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krtel
11-19-2002, 07:49 PM
I have a question for all of you, and I know, that most of you are a lot older than I am, and have experienced this somewhere in your lifetime. Why is it that a girl would rather date a complete jackass over a nice guy? Why is it that nice guys are always left out while the jackass gets the girls? I swear, if I had a quarter for every girl that\'s told me \"Your really really sweet, it\'s not you, it\'s me...\" I\'d be a [censored] millionare. Whats it take for a nice guy to find himself a gf? I\'m one of those \"nice\" guy types, and the closest I can get with a girl is friends. I feel really ashamed to say this, but what the hell eh, not like it matters: I am 17 [censored] years old and haven\'t even had a gf yet. I\'m such a loser aren\'t I? If being a complete [censored] is what it takes then I guess I\'ll just have to be one now won\'t I? Bleh, i dunno. /ubbthreads/images/icons/frown.gif

sophie
11-19-2002, 08:10 PM
you\'re definitely not a loser....you\'re only 17!!! I never had a real boyfriend til I was 19!! I know, at 17 it seems like something should be happening, and it will. Personally I think late bloomers have an advantage, more GOOD years of good times with the opposite sex. Stay true to yourself, and eventually you will find HER. And you\'ll be glad you\'re you and not someone else. You may get a lot of different advice here, but I stand by my opinion. (others may have good advice too, incorporate it into your strategy).

Watcher
11-19-2002, 08:26 PM
I will give you the biological point of view.

Anone - bad boys give off plenty of it are aggressive and go and get things in life they are motivated they have high testostrone levels they are more likley to get into fights but have a better sex drive and chase the women
This is good for women as they are on a power trip and the nice guys just aint cut it, they are supplanting and to nice - young women hate this its to boring
They are always screeming they want more excitement bad boys provide this they have guts and will defend her also (probably more likley to cheat)

Up to the late 20s women want this especially today as they can put off childbirth longer and get the excitement before settling down.

If you are a nice guy you will be a late starter unless u work out at the very least bulk up as much as you can and then you will provide the psychical excitement they are after.

Sorry this has just been my experience from the late teens to now (22 now) and after having forgotten about sex for a few years and concentrated on learning making a pile of cash - using pheros to max advantage and working out im pulling them like crazy. But i didnt get anything for a year therefore you can see how hard it was im getting the rewards for now.

Also you can ignore this but concentrate on the less attractive types at least they are eager and will give you some experience and also stop chasing the more attractive ones for now this will take personal strength of course.

Ok enough ranting. Its all to do with bad boy natural phero sig vs nice guy phero sig. that drives all their sexual behaviour.

**DONOTDELETE**
11-19-2002, 08:30 PM
Good advice Sophie...be true to yourself. Be nice, eventually something will happen. Trust me - women see things in us that we have no idea about. You don\'t have to be a \"bad boy\" to get women. Maybe take a second look at the nerdy girl hiding out in the library. I dated a girl in highschool she told me the other girls called her the K-Mart kid because she didn\'t have all of the newest flashiest clothes. But when her clothes did come of she had the most amazing body. We had a really good time together and didn\'t have to worry about showing off to other people to keep our image - we just enjoyed our time together (naked or otherwise.)

Oh - and finding a girlfriend never gets easier - I\'m struggling right now so I feel your pain bro.

PHP 87
11-19-2002, 09:11 PM
The problem is that most nice guys are pushovers and have no backbone.

Not exactly attractive qualities.

Jerks get the girls because they have a \"Don\'t give a Damn\" attitude.

One can still be a nice guy and still get women, while at the same time not being a wimp.

belgareth
11-20-2002, 06:32 AM
Krtel:

From an old fart.

It does seem that way sometimes, doesn\'t it? What are your values? What, beside getting laid, do you want in a girlfriend? Are you looking for a superficial relationship or do you want somebody who will share your interests, who is fun to be around? Does she need to be a cheerleader or would that plain girl in your math class with the great sense of humor be more fun? It may not seem so at 17 but you really can\'t spend all your time in bed. Instead, try finding more than one lady who shares your interests and is fun to be around. No, it won\'t get you in bed next week. In the long run, it will get you in bed more often and you\'ll probably be a lot happier.

You can follow all the advice from places like fastseduction.com or work on making yourself into an Adonis. But is that really you? Are you willing to compromise yourself to become an image that somebody else says you should be? Listen to the women on the forum, they know what a woman is looking for in a man. Go back and read just the women\'s comment in the thread \"What a woman wants\".

I was raised to be a gentleman and have tried to practice it all my life. The end result is that I am married to a lovely, sweet woman with a good mind and a great sense of humor and I am a trusted small business owner. I may have missed a few opportunities to get laid over the years, but I think I got the best of it all.

Belgareth

jose
11-20-2002, 06:44 AM
Bad boys are more exciting and assertive to women. While nice guys are boring predictable, too needy at times. Subconsciously(and maybe Watcher agrees with this)women are looking for a dominant male type for their genes to pass along to their children. This probably goes back to the caveman days, so a passive guy won\'t cut it.

belgareth
11-20-2002, 06:57 AM
Why do you have to be passive to be a nice guy?

jose
11-20-2002, 07:09 AM
Passive is just one trait in the nice guy syndrome that some women are not into. Being a gentleman today is not the COOL thing to do with today\'s teenagers. Each generation is different with their own values.

**DONOTDELETE**
11-20-2002, 07:13 AM
egg-zactly. I\'m nice (a gentleman) but I am not a pushover. I will bend a little, but don\'t push me too far /ubbthreads/images/icons/wink.gif

belgareth
11-20-2002, 07:24 AM
Anybody who knows me would laugh to hear me called passive. However, I treat a lady like a lady. Displaying good manners is never wrong. It\'s more a sign of personal power and self assurance.

If the female does not like being treated like a lady, then she is probably not the type I would want in my life.

jose
11-20-2002, 08:02 AM
Maybe passive isn\'t the right word how about wimp or whuss.lol

belgareth
11-20-2002, 08:21 AM
Sure, cool. If you want to believe that, go right ahead. Everybody is entitled to their delusions.

jose
11-20-2002, 09:05 AM
It\'s not a delusion I\'ve seen it myself and I\'ve been \"the nice guy\" until I realized it was getting me nowhere with women. The cocky and funny routine has worked for me very well with women, I haven\'t had the \"lets be friends\" speech since.

krtel
11-20-2002, 10:21 AM
Hey, well, thanks for the words of inspiration, but to answer your question, getting laid is on the bottom of things I would want outta gf. I would like someone spend time with, talk to, do things together, have fun, work together, etc. You know, I don\'t want a one night stand or anything like that, IMO it is not for me. I want a \"long term\" relationship. I\'m just weird like that.

belgareth
11-20-2002, 11:17 AM
That\'s a good answer.

Be who and what you are. Approach women on an equals basis. If they abuse your generosity you can always avoid them in the future.

A hint: Girls your age are just as confused and nervous as you are. Respect that by relaxing and having a good time.

**DONOTDELETE**
11-20-2002, 02:18 PM
krtel,
the best site i have found for teens like us is the sosuave.com forum.
Fastseduction patterning simply isn\'t very effective for high school girls as they most likely havn\'t experienced the feelings your trying to create in them yet.
read the \'highschool bible\' at the sosuave forum.
just be careful to not mention things about pheromones as they are non-believers lol.

krtel
11-20-2002, 07:00 PM
Thanks sophie for the kind words of inspiration. /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif

krtel
11-20-2002, 07:01 PM
I don\'t understand what you mean when you say that nice guys don\'t have a backbone?

PHP 87
11-20-2002, 07:48 PM
SImple. Most \"Nice Guys\" are too afraid to be assertive and will let women walk all over them just because they have what the Nice Guy wants.

Sometimes it\'s obvious, sometimes it\'s not.


I have a friend who takes girls out for coffee and asks \"Do you want to sit over there?\" instead of saying \"Let\'s sit over there\"

Watcher
11-20-2002, 08:38 PM
Remember most women are passive and need the guy to be aggressive, impregnate her and take the role (shes only providing the body to carry the offspring - in a biological sense) therefore she needs attention provision protection communications strength money support intelligence leadership and all sorts of things.

Most nice guys are passive because they sometimes dont have these qualities and have low self esteem and play the game to get attention from the females as they take and dont give attention because they feel insecure aggressive towards other males and play this nice guy act in the impossible hope to find another strong female to lead them around (unless shes very musculine, a transexual or gay *another guy*) it aint gunna happen.

Then to protect their ego and not to admit to themselves and others they blame the women for not being interested in nice guys.

Ok ive been guilty of this in the past waffling on about women being bitches - its just an attention seeking game they play to attract men who are aggressive, nasty, bad boy types to take care of them its the natural way regardless of feminism which has just given them more of a balance in non-sexual areas and more freedom + technological improvements allowed this to happen - labour saving devices and conception to name a few.

**DONOTDELETE**
11-20-2002, 11:55 PM
interesting. I may have to let my brain chew on this for a while before I write a real response. I\'m mulling over past relationships and the gears are grinding.
Here\'s a question - what about the \"lost puppy syndrome\"? EG: Using a woman\'s natural maternal instincts by playing the \"hurt\" and letting her make you feel better? Women love to have someone to take care of as much as we love to fix stuff. Of course it doesn\'t make a lasting relationship but it has worked for me in the past. (on occasion)

belgareth
11-21-2002, 06:48 AM
Ok, I\'ll grant that some women can be bitches, just as some men can be jackasses. Some men can be wimps and some women can be over-assertive. This is news? For the most part, you are over-generalizing based on an extremely small sample with a dearth of real world experience.

The ability to behave as a gentleman is based on self assurance and a clear understanding of one\'s personal strength. The over-assertive male who belitles female is not far from the wife beater whose ego is so tiny that he must demean and hurt others to show how big he really is. It\'s also the attitude of the rapist.

To call somebody like me a wimp or to suggest a small ego is an error. Because we choose to treat a lady like a lady does not in any way show weakness. From my perspective, those guys who insist on considering all females inferior or incapable of an equals relationship are only showing their own gross insecurity.

I can show courtesy to others because I am very sure of who I am, my personal strength and abilities. And just for the record, I have an ego roughly the size of Detroit. It would be impossible to successfully run my own business otherwise.

**DONOTDELETE**
11-21-2002, 01:05 PM
Belgareth, those are beautiful posts you wrote. I\'m glad you\'re here.

**DONOTDELETE**
11-21-2002, 01:25 PM
yeah - good post. I use the golden rule. treat others as I would like to be treated. of course I use reverse karma too - if it comes around dammit it\'s my responsibility, it\'s my duty, it\'s my god given right to send it back around /ubbthreads/images/icons/tongue.gif (just kidding)
I treat people fairly, and with kindness, but if you f*ck with me you will have a world of hurt coming down on you. I\'m slim, but I\'m scrappy dammit.

belgareth
11-21-2002, 01:36 PM
Thank you both

**DONOTDELETE**
11-21-2002, 02:13 PM
Spoken like a true scrapper of a fire sign, Aries m\' boy! /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif

Watcher
11-22-2002, 12:06 AM
True on the critisicm, the thing in australia is a culture where women are bitches to men and make them run in circles (maybe different in america) but the culture seems widespread.

Im really trying to get further discussion going as i just seem to get the bitches mostly and it gets annoying and frustrating at times.

belgareth
11-22-2002, 05:40 AM
If they are being bitches, walk away from them, it\'s a matter of self respect. If they can\'t show a certain level of courtesy, I have no use for them.

Where are you going to meet women? Bars? I do not consider that to be the best place, there\'s too much competition that leads to too many games. The best women I met when I was in the game were in libraries and museums or through my work. That last won\'t work for everybody but somebody doing field work has a whole world to choose from.

My wife was introduced to me by a six year old kid. You just never know.

**DONOTDELETE**
11-22-2002, 07:07 AM
You basically have three options:
#1 Call her out on it: You\'re being a real bitch. What did I do to deserve being treated like [censored], or is your self esteem just so low you have to act like that to feel big.
#2 Treat her like [censored] back: sometimes being a bitch is a woman\'s way of finding someone strong enough to deal with her.
#3 As Belgareth said WALK AWAY - this would be my recommendation as well. Stupid games get annoying, and who knows why a woman is a pain in the ass. Maybe she\'s just a bitch. I saw a lot of nasty women in OZ - just snotty and high on themselves. I walked away and found some real sweethearts. They are there you just have to find them.

belgareth
11-22-2002, 07:21 AM
My problem with the first two is they often lead to unwanted confrontations. I can hold my own if needed, but why bother? A person, male or female, who wants to act like an ass is a waste of my time. There are far too many good people in this world to be bothered by those who have an attitude problem.

Watcher
11-24-2002, 04:00 PM
The problem with unwanted confrontations is that they happen way to often. Holding ones own is a good skill to have, why bother well depending on a situation it may be useful to learn something. Both sexes act like asses, something about being selective and having things go their way all the time. All this talk of rights but none of their personal responsibilities also.
There seem to be less good people in the world all the time, a lot more people have an attitude problem these days and it gets annoying.

belgareth
11-25-2002, 07:01 AM
Watcher,

You are right on most of your points.

I will not accept that poor manners and bad attitudes must be or even should be tolerated. While it may not have any effect on the other person, I feel better when I walk away from somebody else\'s attitude problem.

Watcher
11-25-2002, 08:36 PM
I never accpet poor attitudes or bad manners. It i would say 95% of the time have no effect on the other person, shifting them away to be dealt with by someone else is good. Save all that mental effort and emotional energy for someone with good points attached to them, good manners and a great positive attitude.

CptKipling
11-28-2002, 07:57 AM
This was originally in responce to earlier discussion, but here it is anyway!

Some good points people, especially listen to jose.

A nice guy is just no challenge.

But yes you do have to make the distinction between gentile and goody-goody-must-do-anything-to-please-a-girl-even-though-it-makes-me-look-soooo-despirate-and-needy nice guys. Sure be kind, empathetic and such, but don\'t bend over backwards at all, because if you do something for her that puts you out so much, then it really does make you look desperate. And for Gods sake don\'t be predictable. At least make it look like you have a life outside of your ever lasting quest to get this one girl (hypothetical), because if you don\'t, you look sad (as in NO LIFE). In other words, slightly unattainable, if you also use social proof (being seen to be having fun with other women, or just in general, and not seeking to be around her all the time), then this will make her think \"Ohh [such and such] thinks he is worth it, so he must be\", but NEVER talk yourself up to her. \"Oh yeah, just the other day I won greatest [insert suitably pointless competition here] of the year award, aren’t I great? I mean, you do think I\'m great right? That (obviously) being the whole point of me boasting to you...\"

Cruel example:

There is a guy, call him Mr Z, and he really likes Mrs X. Unfortunately, he is no challenge at all, no achievement if she was to go out with him, and no fun at all because he would be constantly concerned whether she was having fun, which would create a paradox, the more he tries, the less she likes him, so the more he tries...

Mr X was thanking his lucky stars one day, a girl he had thought to be quite attractive gets drunk in his company (and others), and they end up making out, but not to heavily. Well she has known him for a little while, thinks he is a reasonably nice guy, but isnt attracted to him really, but hasn’t ruled him out, which can be seen by their make out session.

After that night she tells him that she doesn’t really want to go any further, as she has a bf, and really shouldn’t have done that. Mr Z is upset, but cant see anyway to help his situation, but has now become really attracted to Mrs Z, a) because she is one of the only girls ever to have paid any attention to him, b) she herself is unattainable, better than him (but he thinks he may have a chance because of that night), and c) she must be a nice girl because she was sooo sorry to her bf.
None of the above reasons would count against him, so long as he didn\'t make them obvious. Thanks to cursed media brain-washing, he thinks the dating game is like a fairy tale, if he shows her how much he cares then she will like him more, and the more he shows it, the more Mrs Z will like him. His logic dictates to him that if she doesn’t like him, then this might be caused by him not showing it enough (because he knows this applied to him in the past, he didn\'t want to show affection because he was afraid of rejection), but it will definitely be solved by showing it some more. He believes that if he can only get her to go out with him, then she will see why he is so great.

^PATH TO FAILURE ALREADY^

Things he did right:
-Well first of all, he did seem to be slightly unattainable, but not intentionally, if he wasn’t so scared of rejection he would have shown more affection earlier.
-It is true that we like people who like us, but this affection will only be received for so long, before your constant attentions begin to bore.

Things he did wrong:
-All of the rest. If you cant see it read it over and over until you see it.

...story continues...
Mr X thinks his luck is up, but is still hopeful. Mrs Z has patches things up with her bf, Mr X even got quite scared at one point when it looked like her bf was going to kick the crap out of him. He stays in touch with Mrs Z because they do spend some time together, but only while in a group of friends going to meet her group of friends. It turns out that one of her friends like one of his friends, and this is the intent behind most of these meetings, they eventually get together. While they are meeting like this, its obvious there is one probable couple, and on some occasions its those two, him and Mrs Z. Now he thinks he’s back in, even though she hasn’t given him anything to get excited about, they were often just meeting up in town and/or messing about. His displays of affection are amplified, but he never has the guts to show it in front of her, and just acts like any other friend to her. Things continue like this for a a few weeks, by which time the other couple had gotten together.

One night a pissup presents its self, Mr X, a friend of his, his gf (Mrs Z friend), another friend of Mrs Z, Mrs Z and her bf. Her bf is mates with Mr X\'s friend. The drinks start flowing, things are fun, the usual. Mrs X and her bf have a bit of an incident, and while she is being comforted and he is talking to her friends, Mr X is there to comfort her. He gives her a hug and is really caring. She thinks her bf doesn’t care because he isn’t coming to comfort her while her friends are talking to him, and seeks comfort in Mr X. Mr X doesn’t argue with her judgment or the situation. He continues to let her know he cares, a lot. Tries to talk to her everyday, even when the situation has been sorted out with her bf.

Things he did right:
-He becomes things that she is missing from her bf, he is seen to be caring for her when she is upset, when her bf isn’t comforting her for whatever reason. This is a classic \"de-boyfriending\" technique, and she does think more of him.
-He goes to see her.
-Erm...yeah that’s pretty much it.

Things he did wrong:
-He never pressed for the close
-He seemed scared to show he liked her in front of her and other people.
-He got far too excited when she didn\'t give him any reason to be, again it wouldn\'t have mattered if he hadn\'t let it show so much.
-When he was with her, he was JUST LIKE ANY OTHER FRIEND.
All of the above justified it in her mind to LJBF\'s him, even though she didn\'t say anything, but she thought it was clear
-He acts exactly like this for 3 weeks, without at any time getting much of a positive response from her.
-Doesn\'t take advantage of the bf incident, which makes him look like a coward.
-Despite the fact that showing her he cared after the bf incident, he continues to do it in exactly the same way (still never going for the close) and far too much.

...continues...
Mrs Z\'s bf breaks it off because he isn’t over the fact that she cheated. Because he is still in contact with her (and because it was a partially mutual break up), Mr X thinks he might be in again. They end up spending more time together (low and behold, her same friend likes another of his friends, hence the continued meetings, but this is either not understood or ignored by Mr X), and he is loving it! One special night (well to him anyway, she wasn’t having that much fun), they get some drinks in a park after a gig. After the drinks, they are all lying on the grass, her close (ish) to him. He thinks the time is right to express his feelings. He leans over her and in a soft voice says, \"Mrs Z, I love you\". Mrs Z suppresses a giggle and says, \"yeah! whatever!\". \"But I thought you liked me...(!?!?!)\", \"Yeah! As a friend! Jesus!\"

Things he did right:
-Erm, pass.

Things he did wrong:
-Many repeated mistakes you should have picked up.
-He told her he loved her, I mean c’mon! What a completely sappy, pathetic thing to do in that situation! He wasn’t even interested, which he should have read. This doesn’t even come off as confidence, it just seems needy.

franki
11-28-2002, 08:27 AM
Where did you get that story from?

CptKipling
11-28-2002, 09:00 AM
From my head, call it anecdotal evidence! I\'m not implicated but I knew all the people involved.

krtel
11-28-2002, 11:26 AM
Very good story. The thing is, I want to have the qualities of Mrs. X\'s bf AND the nice/caring qualities of Mr. Z. Do you reckon that this is possible? I\'m going to be honest, when you described Mr. Z and the way he handled things, that described exactly how I am and my unsuccess. If you were like that, how would you go about improving yourself? I realize I have a problem now, but I don\'t know how to break out of it.

CptKipling
11-29-2002, 09:18 AM
I think the default state for most morally adjusted men is to be like Mr Z (perhaps not as extreem though). It is a true story, so it just goes to show. I used to be similar, I couldn\'t understand why my attention wasnt getting me anywhere. My reasoning was that I would enjoy it, so why don\'t they? Some men will say women are just strange (almost true /ubbthreads/images/icons/wink.gif ), but the real reason is that you beome just like every other guy that pays her compliments, you fade into the gray background of insignificant men. Girls want someone special, someone who \"deserves them\", a catch. This means being unnatainable, or slightly aloof from her attentions. Its just ends up looking like you need her if you keep paying her so much attention, hardly a catch.

I completely understand why you want to be caring, your just like me, its part of your nature. There isnt any reason why you cant be kind and caring and still be a catch. Take another look at the things Mr Z did right:

Things he did right:
-Well first of all, he did seem to be slightly unattainable, but not intentionally, if he wasn’t so scared of rejection he would have shown more affection earlier.
-It is true that we like people who like us, but this affection will only be received for so long, before your constant attentions begin to bore.
-He becomes things that she is missing from her bf, he is seen to be caring for her when she is upset, when her bf isn’t comforting her for whatever reason. This is a classic \"de-boyfriending\" technique, and she does think more of him.
-He goes to see her.

Those do include being kind. Being a gentleman is good aswell, as long as you don\'t do any of these again:

Things he did wrong:
-He never pressed for the close
-He seemed scared to show he liked her in front of her and other people.
-He got far too excited when she didn\'t give him any reason to be, again it wouldn\'t have mattered if he hadn\'t let it show so much.
-When he was with her, he was JUST LIKE ANY OTHER FRIEND.
All of the above justified it in her mind to LJBF\'s him, even though she didn\'t say anything, but she thought it was clear
-He acts exactly like this for 3 weeks, without at any time getting much of a positive response from her.
-Doesn\'t take advantage of the bf incident, which makes him look like a coward.
-Despite the fact that showing her he cared after the bf incident, he continues to do it in exactly the same way (still never going for the close) and far too much.
-Many repeated mistakes you should have picked up.
-He told her he loved her, I mean c’mon! What a completely sappy, pathetic thing to do in that situation! He wasn’t even interested, which he should have read. This doesn’t even come off as confidence, it just seems needy.

...Unfortunately, he is no challenge at all, no achievement if she was to go out with him, and no fun at all. This is because he would be constantly concerned whether she was having fun, which would create a paradox; the more he tries, the less she likes him, so the more he tries...

...and the whole seccond para. of the story.

Things to do:
1) get hold of those Unstoppable confidence MP3s that were floating around the forum a while ago, they come reccomended.
2) Try to remember that no one girl is \"all important\". There are others, and they will appriciate you even is she doesnt.
3)Make yourself feel good! Relax, have a good time, be a fun person to be around (automatic BTW)
4) Use pheros to get reactions to boost your self esteem.
5) Don\'t change your core beliefs, don\'t become a jerk. You might find that not all girls appriciate your kind-heartedness, but there are girls out there that will.
6) Remember nobody likes a sap. It sounds a bit harsh, but it all comes with confidence.

belgareth
11-29-2002, 09:42 AM
CptKipling:

You said it very well. I\'d like to add a couple more thoughts, though.

My main reaction is that this guy was wasting his time and energy from the begining. She makes me think of the ETWG from another thread. Being a gentleman does not include letting somebody take advantage of you or pursuing a no-win situation. He should have dropped that pursuit and started seeing and paying attention to several other women. You get the advantage of playing the odds and you lose the disadvantage of appearing needy to any of them. Being caring and being a sucker are not the same thing. There are girls out there (yes, guys too) who live a soap opera and only want to play emotional games with you. Don\'t let them drag you into it, you can\'t win. By spending time with several girls at the same time, you become the one to catch rather than trying to catch any one of them.

CptKipling
11-30-2002, 09:28 AM
Well put belgareth,

This guy was the most classic example of far-too-nice-guy syndrome I had ever experienced. He had all the wrong ideas. I don\'t understand even now why he didn\'t just forget about her, I mean he isn\'t your typical stud (looks wise), but he didn\'t at all help peoples perseption of his personality. He could have gone after and had different girls, if only he hadn\'t made this one so important to him.

MaxiMog
11-30-2002, 09:55 AM
The Unstoppable Confidence mp3s can be found at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/putec/ (\"http://groups.yahoo.com/group/putec/\") in the files section in the ross jeffries folder. You need to join, it doesn\'t cost anything, but you have to be a yahoo member.

CptKipling
12-01-2002, 10:47 AM
Yes its definately worth it.

Some of his stuff may sound a bit strange, but just go with it and learn from it.

**DONOTDELETE**
12-03-2002, 07:49 PM
The real secret here is creating the polarity needed.

Why do rock stars and porn stars go together so often (Pam and Kid Rock, all the playboy bunnies and rock stars, etc). Is it just a coincidence that they represent the extreme opposites of being \"alpha\" and being very feminine in their sexiness? Or look at someone like Tom Hanks and Meg Ryan. Hanks is a classic \"nice guy\". Some women like that. The Meg Ryan type, not the more sexual type with the 6 inch heels, like Pam Anderson.

If you make yourself happy before making others happy, if you stand up for what you believe in, when you don\'t compromise your own integrity for the sake of others.....this is what will make you attractive to women.

Watcher
12-03-2002, 11:38 PM
Good insight caliguy23 we either attract the same sort of person or the opposite. You know someone outgoing with someone reserved. Or visa versa someone with a high sex drive with someone with a low sex drive or as you said a rock star and a porn star. Boogie nights anyone.

Lucky
12-04-2002, 10:52 PM
Krish,
Be confident, whether you feel it or not. Pick a girl with whom you have something in common. Stare at her a lot (lock your eyes on her eyes when she catches you), but don\'t say a word. In general, be mysterious. You might casually whisper something personal (like what beautiful eyes she has) to her as you pass by her - then leave the ball in her court. Don\'t be too available for her, make her want to know more about you. Won\'t hurt to try this. Wish you luck!

krtel
12-04-2002, 11:21 PM
Thanks a lot for the kind words. I have recently been using the eye locking technique and I think I am getting better at it. Again, these words mean much to me. Thanks again. /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif

CptKipling
12-05-2002, 11:04 AM
Go Krish! Tell us how you get on. Be carefull not JUST to stare, you could look like a creep. Smile aswell, but keep it casual.

Look at lots of girls, especially in the presence of other girls. Try talking a lot more too...

proteus
12-05-2002, 12:32 PM
Decided to chime in on this thread as I\'ve been rethinking my whole position on this \"women and nice guy\" thing. I think there is a lot of truth expressed in this article I came across on the web written by a woman called \"Jennifer:

<<<<<Begin Article>>>>>>


\"Too nice\" isn\'t nice at all. It\'s rotten.

Women dump you because you\'re \"too nice\"? Don\'t be fooled, says our Ms. Metcalf. They aren\'t saying you\'re too nice. They\'re saying you\'re a jerk. Here\'s why.


Jim N., on our Women forum wrote: \"I treat women too nice. Is this possible?\"


It was a great question, and one we\'ve seen in the forum many times. The answer: No, Jim, but you may define \"nice\" differently than women do. That dreaded nice-guy syndrome has little to do with actually being nice. Recently, Denis Boyles wrote a column about how women view men in the November 1997 issue of \"Men\'s Health\" magazine. He demonstrated how to make a woman totally disrespect and despise you -- be passive, be ambivalent, avoid conflict, and be androgynous -- in other words, turn yourself into a \"nice guy.\"


Give me a challenge.


Think intellectualism here, not one-on-one bench presses or spitting contests, gentlemen. It\'s not \"nice\" to let us rot from our own apathy. I have self-discipline, but I also need someone who won\'t accept less than my best. When I\'ve gained a couple of pounds, the last words I want to hear are, \"Getting kind of fat there, aren\'t you, Ms. MetCOW?\" But I sometimes need a swift kick in the rear. A man who treats me with the delicacy of a spoiled movie star child gets exactly that -- a spoiled brat who neither respects nor admires him. It actually isn\'t \"nice\" to treat a woman like that.


However, sometimes we\'re not very nice to you, even though we kid ourselves that we\'re sparing your feelings. Why? Because we don\'t want to tell you the real reasons you don\'t hold our interest: Boredom, passivity, lack of confidence.


If I can intimidate a man by giving him a handful of breast, what can I think about his ability to handle the rest of me? As Valerie, a 36-year-old engineer from Oregon, whom I met online, told me, \"I want a man strong enough to not be intimidated by me. I have a very dominant personality. I need a man who can overcome that.\" Amen, sister.


When guys are dumped because they\'re told they\'re too nice it has nothing to do with etiquette and respect, attributes both sexes owe each other. Instead, usually guys in this situation give up their own self-respect for becoming near-slaves to their objects of desire. With few exceptions, women hate this. Be a bit flexible but never give up your life for a woman. Have a focus in your life and work towards it. When you possess a take-charge attitude with your life, we know that you\'re not asking us to take care of you.


Challenge us by not always giving into us. When a plump pair of D-cups attached to rose-pedal soft cheeks threatens to turn you into an early life form, your challenge, dear Sir, is to be a man -- enjoy the atmosphere and scenery, but don\'t let it dominate your every thought. Every inch your spine reclines takes along with it a piece of our attraction for you. Pretty soon, the spine breaks, and you\'re left a jellyfish.


Simply put -- say what you mean and mean what you say. Don\'t tell us that you won\'t put up with a certain type of behavior and go back on your word and then whine because we\'re walking all over you! I have no respect for men who are so unsure of themselves that they\'ll lose their self-respect before they lose their girlfriend. Desperation, in a man is a highly undesirable and unattractive trait.


The man who lights my fire sparks my imagination. He doesn\'t sit in a Barcalounger exercising his digits with the remote control. He grabs me by the hand and together we navigate through a new maze of experiences. He wants to climb the Mt. Everest of life and expects me to be by his side. His thrust into life is as instigator and his determination and persistence feed me. I crave more. He\'s my Jack Dawson. I don\'t want a man who is waiting around to win the lottery. Women want men who don\'t let life -- or women -- slow them down.


A wise man appreciates that fear is an enormous aphrodisiac. Not knowing exactly what will happen next is both utterly frightening and exhilarating -- it incites passion both in soul and body. Jerks may not be gentlemen, but sometimes we take that chance to feel the \"rush\" instead of playing it safe and monotonous with a Bob-Newhart-kind of guy. Think of a quickie in a semi-public place. The idea of fear -- of being caught -- is what makes the heart race, not the sex itself. Illicit love is not \"safe,\" which fuels our fear and heightens our arousal.


Part of the appeal of fear may be why some women ascribe to that forbidden fruit, submission. One man, in an ad in a BDSM \"lifestyle\" site looking for a submissive woman, wrote, \"This ad is for the woman who finds abject submission ennobling, even courageous. A woman who would be proud to call herself slave to a man she knows deserves her sacrifice. For the woman who\'s not afraid to call her partner her equal, but understands that he has a right to train and use her as he sees fit. This ad is for the woman who believes that this mass of contradictions she calls her desire can be resolved in partnership with a special man, one who knows enough not to let her have a choice in the matter of her enslavement, but also knows a caged bird cannot fly.\" The writing and the phraseology may not be world-class -- um, slave? -- but the sentiment sure works. Maybe that\'s one reason why BDSM and Dominance and submission (D/s) are moving from the fringes of sexual behavior to the mainstream, and from the off-putting scene-playing \"lifestyle\" stuff -- with all that leather and those awful accessories -- to everyday life.


Limits.


Nice guys never question our limits, and hence we don\'t grow. We stagnate and we both fall down into new depths. The \"nice\" guy who is so completely agreeable with everything we say or do leaves it up to us to find our own limits. I don\'t always know what they are. Limits make me feel secure. I have freedom, but I know where the borders are. Sometimes women are interested in men who seem to know more about them than they do about themselves, simply because they make them face their fears and make them go to limits set only by their lover. I\'ll go into the woods if you hold my hand, dear Sir. But you need to lead.


Another online friend, Erica, a 19-year-old college student in Minnesota, told me she allows only kissing on the first date. On a recent date, however, a persistent yet not pushy gentleman challenged that limit. In her words, \"All through dinner, his eyes were strong and focused on mine along with a genuine but cautious smile. He listened intently and when he spoke, I listened to his deliberate words very carefully. When we kissed good night, he completely overwhelmed me by his slow (but not too much so) manner. He started to put his hands up under my sweater, and to my amazement, I wanted it, too. Pretty soon, I was topless, something I never imagined myself doing on the first date. But then, when he started to unzip my jeans, he just pushed me past my comfort zone. I told him no. He didn\'t stop until I said in a stern voice, \"no\" again. Surprisingly, it wasn\'t an awkward moment at all. He never offered an apology, which I\'m kind of glad. He pushed but then made me realize where my own limits lie, and for that, I am grateful.\"


Another man on the forum, Jerry, was about to be married to a woman he described as \"cold, unaffectionate, insensitive, and miserable with me 90% of the time.\" He added, \"I, on the other hand, hold a great job and have pretty much given up my friends to pursue a life with this girl. I pamper her and treat her like a queen with very little response.\" Actually, Jerry, she has given you a response. Her indifference is her way of saying she wants limits. You are her doormat and she\'s wiping her manure-soaked shoes all over you. You set no limits and give her no challenges.


Speaking of limits, I know of a girl who thought she only liked vanilla ice cream. But her dominant, mysterious lover kept urging her to try new flavors. Slowly and cautiously, she\'s licking her way up to 31 flavors....

Jennifer

**DONOTDELETE**
12-05-2002, 12:38 PM
!!!!!!!

I wish you could write this on a billboard 10 stories high.

franki
12-05-2002, 01:12 PM
For those who want to read more of that stuff, go to the \"heartless bitches\" site: /ubbthreads/images/icons/tongue.gif

http://www.heartless-bitches.com/rants/niceguys/ng.shtml (\"http://www.heartless-bitches.com/rants/niceguys/ng.shtml\")

Franki /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif

belgareth
12-05-2002, 02:05 PM
Ok, this is what I\'ve been saying right along. You don\'t have to be a push over to be a gentleman. She said it a lot better than I ever could though.

Watcher
12-05-2002, 05:20 PM
So in other words treat her a bit like a cavewomen beat her over the head and drag her back to youre cave and have youre way with her.

FTR please dont respond to this comment either.

**DONOTDELETE**
12-05-2002, 06:03 PM
Ok, I won\'t.

belgareth
12-06-2002, 06:16 AM
So long as you do it in a gentlemanly fashion /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif

CptKipling
12-06-2002, 07:27 AM
Exactly, really good artical proteus.

Everyone, take note.

Lucky
12-06-2002, 07:29 AM
Every guy should read Jennifer\'s article (and learn from it).