Muscle Turning into Fat? [Archive] - Love-Scent Pheromones Forum

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MadMaxx

12-21-2003, 08:23 PM

Okay, I want all

the know-it-alls to clear this one up...or just debate it. On one of the recent threads I started about wieghts,

someone(I won\'t say who) mentioned how funny it is when these big muscle-bound guys one day have all their muscle

turn to fat. I\'ve heard this line(myth?) my whole life, and am still hearing it. However, whenever I read

something credible, such as an article last week by some muscle magazine editor, he brings up this issue and firmly

states that it is utter garbage that only morons should/could believe. What I have read is that it is an absolute

impossibility for muscle to \"turn into\" fat. If anyone goes from musclular to fat, it is because they stop using

their muscles, which then get eaten up for energy, since the body doesn\'t need them anymore, then the guy

continues to do nothing...overeat....etc.....and then he lays down fat.....and more fat......

The key point here

is that the fat is laid down as fat, NOT \"converted\" from muscles as so many people like to say and

believe.

So, what\'s the truth here?

Whitehall

12-21-2003, 08:47 PM

I think

what\'s happening is that as a man ages, his hormonal balances change. The androgen hormones get overwhelmed by

estrogen production so he goes into \"estrogen dominance.\" Estrogens are great for putting on fat - that\'s

why they pump our food animals full of them when the ranchers want to fatten them for market.

Plus, once some

body fat goes on, the fat starts making estrogens so the problem is compounded. The hardest fat to take off is the

visceral fat, the stuff inside the gut that causes potbellies.

All this is just part of the cycle of

life.

Then you die.

MadMaxx

12-21-2003, 09:53 PM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
I think what\'s happening is that as a man ages,

his hormonal balances change. The androgen hormones get overwhelmed by estrogen production so he goes into

\"estrogen dominance.\" Estrogens are great for putting on fat - that\'s why they pump our food animals full of

them when the ranchers want to fatten them for market.

Plus, once some body fat goes on, the fat starts making

estrogens so the problem is compounded. The hardest fat to take off is the visceral fat, the stuff inside the gut

that causes potbellies.

All this is just part of the cycle of life.

Then you die.

<hr

/></blockquote>

There\'s a post to lighten up a guy\'s day.

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Sagacious1420

12-21-2003, 10:05 PM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
I think what\'s happening is that as a man ages,

his hormonal balances change. The androgen hormones get overwhelmed by estrogen production so he goes into

\"estrogen dominance.\" Estrogens are great for putting on fat - that\'s why they pump our food animals full of

them when the ranchers want to fatten them for market.

Plus, once some body fat goes on, the fat starts making

estrogens so the problem is compounded. The hardest fat to take off is the visceral fat, the stuff inside the gut

that causes potbellies.

<hr /></blockquote>That sounds about like what I\'ve read. The

term for this male hormonal change that I\'ve run across is \"andropause\".

Sagacious1420

12-21-2003, 10:07 PM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
I think what\'s happening is that as a man ages, his hormonal balances

change. The androgen hormones get overwhelmed by estrogen production so he goes into \"estrogen dominance.\"

Estrogens are great for putting on fat - that\'s why they pump our food animals full of them when the ranchers

want to fatten them for market.

Plus, once some body fat goes on, the fat starts making estrogens so the problem

is compounded. The hardest fat to take off is the visceral fat, the stuff inside the gut that causes

potbellies.

All this is just part of the cycle of life.

Then you die.

<hr /></blockquote>

There\'s a post to lighten up a guy\'s day.

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

<hr /></blockquote>No doubt!

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

Whitehall

12-21-2003, 10:17 PM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
There\'s a post to lighten up a guy\'s day.

<hr /></blockquote>

I think had one too many Shirley Temples for dinner. Too many

and I turn morbid.

belgareth

12-22-2003, 06:34 AM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Okay, I want all the know-it-alls to clear this one

up...or just debate it. On one of the recent threads I started about wieghts, someone(I won\'t say who) mentioned

how funny it is when these big muscle-bound guys one day have all their muscle turn to fat. I\'ve heard this

line(myth?) my whole life, and am still hearing it. However, whenever I read something credible, such as an article

last week by some muscle magazine editor, he brings up this issue and firmly states that it is utter garbage that

only morons should/could believe. What I have read is that it is an absolute impossibility for muscle to \"turn

into\" fat. If anyone goes from musclular to fat, it is because they stop using their muscles, which then get eaten

up for energy, since the body doesn\'t need them anymore, then the guy continues to do

nothing...overeat....etc.....and then he lays down fat.....and more fat......

The key point here is that the fat

is laid down as fat, NOT \"converted\" from muscles as so many people like to say and believe.

So, what\'s

the truth here?

<hr /></blockquote>

That\'s ok, you can mention my name. It wont

hurt my feelings. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif The remark about muscle turning into fat being

amusing was tongue in cheek, sorry if I was less than clear about that.

Since I didn\'t read the article I am

curious, what does this expert attribute this clearly observable phenomena to, then? We\'ve all seen it, several

of my close friends are trying to deal with it right now. (Getting older truly sucks!) It\'s easy to say something

doesn\'t exist but to demonstrate it is another subject altogether. Another question I\'d like to ask is this

person\'s credentials. Being an editor for a muscle building magazine really does not prove much other than he

strongly supports muscle building. Not that I am implying he has a bias (Nor do I-You believe that, right?

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif).

My knowledge of physiology is pretty limited but

Whitehall\'s explanation sounds very plausible. I know that for myself, the older I get, the harder I have to work

to keep from growing a pot belly.

Kari

12-22-2003, 06:57 AM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Okay, I want all the know-it-alls to clear this one up...or just debate it.

On one of the recent threads I started about wieghts, someone(I won\'t say who) mentioned how funny it is when

these big muscle-bound guys one day have all their muscle turn to fat. I\'ve heard this line(myth?) my whole life,

and am still hearing it. However, whenever I read something credible, such as an article last week by some muscle

magazine editor, he brings up this issue and firmly states that it is utter garbage that only morons should/could

believe. What I have read is that it is an absolute impossibility for muscle to \"turn into\" fat. If anyone goes

from musclular to fat, it is because they stop using their muscles, which then get eaten up for energy, since the

body doesn\'t need them anymore, then the guy continues to do nothing...overeat....etc.....and then he lays down

fat.....and more fat......

The key point here is that the fat is laid down as fat, NOT \"converted\" from

muscles as so many people like to say and believe.

So, what\'s the truth here?

<hr /></blockquote>

That\'s ok, you can mention my name. It wont hurt my feelings.

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif The remark about muscle turning into fat being amusing was tongue

in cheek, sorry if I was less than clear about that.

Since I didn\'t read the article I am curious, what does

this expert attribute this clearly observable phenomena to, then? We\'ve all seen it, several of my close friends

are trying to deal with it right now. (Getting older truly sucks!) It\'s easy to say something doesn\'t exist

but to demonstrate it is another subject altogether. Another question I\'d like to ask is this person\'s

credentials. Being an editor for a muscle building magazine really does not prove much other than he strongly

supports muscle building. Not that I am implying he has a bias (Nor do I-You believe that, right?

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif).

My knowledge of physiology is pretty limited but

Whitehall\'s explanation sounds very plausible. I know that for myself, the older I get, the harder I have to work

to keep from growing a pot belly.

<hr /></blockquote>

I\'m a health professional.

I don\'t think muscle turns into fat-- muscle tissue is muscle tissue, and fat is fat. With disuse, muscle

atrophies, and fat accumulates. So, it LOOKS like it\'s turning into fat.

DrSmellThis

12-22-2003, 09:53 AM

Whitehall has identified one of the factors. Of course, there are also factors other than aging per se that favor

increased estrogen production in men (such as living with women, changes in work and social environments).

Incidentally, I think a product called Indolplex (found in a few different supplements) is great for reducing such

excess estrogen, and hence estrogen related changes in body composition. It isolates a chemical from broccoli that

supports estrogen metabolism.

But there are probably at least a few other factors beyond increased estrogen

production.

For instance, I suspect the \"turn to fat\" phenomenon has also to do with a newly slower

metabolism (muscle burns calories) versus historically high calorie intake, as well as a sort of related \'body

weight memory\'. In other words, the body\'s processes had been running at a clip necessary to support a large

(muscular) person, someone who had taken in a lot of calories and burned off a lot, and some processes might

continue to do so, in part, after the muscle atrophy begins.

Another factor might be just a less healthy

lifestyle that tends to be associated with giving up body care routines like weight training. One function of fat is

to carry away fat-soluble toxins in excess of what the liver and skin can process. More toxic living should

translate into higher fat and water retention (water for water soluble toxins).

Further, one function of

muscle was to stabilize and protect the body\'s internal organs. With that loss of protection might well come the

need for the substitute protection that fat offers.

Lastly, the poorer circulation of old age might raise the

body\'s need for insulation, and hence, fat. The same goes with increases in padding to support more sitting and

laying down. (I\'m a big believer in the wisdom of the body.)

belgareth

12-22-2003, 09:55 AM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Okay, I want

all the know-it-alls to clear this one up...or just debate it. On one of the recent threads I started about wieghts,

someone(I won\'t say who) mentioned how funny it is when these big muscle-bound guys one day have all their muscle

turn to fat. I\'ve heard this line(myth?) my whole life, and am still hearing it. However, whenever I read

something credible, such as an article last week by some muscle magazine editor, he brings up this issue and firmly

states that it is utter garbage that only morons should/could believe. What I have read is that it is an absolute

impossibility for muscle to \"turn into\" fat. If anyone goes from musclular to fat, it is because they stop using

their muscles, which then get eaten up for energy, since the body doesn\'t need them anymore, then the guy

continues to do nothing...overeat....etc.....and then he lays down fat.....and more fat......

The key point here

is that the fat is laid down as fat, NOT \"converted\" from muscles as so many people like to say and

believe.

So, what\'s the truth here?

<hr /></blockquote>

That\'s ok, you can

mention my name. It wont hurt my feelings. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif The remark about

muscle turning into fat being amusing was tongue in cheek, sorry if I was less than clear about that.

Since I

didn\'t read the article I am curious, what does this expert attribute this clearly observable phenomena to, then?

We\'ve all seen it, several of my close friends are trying to deal with it right now. (Getting older truly sucks!)

It\'s easy to say something doesn\'t exist but to demonstrate it is another subject altogether. Another question

I\'d like to ask is this person\'s credentials. Being an editor for a muscle building magazine really does not

prove much other than he strongly supports muscle building. Not that I am implying he has a bias (Nor do I-You

believe that, right? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif).

My knowledge of physiology is pretty

limited but Whitehall\'s explanation sounds very plausible. I know that for myself, the older I get, the harder I

have to work to keep from growing a pot belly.

<hr /></blockquote>

I\'m a health

professional. I don\'t think muscle turns into fat-- muscle tissue is muscle tissue, and fat is fat. With disuse,

muscle atrophies, and fat accumulates. So, it LOOKS like it\'s turning into fat.

<hr /></blockquote>

I can accept that.

Kari

12-22-2003, 01:25 PM

http://www.andropause.com/about_andropause/ (\"http://www.andropause.com/about_andropause/\")

MadMaxx

12-22-2003, 09:33 PM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr

/>
http://www.andropause.com/about_andropause/ (\"http://www.andropause.com/about_andropause/\")

<hr /></blockquote>

Hmmm....don\'t want to offend anyone, but in my opinion,

everyone except KARI seems to have kind of missed the point. Forgive me if this is not so. All this talk of

andropause, increase estrogen levels, and all the factors that lead to guys getting \"fat\" as they get older, are

no mystery to me. The one key point that I wanted to clear up is whether muscles tissue turns to fat tissue. This is

what I have been hearing my whole life, but what I have read more than once, is what KARI said, \"muscle tissue is

muscle and fat tissue is fat\". End of story. I have read that it is an impossibility for one to \"convert\" into

the other. So.....maybe indirectly, many of you would agree.....since a lot of you are talking about why fat would

be laid done once we start to advance in years?

It seems to me, the biggest problem for people is whether they

are physically active or not. Meaning, if you are couch potato, you might look likt a blob. If you work out, or do

phyiscal work, maybe you are not a \"blob\". If the active guy stops using his body, he likely becomes a

\"blob\". So, it seems to me that many people\'s logic is that, \"he became a blob because he was a body

builder. Personally, I don\'t think that is sound logic. Anyone who is physically active and in good shape is at

risk of becoming a blob if they change there lifestyle/diet/degree of physical activity.

