Phew...Are we lucky!

[Briela]

According to today\'s regulators and bureaucrats, those of us who were kids in the 40\'s, 50\'s, 60\'s, or 70\'s probably shouldn\'t have survived.


WHY?

Our baby cribs were covered with bright colored lead-based paint.

We had no childproof medicine bottles, doors, or cabinets, and what in the heck was a bike helmet?

We won\'t even talk about hitchhiking . . .

As kids we would be carted around in cars with no seat belts or air bags and riding in the back of a truck on a warm day was always a special treat.


We would spend hours building scooters . . .skateboards . .. . go-carts out of old wood and rusty scraps, then rode down hills, only to find out we forgot the brakes . . . but we had our feet!

We would leave home in the morning and play all day, as long as we were back when the street lights came on. (And no one was able to reach us because cell phones hadn\'t been invented.)

We fell out of trees, got cuts, broke bones and teeth, and there were no lawsuits from these accidents. They were accidents. Remember accidents? No one was to blame, but us.

We had fights and punched each other and got black and blue and learned to get over it.

We drank water from the garden hose and not from a bottle. We ate cakes, bread and butter, and drank sugar cordials, but we were hardly ever overweight because we were always outside playing and although we shared one soft drink with four friends, no one ever actually died.

We did not have Play Stations, Nintendo 64, X-Boxes, 99 channels on cable, videos, surround sound, cell phones, personal computers, Internet chat rooms .. . . We had friends. We went outside and found them.

We rode bikes, roller skated, or walked to their homes and stood in front and yelled for them to come out to play, or knocked on the door, rang the bell or just walked in to visit them. Imagine such a thing. Without asking a parent! By ourselves! Out there in the cold cruel world! How did we do it?

We made up games with sticks and tennis balls and ate worms and although we were told it would happen, we did not put out very many eyes, nor did the worms live inside us forever.

Tests were not adjusted for any reason. Some students weren\'t as smart as others so they failed a grade and were held back to repeat it. And the next time they usually passed.

Our actions were our own. Consequences were expected and there was no one to hide behind. The idea of a parent bailing us out if we broke a law was unheard of. They actually sided with the law.

And despite ... or, perhaps, because of all this ... this generation has produced some of the most outstanding risk-takers, problem solvers, innovators and inventors, ever. The past 50 years have seen an explosion of advancement and new ideas. Why? Because we were given freedom and
responsibility. . . the chance to succeed and to fail. And we learned how to make the most of what we were given.

If you are one of us..... Congratulations! We Were Lucky, Weren\'t We?

\"I Can\'t Believe We Made It!\"

[belgareth]

Briela

You\'ve managed to highlight what is wrong with the world today and what was right in past days in one short post. Congratulations! I wish more people could understand and live by what you describe.

[druid]

well unfortunely I was a child of the BIG 80\'s. Well I had only 8-bit nintendo (still my all time fav though). And if you wanted to play four players you had to take turns 2 at a time!! thats right. And the game never worked right away. you had to blow into the bottom of the cartidge and finegal it inside the nintendo! thants right. And back then games only cost a nickel, but you didn\'t have a nickel, so you were stuck playing mario or duck hunt! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Briela]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
I wish more people could understand and live by what you describe.

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

I miss those days! It\'s beyond sad that todays generations will never know the simplicity, challenge and delight we were so fortunate to experience. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif

[Briela]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
And the game never worked right away. you had to blow into the bottom

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

Ohhhhh, so that\'s how you got your start! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif

[belgareth]

Some of my best memories of my early childhood are wandering the open hills with my friends and a dog. Take a cheese sandwich and a canteen of water for a day of exploring and adventure.

You talk about an 8 bit video game, have you ever built a crystal radio and listened to far away places without even a battery?

Want an exciting thrill ride? Try tying a big dog to your wagon then throw a stick for him to chase. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

I try to share it with my kids but so much of it is gone now. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif

[frenchie]

Great post, Briela ! I\'m proud to be a survivor...
I\'m a cartographer... imagine 15 years ago, when computers cost so much ! I had to draw maps with a good old China ink pen, spend hours over lighted tables, and start it all again if there was any mistake... that\'s why I wear glasses but anyway /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
I used to live in the desert, I know the price of a glass of water... I survived war (yes, yes... Algeria war, I was a kid and got shot), I wanted to throw stones to the police in may 68 (I was still a kid)... I would have loved to smoke illicit stuffs... oops ! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

Yep, we should be dead... but we\'re lucky and I feel we have this freedom of thought most younger people don\'t have now - too much uniformisation these days...

Frenchie /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[franki]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
I wish more people could understand and live by what you describe.

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

I miss those days! It\'s beyond sad that todays generations will never know the simplicity, challenge and delight we were so fortunate to experience. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

Well, funny enough, it is the generation of my parents and maybe also \"your\" generation who made most of these things (computers etc.) that spoil children/people nowadays ... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

[EXIT63]

Sometimes it just seems ridiculous doesn\'t it. My friends kids live across the street from a huge hill. Woods that go for miles. Do you think they ever go up there? Kids today want a ride to go 5 houses down the street. If it were me. I\'d be up there every day.

[frenchie]

\"Well, funny enough, it is the generation of my parents and maybe also \"your\" generation who made most of these things (computers etc.) that spoil children/people nowadays ...\"

Good point Franki... you\'re absolutely right ! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
There is a major problem today in the western world at least : uniformisation of thought, thoughts like : \"just be socially correct, politically correct, religiously correct, etc... if you want a seat for you in this society\". Those who demonstrated in the year 68 or so went back into the traditional social model and put their revolutionary ideas back into the closet.
All I wish to anyone is his/her freedom of thought, everyday in his life...

Someone wrote this (it was N.Kazantsakis) : \"I hope nothing, I fear nothing, I am free\"

Frenchie /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[belgareth]

Frenchie

You left out the biggest problem in western thinking/belief today; the lack of personal responsibility. You get fat, sue the fast food industry. Get sick from smoking, sue the tobacco industry. Get drunk and crash your car, sue the bartender. A criminal uses an illegal weapon, sue the gun manufacturer. We are told everyday that our own stupid actions are not our responsibility and we blame it on everybody but ourselves.

[tallmacky]

I am not riding the wave of this thread heheh. I doubt any generation truly has it better then one another it doesn\'t happen. Sure you guys did this and that outside or as you would say it \"explored\" I think thats great, but in the means of it all, so what? You may be a bit bias and think well what we did outside is more important then nowadays when I child is playing a video game, no its not. What else where you to do? Sit in your house and stare at the wall ? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif I am just saying you did what you could do with what you had provided. Every argument should not be one sided with the good and positive things you had at that time there were just as equally negative things, such as today.

I am sure the generation before you (IE your parents) would feel as you do now, they may say things to you like \"ahhh that\'s not music\" and so on. Any older generation always has a problem with what the children do and are like now, its also a bit of bias when one things his childhood was the best and only true way to be raised.

It\'s your generation who has created this fantastic technology, its the steve jobs, Bill Gates, sony etc... It must have been created for a reason but more importantly a want right? I am sure when I am 40-50 I will take a look at the current generation with dismay. The point being is everyone always thinks there is something wrong with a generation but there isn\'t its called change completely needed and natural.
----------------
Briela your post was fantastic I loved it, its true we have many problems when dealing with kids these days. Nothing gets me more angry then a little F*cking brat. Maybe because I group with with not much and knew respect (I am only 17) My friends little brother is what your poster boy for this generation should be. He is 12 he goes on his brothers computer and downloads alot of porno disrespects every single person, by grabbing their ass hitting them crying like a little baby when he doesn\'t get his way saying the rudest comments just all around a little spoiled jerk who is almost impossible to be around. I see the problem its him ofcourse but his parents who are fairly old let this kid run around hit them and do what he wants. Its not that I don\'t agree with what you said in your post its just I felt it was one sided and old problems are replaced with new ones when I think of the 40\'s 50\'s I think of alot of injustice and so on oh and war.

[EXIT63]

And when the Chinese communists start slaughtering our fatasses. We\'re gonna be in real trouble. Hmmm, we could just nuke the bastards. Oh yeah I forgot, we dismantled our nuclear weapons. (damn peaceniks) Oh well, Stick a skewer up my ass and jam an apple in my mouth. And cook me nice and slow. I\'ll go great on a bed of rice.

mmmmmmmmm blubber-icious

[Briela]

Tm, the post wasn\'t meant to imply that one generation is necessarily better than another, but just to make people think about the differences between then and now. You and Franki are absolutely right, the generations of the 40s-70s set the stage for the technology of today. The dicoveries and innovations created were meant to make our lives simpler... to give us more free time so that we could relax, enjoy life, have more time to spend with family and friends, basically on the things that make life worth living. Just the opposite has happened. Think of it, we\'re working harder, stressed more, and heaven forbid we see anyone. Individuals are more isolated than at any other point in history! In this brilliant age of technology and communication, we spend most of our time a slave to what we created rather than utilizing it to make our lives better. Shame on all of us (myself included, for here I sit typing this on a cold impersonal computer rather than using my hands to hug a child, caress a face, build a home).

The generations of the 40-70s are the Dr. Frankensteins of today. Look what we have wrought. Children spend all their time tethered to a machine, hitting buttons as fast as possible to try to \"annihilate\" electronic generated items from a screen... mindless, passive, apathetic. I don\'t blame the children, I blame the parents. They are the ones too wrapped up in their own lives to take accountability for their children. Ahhh, there\'s the word Belgareth posed.... it\'s a very powerful one, is it not? Belgareth that was a gem you laid down!

Tm you speak of \"brats\" but brats aren\'t born, they\'re raised. Children become brats due to the apathy of their parents, who would rather ignore the behavior than teach their children differences between right and wrong, the golden rules, accountability. Much of it has to do with \"acceptable\" practices of rearing young today. Kids in the 40-70s actually were punished for misdeeds, not reasoned with, not \"timed out\", not ignored. The punishment was enough to disuade us from ever wanting to do the misdeed again... it wasn\'t a \"beating\", we weren\'t \"abused\". I remember getting my mouth washed out with soap (boy do I remember!), but it didn\'t kill me, and it definitely dissuaded me from mouthing off again. What was standard punishment for our generations is now considered abuse. I don\'t profess or encourage violence as a punishment, but I also don\'t believe in trying to reason with a 2 year old! There is a middle ground, but it would take time and effort which many parents today are unwilling or unable to expend.

It scares me witless to think of the future, when these children raised in apathy become adults and have their own children.

[tallmacky]

ok Briela, good post.

[Briela]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Someone wrote this (it was N.Kazantsakis) : \"I hope nothing, I fear nothing, I am free\"

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

Great quote Frechie! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

[belgareth]

Thanks Briela:

You brought up another very good word-apathy. Most parents I see today are pitiful. They want to have kids then refuse to do anything with them. They don\'t help with homework, they don\'t provide any structure at home. They put the kids in front of the idiot box and tell them to be quiet. I attended back to school night a few months ago. It is an opportunity for parents to meet the teachers and find out what their kids will be doing. Less than 25% of the parents bothered to show up!

Parents refuse to discipline their kids and expect the schools to raise them. Then they tie the teachers\' hands by threatening and filing lawsuits when a student breaks the rules and is disciplined. If I had taken a weapon to school, the school would have rightfully punished me. Then my dad would have done ten times worse. Now, a kid flagrantly breaks the rules and the law,possibly injuring others, the school takes action according to the published rules and the parents raise a fit. It is teaching the kids that there are no consequences for their actions. What kind of monsters will they grow up to be?

To be fair, it is not entirely the parents\' fault. Spank your kid, they are encouraged to file abuse complaints for spanking. You\'ll spend months losing time from work dealing with chilod protective workers who seem to get their jollies threatening parents.

Sorry guys. This is one of my favorite rants. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif

[**DONOTDELETE**]

It\'s one of my favorite rants, too. I see it constantly, working with professionals. \"Having it all\" is about as selfish a concept as there ever was, as it applies to child raising, anyway. I\'ve worked for women attorneys who were artificially inseminated because they didn\'t have the time for a relationship, had their babies, were out six weeks, and came back to work doing 12 hour days so they could stay on the fast track. I can\'t understand it. It\'s like children are accessories. Everybody should have at least one. Who raises them? I dunno. Nannies, babysitters, whoever they can be foisted off on.
Don\'t get me started ...

[tallmacky]

So, what I am taking away of what you said FTR is that the current status of women working and being as competitive men has its down size. How and who is to raise the children if a man works (if he is around) and the women is very competitive and wants to achieve it all? What can these new age mothers do?

I don\'t think there is a huge problem here children will grow up and not become monsters, I am sure they thought this of the hippie generation also. I agree with all your post just not the over down outcome you are speaking off.

[belgareth]

tallmacky:

Kids do grow up in spite of or despite their parents. But beyond any argument, kids do learn many of their behavoirs, including nurturing, from their parents. When we have a child, we are making a long term commitment like no other to the health, well being and raising of that child. One or the other parent neeeds to be there for more than bath and bedtime for the kids. Children, especially young ones have tremendous emotional support needs that it is up to the parents to provide. Society cannot and will not provide it. If a person or couple is not willing to make and fulfill that kind of commitment, they should not have kids.

I am not saying that either parent should be at home full time, that is unrealistic. Besides, a child gets a lot out of the interaction with other children in day care. But one or two hours a day is not parenting either.

[Gerund]

I agree wholeheartedly.

The \"time\" issue really gets me. I see so many parents who would rather throw money at their kids to get them out from underfoot -- rather than give them some of their undivided attention on a regular basis. They either buy them toys for them to divert &amp; recreate with, or they hand them money if they older just to get them out of the house. And these same parents are confused years later, when the grown-up kids keep showing up asking for money -- hell, it\'s the only form of attention they ever got from their parents. I think you can safely predict that they\'ll continue to repeat the behavior all their lives.

And the \"quality time\" thing that evolved a few years ago to supposedly calm everyone\'s conscience. \"15 minutes is as good as 2 hours if it\'s QUALITY TIME.\" My ass. As a few have already said, \"don\'t get me started.\"

[tallmacky]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
tallmacky:

Kids do grow up in spite of or despite their parents. But beyond any argument, kids do learn many of their behavoirs, including nurturing, from their parents.

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

Then what happen, why is it to be presummed that your generation is lacking in giving love to children, was this a popular concept of the way the previous generation had grown up nope, maybe its just a natural motion?

If anyone observes they way some younger girls crave attention and go along it the totally wrong way IE lots s sex partners and dangerous behaviors, all you simply have to do in most cases is look at her childhood, where many are missing a father or a mother, so I agree with you and think you make great points mi amigo, I am just not sure if I would classify it as a huge problem.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

It is a huge problem. The literacy rate is down. Kids graduate from high school not being able to perform basic math skills and with NO notion of grammar or spelling and no ideas of etiquette. There are some basics that are the glue that holds society together, and they\'re being neglected. Kids are being neglected. Neglect is passive abuse.

It is not so much anymore that women are competitive with men. It\'s that they have to work because they need the money.

The problem is not that women work. It\'s that parents seem to think that they deserve to have children whether they have the time to raise them or not. The notion of \"quality time\" is bullshit, I agree with Gerund. Kids need to be read to, talked with, supervised, guided, and loved, and they need the security of a parent\'s presence in order to really thrive.

It\'s good that women can vote, be educated, and enter the professions if they want to. But the idea of \"having it all\" just means pushing your children off on caregivers most of their young lives. I think it\'s selfish and wrong.

[Gerund]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Neglect is passive abuse.

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

Hey, you phrased that well! Can I use that, or do you like have it copyrighted or something? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

[**DONOTDELETE**]

It\'s yours.

[Gerund]

Gracias~

[frenchie]

\"Women who seek to be equal with men lack ambition.\" - Timothy Leary

Briela, this one\'s not bad either ! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

I don\'t think we should feel nostalgic about a \'good\' past : every generation has its good points and bad points... and this is how evolution is (sigh).
One thing makes me sad : we are more and more disconnected with natural life, and more and more dependant on machines...
As to the lack of responsibility, this is right. I\'m really shocked by the fact that some dead smokers\' families sue the tobacco companies... when the (now dead) smoker had the choice to stop but didn\'t... some people choose to live by a river and then sue the house builder after a flood.

Hey, life is still beautiful, isn\'t it ? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Briela]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
It is a huge problem. Kids are being neglected. Neglect is passive abuse.

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

I agree with Gerund. Beautiful!

Tm, the progression from our generation to yours didn\'t happen ovenight. The \"passive abuse\" of children didn\'t just appear. It was something that evolved out of the need for both parents to work to make ends meet. This condition makes it even more important for parents to spend time with children than ever before. Another thing that is missing today is the extended family. There used to be brothers, sisters, aunts, uncles, etc., living in the same general area. They all helped and supported each other through thick and thin. Today, families are scattered all over the world. That support that used to be a given, is now something rare and precious.

It takes a village to raise a child... unfotunately today, the village has been razed and the child is left alone.

[tallmacky]

well our world has become smaller countries seem like states now, this is due to the job numbers and the interconnectedness of the current world. People do move alot I heard that last year 17% of the population had moved.

[MOBLEYC57]

\"It takes a village to raise a child... unfotunately today, the village has been razed and the child is left alone.\"

Manners &amp; respect...a dying breed. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif As the world turns! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif Pretty soon there will be no one left to run this world but..................BEBE\'s Kids!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif

[seadove]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
We did not have Play Stations, Nintendo 64, X-Boxes, 99 channels on cable, videos, surround sound, cell phones, personal computers, Internet chat rooms .. . . We had friends. We went outside and found them

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

I believe that one day in the future they will open \"group support\" meetings for addicted PC users (like me perhaps).

Then they will pass a law, outlawing the use of computers for personal pleasure, just like narcotics.They will sort out the soft use from the worse use, like using the \"word\" software as a soft drug and the internet as the hardcore stuff.

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

[Louis]

I think lack of money, is the reason for a lot of today\'s problems. People have too much credit for things they can\'t really afford. There is more credit than there is money to pay it back. A lot of today\'s families have to have both people working because they owe too much money, for only one to work. Schools teach very little on how to manage money, and even less on how to invest it. About the most you will get from school now, is how to apply for a job. While that is a good thing to know, more needs to be taught. A lot of people still believe that you show go out and get a good job, and you will be able to work there as long as you want. Today job security is becoming rare. While more and more things are available to be bought, very few are making the money to buy them, \"charge it\". So many people are mortgaging their future years so they can have a little bit now. Most schools and parents teach only the basics of money, and that is because they don\'t know much of it themselves. Just think if a family had a million dollars invested, earning a modest 10% interest paid out every year. Do you think they would have to work as hard as the family with no money saved and the same exact expenses. I don\'t know what all they answers are. I do know that if you have plenty of money to cover your day to day expenses you will generally have less stress than the person who doesn\'t. Also if a family has sufficient money, they wouldn\'t need to spend as much time working. Schools seriously need to start focusing on real life knowledge more, instead of primarily book knowledge. Knowing who fought in the war of 1812, and who shot who to start W.W.I, generally won\'t put food on the table. Having teachers that don\'t like the job they have anymore, doesn\'t help. I remember the few good teachers I had in school, and I also remember having a lot more that should have quit or been fired long before I ever made it to their classes. Don\'t think that the kids of the 40\'s, 50\'s, 60\'s and 70\'s get of the hook either. Many of them have been laid off, down sized, or for some other reasons lost jobs, so pensions no longer grew, or 401 k\'s had to be used to pay the bills while looking for another job. That will leave a lot of them with only social security, and that\'s if they can live long enough to get it after all the age extensions have been added till they can claim it, if it even exists by the time retirement age rolls around. I\'ve ranted too long. The point is, money is not evil, yet lack of it can cause many of the problems, many of us have.

[EXIT63]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
The \"passive abuse\" of children didn\'t just appear. It was something that evolved out of the need for both parents to work to make ends meet.

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

And why do both parents have to work?

Because you have to work 5 months out of the year to pay your taxes! That\'s why!

And why do we have to work 5 months to pay our taxes?

So we can have more government programs to help us because we\'re working 2 jobs and can\'t take care of our kids!

[Watcher]

I refuse to have any credit cards, i have a visa debit card, but that comes straight out of a savings account. Ive invested and am doing quite well, although some poeple have lost money recently. In my opinion credit is to be used absolutley as a last resort but there are plenty of companies willing to offer it very quickly to you and to take youre life away.

[druid]

I agree with a lot of people here who think all these new tech toys are ruining kids. I am a vicitm of that. I spent my first 8 years on this little blue orb in space growing up in Kentucky. I was born in 1980. I played outside mostly, and watched some cartoons. There were kids on my block whom I could play with. I had a pretty normal childhood then. Wasn\'t doing to well in school, but I think that was because of my parents gettin a divorce when I was 6. Then when I was 7 my mom moved to florida and remarried, and I moved with her when I was 8. All old people on my block, and it was the start of summer -- so makin friends at school had to wait 3 months. Well I got a 8 bit nintendo and stayed in the house almost exclusively. I became a real rolly polly kid with almost no social skills. I didn\'t start climb out of this until I was about 15. And I am still trying to get out of that hole at 23. DON\'T PARK YOUR KIDS IN FRONT OF A TV OR VIDEOGAME IF YOU GIVE A F_CK ABOUT THEM! If your too busy cut something else out of your life. Your kids need time with you AND social interaction with children their own age. And make sure their active and eating right, NOTHING IS WORSE THAN BEING A FAT KID. Especially when you start to notice the oppostite sex.

well louis I read your post and thought it was right on. I will go into what I think are some of the causes of lack of money -- or as I call it a degreding standard of living for americans (and other western countries).

I will sum of the cause of all these problems into 1 reason
1)Corporate Greed

Well the greedy corpations are on a magical endevour to cut cost to the absolute bare minium. And the most expensive cost in any business adventure is labor. Now it turns out that 3rd world countries have no min. wages, no working condition laws, and the goverments will make tax exceptions if you bring over some work. The first vicitims were manfacturing jobs, which were some of the best paying jobs, considering the skill level involved. Now, slowly but surely there are middle class jobs going also. Especially in the tech field. And if a job can\'t be sent to a 3rd world country then some of the 3rd world comes here. There is a visa program called the H1-B visa program. Well anyways this would not be such a problem if the goverments of these countries would encourge spending -- this would create a greater demand for american goods worldwide -- but they don\'t. In fact they encourage saving money -- not spending it. Some people will say that the jobs going overseas are low skilled low paying jobs but then why does microsoft have schools in india? they would love to cut the cost of R&amp;D in america. Enigneers, scientists, and programmers are EXPENSIVE.

[Lucky]

This is such a good thread. The only thing I would add is that I don\'t think it is fair to a generation to assume it will be any \"better or worse\" than another. We are all different and should be. Hopefully, families will see that a generation\'s good qualities will be passed on to the future. AND, *you young people listen to me on this* - if you are decent and want this world to be a better place, PROCREATE, and build a stronger more loving society by teaching your children.

By the way, mothers don\'t have to work...we can all do with a whole lot less. Start a trend. I mean it. Money gives you more choices, that\'s it. Those choices can cause lots of problems.

If I could do it all over again, I\'d have tons of children, not worry about how many I could afford or if the earth was overpopulated. It makes me sick to look at the demographics now and see who was reproducing when I wasn\'t and what those children believe to be conscionable.

[Elana]

Lucky- I wouldn\'t be telling most of the people on this forum to have kids. The thought of that sends shivers down my spine. Do you really want your children\'s children growing up with these freaks offspring? j/k /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[**DONOTDELETE**]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
This is such a good thread. The only thing I would add is that I don\'t think it is fair to a generation to assume it will be any \"better or worse\" than another. We are all different and should be. Hopefully, families will see that a generation\'s good qualities will be passed on to the future. AND, *you young people listen to me on this* - if you are decent and want this world to be a better place, PROCREATE, and build a stronger more loving society by teaching your children.

By the way, mothers don\'t have to work...we can all do with a whole lot less. Start a trend. I mean it. Money gives you more choices, that\'s it. Those choices can cause lots of problems.

If I could do it all over again, I\'d have tons of children, not worry about how many I could afford or if the earth was overpopulated. It makes me sick to look at the demographics now and see who was reproducing when I wasn\'t and what those children believe to be conscionable.

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Here\'s an alternative point of view. Have yourself sterilized, and if you want children, ADOPT. There are children all over the world starving and mistreated and available for adoption. It\'s not necessary to breed to make a difference via children. The planet\'s overpopulated as it is.

[tallmacky]

Good point FTR, That\'s why I get really pissed off when someone or some religious group has a problem with gay adoption, first off whether or not you believe this is the best enviroment for a child, its much better then being dirt poor, ignored, or killed, besides those who prostest it do not lift a finger to adopt or to help out in any way.

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Or what about those parents that for some reason cannot have a kid so they use a model or what they consider a perfect person, such as a genius, model, blonde who knows and trys to either buy their eggs or sperm? WTF haha imagine being born in dish.

It seems America and the rich suck so much resources to what matters to them, creating ultra brats.

[Elana]

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besides those who prostest it do not lift a finger to adopt or to help out in any way.


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That\'s the truth!

[belgareth]

Are you talking about the same morons who oppose birth control... for any reason?

[tallmacky]

oh yeah!