nonscents
04-04-2003, 05:50 AM
Bivonic has started multiple threads about various seduction techniques. Responses tend to be polarized along the lines of: “yeah this is an addition to my armamentarium,” or “just be your geniune authentic self and express your love and you will attract the prince(ss) of your dreams.”
As I’ve said elsewhere, I have not used any of these techniques. But I feel I have a duty to myself to educate myself as to the nature of these techniques if only to protect myself against those who might wish to manipulate me with them.
My concern in this thread is the use of sub- or preconscious techniques to manipulate others. Things like embedded commands “FEEL THE hapPENIS INSIDE”, the use of anchors, the self-pointing, trance induction, etc. I would like, in this thread, to abstract from the moral considerations. I think the moral considerations are very important. We once had what I thought was a fascinating thread on the moral implications of phermone use. It was a discussion that needs to be reviewed more often. But with these preconscious techniques I would first like to hear the “hit reports” so that we can gather data to find if they have any efficacy.
I am surprised that so many are so quick to write these techniques off. They seem to have much in common with phermones. Most of us who use pheromones use them stealthily. We feel that they have the effect of attracting people to us, without the targets knowing why they are attracted to us. We use them precisely because the pheromones have a preconscious effect.
If I use every opportunity to take my shirt off outside so that women can see my ripped abs, and I notice that this gets me a lot of attention from attractive women, I assume that women consciously chose to express their attraction to me because they were self-aware enough to recognize that I had ripped abs and they knew of themselves that they like ripped abs. Their thought process is: \"1. ns is a man with ripped abs, 2. I like men with ripped abs, therefore 3. I like ns.\" If you asked a woman I attracted what she sees in me, she would answer, “Ripped abs!!!”
With mones it is typically not the case that targets say I am attracted to ns because he smells good. The reports I read suggest that targets feel there is an I-don’t-know-what about the mone user that attracts them. So it is preconscious.
By the very nature of this venue, forum participants are comfortable influencing others preconsciously. Shouldn’t we all engage in a little systematic inquiry to understand other methods of preconscious influence? If they are all a bunch of hooey, good for us for finding out. And if they can be used effectively, good for us for finding out.
I remember reading once about a class that was told to smile and nod every time the instructor moved to the left, and stare sternly when she moved to the right. By the end of the class the instructor was teaching from far in the left corner. Behaviorism doesn’t tell us everything that is important about human behavior, but it has its moments. You can say it’s just common sense and that people have been rewarding and punishing others as long as there have been people. But it took Watson and Skinner and others to develop the theory. I am glad I know when others are trying to manipulate me with behaviorist methods.
Do preconscious methods work? Inquiring minds want to know. Has anyone used these methods? If not, let’s start trying them out in trivial ways. Don’t use them to get laid at first, but maybe we could start by doing things analagous to the students who got the instructor stuck in the corner. Can we consciously set a goal of, for example, getting someone to touch their ear? I don’t know. But if mirroring works can we pace and then lead someone to touch their ear? Obviously we’d also have to track how many people touch their ear when they are not led to do so. But if we put our minds to it we could come up with a protocol. We all try it for a week. Then come back an report our results.
Clearly ear touching is a trivial behavior. But so is hair flipping. Let\'s establish whether this stuff works or not. If we can establish that it works, we can then determine our moral beliefs with regard to its use and the other ends to which it could be used.
As I’ve said elsewhere, I have not used any of these techniques. But I feel I have a duty to myself to educate myself as to the nature of these techniques if only to protect myself against those who might wish to manipulate me with them.
My concern in this thread is the use of sub- or preconscious techniques to manipulate others. Things like embedded commands “FEEL THE hapPENIS INSIDE”, the use of anchors, the self-pointing, trance induction, etc. I would like, in this thread, to abstract from the moral considerations. I think the moral considerations are very important. We once had what I thought was a fascinating thread on the moral implications of phermone use. It was a discussion that needs to be reviewed more often. But with these preconscious techniques I would first like to hear the “hit reports” so that we can gather data to find if they have any efficacy.
I am surprised that so many are so quick to write these techniques off. They seem to have much in common with phermones. Most of us who use pheromones use them stealthily. We feel that they have the effect of attracting people to us, without the targets knowing why they are attracted to us. We use them precisely because the pheromones have a preconscious effect.
If I use every opportunity to take my shirt off outside so that women can see my ripped abs, and I notice that this gets me a lot of attention from attractive women, I assume that women consciously chose to express their attraction to me because they were self-aware enough to recognize that I had ripped abs and they knew of themselves that they like ripped abs. Their thought process is: \"1. ns is a man with ripped abs, 2. I like men with ripped abs, therefore 3. I like ns.\" If you asked a woman I attracted what she sees in me, she would answer, “Ripped abs!!!”
With mones it is typically not the case that targets say I am attracted to ns because he smells good. The reports I read suggest that targets feel there is an I-don’t-know-what about the mone user that attracts them. So it is preconscious.
By the very nature of this venue, forum participants are comfortable influencing others preconsciously. Shouldn’t we all engage in a little systematic inquiry to understand other methods of preconscious influence? If they are all a bunch of hooey, good for us for finding out. And if they can be used effectively, good for us for finding out.
I remember reading once about a class that was told to smile and nod every time the instructor moved to the left, and stare sternly when she moved to the right. By the end of the class the instructor was teaching from far in the left corner. Behaviorism doesn’t tell us everything that is important about human behavior, but it has its moments. You can say it’s just common sense and that people have been rewarding and punishing others as long as there have been people. But it took Watson and Skinner and others to develop the theory. I am glad I know when others are trying to manipulate me with behaviorist methods.
Do preconscious methods work? Inquiring minds want to know. Has anyone used these methods? If not, let’s start trying them out in trivial ways. Don’t use them to get laid at first, but maybe we could start by doing things analagous to the students who got the instructor stuck in the corner. Can we consciously set a goal of, for example, getting someone to touch their ear? I don’t know. But if mirroring works can we pace and then lead someone to touch their ear? Obviously we’d also have to track how many people touch their ear when they are not led to do so. But if we put our minds to it we could come up with a protocol. We all try it for a week. Then come back an report our results.
Clearly ear touching is a trivial behavior. But so is hair flipping. Let\'s establish whether this stuff works or not. If we can establish that it works, we can then determine our moral beliefs with regard to its use and the other ends to which it could be used.