what is DHEA,Tribulus,etc?

[xephaoma]

Hello all, first sorry for asking this question if it\'s not appropriate for this forum and I\'m also very new to this pheromone thing . What is DHEA, Tribulus and all that? Are those used to boost up your testoterine level? Also how do we know how much testorine or phoromone our body produce and what kind of pherome?

and also I\'m a type of person who lacks of confidence, easily feel tired, worried and depressed eventhough I\'m only 24 years old male, above average looking. I read somewhere that DHEA helps to be more energetic. Is that true? If not, then is there anyway I can take like some kind of drug or something to be a little more active type of person or is it just my personality? I\'m afraid to ask these kind of questions to real life persons so that\'s why I ask these online. Thanks for any reply.

[Watcher]

Tribulus is a herbal extract. DHEA is a natural supplement.

Try the following if you havent throught of it yet. Go to google.com and do a web search to check out the information.

[Goanna]

DHEA (Dehydroepiandrosterone) is a hormone secreted by the adrenal glands. It is considered to be the mother of all hormones. Through enzymatic reactions, it can be converted into testosterone, growth hormone, nandralone, etc.

Tribulis Terrestries is an herb that stimulates the production of Luetinizing Hormone (LH). An increase in the amount of LH in the body stimulates the testicles to produce more testosterone.

At your age, a lack of energy should not be related to decreased Testosterone Levels. You should be at your peak hormonal levels right now. That is not to say that you shouldnt supplement them though, as additional androgens in the body can still increase your energy levels, decrease bodyfat, and increase your lean body mass.

If you have any other questions, feel free to ask. I am a major in Biology and Nutrition, and I have a large knowledge of Bodybuilding and Sports Supplements.

[bivonic]

I\'m upper, upper class high society
God\'s gift to ballroom notoriety
And I always fill my ballroom
The event is never small
All the social papers say I\'ve got the biggest balls of all

CHORUS
I\'ve got big balls
I\'ve got big balls
And they\'re such big balls
Dirty big balls
And he\'s got big balls,
And she\'s got big balls,
But we\'ve got the biggest balls of them all!

And my balls are always bouncing
My ballroom always full
And everybody comes and comes again
If your name is on the guest list
No one can take you higher
Everybody says I\'ve got great balls of fire!

CHORUS

Some balls are held for charity
And some for fancy dress
But when they\'re held for pleasure,
They\'re the balls that I like best.
And my balls are always bouncing,
To the left and to the right.
It\'s my belief that my big balls should be held every night.

CHORUS

And I\'m just itching to tell you about them
Oh, we have such wonderful fun
Seafood cocktail
Crabs
Crayfish

[Elana]

Damn good song!!!
I love AC/DC /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif

[MAL224610]

First to clear up something, the primary steroid in the body is Cholesterol/Lanosterol, DHEA is part of Cholesterol metabolism. I can take specific fungii, sugar, and cholesterol and end up with an oxidative result of Testosterone....

The exact way that Tribulus works is not fully defined by research as of yet, some would say that it is the conversion of protodioscin to DHEA, while some will say modification of inhibitory feedback loops(I am more inclined to the later).

At 24, I would first look at a full hormone panel.....Total and Free T, Estrogen levels, thyroid, lh , fsh, cortisol etc.....

I would also talk to a psychiatrist, however you need to know if you are depressed, or simply affected as a secondary cause...because depression can be a symptom of everything from untreated ADHD, Hormone imbalances, allergies, to traumatic experiences.........there is no clear way to throw a dart and figure it out, but if you provide input and discuss what you experience you can better gauge what might be causation....

I really hope this helps, but what you need to do is put your doctor first. Only he will be able to look at a slew of data, and tell you best what might be a cause..Also do your own research, on what he says.....know thine enemy.....some amino acids can be stimulating, like L-Tyrosine(precursor for catecholamines, thyroid, and the biogenic amine Dopamine(also L-Dopa))....(again ask your doctor before taking)

good luck
Mike

[Watcher]

Increase LHA levels and test levels raise natural phero production increasing female attention. Via greater natural sweating and a side body heat increase.

[CptKipling]

Do a forum search

[xephaoma]

Hello Mike and Goanna, your two replies are really helpful. Thanks again. I think I should try L-Tyrosine and see if it can enhance my mood.

[SonnyBlack]

l tyrosine increases the amount of dopamine in your brain be careful with that as too much dopamine is linked with nervousness and anxiety. Also anything that raises your dopamine levels alot decrease your seratonin levels ....

[xephaoma]

Sonyblack, do you think 500mg of L-tyrosine a day is a good amount I should take? Thanks

[DrSmellThis]

1or 2 500mg capsules, 1-3x a day is the range, I think.

I just take like 2/day.

l-tyrosine is used for ADD as well.

[SonnyBlack]

ive tried l tyrosine to help concentrate with my studies but I found it made me very aggressive, moody and anxious and gave me bad headaches...

[DrSmellThis]

That\'s what it does when you take too much, but it might just not be right for you. There are other supplements.

[Phantom]

DMAE might be good for you read the info below.
(http://smart-drugs.net/info-DMAE.htm)
You can get it at the link below for really cheap price.
(http://www.doctorstrust.com/item_details.asp?item_identifier=DT2611-1)

[Watcher]

A full strength Whey protein supplement i find works best combined with tribulus/horny goatweed and some Iron supplements and you will be all set.

[Phantom]

I just ordered 1 bottle of Horny Goat Weed, 1 of DMAE, 1 of Tribulus, 1 of DHEA and a bottle of Maca. They should arrive monday or tuesday, I\'ll report results when I use them for a week or two.

[Watcher]

You should notice very good results with those supplements.

[Phantom]

I was thinking of getting Pregnenolone since it\'s a precurser to DHEA but i\'ll save that for my next order.

[marv14yag]

Pregnelone IS a pre-cursor to DHEA, but I think DHEA is the main thing, in that pregnolone only has the purpose of basically turning into DHEA, or/and dhdea is the only thing that is androgenc, turning itno all the other hormones.

Bart

[Watcher]

Before i used pregnelone i would just take a ZMA formula (zinc and magnesium). Combine it with DHEA and u can get the androstenol in supplement form at most health food outlets in the USA europe and australia.

[xephaoma]

Is it good for me(24yrs male) to take Tribulus supplement everyday? Does it have any side effect? I heard that it also produce testoterone.

[Watcher]

Yeah it should be fine, anyone over 20 should take something to raise their hormone levels. It raises sex drive.

[SonnyBlack]

does DHEA have a high conversion to estrogen???Ive been working out quite heavily lately (running twice a day everyday ..weights 3 times a week) in preparation for spring break and Ive been getting the feeling that my test levels are dropping a bit since Im clearly overtraining. I want to try sublingual DHEA but Im afraid it might convert..what do you all think??

[phersurf]

Tribulus might cause you to break out. Workout intensity will definately go up as wel as sex drive.

[marv14yag]

DHEA becuase is a percursor for basically most all the hormones adrenally, it does not go directly to testosterone.

It merely raises basically all your hormones. Yes, estrogen, however only at the ratio you produce, it does not change this.

That is why it has been shown it does not convert, yes, it will raise both estrogen and testosterone however, it won\'t convert unless under very very high doses 800 mg and above.

That\'s why it\'s safe, it\'s just raising your own stuff, and it only raises to max. Meaning, if you are not overtrainiing it won\'t do much, but it makes it VERY MUCH harder to overtrain. in fact, it may feel as though you can go on forever, until you get those damned sharp pains in the muscle...The rest of the body is fine but the muscles can\'t do that sh**...

Also, for a lot of bodybuilders taking estrogen blockers, it lowers sex drive, and also lowers agression. Why? Because, without the right ratios nothing happens at all.

Bart

[Whitehall]

If you\'re overtraining, then DHEA will not help much, if at all.

Why overtrain? Like the doctor says, if it hurts, don\'t do that.

DHEA can be useful for older guys but young guys should avoid (or you\'ll turn out like Bart!)

Tribulus can do positive things for a lot of guys. Avena Sativa can also work surprisingly well. Tribex-500 by Biotest seems to be a good combo although I haven\'t tried the latest formulation.

[Phantom]

\"DHEA can be useful for older guys but young guys should avoid (or you\'ll turn out like Bart!) \"

What do you mean?

[Watcher]

What he is saying is that it might not be as much benefit. Older men have a hard tiem turning zinc into DHEA. That is why direct DHEA is benefical for older men. Younger men have no problem. That is why tribulus/avana satana combined with a ZMA supplement.
*ZInc and magnesium
ANd add soem protein supplements and plenty of carbs and water (esp during workout or milk) and you will have no problems bulking up and make sure you get plenty of Vitamin C (fruit and veg i would say)

[marv14yag]

DHEA will not help overtraining?

I believe that statement to be false. DHEA, like all steroids increase the body\'s recovery ability and signals the body to make more red blood cells, increasing work capapcity.

No steroids = 3 sets of a lift 3 time a week = before overtraining.

Steroids = 20+ = regular and won\'t overtrain.

However, the more sets you do, the less benefit you get.

The most effective set you do is the first one, and after that the amount of muscle and health you get for the amount of work you do, will go down, however you will still benefit more than not doing it.

Either way, yes, it does help you from overtraining.

Testosterone makes you less tired.

Taking DHEA, I can get 5 and a half hours sleep for 3 or more days and not even be tired, etc.


You still need sleep, however testosterone is what gives you the drive, DHEA increases testosterone.

Bart

[Watcher]

So increased testostrone increases recovery time.

Another note if you are working out it is helpful to avoid working the same muscle groups all the time, perhaps you should (anyone reading this) put in some running or aerobic work in conjunction with a weight training focus. Take up sports perhaps.
Swimming is another great idea.

[Phantom]

You mean Decreases recovery time

[Watcher]

Correction

Higer testostrone increases the speed of recovery time from workouts/exercise.

[MAL224610]

bottom line....Basic precursor is Cholesterol....this does not change on any level of androgen metabolism.....Why? because I can end up at any hormone from any stage....be it cholesterol, pregnennolone, progesterone, testosterone or DHT (even metabolites of DHT can move backwards to become DHT again)...... these functions occur naturally in the body, and even in the adrenals(from anystage based upon presence of HSD enzymes)...

Lets recap old talks...

Testosterone = Rate limited mechanically, direct & indirect chemical signaling(LH etc.)....including enzymes

Estrogen, = only limited by amount of circulating cholesterol based steroids, and enzymes....does not require LH or FSH in men.....So DHEA can always convert to estrogen directly just like andro and test........800mg? bottom line, 25mg 100mg 200mg....it doesn\'t matter, the body doesn\'t produce that much, so again, increasing supporting material, and if you produce enough amounts of aromatase(always making this enzyme) you will get estrogen increases on any dose amount...

DHEA and overtraining.....there is absolutely no scientific base for this....DHEA does not improve anaerobic performance, if it does please provide medical journal reference, I would be intrested in seeing the study.

DHEA is a natural calming agent, much like Testosterone, converts into androsterone. Androsterone modulates GABA-A Receptors, thereby reducing agression(studies pointing to testosterone as potent anxiolytic(antianxiety), and antidepressant.)...

Any bodybuilder will tell you that anti-estrogens can make you highly moody and agressive. Libido does go down, because of the involvement of E receptors in the gonads interacting with DHT...DHEA does not impact libido directly......DHEA\'s main receptors are CNS/Neuronal receptors.....

Hormones are Hormones, treat them with respect or you can and will get burned.

If you want to boost testosterone naturally first you reach for ZINC/MAGNESIUM(lowers circulating estrogen by increasing the rate of excretion via cP450 enzymatic pathways).
Second balanced nutrition, with healthy amounts of cholesterol. take your vitamins ACES (a c e selenium), along with a low dose b-complex 10-25 mg at most(to much b6 can desensitize androgen receptors, thereby reducing effectiveness of circulating test). Exercise with appropriate rest(exercise time frame should be around 45 minutes max)........you can try ginseng...or you can also take trib....I still think vitamin/mineral route is better...don\'t waste money on expensive ZMA\'s either....Buy combo Zinc Monomethionine/Copper(zinc can delpete copper levels), and look at magnesium citrate powder(natural calm, etc.) cheaper and much more effective than the 20$ pills, and will last a heck of alot longer.....

mike

[marv14yag]

Dude! I didn\'t know that, but it MUST BE TRUE! I mean, when I\'d work out, while on DHEA I am MORE AGGRESSIVE. But when I\'m not working out. I seem to be VERY VERY LAID BACK. In fact, I will be talking in a soft voice (not very loud at all) and almost seem to be really calm, like you get from weed.

I didn\'t know it was from the DHEA though. I thought it could have been from excessive masterbation or something.

That\'s interesting though. I did not KNOW rone did that. Rone COULD THAN be the BEST pheromone to use near women, because it calms them. When you are calm, LH levels go up!

However, from what I have noticed, women get more aggressive, not calm. PERHAPS when someone senses themselves melowing they overcompensate and become MORE AGRESSIVE, unless you are like on the DHEA 25mg and crap.

Oh, convert, yeah, I said it converted, both to estrogen and testosterone, I shouldn\'t have use that....AROMATIZE, nevermind. I have not been able to think very clearly (Until NOW!)

Bart

[marv14yag]

More testosterone decreases recovery time.

Speeds up recovery.

Testosterone,

1. Signals acceleration of protein synthasis.

2. A bodybuilder on as little as 300mg of steroids that is 200# can produce an entire extra liter of blood. More blood makes nitric oxide more effect with exercise,

Whatever

I don\'t fee like finishing this up.

Bart

[CptKipling]

Which is why taking ZMA and DHEA in combo is good, right?

[Phantom]

I bought some HORNY GOAT WEED/MACA combo and some Zinc (only $16 /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif )and DAMMMMMMM!!!! I have\'nt had such a good workout in years! even after I was finished I wanted more, after that I drank a Chocolate Soy Protein mix (anyone have any experience with Soy?) I use it just for the protein (it also tastes much better than all those other sh!tty protein mixes) Also my sex drive went through the roof.... can\'t wait to get my tribulus and DHEA in the mail, I\'m gonna get ripped in no time /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif

[Goanna]

Are are your goals? Are you trying to gain mass? If so, drop the soy, and switch to whey protein. Soy is for women, it has very little bioavailability and does next to nothing for nitrogen retention.

Nitrogen retention is what signals muscle hypertrophy, and the protein itself isnt a good souce to be used to rebuild your muscles.

[Phantom]

I\'m trying to gain mass, I guess i\'ll drop the soy and buy some whey protein this afternoon. thanks /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif

[Goanna]

Good Idea. Let me recomend Muscle Milk, by Cytosport. I gaurantee that you will not find a better tasting protein shake anywhere. Also, stay away from muscletech products, they are all hype, no real science or product quality backing them.

Below is a link to Muscle Milk. Now it is available in ten different flavors! I have tried the Chocolate Milk Shake and Orange Creme and they were both very, VERY good.

[marv14yag]

I think that your results are nothing more than a placebo effect. Placebo effects will fade.

Mass?

Lol, as if it is that easy.

If you wnat mass, bench, deadlift, and squat. Don\'t do curls, kickbacks, all that feminine bullshit. It will do NOTHING. And there\'s no God d*mn thing such as \"toning\" either.

Bart

[SonnyBlack]

i think attaining mass is more in the type of diet you follow than the exercises in particular. Eat alot of protein as well as carbs..none of this low carbing if youre trying to gain mass (because you need the insulin surge to push nutrients into your muscles)

[SonnyBlack]

oh yea and lift heavy....and give your muscles many days to recuperate..overtraining lowers your t levels and you aint getting anywhere that way...