PDA

View Full Version : Androstadienol...



Naja
10-14-2003, 09:38 PM
I can\'t seem to find

much about it on the web (other than an article in an another post alleging that androstadienol and A-1 convert to

-none and -nol). Does anyone know anything about it? What it does? If it\'s available?

MysteriousMan
10-15-2003, 11:01 AM
Read this (\"http://www.server2.love-scent.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB4&Number=14154&fpart=&am

p;PHPSESSID=http://www.server2.love-scent.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB4&Number=14154&fpart

=&PHPSESSID=\") or search for androstadienone instead of androstadienol

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

MM

franki
10-15-2003, 11:06 AM
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />


Read this (\"http://www.server2.love-scent.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&amp;Board=UBB4&amp;Number=14154&amp;fpart=&am

p;PHPSESSID=http://www.server2.love-scent.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&amp;Board=UBB4&amp;Number=14154&amp;fpart

=&amp;PHPSESSID=\") or search for androstadienone instead of androstadienol

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

MM

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

Why

would you do that if you are looking for info on androstadienol??

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

p.s. I am not sure if it even exists..

MysteriousMan
10-15-2003, 11:28 AM
Androstadienol conversion is not very relevant in this forum since to my knowledge you can\'t buy it, if it

exists. So I asumed it might be a typo.

MM

Jones
10-15-2003, 12:17 PM
There are hundreds of

androstadienols, please specify.

Naja
10-15-2003, 01:43 PM
Firstly, I did in fact

mean androstadieNOL.

Secondly, I\'m totally ignorant as to the number and variety of existing androstadienols,

as I have no background in chemistry. That said, if it weren\'t for the ignorant, this forum would serve little or

no purpose.

So below is the abstract in which I encountered the term androstadienol. I realize it\'s not for

sale anywhere, but surely a little intellectual curiosity is nothing to be ashamed of. So, really, I\'m just

wondering if anyone knows what it\'s purported to do (assuming it\'s purported to do

anything).

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?holding=npg&amp;cmd=Retrieve&amp

;db=PubMed&amp;list_uids=8142319&amp;dopt=Abstract (\"http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?holding=npg&amp;cmd=Retrieve&amp;db=PubMed&amp;l

ist_uids=8142319&amp;dopt=Abstract\")

oscar
10-15-2003, 03:39 PM
Naja,

That abstract

lists 5,16,Androstadien-3beta-ol as one of the compounds found in sweat. I remember discussing this very article a

couple of years back. Think I might have it bookmarked even. It even goes into conversion a bit.

On

www.steraloids.com (\"http://www.steraloids.com\") it\'s code number is A0660-000 and it looks pretty

cheap at $12 for 5 mg, $35 for 50mg, and $65 for 100mg. Whether you can actually get them to SHIP you some is

another story though. And whether it\'s good for anything besides stinking up the place is still another.

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

The Steraloids site is a great read though. Check it out. Looks

like beta-Nol is there too, for what it\'s worth.

Oscar /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Jones
10-15-2003, 04:54 PM
that is beta nol

oscar
10-15-2003, 07:36 PM
Jones,

Bear with

me. I don\'t have a degree in chemistry, but I do have a question I feel you can answer. However, I may not be

able to understand the answer unless you can put it in layman\'s terms, but I\'m going to give it a shot

anyway.

If what that abstract refers to as Androstadienol (5,16,-Androstadien-3beta-ol) is what WE would refer to

as beta nol, what then is the 5alpha-Androst-16-en-3beta-ol (that they call \"3 beta-Androstenol\") that occurs in

much lower quantities in sweat than what they call Androstadienol?

Oscar

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

Jones
10-15-2003, 09:22 PM
\"If what that

abstract refers to as Androstadienol (5,16,-Androstadien-3beta-ol) is what WE would refer to as beta nol, what then

is the 5alpha-Androst-16-en-3beta-ol (that they call \"3 beta-Androstenol\") that occurs in much lower quantities

in sweat than what they call Androstadienol? \"

Yes, that 5,16,-Androstadien-3beta-ol is beta nol,



and


5alpha-Androst-16-en-3beta-ol is what we call just \'nol\'


Does that answer your q?

DrSmellThis
10-16-2003, 05:51 AM
Androstadienol:-nol::A1:-none

Theoretically, you would want to combine -dienol and -nol to get a more holistic

effect, and -dienol would convert to -nol.

Jones
10-16-2003, 11:40 AM
Not in this decade

though

DrSmellThis
10-16-2003, 04:59 PM
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
\"If what that abstract refers to as

Androstadienol (5,16,-Androstadien-3beta-ol) is what WE would refer to as beta nol, what then is the

5alpha-Androst-16-en-3beta-ol (that they call \"3 beta-Androstenol\") that occurs in much lower quantities in

sweat than what they call Androstadienol? \"

Yes, that 5,16,-Androstadien-3beta-ol is beta nol,



and


5alpha-Androst-16-en-3beta-ol is what we call just \'nol\'


Does that answer

your q?


<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
That indeed answers the question, Mr. Jones, but

unfortunately, incorrectly on both counts. What we here call -nol is in fact: 5 alpha-Androst-16-en-3-alpha-ol. I

believe Oscar is instead correct, regarding the chemical referred to as beta-nol. What was that unhelpful

\'decade\' comment about? As far as I know, -dienol is indeed a precursor to -nol, via the normal pathways from

pregnenolone; just as -dienone is for -none. How is this not correct?

But if you understand it while we do

not, please trace your understanding of the pathways for us, starting with cholesterol, so we can understand how

your version of the chemistry differs. That would be helpful to others.

Here is a relevant study from the

Journal of Steroid Biochemistry that portrays the conversion pathway to be as I said it

was:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&amp;db=PubMed&amp;list_uids=114576 60

&amp;dopt=Abstract (\"http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&amp;db=PubMed&amp;list_uids=114576 60&

amp;dopt=Abstract\")

Here is an excerpt:

</font><blockquote><font

class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
We wanted to determine the precise biosynthetic pathway of androstenol and

other closely related steroids. Using transformed human embryonic kidney (HEK-293) cells that stably express 3

beta-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase, 5 alpha-reductase and 3 alpha-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase, we have shown that

these enzymes are able to efficiently transform the precursor 5,16-androstadien-3 beta-ol into androstenol. We thus

provided evidence that androstenol, the ligand for CAR and PXR, is produced by the biosynthetic pathway of sex

steroids.


<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

Here is another relevant Journal of Steroid

Biochemistry article for good

measure.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&amp;db=PubMed&amp;list_uids=82409

78&amp;dopt=Abstract (\"http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&amp;db=PubMed&amp;list_uids=82409

78&amp;dopt=Abstract\")

Jones
10-16-2003, 06:07 PM
That indeed answers

the question, Mr. Jones, but unfortunately, incorrectly on both counts. What we here call -nol is in fact: 5

alpha-Androst-16-en-3-alpha-ol. I believe Oscar is instead correct, regarding the chemical referred to as beta-nol.

What was that unhelpful \'decade\' comment about? As far as I know, -dienol is indeed a precursor to -nol, via

the normal pathways from pregnenolone; just as -dienone is for -none. How is this not correct?


5

alpha-Androst-16-en-3-alpha-ol and
5 alpha-Androst-16-en-3-beta-ol are isomers and are virtually the

same molecule. That said, the latter was shown to have almost NO activity in the VNO.

The difference is a

109 degree roation of that 3 hydroxy group. They would have the same value in the VNO/membrane, they are too

structurally related.

Check Figure 2 ;

http://www.naturalattraction.com/NEW/s/6.html (\"http://www.naturalattraction.com/NEW/s/6.html\")
Its

black and white

The dienol is the beta-nol; you can see its structure in the erox paper.


Regarding

your statement about conversion, in order for 5-ene to get to the the fully reduced form, you would need appreciable

amounts of 5-4 isomerase, and 5 alpha reductase.

You are correct about the synthesis, but most enzymes are

type specific as to which way the got (ox or redux), and we all know that 54 isomerase and 5AR do not exist in

appreciable amounts on the skin.


Of course, dienes are in equilibrium with there unsaturated

counterparts, but of course its like 1 to a trillion.

The purpose of statement was simply to inform people

that worrying about conversion is not needed, and will only complicate an already complicated

idea.


5,16-androstadien-3 beta-ol = beta nol -- If your unconvinced read the paper that published its

activity, by erox



also, \"using transformed human embryonic kidney (HEK-293) cells that stably

express 3 beta-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase, 5 alpha-reductase and 3 alpha-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase, we have

shown that these enzymes are able to efficiently transform the precursor 5,16-androstadien-3 beta-ol into

androstenol.\"

The kidney is not part of the integumentary system, thus we are not concerned about topical

use of pheromones based on this study.

DrSmellThis
10-17-2003, 06:11 AM
Hemmmm! Hawwwww!

Hemmmmmmmm! Hhaaaaaaaaawwww! Gobbbbelty Goook! Gobbelty gobbelty gobbelty! How\'s that for English? Lets see,

different is different, you\'re obscuring with technical...some of comments are irrelevant, skin conversions are

more complex with aerobic bacteria, you contradicted yourself again, we don\'t know how a vs. b activate the VNO,

-nol conversion starts at 20 min (heavy near apocrine...), the diagram doesn\'t show that, and...Oh, never mind. I

need some oxycodone, or is it oxycontin? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif Humility school is not

a river in Egypt /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif.

CptKipling
10-17-2003, 09:31 AM
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
That said, the latter was shown to have almost NO

activity in the VNO.

The difference is a 109 degree roation of that 3 hydroxy group. They would have the same

value in the VNO/membrane, they are too structurally related.

<hr /></blockquote><font

class=\"post\">

Isn\'t that a slight contradiction?

Jones, I know you a clever, but please dont write

speculating outside of your field (the VNO) right next to statements about chemistry, it\'s very confusing.

Doc

smell is right, conversions in this case are not as simple as your understanding of how they work. On the skin most

of the conversions are by bacterial flora, which is a whole new mess of squirrels

Jones
10-17-2003, 11:25 AM
\"They would have

the same value in the VNO/membrane, they are too structurally related. \"

I meant

\"They \'should\' have

the same value in the VNO/membrane, they are too structurally related.\"

I standby that statement. The

experiment showed too large a difference.

And who puts pheromones on there skin? Your clothes are right there.

The bacteria/enzyme conversion issue can easily be bypassed.

DrSmellThis
10-17-2003, 01:46 PM
Listen to what I

meant, not what I say! I know I am what are you? Mommmm! Sissie\'s touching me! Make her

stop!

Hahahaaaahahaahaahahahahahahahahahaaaaaaaaaa! Hehehe...

OK, now that that\'s out of my system, the VNO

may well have zilch to do with the pheromonal effect of -nol, which is anyway obviously a smokescreen issue. That

180 rotate will radically change the vibration of the molecule, (as well as changing the key structure), which in

olfaction appears to be important. Pheromax has a study showing a difference in effect.

Yeah! Who puts pheromones

on their skin anyway? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif Boobie boobie boobie

boo boo!

Even if I am WWWRRRRROONNNNGGGGGGG! -GAA!

That is fun to say! Try it folks, come on, real loud,

\"WWWRRRRROONNNNGGGGGGG! -GAAA!\"

Heee Hawwww hHeee HawWWW! Arff! Arff! Arf!

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Holmes
10-17-2003, 01:58 PM
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Dr. SmellDiz, you hellafunkin like a telefunken! You be

throwin\' dooooownnnn, money! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif I was pizzed in da picture

but now I gots ta smile. Props!


Holmes

DrSmellThis
10-17-2003, 02:07 PM
A little shout

out to Holmes!

Holmes
10-17-2003, 02:37 PM
Yeeea, no doubt,

Docta. Word \'em up!

Oh, wait: nanny-nanny boo-boo! (My bickering quota for today.)

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

We out.


Holmes