I guess ultimately what

I want to know is, \"should a guy be afraid of getting too much into muscle training/building, because that seems

to be the direction I am going. I\'m not talking about serious body building though, if you know what I mean. If

building too much muscle is ultimately bad, then I am a bit worried because I seem to have the type of body where I

can quickly put on muscle; totally opposite from these guys who complain that no matter what they do they continue

to look like pencil-necked lightweight geeks. A month of not very intense working out and I am \"growing out of\"

some of my shirts; either can\'t do up the top bottom, or the short-sleeve cuffs are uncomfortably tight at the

biceps; for example.

Icarus

12-23-2003, 01:52 AM

Muscle

tissue cannot turn into fat.

An increased calorie intake, such as that required by a muscular man to

stay muscular will result in major body fat gains when/if the individual stops training as hard.

This is

why bodybuilders and such \'train-down\'(or should) when they come to the end of thier \'span\'. (and as

Kari said, muscles atrophy. (wither from disuse))

Muscle atrophy + Huge fat gain = the appearance that muscle is

turning to fat.

I think the myth revolves around the nutritional aspect (the most important to a bodybuilder),

you would be surpised just how much one has to eat when one hits the upper limits of musculature. These

sorts of habits can be hard to break (thus, fat gains agogo)

Sorry if this isn\'t what you wanted

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Steve

Icarus

12-23-2003, 01:56 AM

Also, you

gotta have fat in your diet otherwise your body will not only hold onto the fat that it has, but will put convert

more of your calorie intake into fat-tissue, as it gets scared that it\'s never going to recieve fat

again.

When you think about it (from a Human-Animal point of view) losing body-fat down to the 3-8% range is a

crazy and anti-survivalist thing to do.

Don\'t know where that fits it. Just wanted to say it.

Steve

MadMaxx

12-23-2003, 03:30 AM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Muscle tissue cannot turn into fat.

An

increased calorie intake, such as that required by a muscular man to stay muscular will result in major body

fat gains when/if the individual stops training as hard.

This is why bodybuilders and such \'train-down\'(or

should) when they come to the end of thier \'span\'. (and as Kari said, muscles atrophy. (wither from

disuse))

Muscle atrophy + Huge fat gain = the appearance that muscle is turning to fat.

I think the myth

revolves around the nutritional aspect (the most important to a bodybuilder), you would be surpised just how

much one has to eat when one hits the upper limits of musculature. These sorts of habits can be hard to break

(thus, fat gains agogo)

Sorry if this isn\'t what you wanted

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Steve

<hr /></blockquote>

Thanks

Steve. Maybe I am far from a serious bodybuilder, since I do not have or require a huge calorie intake.I think I

take in fewer calories than I used to before starting to work out. However, I am gaining muscle, losing fat, and

losing weight. One thing I have noticed though, is that I can eat really \"deadly\" food that I used to have to

consciously avoid (because it would put pounds on me instantly), yet I can still lose weight, and lose fat. I can

eat really heavy spagetti carbonara complete with fresh fried bacon or fried chicken, complete with skin and grease,

simmered in wine and cream, and actually lose weight! Obviously, there is something different going on with my body.

Kari

12-23-2003, 06:43 AM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
<blockquote>Quote:<hr

/>
http://www.andropause.com/about_andropause/ (\"http://www.andropause.com/about_andropause/\")

<hr /></blockquote>

Hmmm....don\'t want to offend anyone, but in my opinion,

everyone except KARI seems to have kind of missed the point. Forgive me if this is not so. All this talk of

andropause, increase estrogen levels, and all the factors that lead to guys getting \"fat\" as they get older, are

no mystery to me. The one key point that I wanted to clear up is whether muscles tissue turns to fat tissue. This is

what I have been hearing my whole life, but what I have read more than once, is what KARI said, \"muscle tissue is

muscle and fat tissue is fat\". End of story. I have read that it is an impossibility for one to \"convert\" into

the other. So.....maybe indirectly, many of you would agree.....since a lot of you are talking about why fat would

be laid done once we start to advance in years?

It seems to me, the biggest problem for people is whether they

are physically active or not. Meaning, if you are couch potato, you might look likt a blob. If you work out, or do

phyiscal work, maybe you are not a \"blob\". If the active guy stops using his body, he likely becomes a

\"blob\". So, it seems to me that many people\'s logic is that, \"he became a blob because he was a body

builder. Personally, I don\'t think that is sound logic. Anyone who is physically active and in good shape is at

risk of becoming a blob if they change there lifestyle/diet/degree of physical activity.

I guess ultimately what

I want to know is, \"should a guy be afraid of getting too much into muscle training/building, because that seems

to be the direction I am going. I\'m not talking about serious body building though, if you know what I mean. If

building too much muscle is ultimately bad, then I am a bit worried because I seem to have the type of body where I

can quickly put on muscle; totally opposite from these guys who complain that no matter what they do they continue

to look like pencil-necked lightweight geeks. A month of not very intense working out and I am \"growing out of\"

some of my shirts; either can\'t do up the top bottom, or the short-sleeve cuffs are uncomfortably tight at the

biceps; for example.

<hr /></blockquote>

I don\'t think bodybuilders are any more

likely to turn into blobs than anyone else. Stop working out, and the muscles slowly lose mass. Also, metabolism

slows, so it\'s easier to accumulate fat.

Kari

12-23-2003, 06:44 AM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Also, you gotta have fat in your diet otherwise

your body will not only hold onto the fat that it has, but will put convert more of your calorie intake into

fat-tissue, as it gets scared that it\'s never going to recieve fat again.

When you think about it (from a

Human-Animal point of view) losing body-fat down to the 3-8% range is a crazy and anti-survivalist thing to

do.

Don\'t know where that fits it. Just wanted to say it.

Steve

<hr /></blockquote>

Uh-huh, and women need a bare minimum of 11% fat JUST to produce hormones.

franki

12-23-2003, 06:45 AM

They say

bodybuilders who do competition and things like that, look like fat-slobs in the \"off-season\".. If they

wouldn\'t be so fat, they wouldn\'t be able to get in form quick for bodybuilder competitions either.

CptKipling

12-23-2003, 07:00 AM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
I can eat really heavy spagetti carbonara complete

with fresh fried bacon or fried chicken, complete with skin and grease, simmered in wine and cream

<hr

/></blockquote>

Sounds like my diet /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

DrSmellThis

12-23-2003, 08:19 AM

It\'s

fine, I think. But they advise football players to transition out of their playing days by increasing aerobic

activity and decreasing weight training and eating. Those who do this don\'t blob out, and vice versa.

Ultimately your bones determine how much muscle you need.

Kari

12-23-2003, 08:47 AM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
It\'s fine, I think. But they advise football

players to transition out of their playing days by increasing aerobic activity and decreasing weight training and

eating. Those who do this don\'t blob out, and vice versa. Ultimately your bones determine how much muscle

you need.

<hr /></blockquote>

A bodybuilder, on TV, was saying the biggest mistake

made is \"not cutting your die in half, when you quit working out.\"

burgerama1960

01-27-2004, 04:50 PM

My

take on this subject corelates with kari. When your training with the intesity of a bodybuilder, you are burning a

huge amount of calories. The more muscle mass you have also burns more calories. When the time comes to end those

extreme workouts you slowly lose muscle mass. Use it or lose it. Alot of bodybuilders are in the mind set that if

they keep up their supplimentation etc. they can maintain their shape. However, They keep eating and eating and

eating like they did before because now they don\'t have to worry about being ripped. The muscles shrink and are

replaced by the fat created by all the excess calories they are taking in. So to prevent this, cut what you stuff in

your pie hole down and stay active.

DefconX3

01-27-2004, 09:25 PM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
My take on this subject corelates with kari. When

your training with the intesity of a bodybuilder, you are burning a huge amount of calories. The more muscle mass

you have also burns more calories. When the time comes to end those extreme workouts you slowly lose muscle mass.

Use it or lose it. Alot of bodybuilders are in the mind set that if they keep up their supplimentation etc. they can

maintain their shape. However, They keep eating and eating and eating like they did before because now they don\'t

have to worry about being ripped. The muscles shrink and are replaced by the fat created by all the excess calories

they are taking in. So to prevent this, cut what you stuff in your pie hole down and stay active.

<hr

/></blockquote>

Agreed.