in depth \"heart to hearts\" with one

or two of my friends, but in general I don\'t kiss and tell out of respect for peoples privacy (and their pride

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif ).

Back to the earlier topic of discussion...

This all comes

back to the idea of \"social proof\", does it not? There was a very interesting thread about this a while back

Copulin Thread (\"http://www.server2.love-scent.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB5&Number=80570&Forum=UB B

5&Words=social%20proof&Match=Entire%20Phrase&Searc hpage=1&Limit=25&Old=1year&Main=80295&

Search=true#Post80570\")

Whitehall wrote:

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Say what you will, ladies, but it sure is obvious to men that having a woman

or women clinging to you in public is the best way to get attention and respect from other women. A lone wolf has a

more difficult task in arousing women\'s attention because the man lacks that social validation. Likewise the

guy who is acting wussy and submissive to the woman he\'s with. Women are especially prone to social

validation - who of you wants to wear unfashionable shoes?

<hr /></blockquote>

In

some situations that has a lot of truth to it. I italicised that sentence because I see this happening with people I

know all the time, and is much more obvious when it happens. However, it only happens with some women.

I think

Social Proof is much more a subtle dance than has been previously implied. Social proof will not get you laid. It

will, however, get some women’s subconscious ticking over, thinking that maybe this guy has something special. We

also notice that many women can be very competitive; again, not all women, but a reasonable chunk of the population.

It’s all about climbing the social ladder, the ultimate aim being to mix gametes with the best genes possible. So

when some women see a man socialising (obviously the type of socialisation is important) with other women, they

assume that he is a worthy mate…or at least that’s how the theory goes. I think a more important aspect has been

left out though, if a man is seen having fun with women, and they find him interesting and feel secure around him,

it means that other women seeing this can be that little bit more confident that he is good company and not a

threat.

But anyway, if you haven’t already, read the link I posted.

Elana

12-29-2003, 09:57 AM

Pancho...didn\'t you

know it was me when you smelled the PCC?

Cpt...nobody ever had any doubts about you.

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

You guys should know that many men on this forum agree with

what Ash said. Most of the guys that I talk with by PM or email agree him. They are just not speaking out on this

thread. I aint scared. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

franki

12-29-2003, 10:04 AM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
They are just not speaking out on this thread.

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

<hr /></blockquote>

I am not

scared... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif I thought Ash was just stating the obvious.

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

franki

12-29-2003, 10:07 AM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
It certainly

might be a good idea to not tell too much, cause you never know who is reading it..

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

<hr /></blockquote>

Yeah, I\'ll

never forget the one time I happened to have sex with Elana and didn\'t know that she was THE Elana at the time.

Good thing I didn\'t let that information slip...I fortunately made the connection when I realized she was the

world\'s most perfect woman. Otherwise, I would\'ve spilled it all over the forum ***simile deleted, but you

can just imagine***...

<hr /></blockquote>

You can make fun of what I said, but

these things can happen... I remember DrSmelly saying in a PM to me that a girl who he was dating was reading the

forum.. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Elana

12-29-2003, 10:10 AM

Franki...\"ain\'t\"

is in the dictionary. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Pancho1188

12-29-2003, 10:18 AM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Pancho...didn\'t you know it was me when you

smelled the PCC?

<hr /></blockquote>

I wouldn\'t know...all coherent brain function

ceased by that period...It all went downhill either when I smelled those or when I saw you for the first time...but

since light travels faster than scent, I\'d say it was seeing you when my brain short-circuited...

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Pancho1188

12-29-2003, 10:20 AM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
It certainly

might be a good idea to not tell too much, cause you never know who is reading it..

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

<hr /></blockquote>

Yeah, I\'ll

never forget the one time I happened to have sex with Elana and didn\'t know that she was THE Elana at the time.

Good thing I didn\'t let that information slip...I fortunately made the connection when I realized she was the

world\'s most perfect woman. Otherwise, I would\'ve spilled it all over the forum ***simile deleted, but you

can just imagine***...

<hr /></blockquote>

You can make fun of what I said, but

these things can happen... I remember DrSmelly saying in a PM to me that a girl who he was dating was reading the

forum.. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

<hr /></blockquote>

They can, and I bet they do. I wasn\'t making fun of you, I was

just making a joke. My apologies for any offense. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

franki

12-29-2003, 10:21 AM

Pancho1188

12-29-2003, 10:38 AM

franki

12-29-2003, 10:41 AM

Are you George or Jerry?

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Kari

12-29-2003, 11:14 AM

Kari

12-29-2003, 11:15 AM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
I don\'t even know where this next story belongs, but I am just putting it

here for the hell of it. I am not sure whether the point is women\'s behavior in general, or the effect of pheros

on women. I\'ve known a woman from my dance lesson for months, and for quite a while it seemed like there could be

something between us. We certainly enjoyed dancing together all the time. Then, a month or two ago things got weird

and she no longer enjoyed dancing with me at; would even refuse the odd time. Thus, we don\'t even speak any more;

no hello, no goodbye, nothing. I don\'t bother asking her to dance anymore since she refused me a week ago. Friday

night, she is leaving the club and she comes by to say goodbye to me, touches my arm and takes my hand for a brief

moment as part of the \"goodbye\". In my mind I am like, \"what is this?\" If it has anything to do with pheros,

all I can say is that I reduced the -none even more this week; just some APC, which is weaker than hell, as far as I

know. Still had the A1 and a tiny amount of EW.

Any thoughts, wise people? It may not sound like a \"big

deal\"; I know it\'s not a massive hit or something,
but at the same time it is significantly \"out of

character\" or outside of her normal behavior.

<hr /></blockquote>

I\'d forgo the

EW, if I were you. The poo-say smell on you is likely to be a turn-off to women.

DrSmellThis

12-29-2003, 11:44 AM

Elana, I\'m not

biased one way or the other about polls here. If they\'re good I like \'em.

But why did I pick on the polls

you cited? Give me a break. You voted yourself (a woman with a penis, apparently)in the first one you posted,

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif then bragged about it as results were still rolling in. Then other

women started voting, people were joking and voting randomly, pushing poll buttons just to be funny. That poll

should have been deleted immediately once all the BS started happening with it! I provided standard academic reasons

why I didn\'t like ones I didn\'t like. \"Edge dabs\" was a more than adequate poll for how simple it was, and

provided standard information for how to use Edge. There is no a priori reason polls shouldn\'t work here,

as long as people don\'t sabotage them.

Elana

12-29-2003, 11:51 AM

That is like saying \"I

read a bunch of studies on obesity, but I am only going to take serious the studies that look the most accurate to

what I think they should be.\"

Icarus

12-29-2003, 11:55 AM

It\'s no joke. I

once had to fend off a raging chinchilla.

Elana

12-29-2003, 12:02 PM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
It\'s no joke. I once had to fend off a raging chinchilla.

<hr

/></blockquote>

How much EW did you have on?

Pancho1188

12-29-2003, 12:10 PM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
That is like saying \"I read a bunch of studies on

obesity, but I am only going to take serious the studies that look the most accurate to what I think they should

be.\"

<hr /></blockquote>

Ahhh, the double-edged sword... You can\'t take them

seriously because you know some people are lying or joking, but you also can\'t not (double-negative, I know) take

them seriously just because the data isn\'t \"what you expected\" because in a true experiment you can\'t deny

it just because it\'s not what you were \"supposed\" to get... Damned if you do, damned if you

don\'t.

Rely on experiments conducted by researchers instead of \"self-reported\" experiments because

they\'re more accurate and won\'t cause all of this debate.

Maybe people should take a look at why they want

to know this information in the first place on the L-S forum when they have the actual research data (unless you

wanted to see if L-S forum people were bigger than average, but why would you want to have such

information?).............A better poll would be to go on the women\'s forum and ask them what THEY prefer in

terms of size (including an option \"unless you\'re 1 inch or 15 inches, size doesn\'t matter\"). Although

some women may exaggerate on the larger size because that\'s what society has told them feels better and is what

they should want (Self-fulfilling prophecy), they\'re MUCH more likely to be honest than men...and you most likely

won\'t have straight men voting on that poll to screw up the results...

Oh, and better than a self-reported

poll would be to have Elana guess the average based on all of the pictures she has...sure, it\'s hard to guess

size by pictures, but it\'s a helluva lot better than asking men for their \"honest\" opinions...

Elana

12-29-2003, 12:22 PM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Oh, and better than a self-reported poll would be

to have Elana guess the average based on all of the pictures she has...sure, it\'s hard to guess size by pictures,

but it\'s a helluva lot better than asking men for their \"honest\" opinions...

<hr /></blockquote>

Even that would be totally off, because the larger guys are the guys that would be most likely

to want to show off what they have got. They would be the ones most likely to send out their pics.

Pancho1188

12-29-2003, 12:28 PM

Very good point,

Elana... I was under the impression you had EVERY guy\'s picture... My mistake.

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif Bad assumption.

DrSmellThis

12-29-2003, 12:32 PM

Yes, this is what

scientists, and good consumers of science, do! They think critically and objectively; learn to separate the wheat

from the chaff, and take seriously only those studies that pass scientific muster, in the way they were designed and

carried out. For some reason you seem to be thinking of anti-scientific folk who simply believe what they want to

believe and ignore the rest, regardless of the quality or content of the research. If you want to make a case that I

am somehow doing this go ahead. But the burden of proof is on you. I\'ve made my points.

Personally, I find

the social validation theory much more interesting. I agree that there\'s something to it, especially in the

careful way it was stated here. I do think it can, on certain occasions, work that way with copulins, as I think

I\'ve expereinced it.

Elana

12-29-2003, 12:42 PM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
I do think it can, on certain occasions, work that

way with copulins, as I think I\'ve expereinced it.

<hr /></blockquote>

We know

that women have different taste in men. I guess some women would go for that. I would think it would give you a less

than manly aura. Just thinking about it seems less than masculine. I am the type of woman that gets turned on by the

extra dose of none. The more manly the better. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

You have

always done well with the women. Why do you think it was the EW that did the trick?

MadMaxx

12-29-2003, 09:19 PM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
I don\'t even know where this next story belongs, but I am just putting it

here for the hell of it. I am not sure whether the point is women\'s behavior in general, or the effect of pheros

on women. I\'ve known a woman from my dance lesson for months, and for quite a while it seemed like there could be

something between us. We certainly enjoyed dancing together all the time. Then, a month or two ago things got weird

and she no longer enjoyed dancing with me at; would even refuse the odd time. Thus, we don\'t even speak any more;

no hello, no goodbye, nothing. I don\'t bother asking her to dance anymore since she refused me a week ago. Friday

night, she is leaving the club and she comes by to say goodbye to me, touches my arm and takes my hand for a brief

moment as part of the \"goodbye\". In my mind I am like, \"what is this?\" If it has anything to do with pheros,

all I can say is that I reduced the -none even more this week; just some APC, which is weaker than hell, as far as I

know. Still had the A1 and a tiny amount of EW.

Any thoughts, wise people? It may not sound like a \"big

deal\"; I know it\'s not a massive hit or something,
but at the same time it is significantly \"out of

character\" or outside of her normal behavior.

<hr /></blockquote>

I\'d forgo the

EW, if I were you. The poo-say smell on you is likely to be a turn-off to women.

<hr /></blockquote>

Some of you sure are against EW. That\'s fine I guess, but it seems that you do not even

read(or do not comprehend posts) that you reply to. If you read the above, and are capable of thinking rationally,

concluding that EW should be dumped is hardly a valid conclusion. From the above scenario, dump the -none would make

more sense.

MadMaxx

12-29-2003, 09:34 PM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
I do think it can, on certain occasions, work that way with copulins, as I

think I\'ve expereinced it.

<hr /></blockquote>

We know that women have

different taste in men. I guess some women would go for that. I would think it would give you a less than manly

aura. Just thinking about it seems less than masculine. I am the type of woman that gets turned on by the extra dose

of none. The more manly the better. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

You have always done

well with the women. Why do you think it was the EW that did the trick?

<hr /></blockquote>

Elana, I think you are assuming that if a man uses a touch of EW he is walking around all

out reeking of pussy. Like Dr.Smell I have all kinds of experience with social validation. Why, you ask? It is

simple, you just compare life with it and without it. Without it, I am the lone wolf type that women are not

comfortable with(maybe even read me as the sexual predator type); with it, women are very comfortable and love being

around be, like being touchy sometimes, hugging.....

As for manly versus not manly, as I said the EW user is

not walking around reeking like pussy if he is wise(which I am). I am unmistakably masculine, alpha male-like

probably. According to a couple of my female friends that I can discuss these things with, they say I absolutely

exude an overwhelming maleness and sexual aura that probably blows away some women. Thus, the idea is a \"whiff\"

of copulins within a poweful aura of sexy masculinity. Maybe every guy cannot get away with it, because we are all

different; physically, chemically, and personality, BUT for some of us, we do not only \"get away with it\", but

can enhance our sexual aura. The last woman I hooked up with told me that she couldn\'t even be in my close

presence without literally soaking herself......hardly sounds like she mistook me for a piece of pussy, and hardly

sounds like she wasn\'t turned on by me. And no, she is NOT bisexual, so don\'t even bring up that one.

Pancho1188

12-29-2003, 09:41 PM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
According to a couple of my female friends that I

can discuss these things with, they say I absolutely exude an overwhelming maleness and sexual aura that probably

blows away some women.

<hr /></blockquote>

Wow. I am blown away by just the very

mention of such a quality.

I\'d say I exude the overwhelming feminine homosexual aura that probably blows away

some men and women. I need to get rid of that... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

MadMaxx

12-30-2003, 12:10 AM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
According to a couple of my female friends that I can discuss these things

with, they say I absolutely exude an overwhelming maleness and sexual aura that probably blows away some

women.

<hr /></blockquote>

Wow. I am blown away by just the very mention of such a

quality.

I\'d say I exude the overwhelming feminine homosexual aura that probably blows away some men and

women. I need to get rid of that... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

<hr

/></blockquote>

I\'m glad that you are blown away. I like to impress people.

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

I think it is actually something that I have refined. I think

it\'s part natural, part phero induced, and partly due to cultivation of a certain attitude and/or certain body

language. I am not trying to be arrogant here, because I have never been so, and generally am not a really

\"confident\" person in that department. When my one friend commented on it, it was semi-unsolicited and it was

the first time I had been told. We are both Western(caucasian) and both do Latin dancing in Asia. I was asking her

opinion on why certian women here have serious problems dancing with me, and behave in strange ways. She practically

laughed, and was like, \"sh!t, you are like, so...MALE/MASCULINE(don\'t remember which), most of the poor girls

have probably never been in the arms of something like you before, what do you expect?\" I was like, oh.

EXIT63

12-30-2003, 04:16 AM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
most of the poor girls have probably never been in

the arms of something like you before, what do you expect?\"

<hr /></blockquote>

Man,

you\'re really bowling them over!

Such incredible manliness must be truly hard to resist. I can\'t imagine

the consequences when they experience you great intellect.

You truly are the total package.

Just

remember...With great power comes great responsibility!

Elana

12-30-2003, 04:27 AM

Post deleted

by belgareth

EXIT63

12-30-2003, 04:36 AM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
I am soaked just reading that post about how great

you are.

<hr /></blockquote>

You should try sitting on a towel!

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

belgareth

12-30-2003, 06:32 AM

There have been a

few discussions about cultural and racial difference in response to pheromones here and JVK has done some writing on

the subject. I know from my own experience that a male wearing EW in the southern US is not going to get good

results. Yet MM seems to be getting results with Asian women while using copulins. Is it posible that the

cultural/racial differences make adding copulins to the mix a good option in those areas? Tom and other asians have

complained of no results wearing conventional men\'s pheromones, maybe they should try adding a touch of cops to

their mix and see if they get the different results.

Kari

12-30-2003, 06:44 AM

MadMaxx

12-31-2003, 02:04 AM

belgareth

12-31-2003, 02:12 AM

MadMaxx

12-31-2003, 02:39 AM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
There have

been a few discussions about cultural and racial difference in response to pheromones here and JVK has done some

writing on the subject. I know from my own experience that a male wearing EW in the southern US is not going to get

good results. Yet MM seems to be getting results with Asian women while using copulins. Is it posible that the

cultural/racial differences make adding copulins to the mix a good option in those areas? Tom and other asians have

complained of no results wearing conventional men\'s pheromones, maybe they should try adding a touch of cops to

their mix and see if they get the different results.

<hr /></blockquote>

What

happens to men who wear EW in the Southern U.S?
Women don\'t like it, or, men beat the life out of them?

<hr /></blockquote>

Women don\'t like it.

<hr /></blockquote>

I am not questioning you, but could you please explain how you know that they don\'t like it?

What gives it away?

belgareth

12-31-2003, 03:59 AM

MadMaxx

12-31-2003, 04:16 AM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
<blockquote>Quote:<hr

/>
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
There have been a few discussions about cultural and racial difference in

response to pheromones here and JVK has done some writing on the subject. I know from my own experience that a male

wearing EW in the southern US is not going to get good results. Yet MM seems to be getting results with Asian women

while using copulins. Is it posible that the cultural/racial differences make adding copulins to the mix a good

option in those areas? Tom and other asians have complained of no results wearing conventional men\'s pheromones,

maybe they should try adding a touch of cops to their mix and see if they get the different results.

<hr

/></blockquote>

What happens to men who wear EW in the Southern U.S?
Women don\'t like

it, or, men beat the life out of them?

<hr /></blockquote>

Women don\'t like it.

<hr /></blockquote>

I am not questioning you, but could you please explain how you

know that they don\'t like it? What gives it away?

<hr /></blockquote>

Mostly just

being avoided by women. I spend a lot of time in various offices and work with a lot of women of all ages. Some that

would normally visit while I worked on their computers became cold and left the room. One lady who normally spends

her time flirting with me while I work got downright bitchy. I have had negative reactions to male pheromones also

but not with any consistancy and I have usually associated them with menstrual cycles.

<hr

/></blockquote>

Very interesting data you have there. I am trying to think about it to see

whether I have noticed anything similar. First of all, it seems to me that women I see regularly, meaning certain

co-workers and women that I do dance lessons with twice a week are quite consistent; most of them anyway. Mind you,

I have been using EW for a long time, so it is not like a sudden change for them. I of course do have negative

experiences/effects on women, but I chalk most of them up to too much -none. The reason I blame -none is that

generally speaking at those times, I am intimidating as hell to the men also, with a few exceptions. Having said

that, I MAY have noticed adverse effects on women recently, but I don\'t know whether I can blame copulins

entirely. In my opinion it is a \"deadly\" combinations of things. That combination is: a women who is interested

in you, the presence of EW, AND the presence/suspicion of another woman that may \"be yours\". My theory for me is

that EW alone may work for social validation, BUT if there is some other evidence/idea of a concrete woman(new

girlfriend or sex partner), an interested women may go ballistic. This MAY have happened to me recently, but of

course I can\'t know for sure what is happening in the mind of any woman.

MadMaxx

12-31-2003, 04:22 AM

Another thing related

to copulins. Once again,I can\'t be sure whether it is realted to copulins, but I have had interesing experience

where a woman I hardly know starts talking about things like problems related to her period; VERY unusual in my neck

of the woods. Similar thing from a 17-year old student recently. I do NOT think it is normal to bring up the topic

of periods with your male teacher, especially with the culture I am talking about, or maybe any culture, I don\'t

know.

belgareth

12-31-2003, 06:22 AM

For the first 7-8

months I used mones, I kept a fairly detailed log of use and results. The negative reactions to copulins was

definate. After the handful of uses I gave my mix to a lady friend and haven\'t added cops to any further mxes. My

friend did report some interesting results but I am not sure of her methodolgy and am hesitant to consider them

valid.

Pancho1188

12-31-2003, 08:39 AM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
According to

a couple of my female friends that I can discuss these things with, they say I absolutely exude an overwhelming

maleness and sexual aura that probably blows away some women.

<hr /></blockquote>

Wow.

I am blown away by just the very mention of such a quality.

I\'d say I exude the overwhelming feminine

homosexual aura that probably blows away some men and women. I need to get rid of that...

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

<hr /></blockquote>

Actually

Pancho-- you are adorable. If you were in your late forties, I\'d have a piece of you!

<hr

/></blockquote>

Yeah.....the age barrier......I\'ve NEVER broken that

before....really.....never been with an older woman before.........seriously........ummmmm.....yeah... ..never been

with a 40+ woman before............hot, mature women.....never.............ummm........yeah...... ...I\'m going to

go now..... *Walks away* /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

Pancho1188

12-31-2003, 08:46 AM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
There have been a few discussions about cultural

and racial difference in response to pheromones here and JVK has done some writing on the subject. I know from my

own experience that a male wearing EW in the southern US is not going to get good results. Yet MM seems to be

getting results with Asian women while using copulins. Is it posible that the cultural/racial differences make

adding copulins to the mix a good option in those areas? Tom and other asians have complained of no results wearing

conventional men\'s pheromones, maybe they should try adding a touch of cops to their mix and see if they get the

different results.

<hr /></blockquote>

My psychological opinion (and maybe those

with the psych and soc degrees can back me up on this one) is that pheromones probably work differently on different

cultures due to what is socially desirable in that particular culture. If women are supposed to be feminine and

elegant, pheromones that accentuate that quality probably work well. If men are supposed to be strong, masculine,

and intimidating, the -none might work well. My GUESS would be that culture is more important than race due to

social norms in the culture, but I wouldn\'t totally count it out. I could give more examples, but I think you

get the idea. Wearing -mones that accentuate desired characteristics of a sex in that particular group may help you

be successful. It may not generalize to whole cultures, but probably to social circles of people with similar

tastes. Let me know what you think.

Pancho

belgareth

12-31-2003, 08:54 AM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
There have been a few discussions about cultural and racial difference in

response to pheromones here and JVK has done some writing on the subject. I know from my own experience that a male

wearing EW in the southern US is not going to get good results. Yet MM seems to be getting results with Asian women

while using copulins. Is it posible that the cultural/racial differences make adding copulins to the mix a good

option in those areas? Tom and other asians have complained of no results wearing conventional men\'s pheromones,

maybe they should try adding a touch of cops to their mix and see if they get the different results.

<hr

/></blockquote>

My psychological opinion (and maybe those with the psych and soc degrees

can back me up on this one) is that pheromones probably work differently on different cultures due to what is

socially desirable in that particular culture. If women are supposed to be feminine and elegant, pheromones that

accentuate that quality probably work well. If men are supposed to be strong, masculine, and intimidating, the

-none might work well. My GUESS would be that culture is more important than race due to social norms in the

culture, but I wouldn\'t totally count it out. I could give more examples, but I think you get the idea. Wearing

-mones that accentuate desired characteristics of a sex in that particular group may help you be successful. It may

not generalize to whole cultures, but probably to social circles of people with similar tastes. Let me know what

you think.

Pancho

<hr /></blockquote>

Pancho

It is an area well worth

investigating. The guys in asian countries who complain of no hits might find it worth a test to see if cops make a

difference for them.

DrSmellThis

12-31-2003, 10:46 AM

I never drew hard

and fast conclusions, but I always looked at application logically -- small amounts to hands, face, crotch and butt,

in imitation of the real thing, and I would apply the night before, as I felt conversions were happening that would

make the overall effect more male - like I was geting some rather than \"was one.\" I would also just apply every

once in a while, and would certainly never reapply before showering with soap (which usually doesn\'t happen every

day, in my case). So those were my application methods.

Then I felt response was best from women I didn\'t know

and worst from women I knew well. It was horrible from my girlfriend. Secondly, it was greater from bisexual women.

Third, the response overall was very inconsistent, possibly due to the variety of women I\'d meet. Someone like

Elana, who seems very hetero and hormonal, probably has a lot of testosterone as well as a lot of estrogen running

through her (hence the apparent horniness, if I may be so bold). (I don\'t mean anything personal by this, but am

just picking someone everyone knows) She would need someone with a more stereotypical male biochemocal profile to

compliment her own, which is strongly female, but also has male characteristics. The south is a very \"men are men

and women are women\" culture, so cops would presumably also get a poor reception there.

However, feminine men

and \"boy toy\" types definitely have their share of female adherents, adherents who might be more receptive to

cops.

The other desirable effect of cops is to make the wearer feel good. But I\'d think applying too often

might cause someone to get physically acclimated, as if their biology was aware he was \"getting more than

enough\', and it was time to \"quit bringing them in,\" thus screwing up his natural phero profile. (I always

assume the body has wisdom)

My overall point is that thinking biologically might help one make the best decisions

about using copulins.

DrSmellThis

12-31-2003, 10:58 AM

I should also add

that women who are ovulating should respond best to copulins, and those near menses the worst, as menstruating women

tend to \"flock together\", and cops represent ovulation. The ovulation profile put out by the copulins would

theoretically \"pressure\" a near-menstruating women to ovulate (remember the dorm study), and would not therefore

be \"friendly\" to her current biology.

So there are a lot of likely variables at work.

MadMaxx

12-31-2003, 08:25 PM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
There have been a few discussions about cultural and racial difference in

response to pheromones here and JVK has done some writing on the subject. I know from my own experience that a male

wearing EW in the southern US is not going to get good results. Yet MM seems to be getting results with Asian women

while using copulins. Is it posible that the cultural/racial differences make adding copulins to the mix a good

option in those areas? Tom and other asians have complained of no results wearing conventional men\'s pheromones,

maybe they should try adding a touch of cops to their mix and see if they get the different results.

<hr

/></blockquote>

My psychological opinion (and maybe those with the psych and soc degrees

can back me up on this one) is that pheromones probably work differently on different cultures due to what is

socially desirable in that particular culture. If women are supposed to be feminine and elegant, pheromones that

accentuate that quality probably work well. If men are supposed to be strong, masculine, and intimidating, the

-none might work well. My GUESS would be that culture is more important than race due to social norms in the

culture, but I wouldn\'t totally count it out. I could give more examples, but I think you get the idea. Wearing

-mones that accentuate desired characteristics of a sex in that particular group may help you be successful. It may

not generalize to whole cultures, but probably to social circles of people with similar tastes. Let me know what

you think.

Pancho

<hr /></blockquote>

I have trouble forming any definite opinion

on your theory. It is currently being said in the mass media(whether that means anyting or not, I don\'t know),

that in my neck of the woods(Japan) the men are becoming more and more feminine all the time. By that, I believe

they are referring to things such as fashion/behavior, but also to a physical/hormonal thing. They blame social

factors as well as factors related to the physical environment; pollution even? The problem is that even if the

above is true, it doesn\'t allow us to conclude anything. Meaning, you could say that cops makes a guy like me

more like the \"normal\" guy in my society, and thus more acceptable, OR, you could argue that being more

\"male\" in such an environment would give a guy an advantage because he would stand out as a \"real man\".

MadMaxx

12-31-2003, 08:47 PM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
I never drew hard and fast conclusions, but I

always looked at application logically -- small amounts to hands, face, crotch and butt, in imitation of the real

thing, and I would apply the night before, as I felt conversions were happening that would make the overall effect

more male - like I was geting some rather than \"was one.\" I would also just apply every once in a while, and

would certainly never reapply before showering with soap (which usually doesn\'t happen every day, in my case). So

those were my application methods.

Then I felt response was best from women I didn\'t know and worst from women

I knew well. It was horrible from my girlfriend. Secondly, it was greater from bisexual women. Third, the response

overall was very inconsistent, possibly due to the variety of women I\'d meet. Someone like Elana, who seems very

hetero and hormonal, probably has a lot of testosterone as well as a lot of estrogen running through her (hence the

apparent horniness, if I may be so bold). (I don\'t mean anything personal by this, but am just picking someone

everyone knows) She would need someone with a more stereotypical male biochemocal profile to compliment her own,

which is strongly female, but also has male characteristics. The south is a very \"men are men and women are

women\" culture, so cops would presumably also get a poor reception there.

However, feminine men and \"boy

toy\" types definitely have their share of female adherents, adherents who might be more receptive to cops.

The

other desirable effect of cops is to make the wearer feel good. But I\'d think applying too often might cause

someone to get physically acclimated, as if their biology was aware he was \"getting more than enough\', and it

was time to \"quit bringing them in,\" thus screwing up his natural phero profile. (I always assume the body has

wisdom)

My overall point is that thinking biologically might help one make the best decisions about using

copulins.

<hr /></blockquote>

Your comment about bisexual women was interesting. I

do know that some of the women who respond to me very well do not appear to be in that camp at all. However, now

that I think of it, a couple of women that respond to me very well COULD be in that camp. I do not know for sure

whether they ar bi or lesbian or neither. All I know is that from their public relationship with a couple of other

women, I have often really wondered whether they might be bi or lesbian. And, correct me if you disagree, but you

don\'t necessarily have to be a \"practicing\" bisexual to be \"bisexual.\"

Your last paragraph is also

interesting. I know cops make me feel better; more relaxed, mellow, and less irritable(unlike the male who is

sexualy frustrated because he isn\'t getting enough). However, though I generally like your idea of the body being

\"smart\", I don\'t know about your last idea. For instance, does a male ever feel like he is getting enough?

The only time I feel I am getting enough is if I am getting it daily, AND from the right person, not just anyone. Of

course you are talking about something physiological in the body, so you are saying that even if I don\'t think I

am getting enough, my body thinks so, so it tries to stop attracting females? Maybe, but hard to evaluate isn\'t

it? I know I have definitely not ceased to be attracting females, but I guess the question would be, \"would I be

doing an even better job of attracting them if I lessened my body\'s exposure to copulins? Maybe I should try it.

Sorry, for the ramble. I guess that is about what it amounts to.

Personally, I am starting to think that cops

are the ultimate double-edged sword. For example, too much exposure screws things up, but no exposure and you are

also screwing things up because you may be coming across a desparate male who is looking for a piece of anything

because he isn\'t getting enough.

DrSmellThis

01-01-2004, 04:55 AM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
And, correct me if you disagree, but you don\'t

necessarily have to be a \"practicing\" bisexual to be \"bisexual.\"

<hr /></blockquote>
I hope so. Otherwise maybe I turn gay if I don\'t get laid.

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
However, though I generally like your idea of the body being \"smart\", I

don\'t know about your last idea. For instance, does a male ever feel like he is getting enough? The only time I

feel I am getting enough is if I am getting it daily, AND from the right person, not just anyone. Of course you are

talking about something physiological in the body, so you are saying that even if I don\'t think I am getting

enough, my body thinks so, so it tries to stop attracting females?

<hr /></blockquote>
Yep -- exactly what I was trying to say.

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Maybe, but hard to evaluate isn\'t it?

<hr /></blockquote>
What I have in mind are studies that show drops in testosterone for men living with women, or

with high exposure to the same woman. One plausible way of interpreting this result is to imagine the body thinking

that it needs to adjust it\'s biology, to suit new purposes of nesting rather than hunting females. This would

happen, presumably, even if one still wanted to hunt females, and felt sex was in short supply. These other things

would still have their own, positive effect on the androgens, of course. But get where I\'m going with

this? I think your body knows and lets it be known.

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
I guess the question would be, \"would I be doing an even better job of

attracting them if I lessened my body\'s exposure to copulins? Maybe I should try it.

<hr /></blockquote>
Do you owe it to yourself? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif Experimentation

rules the day in my day planner. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Personally, I am starting to think that cops are the ultimate double-edged

sword. For example, too much exposure screws things up, but no exposure and you are also screwing things up because

you may be coming across a desparate male who is looking for a piece of anything because he isn\'t getting enough.

<hr /></blockquote>
I don\'t think there\'s any mating disadvantage to having a

body that emits lots of pent up, gaseous testosterone metabolite into the biosphere. I think there\'s some

pheromonal communication there that makes women\'s bodies think, \"Awww, let me just take care of this poor

baby\'s problem, kissy kissy!\" /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif Of course,

that\'s only one of two gaseous emmisions we men make frequently that make women weak in the knees.

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif But getting laid reglarly does carry the evolutionary advantage of

keeping one\'s sperm healthy (but masturbating once or twice a week does this too), which make\'s one more

likely to produce offspring. I\'d be shocked if this was not also reflected in our pheromone profiles, however, as

I\'ve personally noticed something like this. So we have two opposing forces, and a balanced dynamic therefore

seems to be the thing to \"shoot for\". /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif So maybe once or twice

a week to experiment? Maybe you can figure it out for us. I haven\'t used copulins lately myself, but maybe

you\'ll inspire me to try again.

MadMaxx

01-01-2004, 05:46 AM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
And, correct me if you disagree, but you don\'t necessarily have to be a

\"practicing\" bisexual to be \"bisexual.\"

<hr /></blockquote>
I hope so. Otherwise

maybe I turn gay if I don\'t get laid.

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
However,

though I generally like your idea of the body being \"smart\", I don\'t know about your last idea. For instance,

does a male ever feel like he is getting enough? The only time I feel I am getting enough is if I am getting it

daily, AND from the right person, not just anyone. Of course you are talking about something physiological in the

body, so you are saying that even if I don\'t think I am getting enough, my body thinks so, so it tries to stop

attracting females?

<hr /></blockquote>
Yep -- exactly what I was trying to

say.

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Maybe, but hard to evaluate isn\'t

it?

<hr /></blockquote>
What I have in mind are studies that show drops in testosterone

for men living with women, or with high exposure to the same woman. One plausible way of interpreting this result is

to imagine the body thinking that it needs to adjust it\'s biology, to suit new purposes of nesting rather than

hunting females. This would happen, presumably, even if one still wanted to hunt females, and felt sex was in short

supply. These other things would still have their own, positive effect on the androgens, of course. But get

where I\'m going with this? I think your body knows and lets it be known.

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
I guess the question would be, \"would I be doing an even better job of

attracting them if I lessened my body\'s exposure to copulins? Maybe I should try it.

<hr /></blockquote>
Do you owe it to yourself? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif Experimentation rules

the day in my day planner. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Personally, I am starting to think that cops are the ultimate double-edged

sword. For example, too much exposure screws things up, but no exposure and you are also screwing things up because

you may be coming across a desparate male who is looking for a piece of anything because he isn\'t getting enough.

<hr /></blockquote>
I don\'t think there\'s any mating disadvantage to having a

body that emits lots of pent up, gaseous testosterone metabolite into the biosphere. I think there\'s some

pheromonal communication there that makes women\'s bodies think, \"Awww, let me just take care of this poor

baby\'s problem, kissy kissy!\" /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif Of course,

that\'s only one of two gaseous emmisions we men make frequently that make women weak in the knees.

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif But getting laid reglarly does carry the evolutionary advantage of

keeping one\'s sperm healthy (but masturbating once or twice a week does this too), which make\'s one more

likely to produce offspring. I\'d be shocked if this was not also reflected in our pheromone profiles, however, as

I\'ve personally noticed something like this. So we have two opposing forces, and a balanced dynamic therefore

seems to be the thing to \"shoot for\". /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif So maybe once or twice

a week to experiment? Maybe you can figure it out for us. I haven\'t used copulins lately myself, but maybe

you\'ll inspire me to try again.

<hr /></blockquote>

This whole copulins thing is

getting a big heavy. I think I am going to start \"experimenting\" again; meaning, not using them sometimes. As it

is, I been using them for months upon months on a daily basis.

Elana

01-01-2004, 06:28 AM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
This whole copulins thing is getting a big heavy. I

think I am going to start \"experimenting\" again; meaning, not using them sometimes. As it is, I been using them

for months upon months on a daily basis.

<hr /></blockquote>

Great idea! and it only

took you 400 posts to come up with it. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

MadMaxx

01-01-2004, 09:42 PM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
This whole copulins thing is getting a big heavy. I think I am going to

start \"experimenting\" again; meaning, not using them sometimes. As it is, I been using them for months upon

months on a daily basis.

<hr /></blockquote>

Great idea! and it only took you 400

posts to come up with it. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

<hr /></blockquote>

Cute. But not. You seem to refuse to accept the idea that I do get positive effects from them.

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Icarus

01-02-2004, 01:13 AM

I like the smell of

copulins.

Elana

01-02-2004, 07:44 AM

Post deleted

by belgareth

Friendly1

01-02-2004, 05:01 PM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Friendly1- I bet you get cheated on all of the

time. Karma

<hr /></blockquote>

Don\'t take that intuition to any casinos,

sweetheart. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

But I hang with a lot of young ladies and they

switch out boyfriends faster than Liz Taylor goes through husbands.

Friendly1

01-02-2004, 05:06 PM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
BUT some of these guys that come on the forum

quoting crap out of these manuals, come off as tools. It\'s such a joke.

<hr /></blockquote>

I wonder which manual I was supposed to be quoting from? I have an enquiring mind. I want to

know what I\'ve supposedly been reading here.

Friendly1

01-02-2004, 05:09 PM

Friendly1

01-02-2004, 05:16 PM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
You guys should know that many men on this forum

agree with what Ash said. Most of the guys that I talk with by PM or email agree him. They are just not speaking out

on this thread. I aint scared.

<hr /></blockquote>

And here I thought the old \"silent

masses stand behind me\" argument had died a long time ago.

Well, Elana, as one confirmed 50-year-old-virgin to

another, I salute you for rallying the masses. They must be dedicated loyalists to have found yet another cause to

stand behind so ardently.

Friendly1

01-02-2004, 05:20 PM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Some of you sure are against EW. That\'s fine I

guess, but it seems that you do not even read(or do not comprehend posts) that you reply to. If you read the above,

and are capable of thinking rationally, concluding that EW should be dumped is hardly a valid conclusion. From the

above scenario, dump the -none would make more sense.

<hr /></blockquote>

You should

really go back and read your own posts objectively. I, for one, have advised you to stop the copulins because you

have reported bad results.

But you can test the whole thing as often as you wish. Just go for two weeks without

the copulins and then two weeks with them. Do that for a couple of months and keep a journal (not here -- some

people would complain you\'re sharing too much, and some would complain you\'re not sharing enough). At the end

of the two months, you should have enough information to draw your own objective conclusion.

Elana

01-02-2004, 05:39 PM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
BUT some of these guys that come on the forum quoting crap out of these

manuals, come off as tools. It\'s such a joke.

<hr /></blockquote>

I wonder which

manual I was supposed to be quoting from? I have an enquiring mind. I want to know what I\'ve supposedly been

reading here.

<hr /></blockquote>

I wonder what makes you think I was talking

about you. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Sexyredhead

01-02-2004, 06:43 PM

Perhaps the reason

most of the women on this forum are against the idea of men using copulins is that we are mainly from the South, or

we like manly men.

Maybe copulins would work for men in places that don\'t have the same cultural ideals.

Maybe not. I don\'t know.

But for this southern female, I\'m pretty sure if a man I was interested/involved

in came around me smelling like somebody else\'s pu$$y, even if it was in the miniscule amounts supposedly being

applied (that we have to remember are still stronger than what is usually perceived), he\'d get the same reaction

Belgarth got. I\'m not messing with any other woman\'s man, and my man better not be smelling like anybody

else\'s pu$$y.

Elana

01-02-2004, 06:48 PM

Pancho1188

01-02-2004, 07:15 PM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Perhaps the reason most of the women on this forum

are against the idea of men using copulins is that we are mainly from the South, or we like manly men.

Maybe

copulins would work for men in places that don\'t have the same cultural ideals. Maybe not. I don\'t know.

But for this southern female, I\'m pretty sure if a man I was interested/involved in came around me smelling

like somebody else\'s pu$$y, even if it was in the miniscule amounts supposedly being applied (that we have to

remember are still stronger than what is usually perceived), he\'d get the same reaction Belgarth got. I\'m not

messing with any other woman\'s man, and my man better not be smelling like anybody else\'s pu$$y.

<hr

/></blockquote>

Bad joke of the day:
I\'ll make sure I never smell like anyone

else\'s pu$$y, and you make sure I always smell like yours.

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Seriously, though, I would agree. If you really want to get

\"social validation\", find a female friend or relative (think ~cousin, second cousin, etc. if you have one...I

know I have a cousin that a lot of my friends thought was so hot when we\'d have get-togethers back in HS) and

hang out with them in public. Nothing makes a woman think you\'re attractive than you actually being with a

woman...especially an attractive woman...

However, like any other product, it may or may not work for you.

Whatever works for you, man... Whatever works. Who cares what we think if you\'re in bed with some hot

girl because of it? I know I wouldn\'t give a doggy fizzle televizzle fishizzle...or something like that.

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

DrSmellThis

01-03-2004, 02:01 AM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
You seem to refuse to accept the idea that I do get positive effects from

them.

<hr /></blockquote>

Not true. All anyone has to do is read your posts on

how soaking wet women get around you and how they want to rape you to know that whatever you are doing is working

for you.

<hr /></blockquote>Jeez, Elana.

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

DrSmellThis

01-03-2004, 08:57 AM

You may be right, SRH,

but how would you know? How would any of you ladies? The reactions we\'re talking of aren\'t at all conscious.

There is no way you would consciously detect EW at the strengths I\'ve worn it (also, it\'s been mixed in

a perfume designed to conceal its scent). I\'m hoping that others here experiment with EW in the same way, as

I\'ve heard guys say you can\'t smell it after a while (this scent men are sensitive to, I think).

Put it

this way. Have any of you ever been really physically attracted to a man, and found out later he has a girlfriend,

or sleeps around with one or more people? Or have you ever thought to yourselves, \"All the good ones are taken\"?

These would be the kinds of common experiences to look to for honest information, not to whether or not you

consciously want some man to smell like a pussy. Of course, almost no one would admit to that kind of thing. Men

also wouldn\'t admit to wanting a woman who \"smelled like\" male genitalia. But an ex-lover tells me she gets

hit on by men noticeably moreso in the period of time after being with a man and not showering.

So far the

data indicates that both men and women produce the same pheromones, but in different amounts (e.g., butyric acid,

from EW, for sure). So the idea of excluding \"cross-sexed\" pheromones shouldn\'t be so straightforward for us

to accept.

Elana

01-03-2004, 09:11 AM

I know because the

subconscious scent of a woman would not make me feel comfortable and trusting of man. I don\'t have that

competitive thing that you all keep talking about. I don\'t care what other women think about the guy I am

interested in. That validation thing sounds insane to me. In fact, I would prefer that other women do not find the

guy I am attracted to, attractive.

DrSmellThis

01-03-2004, 09:30 AM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
I know because the subconscious scent of a woman

would not make me feel comfortable and trusting of man.

<hr /></blockquote>
I still

don\'t understand how you\'d know this, Elana, if the olfactory stimulation was truly beneath your conscious

recognition. This just begs repetition of the same question. Perhaps someone would like to address the issues I

raised.

Elana

01-03-2004, 09:37 AM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
I know

because the subconscious scent of a woman would not make me feel comfortable and trusting of man.

<hr

/></blockquote>
I still don\'t understand how you\'d know this, if the olfactory

stimulation was truly beneath your conscious recognition. This just begs repetition of the same question. Can

someone please help here?

<hr /></blockquote>

You believers have been saying that

the point of cops would be for social validation. That is the opposite \"feeling\" that I would want to have. Why

does what I said not make sense to you? You are trying to create this feeling with your cops. I don\'t like the

feeling that you are trying to create.

The consensus is they don\'t work. I think that it was a fluke that they

worked for you because you tend to get women with no problems. Madmaxx certainly didn\'t prove that they work for

him with his posts about being ignored and scared women. Who else said that they worked for them?

Elana

01-03-2004, 09:47 AM

Men are notorious for being

competitive. Should women start using large amounts of synthetic testosterone for the social validation theory to

work for them?

DrSmellThis

01-03-2004, 09:48 AM

Ahh. So, granted, you

would not like the feeling that goes with thinking or realizing a man is popular with other ladies. But this thought

or realization would not be there, and neither would the feeling you have in mind. All that higher cognitive

processing, and the feelings resulting from it, would be bypassed in this mammalian model. You\'d just have the

feeling of being very physically attracted to the man and not knowing why. That is the feeling we\'d seek to

create.

DrSmellThis

01-03-2004, 09:50 AM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Men are notorious for being competitive. Should

women start using large amounts of synthetic testosterone for the social validation theory to work for them?

<hr /></blockquote>What do you think is in NPA/Edge for women?

Elana

01-03-2004, 09:52 AM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
You\'d just have the feeling of being very physically attracted to the

man and not knowing why. That is the feeling we\'d seek to create.

<hr /></blockquote>

I think the feeling that you would be creating would be less manly than if you didn\'t use

the cops. Some women may like that. I would not like that. Some men are attracted to those buff female body

builders. To each his own.

DrSmellThis

01-03-2004, 09:54 AM

MadMaxx did not say

they never worked for him, as he\'s been trying to tell us \'till he\'s blue in the face!! I do wish folks

would listen to him, and show some respect. He said he\'s been having recent problems with women in his dance

class.

In fact, the data reported so far on copulins are inconclusive, despite the vociferousness of some

folk\'s emotions here.

Elana

01-03-2004, 09:56 AM

I deleted this post because

it isn\'t nice to accuse people of being a few beers short of a 6-pack or missing a few buttons on his remote

control. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Elana

01-03-2004, 09:59 AM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
I\'ve found it fairly reliable that cops are well used with bi-women, but

it\'s like rolling the dice otherwise.

\"Do you want to smell like a woman today?\"

<hr

/></blockquote>

Even you aren\'t very convincing in this post.

DrSmellThis

01-03-2004, 10:07 AM

I would delete the last

flippant sentence in quotes if I had it to do over. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif

But I

stand by the inconsistent part. I detailed some of the factors after that, that I think are responsible for the

inconsistency. Inconsistencies in one\'s results are not usually good reasons to stop your project, as there may

be ways to reduce inconsistencies to a normal level. Most consistent successes were once inconsistent successes.

Elana

01-03-2004, 10:09 AM

Madmaxx is going to lay off

of them for a bit and we will see what conclusion he comes to.

DrSmellThis

01-03-2004, 10:18 AM

Sounds good to me.

belgareth

01-03-2004, 10:21 AM

I am in a unique

position to test mones. The nature of my business puts me in contact with the same women almost the same day of the

month, each month. In my experience the reactions were pretty consistant woman to woman and month to month. Not 100%

but close. There were a few women that seemed to give a positive reaction to cops but they were far outnumbered by

the ones who reacted negatively. When I have time I\'ll dig out my records and look for other factors, it might be

interesting to see if age or marital status impacted the results any. While I didn\'t specifically collect that

information it shouldn\'t be hard to produce it since I know most of the women pretty well.

I think it likely

that there are two basic reactions here. Some women are more likely to resent the smell of another woman on theirs

or any other man. They see him as a player. The other group views it as a challenge. Neither reaction needs to be

concious. Could it be that by nature some women are more likely to be monogamous than others and that contributes to

the different responses?

DrSmellThis

01-03-2004, 10:22 AM

Interesting question.

Sagacious1420

01-03-2004, 04:36 PM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Men are notorious for being competitive. Should women start using large

amounts of synthetic testosterone for the social validation theory to work for them?

<hr /></blockquote>What do you think is in NPA/Edge for women?

<hr /></blockquote>Doc-

Do you mean to imply that NPA/w contains T as a secret ingredient? Is this just a theory

or do you know something the rest of us don\'t? Just curious.

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

Icarus

01-03-2004, 04:42 PM

NPA/w contains extra

competitiveness.

Holmes

01-03-2004, 05:11 PM

The Williams sisters use it

a lot.

Holmes

Pancho1188

01-03-2004, 06:21 PM

I know when I had a

sniff from the girl next to me in the gym who was wearing that stuff, I benched 325 just to beat the guy next to me

who was benching 320...weakling. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

DrSmellThis

01-03-2004, 08:56 PM

No. I was just thinking

of the 16-androstenes, which come from testosterone. These include -none, which is in NPA/w.

Sagacious1420

01-03-2004, 09:06 PM

EXIT63

01-04-2004, 04:06 AM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
In fact, I would prefer that other women do not find the guy I am attracted

to, attractive.

<hr /></blockquote>

I am SO the guy for you!

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Elana

01-04-2004, 11:44 AM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
In fact, I

would prefer that other women do not find the guy I am attracted to, attractive.

<hr /></blockquote>

I am SO the guy for you! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

<hr

/></blockquote>

I just spit my water out.

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Pancho1188

01-04-2004, 11:50 AM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
In fact, I

would prefer that other women do not find the guy I am attracted to, attractive.

<hr /></blockquote>

I am SO the guy for you! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

<hr

/></blockquote>

I just spit my water out.

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

<hr /></blockquote>

Yeah, you just

described a lot of men. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif Whoops... Then again, I it\'s a

privilege to attract Queen Elana... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

MadMaxx

01-06-2004, 04:40 AM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
MadMaxx did not say they never worked for him, as he\'s been trying to tell

us \'till he\'s blue in the face!! I do wish folks would listen to him, and show some respect. He said he\'s

been having recent problems with women in his dance class.

In fact, the data reported so far on copulins are

inconclusive, despite the vociferousness of some folk\'s emotions here.

<hr /></blockquote>

Thank you Dr.Smell. Personally, I think you should give up on Elana. Your post a few posts back

was brilliant. Some people \"see\" what they want to see.Though of course they haven\'t SEEN anything. Yes, I

have been saying until I am blue in the face that I know cops give me very positive results. I report negative

results becuase of too much =NONE(combination of synthetic and natural recently) and the THICK, THICK people on the

forum understand, \"yes, cops are obviously bad). WTF! I reported ONE negative experience that MAY have been

because I used DIFFERENT copulins from what I usually use, and all the THICK naysayers concluded, \"there you go,

cops are definitely EVIL!\" WTF!

For the information of those who actually read and understand(not the others).

I have been continuing to experiment. There is no improvement in my relations when I do not use copulins, BUT there

is VERY clear improvemnet when I down the -NONE significantly. When I up the -none a bit, things go downhill again.

For the thick people, please don\'t attempt to blow my mind by concluding that EW is the cause of my

\"problems\" just because my \"problems\" decrease when I decrease the -none and leave the EW the same.

Also, though this is a -none issue rather than a cops issue, I have clearly noticed that there is a very clear

cut distinction between the women who are sensitive(positively and negatively) to my -none level. I have an

excellent testing ground; let\'s say close range dancing with the same ten women, a few times a week. Let\'s say

5 for example are totally thrilled to death with me no matter what I adjust up or down; EW or -none, or some other

blends such as Beaches. The only exception there being is that if I really go over the top on -none, yes, even the

positive reactors will get really submissive, edgy, whatever.....BUT this group has a WAY higher tolerance than the

few in the group of ten who can\'t handle the -none. The cops are NO problem for them unless they are WAY over the

top; and by way over the top I mean like 20 drops of EW at 300:1( I don\'t use anything near that anymore, but at

those levels some peoples\' motor skills are almost gone). Back to the -none sensitive group, they are not bitchy

to me or anything like that. They are actually friendly and seem attracted; love to talk to me or whatever, maybe

even flirt, BUT don\'t want to dance with me because they CANNOT. The only thing I am not sure of with the -none

being too much for them, is whether the problem is purely physical, or emotional, or both together. The physical is

definitely exhibited. A women who can normally do a just fine double or triple spin CANNOT do a double spin without

alomst falling on her head, if my -none is up just a bit. AND let\'s get something straight! I am not talking

about massive OD\'s here! I am talking about 2 drops of JB1 being too much for the group that reacts badly. That

would amount to .6 of a drop of NPA. I wouldn\'t dream of subjecting these women to multiple drops of something

like PI/M. The ones who can\'t handle -none are okay if I reduce things to just a couple of smears of APC(whatever

is in that?).

belgareth

01-06-2004, 05:27 AM

Madmax:

Could you

give us more of a breakdown on the types of women you see? Age, race, marital status, etc. Are there any cyclic

changes you notice? I am interested because your results so differed from my own. Dosages were roughly the same so

there should be some other factor(s) here that we are not seeing.

Elana

01-06-2004, 05:39 AM

Post deleted by

belgareth

MadMaxx

01-06-2004, 06:48 AM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
I regret deleting my post on your credibility, Madmaxx AKA The Lone Wolf. You

have so many people that think that you are Triallish that we have found ourselves (I am talking over 10 people from

this forum) in a chatroom just talking about your posts. They are amusing to say the least. Keep it up. It is very

entertaining.

I must change my panties now because just responding to you makes me wet.

<hr

/></blockquote>

Please explain Triallish. I am too stupid to know what that is. Now that I

know you are amused, I think I will stop posting. I am not here for your amusement, and I don\'t want to

contribute to your pleasures in life. If there are so many of you in the chat room that merely find my experiences

amusing, I am greatly disappointed. I had mistakenly thought there were a number of mature people here who shared a

common interest and belief in the power of pheromones(and copulins even if it isn\'t technically a phereomone). It

is very sad to see something so disappointing on this forum. Thank you for bringing this situation to my attention

Elana. I had thought you were the only ignorant individual kicking around. In retrospect, I guess I should have

known better. They say if you see one cockroach, you know there are actually 100 more....

Any serious people on

the forum can feel free to PM me anytime.

Elana

01-06-2004, 06:51 AM

Do a forum search on

TRIALL

No, I am not the only one that sees what you are all about.

Elana

01-06-2004, 06:54 AM

You and Drsmellthis don\'t

agree with what I am saying. You just called me ignorant. I am not threatening to leave the forum. If you think you

are so in the know about your mixes why are you going to leave? Many people don\'t agree with you. So?

I

never understood how people could bring something up on a public forum and then get upset if people didn\'t agree

with them. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Elana

01-06-2004, 07:20 AM

Madmaxx, It\'s very hard

for this issue not to get personal, because in the big picture the whole idea is an insult to many women. A few of

the men invent these theories about what turns women on. It\'s insulting to have to listen to a few guys tell us

these things that are so completely off base. To have to hear that a woman would be turned on by a man\'s scent of

another women, whether it be conscious or subconscious, is crazy. I don\'t even believe that Drsmellthis is a big

fan of the copulins theory. I just think that this turned into a female vs male debate and he had to stick up for

his side. I was just relieved to see that the majority of men here do not subscribe to this theory.

bjf

01-06-2004, 07:34 AM

MadMax

It is understandable

that you do not want to continue participating in an environment where people are supposedly making fun of you, this

forum can resemble Lord of the Flies at times, but once you let that get to you, members who appreciate your

contributions end up paying for it.

Anyway, I don\'t know what in the hell some people are mocking, but then

again, we\'ve only heard from one in that group.

Elana

01-06-2004, 07:42 AM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Anyway, I don\'t know what in the hell some people are mocking, but then

again, we\'ve only heard from one in that group.

<hr /></blockquote>

I could

pull up a few dozen old posts, but I will leave it as it is.

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
and the THICK, THICK people on the forum understand, \"yes, cops are

obviously bad). WTF!

<hr /></blockquote>

You mean the people that don\'t agree

with you? They are considered \"thick\"?

DrSmellThis

01-06-2004, 07:44 AM

I just don\'t find a resemblance

between Maxx and Triall. I do find that telling people that everybody talks badly about them behind their back, in

an attempt to make them feel pain, says more about the one saying that than it does the one being talked about!

It\'s one of the more viscious ways to use words, and it is ugly behavior.

Who cares if he is \"credible\"??

He\'s not running for office. It\'s flirtation stories from a dance class for goddsakes! I see no problem with

Maxx\'s posts in this thread.

On the other hand, gossiping for power to hurt others is one of my least

favorite traits. As a child therapist, I\'d put it at age 12, and a dysfunctional 12 at that. It\'s really not

appropriate on this forum, and I would ask people to leave it in their pubescent chat rooms.

Elana

01-06-2004, 07:48 AM

I admit....I feel a bit bad for

saying it. Had he not quoted it, I would have deleted it.

bjf

01-06-2004, 07:49 AM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
To have to hear that a woman would be turned on by a man\'s scent of

another women, whether it be conscious or subconscious, is crazy

<hr /></blockquote>

Elana, I understand why you would not want your gender to be portrayed as weak-minded individuals who all of a

sudden chase what another chick has decided to screw, but you are looking at it with a closed mind.

First off, a

woman\'s view of a man does tend to improve if she knows that other woman like that. I hope you do not want to

dispute that, but as men, many of us see how a woman\'s opinion can change when all of a sudden she sees something

like this or see highly attractive female(s) who are friends or ex\'s of a guy. Dabbling in cops is experimenting

with projecting this.

Also, after eating a girl out, many of us guys notice more glances from women. That is all

more reason to experiment with cops.

Also, perhaps cops may be able to subconsiously project to a woman that she

has already been with you sexually, if women have specific types of cops that ew or pcc may be, thus explaining why

some guys have gotten the \"I feel Like I have known you for so long\" reaction with them.

All of this stuff

has nothing to do with a man smelling like \"pu$$y\" or placing a pink dress and lip stick on him. If I put a

load of PI on you, would you remind me of hulk hogan? Hell no. You are not going to change someone\'s visual

feminity or masculinity.

Elana

01-06-2004, 07:52 AM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
but you are looking at it with a closed mind.

<hr /></blockquote>

No, I am looking at it through a woman\'s

mind.
bjf..I think you really believe what you just wrote. I think it sounds ridiculous. I guess we should go

back to the idea that it is best that women stay out of the main forum. It\'s just too frustrating and sad to see

how men think about us.

DrSmellThis

01-06-2004, 08:00 AM

To address another issue, there

is nothing insulting about a man with a theory about what turns women on (after all, men succeed at it frequently,

even moreso than women /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif) unless one believes in 1970\'s PC

pseudofeminist extremism. People disagreed, and they expressed their disagreement.

This is also the first time

this was brought up. Words can be used appropriately to resolve conflicts. I personally am fine with someone telling

me they feel insulted, and believe most men here would handle it just fine as well.

belgareth

01-06-2004, 08:04 AM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
but you

are looking at it with a closed mind.

<hr /></blockquote>

No, I am looking at it

through a woman\'s mind.
bjf..I think you really believe what you just wrote. I think it sounds ridiculous. I

guess we should go back to the idea that it is best that women stay out of the main forum. It\'s just too

frustrating and sad to see how men think about us.

<hr /></blockquote>

No, I think

it is more that it would be better if everybody stopped taking the discussion personally. Maybe Madmax is blowing

smoke or having fantasies but maybe he is on to something. In either case, it is an area from open discussion

without personal attacks.

bjf

01-06-2004, 08:07 AM

Elana:

On probability, who

has better genes, resources, etc?

Man A: Slept with/ Desired by a lot of women
Man B: Desired/ Slept with a few

women

Is it that ridiculous that

a) women would evolve to recognize a man more popular with females could give

them a better offspring?

b) the presence of female cops could indicate that a man is more likely to have Slept

with/ Desired by a lot of women, therefore indicating a higher than average probability of good genes?

I don\'t

think any of that is ridiculous. Whether someone wants a kid or not has nothing to do with it, sex was created by

nature for procreation. You may think that these things make us look stupid and weak, but we are all affected by

animal instincts that we do not necessarily find flattering.

Icarus

01-06-2004, 08:08 AM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
You are not going to change someone\'s visual feminity or masculinity.

<hr /></blockquote>

I thought that was what the whole concept of pheromones was all

about. Altering the perception that others receive about yourself.

Dress a woman as macho as you can, and

you will not find men swarmed around her. (unless she actually looks enough like Hulk Hogan to justify being

mistaken for him /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif )

I too am sometimes slightly embarrased

with some of the views expressed regarding women on this board from time to time, but would never presume to offer

anything more than my own personal opinion. Diff\'rent strokes f\'r diff\'rent folks. (\'n\' all

that)

Steve

\"Steve, The musics over, everyone\'s going home...\"
\"Just keep dancin\',

sweetums...................\"

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

bjf

01-06-2004, 08:57 AM

I thought that was what the

whole concept of pheromones was all about. Altering the perception that others receive about yourself.

Dress a

woman as macho as you can, and you will not find men swarmed around her. (unless she actually looks enough like Hulk

Hogan to justify being mistaken for him>>>

Dressing is still part of the visual aspect. Pheromones over

time teach us visual conditioning. Therefore, looking a certain way will create the same effect has exposure to

pheromones (erotic images). Most men look to masculine for a dosage of cops to overpower that effect. Most women

look to femine for a dosage of none to overpower a conditioning response (a response similar to exposure of female

pheromones), even if the none or cops have a slight influence.

Visual conditioning is very poweful and hard to

contradict, but then again, you can probably cause confusion in some people

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

belgareth

01-06-2004, 09:00 AM

I just deleted some

posts in this thread because I was asked too. There is a lot of good information here but things did get a little

out of line. If you feel it would be better that some of your own comments had not been made, please let me know and

I will take care of it.

Belgareth

Pancho1188

01-06-2004, 09:32 AM

I have a \"see the

other side\" itch that I need to scratch...

<blockquote>Quote:<hr

/>

a) women would evolve to recognize a man more popular with females could give them a better

offspring?

<hr /></blockquote>

Very good points in your posts, bjf,

however:
Correlation doesn\'t necessarily mean causation. Elana, IMO (I do not mean to put words in her

mouth), is simply arguing that women KNOW which men would give them better offspring (which they do, ask any

psychologist about the \"sweaty t-shirt test\") AND who would be good providers (hence making that man attractive

to them), and THAT\'S why they become popular with the ladies (NOT the other way around). As irrational as women

are sometimes, most still know exactly what they are doing (even if they don\'t admit to it or even know it

consciously). Women don\'t want to smell a \"nancy boy\" or a guy who\'s just gotten some, most of the time

they want a real, rugged, tough man (no matter how bad of news that is for me

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif) who can be a man

and take care of them...or just be there for eye candy (\"Dance for me, pool boy!!!\"). Therefore, she, in my

opinion, is saying that cops will just make you look like a fool and she is just trying to save you from

embarrassment...which could be true for some people...

On the other hand...

Since the beginning of

time, men have tried every crazy thing on the face of the earth......just for a woman. Everything from discovering

new lands (Virginia was named after a woman /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif) to starting wars

(Troy) and even committing suicide (Romeo and Juliet). The fact that men are trying to hard to get women, in my

opinion, should be the biggest compliment in the world. I don\'t know how a woman could ever get offended

by talks about men when all they are trying to do is......get women. Taking copulins is actually a sign saying,

\"Well, nothing we\'ve tried as men has worked...let\'s try to be more like women and then they\'ll see our

feminine sides and think we\'re attractive and would be a great emotional support.\" Hell, women like gay men,

and they\'re for the most part more feminine than usual. Imagine if a man acted gay but was straight. I actually

know a guy like this, and he has women all over him. So.....how is that so far-fetched? If women would just make

it easier to get them, men wouldn\'t have to be doing crazy things like wearing copulins to attract them.

However, since that will never happen, men will continue to find the \"edge\" over their competition to get the

girl of their dreams. There\'s nothing wrong with that. Copulins may or may not work. -None may or may not

work. Starting a war might get you killed. Are women worth the risk? Most men would say, \"hell

yeah...\"

until they got married, then \"hell no...\" /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

J/K.

All that being said, I still say, \"Whatever works for you, my friends...\"

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

DrSmellThis

01-06-2004, 09:44 AM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Correlation doesn\'t necessarily mean causation.

...Starting a war might get you killed. Are women worth the risk? Most men would say, \"hell

yeah...\"

until they got married, then \"hell no...\" /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif J/K.

<hr /></blockquote>
First of all, I as a psychology teacher always get a huge, raging

woody when I hear anyone say \"correlation does not imply causation\"! I always \"hammered that one home\" to my

students. So, congrats, Panch. Second, you one funny dude! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

franki

01-06-2004, 10:03 AM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />

On the other hand, gossiping for power to hurt others is one of my least

favorite traits. As a child therapist, I\'d put it at age 12, and a dysfunctional 12 at that. It\'s really not

appropriate on this forum, and I would ask people to leave it in their pubescent chat rooms.

<hr

/></blockquote>

If you only knew how much of that has been going on on this forum over the

years...... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

belgareth

01-06-2004, 10:07 AM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />

On the

other hand, gossiping for power to hurt others is one of my least favorite traits. As a child therapist, I\'d put

it at age 12, and a dysfunctional 12 at that. It\'s really not appropriate on this forum, and I would ask people

to leave it in their pubescent chat rooms.

<hr /></blockquote>

If you only knew

how much of that has been going on on this forum over the years......

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

<hr

/></blockquote>

It happens any time you get a group of people together. It seems to be a

normal part of human behavoir.

bjf

01-06-2004, 03:49 PM

True causation may not exist but the

association between the two makes experimenting with cops a not such a ludicrous thing, which I got the impression

some believed it was. You never know what subconcious messages and linkages can be sent and made by pheromones and

cops, regardless of whether the conscious works differently. It all comes down to what evolution has imprinted in

our brains, and the only way for us to know is by trying things out.

Elana

01-06-2004, 03:56 PM

Experiment until your heart is

content and then experiment some more. If you read through this thread you will see the results from many men that

have experimented.

bjf

01-06-2004, 04:01 PM

I already did a long time ago and got

no results wearing them solo, (except for some confused guys).

DrSmellThis

01-06-2004, 04:22 PM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />

On the

other hand, gossiping for power to hurt others is one of my least favorite traits. As a child therapist, I\'d put

it at age 12, and a dysfunctional 12 at that. It\'s really not appropriate on this forum, and I would ask people

to leave it in their pubescent chat rooms.

<hr /></blockquote>

If you only knew

how much of that has been going on on this forum over the years......

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

<hr

/></blockquote>Believe me, I\'ve had glimpses. It goes on everywhere. But lots of people

here make an effort to refrain from it, even when they are personally attacked. I admire that.

SwingerMD

01-06-2004, 07:43 PM

Did some playing around with PCC

a while back. Didn\'t really see hardly anything in the way of positive or negative rxns when on me.

I did

find a use for PCC later when I emptied the small bottle on my backpack by mistake. I found that whenever I stuck

my backpack in the coatroom at a dance hall, most of the guys/leads would hang out around then. (Sigh) Ahh . . . I

got so much pratice at those dances for several months. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 -SwingerMD

Friendly1

01-06-2004, 07:46 PM

My goodness. What a

tiff-taff.

Well, I, for one, would like to see MadMaxx talk about some of his supposed successes with copulins.

I may not be an expert in body language, but I had women in my dance class crawling all over me tonight. Back rubs.

Breast rubs. These are married women. It didn\'t hurt that only one other man showed up, but I usually get a

LOT of great attention in that class.

Body language speaks far louder to me than all the theories in the world.

These women love being around me. Part of it is because I laugh and joke with them, and tease them incessantly.

Part of it is because I usually dress well for those classes (well enough that other men start dressing up just to

compete with me for the attention I get). And part of it is the pheromones and the colognes I wear. The women love

it when I wear Creed with APC. And they\'ve gone totally over the top both times I walked in with The Edge,

Creed, and APC on. TOTALLY OVER THE TOP. The sexual hits were frequent and intense.

Ohmygodiwishtheywerentmarried!

I know which pheromones get me the best results. Tonight I walked in with weak,

wimpy little APC slathered all over my neck. I had a great time. I knew I would enjoy the evening.

Copulins? I

doubt they would EVER help a man get much of anything. I\'ve read some technical stuff on copulin research and

nothing in that work would lead me to believe they\'ll help a man get a woman\'s romantic attention. I am not

an expert but that is where I stand on the issue. And nothing MadMaxx or anyone else has posted here leads me to

believe otherwise.

Women DO like men who are popular with other women. But women seem (in general -- there are

always exceptions) to have an aversion to what they see as \"spoiled\" or \"used\" or \"marked\" goods. If

they know you\'re with someone, they lose interest fast. I\'ve got two at work whose interest took a nosedive

when I finally admitted I was dating someone on a regular basis. They may be starting to come back a little on the

interest trail, but they both have boyfriends now and if anything happens with them, it will probably wait until the

boyfriends have screwed up enough that the girls lose interest in them.

Ain\'t no copulins going to help with

THAT situation.

franki

01-06-2004, 07:49 PM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
These are married women.

<hr /></blockquote>

Hits from married women don\'t count..

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

They can be flirtatious in a whole different way than single

women, knowing that you know they are married.

Pancho1188

01-06-2004, 07:57 PM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
These are

married women.

<hr /></blockquote>

Hits from married women don\'t count..

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

They can be flirtatious in a whole different way than single

women, knowing that you know they are married.

<hr /></blockquote>

Ohhh, that really

eats me up inside... Women who know you know they are going out with someone will pour you with affection because

they know that you know nothing will possibly ever happen... My ex did that to me when we were just friends, she

had a bf, and I had a crush on her. We were hanging out, we had buddy-buddy closeness, and we even almost

cuddled.......and she was PERFECTLY comfortable because I was a good guy and she knew she didn\'t have to worry a

damn second about me trying to cross any lines...

Of course, I\'m not bitter.........

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

It can all be explained by Seinfeld:

Elaine: We just got

along *so* great.
Jerry: Of course you did. Everyone gets along great when there\'s no possibility of sex.

Friendly1

01-06-2004, 08:01 PM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
They can be flirtatious in a whole different way than single women, knowing

that you know they are married.

<hr /></blockquote>

I agree with you 100 per cent. On

the other hand, most married women don\'t go rubbing their breasts on all the men who aren\'t their husbands.

They get something out of the sensation, too, and there is no point in pretending it\'s just a game for them.

They still pick and choose whom they play with.

They may not be trying to sleep with me, but they ARE picking me

to rub up against.

And I don\'t want to get involved with married women anyway. Have done that. Don\'t want

to go there again.

Friendly1

01-06-2004, 08:14 PM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Ohhh, that really eats me up inside... Women who know you know they are

going out with someone will pour you with affection because they know that you know nothing will possibly ever

happen... My ex did that to me when we were just friends, she had a bf, and I had a crush on her. We were hanging

out, we had buddy-buddy closeness, and we even almost cuddled.......and she was PERFECTLY comfortable because I was

a good guy and she knew she didn\'t have to worry a damn second about me trying to cross any lines...

<hr

/></blockquote>

Grasshopper, you and Weedwacker have MUCH to learn about REAL

life.

Pheromones don\'t look at wedding rings. And, as someone once told me from his own bitter experience,

\"Rings don\'t plug holes.\"

Women play with whatever toys they choose to play with. I\'ll take the hits

from the married women as long as I enjoy having them rub up against me. Fun is fun.

Pancho1188

01-06-2004, 08:35 PM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />

Grasshopper, you and Weedwacker have MUCH to learn about REAL

life.

<hr /></blockquote>

I\'m not sure what that means, but okay.

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif I was just playing.

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Friendly1

01-06-2004, 09:22 PM

It means that you can and should

try to learn from every experience you have. Just because a woman stands behind my back and rubs her breasts on me

doesn\'t mean I\'m going to get laid. Heck, it might be a woman who repulses me. But women who do that to you

feel safe with you and enjoy your company.

Think about that.

You are not creeping them out. You are not

repulsing them. You are most likely relaxed and enjoying yourself. And you are getting attention that other men

are NOT getting.

So, what\'s wrong with getting in a little practice with a married woman (as far as the sexual

hits go)? Nothing. Women are still women, even after they get married.

I meet lots of women every day. Most of

them barely even look at me, much less flip their hair or rub up against me. But in the course of a week, I usually

get a LOT of hits: sexual hits, friendly hits, whatever hits.

I have more than once been dancing with a woman and

felt some other woman rubbing up against my back. Why do they do it? Who knows? One woman came up and pinched my

butt while I was dancing one night. Another woman danced with me one time, acted uninterested, and went back to her

friends. A while later, as I danced with someone else, she kept maneuvering over by me as she danced with someone

else and kept slamming into me (gently, but she was definitely going out of her way to make contact).

I tend to

be flambouyant. I usually enjoy myself. But the pheromones help ME relax and they help the women relax, and that

brings out the playfulness.

So, I\'m having harmless fun and learning more about the women around me. I

don\'t go looking for headlight moments. They come find me. I am open to the opportunities, and they are coming

more often.

You guys like to joke around and nit pick each other to death. But I read a lot of interesting

things in these forums that just don\'t get much comment. Actions really do speak louder than words.

So, yeah,

baby! Hits from married women count. They should be enjoyed. They should be appreciated. Married women will

teach you things single women wouldn\'t dare show you.

I don\'t chase married women. But I sure love being

around them when they want to have fun.

Kari

01-07-2004, 04:40 AM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
My goodness. What a tiff-taff.

Well, I, for one, would like to see

MadMaxx talk about some of his supposed successes with copulins. I may not be an expert in body language, but I had

women in my dance class crawling all over me tonight. Back rubs. Breast rubs. These are married women. It

didn\'t hurt that only one other man showed up, but I usually get a LOT of great attention in that class.

Body

language speaks far louder to me than all the theories in the world. These women love being around me. Part of it

is because I laugh and joke with them, and tease them incessantly. Part of it is because I usually dress well for

those classes (well enough that other men start dressing up just to compete with me for the attention I get). And

part of it is the pheromones and the colognes I wear. The women love it when I wear Creed with APC. And they\'ve

gone totally over the top both times I walked in with The Edge, Creed, and APC on. TOTALLY OVER THE TOP. The

sexual hits were frequent and intense. Ohmygodiwishtheywerentmarried!

I know which pheromones get me the best

results. Tonight I walked in with weak, wimpy little APC slathered all over my neck. I had a great time. I knew I

would enjoy the evening.

Copulins? I doubt they would EVER help a man get much of anything. I\'ve read some

technical stuff on copulin research and nothing in that work would lead me to believe they\'ll help a man get a

woman\'s romantic attention. I am not an expert but that is where I stand on the issue. And nothing MadMaxx or

anyone else has posted here leads me to believe otherwise.

Women DO like men who are popular with other women.

But women seem (in general -- there are always exceptions) to have an aversion to what they see as \"spoiled\" or

\"used\" or \"marked\" goods. If they know you\'re with someone, they lose interest fast. I\'ve got two at

work whose interest took a nosedive when I finally admitted I was dating someone on a regular basis. They may be

starting to come back a little on the interest trail, but they both have boyfriends now and if anything happens with

them, it will probably wait until the boyfriends have screwed up enough that the girls lose interest in

them.

Ain\'t no copulins going to help with THAT situation.

<hr /></blockquote>
Banter and humor are VERY sexy.

Irish

01-07-2004, 06:53 AM

When I tried cops I had

worked out a theory. I tried to imagine what pheros a primitive alpha male of say ten thousand years ago might

naturally emit. So I figured all the usual male steroidal stuff, plus traces of the women this popular alpha had

recently \'been with\'. Seemed to make enough sense to try cops out in my phero mix.

But when I used EW it

just seemed to switch off the none A1 nol. I really thought I could tell the difference from one night to the next,

around the same girls. Like a wall went up with the EW, where without it there was touching and flirting.

So I

gave up - it was that noticeable for me. Maybe I used too much, and overpowered the male signals. Maybe hetero women

are not sexually tweaked by a female signal. Maybe the effect was on ME, since cops definitely adjust a male\'s T

level. Maybe it was just a bad idea after all.

I found one old study that indicated women under exposure to cops

rate men negatively if his manner is not \'feminine\' - that is to say, aggressive men were rated badly when the

female viewer was exposed to cops. Aggressive men were not rated badly when the women were exposed to male steroids.

If the man\'s behavior didn\'t match his signal, the women were disturbed somehow and didn\'t like him.

So

anyway I have abandoned cops, although I may experiment at some point with very dilute doses. The idea that an alpha

male would smell of recent conquests was interesting, but I haven\'t been able to make it work for me. I guess

it\'s one thing as a man to show your \'feminine\' side by admiring a nice dress in a shop - it\'s quite

another thing to put on the dress. When I wore cops I felt like I was wearing the dress.