Does rone cause water and fat gain????

[SonnyBlack]

Ive noticed that everytime I wear AE/m I tend to start retaining water right away mostly around my face. Its very weird because it doesnt happen with PI/m or the edge...just with AE/m. Now ive read most of the posts from JVKohl and ive noticed that he wrote something about RONE causing LH levels to rise in men or something like that and it got me wondering whether the RONE in AE/m is causing a quick testosterone surge and ultimately converting into estrogen??I mean the puffy face is one of the main things that too much estrogen in males causes. Id like to know just what could be causing this???Also since ive been wearing AE/m ive gone up in weight noticeably all while eating the same way and exercising the same way Ive always done. I know there has to be a relationship between the mones in AE and these changes that ive noticed. Will taking an anti aromatase such as Arimidex solve this problem in theory???What do you all think about all of this???

[**DONOTDELETE**]

That\'s weird because you\'re the only person I\'ve seen since I\'ve been on this forum who reported changes in weight -- except that I LOST five pounds out of nowhere, with no effort.

[SonnyBlack]

yes i was wondering since androsterone is a steroid if it can cause estrogen surges in males because of the whole testosterone to estrogen conversion....

[MaxiMog]

I\'m not sure what this whole \"testosterone to estrogen conversion\" is about (if someone would please inform me. Tnx!). All I know is that Testosterone simply HAS to be converted in order to work for men.

Main female hormone = estrogen
Main male hormone = estrogen gained by converting testosterone.

In other words, there are two types of estrogen active in males: one from converting testosterone, the other one is the same type that is found way more abundant women.

So there\'s no need to worry about testosterone converting to estrogen as it simply HAS TO HAPPEN! So if -rone raises testosterone, it will raise estrogen, but the type of estrogen is different from the typical female estrogen.

[krtel]

Interesting.... I\'ve worn SoE and AE before on seperate occasions and experienced no such puffiness.

- Krish

[Wolfe]

nor have i and that my main stuff /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif

[DrSmellThis]

Potassium and choline/inositol is simpler.

Indolplex might help metabolize the estrogen, and has a fringe benefit of containing a pheromone..

[SonnyBlack]

but does the rone raise testosterone levels and ultimately end up raising estrogen levels??I ask this because everytime I wear AE/m my face begins to puff up and I begin sweating...i mean you can see my face before I put any AE and after and it is a big difference....is there anything else that could be causing this???I mean I love this product but i hate the way it makes me look...what can i do????

[belgareth]

Possibly some kind of an allergic reaction? There has been a couple questions about that in the past. I don\'t see why not, some people are allergic to their own bodily secretions.

[Wolfe]

i was gonna say the same thing(allergic), might not have a thing to do with the -nol/-rone, do you have other product with those -mones in them? if so do they cause same reaction? if not then something in the AE besides the -mones causes it. Have you tryed SoE?

[oscar]

belgareth,

An allergic reaction seems a reasonable conclusion considering puffiness and sweating. And it may not even be the androgens that are causing the reaction. It could be as simple as Sonny being allergic to one of the components of the fragrance base.

Trying the old version of AE ( IF still available, ask Bruce) would be a way to verify this or rule it out.
This couldn\'t account for weight fluctuation though. But I still think it\'s worth a shot. Perhaps the weight gain was just coincidental.

Oscar /ubbthreads/images/icons/wink.gif

[oscar]

Wolfe,

Looks like we were thinking along the same lines at the same time. Good point about SOE too. AE/m and SOE have very similar Rone concentrations in terms of total phero content.

Oscar /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif

[Wolfe]

that was my thought oscar, thats why i asked if he\'d used any SoE, could be a reaction to one of the EO\'s in it.

[SonnyBlack]

ive used SOE as well and while it also puffs my face a bit its nothing like what wearing AE/m does to me. By the way,,iI wear the old scented version (soapy smell) of AE/m. I hate the fact that it seems to do this for me since its one of my favorite products...is there any way that the rone or the nol could be upping my testosterone (quick surges) and therefore leaving me open to estrogen risings as well??Isnt there any documentation that these 2 mones (nol and rone) create a rise in LH and consequently a rise in testosterone as well???I mean arent these steroids after all???I mean its weird because I gave up using AE/m for like a month now and my face seems to look alot thinnner (girlfriend even told me this past weekend)and i seem to be carrying less weight....what do you all think???

[SonnyBlack]

bump for some more thoughts on this...as it is very real..i am not imagining it like that guy Trial....

[ShyGuy]

SonnyBlack: Sorry to bring up an old topic, but I came across this old thread, and i\'m wondering if you have given this anymore thought? Did you ever find out if it was the -rone that caused your face to get puffy?

It might be my imagination, but looking in the mirror, it looks like my face is a bit puffy. (maybe a bit swollen, especially around the cheeks) I have been using AE and SOE for a while, so that might be what caused it.

Has anyone given this more thought?

[SonnyBlack]

ive always maintained that it was the something in ALter Ego that does this to me. Even today I cant wear it without it making my face (my body bloats up as well)look puffy a couple of hours after application. I really do hate this though since I feel terrific on Alter Ego...better than any other mone. But it did make me gain a bit of weight when I was using it last semester..I dropped the weight already (thank god) but only after I stopped using the AE/m. I have a hunch that something in the alter ego (maybe rone, nol)makes your testosterone levels rise after (hence the good feeling you get while wearing it) but due to aromatization it also causes your estrogen levels to rise as well, making your face (as well as chest and estrogen related areas) puff up and look swelled (water retention big time). I even asked Mr. JVKohl about this via email and he said that he really had no idea and wasnt familiar with this product. Im almost sure that it was the alter ego that caused me to gain that weight before since Ive always eaten and worked out the same throughout...I really wish someone would look into this as I loooove Alter Ego and would love to be able to wear it without complications...

[ShyGuy]

Ok, thanks. It\'s a bit scary if it makes my testosterone (and estrogen) levels rise. My testosterone levels are already high, and I don\'t think I need more estrogen /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

So you don\'t know if it is the -nol or the -rone? Too bad, if it was the -rone I could just stop using AE and SOE and just get some products with -none and -nol (like maybe pheromax... I have already ordered a bottle of Attraction)

Of course, it might be in my mind or something.

Any advice on what to do? Do you stay away from -rone or -nol products?

[SonnyBlack]

anybody else ever have some experiences like this??/does anybody know if these products alter our hormone levels or not??Ive always been curious about this and have never found or gotten a straight answer from anyone....

[Tantalus747]

Unless you\'ve got some sort of wierd personal sensitivity to -rone, it doesn\'t make sense that the effects you\'re experiencing are from increased test levels. To cause the side effects you\'re describing, it would have to be a significant increase.

Did you experience any increase in acne? What about an increase in muscle mass or aggression? To raise test enough to cause the sides you describe, I\'d at least expect an increase in acne.

Did you notice any development or increase in gynecomastia (a.k.a. b**ch tits or gyno)? That would likely be caused by a significant estrogen increase.

If you answer no to the above questions, your likely culprit is an allergic reaction. You could try CS rone & see what happens, but it\'s possible you\'re reacting to the rone & not another additive.

[DrSmellThis]

Process of elimination. Probably something simple and avoidable. Let us know what you figure out.

[ShyGuy]

Tantalus747 : was this question to me or SonnyBlack? I\'ll answer it anyway...

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Did you experience any increase in acne?

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I \'might\' have. But it\'s difficult to tell, since I allready have a problem with acne, and really sensitive skin (I get reactions to some shaving gels, aftershave lotions and stuff)

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Did you notice any development or increase in gynecomastia (a.k.a. b**ch tits or gyno)? That would likely be caused by a significant estrogen increase.

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

I have no idea what \'gyno\' means, but i think I undestand what \'bitch tits\' mean /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif But it\'s difficult to tell since I\'m not that well trained (But I have started to work out) Either way, it can\'t have been a big reaction, or I would have noticed it.

[ShyGuy]

Does anyone think this could be dangerous? I mean, if it messes with hormone levels, that can\'t bee good for you right? I don\'t know if I\'ll ever dare to put on AE again.

[Cloud9]

We produce pheromones naturally anyway from our bodies. An extra external Pheromone source isn\'t going to screw up our endocrine/hormone system. We are around people all the time that produce pheromones. In order to do this you would need to ingest something like legal or illegal steroids without an estrogen binder/blocker. I\'m sure Anone may increase testosterone levels slightly, but this is a positive thing, even in women. Copulins might be the only thing to worry about if you are wearing it everyday, but only if the testosterone boost in us guys aromatizes into estrogen.

[Tantalus747]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Does anyone think this could be dangerous? I mean, if it messes with hormone levels, that can\'t bee good for you right? I don\'t know if I\'ll ever dare to put on AE again.

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

I was actually intending the questions for Sonny since his sides appear to have been worse. However, you\'re welcome to pitch in. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Still waiting to hear from Sonny, but I doubt whatever you\'re experiencing is a result of -rone.

But hey, if you\'re not going to use your AE anymore, send it to me. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

[ShyGuy]

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But hey, if you\'re not going to use your AE anymore, send it to me. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

Well, I think I\'ll rather send it back to Bruce and swap it for something else... Can\'t waste money when you are a poor student, you know /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Phantom]

lol, you actually think these products are dangerous? The only way it can cause these sideeffects is if they seep in somehow through your skin and into your bloodstream /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif

[ShyGuy]

Steroids can be absorbed through your skin can\'t they? I mean there are lots of medical lotions/creams that are absorbed through the skin. But if that\'s the problem, then applying to clothing could solve the problem I guess.

[Phantom]

That is true but they usualy use a carrier to help the substances penatrate the skin.

[ShyGuy]

But if a product makes your face puffy, then it is clearly having an effect on your body, and I\'m just wondering if that can be dangerous. Like making you grow breasts or making you loose your hair... Could that happen?

[Phantom]

Whoever\'s having that problem should try out an overthecounter anti-histamine to see if it elimanates the problem, and if so that means it was just an allergic reaction.

[marv14yag]

I think it\'s simply a reaction the alcohol in it. Plain and simple, nothing to do with the pheromones.

My brother is allergic to alcohol (kind you use for to clean cut skin, etc) and especially spray deodorant will burn REALLY BAD and cause allergic reactions and stuff.

The man ALREAY SAID.... He was ALLEGRIC TO aftershave lotions, etc......It\'s the alcohol.

Bart

[ShyGuy]

Never had any problems with deoderants or colognes though.

[marv14yag]

I \'might\' have. But it\'s difficult to tell, since I allready have a problem with acne, and really sensitive skin (I get reactions to some shaving gels, aftershave lotions and stuff)

Colognes and deodorants don\'t have as much alcohol in them.

Bart

[Cloud9]

They are called Transderamal legal steroids, and they have to be engineered to absorb from the skin into the blood stream. Perhaps someone is having an allergic reaction from the scent that covers the pheromones from skin contact, or something other than the pheromones in the product.

[ShyGuy]

I\'ll try to apply rone-based products to clothing for a while, and see if I notice anything then.

[Tantalus747]

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I\'ll try to apply rone-based products to clothing for a while, and see if I notice anything then.

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

The problem with this is if you\'re looking for side effects, you\'re probably going to find them.

[SonnyBlack]

sorry I havent replied to this guys ...Ill draw up a more detailed response by Monday to let you know exactly what happens when I put on AE/m and you guys can go from there..I am currently trying to finish my thesis for class...and I have not time at all...thanks for being patient and helpful fellow forum brothers and sisters...

[ShyGuy]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
The problem with this is if you\'re looking for side effects, you\'re probably going to find them.

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

Yeah, I probably wouldn\'t have noticed anything if I hadn\'t seen the post by SonnyBlack.