Relationship help needed. Female opinions also? Please help!!!

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Look, I\'m not much of one to talk about my personel life, but I need some help or what ever from you guys and the women also. I have recently separated from my wife. I found out she was having an affair with another man. Anyway for all intensive purposes I still love her and would like to try to get her back even after what she has done. We have a son together and that\'s another reason I would like to work things out. I\'ve been wearing APC and Lure around her when she picks up our son. Which is about every day during the week after she gets off work. I haven\'t seen much yet, but I\'m hopeful. I\'m waiting for my order of PI to come in so I can try it out too.

I would like to have the opinions of some women too. Weather it from some of the members here or some of your wives or girlfriends. Ask any questions you want and I\'ll try to anwser them the best I can. I need all the help I can get. One of the things I would like to know is what kind of colognes to women like?

Again I need all the help I can get. images/icons/crazy.gif

Thanks in Advance,
Bull

[jose]

I think you\'re counting on Pheromones to fix your marriage and I think it won\'t work. If she had an affair with another man than it goes deeper than that. Has she given you any indication she wants to get back together? If no, then I think it\'s time to move on I know it will be hard but that\'s the way life is.
http://home.earthlink.net/~joselg (\"http://home.earthlink.net/~joselg\")

[rjm]

Dude, I *AM* sorry to hear about your marriage. I\'m not going to try to tell you that pheros are going to pull everything back together. They\'ll probably have little-to-no effect on the relationship. As you may have read, if someone has you classified a certain way, it may take quite a bit to make changes -- if it ever does override the extant opinion.

What they *MAY* help with, would be to get her in a better mood and be more open. This is a *STARTING POINT*.

What I would do, is to try to get her to tell you WHY she had the affair. She married you and had your kids, so there WAS a good relationship. What changed? A long sit-down conversation is needed, so you can talk about the reasons things went the way they did.

MAYBE you can get her to go to marriage counseling with you. Maybe the two of you need to talk to a psychiatrist, though if you belong to a Church, I\'d go to the Priest/Rabbi/Minister/etc., first.

If you can get a sitter for the kids, try to get her to go out to dinner. I\'m not talking about some fancy restaurant to impress her, but someplace that\'s open late enough to sit and talk.

Whatever the reason was for the relationship, it\'s entirely possible that it\'s dead. I know that sucks to hear, but it\'s possible. If that IS the case, then you can expect to go through the funk. You won\'t trust ANYone in your intimate world, and you\'re gonna go through all the emotions.

You\'re working up a big hill here, and there are sure-as-hell no guarantees, but that DOES NOT mean \"Don\'t try.\"

I hope all works out the best for you. Keep us posted.

Randy

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Hi Bull.

My marriage also died when I discovered my wife was having an affair.

If your wife shows no interest in saving the marriage by going to a marriage counselor then consider the marriage dead and move one.

Try to get the best divorce attorney that you can afford to defend your rights as a father. But do not let your anger get the best of you because the only one you will be hurting is your child because he loves you and your wife(his mother). Let your lawyer know that this is very important to you so that when custody arrangements are being formulated in family court, you will not be seen as a vengeful spouse with no regards to your childs welfare.

Also let your wife know that despite her betrayal and the pain she has caused you, that you are not a man that will try to destroy her in divorce and family court. But let her know that if she is out for blood that you will not only defend yourself but will not hesitate in attacking her, legally of course, in kind. In other words, let her know that the ball is in her court.

Nobody can guarantee you what the outcome will be for you in divorce and family court, but in my experience (and the experience of other men I met)that when both parties behave like adults with only the best interest of their children in mind, the healing starts much faster for both and the damage to the children is minimum.

One last thing, there is an old saying that says that the best revenge is to live well and from my experience it certainly has been true. After my divorce was finalized, my ex-wife\'s lover started being abusive to her and demanding that she be in constant touch with him or else she\'d be sorry. In fact he started physically asaulting her that she became so terrified of him that for the sake of my daughters wellbeign I intervened by filing a police report against him that landed his sorry ass in jail. My ex was very grateful for my help that she and I are now very good friends.

Sorry for the long winded tale but I hope that at least by sharing it with you, I can make you see what a possible outcome to your situation may be.

Good luck and God Bless you and your son in these trying times, Bull.

Joe images/icons/cool.gif

[a.k.a.]

Bull,
I was in a similar situation (no children though). I didn\'t discover pheros until about a year after the divorce had been finalized, and by that time my ex and I had settled into \"just friends\". She did seem to show more interest in me, and being more touchy, when I wore APC (3-4 dabs). But she was pretty happy with the other guy, so I didn\'t try anything.

I hope you can save your marriage, if that\'s what you realy want.

Speaking from (bad) experience, I could have saved a whole lot of time, and avoided a whole lot of grief, if I\'d seen a counselor as soon as my wife walked out.

I\'d start with that, and then maybe tell your wife how helpful it is. Just drop a hint like, \"I wonder if we could have avoided this by getting some counseling.\" See how it goes from there.


PS An afair is not catastrophic in itself, but it brings up a lot of \"am I loved?\" and \"who can I trust?\" issues. This makes reconciliation difficult and can screw up many more relationships down the line.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Thanks guys for the words of encouragment. Like I said before it\'s hard for me to talk about things that are very personel and painful to me. I guess it\'s a guy thing. images/icons/smile.gif She was and is the only one that could get me to open up with what I was feeling at the time. I\'ve always held my emotions in untill I can\'t no more. Again I guess it\'s a guy thing. images/icons/smile.gif

I just keep getting mixed signals from her all the time. I don\'t know if it\'s mind games or what. Mainly she seems to use our son as an excuse to call and talk to me. When we meet to exchage our son she likes to talk sometimes. She will as me whats wrong if she senses I\'m depressed or in a bad mood. I guess that\'s why I started useing pheromones to see if it would give me and edge to where she would open up more. That seems to be the case somewhat, but I haven\'t seen a whole lot.

Again whatever help or advise is greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Bull

PS. Advise from women still wanted.

[rjm]

Bull,

Look at opening up this way -- None of us know each other; we\'re not real likely to be in the same line at the supermarket, or in the same elevator. Word of this isn\'t going to get spread around work, your church, etc., from any of US...

I can\'t say I empathize with you; I\'ve never been married, but I\'ve seen others\' marriages go away, so I DO have SOME understanding.

It sounds though, like she doesn\'t know what SHE wants, and unless / until she makes that decision, I doubt much progress will be made.

Good luck again...

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Thanks Randy. images/icons/tongue.gif

I do hope things work out ok. The problem I go through is that my son is around this guy of a night. Which does piss me off. Other thing is that I don\'t think she has realized that she could loss custody of our son. Anyway thanks again. It helps to get some of this off my chest.

Bull

[rjm]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif\">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bull:
Thanks Randy. images/icons/tongue.gif

I do hope things work out ok. The problem I go through is that my son is around this guy of a night.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don\'t think I understand that part... He spends nights with his mother? Legally, that means she has custody in PA; obviously I don\'t know about your area.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif\">quote:</font><HR>
Which does piss me off. Other thing is that I don\'t think she has realized that she could loss custody of our son. Anyway thanks again. It helps to get some of this off my chest.
Bull<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, if things DON\'T work out as you wish them to, this DOES help if you wish to make a stronger claim for the son.

It\'s always good to blow off some steam. This is one of life\'s big bitches...

[oscar]

Bull,

You should enable the Private Message option in your profile update.Some advice is better given privately.

Oscar
P.S.I\'ve noticed that even though I checked the option to be notified by E-mail of incoming private messages,it doesn\'t happen.
images/icons/crazy.gif

[ September 03, 2001: Message edited by: Wilde Oscar ]

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Thanks Oscar. I forgot to do that when I registered. It\'s done now.

Sorry Randy. I sould have been more clearer on the last post. I don\'t know if he stays the night or not. I do know he stays at least until 11:00 pm of a night some nights.

Bull

[Bruce]

Hello Bull,
I have never been thru a divorce (thank God), but I have been thru many breakups and betrayals before my currently very happy marriage (2 kids), so maybe I have some experience to draw from.
**Quick technical note for you and Oscar: The internal e-mail system of this forum software is still on the blink. This is a good push for me to get it fixed now. I will post here and elsewhere on the forum if there is any status change there. In the mean time, Bull, if you don\'t have one already, get a disposible e-mail account at yahoo or hotmail, go to your \"my profile\" section and use that address in your forum account. Next, check the box that will make that address available to anyone who wants it and/or include that e-mail address in the body of your posts. You can always trash the account if you get unwanted e-mail, but you should find that you will get some useful info by e-mail that you wouldn\'t get here in the board. Oscar is a good example.

Next, ditto everything that has been written so far. I won\'t waste time repeating it, but it is all excellent advice in my book. I would just add that keeping your own mental balence is very important for executing any of this advice. Anger and panic are your worst enemies, not your wife or her boyfriend. If you stay calm and strong, you will insure the best outcome. Nowadays in the US there are litterally thousands of resources at your finger tips that can help you with that project. Religion, counseling, yoga, jogging, diet, the gym, friends, relatives, community service, and on and on. Get involved, and use this apparent tragedy to help you find a new side of yourself you didn\'t know you had. I assume you are living alone now, with a lot (too much maybe at the moment) of time to think, and I would use as much as possible of that time for meditation or prayer or reading or whatever your beliefs will allow you. Your problems are going to be demanding center stage. For every minute you think about them, I would spend at least that much time working on your computer (the one on your shoulders) so that it can give you the best outcome.
Whatever you do, don\'t let this problem push you in the opposite direction (ie: disructive behaviors). As painful and confusing as this problem is, it is not in and of itself going to hurt you, but distructive escape routes from that pain (eg: heavy drinking, drugs, promiscuity etc) can hurt you, your child and wife very much. Don\'t do them. I repeat, don\'t do them. You may feel like you have the \"right\" to screw things up more than they are already, but you don\'t. You never do. Just take all your pain to God and see if he will cut you a deal, but don\'t pass it down the line.

In a nutshell: Take all the pain you think you can handle, and come back smiling for more. Play your own cards straight, even if others are not, and you will come out of this a new and better man. You may even get your wife back, but I wouldn\'t sell my soul for that outcome. If she seems like a basically good person, and she is willing to go to counseling with you, of course do it, but if not, I would go to counseling by myself.

The rest of the guys here, especially the divorcees have got all the nuts and bolts worked out for you here. I can\'t add much to that.

Good luck,
Bruce

[**DONOTDELETE**]

images/icons/crazy.gif It\'s amazing to see how many of us are traveling similar paths. I\'ve been separated for almost two years now. Bruce mentioned \"playing your cards straight\" and \"take the pain and come back smiling\"...it\'s the best advice anyone can give you.
I definitely did not want my marriage to end, but when it did I promised myself I\'d always take the high road and stand fast on moral ground. No matter what, I was not going to do anything to jeapardize my relationship with my two kids. Only recently have I locked away any hope of fixing things, but throughout all I have found that my ~wife~ has always seemed most interested in talking to me when I am feeling my most confident in being on my own! It\'s like she picks up on the fact that I\'m doing a shade better than okay and is drawn to that. In maintaining my confidence in front of her (even times when there wasn\'t a hint of it within me) I found that she gave up on trying to push my buttons and upset me. It was like she wanted me to get upset to justify her kicking me out but it wasn\'t working anymore!
This wasn\'t just a silly game. It was actually the way I earned her respect all over again by being a stronger person then she thought I was capable of being.
The pheromones have resulted in some interesting reactions from her, but nothing over the top. I find that she listens to me more face to face and defers to my opinions more often when we get together to exchange the kids then when we are on the phone.

So is your marriage going to be fixed? Not by pheromones...they may help make her open to talk though...Even that may not do it.

Keep in mind that women tend to justify there actions and decisions. Once talked into something, even if it\'s bad for them, they will do almost anything to validate it. I\'m cringing because I think it\'s Jeffries who said that a women will resist being bedded, but once bedded will justify and validate her actions. I know that my wife has tagged me as her personal landmark of where she hit a low point in her life (of her own accord) and sees going back to me as same as going back to that low point! Sometimes they\'re hard to understand!

The only other thing I can share with you is this... Say Nothing! I\'ve found that the less I talk and the more I just listen, interested or not, the more she offers to me, thinks of me, likes me, and keeps contacting me...as soon as I did some dumbass thing like pledge my undying love and commitment to our marital vows she\'d dissapear!

I hope some of this helps. Worry about you first because right now you\'re the only one who is going to take care of you. Grow strong, learn, see yourself as an individual, both the good and the bad. Once you do this you will feel good enough to start testing new paths for your life.... Even if that path is shared with your wife. This could end up being a learning and healing experience for both of you, letting you step away from the hot zone and look at it from the outside. Don\'t give up hope until you\'ve given it all you can and find you\'re still the only one hoping.

Good Luck.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Thanks again guys for the encourgement. I wonder sometimes why in the world after all I know about what has happened why I still care about her. I keep coming to the same conclusion. That being that I love her. I feel it in my heart and in my mind. I\'ve never been one to give up on something that I believe in and I don\'t intend on starting now.

Here the other day I met a nice young lady who is very attrative. I started to flirt with her like I use to do back before I got married. Well needless to say not much happened but I will see her again from the way she talked back. Only thing is that later I started feeling a little guilty about it. Is that natural? images/icons/crazy.gif Anyway maybe I might end up with a date before long. I\'m not looking for a one night stand mind you just a good time with someone. I guess I\'m a little worried about hurting them or getting them dragged into the middle of it.

Anyway, keep the advise coming and thanks again.

Bull

[Bruce]

Hi Bull,
I would tell this new lady about your situation and that you need to take things very slowly. Just do the friendship thing and wait and see what happens with your wife.
Bruce

[jose]

I have to disagree with Bruce, do not tell this woman about your situation. She will think you have a lot of baggage and move on to someone else. You don\'t have to feel guilty for flirting with this woman. Ask her out and have some fun for a change. If she knows already knows about the separation, then maybe you could have a friend with benefits images/icons/tongue.gif
http://home.earthlink.net/~joselg (\"http://home.earthlink.net/~joselg\")

[**DONOTDELETE**]

I had already thought about telling her about what has been going on if we do go out. Again like I said I\'m not looking for a one night stand just to have some fun. I\'m just worried about what may happen down the road. Mainly if I started having feeling for this person and she for me. With my luck my wife would try to come back in my life. I guess that\'s a bridge I\'ll have to cross when I come to it. Maybe I\'m a little scared. I\'ll get you posted on that.

I have recently just gone back to work after being on vacation for the past few weeks. I have been pheromones everyday now. I got a pretty good response from the women I work with. They seemed to be a little more friendly toward me. I guess the mones are working some.

Thanks again and keep the advise coming.

Bull images/icons/laugh.gif

[ September 04, 2001: Message edited by: Bull ]

[jose]

I\'m not saying this so you can get sex from this woman. On a first date you just don\'t tell your problems to a woman. She doesn\'t want to hear about you\'re separation or divorce from your wife. Maybe later down the road when she\'s comfortable with you(second date). Then again your wife might get jealous if she knew about you dating someone else images/icons/shocked.gif
http://home.earthlink.net/~joselg (\"http://home.earthlink.net/~joselg\")

[rjm]

I\'d have top agree about not telling the \"new girl\" right away. It MAY send the signal that you\'re looking for action \"in the interim.\" I\'d go with enjoying the company. Eventually, things will come out, and you can have the deeper discussion, but that would be AFTER she gets to know you... And you get to know HER. Hell, SHE may turn out to be possessed! images/icons/smile.gif
I do agree that it IS surprising how many are on the same path...

Still waiting for females\' opinions -- it would be nice to see really what they think, as opposed to what we think they think...

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Maybe your right about not telling her the whole story. Thing is I guess I\'m a hopeless romantic and want to be up front with her about things. I guess it\'s a way I think I could get her respect. It reminds me in a since of a saying that I heard once. \"GOD must love crazy people because he sure has made enough of them.\" images/icons/smile.gif

Thanks again.
Bull

[ September 05, 2001: Message edited by: Bull ]

[**DONOTDELETE**]

There is another thing to keep in mind Bull.

If you do meet the right woman down the road, you\'ll have to let her know that you have a child from your first marriage. If she truly loves you she\'ll stick with you during those hard times when your ex-wife may try to use your son to sabotage the relationship with your new lady.

Hopefully you won\'t have to go thru this bull (sorry, no pun intended) Bull images/icons/laugh.gif

God Bless you and your child Bull.

Joe

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Today I\'m a little depressed. Boy could I stand for things to go my way for a change. I feel like I\'m the one being punished for everything that has happened. It\'s very hard to come home to a empty house of a night. Well I\'m going to try to go out tonight and try to have some fun. The thing with the other women has reached a dead end. So I\'m back where I started from. I wish I had my son with me tonight to cheer me up. See yall later.

Bull

[a.k.a.]

Bull,
Ah, yes. The empty house syndrome. I can\'t remember which was most painful the overwhelming sense of emptiness, or the memories which seemed to haunt every houshold object.
I tried bars, coffeeshops, malls, bookstores, gyms, dojos, parks, slopes, trails... I\'d have to recomend avoid the bars, don\'t make a habit out of coffeeshops, malls or bookstores. But DO indulge in anything that builds up a sweat or gets you in contact with nature.
There are things to keep you distracted, which is OK in small doses. And there are things to refresh your spirit, which are essential.
Even a 30 minute walk around the park, is going to put you in a better mood than a whole night of drinking or shopping.
Also, friends are very important, if they\'re the kind that listen and understand; but, eventually, you\'re going to need some solitary moments of reflection.
Anyway. I\'ve been there, and I can asure you, it\'ll pass.
As far as things going your way... Sometimes they will, sometimes they won\'t. I\'m sure this is the way it\'s always been in your life. You\'re just a little more sensitive at the moment. The more you resolve to get through this and come out a better man, the less it\'ll matter how your day went.

[ September 06, 2001: Message edited by: a.k.a. ]

[Bruce]

Hi Bull,
Once my wife and I had a fight and she took our kid (we only had one at that time) and stayed at her parents house for 3 days. It was hell. I spent the whole time online contacting every prayer circle and psychic healing group I could find asking them to pray for my family and I. It seems to have helped; it helped keep me occupied for 3 days anyway.
Good luck and keep the faith!
Bruce

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Bull,

Sorry to hear about your day images/icons/frown.gif
But we\'re here for support. Sent you email to you can read it later.

To everyone else who responded back to you, images/icons/cool.gif I thought all of your post to Bull was so inspiring and wonderful. I haven\'t seen so many men that can be so supported with such kind words of support. You guys are great! All of your post touched my heart. Nice to know there are men who can support and bond with other men in a crisis. I knew there were still some good men out in the world somewhere lol images/icons/tongue.gif

Take care Bull and I hope you have a wonderful evening.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Hi guys! I feel better today after last night. Let me tell you about what happened. I went to a local Hooters Resturant here to get dinner. I haven\'t been to one in a long time. Most of the time that I have been it\'s been by myself and last night on different.

After I got there and was seated I was just enjoying the enviroment. The waitress I had of coarse was very beatiful. After ordering and eating I had something happen that has never happened to me ever happen. My waitress came over an sat down with me and started up a conversation. I had been flirting with her a little but not a lot before this. Anyway we talked for several minutes before she got up and had to do her rounds. Afterward she came back and talked to me some more. I must say that I was in heaven. It really made me feel good. We talked about everything. I learned a little about her and she about me. Only thing was that she was married. We even talked briefly about my problem but not long. Yes I was wearing the mones, but I don\'t know if that had anything to do with it or not. I even told her that of all the times I had been to a Hooters that none of the other waitresses had ever done what she was doing. We had a very pleasent conversation together and I even hated to leave. I guess I made a new friend. Anyway I did tell her I was going to come back sometime when I left and I intend to keep good on that. I had the biggest smile on my face all the way home just thinking about. I did start to feel a little guilty about it, but after what\'s happened it didn\'t last long this time. I look forward to going back and seeing her again. Anyway I thought I would share this with you today. Thanks again.

Bull images/icons/laugh.gif

[rjm]

Congrats, Bull!

You\'re on the first rung of the ladder! TALKING is a good sign!

I was talking to the female bartender at my haunt last night -- actually wound up giving her a lift home. I\'ve met her husband, and no, nothing\'s going to happen, but it\'s good to have someone to talk to. Maybe it was the pheros, but I can\'t tell, as we have a couple of things in common, and we have the same stresses with our families, but it was nice.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Thanks JacQueLine. I sent you a private message too. Again I can always use the advise of the women here.

Bull

[Bruce]

Hi JaQue,
Wow! Great post there. I am really inspired; no kidding. In fact, I\'m going to quit working right now and go talk to my wife. Actually, in my case, I think I talk too much (she says she likes it though). I\'m a blabber-mouth; may dad was too. I remember when I was in high school, my step mother used to tell me that my dad would follow her around the house trying desperately to keep a conversation going while she was doing stuff around the house. I\'m not that bad, but almost.. ;-)
Cheers and thanks for the great post,
Bruce

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Hi Bull,

I\'m sorry to hear about your marriage.

I\'m just giving my 2 cents worth from a woman\'s point of view.

Some where in the post you mentioned:

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif\">quote:</font><HR>I just keep getting mixed signals from her all the time. I don\'t know if it\'s mind games or what. Mainly she seems to use our son as an excuse to call and talk to me. When we meet to exchage our son she likes to talk sometimes. She will as me whats wrong if she senses I\'m depressed or in a bad mood. I guess that\'s why I started useing pheromones to see if it would give me and edge to where she would open up more. That seems to be the case somewhat, but I haven\'t seen a whole lot.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


When a woman makes excuses to come and see an \'ex\', I think there may still be some old feelings left but pride or guilt gets in the way of getting back together.

I wonder if you\'ve tried opening up to her?

She may be just waiting to hear the words from you that you\'ve forgiven her and you\'re willing to start over again.

Pheromones alone just won\'t do. She needs to hear you SAY the words.

Have you tried?

I\'m married with 2 kids. Marriage changes everything. Courtship dies. Everything becomes mundane. You wake up to see the same person every morning, you go to work, and come home to that same person.

Somewhere along the line, communication lines break up. You start thinking you know everything there is to know about the other person and just \'assume\' everything is OK.

My husband is out of the house 12-16 hours a day. He goes to work while the kids are sleeping and comes home after they\'ve gone to bed.

Now I\'m just hanging on in here trying to keep my patience. The problem with him is he doesn\'t like to \"talk\" ( I guess a lot of men don\'t, especially after marriage) and would rather watch TV or read the paper. When that happens, it gets kinda lonely. It\'s a good thing I have my 2 girls to keep me company.

I wouldn\'t dare say that talking and opening up to your wife would get you back together again but I believe it would clear the air and I don\'t think there\'s much at risk, except your pride.

If I were to put myself in your wife\'s shoes, I think the only thing holding me back from getting back together is my pride - (\"I\'m not going to say I\'m sorry, it\'s all HIS fault that it came to this\") - and shame - (\"I\'ve done a terrible thing. He\'ll never ever forgive me. I might as well pack-up and leave\").

I hope that my thoughts have enlightened you in some way.

Regards,

~JacQueLine~

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Hi Bruce,

It\'s nice when you can actually \"talk\" to your spouse about things, other than the kids, the bills or the mortgage.

You know, the type of idle chatter when you first became friends, and then lovers.....but then somewhere after the honeymoon and a couple of kids, it\'s hard to have that kind of \"talk\" anymore.

The only time my husband starts that kind of \'idle chatter\' is when he\'s had a little too much to drink. I kinda like him that way.

Regards,

~JacQueLine~ images/icons/crazy.gif