PHEROMONE BAN IN USA* BEGINS 2004

[Jones]

I hope you are all aware of HR207. It is a bill that bans all DHEA and all ANDRO products. Guess what, once they do that, someone will say, \"Hey, pheromones are derivatives of TEST and DHEA just like all pro-hormone (aka andro) products\".

The probability of the bill going through is considered near certain in washington. The only thing that will stop it is your support. Dont risk loosing pmones.

Go to Bodybuilding.com, scroll about 1 page length down. Click where it say \'stop andro from being banned\'.

They instruct you how to contact all your congressman at once. it all takes 22 seconds.

[ToBeOrNotToBe]

This can\'t be allowed! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif I say that we (portugal) should go to war against the USA!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Franki, unite the clans!! Unite them!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif

[druid]

done

[CptKipling]

Do it and do it now!

We have been trying to get people to do this for ages, do it again or start doing it!

Someone post the link directly for our US friends.

[Sagacious1420]

WTF! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif

Yes, if you have a link, please post it. I checked the website but didn\'t see the link to which you referred...must have missed it or something. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

2B-
Them\'s fightin\' words son! [putting up my dukes old school style] /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
I guess Portugal will just have to get in line. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

[franki]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
This can\'t be allowed! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif I say that we (portugal) should go to war against the USA!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Franki, unite the clans!! Unite them!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

Ok, if you prepare the arrows and the axes and get the horses ready for the fight. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

[Jones]

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/legalmuscle5.htm (\"http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/legalmuscle5.htm\")


Thats the direct link people. We can make a difference. Althought the bill doesnt state it outlaws pheromones, it will make androgen molecules controlled substances, meaning because you have AE or a bottle of DHEA, you are breaking the law and could go to jail.

BTW, this is no coincidence that this bill apeared just as Androgel starts to get popular. Androgel runs approx 100-200$ per month, but rest assured, give any freshman chem major 30$ and he or she will whip you up a 2 month batch. Just buy 4AD powder, oxidize its allyic hyrdoxy group with MnO2 then disolve in ethanol w/ isopropyl myristate and its transdermal.


Ahhhhh, the 150 billion dollar drug company. The run the goverment. They spend 17 cents of evey dollar they spend on marketing. How much of very dollar do the spend on R&amp;D?

11 cents

[Jones]

Ok, the link above has mostly information about the bill, this one gives specific and easy to follow instuctions:


http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/saveandro.htm (\"http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/saveandro.htm\")

[Jones]

When i posted this i wasnt completely positive if the bill would ban pmones--but then i did some research. I thought since you were not ingesting them, or that maybe the pathways from test were too complex. Well i just realized something. because phmones occur naturally in sweat, there must be a biological mechanism for its derivation from an androgen.


THIS BILL DEFINITLY WILL SEND YOU TO JAIL FOR THAT VILE OF SoE. We can make a difference.


\"The bill is written in such a way that it covers not only all steroid hormone precursors and metabolites, but also all precursors of precursors, and metabolites of precursors and so on and so forth. The bill gives no consideration to whether or not any of these compounds possess any relevant pharmacological activity - let alone whether or not any of these compounds are related to any health risk or potential for abuse. \" bodybuilding.com

[nonscents]

Would the Portuguese please launch Operation American Freedom immediately and allow the fresh breeze of liberty to waft once again over my fettered land? Or maybe they could call it Operation Make \'Em Mone.

After the Portuguese have secured the major pockets of pheromone resistance they will need to set up a transitional authority before truly free and fair elections could be held on the basis of a new Constitution which includes the freedom of pheromone choice as one of its basic rights. The transitional authority will need to be run by US citizens who have the appearance of independence from the Portuguese occupiers, in order to give the transitional authority the patina of legitimacy.

I believe that this love scent forum has an opportunity to play a major historical role in future international relations. This board can provide the nucleus for a new political party that, if we play our cards right, can have the keys to power handed to it by the occupying Portuguese military.

I nominate Bruce as our beloved leader and hereby swear fealty to him.

[Watcher]

Bruce youre comment, id like to hear if you are aware of this ?
Does it cover pheromones - all non androgen pheromone products would be free ie WAGG and well EW and PCC only. Or we could buy outisde the US for instance most products are US based however. Stock up now and also lobby at bodybuilder.com.

[Jones]

Ok, just to clear things up. If you have Rone, Nol, None -&gt; youll be commiting a felony (or if you sell it)

If you only have Couplins, youll be fine. These are various aliphatic acids found in vaginal fluid. These will be sold until someone actually specifically bans synthetic pheromones.



If you are still mystefied:

www.chemfinder.com (\"http://www.chemfinder.com\")

type in: testosterone
type in: androsterone

Look at the pirdy pictures. I think a light bulb will flicker on

[Sagacious1420]

Thanks for the link Jones!

I just did my part! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Anyone else? Anyone, anyone...Beuhler, Beuhler?

@ nonscents-
\"Operation Make \'Em Mone\"

Love it! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

[Jones]

tell your friends to go there. tell your friends to tell their friends


...and so on

[Sagacious1420]

Gee, those are purdy pictures. So they differ by only 2 hydrogen molecules, huh. That should make it easy for our elected simpletons to lump the 2 together w/out any extensive effort...which, unfortunately, sure suits them well. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif

[Jones]

yes 2 hydrogens (the C3 hydroxy), and that double bond dont forget (so its a total of 4 H\'s). In case you were wondering what none and nol are:

none = Take rone\'s stucture, make the bottom hydroxy a ketone, and put a double bond in place of that ketone at the top.

nol = just take none, make the bottom ketone a hydroxy

I know that might be tough to visualize. but you get the point.

[Charisma]

Why don\'t you all come over and live in The Netherlands? Nearly EVERYTHING is allowed here /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
What\'s not a good case either IMHO... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

[Icarus]

So how does that effect production/selling inc. this site?

Cheers

[Jones]

they wouldnt be able to - unless they relocate outside the usa

[krtel]

Well, I did my part. I contacted all of my representatives with the letter located at http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/saveandro.htm. (\"http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/saveandro.htm.\")

I think that was the most convinient way to do it because the link on the page takes you to a form where you can just copy and paste it in and press send.

- Krish

[Sagacious1420]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
so its a total of 4 H\'s
none = ketone at the top.

nol = just take none, make the bottom ketone a hydrox

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
Hydroxy- those are good cookies...no, really... they\'re like Orios, but a lot cheaper. May be a Mid-West thing...spent some time there...doing hard time. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif
But, seriously, actually that\'s not hard to imagine. It\'s a total of 4 H\'s., as in the 4-H Club (a US thing). That reminds me of the equation X x 4H\'s = the # of Ag geeks gathered in a barn partying to folk music and talking about animal husbandry as a come on. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

\"Ya know, the degree of hoyvinmavin to oivinhavin tonite is off the vishketin scale of sebix havin\'..nneeeeeeeooooooiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiieeennnnn n!\" /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif

Or, perhaps, you would prefer the Dead Kennedy\'s version of Ketone poisoning...turning ppl into bonsai trees!

BTW, I\'m familiar w/ spatial abstraction...we were neighbors...years ago...and I used to love to hang out and discuss sub-atomic theory w/ freinds who were physics professors...so every convo required some degree of abstraction. And chemistry helped. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Thanx 4 the post Jones.

[EXIT63]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Why don\'t you all come over and live in The Netherlands? Nearly EVERYTHING is allowed here /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
What\'s not a good case either IMHO... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

And where do you buy your precious pheros?

Perhaps we could form some pheromone sleeper cells to plan terror attacks using EW bombs against the capital.

[Icarus]

So what\'s everyone gonna do?

[Hungry]

Settle down guys. It looks to me like Jones is over-reacting.

First of all, you\'re probably not going to get the bill stopped. Your best chance is to make sure pheromones are not included. From what I read, there\'s no reason they would be. But if you\'re worried, forget your representatives. There aren\'t enough of you to make them give a [bad word]. You\'re better off contacting people like Stone Labs and seeing what they have to say about it. They probably know the specifics.

I think your best chance is through manufacturers, retailers and researchers of pheromones. They would have a lot more clout than you lot would.

For some perspective, here in Australia all anabolic and androgenic substances and their precursors are banned, but pheromones are both manufactured and sold here perfectly legally. If you\'re interested, here\'s a list of what\'s banned here:

http://www.tga.health.gov.au/docs/html/bringmed/apendixa.htm (\"http://www.tga.health.gov.au/docs/html/bringmed/apendixa.htm\")


Hungry

[ToBeOrNotToBe]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Settle down guys. It looks to me like Jones is over-reacting.

First of all, you\'re probably not going to get the bill stopped. Your best chance is to make sure pheromones are not included. From what I read, there\'s no reason they would be. But if you\'re worried, forget your representatives. There aren\'t enough of you to make them give a [bad word]. You\'re better off contacting people like Stone Labs and seeing what they have to say about it. They probably know the specifics.

I think your best chance is through manufacturers, retailers and researchers of pheromones. They would have a lot more clout than you lot would.

For some perspective, here in Australia all anabolic and androgenic substances and their precursors are banned, but pheromones are both manufactured and sold here perfectly legally. If you\'re interested, here\'s a list of what\'s banned here:

http://www.tga.health.gov.au/docs/html/bringmed/apendixa.htm (\"http://www.tga.health.gov.au/docs/html/bringmed/apendixa.htm\")


Hungry

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

Franki, lower your axe! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif
The war is over! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
Victory! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

[Hungry]

On second thoughts, panic some more. It\'s kind of funny to watch. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif


Hungry

[CptKipling]

But what about peoples right to health?

Certain androgenic compounds can be a very usefull part of someones suppliments.

[belgareth]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
But what about peoples right to health?

Certain androgenic compounds can be a very usefull part of someones suppliments.

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

Do you really believe any government is all that concerned with your well being? Every one I\'ve ever studied regarded you as a statistic. Statistics don\'t line their pockets. Your health has little meaning to them in any real sense.

[Jones]

If you think im over reacting, go to bodybuilding.com, read
HR207 for yourself. Stone labs wouldnt know anything, unless they have read HR207. and I doest matter if pheromones arent banned in your country, its our congress which will make us a law, and from my understanding of english and chemistry, it makes androstane derivatives controlled substances. If youve read the bill, its hard to come to ANY other conclusion.

[belgareth]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
If you think im over reacting, go to bodybuilding.com, read
HR207 for yourself. Stone labs wouldnt know anything, unless they have read HR207. and I doest matter if pheromones arent banned in your country, its our congress which will make us a law, and from my understanding of english and chemistry, it makes androstane derivatives controlled substances. If youve read the bill, its hard to come to ANY other conclusion.

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

It doesn\'t matter if you are over-reacting or not. The point still is that they are making a bad law that will adversely affect our health. If we don\'t want still another freedom taken away, we need to put up a fight.

[Hungry]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Poster: Jones
Subject: Re: PHEROMONE BAN IN USA* BEGINS 2004

If you think im over reacting, go to bodybuilding.com, read
HR207 for yourself. Stone labs wouldnt know anything, unless they have read HR207. and I doest matter if pheromones arent banned in your country, its our congress which will make us a law, and from my understanding of english and chemistry, it makes androstane derivatives controlled substances. If youve read the bill, its hard to come to ANY other conclusion.

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

I read the bill. At the very worst, pheromones will simply slip under the radar. The fact is, nobody gives a damn about pheomones.

Companies like Stone Labs would know about it if it affected their business. Their lawyers would make sure of it. That\'s what they\'re there for.

&lt;shrug&gt; Anyway, suit yourself. I couldn\'t give a sh*t, personally.

I just think you all look a little silly.


Hungry

(PS: I do think it sucks that these substances will be banned, from a health point of view. But that\'s another issue. I don\'t think it\'ll affect pheromones at all.)

[belgareth]

Hungry:

Out of curiosity, what are you going to do IF You are wrong? Won\'t it be a little late to take action once the laws are already in place? Isn\'t it worth the effort to prevent stupid laws whenever possible? Or do you feel we, as adults, need the government to regulate every aspect of our lives?

[CptKipling]

What\'s the point in people not doing it though? Stupid laws require a responce, otherwise it will snowball.

[Hungry]

I never said not to do it, I just said to settle down and stop panicking about it.

If worse comes to worse, I\'ll buy my pheromones from somewhere else. Or not at all. Who cares? It\'s not like my life depends on them.


Hungry

[belgareth]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
I never said not to do it, I just said to settle down and stop panicking about it.

If worse comes to worse, I\'ll buy my pheromones from somewhere else. Or not at all. Who cares? It\'s not like my life depends on them.


Hungry

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

That\'s not the point. The point is Do we need this law? Is it a good law? If not, it should not be passed.

[Hungry]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
That\'s not the point. The point is Do we need this law? Is it a good law? If not, it should not be passed.

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

Of course, you\'re right.

So why start or stop here? The are countless stupid laws everywhere. If it bothers you then fight it. Or not. That\'s up to you.

Personally I just ignore my government. Like I said earlier pro-hormones are banned here, but I got some recently to test for myself Whitehall\'s penis-growing claims. My government can make any stupid law it wants, I don\'t care.


Hungry

[akinu]

This will be another wrong policy adopted by the current administration along with many others. I dont know if resisting will make a difference, because current US political system is working on an elitist base, neglecting what the majority says. Hence the Iraq war. Thats something else but pheros are going to the same way I see. Instead of directly opposing the government, lobby among the interest groups. After all they are affecting the policy making. Best advice I can give as a political scientist and international relations expert, is this. Be sure that most of the erratic policies will subside when this administration is over (thus pheros will be free I believe), cus it seems they are not listening you.

Hungry, you would have the luxury of not caring about what your government does if you were a Norwegian (no offense, Norwegians ARE happy no matter whatever the government policy is), but as a citizen of a superpower who has the authority unsurpassed; even more than the Roman Empire some 2000 years ago, and has direct influence in virtually anywhere in the world, you should care about what your government does. Because it doesnt just affects you, it affects whole world. Thus every US citizens must be extremely conscious about the US government, knowing that his/her vote will affect the fate of millions of people around the world. And I guess you should be even more conscious when your government takes a decision against your interest. Why are they banning pheros anyway? Are they getting all the girls and want to eliminate some unfair advantage? Hilarious /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

[franki]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />


Hungry, but as a citizen of a superpower who has the authority unsurpassed; you should care about what your government does.

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

Since when is Australia a super power? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[akinu]

I am sure the message is taken and understood franki.

[belgareth]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
That\'s not the point. The point is Do we need this law? Is it a good law? If not, it should not be passed.

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

Of course, you\'re right.

So why start or stop here? The are countless stupid laws everywhere. If it bothers you then fight it. Or not. That\'s up to you.

Personally I just ignore my government. Like I said earlier pro-hormones are banned here, but I got some recently to test for myself Whitehall\'s penis-growing claims. My government can make any stupid law it wants, I don\'t care.


Hungry

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

But I do fight them, as often as I can. I also stand up on the roof and shout at people to take responsibility for their lives instead of allowing any government to tell them what to do. If you think you can completely ignore your government, your wrong. The only reason you haven\'t been handled appropriately is that you haven\'t successfully irritated somebody in government yet. You are too small and unimportant.

[akinu]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
But I do fight them, as often as I can. I also stand up on the roof and shout at people to take responsibility for their
lives instead of allowing any government to tell them what to do. If you think you can completely ignore your
government, your wrong. The only reason you haven\'t been handled appropriately is that you haven\'t successfully
irritated somebody in government yet. You are too small and unimportant.

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

True. Believe it or not sometimes a bureaucrat may get too carried away with everyday routines of policymaking and will become someone he usually is not (ex. cares less, ignores etc..) Some HEAVY public opinion helps THEM a lot too. I am not very sure that ALL of the people who are trying to pass this law knows much about what they are banning too.

[Watcher]

Id still like to hear what bruce has to say about this, but folks keep up all the forms, i sent one into them also.

[Jones]

The whole reason I created this thread was to give people the facts. People like HUNGRY dont understand what it means to live free. I told people this bill would pass if we did nothing. Hungry tells us that it will pass no matter what we do. This is a fascist way of thinking. Lets see, we live in a democracy... what does that mean again? Oh yeah! It means grass roots movements can make significant changes. And do you really think Stone Labs has lawyers? They dont even have a website! Much less a large enough profit margin for such a vestigial purpose. Jesus. I will say it again, if you know someone on DHEA, or that can see bad legislation when they see it, tell them to contact their congressman. In a few months, im sure we\'ll come up with more public and impactful ways of reaching our senators. Once the letter volume is significant, they will have to listen to us.





JJK

[franki]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
This bill in and of itself will not ban pheromones, but there is a certain domino theory in play. If they get this through, the noose tightens another notch, the drug company lobbiests exchange hi-fives briefly and quite naturally figure out what their next move is.
Actually, some control of the prohormones is clearly in order, but classifying them, criminalizing users and putting them totally out of reach of everyone, even by prescription, is a true criminal act.
Bruce


<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

This was from the last time we had this discussion about the legislation on pro-hormones.

I don\'t think the few phero-users will make a difference at all. The bigger group of bodybuilders etc. using supplements like DHEA will make more impact..

Actually, I believe Bruce moved the thread away from the pheromone forum to the health forum, because it only touches the subject of pheromones..

[belgareth]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />



The whole reason I created this thread was to give people the facts. People like HUNGRY dont understand what it means to live free. I told people this bill would pass if we did nothing. Hungry tells us that it will pass no matter what we do. This is a fascist way of thinking. Lets see, we live in a democracy... what does that mean again? Oh yeah! It means grass roots movements can make significant changes. And do you really think Stone Labs has lawyers? They dont even have a website! Much less a large enough profit margin for such a vestigial purpose. Jesus. I will say it again, if you know someone on DHEA, or that can see bad legislation when they see it, tell them to contact their congressman. In a few months, im sure we\'ll come up with more public and impactful ways of reaching our senators. Once the letter volume is significant, they will have to listen to us.





JJK

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

I never cease to be amazed at the people who whine and complain about absurd laws or higher taxes or government repression then sit on their tails and do nothing. Do you like the government allowing big business to fleece you? Do you like being forced to do things against your will or having things taken from you because \"It\'s for your own good\"? Do you like paying higher taxes because our so called leaders can\'t even balance their own checkbooks? That dumb, apathetic \"Well, it\'s gonna happen anyway\" attitude is what is causing it. If each of us, hell, if 10% of us would scream and shout every time it happened, we could make a difference. Don\'t just sit there, do something!

[franki]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
If each of us, hell, if 10% of us would scream and shout every time it happened, we could make a difference. Don\'t just sit there, do something!

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

I guess this is right, but I still have the funny feeling from the last discussion about this, that pheromone users are being used to protest against legislation that isn\'t really directed to pheromones... I know that is probably not the way it is, because pheromones might get banned also as a result of this bill, but still ...

[Jones]

... \" that pheromone users are being used to protest against legislation that isn\'t really directed to pheromones\"

For one thing. We dont know that for sure, some politicians might know about pheromones, they realize that if someone ever perfects them it could lead to something like mind control. Thats unlikely, but regardless, the reason why this bill sucks, and why everyone will realize it sucks, is becuase it bans hormones and molecules and pheromones that have not even been discovered yet! ALWAYS, always, in the history, things get banned once there is clear data on their negative reprocussions (sp). Like bb.bom says, let the gov examine each androgen specifically, and determine how dangerous it is. Remember people, the reason why we have power in this case is because this kind of \'across the board\' designation of controlled substances is scientically baseless.

[belgareth]

The point is moot. We do not need a babysitter. We are adults, allegedly free adults and we are allowing the government to arbitrarily decide how we can live our lives! Are you going to sit and allow it to continue to happen? Open your eyes and look at the pattern. Follow it out to its logical conclusion, is that how you want to live? In a society governed by the whim and whimsey of a capracious government and big businesses of debateable honesty? Acting now will be much easier than trying to get out from under their thumbs later.

[Jones]

\"Acting now will be much easier than trying to get out from under their thumbs later\"


This is certain.

[akinu]

As I said. Do not confront the government directly. If you protest like Greenpeace protesters, they wont listen you. Lobby (or find someone who can) among the special interest groups trying to make the government pass this ban.

[xvs]

This bill will ban pheromones.

Here\'s some more information:

http://www.vrp.com/hr207/hr207_03.html (\"http://www.vrp.com/hr207/hr207_03.html\")

It specifically will ban DHEA and other steroids. All pheromones are steroids. They are very very close to DHEA in structure, and in fact many are made using testosterone as a starting material.

The best way to prevent a bill from becoming law is for everyone to write their congressmen and senators. They ARE susceptable to popular pressure. They want to get votes.

In your letters, make the point that this bill would ban common everyday supplements taken by millions of americans and senior citizens, like DHEA.

[Jones]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
As I said. Do not confront the government directly. If you protest like Greenpeace protesters, they wont listen you. Lobby (or find someone who can) among the special interest groups trying to make the government pass this ban.

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">


well lets do both

[PheroX]

I have been lurking on the forums for a while now, never really had anything to say but on this subject its different.. To me it seems that this bill will probably include pheromones, some people don’t seem to care very much about this law but if nobody stands up to it law makers would see no reason not to pass it. What we need to do is get the companies and scientific community to also speak up on this matter. We alone can’t do very much.

We all love our pheromones, they have helped us out allot when meeting women and is usually the reason on wheather or not you get laid or not.

[akinu]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
As I said. Do not confront the government directly. If you protest like Greenpeace protesters, they wont listen you. Lobby (or find someone who can) among the special interest groups trying to make the government pass this ban.

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">


well lets do both

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

Up to you. I am not a US citizen, so I cant do much. US government does not listen to anyone, let alone the citizen of a nation who costed thousands of dollars to US by not passing the resolution allowing US troops to station. So do as you wish. But, direct confrontation rarely succeeds. Lobbying and covert ops are the best tools for you.

[Jones]

The nutritional supplement industry operates on razor thin profit margins. I doubt they have the money to lobby, of create PACs. (political action commitees). Apeal to logic thought the scientific community will be pursued.

[Hungry]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
The only reason you haven\'t been handled appropriately is that you haven\'t successfully irritated somebody in government yet. You are too small and unimportant.

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

Exactly. I know how to get whatever I want without causing much of a fuss. You can go right ahead and foam at the mouth about whatever you like. Meanwhile, I\'ll go right ahead and live my life as I want.

Now, if you\'ve finished diverging from the issue of this thread, maybe we can get back to the discussion about whether *pheromones* will be banned or not.

And let me just state *yet again* that I never said you shouldn\'t take action against this bill, in fact I offered suggestions about the actions you could take, and *yet again* I think you should take whatever measures you think appropriate, and *yet again* that either way, just don\'t panic about it.


Hungry

[Hungry]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
As I said. Do not confront the government directly. If you protest like Greenpeace protesters, they wont listen you. Lobby (or find someone who can) among the special interest groups trying to make the government pass this ban.

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

Which is what I suggested, Akinu. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

But these guys are too rabid with self-righteous indignation to listen to sense.


Hungry

[Hungry]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
The whole reason I created this thread was to give people the facts. People like HUNGRY dont understand what it means to live free.

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

Dude, that\'s just plain ignorant.

If you really believe you live \"free\", maybe you should take a closer look at your own laws instead of simply spouting propaganda.

You lot have far less personal freedom than many countries. And you\'re worried about pheromones? Pffft!

No wonder you\'re in such a mess.


Hungry

[Quorum]

Hello,

I’ve been a lurker on these forums for a while. But as someone with a good deal of experience as a congressional staffer from many years ago, I couldn’t resist the urge to finally get a login name and to join in on this discussion.

I’m glad people are keeping an eye on this HR 207. I don’t claim to be an expert on the Controlled Substances Act, but in looking at the text of the bill itself, it does seem possible, at the very least, that pheros would be affected. But I just wanted to offer a few thoughts to put this issue in perspective:

1. Realize, as a general matter, that thousands of bills are introduced in Congress every year. Relatively few pass into law. It’s a very difficult, very unpredictable process.

2. A bill that does manage to pass into law RARELY looks exactly the same as it did when it was introduced. Along the way, there may be numerous opportunities to amend the text. While it’s rare for a bill, these days, to go through every possible committee hearing, markup, etc., and many bills do get “fast tracked” through the House or the Senate, the truth is that there’s almost always some opportunity along the way to change the bill to make it more favorable for everyone (of course, sometimes bills are made even harsher that way).

3. A good way to track the progress of a bill, in the event it does move, is to go to http://thomas.loc.gov (\"http://thomas.loc.gov\"), enter “HR 207” where it allows you to enter in the Bill Number, and from the next screen you can go to “Bill Summary &amp; Status” file to see where it is in the legislative process. In this case, HR 207 hasn’t gone anywhere. The fact that it has been referred to a few subcommittees means absolutely nothing, as every bill is automatically referred to one or more of them. If you see anything more than that, especially a markup, then it may be time to start paying more attention.

4. With the above in mind, it’s premature at best to use a subject line like “PHEROMONE BAN IN USA* BEGINS 2004” for this thread.

5. XVS, in an earlier post, said that the best way to stop this bill is for people to contact their Senators &amp; Reps. He’s right. Constituent pressure doesn’t always work, but it almost always helps. In this case, you should focus your attention on the House, since it’s a House bill. Send a letter. You’ll usually get a form letter at first, but follow up with a call to whatever staffer is tracking the issue (there’s usually one), be very nice to him or her and keep on checking in every month or so. They’re usually extremely busy (contrary to popular opinion, very overworked and underpaid – I know I was), but they generally do want to try to help the people who can vote their bosses in or out of office.

6. It wouldn’t also hurt to call one of the subcommittees with jurisdiction over the bill and try to get a hold of a staffer, on either the majority or minority side, who has been assigned to cover the issue and might be able to tell you what the chances are of this particular bill actually moving. Committee staffers are sometimes helpful, sometimes not, so don’t be stunned if you can’t get a hold of somebody. Again, they’re very overworked, so be very nice.

7. The NFL, MLB, and a few other major sports bodies support this bill. While that does improve its chances, there are forces on the other side. These include organizations such as the United Supplement Freedom Association at http://www.usfa.biz/. (\"http://www.usfa.biz/.\") I don’t know how much clout they have compared to the NFL, but they’re out there. Another couple of allies might, possibly, include Senator Orrin Hatch. I don’t like a lot of what he does, but he has been extremely good to the herbal/supplement industry (Maybe it’s because his son is a lobbyist for them!). If this bill does move, I expect it’ll have to go through his Judiciary Committee, and it would be almost completely up to him as to whether it continues moving or not. Senator Tom Harkin is also a big supporter of the supplement industry. I don’t know what position they’d take on this bill, given the concerns that have been raised with the use of andro in sports, but if anyone narrows the scope of the bill down, I bet it would be one of them.

All this is to say one thing: don’t panic. Keep on buying pheros if you like them, as I do, but you don’t need to clean out Bruce’s inventory just yet . . .

[Hungry]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
I’ve been a lurker on these forums for a while. But as someone with a good deal of experience as a congressional staffer from many years ago, I couldn’t resist the urge to finally get a login name and to join in on this discussion.

.. etc...

All this is to say one thing: don’t panic. Keep on buying pheros if you like them, as I do, but you don’t need to clean out Bruce’s inventory just yet . . .


<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

Somebody with some sense at last. Very informative post. Nice work. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif


Hungry

[EXIT63]

Quorum,
Excellent post. Welcome to the forum.

[jose]

[/qutoe]

All this is to say one thing: don’t panic. Keep on buying pheros if you like them, as I do, but you don’t need to clean out Bruce’s inventory just yet . . .


<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
Nice post, I think some people were over reacting about the whole thing. But it\'s good to keep track and also very informative of how Bills pass into law.

[PheroX]

would all pheromone products be banned or just a few, if they did pass this bill and if it did ban pheromones.

[xvs]

All pheromones are steroids therefore all pheromones will be banned.

This is NOT a joke and not a distant possibility, and people are not overreacting. If the law is passed, that\'s it. They\'re illegal.

[DrSmellThis]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
All pheromones are steroids therefore all pheromones will be banned.

This is NOT a joke and not a distant possibility, and people are not overreacting. If the law is passed, that\'s it. They\'re illegal.


<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
Some steroids (anabolic) are banned now. Pheros are still legal because they are so weak in strength.

Great post, quorum. Welcome. Just keep pumping out those letters and calls. No sense worrying.

[Jones]

My title was written the way it was to get attention. We dont know FOR SURE they will be banned. BUT we should all work to ammend or try to kill this bill.

[Jones]

bump

[Jones]

bbbb ump

[xvs]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
My title was written the way it was to get attention. We dont know FOR SURE they will be banned. BUT we should all work to ammend or try to kill this bill.

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

If the bill passes, FOR SURE pheros will be banned.

That\'s the way it\'s written.

Not only will you not be able to purchase them, but you could be arrested for having them in your posession!

[Jones]

b,b,b,b bump p p p ,,,

[Cloud9]

I\'d go with what Dr. Smellthis said on how they are too weak to be banned, not to mention our own bodies make this stuff to a certain extent. I think it would be hard to ban something that is natural in the sense that we produce it ourselves in small amounts.

[Andy]

.. like Testosterone, growth hormones, GHB, Dopamine or Morphines? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[belgareth]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
I\'d go with what Dr. Smellthis said on how they are too weak to be banned, not to mention our own bodies make this stuff to a certain extent. I think it would be hard to ban something that is natural in the sense that we produce it ourselves in small amounts.

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

Just because a law is ridiculous and/or unenforceable does not mean they won\'t pass it. Seems to me that a lot of the laws passed fit that description.

[metroman]

Plus there is alot of conjecture in the serious scientifc community that they dont work at all. I know it\'s incredulous to us here on the forum because most of us know that they certainly do work but I think its healthy to have serious scientists questioning the validity of pheros effects at all. We can trot them out &amp; parade them before congressional commitees looking into the issue. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

[Andy]

The so called serious scientific comunity was convinced that steroids don\'t work back then in the 70\'s.

[PheroX]

well there is reason to worry about all this, i could care less about the steroids as long as pheromones are sitll around. We just need to let congress know that pheromones should be kept legal so they can continue to be explored. As long as we point out that they actually contain very little ammounts of \"steroids\"

[DrSmellThis]

To put it another way: As anabolic steroid (testosterone) derivatives, most of the pheromones you see here may already be as \"illegal\" as they will ever be. Yet they are permitted.

This is one time I\'m thankful for Erox\'s lawyers.

A lawyer could well make the case that the (now proposed) new law adds nothing relevant to the discussion of pheromones. It would be like beating a dead horse. Any existing court rulings permitting pheromones, under current law, would be the relevant precedents for court interpretation of any new supplement laws.

[PheroX]

drsmellthis could you clarify that, it sounds like your saying that since pheromones are still legal because of thier low ammounts of nol and anderstone that they would continue to be legal even with this new law

[DrSmellThis]

I don\'t know the future, but I would hope.