Top Colleges/Universities

[krtel]

Alright everyone, for me, a very big decision is coming up really soon; I have to choose which college I want to go to.

It is my goal to get into some of the top schools that offer the best law and business schools. My choice as of right now is:

a. Harvard University
b. Yale University
c. Stanford University
d. Rice University

My question is, does anyone know what it really takes to get into those colleges? I know it isn\'t just a matter of your SAT score, even though it plays a major role. (I\'ve recently dished out $800 on a Kaplan SAT course, aim is 1600)

Thanks in advance.

- Krish

[bundyburger]

Going on all my experience (from watching movies etc, /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif )

Harvard, Yale and Standford are pretty good choices.
Never heard of Rice.

In the movies Harvard and Yale are mentioned more often. Harvard seems to be mentioned more often, so I\'d have to recommend that. /ubbthreads/images/icons/tongue.gif /ubbthreads/images/icons/crazy.gif /ubbthreads/images/icons/laugh.gif

[Tim]

Krish, it takes *everything*. My friend, who got a 1600 on his SAT, and three 800s on his SAT IIs, had straight As throughout high school(he\'s number three in the class), every summer since sixth grade, he\'s done 5 hours of community service per week in the summer (that\'s about 60 hours per summer), has numerous activities, and probably wrote a damn good essay (I personally did not read it) was DEFERRED from harvard until may. That means he won\'t know their decision until then. (Also, the friend\'s white, which probably played a role.)
So, the conclusion is, work your ass off, and write an extremely good essay.

Also, on another note, I thought you were a senior in high school?

[druid]

it probably has more to do with who you know more than the amount of talnet you display.

[krtel]

I am a senior, but I have to start working on a plan now. I wonder if affirmative action plays any role.

- Krish

[Sexyredhead]

A friend of a friend got into Harvard several years ago. Same as you heard above--straight A\'s, great test scores, lots of extracurricular activities throughout HS where he excelled. Also good rec letters and essay. And he was white too. Funny thing was, when comparing colleges, Harvard seemed really hard to get into, but not that much better. The reputation is what you\'re getting. Go for something that\'s going to give you the best education. Look at the courses, the professors, etc. Think about what area of law you want, if you\'re going into law. Some schools concentrate on different areas and teach different approaches than you may like.
Talk to proffessionals and see how they liked where they went. There are a lot of gem schools out there that are recognized for their excellence, but don\'t have the big name reputation.
Just something to think about.

[Whitehall]

Do you want an education or a credential? They are not the same thing. Some school coast on their ancient reputations and/or their grad schools yet do not deliver to undergraduates the wisdom that a great education can provide. If at all possible, live at the school and be part of the campus community.

A third factor is alumni networks. In some places, none of the colleges you mentioned will offer entre into the local \"inner circle.\" For example, getting a law degree from Harvard might alienate people in, say, Florida, where the same law degree from the University of Florida is gold. Go to school where you want to make your life.

Finally, a school is made in the admissions department. Your fellow students may turn out to be more important to you than the professors or the buildings. Choose a school that chooses people like you or like you aspire to be. A \"top\" school might not be the best choice for you, even if you would be admitted. The friendships made in college can last a life time.

That said, I live about 30 miles from Stanford and the climate is great. Palo Alto is a smart, clean, little town and you\'re only a few minutes from the Greatest City on Earth, San Francisco. People associated with the school seem smart and on the ball without being stuffy or stuck up.

Yale is in New Haven - I\'ve partied there and lived nearby in Mystic/New London. It\'s kinda depressing, frankly.

[Mtnjim]

For business, especially if you are interested in International Business, you might want to consider San Diego State University. Always listed as one of the top. Check Kipplenger\'s college guide (also Barrons).
Plus if you are into surfing...

[krtel]

Does a degree from a very reputable school really take precedence over other not so reputable schools? I know one thing, if I don\'t have success getting into Harvard or Stanford, University of Texas at Austin is the next best choice. That school is also very reputable and their law school is #15 in the nation. Although, it probably wouldn\'t be as prestigious as Stanford, or am I wrong?

- Krish

[**DONOTDELETE**]

If you\'re talking about law schools, yes, it\'s important what school you go to, and your grades are crucial. Get into the school with the best reputation you can.

Go to www.greedyassociates.com (\"http://www.greedyassociates.com\") and ask some attorneys about this. I don\'t guarantee they can help but they might. At least I know that\'s one place where there are young attorneys gossiping about firms and the conditions and the requirements, etc.

[druid]

well krish one good thing about going to a prestigous university is the people you meet. You are gonna meet future CEO\'s, partners in firms, maybe even a future president (IMO the education is about the same -- probably better ar smaller universities VS. the ivy leagues because you actually get taught by a professor and not some graduate assiant -- what difference does it make if you read from a book at this universitry or another??). Take me for example I went to a state university which has a pretty good computer science program. I KNOW C,C++, unix, java(like the back of hand), and a couple of scripting lanuages. But I can\'t find work for the death of me. More than likely because I don\'t know that many people in the IT world.

My recommendation get into the school with the best reputation you possibly can.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

And be careful of your associations at that school. I thought it was all about the grades and worked full time and didn\'t live on campus or join anything, left school with nothing but my piece of paper. It continues to amaze me, especially in the professions, how much networking goes on. Who you know matters. Join the best fraternities you can, make the worthiest friends you\'re able, try to maintain the friendships. They will stand you in very good stead.

[druid]

pretty much what happened to me. Worked and went to school is mostly what I did.

[krtel]

Hey druid,

I know where you are coming from when you talk about the IT industry. That is currently my industry. For my first 4 years of college (undergraduate) I\'ll be taking Economics and Computer Science and then go off to graduate school for law.

At first, Computer Science was all I was going to do. I had that dream when I was 13, when the industry was booming. Now it\'s dead. I work for a major Oil company\'s IT dept. which is a global company and it saddens me when I see people of ages 35, 40, and 45 working in an IT position making mediocrity salaries of $35k-$40k per year. That isn\'t enough if you plan to have children or hell, even to be married. So, after understanding myself a bit more, I learned that I LOVE to argue and debate. I also learned that I know how to present myself very well and I have a good deal of influence on people, so I decided, a career in law is good for me. No matter the economy, there will always be a need for lawyers. Take a look at the current economy, and then look at all the corporate scandals. Perfect market for lawyers.

- Krish

[**DONOTDELETE**]

If you have a four year degree in IT, and then go to law school, you could work as a patent lawyer and make big money working shorter hours than other attorneys work for the same money.

[krtel]

Yeah, I\'m definately not making that mistake. Thats why I refuse to go to University of Houston (5 mins. from me.) because it\'s a commuter college.

- Krish

[krtel]

Thanks for all the tips and advice FTR. :-) Yeah, I figured the IT degree would be beneficial to my law career in some fashion, just not that dramatically. But wow. /ubbthreads/images/icons/laugh.gif ty.

- Krish

[druid]

DON\'T DO ANYTHING TECHNICAL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!

[krtel]

Why not? Thats definately not my career path, but it can help my law career. Hell, I have to sit in undergraduate school for 4 years anyway, might as well do something I like along with pre-law. Makes sense eh? :-)

- Krish

[druid]

because there are hundreds of thousands of guys out there right now with degrees, certs, and experience and they are unemployed. And if you have been paying attention to the econmy, there was articele released lately they there has been about 140,000 jobs created for the month of janurary. 100,000 of them were retail, restutants, and bars. Not exactly middle class paying jobs.

[krtel]

Well all, looks like I\'ll be going to University of Texas at Austin (one of the top 50 schools in the nation.) because if I go to Harvard, I\'ll come out with 100k debt. I can probably get a free ride at UT. I guess thats what ya get when you come from a poor family. *sigh* Oh well.

- Krish

[Sexyredhead]

Hey,
I know some guys from UT Austin. Very nice people. Very smart. You\'ll probably end up with an education just as good or better than Harvard, and you\'ll be saving yourself some money to boot. You\'ll also have money to have a life outside of school that way. /ubbthreads/images/icons/wink.gif Good luck!

[krtel]

Yeah /ubbthreads/images/icons/blush.gif) Thanks for the reassuring post. I\'m not that dissapointed about not being able to afford Harvard, just that it would have been nice and something to brag about (oh well! lol) and UT Austin (IMO is still something to brag about.) is a damn good school, I personally know it. Thanks again :-)

- Krish

[Lucky]

Are you getting a late start on this plan? Do you have any idea what you want to study?

[krtel]

Yeah, it is a somewhat late semester. Instead of entering in the Fall of 2003 semester, I will be entering the Spring of 2004 semester. The main reason for this delay is because I seriously need to refine my SAT scores. I come from a not so fortunate high school (located in the ghetto.) no one has scored above 900 on it. I recently bought a $800 Kaplan SAT course, so, I should have more than enough resources now to get that 1400+ I need (and want.).

I want to get my J.D. (Law degree) but for undergraduate I have to take Economics or Government first.

- Krish

[Lucky]

Or English, lots of law schools like people that are good with the language.

One of the best things that will happen to you in college will be the contacts you make. The schools you mention will put you with the movers and shakers of the world (with the exception of Rice, but Texas is a big place itself.) It all depends on how hard you want to work, what success means to you, how tied to a geographical area you are, what can you spend to get in?

Know what I mean?

[krtel]

Yeah, I\'m definately with you. I\'m willing to work very hard, but I don\'t have an Ivy League school budget, so UT Austin is the best thing I can afford, and hell, it just happens to be one of the top 50 universities. :-)

Are you kidding me about Rice? (I\'m shocked.) Rice is a top tier school, #16 in the nation. They don\'t offer law (and they are also out of my budget, lol)

- Krish

[Tim]

Krish, it\'s also number 15 for law and 7 for computer science (as far as usnews is concerned). I\'m sure you\'ll be A-OK.

[Lucky]

I don\'t think Rice could compete with the others if you had international goals, that\'s all. Rice is a great school. If the contacts aren\'t impoprtant, go to UT, have a blast, and get a good education. That network in Texas has some real long arms.

[EXIT63]

Just what this country needs.....another lawyer.

[Sexyredhead]

All I know about Rice is that we beat the crap out of them in football when I went to Ohio State. /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif

UTAustin has a better rep than you think. Everybody knows it. And they\'ve been competing with Ohio State for the last few years to be the largest campus in the US. My only advice, since you want to be a lawyer, is to go out and meet everybody you can--so be ACTIVE, and be polite to everyone you meet. You never know when you\'ll meet some of the most important people of your life, and you might as well make sure they have a good impression of you when you meet them. Make sense? Lots of lawyers in my family, if you can\'t tell. Good luck!

[Wolfe]

UT is a fine school, and Austin is a kick ass town too.

[a.k.a.]

I have a cousin that teaches at Austin. He writes papers and attends conferences while disgruntled TA’s teach his classes. Austin is great town, with an excellent music scene; but that doesn’t give you much motivation for study.

I think Whitehall’s advice is the best so far. I would only add that small private colleges offer the best undergraduate education, as a rule, and Berkley has a very fine Law program.

[krtel]

Alright everyone!

I need help in making a college decision! I have two possible Texan schools that I am interested in:

1. The University of Texas at Austin (Longhorns)
2. Texas A&M University (Aggies)

I am 150% sure about one thing, I am going to one of the two. I don\'t know if colleges in other states are like this, but these two colleges are the top two in Texas and at the same time they are major rivals. They both have great alumni networks across Texas. UT is #1 and A&M is #2. The major difference between the two is that at A&M, there is this \"family-like\" atmosphere, everyone likes each other and it\'s easy to make friends. It\'s sort of like this at UT, but not as much as A&M.

Has anyone even heard of Texas A&M? How would one decide on such an issue? This is one weakness for us Libras, we consider every single aspect of both sides, which can make us indecisive. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

- Krish

[proteus]

Dude you gotta decide this stuff for yourself. Only you know what it is you want to get out of college so just choose which one will provide what you want to the greater degree.

[Sexyredhead]

I have personal biases, all based on football and people I know. I know some folks in Ag at A&M and I really like them all. But I like Texas football.
It\'s up to you. Football rivalry shouldn\'t make a difference to you. It\'s a big deal in my state too, but football shouldn\'t decide your career. Which one has the better program? Which one is closer? Which one treats you better? My sister\'s choice was made because her first choice (due to rep and location) lost her app TWICE, and her second choice called for an interview within 3 days of her mailing the app and treated her like a long-lost relative.
See how they treat you. Go to both and look around--get a feel for the atmosphere. You\'ll know where you need to be.

And good luck!

[krtel]

Hey,

Thanks for the tips. I\'ll certainly use it in making my decision (which should probably be soon.) It does seem like A&M treats their students better than UT does, but I am going to visit both of them. Thanks again.

- Krish

[krtel]

Sexyredhead,

I just wanted to thank you for all the tips you\'ve provided me. That last post really aided in making my final choice. I sat down and thought it through, and picked Texas A&M University. Trust me, it was a hard choice because they are both really awesome. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif Thanks again.

- Krish

[EXIT63]

I dropped out of Hamburger University. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[elvido]

What in the world are you doing?
You\'re choosing what college to go to, not a freaking flavor at an icecream store. Take it seriously.
Actually, they have to choose YOU before you can make your own choice, in the sense that you have to be accepted.
If you actually have the chance to go to Harvard, never decline because of its cost. Get student lones, you\'ll be able to pay them off in a few years. But your chances of getting a job and getting into a good grad school will be a lot better, regardless of the education. It\'s all in the name.
All this is of course dependent on your actual possibilities of getting in to any of these schools. Talk to your college councelor, and determine your real chances.

[Sexyredhead]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Sexyredhead,

I just wanted to thank you for all the tips you\'ve provided me. That last post really aided in making my final choice. I sat down and thought it through, and picked Texas A&amp;M University. Trust me, it was a hard choice because they are both really awesome. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif Thanks again.

- Krish


<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

I\'m glad it helped. I hope you have a great experience there and learn a lot. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

[krtel]

I am taking it seriously and yes I don\'t see the incentive in going to Harvard compared to the huge price tag. I can go to Texas A&amp;M and pay $13k a year and get access to a HUGE alumni network who love their school. For as long as I live in Texas, a job won\'t be something I\'m struggling to find.

- Krish

[DrSmellThis]

U. Notre Dame has good business and law schools.

[foofoo]

harvard is crap, as is yale. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif just think who came from harvard, george bush, and hes a tube. oxford is the place to go /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif,its made of 35 colleges, academically excellent + reputation + oldest uni in english speaking world, + known throughout the whole commonwealth. + graduate from oxford founded harvard,


also harvard is much easier to get into, straight A\'s under the u.s system is easy cos the system is. my friend from kansas came back to scotland to get scottish qualifications cos the u.s ones were too easy to get + easy course content, sorry to say

[tallmacky]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
and hes a tube

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

A tube?

[EXIT63]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
+ oldest uni in english speaking world,

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">


Just remember, if it wasn\'t for us dumb Americans....yer ass would be speakin german right now!

[Sexyredhead]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
+ oldest uni in english speaking world,

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">


Just remember, if it wasn\'t for us dumb Americans....yer ass would be speakin german right now!

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">


Where\'d THAT come from??? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

[elvido]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
I am taking it seriously and yes I don\'t see the incentive in going to Harvard compared to the huge price tag. I can go to Texas A&amp;M and pay $13k a year and get access to a HUGE alumni network who love their school. For as long as I live in Texas, a job won\'t be something I\'m struggling to find.

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

The incentive is that Harvard has better professors, smarter students, and a much wider variety of people and courses, which will make the experience a lot more interesting. Your years there would be more challenging, from an academic perspective and more fullfilling from a cultural one.
Aside from that, ceteris paribus H will give you a better chance at jobs and grad school.

[EXIT63]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
+ oldest uni in english speaking world,

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">


Just remember, if it wasn\'t for us dumb Americans....yer ass would be speakin german right now!

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">


Where\'d THAT come from??? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">


I\'m just playing /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif.....But nobody calls Bush a tube and gets away with it. A Rube maybe, but not a tube.

[Kifer85]

krtel--
Are these decisions/discussions based on where you have already applied and have been accepted to, or are you just speculating without even having applied?

PS. I would never try to compare texas A&amp;M or UT to harvard. Different academic worlds, environments, social dynamics, and especially different types of students. I would only see the logic in comparison for a top decile texan student at an excellent high school who is shooting for an ivy league like harvard and is applying to A&amp;M as a safety.

PPS. I\'m with olvido. This is not about what YOUR decision is. You could apply to 50 schools regardless of what your inclinations are. Its about who accepts YOU! Don\'t even consider harvard as a legit consideration until you are accepted. They are need blind, meaning they\'ll accept you regardless of your financial situation, and would help you out in paying with loans and scholarships maybe. But from what you\'ve said, you haven\'t even applied to harvard, let alone any other school. If youre graduating next month, are you expecting to attend any of these schools if you haven\'t even applied yet?

I hope im not sounding like a dick, but you\'re making it sound like you\'ll just show up in september and start attending classes. YOU CAN NEVER BE 150% SURE OF ANY SCHOOL YOURE ATTENDING UNITL YOUVE ACTUALLY BEEN ACCEPTED, WHICH IS NEVER A GIVEN!! I\'m not sure who\'s been guiding you through all this, but i\'d gladly help you out if you need anything. But if you haven\'t officially applied to any university yet, you\'re not gonna be able to start classes at any school until winter semester at the earliest.

David

[krtel]

Hey,

Yeah, I would like to clarify that I\'m not going to college in the fall, but rather the spring.

I don\'t plan on shooting for any of the Ivy Leagues anymore, at least not for my undergraduate term. Maybe for law school, but for now I\'m only considering Texas A&amp;M University and I have UT as a backup. I\'ve put in spring applications for both of them.

Thanks,

Krish

[Whitehall]

Attended a lecture yesterday that was open to the public on the Stanford campus. It was in the geology department so expected some down-to-earth kids.

Boy, was I wrong! The lecture was given by a former PhD student who went to work on Capitol Hill as a post-doc fellow 5 years ago. Now\'s he\'s legislative director for a leading Democratic senator. In other word, he\'s yet to do anything useful and productive.

This guy had the party line on energy down pat and the kids were eating it up. The lecture was so full of distortions and mis-statements of facts that I was gagging. Plus, the guy wouldn\'t give a straight answer. The kids were taking it all in uncritically.

Stanford certainly has high admission standards and the kids were certainly bright but the lack of real-world knowledge and critical judgment was appalling.

[Kifer85]

tell us something we dont know about every other college in america...

[Mtnjim]

\"Stanford certainly has high admission standards and the kids were certainly bright but the lack of real-world knowledge and critical judgment was appalling.\"

I work at a university and I have noticed that a lot of today\'s students aren\'t interested in \"academics\", they only are interested in their \"major\" classes (and try to slip through those)so that they can get that \"piece of paper\" that gets them a high paying job. Just like a trade school. They won\'t go to Kelsey-Jenney Business School (or Coleman or any of those bare bones \"trade schools) because they want to claim to be \"university educated\" even if they aren\'t. Before anyone jumps on my case about \"they all aren\'t like that\", you\'re right!!!

[krtel]

I agree. I take academics seriously though. I think that it is the foundation of your future.

\"They won\'t go to Kelsey-Jenney Business School (or Coleman or any of those bare bones \"trade schools)...\"

I would be one of those students who refuse to go to a trade school. Why? Contrasted to the most competitive state university, the opportunities just aren\'t there. Another major reason I didn\'t even consider a trade school was that there is nothing prestigious about having a degree from them. It\'s like, ok, big deal, you went to that trade school. But if you go to a university, that CAN be a prestigious thing. Just my personal views.

- Krish

[foofoo]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
The incentive is that Harvard has better professors, smarter students, and a much wider variety of people and courses, which will make the experience a lot more interesting. Your years there would be more challenging, from an academic perspective and more fullfilling from a cultural one.


<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

no way, harvard is crap, academically inferior to the UK. oxford is much better, europeans come there with their different cultures whereas Harvard, a couple of canadians and Mexicans? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif precisely my point.

[franki]

Did you spend time at Harvard then? How would you really know?