Soap Box

[Wolfe]

Well, i\'ve gotten way to many PM\'s to try to answer them all with the same reason(s), so i\'ll try to clear up my decision in one post to everyone . Was many reasons for the decision i made and i\'d like to express them all here.

First off i think Bruce was wrong in moving ginger(even if it HAD degraded into a \'pissing\' contest) and the reason i feel that way is simply. Communications play a hugh part in each and every persons daily lifes, now that means the good, the bad and the ugly. You know, and I know, life isnt a \'Bed of Roses\' and the only way that we can grow as a human race is to face up to the problems that have been placed on us by our \"elders\" and the rest of society and the only way that\'s gonna happen is to air it all out, rather it hurts or not. Society has many problems, and true, we can\'t solve them all here, or even probably in our life times. This does NOT mean we should bury our heads in the sand and hope it goes away or wait for someone else to come along and do it, it will not happen. Only way it\'s gonna happen is for each and every person to take it upon themselves to take the steps they must to enact changes in society-starting with themselves.

Some other things i\'ve noticed is how some seem to think that the forum isn\'t as \'\'informative\" as it once was, well, how can it be??. This forum has been around couble of years, not to many topics on the differant products (and how to use them) hasn\'t already been discussed a thousand times before, and to many, that gets old fast. Come on lets face it, everything discussed here is purely speculation at best anyways. Look, manufacturing process\'s precludes \'exact\' science to come from this( no roll top is gonna be the same tightness-hence dispence a diff amount- even the pressure you use it at will make a diff each time you use it)...(no sprayer is gonna deliver the same amount of product per spray-even time after time from SAME sprayer-not to mention the 1000\'s of diff models of spayers that ALL will deliver differantly), then taken into account that EVERY single person is diff, what works for me is NOT gonna work for 1/2 the others that read what i posted. (thier personal chemistry precudes that from happening.)
Now with having said that, it IS important to share as much info as possiable with each other as it\'s important to me, and to you that we understand as much about what we or doing as possiable to try iur very best to \'cut\' corners and MAKE it happen for us as quicky and cheaply as possiable. To let a few \'Bad Apples\" spoil it is something i can\'t understand. To let them do so is degrading and cowardly. Not to mention a topic that should have meant much to everyone will now languish .

But what the hell do i know?..i\'m just a dumbass that nobody can understand anyways.

\"Bury your head in the sand, someone will come along and shoot your ass off\"
[i] Wolfe

Later

[belgareth]

Wolfe:

I agree with you that the post should not have been moved, communications is important to the art of attraction. Bruce\'s point is well taken in that the thread turned into a pissing contest. The bottom line is that Bruce is the final arbiter. Somebody has to be and it his his forum.

I see that the thread has not been ignored, but is getting plenty of attention. You shouldn\'t let a single decision that you do not like inhibit you valuable input.

[Wolfe]

Really think so?..well, maybe so. However alot of good it does if no one is around to use it, no matter who \'owns\' it.
what he did i consider a form of censorship and though, as you pointed out, it\'s \'his\' forum to do what he wants with it doesn\'t mean i have to approve of it.
Not to mention that all it does is teach ppl like jos and tougne that they have the power to destroy any thread they want to simple by starting crap.
all i have to say on this subject any more.

[belgareth]

**Not to mention that all it does is teach ppl like jos and tougne that they have the power to destroy any thread they want to simple by starting crap.**

And you are going to let them get away with it? They win, my friend!

I would agree it was censorship if he deleted it. Rather, he kept it but changed its location. Bruce even left in all the hyperbole that didn\'t relate to the topic but was truly trash.

[upsidedown]

Fortunately, the thread doesn\'t seem to have lost any momentum through the move. It still seems to have a life of it\'s own!.

One thing the move did though was prevented some of the guys from having a reason to complain about it being off topic. They can\'t do that any more. If they come on to attack now, they\'ll have to find some other reason to do so.

[belgareth]

Lets be honest here. Communication is critical to the science of attraction. It is far more relevent than threads about the smell of baby powder or swing camp. Some people with an axe to grind simply used it as an excuse to attack somebody.

If you go back and read the thread, the person making most of the wild accusations sounded irrational. Maybe he/she should lighten up on the none.

[upsidedown]

I agree with you Belgareth. I also feel the thread was totally beneficial in this whole area of attraction. If those guys don\'t care squat about how women think or feel, then why do they want to use pheromones to get women? Do they just want a brainless bimbo to keep her mouth shut? If all they want pheromones for is to get something to help them relieve their physical urges, then they might as well buy one of those inflatable dolls to do that. The doll won\'t ever say a word, will never ask them to express their feelings, and you\'ll never have to buy them dinner!

Me, I want the whole package with a woman. I want an intelligent person that I can have a conversation with and understand. And, if we have differences in the way we think, feel, interact, and communicate...then I\'d like to understand their perspective. So, I feel the talk about communication is invaluable in helping to fully get where you want to go.....it goes hand in hand with the pheromones.

[belgareth]

As much as I may wish it were different, I can\'t spend my whole life in bed. Terrible thing. /ubbthreads/images/icons/wink.gif It is nice to be able to talk to somebody who can respond intellegently and even better when you have learned enough to understand what they really need.

Sometimes I think the attitude we see is a product of our narcisistic society: \"I want my needs filled now and I don\'t care about anybody elses needs!\" How much more fulfilling when you can really and honestly make somebody else happy along with yourself.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

I was upset that the thread got moved, too, even though I said at the outset it was probably going to get moved. I posted it in the main forum because I wanted to attract readers and some of the best posters here don\'t visit Off Topics. I thought if anyone was interested in the subject, that would give them the opportunity to see it, at least, and they could pursue the thread after it got moved. Which is what happened. And then the thread went squirelly and it took forever to wrestle it back on track, and when it did get moved, I was mad, too, and fussed at Bruce. You know what? We\'re mad for two reasons. One -- the thread is not Off Topic, it\'s about communication, so to put it in Off Topic is to bury it. Yes. On the other hand, where else are you going to put it?? It can\'t stay up there for the newbies to stumble upon and think wtf??? Right? The second reason we\'re mad is because we think its being moved was caused by Joshua and we don\'t want Joshua to have won. /ubbthreads/images/icons/laugh.gif Bruce is trying to run a business here. The newbies come to the main forum to ask basic pheromone questions, not to read relationship issue threads. Their questions are not so interesting sometimes to those of us who\'ve figured out our best mix and now want to talk about other things. But the newbie questions are the purpose of the forum, and helping newbies and prospective newbies use their \'mones is the main purpose of the forum. The main forum is also where the experienced users who like to play with the products and talk mix-master stuff can now go and not have to wade through related or semi-related issues. Don\'t be mad at Bruce. In any case, it\'s his forum and he can do what he wants; but there really wasn\'t anything else he could do. Maybe there could be a Relationship Issues thread. Or maybe we should be happy with what we\'ve got. /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif Wolfie, sweetheart, stay or go as makes you happy. I\'m sure we\'d all hate to see you go. But if you threaten to leave every time you get mad, you\'re gonna be threatening to leave about twice a week. ... and the other thing is, if you want to talk about anything serious here, or if your approach is personal and subjective, whatever your subject, take a deep breath before you start, because flak\'s comin\' atcha, no question, and you\'ve got to be willing to either deal with the fall out or let it ride. If I\'m still standing after all that, then you can stay here and come stand with me, you took a lot of insult, too, and you aquitted yourself nicely. Mantra: Sticks and stones, sticks and stones, sticks and stones ... don\'t let the bastards grind you down.

[Bruce]

FTR,
Appreciate your understanding of my concerns. There is room to negotiate some of these points. Breaking the Off Topic area up and possibly having volunteers monitor the new sections might be a way to go. EG: create a \"Humor\" forum and ask our beloved comic king Mobley if he would want to be in charge of it. Then maybe an \"Issues\" section. I really can\'t think of what else to call it, but when there is trouble brewing, hurt feelings, heated debate (???) it could go in there. I have always felt like differences can get settled privately, but as the board admin, I\'m not really in a position to say if that works normally or not. In any case, I am of the mind that insults, sarcasm and other forms of attack-communication do not belong mixed in where non-combative types are trying to have a peaceful exchange of information. I know I did get involved in a scrap recently, that I am sorry about, but in general I am pretty good about that. I also realize that everyone is not going to agree all the time, and that is of course a good thing, but if you take a look around the forum, you can see that there are some folks who are very good about expressing their differences of oppinion and others who have a way of saying it that has \"nice try Bozo\" written between the lines. If this were a perfect world, I think we would all simply agree to follow the lead of the former and live in peace and harmony. In realtiy, that is not going to happen and in lew of kicking folks out of the forum or somebody spending a lot ot time following certain folks around with a Pooper Scooper (you can find them in your local pet supply shop), there are going to be hurt feelings popping up right in the middle of an otherwise peaceful discussion. Then the person who got shat upon will want to \"discuss it\", and yada yada what the heck are we supposed to do about that? Suggestions?
Bruce