Some interesting results.

[Stellaris]

Well, I have discovered something very interesting, which >may< explain those people who don\'t seem to get any results from pheremones.

So first let me give you some background. I\'m a professional man (research scientist), 37, tall and fit and reasonably good looking and intelligent enough. I generally get a good deal of attention from women and I\'m good at conversation and good at seduction once I\'ve established that she\'s interested. I\'m not quite so good at the actual pick-up stage of the game, or in moving from conversation to seduction when her interest isn\'t so obvious. Social cues have to be big for me to pick up on, and my reason for trying pheremones was basically to improve these two areas by encouraging women to be more direct.

So, having read these forums extensively, I settled on AE/m and PCC as my tools of choice and got my shipment quite promptly (thanks Bruce). Just as an aside, I have to commend Bruce\'s customer service which is fast, friendly and extremely helpful. I kept a careful log of my pheremone experiments, but I\'m just going to summarize it here in narrative form.

The first step was to establish a baseline control level. Controlled experiments are dicey in the real world, so I went through a normal week with no pheremones and made careful note of my interactions with both men and women, noting eye contact, touching, smiles, general attitude, etc. with everyone I met. I also got a female friend to agree to be an a guinea pig in an un-defined psycho-sexual experiment. Interestingly enough, once I started noting behaviours I saw her display the pelvic presentation behaviour mentioned elsewhere here. I hadn\'t noticed this before, but once I started paying attention to it, I saw her doing it all the time. At first I found this flattering since I interpreted it as being directed at me (we almost dated but decided not to for mutual reasons), but as I paid attention over the week I found that she does it all the time, and usually sits with her legs apart in any situation. She\'s kind of tomboyish and this is a more masculine posture, so this may be the explanation. In any event it wasn\'t me, but had I first noticed this behaviour immediately after trying pheremones I would certainly have linked them as cause and effect.

This observation really underscores the value of controlled studies. She obviously had this behaviour long before I noticed it, its just what she does. The real world is hardly a controlled environment, and its generally impossible to replicate experimental conditions precisely. Just for example, self confidence is known to increase attractiveness, and if wearing pheremones increases your self confidence it will increase your attractiveness even if the pheremones themselves aren\'t having any direct effect on the other side of the table. (Not that this is a bad thing). As we search for understanding here we have to be very careful to avoid fooling ourselves as to cause and effect.

That said, I developed my baseline levels of interaction and interest, and then with great anticipation, took my pheremones for a test drive. As per this forum\'s advice I took it slowly, starting with 3 drops of AE/M and six inches PCC and working up from there, allowing half an hour to settle before going out. I found no obvious difference in anyone\'s behaviour and so began increasing dosages in slow increments and varying application (on clothes, on pulse points and both). I tried AE/m alone and together with PCC. As I got up to the five, six, seven and ten drop level I began to worry about OD effects, but people\'s responses were absolutely flat - no DIHLs, no attention above and beyond what I normally get, no unusual negative reactions, no noticable effects on my own mood or behaviour. I experimented more or less constantly over four weeks, in one-one-one situations, at parties, casual social situations, everything, with no response. I was obviously one of those unfortunates for whom pheremones don\'t work. The question was - why? Possibilites...

1) My body chemistry
2) Something else about me counteracting the effects.
3) Pheremones really don\'t work at all and everyone else is fooling themselves.
4) The reactions are there, but so subtle I\'m not noticing them. (After all, I\'m doing this because I\'m not so good at picking up subtle sex cues)
5) Pheremones in general work but AE/m doesn\'t.

So...

Body chemistry I eliminated by applying pheremones to my clothing in various ways, including new clothing that I\'d never worn before.

Something else about me. - Difficult to eliminate entirely, but - if \'mones work as advertised and given that I already get a decent amount of female attention, it can\'t be something so simple as me being so repulsive that I simply am not getting credit for being the source of the sexy scent.

Everyone else is deluded. - More possible than I\'m sure anyone on here would want to admit - but science is full of examples of the will to believe triumphing over the evidence. Cold fusion, shark cartilage - I could go on. Still, I\'ve researched pheremones in the literature and the science seems well documented, well replicated and reasonable.

Maybe I\'m just missing the cues. Entirely possible, this is my weak area, but I\'m not THAT oblivious, just not as good as in other areas. So I sat down and talked to the aforementioned female friend who had agreed to be a guinea pig. She had no idea I was wearing pheremones until I told her, but had also noticed no change in her attitude to me, no rushes of attraction at any point, nothing. Absolutely flat.

Pheremones work but AE/m doesn\'t. Seems unlikely - I chose AE/m specifically because it is a combination product, highly reccomended for beginners and because reports and surveys on here have rated it the highest in terms of getting results. If everyone is deluded they\'re deluded in a systematic way which tends to stand against the hypothesis that AE/m simply doesn\'t work.


Sooo - none of these are particularly satisfying explanations. With some degree of frustration, I decided to throw caution to the winds and go for overdose reactions, reactions so obvious that I couldn\'t miss them. Good or bad, I didn\'t care, I just wanted to see SOME kind of result. Opportunity came in the form of a festival which amounted to a week of partying, and I started with five drops AE/M (PCC I left at home) and just kept applying more until SOMETHING happened, steadily upping the dose at short intervals. Ten drops, fifteen drops, twenty drops, thirty drops - my concern ceased to be pheremone overdose and became the simple offensiveness of too much cover scent, but nevertheless I persisted. After a couple of days I was applying entire droppers full, just squirting the stuff on, and the problem began finding more places to put it. Four weeks of steady experimentation had used about a quarter of my vial of AE/M. Now I went through half a bottle in about four days.

And finally! Finally I started to get hits, with about 3-4 full droppers applied. Not DIHLs, not wild over-reactions, not group sex with the women\'s olympic swim team, but good solid hits. A woman I didn\'t really know gave me a long, sensuous backrub. Another woman came up and sat in my lap and cuddled. A third, truly gorgeous woman made her attraction quite clear and, when she finally had to go gave me a very nice kiss on the lips. Men were also quite respectful and deferential in general - one guy out of the blue gave me some cash. Someone else eagerly invited me to join their materials research team at 3M for no good reason at all (I specialize in semiconductors, which was the basis of the offer but is only vaguely related). In general there was a marked and substantial change in people\'s responses between this extreme dose period from both from my no-pheremone control period and my first experimental period using normal-to-high doses.

So my current hypothesis is simple. For some reason my bottle of AE/m is way understrength in terms of active ingredients. This isn\'t a particularly satisfying explanation either, but it DOES fit my observations compared with the experiences of other people recorded here, which would imply that 3-4 droppersfull would be a catastrophic overdose. If this were something that happened from time to time it would also explain the other poor frustrated \"pheremones don\'t work for me\" souls out there.

So there are a large number of possible reasons this might be true, including treatment during shipping, the length of time between my bottle being manufactured and my actually getting it and using it and some kind of contamination (for example skin bacteria that metabolize pheremones)getting in and ruining the pheremones. In general I kept my bottle at room temperature and in the dark and was careful to avoid contaminating the solution by leaving it uncapped or touching either the dropper or the mouth of the bottle, but I can\'t eliminate the possibility of mishandling.

Of course, this remains a hypothesis. The only way to prove it would be to analyze my bottle and demonstrate conclusively that it was in fact low on active ingredients - then it would be possible to work on figuring out why this is true. I still have a quarter bottle left that I\'d be happy to donate to either Stone Labs or Love-Scent if that would be helpful. It would also be useful if other people in the \"pheremones don\'t work for me\" category tried putting on extreme doses and seeing if they got any results this way.

Cheers all. Hope this helps and any comments or insights from more experienced users would be most welcome.

Chris

[franki]

I doubt there is anything wrong with your bottle.

You say you experimented with this on your female friend (guinea pig) and then, when results were not satisfying, got crazy with the pheromone. Testing it on only one woman and then drawing conclusions is not the way to go... Testing it on numbers of females (before applying sh!tloads of the stuff like you did) seems to be the way to go. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

[SwingerMD]

Hmmm . . . very interesting . . . .

Perhaps you did get a understrength AE/m bottle. Three to four droper fulls would definately be an OD situation in my book. I have noticed that sometimes a extra drops of -none would get me results that you got, and at other times I would get negative rxns across the board.

I\'ve also that I can put twice as much in hair gel and spread it in my hair than spread on my skin. To get rxn outdoors you also have to add more than on rxns indoors.

Perhaps you should shake the bottle well before application. This usually works well for me after the bottles have been sitting around for a while. Maybe the pheros have settled to the bottom and you may find the last 1/2 to be very strong. Hope this helps.

<font color=\"blue\"> -SwingerMD </font>

[Holmes]

Interesting experiment, puzzling results. Three to four droppers-full of AE (!) and I\'d be flappin\' my arms to the moon.

It is strange that it took so much AE to elicit a response of any kind. The amounts you were using, even prior to the ones which \"performed\" for you, should have sent out the sexual vibes of many Fabios.


Holmes

[Stellaris]

Just a couple of points - I &gt;did&lt; shake the bottle well before applying, (in fact at the end I was carrying it around so it was well jostled in my pocket) and I did ramp up slowly and steadily with many many females, not just my friend (she was just there to act as a control so I could later ask her about her reactions) Also, I forgot to mention, I did notice some effects upon me as well with the use of droppersfull of the stuff - kind of a rush and a flush which subsided fairly quickly but came back when I got a strong whiff of it.

Cheers!

Chris

[Ash]

Stellaris.

I think you\'re on to something! You could order another bottle and see what kind of results you get; like you wouldn\'t have thought of that. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif I admire your scientific mind and your HUGE BALLS!!!!!!! It\'s people like you that got us to the moon.

Ash

[DZorro]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Well, I have discovered something very interesting, which &gt;may&lt; explain those people who don\'t seem to get any results from pheremones.

So first let me give you some background. I\'m a professional man (research scientist), 37, tall and fit and reasonably good looking and intelligent enough. I generally get a good deal of attention from women and I\'m good at conversation and good at seduction once I\'ve established that she\'s interested. I\'m not quite so good at the actual pick-up stage of the game, or in moving from conversation to seduction when her interest isn\'t so obvious. Social cues have to be big for me to pick up on, and my reason for trying pheremones was basically to improve these two areas by encouraging women to be more direct.

So, having read these forums extensively, I settled on AE/m and PCC as my tools of choice and got my shipment quite promptly (thanks Bruce). Just as an aside, I have to commend Bruce\'s customer service which is fast, friendly and extremely helpful. I kept a careful log of my pheremone experiments, but I\'m just going to summarize it here in narrative form.

The first step was to establish a baseline control level. Controlled experiments are dicey in the real world, so I went through a normal week with no pheremones and made careful note of my interactions with both men and women, noting eye contact, touching, smiles, general attitude, etc. with everyone I met. I also got a female friend to agree to be an a guinea pig in an un-defined psycho-sexual experiment. Interestingly enough, once I started noting behaviours I saw her display the pelvic presentation behaviour mentioned elsewhere here. I hadn\'t noticed this before, but once I started paying attention to it, I saw her doing it all the time. At first I found this flattering since I interpreted it as being directed at me (we almost dated but decided not to for mutual reasons), but as I paid attention over the week I found that she does it all the time, and usually sits with her legs apart in any situation. She\'s kind of tomboyish and this is a more masculine posture, so this may be the explanation. In any event it wasn\'t me, but had I first noticed this behaviour immediately after trying pheremones I would certainly have linked them as cause and effect.

This observation really underscores the value of controlled studies. She obviously had this behaviour long before I noticed it, its just what she does. The real world is hardly a controlled environment, and its generally impossible to replicate experimental conditions precisely. Just for example, self confidence is known to increase attractiveness, and if wearing pheremones increases your self confidence it will increase your attractiveness even if the pheremones themselves aren\'t having any direct effect on the other side of the table. (Not that this is a bad thing). As we search for understanding here we have to be very careful to avoid fooling ourselves as to cause and effect.

That said, I developed my baseline levels of interaction and interest, and then with great anticipation, took my pheremones for a test drive. As per this forum\'s advice I took it slowly, starting with 3 drops of AE/M and six inches PCC and working up from there, allowing half an hour to settle before going out. I found no obvious difference in anyone\'s behaviour and so began increasing dosages in slow increments and varying application (on clothes, on pulse points and both). I tried AE/m alone and together with PCC. As I got up to the five, six, seven and ten drop level I began to worry about OD effects, but people\'s responses were absolutely flat - no DIHLs, no attention above and beyond what I normally get, no unusual negative reactions, no noticable effects on my own mood or behaviour. I experimented more or less constantly over four weeks, in one-one-one situations, at parties, casual social situations, everything, with no response. I was obviously one of those unfortunates for whom pheremones don\'t work. The question was - why? Possibilites...

1) My body chemistry
2) Something else about me counteracting the effects.
3) Pheremones really don\'t work at all and everyone else is fooling themselves.
4) The reactions are there, but so subtle I\'m not noticing them. (After all, I\'m doing this because I\'m not so good at picking up subtle sex cues)
5) Pheremones in general work but AE/m doesn\'t.

So...

Body chemistry I eliminated by applying pheremones to my clothing in various ways, including new clothing that I\'d never worn before.

Something else about me. - Difficult to eliminate entirely, but - if \'mones work as advertised and given that I already get a decent amount of female attention, it can\'t be something so simple as me being so repulsive that I simply am not getting credit for being the source of the sexy scent.

Everyone else is deluded. - More possible than I\'m sure anyone on here would want to admit - but science is full of examples of the will to believe triumphing over the evidence. Cold fusion, shark cartilage - I could go on. Still, I\'ve researched pheremones in the literature and the science seems well documented, well replicated and reasonable.

Maybe I\'m just missing the cues. Entirely possible, this is my weak area, but I\'m not THAT oblivious, just not as good as in other areas. So I sat down and talked to the aforementioned female friend who had agreed to be a guinea pig. She had no idea I was wearing pheremones until I told her, but had also noticed no change in her attitude to me, no rushes of attraction at any point, nothing. Absolutely flat.

Pheremones work but AE/m doesn\'t. Seems unlikely - I chose AE/m specifically because it is a combination product, highly reccomended for beginners and because reports and surveys on here have rated it the highest in terms of getting results. If everyone is deluded they\'re deluded in a systematic way which tends to stand against the hypothesis that AE/m simply doesn\'t work.


Sooo - none of these are particularly satisfying explanations. With some degree of frustration, I decided to throw caution to the winds and go for overdose reactions, reactions so obvious that I couldn\'t miss them. Good or bad, I didn\'t care, I just wanted to see SOME kind of result. Opportunity came in the form of a festival which amounted to a week of partying, and I started with five drops AE/M (PCC I left at home) and just kept applying more until SOMETHING happened, steadily upping the dose at short intervals. Ten drops, fifteen drops, twenty drops, thirty drops - my concern ceased to be pheremone overdose and became the simple offensiveness of too much cover scent, but nevertheless I persisted. After a couple of days I was applying entire droppers full, just squirting the stuff on, and the problem began finding more places to put it. Four weeks of steady experimentation had used about a quarter of my vial of AE/M. Now I went through half a bottle in about four days.

And finally! Finally I started to get hits, with about 3-4 full droppers applied. Not DIHLs, not wild over-reactions, not group sex with the women\'s olympic swim team, but good solid hits. A woman I didn\'t really know gave me a long, sensuous backrub. Another woman came up and sat in my lap and cuddled. A third, truly gorgeous woman made her attraction quite clear and, when she finally had to go gave me a very nice kiss on the lips. Men were also quite respectful and deferential in general - one guy out of the blue gave me some cash. Someone else eagerly invited me to join their materials research team at 3M for no good reason at all (I specialize in semiconductors, which was the basis of the offer but is only vaguely related). In general there was a marked and substantial change in people\'s responses between this extreme dose period from both from my no-pheremone control period and my first experimental period using normal-to-high doses.

So my current hypothesis is simple. For some reason my bottle of AE/m is way understrength in terms of active ingredients. This isn\'t a particularly satisfying explanation either, but it DOES fit my observations compared with the experiences of other people recorded here, which would imply that 3-4 droppersfull would be a catastrophic overdose. If this were something that happened from time to time it would also explain the other poor frustrated \"pheremones don\'t work for me\" souls out there.

So there are a large number of possible reasons this might be true, including treatment during shipping, the length of time between my bottle being manufactured and my actually getting it and using it and some kind of contamination (for example skin bacteria that metabolize pheremones)getting in and ruining the pheremones. In general I kept my bottle at room temperature and in the dark and was careful to avoid contaminating the solution by leaving it uncapped or touching either the dropper or the mouth of the bottle, but I can\'t eliminate the possibility of mishandling.

Of course, this remains a hypothesis. The only way to prove it would be to analyze my bottle and demonstrate conclusively that it was in fact low on active ingredients - then it would be possible to work on figuring out why this is true. I still have a quarter bottle left that I\'d be happy to donate to either Stone Labs or Love-Scent if that would be helpful. It would also be useful if other people in the \"pheremones don\'t work for me\" category tried putting on extreme doses and seeing if they got any results this way.

Cheers all. Hope this helps and any comments or insights from more experienced users would be most welcome.

Chris

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

That is strange indeed, that you have to use so many AE/m to get some results. I ussually get these type of hits when wearing just 2 to 3 drups of AE/m. If i would be wearing so may AE/m on me , people will probebly start beating me up or something. For me that would probebly be a real big OD.


DZorro,

[EXIT63]

Good post. Welcome to the forum. Since you\'re the scientific type I\'d recommend further research. Try a stronger product...like PI. Try the chemset. Let us know what happens.

[nonscents]

Stellaris,

Extraordinary post!

Please clarify one thing for me. When you were using these incredible megadoses, were you still applying on clothes only to eliminate body chemistry? Or were you now applying on skin and/or hair again?

OK, please clarify two things. First was my objective question. Here\'s my subjective question. Forget about mones for a minute. Just the plain, non-pheromonal, olfactory scent of AE/m is powerful. Were you aware of yourself totally reeking of strong smell?

The range of concentrations utilized by successful users is mind-boggling. Some dilute the stuff and use one or two drops every other day otherwise there are no effects. Others lack sufficient surface area to apply the stuff undiluted.

[tallmacky]

This may be partially the cause (\"http://www.server2.love-scent.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&amp;Board=UBB5&amp;Number=74600&amp;Forum=UB B5&amp;Words=pheromone%20theory%20of%20indifference&amp;Ma tch=Entire%20Phrase&amp;Searchpage=0&amp;Limit=25&amp;Old=allp osts&amp;Main=74600&amp;Search=true#Post74600\") , though a distorted one probably needs more thought.

[Elana]

Jason, that doesn\'t make any sense in this case because he didn\'t dump the bottle on him from the get go. He started off with very little and gradually started adding more.

[Holmes]

But even 3 drops of AE is a lot (possible OD for some?), isn\'t it?


Holmes

[tallmacky]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">En respuesta a:</font><hr />
And finally! Finally I started to get hits, with about 3-4 full droppers applied. Not DIHLs, not wild over-reactions, not group sex with the women\'s olympic swim team, but good solid hits. A woman I didn\'t really know gave me a long, sensuous backrub. Another woman came up and sat in my lap and cuddled. A third, truly gorgeous woman made her attraction quite clear and, when she finally had to go gave me a very nice kiss on the lips. Men were also quite respectful and deferential in general - one guy out of the blue gave me some cash.

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

Given the pretty long length of his situation along with as I am seeing only having noticible \"results\" on one day I think it makes more sense to just through it up in the air and conclude that it was simply just coincidence. The fact is it doesn\'t make sense either there is a highly complex answer or human error/perception was involved and it was simply just a mistake, when you are concicously aware you are wearing pheromones every hit/sign you get you automatically relate it back to the phero\'s, if nothing happens one automatically blames the pheromones. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

------------------------------------------

If the study is accurate I think it does relate to the pheromone theory of indifference, of course it does the basics of it are the amount/concentration vs. the reception of yourself and others.....Now you are right it doesn\'t follow the standards or all of the rules..which is a problem./ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif I would connect the 10-30 drops max in one day to the indifference theory, it may be very probable that his study was not truly based singularly on AE/M, after all if you read what he initially started out with he was using 3 drops of AE/M, but also 6 inches of PCC (which could indefinitely effect the results).

My guess is.

1. He started with AE and PCC - saw no significant results
2. Overdosed with mainly AE and got nothing - indifference theory
3. used standard amounts of AE/M by itself alone and saw that it worked.

I am not sure if PCC would effect the situation that much (little is needed to be picked up by the VNO) I would need to hear back from Stellaris

[Stellaris]

Hmmm - a few clarifications here. I noticed none of the
overdose symptoms listed, although I was aware of the
possibility of both OD and pheremone buildup. In fact, in
the last, extreme phase I was counting on both of these to
generate some reaction, any reaction. The most scientifically
valid technique I used in this phase was to get a baseline from someone (eg, a woman who
was interested in me pre-pheremones, or my pre-agreed guinea pig
friend), then apply a small dose, watch for a reaction,
and repeat, upping the dose steadily over a period of an
hour or two throughout an interaction. The increases started
as single drops, but as I got no reactions at dose levels
arounded 10 drops I started using to multiple drops as my
increment, and ultimately I moved droppers full. It was
only when I was using 3-4 droppers full that I got definite
hits, but this was actually over a period of about 3 days,
and reasonably consistent. For the initial phase (roughly 3
weeks) I was using AE and PCC together. For the extreme phase
I used AE only. The application throughout most of this period
was about 2/3 to 3/4 on skin the rest on clothes, although
this varied depending on the day.

And yes, I did notice AE\'s cover scent quite strongly. I
normally don\'t wear any scents, and in fact find it noticeable
at a 3-4 drop level. However at the extreme phase I was
willing to risk OD on this as well as the pheremones. In the
event, I had NO obvious negative reactions from anyone for
the duration of the experiment, either from pheremonal effects
or just from the strong cover scent. Maybe people were just
too polite to mention but again, the hits I did get were
with 3-4 droppers full applied.

I should also add, the hits I did get were from people who I
believe would normally have been interested in me. I suspect
(although this is of course unprovable) that the pheremones
simply made them more forward.

Cheers!

Chris

Cheers!

Chris

[franki]

For me it is pretty clear that the use of PCC in your initial testing phase has backfired on you. Personally, I don\'t think (anymore) that you can get consistently good results when wearing copulins. I would really leave out the cops, for I think they might be of no help or even counteracting the good influences of AE..

Franki /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Holmes]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
I would really leave out the cops, for I think they might be of no help or even counteracting the good influences of AE..

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

Franki,

You mean that the cops might overpower the effects of the -nol/-rone in the AE or...what? (I\'m asking because I now have PCC and was going to start using it when wearing AE...)


Holmes

[franki]

Yeah, sort of.

[CJ01]

Homes, I don´t think a little bit of PCC will do any harm, it´s not that strong.
AE and PCC/cops is still one of the best mixes I´ve tried, cops do have a good effect on women, mind you I´m female, but a lot of male users have reported positive results. So I dunno. I´m pleased someone´s gone for my mix first though /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

CJ

[Holmes]

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif Thanks CJ. Yeah, I was gonna use 2-3 drops of AE (usual places) and then maybe 1\" (or less) of PCC on each wrist...just to start.


Holmes

[franki]

Yeah, I was gonna say a little bit of PCC won\'t hurt you, cause it is not so concentrated. If it is gonna help you is a different story... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[tallmacky]

Another part of the \"theory\" of indifference is the possibility that what you are wearing doesn\'t have to be very strong to effect your perception from others. We have seen this with those who have received pheromone like responses a day after their application etc... I think 6 inches of PCC whether \"powerful\" or not would obviously be picked up along with the AE/M, as we know anything can happen. CJ01 all the ingredients in AE/M/AE/W have been showed to work with a female among of course PCC. I guess we could find out more if Stellaris was to wear PCC and AE/M again as he did last time, and then of couse AE/M alone.

[nonscents]

Stellaris,

Thanks for your lucid post, and for answering my questions.

I get a headache merely from the thought of coating myself with droppersful of AE/m.

Absolutely brilliant!

[CJ01]

PCC is great for covering the smell AE btw /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Sagacious1420]

I\'ve been using PCC for a few months now. Thus far, based on my observations, I have come to the conclusion that copulins can be used effectively by men. However, I consider it as sort of a stealth weapon and I only use it if my intent is a pick up or if I know that I will be around a specific target. I use very small amounts in specific places. I dab w/ the roller top on...a dab behind each ear and a dab on the tip of the nose for me (for the T boost) right before I head out the door if I\'m going out or just before my lover arrives. I also apply a small (~1\") swipe in the pubic hair.

Here\'s my thinking behind this strategy:
Too much copulin could give other guys around you that same Test boost and can result in more aggressive behavior from them. I get the impression that too much copulin confuses women...they can\'t quite make you out...something just doens\'t make sense about you.
My reasons for using smaller amounts are that when you are in close contact w/ your target, they then will detect a hint of copulin w/ the intention of subtlely increasing sexual arousal. So as you\'re conversing, every time you lean in to speak, or vice versa, (a necessity in a noisy club) your target gets several brief exposures to them. Thereby, gradually incresing the effect. The pubic application will come into play later, in a more intimate setting. I have noticed rather consistant comments from women when I have applied to the pubic area. It\'s very common to hear comments during fellatio, like \"it smells like sex in here\" or \"you smell so yummy, I could just eat you up\"...and they do! I have a lover who seems to get much wetter, faster when I\'m using the cops in my mix...it\'s kinda like it boosts the effect of the other pheros somehow.

I\'ll end this post by stating that I consider these preliminary conclusions. I still don\'t believe that I have the whole copulin thing figured out, but there does seem to some usefulness for men.

[Holmes]

Thanks Sag. Interesting point that you reserve PCC applications for specific occasions, rather than using it for a \"blanket assault,\" if you will. I was going to use it as I would any other phero, but perhaps I should think twice about that...

Good post. However,

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
I get the impression that too much copulin confuses women...they can\'t quite make you out...something just doens\'t make sense about you.

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

What do you mean by this? Can you extritherate further? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

(CJ- Yeah, I like the PCC scent as well...)


Holmes

[tallmacky]

Cool post Sag, did you notice a decrease in the effectivness of AE/M when you wore PCC. Not in a relationship setting but just out in public and such? I doubt you wore that much PCC eh?

[Sagacious1420]

TM-

It seems that it can go both ways. If I use the right amount it seems to highten the effectiveness of other products, especially NPA. I 1st used just AE/m and SOE w/ PCC (I didn\'t have any NPA at the time) and noticed a more sexual \"feel\" to my hits. Once I added NPA to the mix, things got really interesting.

I tend to notice more aggressive reactions from guys, if I use too much PCC. It\'s not necessarily direct at me, but perhaps a better way to phrase it is that guys seem more aggitated in the general sense.

Holmes-

Not sure exactly how to describe it...I can get some strange looks from women if I wear more. It\'s not like the looks I get from a None OD, though. It\'s like a look of confusion. I remember one time that I went out to a club w/ about 6\" on and I got some good EC from this girl, we started talking w/ some good kino. IIRC, about 20-30 minutes into the convo, she started talking to me in a way that was more like she was hanging out w/ one of her girlfriends. It was really strange and unexpected. I later reflected on the encounter, wondering if I had started doing something differently in the way I was interacting w/ her. But I really can\'t say that I was doing anything differently. I even recall crackin\' on her for trying to turn me into one of her girlfrineds. It\'s weird...the whole \"feel\" of the encounter changed. Sorry that I can\'t elucidate more on this for you...really wish I could, for my own satisfaction, if nothing else.

[metroman]

Welcome to the boards Stellaris! Excellent post 2 thumbs up...very intelligently written post...

Just a few comments: You indicated that basically women have to be dancing on top of your head before you notice
they\'re giving you come hither cues, therefore you maybe overlooking alot of the more subtle gestures: A glance, a look held a little longer than usual, a smile, giggling etc...

Then you reported you finally felt like you were getting hits:

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;And finally! Finally I started to get hits, with about 3-4 full droppers applied. Not DIHLs, not wild over-reactions, not group sex with the women\'s olympic swim team, but good solid hits. A woman I didn\'t really know gave me a long, sensuous backrub. Another woman came up and sat in my lap and cuddled. A third, truly gorgeous woman made her attraction quite clear and, when she finally had to go gave me a very nice kiss on the lips. Men were also quite respectful and deferential in general - one guy out of the blue gave me some cash. Someone else eagerly invited me to join their materials research team at 3M for no good reason at all (I specialize in semiconductors, which was the basis of the offer but is only vaguely related). In general there was a marked and substantial change in people\'s responses between this extreme dose period from both from my no-pheremone control period and my first experimental period using normal-to-high doses.&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;

Okay I\'m a guy that defintely would be in OD range with anything much over 2 drops AE/M...but I have to say that your hits way surpassed the standard typical hits that are talked about on here &amp; that I\'ve experienced: A woman that you didn\'t know gave you a long sensuous backrub! A woman sat on your lap &amp; cuddled!! A gorgeous woman gave you a nice kiss on the lips before leaving!!! Money &amp; job offers from the men...

Bro I gotta tell ya for me these aren\'t just your typical run of the mill hits they\'re major home runs...

Now I\'m thinking I should up my dosage alot...

I was thinking maybe there is a range of normal dosage which then proceeds to a OD level and then there is a maybe a super OD level where you \"break on through to the other side\" so to speak &amp; the negative effects of a normal OD are counteracted &amp; you get these great fantastic hits you speak of...

I remember another poster on here by the name of Phantom &amp; he reported similar findings when he\'d splash the stuff on just to see what would happen expecting a nasty OD he actually got much positive reaction.

[Holmes]

Sag,

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Sorry that I can\'t elucidate more on this for you...really wish I could, for my own satisfaction, if nothing else.

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

No, man, it makes sense to me now. So, the stuff could wind up pulling you into the friend--or rather \"girlfriend\"--zone then? Hmmmm. I never figured that. Anyway, I shall indeed be selective as to usage and will proceed with caution. Thanks.


Holmes

[Sagacious1420]

Holmes-

Yea, it kinds seems that way...for lack of a better way to put it. I have to admit that I haven\'t tested such high PCC doses in awhile, because the girl I mentioned above was pretty cool and it would have been nice to see where things could have gone. I think I\'ve finally discovered my correct dose, so I\'m not really sure that I\'m interested in further testing, now that I think about.

[Brian]

Stellaris,

Great Post! Well thought out and written. You may consider P10, it has all the phero\'s that AE has, but the dosage is jacked up considerably. In the long run, it\'s cheaper, you won\'t use a half a bottle in 4 days. A drop, or 2, consentrated, should give you some real noticeable reactions. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Brian

[a.k.a.]

Stellaris,
Wow! What a great experiment! But I’m glad it was you that ran it instead of me.

I also had difficulties noticing “hits” when I first started using AE, and I also tried increasingly larger dosages. Trouble was, after seven drops my head hurt, my legs felt heavy, I had trouble concentrating, and I felt like I needed a nap.
Metroman may be onto something, but here’s my conclusions on AE, for whatever they’re worth: (Keep in mind that this stuff works differently with different body chemistries.)

My nickname for AE is “Mr. Right” because it seems to exude a perfect balance of virility, masculinity, and reliability. It’s the kind of mix that I can walk through a busy supermarket and not get a single head turning. But if I “accidentally” bump into a cute girl she’ll be all smiles, charm, politeness and readiness to strike up a conversation over guavas or facial tissue.

On the other hand if I add just two small dabs of APC (a very mild androstenone product), I get women following me through the mall, young ladies staring at me over their boyfriends’ shoulder, casual acquaintances giving me long passionate hugs &amp; etc..
If you read through this forum, you’ll notice a lot of young guys singing the praises of AE. So that, combined with my own experiences, makes me think that — as a stand alone product — it might be a bit weak on the androstenone where older guys are concerned. (Unless of course you can work with a \"Mr. Right\" image.)

The only time I ever got laid wearing AE was when I wore it around my last girlfriend. Interestingly enough, she dumped me shortly after I quit my last job. So I’m thinking that maybe I broke character. “Mr. Right” wouldn’t quit his job, in the middle of a recession, on the basis of some crazy whim. (Fortunately, I now have a better job and a more easy going girlfriend, but that’s not the point.)

Regarding the OD’s...
I never go over two drops. My former gf got pretty worked up with one drop. I got some interesting results with 4-5 drops but only with women that were physically repulsive to me. But, like Metroman said, maybe there’s a beyond overdose reaction that I’ve never conceived of before.
Hopefully some other guys will experiment along these lines. I seem to be pretty sensitive to either the pheromones or the cover scent.

PS I’ve never experimented with couplins because I figure real men don’t smell like cootchie. But maybe I’m missing out on something. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

[Sagacious1420]

a.k.a.-
Don\'t \"real men\" get laid? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif Well, it would seem to me that if your getting laid, then you\'re going to be sporting some natural copulins...unless you wash them off right afterward. Ever gone out clubbing right after getting laid, w/out showering first? Try it some time. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

I suppose that if you are having some good sweaty sex and you tend to have a bad BO problem, then it\'s not such a good idea. Never has been a problem for me, but, then again women tend to tell me that my pits smell musky and sweet after sex. How would I know this? Because as they\'re laying next to me, they tend to rest their head on my chest and they sniff at me. After noticing this, I began to ask if I had BO or smelled bad. Most of the time I would get the \"musky and sweet\" comment or a simple \"no you smell fine\". Of course, I\'m sure that if I did have bad BO, they wouldn\'t put their nose anywhere near my armpits, huh. A bit of deoderant, just to be on the safe side, seems to work just fine for me before I head out.

[a.k.a.]

Hah! This reminds me of the time I went down on my girlfriend before we went into a jazz club.
We met some friends there and one guy kept putting his arm around me. I remember wondering whether this was normal male-bonding behavior or did he subconsciously want to kiss me.
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif

The ladies were pretty friendly too, but I attributed this to my synthetic pheromones.)

[Sagacious1420]

a.k.a.-

Could it be that you\'re just too damn sexy for your own good? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

That reaction from your buddy could be another good reason to limit the amount of cops your using (natural or synthetic). /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif Maybe he just wanted to hang out w/ the dude that was getting laid. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif Studly by association, perhaps? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Actually, I have a buddy who gets like that if I have on too much PCC, but then again, he\'s one of those guys that goes around hugging everybody anyway. I guess he\'s just one of those touchy, feely kinda ppl and maybe he is even moreso when effected by the cops. Don\'t really know. The thing is, that he isn\'t like that any more that normal if I use an appropriate amount. It\'s like the amount is sufficient for close contact, but doesn\'t seem to have much of any general effect. And that\'s what I was shooting for. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[oscar]

Stellaris,

Good post, and a lot of good suggestions on the subsequent replies.

I think that you might be able to conclude that for whatever reason, you may have gotten a bum bottle of AE.
If I were you I\'d contact Bruce regarding exchanging what\'s left of your original bottle for a replacement.

If things were to progress the same way with a fresh bottle, I wouldn\'t know what to advise. Most of us see pretty good results using about half a buck\'s worth of phero products. It sounds to me that you weren\'t seeing anything unless you applied 4 or 5 bucks worth.

Would I use pheros if my effective dose was $5 per application?
Damn right I would!
I just wouldn\'t be using them every day is all! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Oscar /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[nonscents]

Yesterday I was going to be out and about with my 7-year-old son in tow. I was wearing shorts. So, Stellaris-like I put a dropperful AE/m on the left leg. I then got a bad case of users remorse and chickened out. On the right leg I only put 1/2 a dropperful.

I put the stuff on at 11:45am.

I then took a long subway ride with my son. We went to a museum of sorts (not art). We then took another subway, hung out in a park, waited in a very crowded area, and took some more mass transportation.

No sign of any effect.

Then around 5pm we took the very very crowded subway home. First I sat next to a female. Can\'t be sure if she was a young woman or an older girl. Maybe hispanic; maybe asian. I wasn\'t thinking about her. Then I said to myself, I should check her out and see if there are any hair flips or anything. I glance out of the corner of my eye and I see that her hand is inside the neckhole of her blouse.

This is interesting. Is she fondling her breast? Well, I guess that could hang on whether fondling involves vigorous rubbing. There didn\'t seem to be any. But there could have been touching. I then looked and it appeared that she was sitting next to her mother.

Conclusion: uncertain. Maybe a hit. Maybe not. But 1.5 droppers of AE/m didn\'t seem to cause any OD problems. And my big concern was that I would reek badly. That\'s one reason why I put it on my legs. I didn\'t want it near my head.

So, the breast-toucher leaves and I take out my PDA and start to write up my results. I then see an attractive young woman walk in the crowded car. There is now an empty seat next to me so I shift my weight to make a little more space available. She takes the bait and sits next to me.

I continue to write up my report in my PDA. Then I think: she might be able to read my PDA and see words like \"sticking hand in blouse touching breast.\" If I sat next to a guy like that I\'d get up and move to the other end of the car. So, first I start angling my PDA so that I can see it but she can\'t. Then I put it away.

I then start talking to my son for the rest of the ride.
She takes out a woman\'s magazine and reads it for the rest of the ride.

Now the seats on the subway are really close together. You\'re really scrunched up against the person next to you. So I am not sure of what to make of the ride. She sure seemed to be elbowing me in the ribs a whole lot. I kinda enjoyed it. So I certainly didn\'t move away, but I didn\'t move in any closer either. We never exchanged any words.

Conclusion: uncertain. Maybe a hit. Maybe not.

For other reasons, I am taking a break from \'mones for a month. But when I continue I am going to have to start using Stellaris-type volumes. Three droppersful here I come!

P.S. I am not endorsing megadoses nor can I vouch for their safety. Clearly, for many the minimalist manifesto should be their guiding light. But not for all. And so far, there seems to be no way to determine which class you belong to, other than splashing a few droppersful on and seeing what happens.

[franki]

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I then see an attractive young woman walk in the crowded car. There is now an empty seat next to me so I shift my weight to make a little more space available. She takes the bait and sits next to me.

I continue to write up my report in my PDA. Then I think: she might be able to read my PDA and see words like \"sticking hand in blouse touching breast.\" If I sat next to a guy like that I\'d get up and move to the other end of the car. So, first I start angling my PDA so that I can see it but she can\'t. Then I put it away.

I then start talking to my son for the rest of the ride.
She takes out a woman\'s magazine and reads it for the rest of the ride.

Now the seats on the subway are really close together. You\'re really scrunched up against the person next to you. So I am not sure of what to make of the ride. She sure seemed to be elbowing me in the ribs a whole lot. I kinda enjoyed it. So I certainly didn\'t move away, but I didn\'t move in any closer either. We never exchanged any words.

Conclusion: uncertain. Maybe a hit. Maybe not.

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

No more interaction between you two than her elbowing in a very busy car??

I would not want to call that a hit by any stretch of the imagination..

[franki]

If she would have smiled at you for a few seconds I would probably have considered otherwise.... This is the big city and not the \"deep South\" or the \"wild West\".

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif