Massive confusion over different pheromones [Archive]

Naja

10-08-2003, 12:19 PM

I\'ve just started looking into this whole pheromone thing, and I keep running into conflicting reports.

Originally, I read that androstenone and androstenol were the way to go. Then I heard about Athena, and read on

their website that -none and -nol were pig pheromones and couldn\'t have any effect on humans. THEN I read another

report, from naturalattraction.com, arguing that even Athena (which allegedly contains dehydroepiandrosterone)

didn\'t have any effect, but rather only androstadienone was proved to influence human attraction. I\'d rather

not spend hundreds of dollars trying these out for myself. Does ANYONE know what the truth is?

franki

10-08-2003, 12:31 PM

You have come to the right place to find out about the truth. This forum is where real users talk about

their experiences. The talk is not limited to one or two products either. Love-Scent offers a wide array of

different phero-products that covers all of the different pheromones on the market.

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

cuddlebear

10-08-2003, 12:35 PM

None and Nol are pig pheromones? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

Now

I\'ve heard everything ... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Seriously though, this is

the best place in the world to learn about various pheros. Not that any of us has \"the truth\", but we don\'t

represent commercial interests, we are a group of new and experienced phero users, and between us you will find

enough \"field tests\" to lead you wherever you want to go. Most of us are also eager to help through PMs, so PM

any of us if you have questions that don\'t get answered on the forum.

Cuddles

p.s. I have just

become a \"phero pro\" LOL

franki

10-08-2003, 12:47 PM

It is sort of a rumor that in the old days the pheromones that were used were actually derived from

pigs and/or for pigs... All of the stuff we are using now (including -nol and -none of course) is HUMAN pheromones

(pheromones naturally produced by humans) and is produced in a synthetical way in labs...

CptKipling

10-08-2003, 01:11 PM

But pigs produce them too because they are very similar to humans, dont forget that they have been used

as organ donors.

Take a look at the reference material at the top of your page.

Mtnjim

10-08-2003, 01:13 PM

\"None and Nol are pig pheromones?

Now I\'ve heard everything ... \"

sure they are! Nature

is very efficient, (why do you think men have nipples?)same ~mones, just different codeing.

Naja

10-08-2003, 01:40 PM

Thanks for the info so far. But now I\'m wondering if any of you have tried Athena or Natural

Attraction (again, neither one of which contains androstenone/nol). Do these work? What kind of effects do they have

vs., say, Alter Ego?

Also, what would happen if I used Alter Ego, Athena, AND Natural Attraction all at once?

MysteriousMan

10-08-2003, 02:07 PM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Then I heard about Athena, and read on

their website that -none and -nol were pig pheromones

<hr /></blockquote>
This is

absolutely correct. And now guess why women domesticated pigs instead of other animals thousands of years ago?

Because we share the same pheromones.

MysteriosMan

I know I shouldn\'t have said this

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif

Brian

10-09-2003, 03:44 AM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
But now I\'m wondering if any of you

have tried Athena or Natural Attraction (again, neither one of which contains androstenone/nol). Do these work? What

kind of effects do they have vs., say, Alter Ego?

<hr /></blockquote>

I\'ve tried

Athena\'s 10X for men. I mixed it as directed, used it for about 4 months and got no results at all.

AE, was

the first phero product that worked for me. The best thing about it is there is no messing around with mixing it

with something else, to make it work. It didn\'t work right away for me, but after about 2 weeks of use, I started

getting really good results. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Brian

Sunny

10-09-2003, 04:09 AM

Brian, why do you think it took two weeks?

Did you change anything during this time? Did your

attitude change? What dosage did you use over that time and how much do you use now and where do you apply?

I am

in the experimentation phase with different products. Have received only very very sublte reactions yet. I find it

hard to stick with AE for 2 weeks, rather try something different every day. But I don\'t seem to get

anywhere...

Sunny

Brian

10-09-2003, 06:40 AM

Sunny,

I\'m married and my target is always around me. My guess is that my AE usage confused

her in the beginning. Although I had used phero products long before I ever used AE, I believe AE was the first

phero product that had an affect on her. I think that she sensed that there was something different about me that

didn\'t fit with what she was accustomed to. Over a period of time and exposure, I believe that the new me became

believable to her and that\'s when I got noticable results. I\'m not positive that this was the reason but,

it\'s the only explanation that makes sense to me.

I\'m not sure that this would be the case with

strangers because they don\'t know who you are, therefore, would not be able to distinguish that something is

different about you or not. It also could be that people instinctively can sense something about you doesn\'t fit.

If that\'s the case, I believe that extended use of a good product, will work on strangers as well, after using it

for a period of time. Something to consider anyway.

I don\'t agree with changing what your using every day.

For me, it\'s better to give the dosage of a product, a chance to work. Changing things on a daily basis, makes it

more confusing. I went with 3 drops for the 2 weeks. I put a drop on each pulse point of my neck, and one drop on my

wrists, rubbing the two together. I did nothing different on day 14, than I did on day one.

I really

don\'t use AE that much anymore because P-10, packs a bigger punch, and I don\'t have to use as much, and I get

more intense reactions from it. I hope this all makes sense to you. I know I had trouble writing this in a way that

makes sense. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

Brian

Sunny

10-09-2003, 06:57 AM

Brian,

what you write makes perfect sense to me now.
In your case it may have taken time for your

wife to unconsciously accept her new perception.

In my case, as you say, I may need time to get used to how I

perceive myself and act consitently with my pheromone signature. I realize that wearing mones does have effects on

myself even when I am alone. Maybe these effects need time to go deeper into my personality.

It\'s hard not to

play with all the different products and mixes and just stick to maybe 3 drops of AE for a while. But I think you

are right and I will try that.

P10 is not only more concentrated than AE, but according to the calculator

it\'s a different mix: It has a higher percentage (relative) of -none. So IMHO it is likely to give you stronger

-none based effects (not that I had tried it or would be qualified to say this...).

Thank you for your

advice!

Sunny

jvkohl

10-09-2003, 07:14 AM

Androstenol has been shown to alter levels of luteinizing hormone (LH) in women. Men\'s axillary

(underarm) secretions have been shown to contain androstenol, and have been shown to alter levels of LH and mood in

women. Some behavioral studies also indicate that androstenol is a human pheromone, but behavioral studies pale by

comparison to biological measures that correlate with effects of pheromones in other mammals.

Naja

10-11-2003, 09:39 AM

In response to Dr. Kohl\'s last post, I recently read that Androstenol oxidizes to Androstenone in

about 20 minutes. Is there any way to slow down the oxidizing process? Also, why is so little known about

androsterone?

MysteriousMan

10-11-2003, 09:49 AM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
In response to Dr. Kohl\'s last post,

I recently read that Androstenol oxidizes to Androstenone in about 20 minutes. Is there any way to slow down the

oxidizing process? Also, why is so little known about androsterone?

<hr /></blockquote>
Where?
If this happened in the bottles, nobody could sell it.
If this happened on mens skin,

nobody could observe that it makes women talkative.
I\'m sure there is such an effect, but I can\'t believe

that it happens in 20 minutes.

MysteriousMan

Naja

10-11-2003, 09:56 AM

Here\'s the link to the study. It says in here that -nol oxidizes to -none in 20

mins.

http://cogprints.ecs.soto

n.ac.uk/archive/00002164/00/NEL220501R01_.pdf (\"http://cogprints.ecs.soton.ac.uk/archive/00002164/00/NEL220501R01_.pdf\")

Naja

10-11-2003, 09:58 AM

Also, the study finds that -none can be offensive to women, and since I\'m a little risk averse when

it comes to this whole pheromone thing, I\'m wondering whether I should invest in a -nol product or a -nol + -rone

product. Any suggestions?

krtel

10-11-2003, 10:45 AM

Hi Naja,

I\'m going to clarify some things for you, OK? :-)

1. Androstenone and

androstenol are awesome pheromones, but for your specific body chemistry, they may not neccessarily be the way to go

- you need to try various mixes of pheromones to determine which pheromones are right for you.

2. Only buy

Athena if you\'re interesting in getting ripped off. (It\'s not a legit product, which is why Love Scent

doesen\'t sell it.)

3.androstadienone (A1) has been reported to put women in a very good mood, but can be

detrimental to a guy\'s mood. I don\'t suggest that someone new with pheromones try it initially.

4. The

people on this forum are hardcore experimenters and experienced pheromone users - our advice is pretty much on

target. Therefore, I advise you to read around the forum, and feel free to ask questions that you don\'t see have

already been answered.

5. Love Scent\'s products carry a money-back guarentee if you aren\'t happy with

the product you buy.

Other than that, welcome to the real deal! :-)

Krish

Jones

10-11-2003, 10:51 AM

\"The situation is more complicated because producing
androstenol inevitably produces

androstenone.
The androstenone production has a disadvantage
because of its unpleasantness.

Attractiveness-enhancing
androstenol immediately oxidizes to androstenone,
which repels females. A non-producing

male
could do quite well in a population of producers,
because females would not be repelled by his

body
odor\"

All alcohols eventually become ketones. It just happends at slow enough rate that we will be

dead before they do.

The writters of this articles either A. misinterpreted someone, or B, is spreading

propaganda.

I am suprised JVK has pointed out this gross error. If alcohol oxidizes when exposed to oxygen...

the world would be radically differnt.

You couldnt drink alcohol, becuase it would not be alchol after you poured

it.

Nobody could buy the prohormone 4AD, because it would immediatly convert to testosterone once it was exposed

to air.

You essentially, would die. Most biological functions require the -OH group, as it is essential for

almost every single thing that happends in the body.

It is a flagrant statement, with absolutely nothing to back

it up.

To disproove them, all your would have to do is take .5 mg\'s of nol, dissolve in acetone, and perform

IR. A peak will apear at 3100.

You really wouldnt even have to do that.

Im really not sure how much of this

people understand, being a chemistry person.

But its like saying,

\"Grapes arent a pheromones, becuase they

turn in to raisins and are thus useless.\"

MysteriousMan

10-11-2003, 11:20 AM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Here\'s the link to the study. It

says in here that -nol oxidizes to -none in 20

mins.

http://cogprints.ecs.soto

n.ac.uk/archive/00002164/00/NEL220501R01_.pdf (\"http://cogprints.ecs.soton.ac.uk/archive/00002164/00/NEL220501R01_.pdf\")

<hr /></blockquote>

This paper

quotes a \"result\" of a study, but doesn\'t quote the conditions of the study (On skin? With catalysts?...).

(JVK, you should cite with more accuracy in papers).
Has anybody the cited study by hand?

In the cookbook, some

conditions are mentioned:

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
- -nol to -none

conversion

There have been a lot of discussions in the forum about this issue... The truth is that the

conversion from -nol to -none does happen, but it won\'t be a big issue for -nol products users. Androstenol

(which is a secondary alcohol) differs from androstenone (which is a ketone) because of two hydrogen atoms that the

latter lacks: these can be converted to water if an adequate catalyst is present. The chemical reaction would be as

follows:

C19H30O (androstenol) + (oxygen) = C19H28O (androstenone) + H2O

Luckily, in the usual wearing

conditions, there isn\'t a catalyst strong enough to make this reaction happen fast, so the -nol will anyway

convert to -none since it\'s exposed to oxidation, but it\'s going to happen very slowly. To get the idea SoE,

which contains -nol, is reported to first show signs of -none alteration only after 8 hours from first

application.

<hr /></blockquote>

MysteriousMan

cuddlebear

10-11-2003, 11:26 AM

I\'m not a chemist, but if Nol to None doesn\'t happen any faster than grape to raisin, I\'m OK,

I would have showered by then anyways ... aren\'t you all relieved?

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Seriously, if there were any truth to the 20 min thing,

then it would render NOL useless. I used to put very large amounts of NOL on and if it all had turned to PI in 20

mins I think I would have noticed ...

Interesting stuff, but I\'m sure that one of our longtime phero

users on the forum would have discovered something like this a long time ago ...

Cuddles

cuddlebear

10-11-2003, 11:37 AM

Something else ... once again I\'m not a chemist, but isn\'t any kind of oxidation a SLOW process

?? A car does rust but not in 20 mins ...

Cuddles

MysteriousMan

10-11-2003, 11:46 AM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Something else ... once again I\'m

not a chemist, but isn\'t any kind of oxidation a SLOW process ?? A car does rust but not in 20 mins ...

Cuddles

<hr /></blockquote>

Burning is oxidation.
The oxidation of wood

somewhat depends on the conditions (with or without a burning match :-)
This is why it absolutely makes no sense to

talk about oxidation time without conditions.

MysteriousMan

CptKipling

10-11-2003, 02:52 PM

To bottom line that stupid statement (by the writer of the article):

How can they talk about -nol as

a pheromone when they say in the same study that it oxidises instantly?

HELLO?!

That means that -nol can only

exist when it isnt exposed to oxygen, i.e no normal place on earth.

Naja

10-11-2003, 03:14 PM

Thanks to all of you for helping to clear things up for me. Unfortunately, I remain a little

confused/ignorant, so maybe explaining my situation will help.

About 6 months ago I kissed a good friend of

mine (we\'d known each other for three years). We had talked about going out, but she was abroad and expressed

some ambivalence when she came back to the US. I can tell she\'s still ambivalent, so what I really want is a

chance to kiss her again and see if I can reignite any of that initial spark-age. If she still says no, then I\'ll

just move on. But, really, I just want one more chance. I know my personal chemistry is a big factor, but do you

guys know if there\'s a product that might be appropriately suited to my situation (i.e., good friends, there\'s

already some attraction, just need a big enough push)?

Thanks,
N

CptKipling

10-11-2003, 03:28 PM

Ok here goes.

First of all, it\'s mostly pointless us to try to cater for a certain cition that

you are in, because we dont know what you are like and what you really need pheromone wise. The best thing

you can do is experiment and find out what product or mix fits in with your personal chemistry and

personality.

One of my favourite combos (and possibly the best one around) is AE with TE and SOE. If you

buy AE and TE (about $80), you will get two great products that give great versatility in combos and that are very

usable on their own. You will also get a free gel pack so you can try out the AE/SOE/TE combo

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif.

JohnnyM

10-16-2003, 10:19 PM

I have been searching these forums for good tips on what to try next and thanks to CptKipling here

I\'ve made my choice. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif I don’t want to have to spend time mixing

and matching various doses every time I wish to go out. I’d really like to keep things simple. I’ll be ordering a

new bottle of AE/m (my current one is 2/3\'s gone) and TE. I was seriously thinking of trying SOE, but since

orders currently come with a couple gel packs, I\'ll give those a try as well.

Thanks for the great posts and

very useful information CptKipling! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif