View Full Version : Massive confusion over different pheromones
I\'ve just started looking into this whole pheromone thing, and I keep running into conflicting reports.
Originally, I read that androstenone and androstenol were the way to go. Then I heard about Athena, and read on
their website that -none and -nol were pig pheromones and couldn\'t have any effect on humans. THEN I read another
report, from naturalattraction.com, arguing that even Athena (which allegedly contains dehydroepiandrosterone)
didn\'t have any effect, but rather only androstadienone was proved to influence human attraction. I\'d rather
not spend hundreds of dollars trying these out for myself. Does ANYONE know what the truth is?
franki
10-08-2003, 12:31 PM
You have come to the right place to find out about the truth. This forum is where real users talk about
their experiences. The talk is not limited to one or two products either. Love-Scent offers a wide array of
different phero-products that covers all of the different pheromones on the market.
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
cuddlebear
10-08-2003, 12:35 PM
None and Nol are pig pheromones? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif
Now
I\'ve heard everything ... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Seriously though, this is
the best place in the world to learn about various pheros. Not that any of us has \"the truth\", but we don\'t
represent commercial interests, we are a group of new and experienced phero users, and between us you will find
enough \"field tests\" to lead you wherever you want to go. Most of us are also eager to help through PMs, so PM
any of us if you have questions that don\'t get answered on the forum.
Cuddles
p.s. I have just
become a \"phero pro\" LOL
franki
10-08-2003, 12:47 PM
It is sort of a rumor that in the old days the pheromones that were used were actually derived from
pigs and/or for pigs... All of the stuff we are using now (including -nol and -none of course) is HUMAN pheromones
(pheromones naturally produced by humans) and is produced in a synthetical way in labs...
CptKipling
10-08-2003, 01:11 PM
But pigs produce them too because they are very similar to humans, dont forget that they have been used
as organ donors.
Take a look at the reference material at the top of your page.
Mtnjim
10-08-2003, 01:13 PM
\"None and Nol are pig pheromones?
Now I\'ve heard everything ... \"
sure they are! Nature
is very efficient, (why do you think men have nipples?)same ~mones, just different codeing.
Thanks for the info so far. But now I\'m wondering if any of you have tried Athena or Natural
Attraction (again, neither one of which contains androstenone/nol). Do these work? What kind of effects do they have
vs., say, Alter Ego?
Also, what would happen if I used Alter Ego, Athena, AND Natural Attraction all at once?
MysteriousMan
10-08-2003, 02:07 PM
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Then I heard about Athena, and read on
their website that -none and -nol were pig pheromones
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
This is
absolutely correct. And now guess why women domesticated pigs instead of other animals thousands of years ago?
Because we share the same pheromones.
MysteriosMan
I know I shouldn\'t have said this
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif
Brian
10-09-2003, 03:44 AM
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
But now I\'m wondering if any of you
have tried Athena or Natural Attraction (again, neither one of which contains androstenone/nol). Do these work? What
kind of effects do they have vs., say, Alter Ego?
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
I\'ve tried
Athena\'s 10X for men. I mixed it as directed, used it for about 4 months and got no results at all.
AE, was
the first phero product that worked for me. The best thing about it is there is no messing around with mixing it
with something else, to make it work. It didn\'t work right away for me, but after about 2 weeks of use, I started
getting really good results. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
Brian
Sunny
10-09-2003, 04:09 AM
Brian, why do you think it took two weeks?
Did you change anything during this time? Did your
attitude change? What dosage did you use over that time and how much do you use now and where do you apply?
I am
in the experimentation phase with different products. Have received only very very sublte reactions yet. I find it
hard to stick with AE for 2 weeks, rather try something different every day. But I don\'t seem to get
anywhere...
Sunny
Brian
10-09-2003, 06:40 AM
Sunny,
I\'m married and my target is always around me. My guess is that my AE usage confused
her in the beginning. Although I had used phero products long before I ever used AE, I believe AE was the first
phero product that had an affect on her. I think that she sensed that there was something different about me that
didn\'t fit with what she was accustomed to. Over a period of time and exposure, I believe that the new me became
believable to her and that\'s when I got noticable results. I\'m not positive that this was the reason but,
it\'s the only explanation that makes sense to me.
I\'m not sure that this would be the case with
strangers because they don\'t know who you are, therefore, would not be able to distinguish that something is
different about you or not. It also could be that people instinctively can sense something about you doesn\'t fit.
If that\'s the case, I believe that extended use of a good product, will work on strangers as well, after using it
for a period of time. Something to consider anyway.
I don\'t agree with changing what your using every day.
For me, it\'s better to give the dosage of a product, a chance to work. Changing things on a daily basis, makes it
more confusing. I went with 3 drops for the 2 weeks. I put a drop on each pulse point of my neck, and one drop on my
wrists, rubbing the two together. I did nothing different on day 14, than I did on day one.
I really
don\'t use AE that much anymore because P-10, packs a bigger punch, and I don\'t have to use as much, and I get
more intense reactions from it. I hope this all makes sense to you. I know I had trouble writing this in a way that
makes sense. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif
Brian
Sunny
10-09-2003, 06:57 AM
Brian,
what you write makes perfect sense to me now.
In your case it may have taken time for your
wife to unconsciously accept her new perception.
In my case, as you say, I may need time to get used to how I
perceive myself and act consitently with my pheromone signature. I realize that wearing mones does have effects on
myself even when I am alone. Maybe these effects need time to go deeper into my personality.
It\'s hard not to
play with all the different products and mixes and just stick to maybe 3 drops of AE for a while. But I think you
are right and I will try that.
P10 is not only more concentrated than AE, but according to the calculator
it\'s a different mix: It has a higher percentage (relative) of -none. So IMHO it is likely to give you stronger
-none based effects (not that I had tried it or would be qualified to say this...).
Thank you for your
advice!
Sunny
jvkohl
10-09-2003, 07:14 AM
Androstenol has been shown to alter levels of luteinizing hormone (LH) in women. Men\'s axillary
(underarm) secretions have been shown to contain androstenol, and have been shown to alter levels of LH and mood in
women. Some behavioral studies also indicate that androstenol is a human pheromone, but behavioral studies pale by
comparison to biological measures that correlate with effects of pheromones in other mammals.
In response to Dr. Kohl\'s last post, I recently read that Androstenol oxidizes to Androstenone in
about 20 minutes. Is there any way to slow down the oxidizing process? Also, why is so little known about
androsterone?
MysteriousMan
10-11-2003, 09:49 AM
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
In response to Dr. Kohl\'s last post,
I recently read that Androstenol oxidizes to Androstenone in about 20 minutes. Is there any way to slow down the
oxidizing process? Also, why is so little known about androsterone?
<hr /></blockquote><font
class=\"post\">
Where?
If this happened in the bottles, nobody could sell it.
If this happened on mens skin,
nobody could observe that it makes women talkative.
I\'m sure there is such an effect, but I can\'t believe
that it happens in 20 minutes.
MysteriousMan
Here\'s the link to the study. It says in here that -nol oxidizes to -none in 20
mins.
http://cogprints.ecs.soto
n.ac.uk/archive/00002164/00/NEL220501R01_.pdf (\"http://cogprints.ecs.soton.ac.uk/archive/00002164/00/NEL220501R01_.pdf\")
Also, the study finds that -none can be offensive to women, and since I\'m a little risk averse when
it comes to this whole pheromone thing, I\'m wondering whether I should invest in a -nol product or a -nol + -rone
product. Any suggestions?
krtel
10-11-2003, 10:45 AM
Hi Naja,
I\'m going to clarify some things for you, OK? :-)
1. Androstenone and
androstenol are awesome pheromones, but for your specific body chemistry, they may not neccessarily be the way to go
- you need to try various mixes of pheromones to determine which pheromones are right for you.
2. Only buy
Athena if you\'re interesting in getting ripped off. (It\'s not a legit product, which is why Love Scent
doesen\'t sell it.)
3.androstadienone (A1) has been reported to put women in a very good mood, but can be
detrimental to a guy\'s mood. I don\'t suggest that someone new with pheromones try it initially.
4. The
people on this forum are hardcore experimenters and experienced pheromone users - our advice is pretty much on
target. Therefore, I advise you to read around the forum, and feel free to ask questions that you don\'t see have
already been answered.
5. Love Scent\'s products carry a money-back guarentee if you aren\'t happy with
the product you buy.
Other than that, welcome to the real deal! :-)
Krish
Jones
10-11-2003, 10:51 AM
\"The situation is more complicated because producing
androstenol inevitably produces
androstenone.
The androstenone production has a disadvantage
because of its unpleasantness.
Attractiveness-enhancing
androstenol immediately oxidizes to androstenone,
which repels females. A non-producing
male
could do quite well in a population of producers,
because females would not be repelled by his
body
odor\"
All alcohols eventually become ketones. It just happends at slow enough rate that we will be
dead before they do.
The writters of this articles either A. misinterpreted someone, or B, is spreading
propaganda.
I am suprised JVK has pointed out this gross error. If alcohol oxidizes when exposed to oxygen...
the world would be radically differnt.
You couldnt drink alcohol, becuase it would not be alchol after you poured
it.
Nobody could buy the prohormone 4AD, because it would immediatly convert to testosterone once it was exposed
to air.
You essentially, would die. Most biological functions require the -OH group, as it is essential for
almost every single thing that happends in the body.
It is a flagrant statement, with absolutely nothing to back
it up.
To disproove them, all your would have to do is take .5 mg\'s of nol, dissolve in acetone, and perform
IR. A peak will apear at 3100.
You really wouldnt even have to do that.
Im really not sure how much of this
people understand, being a chemistry person.
But its like saying,
\"Grapes arent a pheromones, becuase they
turn in to raisins and are thus useless.\"
MysteriousMan
10-11-2003, 11:20 AM
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Here\'s the link to the study. It
says in here that -nol oxidizes to -none in 20
mins.
http://cogprints.ecs.soto
n.ac.uk/archive/00002164/00/NEL220501R01_.pdf (\"http://cogprints.ecs.soton.ac.uk/archive/00002164/00/NEL220501R01_.pdf\")
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
This paper
quotes a \"result\" of a study, but doesn\'t quote the conditions of the study (On skin? With catalysts?...).
(JVK, you should cite with more accuracy in papers).
Has anybody the cited study by hand?
In the cookbook, some
conditions are mentioned:
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
- -nol to -none
conversion
There have been a lot of discussions in the forum about this issue... The truth is that the
conversion from -nol to -none does happen, but it won\'t be a big issue for -nol products users. Androstenol
(which is a secondary alcohol) differs from androstenone (which is a ketone) because of two hydrogen atoms that the
latter lacks: these can be converted to water if an adequate catalyst is present. The chemical reaction would be as
follows:
C19H30O (androstenol) + (oxygen) = C19H28O (androstenone) + H2O
Luckily, in the usual wearing
conditions, there isn\'t a catalyst strong enough to make this reaction happen fast, so the -nol will anyway
convert to -none since it\'s exposed to oxidation, but it\'s going to happen very slowly. To get the idea SoE,
which contains -nol, is reported to first show signs of -none alteration only after 8 hours from first
application.
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
MysteriousMan
cuddlebear
10-11-2003, 11:26 AM
I\'m not a chemist, but if Nol to None doesn\'t happen any faster than grape to raisin, I\'m OK,
I would have showered by then anyways ... aren\'t you all relieved?
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Seriously, if there were any truth to the 20 min thing,
then it would render NOL useless. I used to put very large amounts of NOL on and if it all had turned to PI in 20
mins I think I would have noticed ...
Interesting stuff, but I\'m sure that one of our longtime phero
users on the forum would have discovered something like this a long time ago ...
Cuddles
cuddlebear
10-11-2003, 11:37 AM
Something else ... once again I\'m not a chemist, but isn\'t any kind of oxidation a SLOW process
?? A car does rust but not in 20 mins ...
Cuddles
MysteriousMan
10-11-2003, 11:46 AM
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Something else ... once again I\'m
not a chemist, but isn\'t any kind of oxidation a SLOW process ?? A car does rust but not in 20 mins ...
Cuddles
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
Burning is oxidation.
The oxidation of wood
somewhat depends on the conditions (with or without a burning match :-)
This is why it absolutely makes no sense to
talk about oxidation time without conditions.
MysteriousMan
CptKipling
10-11-2003, 02:52 PM
To bottom line that stupid statement (by the writer of the article):
How can they talk about -nol as
a pheromone when they say in the same study that it oxidises instantly?
HELLO?!
That means that -nol can only
exist when it isnt exposed to oxygen, i.e no normal place on earth.
Thanks to all of you for helping to clear things up for me. Unfortunately, I remain a little
confused/ignorant, so maybe explaining my situation will help.
About 6 months ago I kissed a good friend of
mine (we\'d known each other for three years). We had talked about going out, but she was abroad and expressed
some ambivalence when she came back to the US. I can tell she\'s still ambivalent, so what I really want is a
chance to kiss her again and see if I can reignite any of that initial spark-age. If she still says no, then I\'ll
just move on. But, really, I just want one more chance. I know my personal chemistry is a big factor, but do you
guys know if there\'s a product that might be appropriately suited to my situation (i.e., good friends, there\'s
already some attraction, just need a big enough push)?
Thanks,
N
CptKipling
10-11-2003, 03:28 PM
Ok here goes.
First of all, it\'s mostly pointless us to try to cater for a certain cition that
you are in, because we dont know what you are like and what you really need pheromone wise. The best thing
you can do is experiment and find out what product or mix fits in with your personal chemistry and
personality.
One of my favourite combos (and possibly the best one around) is AE with TE and SOE. If you
buy AE and TE (about $80), you will get two great products that give great versatility in combos and that are very
usable on their own. You will also get a free gel pack so you can try out the AE/SOE/TE combo
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif.
JohnnyM
10-16-2003, 10:19 PM
I have been searching these forums for good tips on what to try next and thanks to CptKipling here
I\'ve made my choice. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif I don’t want to have to spend time mixing
and matching various doses every time I wish to go out. I’d really like to keep things simple. I’ll be ordering a
new bottle of AE/m (my current one is 2/3\'s gone) and TE. I was seriously thinking of trying SOE, but since
orders currently come with a couple gel packs, I\'ll give those a try as well.
Thanks for the great posts and
very useful information CptKipling! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
CptKipling
10-17-2003, 09:21 AM
Not a problem Johnny! Thanks for the kind workds
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Did you see my post about using TE and AE? Might be of use
to you.
JohnnyM
10-17-2003, 09:38 AM
I may have, let me check my favorites, but in case I do not have it on my list, can you drop me a link
here or via PM?
EDIT: Yep, I have one thread that discussed the mix you use in it, so I got it!
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif Whoohoo!
CptKipling
10-17-2003, 09:47 AM
Just in case we are talking about different things, it\'s
here. (\"http://www.server2.love-scent.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB5&Number=97479&Forum=UB B
5&Words=TE%20AE&Match=And&Searchpage=0&Limit=25&Ol d=1week&Main=97473&Search=true#Post974
79\")
JohnnyM
10-17-2003, 09:52 AM
Got it saved, thanks! By the way I actually ordered SoE and TE since I still have a little less than
half a bottle of AE/m left (I\'ll order another in a couple weeks). Is the scent of SoE strong? I notice it comes
in a musk scent.
Sagacious1420
10-17-2003, 02:53 PM
Personally, I don\'t think it\'s nearly as strong as the (new) AE.
Holmes
10-17-2003, 03:04 PM
I agree. SOE\'s scent is on the lighter side and tends to fade pretty quickly. For some reason,
I\'ve preferred the gel over the oil. The scent seems...crisper somehow. I dunno...
Holmes
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