Placebo effect

[jimhoff]

Since I am a sceptic, I

was wondering how many of these supposed \"hits\" or \"DIHL\" are actually real? How many are just because

since we are wearing the pheros- we are looking for any reactions from other people? I think it is certainly

possible that some of these reactions that we get from other people are normal, but we are just more attentive, so

we attribute them to what we are wearing.
I am not trying to discredit the pheromone philosophy, but just

presenting another point of view. I have purchased some myself and would love to observe reactions that I

ordinarily would not see. But how do we seperate the two?

Josh

[franki]

Go a week without

phero\'s, be very observant. After that, use phero\'s for a week (not necessarily every day), and look for

differences.

[jvkohl]

What you refer to as the

Placebo effect is more aptly described as the power of suggestion, which is indeed significant in many aspects of

human behavior. When pheromone products were initially available, market strategies focussed on the power of

suggestion. What has happened to the more ethical marketers, however, is that their focus has always been less on

telling men they will get laid using a product, to simply telling the truth: the product may enhance your

masculinity and make you somewhat more appealing (as Bruce has always done with products marketed through

Love-scent.com).

This past summer, a study was published that showed women respond to the axillary secretions of

men with a change in luteinizing hormone levels and in mood: both of which are positively influenced by the axillary

secretions. Androstenol: one of the commonly reported components of male axillary secretions (decidely more is

produced in men than women) also has been shown to increase levels of luteinizing hormone (LH) in women. This LH

response is well known, and found in every mammal that\'s been examined, when exposed to the pheromones of the

opposite sex. This means we have progressed beyond wild claims to the point where more accurate claims can be

supported with data from human studies, which parallels data from mammalian studies. Bottom line: it\'s not just

the power of suggestion, it\'s a typical mammalian response to the pheromones of the opposite sex. Though we may

control our behavioral response, we do not control the effect of pheromones on our hormones, and are much more

inclined to respond to the pheromones of the opposite sex--without thought. A little extra or either male or female

pheromones can go a long way in this regard. The DIHL happens without thought. What happens after the DIHL may or

may not happen depending on whether cognitive processing is involved.

[franki]

</font><blockquote><font

class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Go a week without phero\'s, be very observant. After that, use phero\'s

for a week (not necessarily every day), and look for differences.

<hr /></blockquote><font

class=\"post\">

What I wrote maybe sounds a little too simple... The funny thing with pheromones is that is

actually VERY HARD where to draw the borderline between placebo effects and real effects.

That is why I always

test a new product for at least a week or so before I can draw anykind of conclusion. To get a real idea/feeling of

what phero\'s are doing for you actually should wear them ON AND OFF for a few months.

The reason people are

focusing on DIHL\'s and things like that, is not because they are that common, but (obviously) because the DIHL is

not a result of any placebo behaviour. But we\'re talking about the real DIHL here, something you will probably

don\'t get too often, so don\'t just wait for that to happen...

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[jimhoff]

Thanks for your input.

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[jimhoff]

Ok, so now that I have

read more threads on OD and proper dosage, I am going to try this....

Tomorrow I am going to go shopping with my

little girl (black Friday). I am going to put one dab of PI/m and share between both wrists and put a dab on my

neck. We shall see if I notice anything. I am wondering if I have been using too much..... (1-3 drops)

[ironration]

Jkohl,

What is

the scientic results on using androstenone? Has it been shown to be benefical in any way, directly or indirectly?

[bjf]

Ironnation, depending on

the stage a women is in of her cycle, it can elevate or depress mood. To my knowledge, that is what the (good)

studies have shown.

[BDB]

jumhoff,
Me too. I was

skeptical at first but the Beach product produced a DIHL at a public library. It was a young women in her early

twenties and I am 56.
She appeared out of thin air and was literally in my arms. She was in the computer room with

me and several other folks so she must have found me by scent. I still do not know her as she disappeared as fast as

she appeared. She must have been ovulating.
This could not be a placebo effect. It took me totally by surprize and

really put me to thinking.

My question to the master gurus is this. What do you do with a DIDL situation anyway?

It happens much to quickly.
To me a DIHL is operating on both parties. Could she have been laced herself? I did

smell perfume!!
Thanks for the post,
BDB

[Kari]

</font><blockquote><font

class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Since I am a sceptic, I was wondering how many of these supposed \"hits\"

or \"DIHL\" are actually real? How many are just because since we are wearing the pheros- we are looking for any

reactions from other people? I think it is certainly possible that some of these reactions that we get from other

people are normal, but we are just more attentive, so we attribute them to what we are wearing.
I am not trying to

discredit the pheromone philosophy, but just presenting another point of view. I have purchased some myself and

would love to observe reactions that I ordinarily would not see. But how do we seperate the two?

Josh

<hr

/></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

Well, O\\I have a friend who hugs me. But, when I wear AE/w, he also

nuzzles my neck-- and that\'s the ONLY time. He is always mistified re: why he does it.

[AzMike]

Jimhoff, if you have a

good idea of how often women have acted in certain ways toward you in the past, then just note if they start acting

those ways significantly more often or less often, when you are wearing mones.

As an example, a pretty young girl

smiled at me a fair amount of the time during a swing dance I went to about 2 weeks ago. I did not count this as a

hit. Why? Because that evening, only one out of about a dozen or so did that. What was my average at seeing that

before I started using any mones? About one out of a dozen or so.

I think that in at least a few cases, guys

report \"hits\" that are actually commonplace events for them. A bonafide \"hit\" should be something that is

out of the ordinary for you.

Now listening to: \"One Simple Thing\" by the Stabilizers.

AzMike

[jvkohl]

I\'ve commented many

times in the past years about androstenone and why I avoided incorporating it into SOE. Please check for my posts or

take a look at my website for more info.

[Jones]

JVK,

If the results

that a user gets from pheromones can be thought of as a sum of A (an actual physical response, ie LH spike) and B

(placebo effect), given how powerful we know suggestion to be, and the lack of any quanitifiable way to analyze how

LH effects thoughts and actions, how would you respond to the argument that there is no real evidence that A &gt; B

by any large extent?

[Bruce]

Two points:

1.

Placebo effects are almost always greater than the effect you are testing for. That is very normal, and nothing to

be ashamed of. In the medical world, drug companies have to prove to the FDA that new drugs \"work\" before they

go on the market, and the amount of improvement might be as low as 6% after placebo effects as high as 24% are

factored out. When researchers get results like that, they are high fiving each other and the drug goes on the

market.

Of course, I don\'t want to be selling snake oil here and I am quite sure I am not, but the \"placebo

effect\" is nothing to look down your nose at. It is a very powerful and welcome force in my life; power of

positive thinking of whatever you want to call it.

2. There is yet another avenue thru which pheromones work

that has not been mentioned here. It occured to me in my early experiments with pheromones, and remains in my mind

as a major factor in their action. What I am taling about is the effects on the wearer. I am convinced that when

you put pheromones on there is a significant effect on you the wearer. They make me feel sexy somehow. I believe

this is a very real physical effect. It heavily colors my perceptions of those around me for one thing, but it also

makes me more attractive as well. It makes me feel like \"yeah! I still go the ol\' mojo afterall?\" And when

you are feeling like that, good things happen.

Bruce

[CptKipling]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
How many are just because since we are wearing the

pheros- we are looking for any reactions from other people?

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">



Surely you aren\'t going to tell me that you dont look for reactions from women normally?

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Try what franki said, worked well for me.

[Pancho1188]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font

class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
How many are just because since we are wearing the pheros- we are looking

for any reactions from other people?

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

Surely you aren\'t going

to tell me that you dont look for reactions from women normally?

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Try what franki said, worked well for me.

<hr

/></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

I know I\'m always looking for reactions... I\'ll take it any way I

can get it. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif If you\'re not, you\'re either taken or.......I

don\'t know......If you had your testicles removed, you\'re a priest, you\'re asexual, or you\'re a woman

and get too tired of getting them..........other than that, why wouldn\'t you be looking for people checking you

out? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[jimhoff]

ok..enough on this

one. By stating this, I simply meant that we are looking MORE since we have them on. In other words, we may be

looking so much that we confuse innocent gestures with the effects of the mones. Sorry if I was unclear. Geez...

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[Pancho1188]

We know; we\'re

just giving you a hard time. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif It\'s like an initiation.

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif J/K.

[jimhoff]

Good times!!!

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif