Being Without Pheromones Sucks!

[Phantom]

I decided to try a day without mone\'s for the heck of it just to see if I could get the same results without using pheromones.
I was bored anyway so I though dropping by my girlfriends place would be fun so I took a shower, did a few sets of pushups and sprayed some drakkar to cover my natural phero signature (I don\'t get a bad BO smell when I sweat it smells more like caramel candy)

While I was walking to her place I got a few DIHL\'s (I\'m fairly good looking naturaly) I usually get them when walking to her place but they were\'nt as intense and like high Anone products (TE, Rogue Male, Andro 4.2) I dropped buy the grocery store to get some condoms (I called her before hand and she informed me no one will be there but me and her so I thought it would be a good opportunity to get laid /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif )

I knock on her door she opens up and she gives me a big hug and tells me I smell really nice (she had to run out of the shower to get the door, she was soaking wet rapped in a pink towel) she tells me to come to her room, I go in sit on her bed and she tells me to wait since she has to get dressed. She unraps the towel from her body and dry\'s her self off (every mans dream) after she\'s dry she points out how she shaved her..... and asked me if it looked good, I said hell yea! /ubbthreads/images/icons/shocked.gif

While she was getting dressed (took like 20 minutes since she needed to blow dry her hair and do all that girly stuff) I went to her coach in the living room to watch some tv. When she was done she looked really sexy (she smelled really good too /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif) then she sat next to me (the plan for today was to chill at her house for a while then meet with her friends and have a night on the town) we struck up some conversation but we could\'nt keep ourselves entertained (there was nothing to watch on tv) Luckly I had a backup plan (a week ago I bought a empty 10ml glass bottle with a cap (looks just like a empty rogue male bottle) and I filled it with unscented TE) So I told her I had to use the bathroom so I went in, took off my shirt and applyed 5 dabs on my chest, armpits and arms (they were the same places I sprayed the drakkar)

I came back and sat next to her a few seconds after she put her head on my shoulder and put her arm around mines, then she said \"I know something we can watch\" she took the control and flipped to the spice channel. I saw that she was getting hot sexually (her nipples were erect) so I took my hand and started fondling her breasts. She started to like it so she jumped on my lap and.... well lets just say explaining what happened after would be giving too much information...

So we ended up canceling our plans to go out and had some fun of our own /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif............ so the moral of this story is, nothing gets done without using pheromones... life without out them really sucks!

[Elana]

You really think the situation would have ended differently had you not put on mones? /ubbthreads/images/icons/crazy.gif I guarantee you would have \"closed the deal\" with your own girlfriend with or without mones/ubbthreads/images/icons/laugh.gif

[Phantom]

They sure made it a much more enjoyable experience (she put my pleasure in front of hers) /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif She did\'nt want to stop either (we went on for hours and she still wanted more) we enventually had to stop since I got hungry and we ran out of condoms and after she told me that was the best sex she ever had! /ubbthreads/images/icons/laugh.gif

[cuddlebear]

When I first read the title of this thread, I was actually feeling sorry for you because I thought you had run out of mones and you didn\'t have the money or something ... I was going to be nice and PM you for your address so I could send you some ... doesn\'t look like you need me, though ... /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Um ... I could send you my address ...

[Phantom]

lol, FTR don\'t exploit his kindness /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif, luckly I have a partime job and I can support my Phero habit /ubbthreads/images/icons/laugh.gif

[cuddlebear]

Hey, Reds, if you do that, I might just come over! /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif

[Elana]

Cuddlebear...you are WAY too predictable /ubbthreads/images/icons/laugh.gif

[bjf]

damn cuddle bear, you are nice!

as for phantom, nothing sucks, except your girlfriend, and i mean that in the oral way. You were getting freaky for hours last night for heaven sakes, things can\'t be too bad.

Are you worried that your girlfriend\'s passion for you isn\'t really all for you, but more due to the mones......not to say that she ins\'t into you for you, but in terms of whether or not you can really get her into wild women mode wihtout mones?

[Phantom]

Actually I have no Idea what would happen if I would stop using pheromones for a week or even a month, well before I was ever using pheromones girls would just label me as a friend and nothing would come out of those relationships so I think that they\'ve done a good job.

She\'s caught me off gaurd sometimes and just dropped by to hang out at my place, it really takes a long time and lots of trouble just to get her in the mood without using any pheromones and the best i\'ve got out of it was lots of kissing and heavy petting but no sex. /ubbthreads/images/icons/frown.gif

[bjf]

damn man. I guess she has a low libido and phermones helps her. But i think it is possible to get addicted to phermones because the thought of not having them on you when u can is not fun. Maybe your natural signature becomes a let down to her when compared to the boosted amount of mones you get when wearing them.

I think i no longer like the thought of going with out mones. But is wierd, because i actually did better w/o mones. I have been using for two months. I have gotten the DIHLs, but that is it. Before I did better. I don\'t know if they have changed my behavior and/or how women react to me. I just can\'t justtify to myself though that they can be a neg, so i continue to use them, especially with the dihls i have gotten which I like getting.

[Elana]

Maybe you just don\'t know how to take a hint. If your girlfriend was standing in front of you showing you her new shaved job, don\'t you think that was a blatant signal for you to take her right there and then? /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif

[Phantom]

When I tried to touch she slapped my hand and said no touching /ubbthreads/images/icons/frown.gif bjf the thought of having a substance like mones that is proven to attract people might of just made you more laid back just waiting for the girls to flock over.... Maybe before you were more aggresive and girls like that so they went for you? who knows....

[bivonic]

What did you try to touch? Don\'t go for the brass ring right away, you should have said \"my eye sight is not too good\", got down on your knees & say, \"let me see if I can get a closer look\" & then put your hands down by her ankles & give her a nice little calf massage, then when her knees become weak move in for the kill, I think you know what to do next /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif

[MadDoctor]

I\'m very comfortable with the conclusion that pheromones make sex better, regardless of whether or not they make it more frequent for a given wearer.

That was what I was really after in getting involved with pheromones anyway. I was already getting as much quantity as I could manage, but there are no limits on quality. I would buy them for that reason alone.

[Phantom]

There should be books, manuals whatever for better sex the ones i\'ve found you have to pay outrageous amounts for.

[tallmacky]

hours? thats pretty extensive I can last a full minute then its all downhill , did you get your girl after you started wearing pheromones?

[Phantom]

yea that\'s what I think attracted her to me.

[tallmacky]

hmmm Phantom I totally agree with you, wearing mones makes my day better either I feel stronger more confident (none) or am more able to deal with people easier and better (nol). I don\'t mind having flings with girls partially due to the mones, I am not sure if I would marry someone partially due to the mones think trying to stop then. Though mones were a key to connect you to her after time and placement she will grow on you like hair on my ass.

By the way does she know you wear mones I take it no right, even if you told her I doubt she would have much interest in it.

[Phantom]

If I told her she would probably not belive me wondering how and invisible substance makes you attracted to someone else so I don\'t even bother.

[Elana]

Tallmacky- If you are serious about being a minute man, you need to seriously work on that. Have you ever tried products that desensitize your penis. I used to sell products for that purpose in the sex store I used to manage. This was a popular item...

http://whispers.theshoppe.com/kama_sutra_pleasure_balm_1.html (\"http://whispers.theshoppe.com/kama_sutra_pleasure_balm_1.html\")

[tallmacky]

understandable explaining alone would get you nowhere, for me I am not sure if I could keep a secret even a whitelie.

After you put on the TE and you were pretty close to her did she complain or hint to the smell or just overall something different about you?

Elana thats true I really can\'t last that long its quite pathetic I mean when it comes to penis size I am the man but I work it like a grumpy toddler. I will check that link thanks

[bjf]

search on kazza for better sex guides.

[tallmacky]

maybe I will just buy a rubberband?

[Phantom]

Desensitize your penis sounds scary and unpleasurable, I take Tribulus, DHEA, Maca and Horny Goat Weed for body building and all that testosterone flowing through my body makes me a sex animal, I can go for hours even without cumming once.

[bjf]

it sounds like that stuff delays your ejaculation then??

[Elana]

<<Desensitize your penis sounds scary and unpleasurable,>>

Let\'s think about the lady for a second. One minute sex is terribly frustrating. The balm wears off during sex and you will feel the full pleasure in the end. You can get it on ebay. Another FANTASTIC product from the Kama Sutra line is the Oil of Love.

[franki]

Do it for yourself, Tallmacky. Your own orgasm will be more intense the longer you can hold it back.

Franki /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif

[Phantom]

Yea I feel sorry for the guy, if he has a small penis that can make it even worse, Bruce\'s stuff works too (http://www.love-scent.com/delightfully-intimate/index.html) that sh!t kept my german sausage hard so long it gave me blue balls.

<Another FANTASTIC product from the Kama Sutra line is the Oil of Love> mmm.... sounds delicious, I saw it on ebay for cheap so I guess i\'ll get it.

[Thanatos]

I think Kegel exercises may do you some good to. Start off squeezing that PC muscle (like you would when you stop the flow of urine) for 5 sets fo 10 reps each and build your way up to doing 1000 reps a day total.
Some of the different PC exercises:
- Flutters: clench/release the PC muscle rapidly
- Pushouts: Slowly clench and \"pushout\" (like squeezing a loaf)
Holding it: As slow as you can, clench your PC muscle to its max while concentrating on slow breathing and then as slow as you can relax. You should get quite a nice sensation from this eventually.

These methods really help with ejaculation and erection control. As soon as you get that feeling that you are gonna blow your wad clench up as hard as you can (maybe squeeze the head to get some of the blood out, dont do this to trap your semen in tho.). In time, you can learn to ride the wave for an extremely long time before ejaculating.

[MadDoctor]

I wish something as simple as high T could guarantee that a guy lasts a long time, but there\'s no way I think that\'s responsible. For example, although no 40 year old is good for 5 times a day anymore, how many 16 year olds can keep going for over half an hour? A 40 year old\'s T levels are lower than a 16 year old\'s, so I think there have to be other explanations.

Some things to consider:
1) More foreplay. It won\'t be such a big deal how long you last if she\'s already had plenty of fun.
2) A much more laid-back approach. Try getting yourselves all positioned and (*ahem*) comfortable, and then just hang out. Move only as much as is necessary to keep your chubby going. You can maintain a nice degree of pressure on the places where she wants it, and make a whole afternoon or evening of it if you like. Good in a sitting position if you are going for the long haul (most positions get tiresome after much more than 20-30 minutes). Can you think of a nicer way to spend an hour? Beats hell out of watching TV if you ask me. /ubbthreads/images/icons/laugh.gif

[Phantom]

-bjf- I searched kazaa for better sex guides and it found nothing /ubbthreads/images/icons/frown.gif

-tallmacky- <maybe I will just buy a rubberband?>
I don\'t reccomed using a c*ck ring, them sh!ts can really cause damage to your \"unit\" you may not even be able to get it up again bacause of the damage to the bloodvessles.

[MadDoctor]

Women also appreciate it when you do your kegel workout as a... umm... collaborative effort. It\'d be worth working on for that reason alone. You know you like it when she does it, return the favor!

[Phantom]

I do a kegel workout every day, 5 sets of 100 short squeezes and 1 set of 50 5 second squezzes... note you have to work up to this level, when I started I only did 2 sets of 50 short squeezes a day and worked myself up.

[tallmacky]

Thanks guys read all of your posts, great advice to say the least. The kegals sound really cool never really gave much thought to that. I will look it up more online and start trying that very cool stuff.

Phantom lasting for an hour holy crapoly.

Phantom
\"Bruce\'s stuff works too (http://www.love-scent.com/delightfully-intimate/index.html) that sh!t kept my german sausage hard so long it gave me blue balls.\"

I have some of that stuff I got with an order awhile back I never tried it, I think I will give it a test, I just don\'t like big pills and thought it wasn\'t anything worth bothering with.

p.s. kidding about the rubberband, wow this thread took a change sorry about that phantom.

[bjf]

they got condoms or spray or gel that de-senstize your penis. If you get joy out of pleasing your woman, then whats the big deal. I think durex may have a thing with some of the gel already at the head of the condom

[Phantom]

<p.s. kidding about the rubberband, wow this thread took a change sorry about that phantom.> don\'t worry about it, a forum is meant for discussion no biggie /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif.... -bjf- Actually Durex was the condom of choice for that encounter, but it was a normal lubricated condom.

[bjf]

phantom - search \'documents\" then use keywords like \"how to\" \"ebook\" \"pdf\"

you can even get kama sutra stuff, they got how to eat pssy, the idiot\'s guide to sex, some others. You can tell your girl that you have these things and you want to try them out together with her, and perhaps she will see it as you trying to please her more and be more into sex. plus it is interesting

[bjf]

yea, it is a special type of condom. i forgot what they call them but just search on google

[MadDoctor]

Specific searches might be rewarding too, e.g. \"tantric sex\" or \"female ejaculation\" or whatever, rather than expecting everything to be in one place.

[Phantom]

I just went out to Rite Aid and got a Calcium supplement since I ran out of it a few days ago.... before I went out I sprayed 1 spray of andro 4.2 under each armpit and sprayed a few sprays of Drakkar Noir as cover, put on shirt and sweater (pretty cold outside) and went out, I got alot of DIHL\'s from Girls and older Women. When I got there I saw a few cuties from the beauty supply section looking at my direction /ubbthreads/images/icons/cool.gif I gave them a sexy look and went on to the supplement section.

While I was looking for the right calcium bottle, another cutie came by and asked me where were the multi vitamins (they were right in front of her, but I guess she did\'nt notice) and I pointed them out to her, she said thanks then asked me what my name was, I told her, then asked the same back. Her name was Denise, she was really cute like a 9 she was exactly my type.... I found the right calcium supplement so I bent over to get it (it was on the bottom rack) then wam! she smacked my ass, when I got up she told me I have a really nice ass. We chatted a little and she gave me her number. Since we both found what we wanted we both went to the counter and paid for out stuff. Then we walked out the door but before I left she gave me a hug, a kiss on the cheek, grabbed my ass again then left.

But thats not it when I was walking home I met an old friend, he could\'nt stop talking, he gave me his number, his cell number and his email address, he said that there might be an empty position at his job that I would be able to fill (he\'s a high paid computer technician) I guess I was really lucky today since I only went out to by some vitamins.

[marv14yag]

Hey, I do. I like the results better. Althogh there as less, they are better. Because they are your own pheromones.

However, I have been upping them, by working out, and taking DHEA.

You know, the FIRS THING, he said, was that he did some pushups before he went over.

Dude, lol...

You should SEE THE DIFFERENCE.

I\'ll do a set of 25 pushups before I head to the bus, v.s. not doing them, it\'s a big difference. I\'m doing 100 a day now, was doing more, I need the endurance, however, after a point, more doens\'t matter. Which, like, if you want cardiovascular, cool. Run like a mile or something a day, but more will do nothimng but burn more muscle. Once the body has adapted it helps nothing but burn calories, and because it has adapted it doens\'t even do that very well (well, better than just sitting there.)

Anyway, I have had the BEST RESULTS in gym class. Mostly because I get sweaty.

I just got some new gym closes...Tight wife beater, and I got a new shirt, one of them wife beater looking ones.

I\'m going to combine that with weightlifting (I already get looks when I lift. Just the other day, some girl was commenting on how she doens\'t know how I can do situps (on the decline thing) with a 45#...I use 2 of them at once, but, I have big hip flexors...Don\'t usually though, because ijt make sthe stomach bigger, however my bench does go up (because, when you get into lifting over like 205# you aren\'t using the main msucles anymore, and you have to use the lats, and the lower back, that\'s why, if you\'re going to build muscle, it\'s not ALWAYS needed to lift alot, but use a lot but with really good form, etc)...

I\'ll see how that goes, for some reason right now, my natural phero levels are up. I can tell, due to confidence, and etc. I think that getting a few new cltohes actually gives you confidence that increases pheromone levels, etc. You know the saying, confidence radiates, is attractive, etc. It is true, lol.

Anyway...

Whoever said that they were giving out mones...

My email is my marv14yag@aol.com....E-mail (\"marv14yag@aol.com....E-mail\") me, hell I\'ll take them...

I\'d like of that SOE, I haven\'t tried that....

But, all I got right now is some PPA bottles and some none from the kit. I need A1 actually, to calm these girsl down (conteract high none signature while still getting effects of none...Similar to Rone reactions....I got fired, I have no job...Need money for more pheromnes...

Bart

[marv14yag]

Oh my God....FINALLY someone is realizing that?!

ESPECIALLY NONE!

Now, if a girl is horny, it WILL get you more sex...However, if you\'ve ever come into contact with a horny girl, it an\'t going to really matter, and again, if they are horny, you won\'t need pheromones. And, although pheromones will have them enjoy it more, it will not change the amount of pleasure they receive...At least not directly, anymore (more bloodflow = more stretched = more senstive.) Same thing for a dude. That\'s why Viagra increases sensitivity as well.

Bart

[tallmacky]

Bart
\"Anyway, I have had the BEST RESULTS in gym class. Mostly because I get sweaty.\"

Very true in gym class there is the boys class and the girls some of the time we may share the same gym and when I get sweating and I can feel the heat coming off of me and with my own phero signature and the TE/SOE I get some pretty intense stares from the girls even at a far distance. it works really well in the enviroment

[marv14yag]

You know...Although, even if she really DOESN\'T want you to touch...Tryingn, showed you wanted to.

Even if a girl REALLY DOESN\'T want you to touch them....Do it anyway, it will show you as alpha male, and you will get laid faster.

So, yeah, they don\'t, or they really do, and are just telling you they don\'t, either way, go ahead and try, just don\'t rape them....Or malest...whatever

Bart

[Watcher]

And if in doubt spend some time with the female in question and wait for some sort of verbal confirmation from her she wants sex and if it isnt forthcoming then leave it as friends and go find some girl who will be interested in having sex with u. This advice will self destruct in 10 seconds and applies to anyone reading it who may have an interest.

[camusflage]

Give the kegels a shot.. I used to be REALLY bad, like even less than a minute. I became skilled in oral and other ways that compensated, but not completely. Once I got with the program and learned kegel exercises, I\'ve become a pretty decent lover. I can last as long as I need to. Usually, she\'ll say that she wants me to cum, stop holding back, or whatever. I take that as my cue to finally let go. Fortunately though, even though I\'m knocking on thirty\'s door, I still have the recovery time I had back in the day (ie, zero). Just a couple weeks ago, I came some 14 times in 24 hours.

Just as a side-note, to the ladies following this discussion.. What is it about FABULOUS sex that makes you cry? I\'ve had probably about a dozen such experiences in my life where my partner has started crying after a particularly good roll in the hay, usually consisting of six or seven orgasms in quick succession. Is it an emotional, physical, or mixed response? Any insight y\'all can provide to us clueless guys?

[**DONOTDELETE**]

LOL

Simple gratitude. The quest is long and hard. To finally find a guy who can make you come ... puts tears in your eyes sometimes.

[bjf]

damn phantom. it is hard to believe that girls just viewed you as a friend before mones. To get the reactions that you are with mones leads me to believe you must be like a 9 or 10 looks wise. Girls don\'t want to just be friends with 9s or 10s

[bundyburger]

<<Girls don\'t want to just be friends with 9s or 10s >>

You\'d be surprised. We\'re talking about females here.

[Phantom]

Girls who were 9s or 10s did.

[bjf]

yea, there are exceptions for the doormat type, but the guy doesn\'t sound like a pushover type though.

[Phantom]

I always used to get the 7s or 8s not the 9s or 10s like I wanted.

[bjf]

so are you saying you\'d rate yourself a 7.5 too?

[Phantom]

I\'d say i\'m like a 9 or a 10, but being a 9 or 10 does\'nt mean you going to get 9\'s and 10\'s.

[bjf]

yea, i knew it .... 9 or 10 /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif. I don\'t know why you weren\'t getting your counterparts then???

[tallmacky]

Its amazing how some really great looking woman go out with some very very ugly guys. My friend was the best looking guy in school but that didn\'t matter at all he got nothing at all until now but woman don\'t take to him woman want more of assurance on their investment, it was always the short/ugly/wannabe bad ass kid that got all the preteen putang. I always considered myself pretty damn good looking I have had modest success but I am an excessive slacker to a fault Very very shy. I remember I had this one girl after for me for about 2 1/2 years from when I was like 11 to 14 or 14 she was around a 9 to really good looking, but I was so shy or something she would try to grab me or touch me all the time (pretty nice at that age) and I would act so tough or like hahah yeah right get away from me what a mistake I could have banged a girl when I was 11 to 15 at will hahah. So relationships for me don\'t last very long just hit it and quit it.

P.S. I think we need to get a consenus on what a 1 is a 5 a 8 an so on is I think I will get some pictures together of females and ask people on the forum to rate them. sounds pretty interesting

[bjf]

i don\'t think that any woman targets any type of looks range. as long as you are together visually. But i am sure so much has to do with how they relate with the women socially. And then, when we see an ugly guy with a hot girl, we notice it. WHen we see ttwo good looking people together, we see it as natural, not out of the ordinary. That\'s why it seems like ugly guys are getting hot women more than they are. You always notice the exception more than the norm.

[tallmacky]

Very true,

On the average those considered beautiful (majority wise) usually have overall more desirable genetics, so it seems a bit out of it when someone dates \"down\" I guess you could say.

bjf your post also reminds me of what I heard, that when it comes to men if one man finds a woman beautiful generally most of the men also find her beautiful. When it comes to woman it can vary widely one woman may think some guy is perfect and many others may disagree with varying degree. Maybe some of the female forum members can comment on this one. FTR let me hear you roar

[**DONOTDELETE**]

About what? Guys are way more concerned about looks than women are. Guys are way more conventional in their standards of beauty than women are. Women are more tolerant of individual differences and we want more than looks. Watcher will chime in and say, yeah, money. For some women, maybe. For me, it\'s brains and sexual peformance. For another woman, it could be sense of humor. Generally, we will look past a good bit of physical imperfection if the guy clicks with us in the way we want him to click. Many men date or approach only women that *their friends* will consider the right number or range on the looks scale because they are too insecure about their own worth to consider a woman for who she is, given acceptable (not extraordinary) looks. The more the guy is focused on the high end of the range to the exclusion of all else, the more insecure he generally is about his own worth, is my experience.I also observe that men tend to overrate their own looks. Which is kind of amusing to me. Since you can be as pretty a boy as you please, but if you\'re a jerk, you still ain\'t gettin\' any. Or it will be a case of hit it and quit it, no repeat performances. The other thing I observe about men who are stuck on \"she\'s got to be this number or that number\" is that it keeps them safe from having to interact with women. It makes it easy for a guy to eliminate the majority of the female population (most folks mostly being about average) on the grounds that they\'re just not good looking enough for him. If nobody\'s good enough, he\'s spared any performance pressure with regard to not only sex, but intimacy and relationship. Ok, your turn to roar. /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif

[tallmacky]

MEOW, I don\'t I think I have a comeback from such an excellent performance, you got me on this part.

\"The other thing I observe about men who are stuck on \"she\'s got to be this number or that number\" is that it keeps them safe from having to interact with women. It makes it easy for a guy to eliminate the majority of the female population (most folks mostly being about average) on the grounds that they\'re just not good looking enough for him. If nobody\'s good enough, he\'s spared any performance pressure with regard to not only sex, but intimacy and relationship. Ok, your turn to roar. \"

[bjf]

don\'t forget, a big component of attraction for men is looks. so to be inspired to want someone, i think a women usually has to be \"good looking\" to men. I don\'t think that is a nice thing, i think it is unfair to women, but unfortunately it is the truth. There are a lot of ways that women operate that aren\'t nice things, unfair to men, but the turth is, while all this maybe kinda cruel, it occurs it has an evolutionary foundation. Evolution does not move as fast as society, so there are things that are out of date, but then there are things that we look for that are for our own good.

I have seen some god awful stufff about how women\'s fertality functions with regard to male competition on these Discovery channel shows. It is stuff that I am sure women would think is cruel to their mates, but it is just something that evolution has driven them to do.

There\'s plent of attraction traits women look for that discriminates against me when they are poor indications of the truth. I don\'t like it, but I accept and understand why those traits of attraction are there, and I shouldn\'t be hurt by that.

As for what you said about guys overating there looks -- guys do this constantly. women usually under-rate themselves. I am not just saying this out of my own experience but out of the studies which consistently show this. It is funny, but it is so consistent with the machismo men can have and the insecurities that women can have. As for putting numbers, that is just an indication of how attracted someone is relative to the rest of competition in that population. I really don\'t buy your argument about using it as a excuse to exclude women and therefore not have to step up to the plate.

I would love to be able to look through a women\'s eyes for a day so i could better understand some of the processes of thinking that I don\'t like.

I am sure if you spent a day looking through a man\'s eyes, you would better understand some of the though processes that you do not like. Hell, I don\'t like a lot of them, but it is just the where nature has brought men, so I try not to have the internal struggle and accept it as okay.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

I spend most of my time studying the way men think about women. I believe I may be one of the most savvy women you\'ll ever talk to (one of) in that regard. I didn\'t write with any heat in my last post. I don\'t feel any of it is cruel. It amuses me, if anything, how easily men are manipulated be female beauty. There are many ironies inherent in the male/female situation. This is but one of the many. It\'s not a thing to get upset about. It\'s a thing to understand as well as your own proclivities and prejudices will allow you, and then to use that knowledge to maximize your chances for happiness..


To be very truthful with you, and I intend no insult: men are simple compared to women. The things you mostly want are easily provided, and your needs are easy to understand.


The hard part of the equation is the woman. It fascinates me to read the men\'s posts and then talk to the other women to see if they picked up the same things I did. A recent example (and Phantom, I\'m in no way picking on you) - a woman greets a man still wet from her shower and in the course of getting dressed asks him to admire her pussy. CUE. MAKE LOVE TO ME. Completely missed cue. He waits until she\'s completely ready to go out and then tries to visit with her, but they can\'t entertain each other. So she tries the next cue: put on a dirty movie. AH. Now he gets it and they have sex, and it\'s great sex. Why is it great sex? Because she was in the mood for it. She initiated it, three times. By greeting him at the door wet from the shower, cue 1. By asking him to admire her pussy, cue 2. No result, seque to visuals, which never fail to inspire, dirty movie, cue 3. /ubbthreads/images/icons/laugh.gif /ubbthreads/images/icons/laugh.gif /ubbthreads/images/icons/laugh.gif /ubbthreads/images/icons/laugh.gif Who\'s leading whom? Alpha which?


Women understand each other really well and most of us understand men pretty well. Conversely, men don\'t seem to understand much about women, no matter how hard they try.


So while a woman with average looks might have to expend more effort to make herself attractive to a man, once that is accomplished (which is not difficult, even for an average looking woman - a 5 can easily transform herself to a 7, for example, with judicious application of makeup, hair style, and flattering/revealing clothes), her chances of attracting and then understanding and therefore keeping her man are better than the man\'s chances, because the man has the harder task. He can\'t even figure out what we want to begin with, since it isn\'t all about externals, even initially.

Women have it easier in this game than men do.


I\'m a 6.5 - 7 and consistently throughout my life have been with men at at least 8 and often higher. This rating thing does not present too great an obstacle for any woman to overcome if she knows how to dress and how to conduct herself.


bjf, observe carefully the guys who overrate their own looks and by doing so, overrate the kinds of women who they believe are worthy of their attention, and take careful note about whether they are achieving sex on a regular basis, or even better, a steady girlfriend with whom they\'re sexually satisfied and emotionally comfortable. The average looking guys going for the industry standard model or near model woman has about a snowball\'s chance in hell. He\'s set himself up to fail. I never hear about these guys\' successes above a brief exchange of flirtation. Until he can gear down a notch, it\'s likely those guys remain bachelors or swingers, different girl every week if they\'re actually scoring, but the women don\'t hang around long, usually.

[MadDoctor]

Great post, FTR.

But I know when you said \"men are simple compared to women,\" you really meant \"almost all men.\" It\'s OK, I forgive you. *smooch*

[Watcher]

Those that are laid often are simple those that dont get all confused.

[druid]

there is a guy named gunwitch from ASF and i think he put it best on how to determine what kind of chick a guy can pull in. He says that is a combo of 2 scales. 1st scale is looks, 1-10 pts. 2nd scale is effort, 1-10 pts. You add up both numbers divide by 2 and that is a guys upper capacity. So even if you are a 10 in looks, you have to be a 10 in effort to pull in the 9-10\'s. Because men are expected to initiate. So a 10 who is extremly passive won\'t do very well, a 5. Most guys, especially ones who consider them selves goodlooking won\'t intiaite with a 5. They are thinking about/watching the 9\'s and 10\'s.

There are good reasons men are attarcted to beautiful women -- because beautiful women carry triats of fertilty. Those traits tell a man she will have healthly kids. Besides MEN almost always HAVE to intiate! So he has only one filter to use to decide who he is gonna go for -- LOOKS. I mean I can\'t simply look at a girl and tell about her personilty in a few seconds or look at her and tell if she does anal. Looks are what we HAVE to use. But a guy who approaches a woman displays one very attractive trait to her -- confidence. And the better he looks, well.....

[Phantom]

I think men are attracted to beautiful women because they don\'t want to be seen with the ugly girl, they want 9s or 10s rapped around their arms for they can feel \"Alpha\". It\'s the same way women boast about their boyfriends (if they\'re good looking) they say oh i\'m going out with so and so, oh he\'s so cute, oh look at his abs, oh he has a huge penis. It\'s all about Ego and Self Esteem, they want to feel good about themselves and know that they\'re that good, that they can get 9s and 10s and are better than everyone else.

[bundyburger]

<<Women understand each other really well and most of us understand men pretty well.>>

Bullsh!t... And I mean that nicely. If it can be said nicely. /ubbthreads/images/icons/crazy.gif

Ok, if your talking about \"This is how you attract a man\", then your right. But as a whole. Not true.

Maybe at your age woman understand men better, but if there\'s one thing that pisses me off, it\'s when a woman makes up her mind that she \"KNOWS\" what you are thinking. She can be absolutely wrong, you can tell her that it\'s not the case, yet she\'ll stubbornly stick by this belief that she \"KNOWS\".
It\'s like you all get in a group meeting together and try to figure out this \"great mystery\" as to why a guy said this or did that or acted like this. A girl asks \"Why do guys do that??\" <sob> <sob> ...The result of that meeting is written in the \'minutes\' of the meeting and passed down as fact. And then the guy\'s totally f___d. He could be totally miss-understood, but it don\'t matter. It\'s been decided. You all become experts on men as if there is only one personality type out there.

<<It fascinates me to read the men\'s posts and then talk to the other women to see if they picked up the same things I did.>>

Yeah.. Hey, even I picked it up... So would have Phantom, I\'m sure. But you get so used to women not meaning what they say, and blowing your head off for taking the wrong meaning. Can you blame us for needing a more blatant (read safer) cue?? She want\'s to play games. Fair enough. But you can\'t have both worlds.


FTR your last paragraph is spot on. (And a lot of the rest too, but why disect it all. /ubbthreads/images/icons/laugh.gif)
Have you seen \"Beautiful Girls\" with Natalie Portman, Rosie O\'Donnell, Timothy Hutton, Matt Dillon, Lauren Holly, Mira Sorvino etc??
Rosie\'s character has an excellent monologue where she go\'s on about \'Real\' women. It\'s a little over the top but it points in the general direction of what\'s correct about men\'s thinking re:\"ideal partners\" or whatever. /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif

( BTW, Good movie that! /ubbthreads/images/icons/wink.gif )

If only we could all read each other minds. Problem solved. We\'d be laughing. ... maybe paranoid. /ubbthreads/images/icons/crazy.gif LOL but still laughing. /ubbthreads/images/icons/laugh.gif

[bjf]

FTR. I did not remember how phantom tried to initiate sex when she showed him her crotch, but a woman will ask a guy about her haircut w/o meaning lets have sex, so why not show how she just shaved? I mean, this is to a guy who has seen here naked before, so I think she may have really just wanted to show off her new shave job. Alot of the women jumped that she wanted to [bad word], I wouldn\'t be so sure.

I agree with you men are simpler then women. Thats because the criteria of finding someone who will stay with the cavewomen after pregnancy, help raise the baby, protect her, bring in the hunt demands a lot more in the process of finding a partner then a caveman just looking to spread his seeds, i.e. a criteria of finding a female who will spread their legs.


Men make like 100,000 sperm a day, while women like 400 eggs in a lifetime. Women can\'t just afford to be choosing anyone. Men can.

I didn\'t think you wrote heat in your last post. I just think that nature is cruel and the way we discriminate against potential partners is cruel.

I was trying to point out why men are so manipulated by female beauty. When we see a beautiful woman, chemicals released in our brain, similar to being high and being hungry, go off. This makes us feel it inside, long for it and love it. It makes the visual experience something you feel inside. Women don\'t get those chemicals released simply from looks.

But this is how males evolved, and looks were deemed to be an important criteria in finding successful female mates with good DNA. A lot of the looks features are actaully indications of child rearing potential and health, as well as a history in their dna of lack of mutations, etc. That is why we like symetry. Then their is what we look for in long term partners: lack of sluttiness, sweet types. This is because before birth control, if these cavemen were going to devote all this time and the rest of their life to raising a child, they wanted to ensure that the genes in the baby were theirs, and they were not raising someone elses baby. The goal in the end after all is passing down your own genes.

As far as the guys who restrict themselves to models, etc, and you said this: \"take careful note about whether they are achieving sex on a regular basis, or even better, a steady girlfriend with whom they\'re sexually satisfied and emotionally comfortable\"

Why do you think that is? It is difficult to get into ANY woman\'s heart. You have to prove yourself and start anew every time you meet a new woman. It is constant and never-ending. This is a long process, and women don\'t just jump at at anyone. So, when you cut yourself off to the top 2 percent of the population and you factor in how careful and selective women are about finding mates, then all of a sudden you are not going to be getting laid that often. If you want sex, yea, you are going to have to reduce your standards to a wider range of women. If one long term partner is more your goal, and you can deal with not getting sex, then this is just a choice you make.

Men don\'t understand women, I\'ll give you that. But women don\'t understand men. Women reduce all men to the simplest male out there. Granted, you have a handle on simple men, but I find myself always being misunderstood initially and labeled as these guys. I think women\'s understanding of men is limited to just one type.

[MadDoctor]

> There are good reasons men are attarcted to beautiful women -- because beautiful women carry triats of fertilty.

More like \"supermodels look like they eat so little that they\'d have irregular periods.\" Secondary sex characteristics speak to the part of us left over from a time when we didn\'t have the analytical ability to tell a male from a female, or to know what to do about it.

I\'m sure that homely people are, on average, around as fertile as gorgeous ones. Something sure keeps those homely genes in the pool.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

/ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif

MadDoc, I\'m so glad you\'re here.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

We have birth control now. We\'re not having sex to make babies. Many of us don\'t even want children. Many of us make more money than you do. Many of us don\'t need men -- we just like them. We\'re having sex because we feel like it. Which renders a lot of this evolutionary theory moot.

Why do you think she shaved in the first place, bjf?

Apologies if I made you feel slighted.

The women have to hear a lot of talk about what supposedly motivates them -- just thought I\'d put the shoe on the other foot for a change.

Pinches, doesn\'t it?

[bjf]

More like \"supermodels look like they eat so little that they\'d have irregular periods.\" >>>> Studies always show that men like women with more meat on their bones then skinny super models. Probably cause more meat means healthier and better for child rearing. Guys really don\'t fantasize about runway models, just hot regular girls -- you know that

[Elana]

Great post FTR /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif

[bjf]

FTR -- I feel slighted when women don\'t understnd the instincts we can\'t help.

Plenty of women shave who are not with a partner because they do it for themselves. Just like a women dressing up nice going out isn\'t doing it because she is a slut, she enjoys being a woman and looking beautiful. I am sure you do yourself up at times simply for yourself not anyone else.

I am not saying brith control doesn\'t exist and all this modern stuff doesn\'t exist. That is why I have said evolution hasn\'t caught up with modern society. I am trying to point out to you why men and women are different, and procreation and 100,000 years of evolution has everything to do with it. Our instincts are not going to change overnight just because birth control has been used in the last 1 percent of our existence. Just like women are still going to feel safer around more muscular men then me when I can have a gun nowadays so muscles don\'t apply. We are talking about the origins of our instincts here. What do you think the purpose of attraction is -- ultimately having babies. Whether someone wants babies or not, their attaction to the ooposite sex is tied into the foundation of that cause.


<<The women have to hear a lot of talk about what supposedly motivates them -- just thought I\'d put the shoe on the other foot for a change.
Pinches, doesn\'t it? >>. I am not sure I understand what you are talking about, but I welcome your female perspective in all of this. When I counteract your points, I do so only with the intention of hoping our debate will ultimately lead us to a closer truth. I read what you have to say so I can understand another point of view and I hope you absorb the points that I make before deciding whether to dismiss them or believe in them. Maybe you get a little too competitive when your views are challenged?

[bjf]

Post deleted by bjf

[Phantom]

Instead of doing two posts just edit the last one you did.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Sweetie. You\'re preaching to the choir. I do understand the instincts you can\'t help. I\'m not on your case. Relax. /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif You\'re not challenging my views. You\'re agreeing with them and backing them up.

I\'d rather make love than war any day. And since you\'re not around to do the former, let\'s take a pass on the later as well, how\'s that?

[cuddlebear]

Rather make love than war .. that\'s what I like ... a woman of piece .. uh, peace ... /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif

[Phantom]

Never pick a fight with a Redhead...they\'ll eat you alive /ubbthreads/images/icons/shocked.gif

[**DONOTDELETE**]

I hadn\'t even got my claws out yet.

Being eaten alive by a redhead is not a bad way to go, if you think about it. /ubbthreads/images/icons/wink.gif

[cuddlebear]

And that\'s bad? ... I\'ll eat her alive too ... hey turnabout is fair play ... /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif

[belgareth]

I wouldn\'t have any complaints. /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif

[**DONOTDELETE**]

/ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif

[Phantom]

lol you people are hilarious! /ubbthreads/images/icons/laugh.gif

[**DONOTDELETE**]

More fun to make each other happy.

[belgareth]

So, redheads are one of my favoritte fantasies. Followed by brunettes, blonds, tall girls, short girls...

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Isn\'t that strange, how alike we think?! I love to think about red haired men, too. And blondes and brunets and short men and tall men and hairy men and smooth men and skinny men and teddy bear men and bald men and men with long hair and men with glasses and men without glasses and men in suits and men in jeans and workboots and men. All the men.

No lie, this is the most I\'ve smiled all day.

Thanks for the mood lift. /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif
smooch!

[Elana]

FTR that\'s sweet /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif

[belgareth]

Thanks, glad I could brighten your day.

[Elana]

but FTR....how would you rate the bald guy against the guy with glasses against the guy with long hair against the short guy? /ubbthreads/images/icons/laugh.gif

[bjf]

Why do you think that I am interested in making war with you? because I don\'t support your views? i am not interested in making debates personal with someone over the internet. I don\'t even know you.

I am not sure where you get the idea that I am backing up your views. You brought up birth control -- that in itself was a firm indication that you missed my whole argument. As you said, all that makes \"the evolution point moot.\" Talk to a sexologist or whatever, they will explain to you that evolution is the basis for our criteria of attraction. I was trying to give you a male perspective because you believe men who don\'t go for mildly attractive women fear having to step up to the plate. I am sure if you were in a guys shoes for a day you would not say that.

I also don\'t know how you were so sure of what phantom\'s girlfriend was doing. Something like that could have been what it was at face value or a clue for something else. The only hint of evidence surround what it really was would be the fact that he made a move and his hand got slapped. So don\'t get on the boy like he doesn\'t know what he was doing.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Bite me, sweetie. I\'m not in the mood today.

[druid]

well I will go for a mildly attractive woman. As long as she is not extremly obese or deformed then hey....

[belgareth]

What about me? I\'m the bald, short guy with glasses. /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif

[Phantom]

he\'s a guy if you have\'nt noticed.

[cuddlebear]

I thought I might just add my .02 about \"mildly attractive women\" .... To me, all women are attractive in their own way. I think sometimes all this \"rating system\" is, is an indicator of how far a female deviates from the MTV stereotype of the dream girl. Those \"model women\" more often than not bore me to tears. And my 10 may well be another guy\'s 5 or 6. But I don\'t even know if I even think in terms of 5 or 6 or 10 .. each women has her own \"aura\" that is a 10 to me. I can hear some of you now. Cuddles, you\'re just horny! /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif Well, I won\'t deny that! /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif Anyway, that\'s all, you can remove the soapbox now ..

[belgareth]

You\'re right, as usual. Given a choice, the average woman with her own thoughts and opinions is far more attractive than the \'10\' who does not have an intelligent opinion on anything.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

\"but FTR....how would you rate the bald guy against the guy with glasses against the guy with long hair against the short guy?\"

Oh, that\'s easy. I would have to give them each at least one try. /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif It doesn\'t do to jump to conclusions, you know.

[Elana]

<<It doesn\'t do to jump to conclusions, you know.>>

One should never assume /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif

[Watcher]

The big question is does the big bald guy have $$$$ that would support a family.

ANyway 100 post on this thread.

[marv14yag]

You are rigth...I sent my pic to probably over 50 girsl in the last year online...

And, I got usually from 1-4 or from 7-10 and sometimes a 5.

I\'m like, wtf...I\'m just wearing a polo shirt and in a pic with my family....

But, basicaly, I figure, why talk to something that doens\'t like you anyway?

Dude, I know EXACTLY!!!!! What you are saying.

When I was like 3 4gh 5th...I don\'t know....Before I moved..I had girls that liked me..Anyway, in PARTICULAR, some girl, that was kind of bossy (to others....) nice to me...Anyway, she was like, you like me don\'t you, blah blah, I could have hooked up with her and sh*** I didn\'t. I was so STPUID. She wasn\'t ugly, and that would have at least given me experience, in the dating department.

Who was it, that said, that once you get out of HIgh School, girls actually put out, v.s. just the rumors, etc, that you hear in High School.

Now, it\'s confusing. The way I LOOK AT MYSELF. I think I have a good enough body. Face wise, it depends, I think I have good hair, sometimes I think my face looks mediocre and other times I think I look like the sh**. I asked one girl I know...And she said I have some days and some others that I look good and bad.....Interesting.

And, not getting a strait answer on my pic.

Anyway...

7th grade. Got a note frmo some girl, saying her friend wanted to give me a bj, with a number. I never called (again, I was stupid) however, I am not sure if that was sincere, or if it was someone who believes me to be ugly and is trying to get back at this person?

Same thing in the 9th...A bunch of people were saying some girl likes me, I just didn\'t pay attention, and there was a crowd and they were pushing me into them, and blah blah, and I\'m like, nah man.

Anyway, I don\'t know. I can\'t realy tell....

I was working at Wendys, one of the black girls there asked me if I wanted to f***. I don\'t know what the hell her intentions were, however, I do know she smokes, however, she could have been joking...I said not, not with you...She was black, and I didn\'t liker her, lol....I don\'t think I\'d ever f*** with a black girl...Just don\'t find myself attracted to them.

Anyway, and working at Wendys....I was using mones sometimes, however, I remember one time, which is have LATER READ is a \"hit\" when a girl says that she says \" I feel like I know you...\" Something like that.

What, I\'m STPUID, however, now that I am not, what do I get?

NOTHING....This hasn\'t happened in a while.

And some dudes, I was lifting, had on one of them tight tank tops, and they said I ain\'t got no definition, bull, I do, and anyway, some dude just randomly asked some girl if I was attractive and she didn\'t give a good look, although she didn\'t say much anything...

But, than again, you see people rate other people different.

I have been told I have good eyes, which, I aggree, which is true, but I have been told so and so is hotter, etc...Which, I would not go against, however, it seems as though a girl goes for 2 things...

1. The hottest guys based on face

2. This MAY SOMETIEMS HAPPEN if it\'s abs, no girls care about size in the chest, etc...

Disremark 2...That just goes along with 1...

2. Personality, laughing, etc....

I have no popular \"pesronality\" and I\'m not COMPLETLY HOT as far as face or abs is involved, and so I get screwed over.

However, I have what other people don\'t, and that\'s the ablity to think for myself, which some girls like, however most don\'t in High School, which, is like I said, High School girls, lol.....

I still beat myself up (not only figuratively) for being such a dumbass on the other times....Damn it.

Bart

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Well, it\'s been a long day and maybe I\'m just not reading you right, but ... I don\'t see any reason for you to beat yourself up or feel stupid because some girls found you sexy enough to blatantly offer you sex, and you just didn\'t feel like it. That sounds to me like an enviable position to be in.

[bundyburger]

Bart,

By any chance are the letters on your keyboard getting harder to read? /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif
...you\'ve put in some marathon posts lately. lol

[Watcher]

Yeah those marthon posts are getting interesting to read.

[tallmacky]

Nice post, Bart ever check your face for symmetry. Its all based on missed opportunities and how arrogant/ignorant we were. Funny with your personality type Bart it seems you could use a nubian goddess, someone to tell you to shut the f*ck up. slap your ass chant you on when you are benching. When you speak of attraction, people will have their types and for reasons and such (watch out for a great post by me in the future) but sometimes there is always that one girl that breaks that. Oh now I sound like a Lifetime movie.

[marv14yag]

Oh yeah, and ANOTHER ONE...I forgot of the other day....

When I was in the skating rink, probably 9th grade? 10th, 8th, 7th, don\'t know...

Some girl, I was just chilling on one of the benches, skating is tiring, and some girl was like, stop looking at me, do you like me? I was like, no...she kept doing it...(I wasn\'t looking at her) but, me being stupid, I finally realized, all I would have had to do is say yes, and tell her she\'s hot, and I would have had a girl STUPID STUPID STUPID!

Oh, and than there was that girl that asked me if she could grab my balls (I was sitting at table there, in the eating place) I said...Go ahead....She came over, didn\'t go through with it.Howver, STUPID STPUID STUPID.... I didn\'t do anything back, or say anything, I could have f**** her probably, but NOOOOO.... I acted as though I wasn\'t interesteed.....And, it\'s not like she was ugly or anything...

No, you don\'t understand. Those are probably, everything in this post, and the other one, my whole life, probably of opportunities, all of them.

I took none of them....

I complain that I can\'t get a girl, and yet I was too stupid to take the ones that I GOT. What the hell good is being hit on if I won\'t TAKE THE HIT!!!

I shouldn\'t blame myself, because if I didn\'t take the hit, that must have been for SOME REASON, be it sub-concious, etc...

HOWEVER, nevertheless, for SOME REASON, I believe that because I did not take them, no more opportunities have come (and they haven\'t for a long while....) and, just as if, in not taking the hit, it wards off girls or something....

I don\'t know.

But, I haven\'t been wrong... None of them, I took, I haven\'t had any since, however, at least now I\'m not stupid.

I suppose, sub-conciously, I didn\'t want to, and that\'s why, however, conciously I did. Or, I think a lot of it comes from that fact that I believe I SHOULD because, I don\'t know...Evolution, or society...

I mean, I KNOW I would rather hook up with a girl that likes me and would hit on me, than some girl that my friends says like me...

It goes like, in the younger years, when girls are first starting to mature, I think they act more like adults than, than they do the few years between that, and adulthood for them. Because at that time, and than when they are adult, they will, for the most part, let you know.

I am stuck at a bad age. But, someone said that, when you are older, a girl will hit on you, not just romors, etc...I think it\'s the same too, when a girl first hits the puberty. From what it seems.

I\'m stuck in 1. A small town, with close-minded people...Who believe in false love. Even if lose if chemicals....They believe the other person has these when they DON\'T.

2. I am at a bad age level, not adults, not in puberty girls. They don\'t knwo what they want...And I don\'t even know if girls are even interested in guys...And, if they are, they shouldn\'t act the way they do. If they are going to flrit, give it meaning, if not, why do it? Finding themselves, whatever, that\'s bull......


And, that\'s another thing.

You don\'t understand, I\'d rather be one or the other. Some people think I look good, others don\'t?

What happens?

Either I believe someone doesn\'t like me, and give up a missed opportunity to ask them out or something (however, even if someone does think I look good, perahps it is becuase of where I am, or age, or both, but they REALLY don\'t want to go out, don\'t seem \"interested\" I think that would have a lot to do with small town livng than anything else...)....

Or, I get embarresed.

Eeither way, I\'m screwed. And if I do one, I miss out half the tiem one one of them....Either I get the girl, and am embarrassed half of hte time, or I am not embarrassed half the time, but don\'t get the girl, or I do it sometimes and than others, etc.

But, I\'m serious about the not wanting to hook up. I\'m sure there are some girls that don\'t think that I am ugly, but, they don\'t WANT to go out, not that they wouldn\'t, but rather, not intrested, don\'t care. I could, I could see you know, going out, but they wouldn\'t have wanted to in particular, they don\'t LIKE ME, though, they don\'t NOT LIKE ME. I\'m not the person it seems that the girls LIKE, however, does that matter? I mean, they usually hook up with people they like, don\'t like. Or, they THINK they like, but they don\'t...

Oh, and to the person that asked why I am typing so much....

1. A lot of thoguhts.

2. The keyboard was cleaned by my brother and ister, took out the keys, and took the food and stuff out of it, and cleaned it completely, the keys fly, and don\'t stick anymore.

Bart

[tallmacky]

Bart what state do you live in? just wondering.

What you said below is very very true, girls are more willing and less inhibited when they first get those special feelings of guys but then they soon fall in line and learn how to hide these feelings very well, or choose partners based on what others say and so on.

Bart
\"It goes like, in the younger years, when girls are first starting to mature, I think they act more like adults than, than they do the few years between that, and adulthood for them. Because at that time, and than when they are adult, they will, for the most part, let you know.
I am stuck at a bad age. But, someone said that, when you are older, a girl will hit on you, not just romors, etc...I think it\'s the same too, when a girl first hits the puberty. From what it seems.\"

\"Either I get the girl, and am embarrassed half of hte time\"

So when you get the girl you feel anxiety kind of?

[Elana]

It\'s amazing that Bart and Tallmacky totally understand each other. /ubbthreads/images/icons/laugh.gif I think they are soul mates.

[bundyburger]

Tallmacky: \"I lubb yoo mayte!\"
marv14yag: \"I lubb yoo too!\"
** Manly embrace **
Tallmacky and marv14yag in unisen: /ubbthreads/images/icons/blush.gif /ubbthreads/images/icons/blush.gif\"ahemmm...ummm...you had a fly on your back\" ...\"oh...umm. yeahh..ahhh..you too mayte.\"
marv14yag:/ubbthreads/images/icons/blush.gif \"wasn\'t a hug\"
tallmacky: /ubbthreads/images/icons/blush.gif \"nahhh...wasn\'t a hug...I mean, your a man\"
marv14yag: /ubbthreads/images/icons/blush.gif \"No one seen us...ummm... it didn\'t happen. Right?\"
tallmacky: /ubbthreads/images/icons/blush.gif\"right\"
marv14yag: /ubbthreads/images/icons/blush.gif \"yeah... that\'s it!....right...ummmmmm....see you later..ummm...bloke... yeah! that\'s it...Seeya later, man!\"
tallmacky: /ubbthreads/images/icons/blush.gif \"Yeah... Seeya man!...Get DOOoown!!!\"

/ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif

[proteus]

Hey, I hear you - I was like this for a long time - many missed opportunities etc. and too much worrying about whether a gal liked me or not and using that as a basis to decide whether to make a move. Advice is cheap, but what I learnt that helped me was understanding what I want and then going from there. If you worry about whether you are good looking enough for a particular gal you will never get anywhere.

For myself I decided that I wanted xyz, then went about looking for this, not caring whether I was this or that gal\'s type, just caring about what I want and resolving that I would \"convince\" her with my personality etc. to go out with me. And sure I\'ve had my share of rejections, but after awhile it gets to be, SO WHAT, as you realize that not every gal is going to like you/be attracted to you, and just let the chips fall where they may. Whatever else anyone may say about sites like fastseduction.com etc. the one thing that is true that they say and that I have ingrained inside me, is focus absolutely on what you want and stop waiting for some woman to \"bless you \" with her interest - soon enough you find that if you stop caring about what any one gal thinks of you as far as looks etc go, it loosens you up and you realize that there are millions of woman in this world so.....And if you know what you want, then it\'s easy to decide on a course of action. Anyway, very interesting posts you made

[Watcher]

Good advice

[marv14yag]

In my experience, however, a girl has to like you for anything to go on....Even if she feels indifferent about you, if she doens\'t like you, she will not hook up, etc.

What state?

Florida, almost the worst for money wise for schooling...

Not just that OUT OF THE ENTIRE STATE, Lake County gets the least money.

Our school, is the SHITTIEST SCHOOL, I\'m not f**** joking man.

I think that may have something to do with it to. The way people act is the culture. And the school is in the ghetto, it sucks...Noone really fights, nothing goes on, and so you have a lot of drama queens, etc.

Or people who believe they are popular, however, lol, how is that popular. What is there to be popular OF? At the pep rallies, we cheer for a DIFFERENT class, etc....Noone cares...It\'s a gay school, literally...And the education sucks...

I probably would be different in a different state. Also, at a different age, like I had said.

Anxiety = yes. Almost as if, not so much society, but evolution says I have to f*** the girl, but I don\'t want to...Not that I don\'t want to..But, perhaps I am missing these love chemicals towards many people.

Anyway, what I was mainly refferring is....

If I don\'t try to get girls, I don\'t feel embarred, but don\'t get girls. If I do I will be embarressed, and shot down, etc and but I migth get one....

But, its like I said, and most of the girls, seriously, this is a very small town, and from what I normally see is girls going out with just one person for a very long time, etc.

I\'m not completely ugly, and I have a high none ratio....I\'ll be walking, or just chilling on the wall, and girls will walk by and give me eye contact, however, they will HIDE THESE FEELINGS, and look away really quick, or usually are stunned by me or something, but it helps me little, because perhaps only here, but they feel they don\'t LOVE me, so they shouldn\'t have those feelings.

I think that\'s BULL! And, it doens\'t help! They don\'t think they LOVE ME! What about all the d*mn girls getting pregnant! Where\'s the guy!? Did he LOVE YOU BI***!!!!!!!!! WHERE\'S THE LOVE NOW!!!

Anyway, yeah, I think girls have a sexual attraction towards me, not love...

Oh, and I have played with it too...

Example...I like to have fun sometimes....

Girl I know....She\'s got a boyfriend, one of them smart grls...One day I decided to test it out...I asked her something I don\'t remember about what....Probbably stupid, however, I gave her strait eye contact, and talking like d*** that one black guy (not really, but just calmly) not only did her eyes get glossy, but I had eye contact for probalby 20 seconds strait...

Does that help?

No, they don\'t feel they are in \"love\" with me!

In a big city, perhaps, New York, San Francisco, Penn. Indiana (Indianapolis), etc...They do different, but that\'s good, at least they don\'t LIE to themselves...

There, I\'d do that, and end up f*** them, why...They don\'t love me, I don\'t love them, but they wouldn\'t lie to themselves about it, sh**...

I\'ve been told by people either I\'m Evil, and that I look like I\'m going to 1. Rape someone 2. Kill someone

Which, is usually true, however, when I talk (usually when on DHEA; which, is interesting, how it can give you higher test and yet calm you at the same time) I talk softer, etc.

I would call myself a true goth, in that. I am, but not infatactiated with fashion, and all that...

Half of those people out there wearing black and [bad word], they make me laugh...Because I could go up to you, choke you to death, and not have any bad thoughts about it, lol.

So, what do I do? Nothing, sure, I\'ll go to college or whatnot..

However, why do I have to waste my damn high school years in this shitholeintheground!?

Bart

Bart

[proteus]

your town definitely sounds like it sucks as far as the dating scene goes. Guess you just have to be patient till you can move out. But I think it\'s unrealistic to expect a gal will just fall in love with you by seeing you - attraction yes, but love no. She has to get to know you first and this is where building upon the initial attraction is important - if she\'s already sexually attracted to you 75% of the game is already won.

[Phantom]

BUMP!!!!!, I\'m going to try to keep all my hit stories in this thread. Since i\'m going out today to meet 2 beautiful women for lunch today, I prepared yesterday beforehand. I got a small teacup, filled it with 2 ml\'s of water, added 3 drops of PPA/w to it poured it over the jeans i\'m going to wear today, I made sure the pants absored all the liquid and put it ontop of my dresser to dry overnight.

I just checked the pants, it has a faint smell of PPA/w (thats great /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif) I put them on my working table put I got my AE/m put one drop of AE/m on the zipper part (This is when I spilled 1/5 of the stuff) I went to reach (blindly) for the AE/m to close it and I tipped it over with my pinky. Luckly the AE did\'nt spill on the pants /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif. Then I got NPA I wanted to put one drop on the zipper part but 2 fell, oh well does\'nt really matter cause it worked out great /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif.

I put on the pants, got my Gucci Envy sprayed some under my pits, chest, neck, forearms and the zipper part of my pants (smells like sex, lol) It was the same fragrace that I was wearing when I got laid, so I said hey, what the heck and put it on. I have forgot how good it smells!!! thats probably why I got laid lastime lol. I got my barenaked bottle of TE (I raped it, I scratched off the lable in the front and I changed the sprayer top with normal cap so I can take it with me) I applyed 7 dabs total. 3 dabs on neck, 2 dabs on chest/abs and 1 dab on each wrist.

I feel friken great, like an ALPHA MALE SUPREME lol, it\'s a great feeling, like i\'m ontop of the world! It must be the combination of mones and the fragrance thats making me feel this way. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif LOL, newbies don\'t try this at home, it might instantaneously get you jumped by horny perfect 10\'s, raped, laid and beat up. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

I\'ll be going out in about 30 minutes to meet the girls, I got all my stuff ready and I can\'t wait (condoms, altoids, money, keys everything lol)!! I\'ll report what happens when I get back. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[CptKipling]

Good luck Phantom! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

[Lutz]

Yeah, good luck Phantom and be sure to report what happened afterwards! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif