Phero References: General and Specific Of-Interest

[DrSmellThis]

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=PubMed&cmd=Display&dopt=pubmed_pubme d&from_uid=11897264 (\"http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=PubMed&cmd=Display&dopt=pubmed_pubme d&from_uid=11897264\")

[MaxiMog]

Oh yeah!!!!!! Thank you DOC. /ubbthreads/images/icons/laugh.gif

[MaxiMog]

The people doing those tests really should come and take a look at this forum. There would be less testing required and more evidence. I\'m not even sure they\'re familiar with OD-ing on pheros. I have never read something like it in any scientific article on pheros. OD-ing is a very important aspect to keep in mind while testing.

[DrSmellThis]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=189279 4&dopt=Abstract (\"http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=189279 4&dopt=Abstract\")

[DrSmellThis]

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=119758 63&dopt=Abstract (\"http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=119758 63&dopt=Abstract\")

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=119281 79&dopt=Abstract (\"http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=119281 79&dopt=Abstract\")

[DrSmellThis]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=115542 17&dopt=Abstract (\"http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=115542 17&dopt=Abstract\")

[MaxiMog]

I posted that DHEA article in the DHEA-S thread, too.

[MaxiMog]

LOL. So if you wear cops as a man, you\'re in fact keeping women away. This is gonna mark the end of a lot of EW testing on men I guess.

[MaxiMog]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov:80/entrez/query.fcgi?db=PubMed&cmd=Display&dopt=pubmed_pubme d&from_uid=11369678 (\"http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov:80/entrez/query.fcgi?db=PubMed&cmd=Display&dopt=pubmed_pubme d&from_uid=11369678\")

[DrSmellThis]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=100671 38&dopt=Abstract (\"http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=100671 38&dopt=Abstract\")

[DrSmellThis]

...for -none to work as a pheromone, if it does.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=898085 2&dopt=Abstract (\"http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=898085 2&dopt=Abstract\")

[DrSmellThis]

...by bacteria, and proportions of mones on the body.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=814231 9&dopt=Abstract (\"http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=814231 9&dopt=Abstract\")

[DrSmellThis]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=114255 11&dopt=Abstract (\"http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=114255 11&dopt=Abstract\")

[DrSmellThis]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=124025 61&dopt=Abstract (\"http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=124025 61&dopt=Abstract\")

[DrSmellThis]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=120117 90&dopt=Abstract (\"http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=120117 90&dopt=Abstract\")

[DrSmellThis]

It just said no effect, not that you\'re keeping women away, per se.

[DrSmellThis]

As Madmaxx said, those talking about using cops might read the above article.

I hope folks are checkin\' this thread out -- much of what\'s been done in the past few years is here. I sorted through oodles and oodles of links over the course of hours to find relevant abstracts. Also this links to a great search engine for all types of phero information! Dudes!

[DrSmellThis]

http://wwwpsy.uni-muenster.de/inst2/maiworm/index.html (\"http://wwwpsy.uni-muenster.de/inst2/maiworm/index.html\")

Great link! Must read!

[jvkohl]

I\'m not sure anyone can get the straight story by reading the actual journal articles. \"Statistics can lie....\" Any work associated with Winnifred Cutler is suspicious, and her Archives of Sexual Behavior article was seriously critisized in a subsequent issue (by Charles Wysocki and George Preti). I have other links from my website: Scientific evidence page, if anyone wants to continue reviewing articles; I also try to include comments on the individual articles or interpretations of findings.

[DrSmellThis]

Yes, the big picture is hard to understand without secondary sources and a scientific background...Of course it is well known that your home page and book are excellent sources of scientific information. We also have to read journal articles to get a feel for what\'s being done. For forum members I think it might both be satisfying and reduce misconceptions to see where information they see bandied about comes from. You are right that it doesn\'t end there. It\'s too bad Winnifred doesn\'t value her own scientific community more.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Why don\'t we like Winnifred?

[cuddlebear]

My understanding is that there was a conflict of interest where the research was being done more to push a product than to get the truth .. JVK could elaborate I\'m sure ...

[DrSmellThis]

She declines to participate in the scientific dialogue regarding her claims, from what I\'ve heard; giving folks little reason to believe her. I assume she must believe it unwise economically to do so, or else she has nothing positive to reveal. Too bad, but I don\'t think it hampers us too much, regarding DHEA.

[DrSmellThis]

That is the link that lead to an article that talks of -rone, BTW...

[DrSmellThis]

bump for availability...

[DrSmellThis]

Skeptics, check out the very first article abstract in the top link for starters! This is possibly the most important single study conducted on pheromones, for forum purposes, that is.

[DrSmellThis]

From time to time

I plan to freshen up this old thread for newbies by adding articles.

This one indicates that we are not the

only ones caught up in the smell/vision discussion, and that we may as well assume both smell and vision are

important, since for example we do not know the extent of functionality of the human VNO compared to that for other

primates. We know there is some functionality, and are reasonably certain that non-vomeronasal pheromone pathways

exist as well. For these reasons, only research on humans can provide strong scientific evidence regarding pheromone

pathways and effects in humans. Research on other mammals, however, is an excellent source for

hypotheses.

http://www.pnas.org/cgi/content/a

bstract/100/14/8337 (\"http://www.pnas.org/cgi/content/abstract/100/14/8337\")

It is also interesting that pheromones are water-soluble. That must be why I

noticed that soapless hot showers were helpful.

[CptKipling]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Pheromones are water-soluble chemicals

<hr

/></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

I\'m pretty sure that adrogens are lipid, not water, soluble. Maybe

they are talking about another chemical family?

[DrSmellThis]

I would guess the

nasty ones might be water soluble, so that nature could allow for water bathing to be effective. A species too

grossed out to reproduce doesn\'t last very long.

[Irish]

“Scientists are

debating why primates evolved full color vision and whether that development led to a reduced sense of smell.”


http://www.sciencenews.org/20031011/bob9ref.asp (\"http://www.sciencenews.org/20031011/bob9ref.asp\")



Surely all lies?!?

Oh the humanity! Oh the heresy!! Tall tales of the independence and importance of

sight over olfaction!!!

“We presume that, at a certain point in human evolution, ancestral species may have

relied more on visual and auditory signals, rather than on chemical signals, for communicating social and

reproductive status...an enhanced reliance on vision may have led to a reduced reliance on chemical signaling in

mediating social interactions” (Liman)

\"...suggesting that a vision-based signaling-sensory mechanism may

have in part replaced the VNO-mediated chemical-based system in the social/reproductive activities of hominoids and

Old World monkeys (catarrhines).\" (Zhang)

I can’t take it any more – it’s all a conspiracy of evil idiots!

They are all wrong (though I can’t quite remember why...). Olfaction rules, and is the mother-goddess of all senses.

Amen.

[Jones]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font

class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Pheromones are water-soluble chemicals

<hr /></blockquote><font

class=\"post\">

I\'m pretty sure that adrogens are lipid, not water, soluble. Maybe they are talking

about another chemical family?

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

Androgens are soluble in

lipophillic mediums and alcohols. Not water. Your right. But they are slight soluble in water, thats why showers

work.


But as far as the visual thoery thing goes, JVK talks about this in his book. I think thats where

I read it atleast. It makes perfect sense to me.

The VNO was phased out, but still has a small residual

value, which can be exploited. Nothing of course can trump the visual card. A women will go for perfect

looks/body over a flabby ugly dude no matter what he smells like.

[Irish]

An even more extreme

spin on the afore-mentioned pseudo-gene findings:Humans cannot detect pheros!

http://dsc.discovery.com/news/afp/20030616/pher

omone.html (\"http://dsc.discovery.com/news/afp/20030616/pheromone.html\")

This has come up before - the typical animal genetics don\'t fit for humans therefore,

they claim with all the assurance of a priest, there are no human pheros. That of course ignores Oklahoma City

research suggesting an unusual electrochemical pathway in humans, and even more tellingly ignores the Savic &amp;

McClintock brainscan findings showing clear activation of the brain (by unknown pathway). For f$%^\'s sake,

doesn\'t anyone understand elementary logic anymore? I am sick of extreme claims on both sides that overreach the

data! There are interesting clues in this work regarding the role of vision vs sight...when the dogmatists quit

yelling at each other perhaps we will be able to scope out the actual roles of olfaction and vision (and other

senses) in human interaction. Until then we must endure the screaming of extremists.

The annoying thing is

there are clearly some insights in these findings, but the \"100% or nothing\" crowd will throw the baby out with

the bathwater because of extremist interpretations that will accompany the valid findings. Instead of laying out all

the (seemingly) contradictory findings and attempting an integration (which may, by f#$%, exceed some initial

explanations in insight or scope), they will seize upon one another\'s excessive claims and nuke one another.

Pretty F$%^-up way to do science.

I\'m waiting for the mushroom clouds. Could be wrong...but I\'m

not.

[nonscents]

Wimpy moderate!

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif

[DrSmellThis]

What\'s

brilliant is that Irish edited that post. For f@##\'s (\"f@##\'s\") sake ya bullocks!

[DrSmellThis]

bump for newbies

[DrSmellThis]

And, for the sake of having more

things in one place, here is JVK's site. You have to click on the link to get to the "scientific evidence" page.



http:///

[bjf]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&amp;db=PubMed&amp;list_uids=

11425511&amp;dopt=Abstract (\"http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&amp;db=PubMed&amp;list_uids=1

1425511&amp;dopt=Abstract\")


So should we be taking tryptophan?

[einstein]

Good luck finding tryptophan is

the US. There was a contaminated batch a decade ago that killed 40 people. You can try 5-HTP instead. 5-HTP is an

intermediate between tryptophan and serotonin. It is widely available anywhere supplements are sold, even

walmart.
5-HTP also has the advantage that it can only be used to make serotonin. You can take it with a meal and

it can't be used to make other proteins.

[bjf]

I actually have 5-HTP. Makes me feel

like crap and puts me to sleep.

[Holmes]

Good luck finding

tryptophan is the US. There was a contaminated batch a decade ago that killed 40 people. You can try 5-HTP

instead. 5-HTP is an intermediate between tryptophan and serotonin. It is widely available anywhere supplements are

sold, even walmart.
5-HTP also has the advantage that it can only be used to make serotonin. You can take it

with a meal and it can't be used to make other proteins.

I have tryptophan and 5-HTP. All they've

done is knock me out.

Mike Tyson in a bottle.

[DrSmellThis]

I take 5-htp daily and like it

quite a bit. BJF seems to have a sensitive nervous system in some ways, and may have special needs or be fine and

balanced just as he is. ;)

[bjf]

Doc, you calling me a

sissyyy!!!?

Just kidding. :)

[DrSmellThis]

No, I was commenting on your

level-headed sanity.