Edible Pheros

[bivonic]

I know this has been discussed before, I was just wondering if anyone has thought about the possible existence here.

Assuming the VNO is a 6th sense distinct from the sense of smell & assuming the VNO is tightly linked with the sense of the smell & furthermore assuming sense of smell is closely related to the sense of taste. Couldn\'t we conclude there are flavors (either known or otherwise) that could elicit similar effects as produced by pheros?

Are the number of distinct scents, pheros & tastes known? What are the order of magnitude between the 3 in terms of a ratio such as -

# scents : # phero signatures : # of flavors / tastes ?

[TheThe]

Interesting. I\'ve heard that certain foods have aphrodisiatic properties (one study concludied that the most \"effective\" was licorice, IIRC). However, the title of your post suggested something else I\'ve been pondering lately: ingestible pheromones that would then be given off like normal pheros. Or similarly, somewhow training/hypnotizing the body to produce more of its own. Time will tell.

[tallmacky]

I thought the samething TheThe ingesting some stimuli having your body (which is far better a producer) produce more pheromones.

[bjf]

just take testerone boosting supplements and take some stuff that makes u sweat (hot chili pepper)

[tallmacky]

lol bjf, I heard about the test boosting stuff out there. seems a bit too much for me at this point, I was also wondering about the possbility of using copulins

[MadDoctor]

I have to agree, I like wearing pheromones, but am not willing to gobble handfuls of DHEA and stuff, sounds way to close to doing steroids. I can do without hair loss, sexual dysfunction, \'roid rage, prostate and liver cancer. Gimme the topical stuff any time.

Oh, and personally, I find naturally produced copulins to be both effective and a pleasure to consume! /ubbthreads/images/icons/laugh.gif

[bjf]

that is why i bought PCC.

copulins raise testosterone levels. I can just sniff it

[Phantom]

Does it work?

[bjf]

i am waiting for it to come in. shipped today. However, i have read on this forum that it can work for a 2-6 hours. I don\'t know. I hope it doesn\'t just raise it for like 15 min!!

[Goanna]

In Reply To MadDoctor;

As a Biology Major and Bodybuilder I can attest to you that your listed side effects of steroid use are those that are created by the media, and feed to the uneducated public. If you do some real research, you will see that steroid use is a safe practice, as long as you do some research first. Beleive me, I know from personal experince.

Oh, and if you are worried about DHEA giving you side effects, you are really paranoid. Plus DHEA doesnt neccesarily have to convert to Testosterone. It is a precursor, and can be used to more easily create extra endogenous testosterone, but if there is no need for it, it wont be used.

Tribulis terrestrius will raise your test levels, because it stimulates the production of luteinizing Hormone (LH). LH signals the testicals to produce more testosterone. That is where DHEA or some other precursor would come in handy, because the tribulis stimulates the testes, and the DHEA provideds some necesary material to be converted into testosterone.

[tallmacky]

\"Oh, and personally, I find naturally produced copulins to be both effective and a pleasure to consume! \"

Hahhaha I gotcha maddoctor!!!


I think I wills research the cops first to see if it is actually effective, and if they do boost test levels among other things the actually concentrate would be almost nothing compared to the pheromone products available here correct?

[MadDoctor]

\"Cases of benign hepatoma, peliosis hepatis, primary hepatocellular carcinoma and hepatic cholangiocarcinoma have all been linked to the use of androgenic steroids, mostly oxymetholone [ref: 1-13]. At least 25 cases of liver-cell tumour have been reported in patients with Fanconi\'s anaemia [ref: 1-6,11,12], aplastic anaemia [ref: 1,4,7,8], paroxysmal nocturnal haemoglobinuria [ref: 1,12,13], panmyelopathy [ref: 9] or megaloblastic anaemia [ref: 10] treated with oxymetholone alone or in combination with other androgenic steroid drugs. Usually, treatment was given for years, but cancer has occurred within as little as two months of therapy [ref: 6], and there have been well-documented instances of remission following the withdrawal of oxymetholone treatment [ref: 8,9,11]. Hepatocellular carcinomas were also reported after extended treatment with oxymetholone of one patient with nephrolithiasis [ref: 14] and of another with chronic renal failure [ref: 15]; and hepatocellular carcinomas [ref: 1,16], cholangiocarcinomas [ref: 15] and adenomas [ref: 16] were reported after extended treatment of patients with methyltestosterone, testosterone enanthate and nandrolone decanoate for hypogonadism [ref: 16], hypopituitarism [ref: 13], chronic renal failure [ref: 15] and generalized weakness [ref: 15].\"
( http://193.51.164.11/htdocs/monographs/suppl7/androgenicsteroids.html (\"http://193.51.164.11/htdocs/monographs/suppl7/androgenicsteroids.html\") )

I know it\'s probably not what you want to hear, but I can give you a few dozen more like that.

[Goanna]

OK captain cut and paste. Oxymethalone is used only to treat Wasting Patients in the US. If someone with virtually no strength, and no immune system takes a substance that is 17 alpha alkylated, they may not have good results.

Guess what though, if a normal, healthy adult takes Oxymethalone at the recomended dosage, there is little to no danger of any adverse reactions related to hepatoxicity.

You know what else, most knowledgable steroid users dont like oral steroids. Why would they spend more money on an oral steroid that has to put stress on your liver, when you can spend less money, get better results, and completly bypass the process of first pass liver degredation, simply by using injectable steroids that are esterefied as opposed to methlyated or alpha alkylated.

All that said, if you were to raise your own endogenous test levels, or if you take a non alkylated substance, there is no danger envolved.

Argue if you want, you can follow all the myths and fallacies surrounding the use of anabolic androgenic steroids, and stay a small, weak individual, or you can follow grow a mind of your own and make your own decesions. I really dont care either way, I am just stating the facts.

(Just to be clear here, you are AFRAID of DHEA, and you bring up a post concerning the strongest anabolic steroid thats on the market for comparison. Those are two totally different leagues there buddy, you would realize that if you really were a MadDoctor)

[Goanna]

One last thing, get a better source for information. All your resources on that post date back from 1985-1970 and below. Try finding some new research material. It makes a differance when you are discussing MODERN medicine.

[MadDoctor]

> Oxymethalone is used only to treat Wasting Patients in the US.
Well, not quite. It\'s also used to treat anemia related to myelofibrosis with myeloid metaplasia and some other non-wasting maladies.

> If someone with virtually no strength, and no immune system takes a
> substance that is 17 alpha alkylated, they may not have good results.
I haven\'t claimed any good results from steroids. But many synthetic steroids are 17-carbon alkylated. And, as you point out, oral steroids are hepatotoxic (because they\'d be victims of first-pass hepatic metabolism unless protected by 17-alpha substitution). I didn\'t even mention hepatotoxicity, lowered HDL causing heart disease, or any of the other harm specific to oral steroids. Just trying to keep it simple, and give your position the benefit of the doubt.

> Guess what though, if a normal, healthy adult takes Oxymethalone at
> the recomended dosage, there is little to no danger of any adverse
> reactions related to hepatoxicity.
Recommended dosage? There are no recommended dosages of anabolic steroids for healthy, reasonably youthful individuals. They are usually used for conditions like AIDS, aplastic anaemia, remedying androgen deficits (e.g. due to castration), or other conditions which are either fairly rare or drastic. Wanting fast results with less effort in the weight room is not a theraputic indication.

> All that said, if you were to raise your own endogenous test levels, or if
> you take a non alkylated substance, there is no danger envolved.
I totally disagree. The health risks assocaited with elevated T levels have been documented in virtually every major medical journal in the world, and I see little reason to think that the endogeny or exogeny of the steroids make much difference. Read the study I already cited, it covers how endogenous testosterone is closely linked to prostate cancer, for example.

Or take a look at the longest running and broadest epidemiological study of all time, the human race. Go look in a nursing home, and you find a ton of old women and a few old men. Gender-specific maladies of the reproductive organs kill vastly more women than men, so what\'s left to account for that? Even natural levels of endogenous androgens don\'t seem to be all that great for us, let alone artificially boosted levels.

There\'s a reason that steroids are banned from all major sporting competitions, condemned by the World Health Organization, etc. People aren\'t just being mean, steroids are unhealthy.

> Just to be clear here, you are AFRAID of DHEA, and you bring up a
> post concerning the strongest anabolic steroid thats on the market for
> comparison. Those are two totally different leagues there buddy, you
> would realize that if you really were a MadDoctor
Raising T levels requires not only DHEA but something (natural or unnatural) to raise LH levels as well. That\'s elementary. That was why I spoke of \"handfuls of DHEA and stuff,\" not just DHEA. I skip the details because they\'d bore most readers here, not because I\'m unacquainted with the basics of steroid chemistry.

The study I cited also covered methyltestosterone, testosterone enanthate, nandrolone decanoate and a few other synthetic steroids, not just oxymetholone.

Now that we\'ve established that we don\'t agree, how about we drop this? I\'ll be dropping it in any event, as flame wars are a disservice to Bruce, and of no use to anyone else.

[Goanna]

Fine, I will drop it. I do agree that a flame war has no benefit, but a heated debate can be interesting.

All I will say is that I still dont agree with you. I will also point out that I am a member of a board with 22,500 long term steroid users, myself included, and none of us have adverse health effects.

[BluTGI]

what about some kind of Pheromint, make it so your breathing out mones