View Full Version : SOE: 0.25 or 0.025 mg per drop?
Sunny
10-22-2003, 08:55 AM
Hi
all,
while crunching numbers I have came across a problem which should be easy to solve. The question
is:
How many mg of pheromones is in one drop of SOE?
This should be easy, I thought, and consulted
Abductor\'s online calculator. The calculator says 0.25 mg per drop.
This confused me:
Â<font
color=\"red\"> 1 drop = 0.25 mg (according to Abductor\'s calculator)</font>
ÂÂ1 gelpack = 0.13 mg (according
to cookbook)
ÂÂ1 drop = 2 gelpacks (derived by simple logic)
According to this, 1/2 gelpack would equal
1/4 drop. And this is no speculation, it\'s simple maths, using the information from the calculator (1 drop = 0.25
mg) and from the shop website (1 gelpack = 0.13 mg).
Okay, something must be wrong here!
So I tried a
different approach:
Accordung to the shop website, there is a total of 5 mg of pheromones in the 10 ml SOE
bottle. If one drop is 0.05 ml (20 drops per ml), there are 200 drops in a 10 ml SOE bottle. That\'s
ÂÂ<font color=\"red\">5 mg / 200 drops = 0.025 mg per drop !!!</font>
That sounds much better,
because now we have
ÂÂ1 gelpack = 5.3 drops
So could the calculator be wrong and should say 0.025 per
drop instead of 0.25? If that was true, all the output of the calculator which I have used so far would have given
10 times more SOE than what I have actually used...
Or am I totally confused now?
I take the risk of
somebody proving that I am
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif
Sunny
P.S.
Actually my question is how many
inches (very roughly) one drop equals. Now I got stuck with the other problem. I found about 5-7 inches per drop in
my test (that would mean roughly 30 inches = 1 gelpack if the calculator is wrong and the shop website is right) but
I would really appreciate input from others. Of cause we know that the output of the bottle is not consistent at all
and that there is great variation. I just want a number for my calculations...
CptKipling
10-22-2003, 09:39 AM
Total mg per drop should be 0.025, not sure what\'s wrong the the mix calc
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif
Drops per inch?
It\'s about 28\" per ml, which is
about 0.036 ml per inch. I dont know what volume your dropper gives, so you will have to do the rest.
abductor
10-22-2003, 10:12 AM
...
Let me see ...
I taked some values from main table that is used to make all calculations..
The values
is: product pheromone mg/drop. Fields syntax is: (index, product name, none, rone, nol, copu)
INSERT INTO
`phero_table` VALUES (1, \'SOE\', \'0\', \'0.05\', \'0.2\', \'0\');
INSERT INTO `phero_table`
VALUES (2, \'RM\', \'0.025\', \'0\', \'0\', \'0\');
INSERT INTO `phero_table` VALUES (3,
\'NPA\', \'0.024\', \'0\', \'0\', \'0\');
looking at the table above we see that the
value of the RM is correct (RM the has same final value of SoE) But SoE has 2 pheromones. Then I think the correct
value to soe is:
INSERT INTO `phero_table` VALUES (1, \'SOE\', \'0\', \'0.00652\',
\'0.01875\', \'0\');
Is it correct? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif
Bruce
10-22-2003, 10:54 AM
Whoa
guys. These calculations would give a math teacher nightmares. Sunny, you\'re adding apples and oranges all over
the place. For starters the .13 mg in a gel pack is the wt of the pheromones only. That figure is lightyears from
the wt of the product in one of the packets. I would guess that at over a gram which is 10,000 times greater than
the wt of the pheromones contained therein.
Bruce
Sagacious1420
10-22-2003, 10:56 AM
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Total mg per drop should be 0.025, not sure
what\'s wrong the the mix calc /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif
Drops per inch?
It\'s
about 28\" per ml, which is about 0.036 ml per inch. I dont know what volume your dropper gives, so you will have
to do the rest.
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
Hmmmmm...very interesting. I\'ve been
estimating about 1 drop for every 2\" or so. Really nothing \"scientific\" about that assumption. I\'ve been
basing it on how much area I can cover after spreading around a drop vs. a \"swipe\". Perhaps I need to rethink
this.?.? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif
Thanks.
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
abductor
10-22-2003, 12:15 PM
Folks,
I think this bug is fixed now! Check out
http://mixcalc.sysframe.net/ (\"http://mixcalc.sysframe.net/\")
I used:
0,00625 Nol /
drop
and
0,01875 Rone / drop
Now total phero (nol+rone) is: 0,025/drop
I think now is correct .. Sorry about
that mistake ..
and Thank you Sunny, for debug help !!!
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif
abductor
10-22-2003, 12:49 PM
OPSSSSS ../ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif
Mine two neurons are not communicating at this
time..
It is 4N:1R
then
Correct values :
0,005 NOL
0,02 Rone
Sorry again .. the table is update now!
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif
Sagacious1420
10-22-2003, 01:47 PM
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
OPSSSSS
../ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif
Mine two neurons are not communicating at this time..
It is
4N:1R
then
Correct values :
0,005 NOL
0,02 Rone
Sorry again .. the table is update now!
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
Sorry to be a
pain in the a$$, but if it\'s 4:1 nol:rone, wouldn\'t that be 0.02 nol and 0.005 rone?
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif
Sunny
10-22-2003, 03:27 PM
abductor:
I am really impressed, just left the house and when I came back the error was confirmed and
fixed - excellent job, thank you!!! I use your calculator a lot and really like it.
May I make a suggestion?
Things which would be useful:
- Add \'diluent\' like a product, so that one can include ethanol or cologne in
the total number of drops, then use an input field for how much of the mix I want to use for one dosage. This way it
would be very convenient to answer the question: \"If I mix 5 drops SOE, 3 drops AE... etc. and then 20 drops
cologne, then use 2 sprays of the final mix, what do I get?\"
- allow 4 ingredients plus diluent
Everybody
who has used the calculator previously for any mix containing SOE should try again now! Results will be very
different, you will now have up to 10 times less -rone and -nol in your mix!
Bruce
says:
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
For starters the .13 mg in a gel pack is
the wt of the pheromones only. That figure is lightyears from the wt of the product in one of the packets. I would
guess that at over a gram which is 10,000 times greater than the wt of the pheromones contained therein.
<hr
/></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
Bruce, I don\'t question that. You are right! But I did not use the
weight of the final SOE gel product in any calculation. In my original post just substitute \"mg\" with \"mg of
pheromones\", that\'s what I meant. Of cause the weight of the final gel product (which we don\'t know and
don\'t care about) has nothing to do with the weight of the pheromones contained in it.
I value your input
very highly! I am just a beginner tying to learn here. Yet I don\'t understand what kind of error you say I made?
Could you explain more in detail? We found that there was an error in the calculator (which is not directly related
to the gelpacks anyway) and abductor fixed it right away. I am happy now because my calculations look right (well,
to me). Bruce, please don\'t get me wrong, I very much respect your knowledge and experience and won\'t throw
apples and oranges at you... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
Sag:
You are right, there
is more -nol than -rone of cause, that must have been a typo by abductor in his last post only, the calculator is
all right now.
CptKipling:
You need 1 ml for 28\"? That\'s a lot for me. If calculate 20 drops for one
ml, that would be 1.4\" for one drop. Okay, if the roller is in good mood and you apply very thick, that could be
right.
Once confused and now -almost- enlightened
Sunny
Sunny
10-22-2003, 04:05 PM
Okay,
just for those who are only quickly browsing through this thread:
If you are happy with the idea of getting 2\"
from one drop of SOE (I am getting used to it...) and getting 20 drops from 1 ml liquid SOE, then:
ÂÂÂapprox.
10\" SOE = 5.2 drops = 1 gel pack
CptKipling
10-23-2003, 09:19 AM
Correct, except that you probably wont be getting 0.05 ml per drop. Your best bet would be to work out how many
drops per ml you get for yourself, because everyones dropper is different.
Sunny
10-23-2003, 10:18 AM
0.05 ml
per drop is what the newbie information thread at the top of this forum says. But that\'s a free-falling drop of
APC from the fingertip (not really what we use every day...). BTW abductor also uses 0.05 ml for his
calculator.
I just checked it using my droppers (the stuff you get in any pharmacy over here) and Ethanol,
measured with a calibrated lab pipette: It\'s only half of this, 0.025 ml per drop! You are right. So one gelpack
would equal more like 10 drops of liquid SOE.
Henrix
10-25-2003, 06:27 AM
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
abductor:
I am really impressed, just left
the house and when I came back the error was confirmed and fixed - excellent job, thank you!!! I use your calculator
a lot and really like it.
May I make a suggestion? Things which would be useful:
- Add \'diluent\' like a
product, so that one can include ethanol or cologne in the total number of drops, then use an input field for how
much of the mix I want to use for one dosage. This way it would be very convenient to answer the question: \"If I
mix 5 drops SOE, 3 drops AE... etc. and then 20 drops cologne, then use 2 sprays of the final mix, what do I
get?\"
- allow 4 ingredients plus diluent
Everybody who has used the calculator previously for any mix
containing SOE should try again now! Results will be very different, you will now have up to 10 times less -rone and
-nol in your mix!
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
Hey
i\'m a newbie to this Pheromone
business - i have seen the calculator and i think it is great, but i, like you, misses the 4th option, so it is
possible to get an idea of how much a dap or one push on the atomizer will give you ( i hope ya understand !!!
)
But i think that you forget to take one thing into consideration and that is how much you get from one
stoke/push on the atomizer.
I\'ve just bought an atomizer myself and i have calculated that it can contains
just above 7 ml. ( to be more precise 7.0685....) and i also have tried to emty the little bottle and it took aprox.
45 strokes ( i don\'t have a life i know ! ) so from one stroke i would get 7.06/45 = 0.15 ml.
I also think
that this would be somehting that needs to be considered
Sunny
10-25-2003, 07:56 AM
Hey
Henrix,
you did quite a good measurement with 0.15 ml per spray. The newbie thread says 0.13 ml per one spray
from the TE bottle.
The calculator already has an option for sprays and it also uses 0.13 ml.
I have done a
couple of tests with various spray bottles I have. They range from 0.12 to 0.15 ml. However I am sure that there are
bottles out there which release much more than 0.15 ml (probably quite some cologne bottles) and/or inconsistant
amounts. I haven\'t tested any of those however.
Sunny
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