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View Full Version : DHEA for young guys



druid
02-18-2003, 03:20 PM
I am thinking of taking DHEA (for the fat buring effects). I know a lot of brands recommend 90 mg every day. I think that is too much for as I am only 23 y/o. I already take ZMA (also what is the best formulation of ZMA??). I am thinking of a small dose, like 5mg every other day. What do you guys thinnk? What are the possible negative side effects of DHEA use in younger guys? Also anyone know where I can get DHEA with a 5mg dose, seems hard to find. thanks.

Whitehall
02-18-2003, 03:36 PM
You\'re close to your peak lifetime production at your age - I do NOT see any reason to supplement DHEA. Never heard about \"fat burning\" and suspect it is a bogus, or at least unsubstantiated, claim.

You might try pregnolone, precursor to DHEA, instead. It has some legitimacy to claims about enhancing memory. Even that is weak.

CptKipling
02-18-2003, 06:41 PM
It is actually supposed to increase metabolism, which would explain that claim.

This is just a WAG that I\'m throwing in here, but if you suppliment over the maximum that your body has ever been subjected to (which is actually as a baby), you will be ok as long as you are living healthily and getting a lot of exercise.

MAL224610
02-18-2003, 08:23 PM
I had an intresting thought, What I know about prohormone usage. If you use an oral pill of 4-AD with another item like a 1-test/4-ad \"skin cream\" then the oral 4-ad would be more likely to bind with SHBG allowing for more free test, wonder if the same would hold true for DHEA, But then again if test is not needed DHEA is more likely to break down into estrone..

I will reiterate what the others said at 23, DHEA is most likely not needed

DrSmellThis
02-19-2003, 04:19 AM
spend money on other fat burners, not DHEA. save it for when you age. I think supplementing long term now would be possibly bad for your adrenals/testicles due to possible feedback effects.

Wolfe
02-19-2003, 07:22 AM
90??..good lord dude, i\'m 54 and taking 10mg a day is plenty even for me. i was using 25 and cut them in 1/2 to get the 10/12 r so i get now. and i\'m still seeing the results happen.

druid
02-19-2003, 01:59 PM
I saw on a website they were sellin 90 mg capsules and they said 1 capsule daily. I guess they were talking about old timers.

Don\'t want any of the fat burners, I tried hydroxycut but it didn\'t work. Guess I will go with the way I KNOW works. Atkins induction and more cardio.

Wolfe
02-19-2003, 07:20 PM
i\'d be very afraid of takin a 90 unless i was 70+ and by then who needs it /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif

PHP 87
02-19-2003, 09:08 PM
Does DHEA convert to DHT?

I\'ve heard that it does and that DHT is what causes hair loss.

Mtnjim
02-20-2003, 02:52 PM
\"i\'d be very afraid of takin a 90 unless i was 70+ and by then who needs it\'

So true, I had a friend who lost his wife at 94, he never took DHEA, and said he \"got it\" regurlarly up until the end.
Unfortunately, he died in November, just a couple of months short of 100.
Even just before he died, he didn\'t want a girlfriend over 40.

marv14yag
02-20-2003, 05:02 PM
Zinc Magnesium Asparate.

And, I don\'t think DHEA is going to burn much fat...Unless you are on a stack don\'t expect fat burning to happen stack of (steroids).

I take 25 mg of dhea a day, and I can tell there is a testosterone increase, and I do recover MUCH MUCH QUICKER!

Bart

DrSmellThis
02-21-2003, 08:30 AM
I reiterate -- health side effect start at 15mg and up from studies I\'ve read (prostate trouble at 15mg).

What I haven\'t seen is a chart matching average doses necessary to have optimal DHEA levels for different ages.

proteus
04-07-2003, 01:04 PM
7-Keto DHEA is a good alternative to DHEA. Supposedly same effects as DHEA without the side effects that come from DHEA use. I practice martial arts fairly religiously as well as do weights every so often so I find it helps with recovery and definitely helps with building lean body mass.

Phantom
04-07-2003, 01:07 PM
7-Keto DHEA is much more expensive though /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif

Cloud9
04-07-2003, 04:24 PM
I wouldn\'t recommend DHEA until your 30+ I\'ve herd a lot on that comment.

Watcher
04-07-2003, 10:14 PM
If concerned try a ZMA supplement instead (zinc and magnesium) the precursors to DHEA and the other androgens that become pheormones upon sweat onto the skin.

CptKipling
04-08-2003, 02:52 PM
For those interested, here is a graph i posted a few months ago.

www.naples.net/~nfn03605/evolut1.gif (\"http://www.naples.net/~nfn03605/evolut1.gif\")

Take note that the largest quantity of DHEA in the blood is just after birth.

I am going to start using low doses of DHEA shortly, combined with ZMA

Phantom
04-08-2003, 02:59 PM
Report the results!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

druid
04-08-2003, 07:59 PM
ZMA is good stuff

Tantalus747
04-09-2003, 03:06 PM
I\'ve never seen any research to support DHEA for weight loss at low doses. As far as I know, results have only been seen at very high doses, and those studies were done on highly obese individuals. Not the type of person just trying to slim down for summer.

On the other hand, I know of at least one study that showed promising results for 7-keto DHEA at a 200mg dose. I\'m not going to take the time to look it up, but I\'m sure you can find it online if you look.

Tantalus747
04-09-2003, 03:16 PM
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
This is just a WAG that I\'m throwing in here, but if you suppliment over the maximum that your body has ever been subjected to (which is actually as a baby), you will be ok as long as you are living healthily and getting a lot of exercise.

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

Sounds like you\'re saying there\'s no such things as too much DHEA. Would this apply to other hormones? I hate to think of people taking unlimited amounts of testosterone or estrogen in the belief they\'ll be fine if they exercise and \"live healthily.\" (Hard to imagine taking large amounts of extra hormones when you\'re not deficient as living healthily.)

Just because something is OTC doesn\'t mean you should take it lightly.

Tantalus747
04-09-2003, 03:33 PM
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
For those interested, here is a graph i posted a few months ago.

www.naples.net/~nfn03605/evolut1.gif (\"http://www.naples.net/~nfn03605/evolut1.gif\")

Take note that the largest quantity of DHEA in the blood is just after birth.

I am going to start using low doses of DHEA shortly, combined with ZMA

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

For what purpose? According to the graph (if it\'s correct, I read some other things on that site &amp; the author makes some pretty wild jumps in logic based on data that sometimes is questionable in the 1st place), you\'ve not even reached the 2nd peak. (If your profile\'s age is accurate.)

CptKipling
04-10-2003, 09:42 AM
I\'m not in it for the fat burning, I don\'t need to be, but thats not the point.

RE your 1st quote:
I wasnt saying i was going to try it, or even that others should. I was tossing ideas around, which is why I said it was a WAG (wild ass guess).

RE your second quote:
for what purpose? I want to see if my phero output is increased. I also want to see if it allows me gain muscle mass more easily. A third reason is that I\'m thinking about giving my grandad a natural boost, but im currently leaning towards just ZMA (or just separate Zinc and Magnesium sups., as finding a cheap supplier to the UK is proving tricky).

druid
04-10-2003, 09:38 PM
captain make sure if you get sep zinc pills that they don\'t have some calcium in there. but I buy twinlab ZMA for about 17 bucks a bottle, which IMHO is a great price for a supplement THAT actaully works. I mean I spent about 40 bucks on some creatine, and look how much other people spend on creatine. And creatine is complete garabge IMHO. I mean you piss out like 70% of the stuff. And if it does work all it makes you do is retain water in the muscle cell. How does that foster new muscle growth and/or strenth gains?

druid
04-10-2003, 09:46 PM
oh yeah. there is no way I would take 200 mg of DHEA a day, no matter what the fat buring effects are. just go with the way I know works. low carb and some more cardio.

Tantalus747
04-11-2003, 02:48 PM
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
And creatine is complete garabge IMHO. I mean you piss out like 70% of the stuff. And if it does work all it makes you do is retain water in the muscle cell. How does that foster new muscle growth and/or strenth gains?

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

Short Answer:

1. Creatine regenerates adenosine triphosphate (ATP). This is the primary benefit to creatine. For this reason, creatine increases energy, power output, and enchances muscle size and strength.

These other benefits are secondary.

2. Creatine increases the amount of water in muscle cells. By doing this, the amount of nutrients shuttled into the cells is increased, aiding growth and recovery.

3. By increasing the size of muscles (through increased water content), biomechanical leverage is improved, causing an increase in strength.

If creatine hasn\'t worked for you, try taking it 20 mins before a glass of fruit juice to spike your insulin levels.

Oh, and if you\'re pissing out 70% you\'re just taking way too much.

Btw, $40 should have bought about 2 kilograms of creatine -that\'s about a year\'s worth even at a high dose - if you don\'t know the right places to buy online, you\'re paying too much.

druid
04-11-2003, 05:43 PM
i have tried the stuff but it didn\'t do much for me. I will give it another go.

CptKipling
04-12-2003, 07:44 AM
Actually I found some 15mg tabs in the house. It has some vit C, but I guess thats ok.

Tantalus747
04-12-2003, 11:57 AM
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
i have tried the stuff but it didn\'t do much for me. I will give it another go.

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

Oh, I should have mentioned if you\'re vitamin E deficient creatine may not work as well. But if you\'re taking a multi, that should be enough to keep you from a defiency... but vitamin E is good enough that it\'s worth taking it\'s own pill.

I also read at least one person who said creatine wasn\'t effective for them on an extremely low fat diet, but started working when they added flax oil. As far as I know, creatine and essential fatty acids arn\'t linked in anyway though, so that\'s questionable IMO.

Lastly, there is supposed to be a group of creatine \"non-resonders. Just a small percentage of the population who creatine does nothing for.

However, if you\'ve not tried taking your creatine 20 mins prior to fruit juice, it\'s certainly worth trying. (This is more effective than taking creatine &amp; juice at the same time.)

druid
04-12-2003, 01:58 PM
well i don\'t have to worry about the fat thing. I think the whole idea of a low fat diet is complete BS. I am pretty much low carb, but i do generally take in some high gi carbs after workout.

krtel
07-22-2003, 07:04 PM
How many mg of 7-Keto DHEA do you take daily? Is any amount safe or is the safety-line set at 25 mg? Thanks.

Krish

Jones
07-23-2003, 12:27 AM
My experiences:


Creatine: Great product. Take pre-workout. Drink lots of water.

DHEA: Good for nothin. Bad for nuthin.

Andy
07-23-2003, 03:43 AM
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">In Antwort auf:</font><hr />
DHEA: Good for nothin. Bad for nuthin.

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

Sorry Jones, but this is bull again /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif. DHEA is good as the hormone it is. in case you are lacking of it, and as precursor to many other hormones. There are many problems that might occur while taking DHEA, like elevated DHT and estrogen levels, this is especially a problem in women! That\'s why 7-Keto was invented. 7-Keto (also known as 3-acetyl-7-oxo-dehydroepiandrosterone or 3-acetoxy- androst-5-ene-7,17-dione) is a DHEA form that doesn\'t convert to testosterone or estrogen, this renders it ineffective for bodybuilding uses. The only reason to take 7-Keto is to benefit from DHEA typical effects like thyroid function and T3 levels, it has shown to reduce bodyfat to some degree in older people, it wasn\'t a double blind study, so I am still a bit sceptic. There\'s not much sense in taking 7-Keto for younger people.

Jones
07-23-2003, 05:57 AM
Druid is 23 years old. Maybe you missed that fact. It is a waste of his and anyone\'s money at that age.

Andy
07-23-2003, 06:06 AM
I have to quote myself here ...
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">In Antwort auf:</font><hr />
There\'s not much sense in taking 7-Keto for younger people.

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

It\'s quite obvious that I didn\'t miss that fact. The problem is that \"DHEA: Good for nothin. Bad for nuthin\" is a statement that\'s just plain wrong, at least not complete. \"Bad for nuthin\" has even a somewhat dangerous potential in case someone decides to pick this part from your statement.

Taking DHEA isn\'t a waste of money, not even at this age, but taking 7-Keto DHEA is more likely to be a waste of money. What is your oppinion based on ?

franki
07-23-2003, 06:08 AM
Andy, this is what Druid said:

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
My experiences:


Creatine: Great product. Take pre-workout. Drink lots of water.

DHEA: Good for nothin. Bad for nuthin.

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

He only said in HIS experience it was good for nothing.

Andy
07-23-2003, 06:16 AM
Right ... and I\'d like to know how his experiences formed his oppinion. I always like to learn something new. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Ahh, uuh, sorry btw. I read my posts so far and they sound like I am flaming around. It\'s not meant that way *whirling arms around*, I am just in a hurry and don\'t pay enough attention to the way I am writing stuff. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Jones
07-23-2003, 07:13 AM
\"Taking DHEA isn\'t a waste of money, not even at this age, but taking 7-Keto DHEA is more likely to be a waste of money. What is your oppinion based on ?\"

Well, basicly, I took DHEA and nothing happended. In males it has a higher conversion rate to E then it does to T. Ive read what many experts say, and they agree DHEA is mostly hype.

dont get me started on 7-keto, If it cant convert to androgens or estrogens then it has no activity. It is common sense. Does 7keto lower cortisol? I have yet to find a study.


Molecules like DHEA and Pregnolone, do nothing. Hell 4AD does nothing. It is there conversion to T and DHT which have activity that males would benefit from.

Andy
07-23-2003, 07:22 AM
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">In Antwort auf:</font><hr />
dont get me started on 7-keto, If it cant convert to androgens or estrogens then it has no activity. It is common sense. Does 7keto lower cortisol? I have yet to find a study.

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
7-Keto doesn\'t alter cortisol and insulin serum concentrations. No effect that\'s useful for BB from this side, but 7-Keto DHEA is an active compound itself. It works basically like \"raw\" DHEA without possible conversion side effects. It\'s perfect for older women (and men) that need T3 alteration and such. Using DHEA isn\'t the best choice for boosting testosterone levels of cause.

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">In Antwort auf:</font><hr />
In males it has a higher conversion rate to E then it does to T

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

The conversion rate to E is even higher in females.

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">In Antwort auf:</font><hr />
Molecules like DHEA and Pregnolone, do nothing. Hell 4AD does nothing. It is there conversion to T and DHT which have activity that males would benefit from.

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

Pregnolone is interesting because it doesn\'t convert to E and DHT itself.

Whitehall
07-23-2003, 07:25 AM
I agree with Jones: DHEA is not such a good idea for young guys. I\'ve tried it out and at 25 mg a day, I soon noticed the effects of increased estrogens - not good.

Again, pregnolone is a better supplement for middle aged men and older since it does show some improvements in mental ability.

I do reserve a 10 mg sublingual DHEA tab for enhancing kissing. It sparks up the kiss nicely giving you a better signal-to-noise ratio.

Andy
07-23-2003, 07:31 AM
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">In Antwort auf:</font><hr />
I do reserve a 10 mg sublingual DHEA tab for enhancing kissing

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

Are you serious ?

Jones
07-23-2003, 07:34 AM
\"signal-to-noise ratio\"

Could you explain what you mean by that? So does a sublingual DHEA help you, or both partners?

real interesting

CptKipling
07-23-2003, 08:05 AM
There was some discussion about this in the main forum a while back, i think DST did it aswell.

Jones
07-23-2003, 08:05 AM
DST is?

Whitehall
07-23-2003, 08:27 AM
\"It\'s in his kiss...\"

Why the hell do we trade slobber as a prereq to sex? Why do we have the phrase \"like kissing your sister?\"

We\'re checking each others\' genetic structure against our own by tasting the new partner\'s saliva. Kissing some people is electrifying while kissing your sister is dull, dull, dull. Your body knows.

Sucking on a DHEA sublingual tab before kissing provides the raw materials for your mucus membranes to make extra strong signals so that when you kiss, it is a clearer signal.

Try it some time - it works.

Jones
07-23-2003, 08:53 AM
So it benefits both of you?

Thats an interesting theory. Where did you hear about it?
I got JVK\'s book from my library, he says some things to that tune too.

Jones
07-23-2003, 09:04 AM
Ive read that kissing produces love chemicals...

Are these \'happy signals\' stimulated by the derivitives of DHEA?

Whitehall
07-23-2003, 09:35 AM
She gets the shock, you get the appreciation. It does make one\'s perception of one\'s mouth a bit tingly.

\"Kissing produces love chemicals?\" Sure, its a natural reaction to getting close to one genetically different. Don\'t know WHICH love chemicals are produced.

Andy
07-23-2003, 01:59 PM
Haha .. that\'s the next step. First mones to get a chick, then 4-AD to get the right weapon size and the \"love chemicals\" to introduce her to your potency. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Holmes
07-23-2003, 04:42 PM
Whitehall (or anyone here),

What\'s a good dosage for guys 30 and above?

Holmes

johnyo
07-27-2003, 09:06 PM
Don\'t even bother with DHEA.. it does nothing as proven unless your over 50. It is so high up the precurser to testosterone ladder that it converts easily to estrogen and that crap. Get 1-ad and stack it with 4-ad.. and eat like a horse.

j

jamesdeanmartin
09-24-2003, 02:59 PM
How long before the kiss would you need to apply the DHEA? Is it something you could spray on before going out to the bars or do you need to do it immediately before the kiss. If I\'m going in for a kiss, I don\'t know about stopping, whipping out some DHEA spraying it under my tongue and telling the girl to wait for 20 seconds or something like that.

Holmes
09-24-2003, 03:03 PM
I recall someone here saying that they used sublingual DHEA about 10 minutes beforehand...(Whitehall, DST...???)


Holmes