View Full Version : Androstadienol...
I can\'t seem to find
much about it on the web (other than an article in an another post alleging that androstadienol and A-1 convert to
-none and -nol). Does anyone know anything about it? What it does? If it\'s available?
MysteriousMan
10-15-2003, 11:01 AM
Read this (\"http://www.server2.love-scent.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB4&Number=14154&fpart=&am
p;PHPSESSID=http://www.server2.love-scent.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB4&Number=14154&fpart
=&PHPSESSID=\") or search for androstadienone instead of androstadienol
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif
MM
franki
10-15-2003, 11:06 AM
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Read this (\"http://www.server2.love-scent.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB4&Number=14154&fpart=&am
p;PHPSESSID=http://www.server2.love-scent.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB4&Number=14154&fpart
=&PHPSESSID=\") or search for androstadienone instead of androstadienol
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif
MM
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
Why
would you do that if you are looking for info on androstadienol??
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif
p.s. I am not sure if it even exists..
MysteriousMan
10-15-2003, 11:28 AM
Androstadienol conversion is not very relevant in this forum since to my knowledge you can\'t buy it, if it
exists. So I asumed it might be a typo.
MM
Jones
10-15-2003, 12:17 PM
There are hundreds of
androstadienols, please specify.
Firstly, I did in fact
mean androstadieNOL.
Secondly, I\'m totally ignorant as to the number and variety of existing androstadienols,
as I have no background in chemistry. That said, if it weren\'t for the ignorant, this forum would serve little or
no purpose.
So below is the abstract in which I encountered the term androstadienol. I realize it\'s not for
sale anywhere, but surely a little intellectual curiosity is nothing to be ashamed of. So, really, I\'m just
wondering if anyone knows what it\'s purported to do (assuming it\'s purported to do
anything).
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?holding=npg&cmd=Retrieve&
;db=PubMed&list_uids=8142319&dopt=Abstract (\"http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?holding=npg&cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&l
ist_uids=8142319&dopt=Abstract\")
oscar
10-15-2003, 03:39 PM
Naja,
That abstract
lists 5,16,Androstadien-3beta-ol as one of the compounds found in sweat. I remember discussing this very article a
couple of years back. Think I might have it bookmarked even. It even goes into conversion a bit.
On
www.steraloids.com (\"http://www.steraloids.com\") it\'s code number is A0660-000 and it looks pretty
cheap at $12 for 5 mg, $35 for 50mg, and $65 for 100mg. Whether you can actually get them to SHIP you some is
another story though. And whether it\'s good for anything besides stinking up the place is still another.
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
The Steraloids site is a great read though. Check it out. Looks
like beta-Nol is there too, for what it\'s worth.
Oscar /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Jones
10-15-2003, 04:54 PM
that is beta nol
oscar
10-15-2003, 07:36 PM
Jones,
Bear with
me. I don\'t have a degree in chemistry, but I do have a question I feel you can answer. However, I may not be
able to understand the answer unless you can put it in layman\'s terms, but I\'m going to give it a shot
anyway.
If what that abstract refers to as Androstadienol (5,16,-Androstadien-3beta-ol) is what WE would refer to
as beta nol, what then is the 5alpha-Androst-16-en-3beta-ol (that they call \"3 beta-Androstenol\") that occurs in
much lower quantities in sweat than what they call Androstadienol?
Oscar
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif
Jones
10-15-2003, 09:22 PM
\"If what that
abstract refers to as Androstadienol (5,16,-Androstadien-3beta-ol) is what WE would refer to as beta nol, what then
is the 5alpha-Androst-16-en-3beta-ol (that they call \"3 beta-Androstenol\") that occurs in much lower quantities
in sweat than what they call Androstadienol? \"
Yes, that 5,16,-Androstadien-3beta-ol is beta nol,
and
5alpha-Androst-16-en-3beta-ol is what we call just \'nol\'
Does that answer your q?
DrSmellThis
10-16-2003, 05:51 AM
Androstadienol:-nol::A1:-none
Theoretically, you would want to combine -dienol and -nol to get a more holistic
effect, and -dienol would convert to -nol.
Jones
10-16-2003, 11:40 AM
Not in this decade
though
DrSmellThis
10-16-2003, 04:59 PM
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
\"If what that abstract refers to as
Androstadienol (5,16,-Androstadien-3beta-ol) is what WE would refer to as beta nol, what then is the
5alpha-Androst-16-en-3beta-ol (that they call \"3 beta-Androstenol\") that occurs in much lower quantities in
sweat than what they call Androstadienol? \"
Yes, that 5,16,-Androstadien-3beta-ol is beta nol,
and
5alpha-Androst-16-en-3beta-ol is what we call just \'nol\'
Does that answer
your q?
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
That indeed answers the question, Mr. Jones, but
unfortunately, incorrectly on both counts. What we here call -nol is in fact: 5 alpha-Androst-16-en-3-alpha-ol. I
believe Oscar is instead correct, regarding the chemical referred to as beta-nol. What was that unhelpful
\'decade\' comment about? As far as I know, -dienol is indeed a precursor to -nol, via the normal pathways from
pregnenolone; just as -dienone is for -none. How is this not correct?
But if you understand it while we do
not, please trace your understanding of the pathways for us, starting with cholesterol, so we can understand how
your version of the chemistry differs. That would be helpful to others.
Here is a relevant study from the
Journal of Steroid Biochemistry that portrays the conversion pathway to be as I said it
was:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=114576 60
&dopt=Abstract (\"http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=114576 60&
amp;dopt=Abstract\")
Here is an excerpt:
</font><blockquote><font
class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
We wanted to determine the precise biosynthetic pathway of androstenol and
other closely related steroids. Using transformed human embryonic kidney (HEK-293) cells that stably express 3
beta-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase, 5 alpha-reductase and 3 alpha-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase, we have shown that
these enzymes are able to efficiently transform the precursor 5,16-androstadien-3 beta-ol into androstenol. We thus
provided evidence that androstenol, the ligand for CAR and PXR, is produced by the biosynthetic pathway of sex
steroids.
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
Here is another relevant Journal of Steroid
Biochemistry article for good
measure.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=82409
78&dopt=Abstract (\"http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=82409
78&dopt=Abstract\")
Jones
10-16-2003, 06:07 PM
That indeed answers
the question, Mr. Jones, but unfortunately, incorrectly on both counts. What we here call -nol is in fact: 5
alpha-Androst-16-en-3-alpha-ol. I believe Oscar is instead correct, regarding the chemical referred to as beta-nol.
What was that unhelpful \'decade\' comment about? As far as I know, -dienol is indeed a precursor to -nol, via
the normal pathways from pregnenolone; just as -dienone is for -none. How is this not correct?
5
alpha-Androst-16-en-3-alpha-ol and
5 alpha-Androst-16-en-3-beta-ol are isomers and are virtually the
same molecule. That said, the latter was shown to have almost NO activity in the VNO.
The difference is a
109 degree roation of that 3 hydroxy group. They would have the same value in the VNO/membrane, they are too
structurally related.
Check Figure 2 ;
http://www.naturalattraction.com/NEW/s/6.html (\"http://www.naturalattraction.com/NEW/s/6.html\")
Its
black and white
The dienol is the beta-nol; you can see its structure in the erox paper.
Regarding
your statement about conversion, in order for 5-ene to get to the the fully reduced form, you would need appreciable
amounts of 5-4 isomerase, and 5 alpha reductase.
You are correct about the synthesis, but most enzymes are
type specific as to which way the got (ox or redux), and we all know that 54 isomerase and 5AR do not exist in
appreciable amounts on the skin.
Of course, dienes are in equilibrium with there unsaturated
counterparts, but of course its like 1 to a trillion.
The purpose of statement was simply to inform people
that worrying about conversion is not needed, and will only complicate an already complicated
idea.
5,16-androstadien-3 beta-ol = beta nol -- If your unconvinced read the paper that published its
activity, by erox
also, \"using transformed human embryonic kidney (HEK-293) cells that stably
express 3 beta-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase, 5 alpha-reductase and 3 alpha-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase, we have
shown that these enzymes are able to efficiently transform the precursor 5,16-androstadien-3 beta-ol into
androstenol.\"
The kidney is not part of the integumentary system, thus we are not concerned about topical
use of pheromones based on this study.
DrSmellThis
10-17-2003, 06:11 AM
Hemmmm! Hawwwww!
Hemmmmmmmm! Hhaaaaaaaaawwww! Gobbbbelty Goook! Gobbelty gobbelty gobbelty! How\'s that for English? Lets see,
different is different, you\'re obscuring with technical...some of comments are irrelevant, skin conversions are
more complex with aerobic bacteria, you contradicted yourself again, we don\'t know how a vs. b activate the VNO,
-nol conversion starts at 20 min (heavy near apocrine...), the diagram doesn\'t show that, and...Oh, never mind. I
need some oxycodone, or is it oxycontin? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif Humility school is not
a river in Egypt /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif.
CptKipling
10-17-2003, 09:31 AM
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
That said, the latter was shown to have almost NO
activity in the VNO.
The difference is a 109 degree roation of that 3 hydroxy group. They would have the same
value in the VNO/membrane, they are too structurally related.
<hr /></blockquote><font
class=\"post\">
Isn\'t that a slight contradiction?
Jones, I know you a clever, but please dont write
speculating outside of your field (the VNO) right next to statements about chemistry, it\'s very confusing.
Doc
smell is right, conversions in this case are not as simple as your understanding of how they work. On the skin most
of the conversions are by bacterial flora, which is a whole new mess of squirrels
Jones
10-17-2003, 11:25 AM
\"They would have
the same value in the VNO/membrane, they are too structurally related. \"
I meant
\"They \'should\' have
the same value in the VNO/membrane, they are too structurally related.\"
I standby that statement. The
experiment showed too large a difference.
And who puts pheromones on there skin? Your clothes are right there.
The bacteria/enzyme conversion issue can easily be bypassed.
DrSmellThis
10-17-2003, 01:46 PM
Listen to what I
meant, not what I say! I know I am what are you? Mommmm! Sissie\'s touching me! Make her
stop!
Hahahaaaahahaahaahahahahahahahahahaaaaaaaaaa! Hehehe...
OK, now that that\'s out of my system, the VNO
may well have zilch to do with the pheromonal effect of -nol, which is anyway obviously a smokescreen issue. That
180 rotate will radically change the vibration of the molecule, (as well as changing the key structure), which in
olfaction appears to be important. Pheromax has a study showing a difference in effect.
Yeah! Who puts pheromones
on their skin anyway? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif Boobie boobie boobie
boo boo!
Even if I am WWWRRRRROONNNNGGGGGGG! -GAA!
That is fun to say! Try it folks, come on, real loud,
\"WWWRRRRROONNNNGGGGGGG! -GAAA!\"
Heee Hawwww hHeee HawWWW! Arff! Arff! Arf!
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
Holmes
10-17-2003, 01:58 PM
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Dr. SmellDiz, you hellafunkin like a telefunken! You be
throwin\' dooooownnnn, money! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif I was pizzed in da picture
but now I gots ta smile. Props!
Holmes
DrSmellThis
10-17-2003, 02:07 PM
A little shout
out to Holmes!
Holmes
10-17-2003, 02:37 PM
Yeeea, no doubt,
Docta. Word \'em up!
Oh, wait: nanny-nanny boo-boo! (My bickering quota for today.)
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
We out.
Holmes
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