Pheromone theory – Success and failure explained

[ironration]

I think I have figured out why pheromones work great for some people and not at all for others.

I do not think it has that much to do with finding your personal optimal dosage since we typically apply doses that are 100 times as strong as what anyone could produce naturally.

I think it comes down to one thing: believability:

It has already been discussed on this forum that using high amounts of none would not work that great if you still act as a beta, since your phero signature is not congruent with your behaviour. (I.e. the female first thinks that you are alpha due to the pheromones, but soon finds out from your behaviour that you are not).

But believability may be even more important for another reason:

If you are average or good looking, having an attractive phero signature (i.e. you have applied a good mix) may be believable on you.

But, if you are ugly, your looks and your pheromone signature are not matching each other. The female may smell someone attractive, but then see you and dismisses it, since it clearly cannot be you.

You may think that I am wrong, but consider this:
How many on this forum with good or average looks have had success with pheromones?
How many on this forum with bad looks have had success with pheromones?

I rest my case.

[monesrule]

i think being good looking and being alpha and beta are two different things, though somewhat tied. they still shouldn\'t be confused.

I also wonder who the hell in normal society ever thinks of alhpa and beta stuff? i mean, maybe females do, but it seems to me they all have their own preferences as to who they find attractive. yes, there is a commonality, but every woman\'s knight in shining armor is different.

I think alpha and beta is bigger on these boards then real life. Maybe i am wrong, i am not a female.

[ironration]

Well alpha and betas were not really my point. My point is a good pheromone mix on someone visually unattractive does not work, since it is not believable on that person.

[monesrule]

oh....but does hormone production relate to looks? I think it does somewhat. But I am not sure that looks have anything to do with phermone signuature believeability.

If you are saying it is easier to sell a house on a nice plot of land than on an average plot or a dump, well, you are right about that.

I wonder though if a lot of none on a short guy isn\'t \"bought\" by females because none is related to testosterone, and testosterone with height.

[Cloud9]

testosterone stunts your height if you have more while your growing. Growth horomone from the pituatary gland gives you height. testosterone relates to muscle mass. whether you are 5\'3\'\' or 6\' feet tall.

[monesrule]

does growth hormone contribute to phermones output?

[Cloud9]

I doubt it. It probably has to do with genetics. pheromones are androgens, so maybe if you have a higher testosterone level you will produce more pheromones since the two are androgens.

[Skyy]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
oh....but does hormone production relate to looks? I think it does somewhat. But I am not sure that looks have anything to do with phermone signuature believeability.

If you are saying it is easier to sell a house on a nice plot of land than on an average plot or a dump, well, you are right about that.

I wonder though if a lot of none on a short guy isn\'t \"bought\" by females because none is related to testosterone, and testosterone with height.

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

We should find a midget and do some tests on him. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[ToBeOrNotToBe]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
oh....but does hormone production relate to looks? I think it does somewhat. But I am not sure that looks have anything to do with phermone signuature believeability.

If you are saying it is easier to sell a house on a nice plot of land than on an average plot or a dump, well, you are right about that.

I wonder though if a lot of none on a short guy isn\'t \"bought\" by females because none is related to testosterone, and testosterone with height.

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

You\'re wrong... testosterone is not related to height in the way you seem to think. Of course it has to do with it, but also with our behaviour, muscle mass (this one, very important), sexual life, etc etc... I give you an example. People suffering from the Kleinfelter Syndrome have the cariotype 47, XXY and have a lower production of testosterone. However, they all are very tall people.

[Cloud9]

anybody need some horse balls for their sacks for more testosterone production? I wonder how much you would come?

[monesrule]

i\'ll take your word for it but i believed it because of what i read in the pherocon conference media article:

“People understand that their food choice is based on the smell of food, not its visual appeal. Why would their mate choice be any different?” Kohl, a small man with flushed skin, explains that women only think they like tall, dark and handsome men for the way they look. It’s really about their smell—tall, dark and handsome men have more testosterone, Kohl says. “Human nature is the same as all other animals,” he explains.

http://www.lasvegasweekly.com/2003/03_27/news_upfront3.html (\"http://www.lasvegasweekly.com/2003/03_27/news_upfront3.html\")

[ironration]

Well Kohl is selling a product named Scent of Eros. Of course he is going to downplay looks - it would be bad business to do otherwise.

[ToBeOrNotToBe]

Testosterone has also to do with height, of course.

But someone who produces a high ammount of testosterone may also not be tall. He can even be short. And you can find tall people who produce less testosterone. This is the main sexual hormone of a man and it is responsible for turning an infant into a teenager and then a man.

But of course there is an association between the height of a person and its hormone production.

[JC6]

\"Alpha-ness\" comes out in many subtle ways. Tone of voice. Eye contact. Facial expression. Steadiness of movement. Character. Etc.

Looks, like mones (I suspect - I\'m new), are good for initial attraction, but in the longer term, most women probably are more attracted to your personality (or not, as the case may be).

[monesrule]

\"Alpha-ness\" comes out in many subtle ways. Tone of voice. Eye contact. Facial expression. Steadiness of movement. Character. Etc.&gt;&gt;&gt;

Thank you. And all those siginals, except maybe character, are siginals of confidence.

[Phantom]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Testosterone has also to do with height, of course.

But someone who produces a high ammount of testosterone may also not be tall. He can even be short. And you can find tall people who produce less testosterone. This is the main sexual hormone of a man and it is responsible for turning an infant into a teenager and then a man.

But of course there is an association between the height of a person and its hormone production.

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\"> Estrogen is the main hormone that cause growth in height, thats why girls get their growth spurts first because the have higher estrogen than males /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[tallmacky]

ugly guys: wear a significant less then the prescribed amounts.

average guys: wear a bit less then the prescribed amounts.

good looking guys: do whatever you want.

partially kidding here

[tallmacky]

ugly guys: wear a significant less then the prescribed amounts.

average guys: wear a bit less then the prescribed amounts.

good looking guys: do whatever you want.

partially kidding here

[koolking1]

Although we may choose our food based upon smell, food presentation is an important aspect of fine dining.

[drchaos]

As far as I have heard (i.e. vague memory), the best relationship between testosterone production and physical appearance (outside obvious musculature) is in the bones of the jaw.

Apparently those guys who had a lot of testosterone in puberty get long square faces, i.e. a large distance (vertically) between the ear-level and the jawline---the classic \"rugged\" look.

Some scientists took a look at yearbook photos from the military Academies, measured the various facial proportions and ranked them. It turned out that many years later (like 20 or 30) those men with the most testosterone-influenced faces were much more likely to make it to be a top general or other officer.

[tallmacky]

cool post drcaos, have you also noticed that guys that go in the army generally seem from facial appearence and so forth to have high levels of testostorone?

My jawline is pretty manly and is wide, slim at the chin of course and widens out pretty good distance. Most of the stuff facial wise for me is pretty high test except for having a totally square head which I don\'t think I have.

I guess women are looking for the part, but if it is known that this type of vibe is coming from a guy who doesn\'t fit it she may have a couple more double takes and what the f#cks but she will gradually grab on to the concept if the guy doesn\'t blow it.

[monesrule]

Do you know that the distance between a woman\'s nose and mouth makes a tremendous difference in whether people think she is georgeous or good-looking? And the difference is likemilimeters or something ridiculously small.

If you don\'t believe me, take a picutre in a magazine of a wman\'s face and fold it up to make the mouth slightly closer to the nose. If you can somehow elongate that picture, then you will see the opposite effect.

[tallmacky]

Are attraction to the human face is very specific many details are looked at and analyized. I was watching a discovery channel program and they actually made a composite through thousands of mens personal likes all over the world of one women who was considered to be the most beautiful, of course she was a computer generated image but she looked very real if I can find it I will post it.

[Skyy]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Do you know that the distance between a woman\'s nose and mouth makes a tremendous difference in whether people think she is georgeous or good-looking? And the difference is likemilimeters or something ridiculously small.


If you don\'t believe me, take a picutre in a magazine of a wman\'s face and fold it up to make the mouth slightly closer to the nose. If you can somehow elongate that picture, then you will see the opposite effect.

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">


That is so true

[pelotudo]

Have any of you guys tried PI/w and gotten the same effects (as well as higher T levels for yourself b/c of the coups) as SoE b/c of the large amounts of -nol it contains?

[monesrule]

i heard about it on the radio with a plastic surgeon talking about the phenomena

[travis]

Ironration,

Is your pheromone working for you if not PM me and I\'ll tell where you could give your remaining Pheromone. I\'ll PM you my home address, you could send it there and for sure you just made a guy happy. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

[tallmacky]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Ironration,

Is your pheromone working for you if not PM me and I\'ll tell where you could give your remaining Pheromone. I\'ll PM you my home address, you could send it there and for sure you just made a guy happy. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif that one was pretty funny travis, I mean what the heck is your problem man we have to help this guy.

I think ironation needs to buy a plan ticket and visit somewhere in florida like Miami.

[metroman]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
I think I have figured out why pheromones work great for some people and not at all for others.

I do not think it has that much to do with finding your personal optimal dosage since we typically apply doses that are 100 times as strong as what anyone could produce naturally.

I think it comes down to one thing: believability:

It has already been discussed on this forum that using high amounts of none would not work that great if you still act as a beta, since your phero signature is not congruent with your behaviour. (I.e. the female first thinks that you are alpha due to the pheromones, but soon finds out from your behaviour that you are not).

But believability may be even more important for another reason:

If you are average or good looking, having an attractive phero signature (i.e. you have applied a good mix) may be believable on you.

But, if you are ugly, your looks and your pheromone signature are not matching each other. The female may smell someone attractive, but then see you and dismisses it, since it clearly cannot be you.

You may think that I am wrong, but consider this:
How many on this forum with good or average looks have had success with pheromones?
How many on this forum with bad looks have had success with pheromones?

I rest my case.


<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

But getting back to the original theory, I disagree Ironration. If mones give you 100xs more than what any human could naturally produce then they would seem incongruous on any of us including a Brad Pitt or a George Clooney. By the way Brad Pitt isn\'t very tall. And how do you explain Woody Allens success with the ladies. He\'s been with every hottie in Hollywood in his era. He\'s short, small frame not very good looking.

[Skyy]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
I think I have figured out why pheromones work great for some people and not at all for others.

I do not think it has that much to do with finding your personal optimal dosage since we typically apply doses that are 100 times as strong as what anyone could produce naturally.

I think it comes down to one thing: believability:

It has already been discussed on this forum that using high amounts of none would not work that great if you still act as a beta, since your phero signature is not congruent with your behaviour. (I.e. the female first thinks that you are alpha due to the pheromones, but soon finds out from your behaviour that you are not).

But believability may be even more important for another reason:

If you are average or good looking, having an attractive phero signature (i.e. you have applied a good mix) may be believable on you.

But, if you are ugly, your looks and your pheromone signature are not matching each other. The female may smell someone attractive, but then see you and dismisses it, since it clearly cannot be you.

You may think that I am wrong, but consider this:
How many on this forum with good or average looks have had success with pheromones?
How many on this forum with bad looks have had success with pheromones?

I rest my case.


<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

But getting back to the original theory, I disagree Ironration. If mones give you 100xs more than what any human could naturally produce then they would seem incongruous on any of us including a Brad Pitt or a George Clooney. By the way Brad Pitt isn\'t very tall. And how do you explain Woody Allens success with the ladies. He\'s been with every hottie in Hollywood in his era. He\'s short, small frame not very good looking.

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

he\'s got $$$

[metroman]

Yes he\'s got a few $$$ and sense of humor so from that statement I can conclude that being a rich comedian trumps pheros. So we should get rid of the pheoros &amp; start memorizing joke lines, working on our timing &amp; investing in the market. Dont forget he\'s competing in an arena where there are a lot of good looking rich men.

[Mtnjim]

\"Are attraction to the human face is very specific many details are looked at and analyized.\"

It is balance and symmetry of the face that indicates \"good genes\". Larger breasts and wide hips means better able to have healthy babies and feed them. 1,000,000 years of evolution

[metroman]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
\"Are attraction to the human face is very specific many details are looked at and analyized.\"

It is balance and symmetry of the face that indicates \"good genes\". Larger breasts and wide hips means better able to have healthy babies and feed them. 1,000,000 years of evolution

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

I think you could have made that statement in the 50\'s the age of Marilyn Monroe &amp; Jane Mansfield. But if you haven\'t seen the covers of the magazines in the supermarket these days there isn\'t a one that isn\'t rail thin with small to medium size perfectly perky breasts.

[Mtnjim]

\"But if you haven\'t seen the covers of the magazines in the supermarket these days there isn\'t a one that isn\'t rail thin with small to medium size perfectly perky breasts.\"

So they are not designed to have babies, only be sex machines /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Actually, there was a study done (Playboy Centerfolds and Miss Americas stats used) and for the past 100 + years the RATIOS (hip to waist etc) have remained constant.

[tallmacky]

Symmetry in a man is much much more looked at by women and appreciated, Denzel Washington is said to have very good symmetry etc... George Clooney is he good looking? Brad pitt\'s jawline probably does it in for him.

[ironration]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
But getting back to the original theory, I disagree Ironration. If mones give you 100xs more than what any human could naturally produce then they would seem incongruous on any of us including a Brad Pitt or a George Clooney. By the way Brad Pitt isn\'t very tall. And how do you explain Woody Allens success with the ladies. He\'s been with every hottie in Hollywood in his era. He\'s short, small frame not very good looking.

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

Well maybe it is not possible to quantify pheromone signatures on a scale like guy A smells 3.5 times as good as guy B. Maybe the classification is just unattractive, attractive, very attractive. So if I wear a pheromone signature that is 50 times stronger then Brad Pits, it would still put me in the same pheromone category as him. This seems reasonable since why would nature prepare us to for making pheromone categorises beyond \"very attractive\", when such pheromone signatures never was present during our evolution.

So Brad Pits very attractive pheromone signature is congruent with his looks (10/10). Joe Bad Looking’s very attractive pheromone signature is not congruent with his looks (4/10).

As for Woody Alllen, being famous and rich is enough to get laid like a rabbit for any guy.

[Charisma]

Isn\'t \'self-esteem\' the magic word overhere?

[Elana]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Apparently those guys who had a lot of testosterone in puberty get long square faces, i.e. a large distance (vertically) between the ear-level and the jawline---the classic \"rugged\" look.

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm Israeli men have that look.
They are about as Alpha as they come.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Woody Allen is said to be a world class, incredible kisser. He\'s extremely intelligent and has a great sense of humor. There are three huge plusses.

[monesrule]

I can\'t believe he got involved with his step daughter!!

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Yeah, and he\'s a big ol\' perve, too. That\'s ... um ... maybe a fourth advantage. j/k

[TBiRD]

I agree with the theory ! And I also think that this is correct :
\"
ugly guys: wear a significant less then the prescribed amounts.
average guys: wear a bit less then the prescribed amounts.
good looking guys: do whatever you want. \"


However , alpha behaviour ALWAYS wins over looks/pheromones whatever. An alpha male just takes what he wants being gentleman and [bad word] about it at the same time. A perfect 10 looking guy who is shy/whimpy/not-confident/doesn\'t approach women WILL NOT GET LAID ! An ugly but nonetheless selfconfident alpha male WILL. Thats 100% true. Want proof ? Hit the mall and see how many ugly guys have nice girlfriends...think about your life experiences and how many people u know who are alpha and always have women around them.

To sum it up :

Beta/whimp/looser behaviour + the best pheromonemix ever will not get u far.

ugly looks + alpha behaviour = You get laid
ugly looks + alpha behaviour + pheros = You get laid even more often !

average 2 good looks + alpha behaviour + pheros = YOU HAVE free choice over the women u like to bed.

Putting on pheros and hoping they do ALL the work for u is not alpha behaviour !!!! An alpha male is successfull , with and without pheros...he is just MORE successfull with pheros.


+ the success and failure theory is good , however nothing new ! Its pretty , much common sense , that if u put on shitloads of -nol u need to act on it : Crack jokes and uch..if u put on much -none : BE THE ALPHA MAN ! DOn\'t confuse everybody with ill behaviour.

+ When I said an alpha male with bad looks still gets laid , I was talking about facial features (big nose /moles...) + body features (short / fat...)
HAving a nice harcut /clean white teeth / cut nails / being well dressed) is still a must ! Or you don\'t come across as alpha !

[monesrule]

You guys are focus too much on seperating men into alpha and beta categories. I don\'t think the line is that clear and I think chemistry and rapport is a far bigger draw. Of course mones only help, but it is like playing a game of tennis. You got to have similarities and a common ground to have a competitive game, where you keep hitting the ball back and forth

[Elana]

I am just really attracted to Alpha males. I always have been. Many women are not into that type of man.

[monesrule]

when you say alpha males, do you determine that by looking at them or by their confidence, body lanaguage?

Also, how come you don\'t move to Israel?

[Elana]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Also, how come you don\'t move to Israel?

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

Why do you want to get rid of me? I have spend plenty of time there. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

I can just feel an alpha man\'s presence, and it drives me crazy.

[TBiRD]

\"I am just really attracted to Alpha males. I always have been. Many women are not into that type of man. \"

EXACTLY , and I wouldn\'t be attracted to a girl who is not attracted to an alpha behaviour , in the first place. And so the circle closes : Beta women + beta males....Alpha males + whatever they like /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


+ It\'s not me who is separating TOO MUCH between alphas and betas.....LIFE DOES ! SO far to the advantage of the alphas /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Lucky]

&lt;Woody Allen is said to be a world class, incredible kisser.&gt;

This is hard to admit. There is NO WAY I could kiss that man, no way. His look is repulsive to me, so, like Andy, I\'d never get to the second step.

I sound like the guys, don\'t I?

[MOBLEYC57]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
&lt;Woody Allen is said to be a world class, incredible kisser.&gt;

This is hard to admit. There is NO WAY I could kiss that man, no way. His look is repulsive to me, so, like Andy, I\'d never get to the second step.

I sound like the guys, don\'t I?

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

You do sound like some of the guys Lucky /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif. Come on over and watch the playoffs with me! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif It\'s not as bad as people try to form it. You\'ve kinda shown yourself why. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif YOU know what turns you on, and WON\'T settle for less. PERIOD. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif There are some that will settle for less for whatever reason, and there are some of US that won\'t. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

[tallmacky]

Hey monesrule, I don\'t think we focus on alpha and beta at all too much, I know it sounds all scientific and maybe at times stupid but trust me its not!? hehe. At times women prefer men who act well very manly or what we think of as being manly, hey times change and we do a bit aswell. Let me put it in your eyes, can you possibly imagine liking a girl who does the following; doesn\'t shower often and smells, farts, talks like a guy (dialect/word use), trys to control everything you do, constantly trys to overpower you mentally and physcially(maybe a turn on), talks down to you like you are a child? Well I don\'t want a girl that acts like a guy at all which is what that is. Girls who act very feminite are much more of a turn on, how many guys go for Tomboys?

TBiRD is right of what he said above, a guy can be a perfect 10, so goodlooking that if he wore a wig most guys would do him etc... He will never ever get picked up by girls and have sex with them right away with no personality or alphaness at all(maybe under a rare rare condition). Sure the girls may fantasize about him (like me) when they masturbate but there is no connection and usually that is as far as it goes.

Here is how it seems to go with women who want a bit more then just a fantasy
1. Alphaness/Personality
2. Social standing/wealth/power/popularity
3. Good attractive looks

If girls judged guys by looks alone I would be a good quality whore, but unfortunitly for me (or you who knows) it doesn\'t work that way, on account I have a terrible personality, and go around acting like an ass it doesn\'t help. Girls may whisper oh he is hot, or a girl will just call out you are hot or crap like that but in terms of girlfriends and such looks don\'t help much in a guys position. I remember one day I was wearing a bit of -mones and this girl who has been eyeing me for so damn long I am talking about really intense I am dreaming about you/I want you looks and hints, she was talking to a friend that was sitting next to me and her friend who was flipping her hair and looking at me alot said something like you came over here because you like this guy (I was trying act as if I was not paying attention). I am certain they were talking about me, because she then goes well it would never work out quietly and so on. Maybe I give off that I am just a f4Ck and thats it and so on. Even before -mones it was a bit like that.

I have seen other friends like one friend of mine that is really good looking who now just got his first GF because he was non engaging at all and did nothing or came off really bad to girls I mean bad (his personality sucks). The ugly guys may be a bit less confident and try really hard I see it all the time, like this really short sort off ugly kid that tries to talk to every girl he can and he is getting more action then me anyhow (skanks heheh). Another thing the girls that may look at me all day and like me in a sexual attractive way have absolutely no emotional feelings for me, I can walk right by them and have them say nothing and so on.

Girls will try to make any guy they are with cute anyways, and many judge attractiveness of mals on personality, the most popular guys in school are guys who try so hard at everything and are usually pretty damn ugly, but no one seems to notice. Girls on the other hand are treated better then others on looks alone, anytime I hear a guy explain a girl its always yeah that hot girl and that is what she is judged on, it easier for women, but in the end it all equals out.

EDIT:

That one girl that eyes me alot I thought was rubbing her thighs together and masturbating one day, I think I posted about that awhile ago, I could be off on that one but let me dream on.

[monesrule]

all i am saying is just chill out, focus on yourself, not how you compare to tohers. That doesn\'t matter. If you have your sh-t together upstairs, then most women will respect you as a potential sexual partner. If you have issues, it is gonna come through, and you just will lose alot of ground.

I really don\'t see how alpha and beta relate to any of that, so that is why it puzzles me why it is focused on so much on this board.

[Lucky]

Tallmacky,

Are you an ass to girls on purpose? Why?

When\'s your birthday?

[tallmacky]

hmmm I think its my personality and it comes off like that alot when its not meant, though I can be a real big ass, subtle thought, maybe seems egotistical at times, I don\'t outright hurt girls, I think I give off a vibe of I really don\'t like you in that way, and maybe a bit void, still acting like a child. I am not always like this, the few girls I generally like I may show dis-interest but I\'m not mean.

June 23rd 1985

[TBiRD]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Sure the girls may fantasize about him (like me) when they masturbate but there is no connection and usually that is as far as it goes.


<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

rofl , when I read this I thought u said , u would masturbate 2 male perfect 10\'s lol.
Be carefull with your word placement. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Besides that , good post and nice backup.

[tallmacky]

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif ahh god that is funny, I think I should take belgareth\'s techniques into place, I am very incoherent, sloppy, and random with some of my posts. I should try to breath slowly and think in order. Oh its hard too heheh.

[foofoo]

a very interesting thread, especially the idea of personal confidence displayed through alpha charactures.

however, what we have to remember is that there are dozens of factors really. although at first girls may be attracted to you, in order for you to maintain that interest in specific targets, you have to partake an active role. by putting mones on we have created the intention of attracting women, yet we also have to act upon that intention in order to obtain synergy in our results, which is a fair enough thesis really.

with reference to this alpha-beta idea, i would say that i was neither alpha nor beta, a bit of both really. alpha in the sense that i can act independently, most importantly in terms of thought (ie i dont follow like a sheep, creating a potent differentiation), and at the same time mixing with other alpha-like characters in my year.

on the other side of the coin, i mix with beta guys as well, who i idenntify as having small social circles, (although im not part of those circles and actively distance myself from fully engaging with them) . Simply put i mix with everyone /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

i would also say that i have confidence, and i say that because i do public speeches in front of hundreds of people, not afraid to speak out, argue, challenge, even highly sacrosanct things to people (ie religion, evolution, politics, history) , although i sometimes my limbs and heart sometimes get a bit pumped up /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif id call the prime minister an idiot if i saw him /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif so confidence is not the proble here

what ive noticed as my weaknesses howvere is that my chit chat with teachers displays a weak voice for no apparent reason (subconscious recessive condition in their presence?)

although im not shy to talk + id rate myself 9 in looks (worst and only bbad feature = nose), i work out often, have won various medals etc yet even with all this, i have a lack of female copanionship, girlsa look at me etc now and again, buut nothing concreate , even with mones. therefore i feel that i dont really fit into any of the theories that your really descriibing, , did i mention the bittch that said i was threatening her? (though i wasnt? = possible sign of too much \"dominance\" in the unconventrional sense cos im not) solution= give mones some more time? and everything is a result of distinct personality? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif porbably actually lack of effort on my behalf + left it too late (school ends in a onth forever for me /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif)

[TBiRD]

Yes , all comes down to a lack of effort on your side !!!!!!

Try to chat up 5 women daily instead of 0 , and u\'ll be much happier with life and yourself ... 9of10 looks + a muscular body + pheros + obviously the brains and confidence to back it all up and still not getting laid ? = not enough effort...Approach approach approach...go clubbing , hit the partys while u can.

Probably the next one who posts after me will suggest WAGG, since u seem intimidating to some women. A great guy image wouldn\'t hurt at all...so I\'m suggesting it myself. However even with WAGG u need to approach...

Have u read gunwitch ? I wonder how any guy can go to bed alone with all the quality info floating around on the internet.

Seriously , tommorrow u wake up and decide to talk to atleast 5 attractive women/girls. Just walk over if she shows ANY kind of interest and say the best always working magic pick-up line : \"Hi !\"
Do that on a daily basis...and I\'m sure u\'ll report back in a week that u hooked up with a new girl.
Don\'t even start to think up reasons NOT to approach the fine ladies..thats all lame excuses.




+ Last but not least (sorry couldn\'t resist - don\'t feel offended please) Get a nose-job done if it bothers u /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[metroman]

I agree with a lot of whats been said. I think guys who aren\'t as outgoing towards meeting women think if they use a little mones they wont have to make any effort. But as its been said mones only help, you still have to make an effort. As Tbird is saying probably the best thing to do is just hit on anything that ruffles your shirt &amp; so what if you get shot down just move on the next one.

[metroman]

I also think were all probably a combo of alpha &amp; beta behaviour characteristics. All because a guy beta/wimps out when it comes to meeting women because he\'s had some bad experiences in his life doesn\'t mean he doesn\'t behave alpha when it comes to other things. I can be a very fast &amp; aggressive &amp; alpha type person when it comes to work &amp; making money but because of various life experiences I\'m shy when it comes to meeting women. A lot of it also depends on your upbringing.

[Watcher]

Women at the fertile time of the month will go for alphas.
Those at non-fertile time prefer betas. Its about the alpha = looks musculine has high test, has high ANone produciton.
Beta = looks feminine = higher Anol production
Those in between from a biological perspective high betas or semi alphas have high Arone production and get 7-8 women but have to still have balls to approach, but women are more easily gotten to sex, they require less effort than say a beta in terms of attention mating behaviour. Arone signals semi dominance but more trustworthyness and being sexy but still being supportive and a good provider. Calm but alert.

Hope this adds a pheormone perspective to the discussion.

[Cloud9]

maybe thats why AE works so well, because it covers all bases...(Watcher)

[foofoo]

i dont know about the wagg, i hear that is good for intimidatring people but i think it was just the chicks persoanlity/who she is sort of thing maybe cos i dont notice it with others really, but im open to all suggestions.

thinking about it now saying hi ddoes defuse a lot of thought tension, one day this chick who i thought hated me, never smiled in my presence etc, i said hi to her, and then she smiled and defused everything!

also ive just got some npa in today, its none can be mitigated with soe ?