Thanks, Germany!

[Whitehall]

Remember the North Korean ship that the Spanish Navy stopped on the way to Yemen about a month ago? It had a delivery of Scud missiles built in North Korea intended, so it was said, for the Yemeni government.

After it unloaded its cargo in Yemen, it sailed on to Germany. There it loaded up with sodium cyanide and returned to North Korea. Sodium cyanide is a \"dual use\" chemical - one of its uses is a precursor to the nerve gas Sarin.

Thanks, Germany.

[franki]

Do you have a link for us?

[Whitehall]

Got this link from Andrew Sullivan at http://www.andrewsullivan.com/ (\"http://www.andrewsullivan.com/\")


http://www.washtimes.com/national/20030218-330306.htm (\"http://www.washtimes.com/national/20030218-330306.htm\")


Please, nothing personal, Franki.

And how about the German Intelligence Service discovering the Saddam has smallpox? And then covering it up so as to not embaress the leadership? (Sorry, this links is in German)

http://www.faz.net/IN/Intemplates/faznet/default.asp?tpl=faz/content.asp&rub={2A936BB1-8BB4-4BBA-8134-C9AD285C8C81}&doc={007FEDEA-C7CA-405C-BED8-27B98B3E552F} (\"http://www.faz.net/IN/Intemplates/faznet/default.asp?tpl=faz/content.asp&rub={2A936BB1-8BB4-4BBA-8134-C9AD285C8C81}&doc={007FEDEA-C7CA-405C-BED8-27B98B3E552F}\")

[franki]

Well, it is not a surprise Saddam has those viruses. The dangers of not having enough stuff to vaccinate have been discussed in the past months in the papers. Although it is still not clear whether the dangers are really that big, I would rather see them having enough to vaccinate everyone. Frankly, if I would be a government official I would be playing it down too in this case, to avoid panicking in the media.

Franki /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif

BTW, that is the best german newspaper (I have a subscription) and even one of the best in the world.

[Whitehall]

To prepare vaccines against smallpox, one does NOT require smallpox virus. The classic method is to use cowpox, a related, non-lethal cousin. Cowpox confers some considerable degree of immunity against smallpox.

I was not able to read the source article as I don\'t read German but the question you seem to infer is why would the Iraqi government need smallpox vaccine? I don\'t think they are at risk of an external attack using smallpox. The more likely answer is to protect Iraqis if the Iraqis unleash it.

The governments of the world may want to keep a low profile on the subject of smallpox to avoid panic but the question remains, why continue to support Saddam?

[franki]

No, the article and the discussion here in Germany is about having enough vaccine in Germany.

Franki /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif

[Lucky]

What do you suppose Yemen will do with the Scuds?

And...Yeah, Thanks Germany.

[franki]

\"What do you suppose Yemen will do with the Scuds? \"

I wonder why the USA keep supporting Yemen (they eventually let the Scuds through) and Saudi-Arabia. Especially Saudi-Arabia and its many \"princes\" have been a major sponsor of Al-Qaeda. In my opinion they should do something against the very rotten regime in Saudi-Arabia instead of keep supporting it.

Franki /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif

[Whitehall]

The House of Saud almost conquered Yemen in the late 20\'s. They don\'t love each other. US support for Yemen gives us some balance against Saudi Arabia.

Why does Yemen want Scuds? To attack Riyadh if necessary.

[Lucky]

This is so confusing...why do we act like Saudi Arabia is our friend? Would we want Yemen to use the Scuds against SA?

[franki]

It looks like they are making the same mistakes again and again. I understand it is unavoidable sometimes, but the USA have a long list of countries with barbaric regimes that they supported (Iraq, the Taliban and Pakistan being most prominent on that list) and that later turned into enemies.

Franki /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif

[Whitehall]

Friends? As we\'ve seen in Europe recently, there ain\'t no such thing in international affairs. Memories are short.

Saudia Arabia is generally an ally but better to consider them a competitor than a friend. When our interests align, we can act in concert with mutual goals and in a colloborative fashion. When they diverge, we can and should act independently. They do. Remember the Arab oil boycott of 1973?

We don\'t want the Yemenis to attack the Saudis. It is not too bad a message that North Korea puts them at risk too. The more they cooperate with the US, the more we can and will do to protect them.

Here\'s an English version from Germany of the smallpox issue there.

http://www.dw-world.de/english/0 (\"http://www.dw-world.de/english/0\"),3367,1430_A_781802_1_A,00.html

[seadove]

<<<They don\'t love each other.>>>

They (the arabs) are so many and are really at each other\'s throats all the time.The only common grounds that they tread on is that they hate Jews and the State of Israel.Basically, they pretend that they support the so called \"Palistinian\" cause without actually lifting a finger to really help them.The Palistinians get more relief and humane assistance from Israel MORE than any other Arab countries.How Ironic !

[EXIT63]

It\'s a good thing I\'m not a diplomat.

post edited by me.

[Elana]

I\'ll edit my post before I even write it. I don\'t want Bruce to ban me. /ubbthreads/images/icons/shocked.gif

[MaxiMog]

<<<This is so confusing...why do we act like Saudi Arabia is our friend?>>> Yes, why indeed? 17 out of 18 terrorist that crashed into the WTC towers were Saoudi Arabian...

[seadove]

<<<17 out of 18 terrorist that crashed into the WTC towers were Saoudi Arabian... >>>

I rest my case.

[franki]

\"<<<This is so confusing...why do we act like Saudi Arabia is our friend?>>> Yes, why indeed? 17 out of 18 terrorist that crashed into the WTC towers were Saoudi Arabian...\"

It is not about ordinary saudi citizens joining a terrorist group, it is about the Saudi\'s supporting terror with government money in a big way.

Franki

[a.k.a.]

Speaking of questionable allies... Pakistan and India are squared off in a potentially nuclear confrontation.

If Iraq is considered a reasonable source of WMD for al-Qaeda, how much more so is Pakistan?

On the one hand, Saddam and Osama have a long history of animosity (during Desert Storm, Osama offered to lead his mujahadin in an overthrow of the “secularist infidels” of Saddam’s Ba’athist Party). On the other hand there is a powerful islamicist presence within the Pakistani military (these are the folks that armed, trained and provided logistical support for the Taliban takeover of Afghanistan) and Pakistan was Osama’s most likely escape route.

I don\'t know. Where would YOU go if you were al-Qaeda looking for weapons of mass destruction?

But that’s all assuming Homeland Security is the driving motive behind an Iraqi invasion. It’s much more likely that Saddam angered Washington by switching to euros as the transaction currency in the UN Oil for Food program, back in 2000. This was probably a political move to win European support for an end to sanctions. But he has since enjoyed a 17% profit as the dollar continues to drop against the Euro.

Then, shortly after Bush labeled Iran part of the “axis of evil”, the Central Bank of Iran entered into negotiations with Europe to receive IT’S oil payments in euros.

In the currently recessionary global economy, the REAL threat to US interests is that major oil exporting nations will convert to euros as the transaction currency. (This doesn’t even have to be politically motivated given the US’s huge balance of payments deficits and the inflated equity of its corporate assets.) Oil importing countries (most notably Japan) would trade their dollar reserves for euros and the US economy would go into a tailspin.

Germany, on the other hand, as the leading economic power within the EU, would most likely break out of its long recession and emerge as the new force to be reckoned with in international finance. Given the current breakdown of NATO, the fact that Russia continues to be a military superpower, and Putin’s vacillations between the US and Germany, it’s not unthinkable that an alliance between Germany and Russia could change the face of world politics as we know it.

In an increasingly multilateral world, Bush’s crude unilateralism strikes me as a geopolitical dinosaur. But what do I know.

[franki]

With the annual military budget expanding to more than 500 billion dollar in a few years (more than all the other countries in the world together), it will be interesting to see how the USA uses its power and if it chooses the unilateralist or the multi-lateralist way.

[TBiRD]

Americas secret services aided Saddam in becoming the gorgeous curiosity he was never meant to be.

Now see how that backfires....So stop whining bout Germany.

Actually all these war threads are useless , cos NOBODY of us can do anything about it. Politicians all around the world are corrupt and can be manipulated into anything. Doesn\'t matter where. Its always the same thing for Germany , America whatever.

You think you can change things for the better though your vote , well remember how Bush became president and think again.

+ Those links u posted ,do u really think any REAL/VALID information would ever leak to the stupid masses ??? Pull my other leg.

Want to have a good time ? Compare a german history book to an american history book - see how the same events are being described in totally different ways to each countrys advantage.


Thx Germany ? Yeah right , you are welcome /ubbthreads/images/icons/laugh.gif

[EXIT63]

OOOOh, The MIGHTY Europeans are gonna be flexing their muscles. Us poor weak Americans had better go run and hide. We don\'t want our German masters to be mad at us.

And we\'d better watch what we say and do..or the Mighty Russians might have to show us a thing or two. Superpower my ASS. Why, because they\'ve got a bunch of nukes they can\'t use. Their great red army fought the Afghanis for TEN YEARS and lost. How long did it take America to kick Afghanistans ass? About 3 weeks.

They can\'t even beat the stinkin Chechnyans for Gods sake. Even the pussy French could kick Chechnyas ass.

Remember this, The world is governed by the aggressive use of force. It\'s going to take ten years for the U.S. to win the war on terror. It\'s not gonna stop after Iraq. It might go a little bit faster if you Eurotrash would get off your dead asses and help out.

[franki]

Why would the war on terror ever stop? I think there will always be terrorist organisations that are threatening and that need to be eliminated. Maybe this is even a war, that can\'t be won.

I agree with you on the Russia/Europe part. I think AKA\'s scenario is very unlikely and both the russian military power and the european economical power are not enough to make a real counterpart of the USA. I doubt that Europe would want to work together with Russia.

Franki /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif

[TBiRD]

Mighty Russians ?
Whatch out who u dissin !!!
You americans will be runnin like da chinese from godzilla when we throw all the empty vodka bottles your way /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif

Btw , Yeah I agree the french are pussy ....

Like Al Bundy once said :

Rule number 1 : It is wrong to be french !
Rule number 2 : Look at rule number 1 ! /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif


Hey no offense just joking /ubbthreads/images/icons/wink.gif

[Whitehall]

That\'s a very interesting point about oil being priced in euros. If the Gulf producers were able to swing that, the US would be in a world of hurt. Our balance of payments is already at record levels - negative - and expenditures for war won\'t help. I hope Bush and crew are thinking about that.

Here\'s one idea for retaliation against the French and Germans:

for the French - issue 20,000 green cards allowing immigration to the US to their best computer people. For the Germans, same thing for their automobile designers.

[TBiRD]

looooool

Dunno bout those crazy french people , but there is no way a german automobile designer would leave his beloved country (The country that makes the best cars in the world) for a job opportunity in \"terror-disneyland-america\".

Especially not because of some lousy greencard....

Maybe Greencard + triple the income + life time supply of german beer , though I highly doubt this......

[Whitehall]

I also see that both France and Germany are in trouble with high deficits. Germany\'s exceeds the EU limit of 3% but France is not far behind. The German finance minister is accused of deliberately withholding the deficit information from the legislature and the public until after the last elections.

[franki]

That is one of the many reasons Germany needs another government.

Franki /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif