View Full Version : Placebo effect
jimhoff
11-27-2003, 05:27 PM
Since I am a sceptic, I
was wondering how many of these supposed \"hits\" or \"DIHL\" are actually real? How many are just because
since we are wearing the pheros- we are looking for any reactions from other people? I think it is certainly
possible that some of these reactions that we get from other people are normal, but we are just more attentive, so
we attribute them to what we are wearing.
I am not trying to discredit the pheromone philosophy, but just
presenting another point of view. I have purchased some myself and would love to observe reactions that I
ordinarily would not see. But how do we seperate the two?
Josh
franki
11-27-2003, 05:46 PM
Go a week without
phero\'s, be very observant. After that, use phero\'s for a week (not necessarily every day), and look for
differences.
jvkohl
11-27-2003, 05:49 PM
What you refer to as the
Placebo effect is more aptly described as the power of suggestion, which is indeed significant in many aspects of
human behavior. When pheromone products were initially available, market strategies focussed on the power of
suggestion. What has happened to the more ethical marketers, however, is that their focus has always been less on
telling men they will get laid using a product, to simply telling the truth: the product may enhance your
masculinity and make you somewhat more appealing (as Bruce has always done with products marketed through
Love-scent.com).
This past summer, a study was published that showed women respond to the axillary secretions of
men with a change in luteinizing hormone levels and in mood: both of which are positively influenced by the axillary
secretions. Androstenol: one of the commonly reported components of male axillary secretions (decidely more is
produced in men than women) also has been shown to increase levels of luteinizing hormone (LH) in women. This LH
response is well known, and found in every mammal that\'s been examined, when exposed to the pheromones of the
opposite sex. This means we have progressed beyond wild claims to the point where more accurate claims can be
supported with data from human studies, which parallels data from mammalian studies. Bottom line: it\'s not just
the power of suggestion, it\'s a typical mammalian response to the pheromones of the opposite sex. Though we may
control our behavioral response, we do not control the effect of pheromones on our hormones, and are much more
inclined to respond to the pheromones of the opposite sex--without thought. A little extra or either male or female
pheromones can go a long way in this regard. The DIHL happens without thought. What happens after the DIHL may or
may not happen depending on whether cognitive processing is involved.
franki
11-27-2003, 06:23 PM
</font><blockquote><font
class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Go a week without phero\'s, be very observant. After that, use phero\'s
for a week (not necessarily every day), and look for differences.
<hr /></blockquote><font
class=\"post\">
What I wrote maybe sounds a little too simple... The funny thing with pheromones is that is
actually VERY HARD where to draw the borderline between placebo effects and real effects.
That is why I always
test a new product for at least a week or so before I can draw anykind of conclusion. To get a real idea/feeling of
what phero\'s are doing for you actually should wear them ON AND OFF for a few months.
The reason people are
focusing on DIHL\'s and things like that, is not because they are that common, but (obviously) because the DIHL is
not a result of any placebo behaviour. But we\'re talking about the real DIHL here, something you will probably
don\'t get too often, so don\'t just wait for that to happen...
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
jimhoff
11-27-2003, 06:25 PM
Thanks for your input.
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
jimhoff
11-27-2003, 07:03 PM
Ok, so now that I have
read more threads on OD and proper dosage, I am going to try this....
Tomorrow I am going to go shopping with my
little girl (black Friday). I am going to put one dab of PI/m and share between both wrists and put a dab on my
neck. We shall see if I notice anything. I am wondering if I have been using too much..... (1-3 drops)
ironration
11-28-2003, 10:21 AM
Jkohl,
What is
the scientic results on using androstenone? Has it been shown to be benefical in any way, directly or indirectly?
Ironnation, depending on
the stage a women is in of her cycle, it can elevate or depress mood. To my knowledge, that is what the (good)
studies have shown.
jumhoff,
Me too. I was
skeptical at first but the Beach product produced a DIHL at a public library. It was a young women in her early
twenties and I am 56.
She appeared out of thin air and was literally in my arms. She was in the computer room with
me and several other folks so she must have found me by scent. I still do not know her as she disappeared as fast as
she appeared. She must have been ovulating.
This could not be a placebo effect. It took me totally by surprize and
really put me to thinking.
My question to the master gurus is this. What do you do with a DIDL situation anyway?
It happens much to quickly.
To me a DIHL is operating on both parties. Could she have been laced herself? I did
smell perfume!!
Thanks for the post,
BDB
</font><blockquote><font
class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Since I am a sceptic, I was wondering how many of these supposed \"hits\"
or \"DIHL\" are actually real? How many are just because since we are wearing the pheros- we are looking for any
reactions from other people? I think it is certainly possible that some of these reactions that we get from other
people are normal, but we are just more attentive, so we attribute them to what we are wearing.
I am not trying to
discredit the pheromone philosophy, but just presenting another point of view. I have purchased some myself and
would love to observe reactions that I ordinarily would not see. But how do we seperate the two?
Josh
<hr
/></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
Well, O\\I have a friend who hugs me. But, when I wear AE/w, he also
nuzzles my neck-- and that\'s the ONLY time. He is always mistified re: why he does it.
AzMike
11-28-2003, 06:24 PM
Jimhoff, if you have a
good idea of how often women have acted in certain ways toward you in the past, then just note if they start acting
those ways significantly more often or less often, when you are wearing mones.
As an example, a pretty young girl
smiled at me a fair amount of the time during a swing dance I went to about 2 weeks ago. I did not count this as a
hit. Why? Because that evening, only one out of about a dozen or so did that. What was my average at seeing that
before I started using any mones? About one out of a dozen or so.
I think that in at least a few cases, guys
report \"hits\" that are actually commonplace events for them. A bonafide \"hit\" should be something that is
out of the ordinary for you.
Now listening to: \"One Simple Thing\" by the Stabilizers.
AzMike
jvkohl
11-28-2003, 08:16 PM
I\'ve commented many
times in the past years about androstenone and why I avoided incorporating it into SOE. Please check for my posts or
take a look at my website for more info.
Jones
11-28-2003, 10:07 PM
JVK,
If the results
that a user gets from pheromones can be thought of as a sum of A (an actual physical response, ie LH spike) and B
(placebo effect), given how powerful we know suggestion to be, and the lack of any quanitifiable way to analyze how
LH effects thoughts and actions, how would you respond to the argument that there is no real evidence that A > B
by any large extent?
Bruce
11-29-2003, 10:55 AM
Two points:
1.
Placebo effects are almost always greater than the effect you are testing for. That is very normal, and nothing to
be ashamed of. In the medical world, drug companies have to prove to the FDA that new drugs \"work\" before they
go on the market, and the amount of improvement might be as low as 6% after placebo effects as high as 24% are
factored out. When researchers get results like that, they are high fiving each other and the drug goes on the
market.
Of course, I don\'t want to be selling snake oil here and I am quite sure I am not, but the \"placebo
effect\" is nothing to look down your nose at. It is a very powerful and welcome force in my life; power of
positive thinking of whatever you want to call it.
2. There is yet another avenue thru which pheromones work
that has not been mentioned here. It occured to me in my early experiments with pheromones, and remains in my mind
as a major factor in their action. What I am taling about is the effects on the wearer. I am convinced that when
you put pheromones on there is a significant effect on you the wearer. They make me feel sexy somehow. I believe
this is a very real physical effect. It heavily colors my perceptions of those around me for one thing, but it also
makes me more attractive as well. It makes me feel like \"yeah! I still go the ol\' mojo afterall?\" And when
you are feeling like that, good things happen.
Bruce
CptKipling
11-29-2003, 03:13 PM
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
How many are just because since we are wearing the
pheros- we are looking for any reactions from other people?
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
Surely you aren\'t going to tell me that you dont look for reactions from women normally?
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
Try what franki said, worked well for me.
Pancho1188
11-30-2003, 06:36 PM
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font
class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
How many are just because since we are wearing the pheros- we are looking
for any reactions from other people?
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
Surely you aren\'t going
to tell me that you dont look for reactions from women normally?
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
Try what franki said, worked well for me.
<hr
/></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
I know I\'m always looking for reactions... I\'ll take it any way I
can get it. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif If you\'re not, you\'re either taken or.......I
don\'t know......If you had your testicles removed, you\'re a priest, you\'re asexual, or you\'re a woman
and get too tired of getting them..........other than that, why wouldn\'t you be looking for people checking you
out? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
jimhoff
11-30-2003, 06:39 PM
ok..enough on this
one. By stating this, I simply meant that we are looking MORE since we have them on. In other words, we may be
looking so much that we confuse innocent gestures with the effects of the mones. Sorry if I was unclear. Geez...
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
Pancho1188
11-30-2003, 07:01 PM
We know; we\'re
just giving you a hard time. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif It\'s like an initiation.
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif J/K.
jimhoff
11-30-2003, 07:40 PM
Good times!!!
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
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