Calling All EW users

[Bruce]

Hi All,

Mainly I am interested in hearing about what works in terms of dilution application etc. I have a strong feeling there is a winner product in there somewhere; just have to arrive at the optimal concentration. So, if you have had good results in any shape or form, please take a minute and answer the following questions:

1. What did you use to dillute the EW? eg: water, ethanol, jojoba oil..

2. What concentration did you find most effective? eg: 1:100, 1:300, 1:50 (EW to carrier/solvent).

3. How did you apply your final mixture? eg: spray, dab on...

4. Did you use your mix with a fragrance?

5. What fragrance, if any was most effective with your mix? eg: SOE, CK1...

6. Is it NECESSARY to use a fragrance with your mix? ie: fear of \"offending\" if you don\'t...

7. Any other comments you feel would be useful in designing a future incarnation of EW.

Thanks in advance. I hope you have enjoyed experimenting with EW.

Cheers,
Bruce

[Watcher]

1.) Water
2.)1:200
3.) Dab
4.)2 drops of vanilla
5.)Same as above
6.) No not necessary recommened if worried though
7.) Found the product very good, worked when applied seperate with AE mens. So it would be good to have it available seperatley.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

1. What did you use to dillute the EW?
Cologne (Pi).

2. What concentration did you find most effective?
I took a toothpick, dipped it in, got a small drop, and then mixed the small drop in the cologne. I did that twice.

3. How did you apply your final mixture?
Spray

4. Did you use your mix with a fragrance?
See Question # 1

5. What fragrance, if any was most effective with your mix?
Only tried the one so far

6. Is it NECESSARY to use a fragrance with your mix?
With very very small amounts mixed in you can barely smell the EW. Even a single drop on its own would most likely be very offensive or at least noticable.

7. Any other comments you feel would be useful in designing a future incarnation of EW.
Leave it concentrated like it is, but provide a method of delivering a much smaller amount. If making it for women, try mixing it with a rose scent. I haven\'t tried it, but I imagine rose mixing well for some reason...?

P.S. I promised Bruce I would post results. I recently got a new job, so I haven\'t been out as much. Two weeks ago, I mixed it, as described above, with some A1, PIw, and Chem Kit Rone in cologne. [I don\'t know what ratios etc. I just dropped some of each in till it smelled right].

I have no idea if it was the EW or not, but I had two young ladies blantly flirt with me (grabbing my ass, kissing each other while looking at me, and rubbing me and rubbing each other all night, etc.). As you may have guessed, they were bi-sexual. This went on from around 10:00 p.m. to 2:00 a.m. In fact, they followed my friend and I to another bar 6 or 7 blocks away from where we met them. Anyhow, it may have been the EW....I honestly don\'t know. I\'ve only had that kind of thing happen once before (without the mones) and that was when I was 25.

[Watcher]

I would say the increased chances that this stuff caused it would probably be it, and the fact you were drinking increased the reduction in awareness these women had in other words they were more open to the pheros.

[DrSmellThis]

I used maybe three drops per oz. in the EW floral/musk perfume I\'ve created. It\'s very nice in context. Any stronger wouldn\'t have worked.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

I just got my bottle. I\'ll let you know about my experiments in the following weeks.

I\'m also waiting to get my rose otto essential oil to make a rose based perfume to mix with. I also plan to use some \'nol in it with a very tiny amount of \'rone and \'none for an added complexity to the phero signature. The \'none/\'nol/\'rone content should be below 0.2mg/ml and I don\'t know about the EW yet.

From now on I use pheros exclusively as a component of my homemade perfumes and I think it will be a great component for women\'s perfume when used in small quantity.

From what I read about EW, I think it could be sold as a 10% dilution because nobody use it straight anyway. Even at 10% it would be very strong... But for the mad scientists playing with the chem kit, it\'s great to have access to the pure product.

By the way it would be great to have access to the pure \'none/\'nol/\'rone cristaline form product too so we could dilute it in a no alcohol base... (I\'ll post it in the customer questions section....)

[franki]

\"I think it will be a great component for women\'s perfume when used in small quantity.\"

Does that mean you are only going to let your girlfriend wear EW, or are YOU going to wear it too?

[Irish]

1. What did you use to dillute the EW? eg: water, ethanol, jojoba oil..

A 70/30 mix of ethanol/water

2. What concentration did you find most effective? eg: 1:100, 1:300, 1:50 (EW to carrier/solvent).

1:100 Only a very strong cologne would cover (barely)
1:1000 Most colognes would cover the EW smell if sprayed on after a spray of 1:1000
1:4000 Mixed it with other pheros, no noticeable change in reactions
1:48000 Stealth mix - couldn\'t detect odor at all

3. How did you apply your final mixture? eg: spray, dab on...

Sprayed on the diluted EW, followed with spray of cologne to same area

4. Did you use your mix with a fragrance?

Tried several designer colognes looking for best coverage

5. What fragrance, if any was most effective with your mix? eg: SOE, CK1...

Guerlain Vetiver covered the best (it\'s strong, would cover anything). Realm/fm was the worst for covering EW - it actually seemed to accentuate the smell of EW

6. Is it NECESSARY to use a fragrance with your mix? ie: fear of \"offending\" if you don\'t...

Even at several thousand to one I find the smell of EW objectionable and in need of cover

7. Any other comments you feel would be useful in designing a future incarnation of EW.

We seem to have good info on copulin\'s effect on men from research. If you can locate any research on copulins effect on WOMEN, that info would be a guide for men wanting to try the product to attract girls.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

\"to let your girlfriend wear EW, or are YOU going to wear it too? \"

The plan is to make perfumes for women, be it my girlfriend or friends.

I will try it just for fun but I don\'t plan to use it on me on a regular basis.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

I mixed my 1% EW dilution in 94% ethanol yesterday, about 4 drops in 10ml .

Ho god this tiny bottle from hell stink ! I went outside to do the job, I have been very careful, I didn\'t spoil a single drop, I didn\'t touch the stuf with my skin but even then, this morning my coat stink ! Not only should you wear gloves and mix it outside but it would be better to use a lab coat ... and a gaz mask !

Even the 1% dilution is still very concentrated but at least I will be able to use *drops* of it in other experiments without shocking.

The 100% copulin sample is lab grade stuff, not a consumer commodity.


Anyway, thanks Bruce, the mad scientist in me is pleased ;-)

[**DONOTDELETE**]

I got daring and put three whole drops of concentrate into 12 oz of Kiss My Face Olive and Aloe Fragrance Free Moisturizer. It\'s fine. It doesn\'t irritate my skin and it smells like my body spray only now I dont have to put on lotion and THEN put on EW spray.

I did the same with some scented lotion and it works fine too.

Lotions seem to be a good bet for all over application.

[Shoe]

1. water
2. I mixed up 1 drop in 1oz. water (about 1:1000)
3. Drop on and rub around....
4. Yes
5. SOE was alright, Chrome worked better.
6. The smell REALLY dies down on my skin after an hour. Turns into something quite nice. I\'ve used two drops w/o fragrance.
7. EW is very relaxing to me!!! This has been a great discovery because I have chronic anxiety. Makes me sleep like a rock if applied in the evening. Haven\'t had good opportunities yet to test with others /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Women -- try this! Splurge on BeneFit\'s Bathina \"Touch Me Then Try To Leave\" body cream. You\'ll thank me. It\'s worth the $26.00 by itself. Heavenly, you feel like satin and smell like roses and sandalwood -- and it\'s beauteeful with EW.BINGO! this is a killer combination. Whatever guy can resist it either has no pulse or is a mutant from another planet.

[cuddlebear]

An irresistable redhead .. hmmm .. need any one to like do some testing with ... uh maybe just to confirm your results? .. all in the name of science ... I\'ll be your guinea pig baaaaaby ..oh ok I\'ll behave ... hey now since you\'ve found the ultimate male attractant I\'ll have to see if I can find its male counterpart and report it to all the guys ... /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif Cuddles

[**DONOTDELETE**]

It just all came together so felicitously...EW and lotion ... I like EW and rose water ... what lotion has the best rose smell? ... hm ... OH! Touch Me Then Try To Leave! at last, an excuse to spend $26.00 on a body cream! (in the name of science. sacrifices must be made) It really is a beautiful blend, I\'m so happy with it. Cuddles, I\'m scared of you. You\'d start working that \'mone magic and make me your sex slave or something, twitching around and doing pelvic thrusts in public and foaming at the mouth ... I dunno if I can handle all that...I\'m only female... I put two drops of EW in the 4.75 ounces (140mL) jar and mixed it up. What strength copulins does that make it? Now I have to get chem set -nol.

[cuddlebear]

Aww... don\'t be scared of Cuddles /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif Seriously, though, I think I am probably going to come upon my dream mix in a similar fashion, probably when I least expect it. And of course I will do my duty as a forum member and let y\'all know ... /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif

[MadMaxx]

1. What did you use to dillute the EW? eg: water, ethanol, jojoba oil..
90% or more water; a relatively small amount of perfume.

2. What concentration did you find most effective? eg: 1:100, 1:300, 1:50 (EW to carrier/solvent).
Roughly 1:300

3. How did you apply your final mixture? eg: spray, dab on...
I put drops on my arms and chest and rub them around.

4. Did you use your mix with a fragrance?
Sometimes I cover with perfume, but it is not necessary.

5. What fragrance, if any was most effective with your mix? eg: SOE, CK1...
I use D and G fragrances.

6. Is it NECESSARY to use a fragrance with your mix? ie: fear of \"offending\" if you don\'t...
Not necessary at all, even at 1:300. My skin smells finger lickin\' good without added fragrance. I honestly believe that nobody is offended at this level. The people I ask directly do not detect anything, and judging by the reactions from some women who like to rub there breasts on me, I highly doubt that I smell revolting.

7. Any other comments you feel would be useful in designing a future incarnation of EW.
My comments: ignore the people who throw around dilution rates of several thousand to one. I will be downright pissed off if the only choice of product available is one that is diluted that much. We already have that with PCC! There are many on the forum who like a dilution rate of around 300:1,(sometimes described as a couple of drops in on ounce of carrier). Or, if a much weaker product is going to be made, leave the rest of us the option of purchasing a \"chem set\" type potent product to do with as we please. Peopel like Irish must have relatives who are dogs. It has always been clear to me that my sense of smell is far better than anyone around me. EW at 300:1 is NOT offensive. This is coming from a guy that is sensitive to the point that about half the men that are anywhere in my vicinity on a daily basis make me nauseous to the point that I could vomit.

Thanks in advance. I hope you have enjoyed experimenting with EW.

Cheers,
Bruce

[Bruce]

Thanks to everyone who posted results. Keep them coming if you haven\'t, but it seems to me that there is something worth salvaging here to say the least.

At this point, based on what I am reading, I think I will have 100 bottles of a 1:100 dillution made up and sell them with a strong warning to newbies that the stuff smells something like what you would expect it too, and see what happens from there.

How does that sound? I think we rest assured that something like that is safe for consumers, can\'t we?

Bruce

[sophie]

I have been following all the EW posts with interest, and I must say a diluted version would entice me to order, because the stuff, as it is now, sometimes sounds frighteningly powerful. I, too, have people in my life who have \"noses like dogs\" and I\'m very leery of OD\'g on anything.
FTR\'s results encourage me a lot though. (thanks, R)

Keep us posted Bruce. and love your pic (avatar or whatever we call them). sophie

[belgareth]

Finally heard back from my female sales rep about results, she\'s pleased and is crediting this with meeting a new friend as well.

2 drops from EW bottle in 1oz baby oil.
Mix equal parts with oil she makes from Jasmine flowers(strong scent).
Put in roller bottle
Apply 1/2\" to each wrist at least an hour before going out.

[Bruce]

Thanks Sophie,
I tried to fix the photo just now. They don\'t give you much room. The original of that photo is at:
http://love-scent.com/theboyds.jpg (\"http://love-scent.com/theboyds.jpg\")

Bruce

[**DONOTDELETE**]

That\'s an incredibly good picture. What a lovely family.

[Bruce]

FTR,

Thanks. I\'m kind of fond of them. Just got the dog 2 weeks ago.

We took the photo with a cheapie digital camera set on a picnic table using the timer. With 2 kids and a dog, it took quite a few takes to get a keeper. We had a scream watching a slide show I made of the bloopers set to music. Here are a few choice exerpts:
http://love-scent.com/b1.JPG (\"http://love-scent.com/b1.JPG\")
http://love-scent.com/b2.JPG (\"http://love-scent.com/b2.JPG\")
http://love-scent.com/b3.JPG (\"http://love-scent.com/b3.JPG\")

Bruce

[**DONOTDELETE**]

The last one\'s my favorite.


I don\'t think the dog got the memo that it was picture day. /ubbthreads/images/icons/laugh.gif What\'s its name?

[Bruce]

Her name\'s Emma. We got her from the animal shelter. She already had that name. She hasn\'t really fully grasped the concept of the family photo yet, as you can see in this photo.
http://love-scent.com/b4.JPG (\"http://love-scent.com/b4.JPG\")

Bruce

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Maybe she thought you wanted action shots?

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Hey, Bruce -- I would be much happier if they could cut the indole note in EW by about half. I am enjoying it as is, but I do really wish for that one change.

[Bruce]

The indole thing is the tricking bit. We have been hashing that back and forth for a while. I have a sample with no indole and it smells just like fermented grape juice to me and nothing more. JVK says that (no indole) is the formula used by Astrid Jutte that got the big T spike reaction in tests, but Phil S. says the indole was used in the RP Michaels formula which Astrid got her ideas from. Indole is kind of a poop smell, but without it you really end up with wine. Maybe cutting the amount would zero in on what we want. Goes without saying that just as not all armpits smell the same, the same goes for booty. Some don\'t smell all that great, and some actually smell quite nice. Maybe we ought to collect some samples and run them through Phil\'s chromo smell tester thingamabob.
Bruce

[**DONOTDELETE**]

I didn\'t even like the idea of it, so was prepared to find EW completely objectionable, and was surprised to find how much I like it. I had been using water, and extremely high dilution. Then I read some posts and tried lotion and less dilute. The indole overwhelms and makes it hard to mix. Too much bottom note. /ubbthreads/images/icons/wink.gif Seriously, though. It makes it hard to balance in an oil-based mix -- the indole note seems to bloom in an oil-based mix, and dissipate in water. It would be nice to be able to use it with some flexibility in an oily mix, since that would stay on the skin better. I don\'t think it should come out entirely, but I vote in a big way for dialing it down a couple of notches.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

I did a first test using a 1:2500 dillution in a rose based perfume (with many other EOs in smaller qty of course). I also added some \'nol.

Undetectable even to my gf who was wearing it. Next time I\'ll use 1:1000 and it should be perfect.

I think 1:1000 in a perfume will be all right because we usually use only some drops of perfume at a time. For a body mist, 1:10000 is probably ok because someone can use 10 times more at a time.


She was affraid to OD on the fragrance so she didn\'t use enough (after one hour or two if was almost gone). Next time she\'ll use twice as much and it should be perfect.


About a \"consumer friendly\" version, I think a 2% dilution would be ok. 1% would do but would be less versatile as a cologne spiker.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

FTR, I\'m think about getting the lotion that you are recommending and trying to put two drops of the EW in it but I\'m concerned about the smell. Can you smell the EW at this dilution rate in the lotion? Thanks in advance.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

You know ... I\'m glad you brought it up. Reading everyone\'s posts, I started thinking I could stand to use a higher percentage EW than I have been ... the truth is, though, I can\'t. It smells poopy to me. Two drops in that gorgeous lotion is one drop too many. And in the future, I don\'t think I\'ll mix it. I think I\'ll use the lotion and then use the EW body spray, and not mix the products. It smells fine in the jar, and it smells fine when I first put it on, but as it warms, it smells too poopy. That 2 drop per jar of TMTTTL cream mix is working out to be only good for wearing on the legs/feet. I am sure it doesn\'t smell poopy to anyone else, but it\'s hard to wear close to my face because of that indole note.

So I\'m gonna backtrack from my initial enthusiasm.

I do still think they smell nice together, but I don\'t think I\'ll mix them again, so I\'ll have better control over the EW.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

I did try a massage oil spiked with EW and nol on my girlfriend and hoonestly I don\'t really like it. It would have been better without the EW. The concentration was 30 drops of a 1% dilution in 50ml of scented oil.

Anyway, I\'m not sure anymore that using phero in massage oil is a good idea... When you reach the point where you\'r providing massages to each other, I think using extra phero is a waste. Maybe just a simple little unisex \'none spike would be ok. That\'s what I\'ll do next time I brew a massage oil.

[Whitehall]

There are a number of ways that pheromones can serve our sex life. Initial attraction is probably the most talked about but there are other motives. One I\'ve experimented with is as an enhancement to the sex act. Pheromones can have startling effects here, turning the humdrum into delirium.

The ladies seem to have enjoyed copulins plus \'nol - either PCC or EW plus a \'nol such as PI/w or SPMO. Additives for message oils certainly have potential.

One formulation I\'m working on and will publish here soon is a light fragrance with EW and \'nol. I\'ve used a couple of fixative essential oils to constrain the indole and another essential oil to provide a covering top note. It\'s meant for a woman to wear between her birthday suit and her lingerie as a prelude to hot sex. It is fairly dilute (like a toliet water) so that she can spray over large areas, especially her inner thighs, breasts, and belly and the fragrance covering notes are intentionally light. It\'s action seems to support the \"orgy theory\" of copulins in that the smell of the sex act (specifically, vaginal secretions) inspire enthusiasm from women. It can also be used as a room spray or pillow spray.

The \'nol is added because it seems to have an intoxicating effect on many women, getting them in the party mood and disinhibiting them.

I\'m sending out a few samples to get some reactions from a broader sample of knowledgable users and might fine-tune the formula as advised. I like the name \"Saturnalia\" in honor of the orgy theory.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Saturnalia -- inspired! And very Capricornian. It sounds like a great mix.

The problem with EW for daily wear, at any concentration above 1:10000, is that you MUST wear a cover scent, and it has to be a fairly deep one. And you can\'t wear heavy cologne in an office where there is no air. I used to wear White Shoulders (floral, mostly neroli and tuberose) and was embarassed to tears one day when an attorney told me in so many words (indirectly, in a nice way, but I got the point) that I had on too much cologne. I realized what he was talking about when one of the legal assistants in an enclosed cubicle about 25 feet away from me sprayed ONE spray of a cucumber melon body splash and the smell permeated the entire hall for hours. I can\'t afford the kind of cover it needs at any strength -- because of the indole. And in higher concentrations, with just a light cologne applied sparingly, when the cologne wears off, you start to wonder whose baby needs changing...

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Thanks for the reply FTR. I was wondering what your mix was for the body spary that you are using? I remember you saying you put two drops in a gallon of water then took 8 oz. of that water and added another drop. Is this correct? With this dilution do you still think that you need to use a heavy scent over it? Thanks for your reply, I\'m thinking about making a mix this weekend. I have been a little scared of trying it until now but I think I will give it a try. =) Also, I don\'t really want something that will change my phermone signiture just enhance it a bit, but from what I have read here about couplins I don\'t think that they will do much altering as other pheres might.

[Nutt]

I\'ve been using 3-4 drops ( from the inbuilt dropper thing, so not very accurate) dumped into a 500ml bottle of mineral water, not a very strong smell, but defiantly detectable if you \' sniff the bottle\' . the strength seems to have decreased over the ( maybe ) two weeks Its been in the mineral water, but only slightly

I\'ve worn it occasionally ( usually covering with a SOE or SPMO citrus / vanilla ) with no amazing results, but not in very conductive situations.

I have however been trying to take a good whiff of it now and again, in the attempt to gain a little extra testosterone from it to aid my weight training, I do think that its working and considering the amount used its a pretty efficient little boost to my supplements /ubbthreads/images/icons/laugh.gif

Recently Ive been smearing some of the bottled solution around the nose / mouth area to try to get a bit of a sustained release thing going on. seems to work. ( only when I\'m not going out though, its not that strong but I\'d wonder what a girl would think if I used to much there before work! :-) )


overall good stuff, The concentration would have to go down a lot for a product, but its certainly a lot more versatile for us enthusiasts like this.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

5 drops in a gallon of water - pour off one cup of that mix and add one more drop. I put it in a fine mist sprayer and use about 6 sprays. You can definitely smell it but just a little bit of even a light cologne covers it nicely -- disguises it, I should say. At that high a dilution, it doesn\'t need cover so much as just a little disguise, a little bit of tweaking.
Good luck, I think you\'ll enjoy it. /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif

Oh, P.S. - that body spray, I believe, is Woman\'s concoction under direction of Whitehall and maybe Oscar - so I can\'t take credit. /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif

[**DONOTDELETE**]

\"30 drops of a 1% dilution in 50ml of scented oil. \"

48 hours later it\'s unusable. I started a foot massage and we had to stop, wash it all off and start again with another oil.

The dirty artificial pussy smell had propagated and multiplied in the oil or something. Garbage.

Well in fact I don\'t find it arousing at all and to me it doesn\'t smell like the real thing at all. Some people may be fooled but not me.

I also had to store the EW bottle and the 1% dilution in a tightly closed masson jar because it was propagating all around the room even if it was stored in a box.

I think that will be the end of my EW experiments for a while...

[franki]

Maybe you have to let the \"indole smell\" get away. My EW was very bad smelling when I first got it, but a few weeks after I first opened the bottle it smelled a lot better.

[MadMaxx]

Chuckv, I would say you are badly mistaken if you think EW is not going to alter your pheromone signature. I won\'t bother going into detail, but I would say that it will \"alter\" things just as much as any other product here.

[MadMaxx]

FTR, at first I didn\'t think it is was \"poopy\", except when the fresh bottle comes, but now I have a slightly different opinion. I wonder how much you sweat, or how hot your body is. For me, on a normal day, there isn\'t a problem with \"poopiness\", but I find that when I go to my intense dance lessons, the warmer and sweatier I get, the \"poopy\" note really comes out. I don\'t know whether that is a problem or not though. It may actually be a necessary part of that \"sex\" smell we are going for. What I can tell you is that a good number of women who I dance with do NOT seem revolted by any means; quite the contrary actually. So, I doubt that they are thinking, \"God, this guy smells like poop\". Or, if they are thinking that, it is turning them on!

[**DONOTDELETE**]

I don\'t sweat much, but I\'m like a little stove. I never even wear a jacket until it\'s down to about 45 degrees, or a coat until it\'s nearly hit freezing, and I like room temperature at about 65-68. I\'m always hot. If I feel chilly in less than nearly freezing temperatures, I\'m getting sick. So there could be something to that. But I also think, MM, it has to do with the fact that you\'re not already naturally producing the smell that EW was modeled after. Y\'know what I mean? I\'m sure a guy can stand to wear a lot more than a woman can, just because a woman\'s already got that scent to start with. Just the slightest bit more can put her into OD. I don\'t know what anyone else thinks about my smell because I\'m just around the people I work with, and they wouldn\'t say anything. (God only knows what they might be thinking.) I\'m saying it\'s hard for ME to wear it unless it\'s at a ridiculously high dilution. I was trying to concentrate on some pretty technical paperwork and kept being distracted by drifting images/daydreams about babysitting and times when the wives had brought new babies to the office so we could meet them, to the point that I finally had to put the work down and focus on the images (WHAT? what is this trying to tell me?) and it hit me, it\'s the poopy smell on ME. I couldn\'t concentrate because my head was upset that somebody\'s baby was uncomfortable and needed a diaper change. It\'s the indole on my upper body I\'m smelling and I don\'t like it. That\'s wearing it in certain lotions at higher concentrations than 1:10000. If I wear the water mix, I get a completely different image, one that I\'m comfortable with and doesn\'t bother or distract me.

[Whitehall]

Red has beat me to an insight, as usual.

Women and men have different sensitivities and associations to indole. A key indicator is the willingness to change baby diapers. Most men I know (myself included) DREAD changing a messy baby diaper while many women think its \"cute.\" Women, as infant caregivers, need to put up with or even delight in indole.

That would explain why a guy wearing indole would be socially anxious while nearby women would be blaise about the smell. It would also explain Red\'s mental associations with EW and is related to her appreciation of baby powder.

I do think that a key to using EW is in finding a decent fixative for the indole so that it\'s release rate is slower and more closely matches the other ingredients. A lower concentration in future formulations would help too as would more impervious packaging, maybe all metal. In Batch One, the indole seemed to be able to escape the plastic seal and cap. possibly by direct diffusion but probaly via the cap seal.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

I can\'t stand it and my girlfriend can\'t stand it. I\'ll hide the dreaded bottle of concentrated liquid baby [censored] in a multi layered bunker at the back end of my garage !

Maybe I\'ll dare to keep the 1% dilution closer for future experiments...

[CptKipling]

1%?!

Even that sounds a bit strong. Unless you are mixing it afterwards, which I guess you are, which makes this another pointless post, oh well!!

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Of course 1% is terribly strong. But it\'s possible to work with for further dillution in a mix.

If I ever work with it again, for sure I\'ll never use it under 1/5000.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

I\'m so sorry you don\'t like it. Even at 1:10,000?

Does it do nothing for you as far as testosterone boost or anything?

[sabSpeaks]

I\'ve never personally tried EW.

A previous post on this forum advised using an entire bottle of EW when you\'re with a girl. No mistake. This seems outrageous compared to the bickering about 0.1% concentration.
Any ideas?

[**DONOTDELETE**]

it was a joke

[franki]

\"A previous post on this forum advised using an entire bottle of EW when you\'re with a girl. No mistake.\"

ROFLMAO, I made that joke a few months ago. /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif It was in one of the infamous \"Ghostclown threads\". Applying a whole bottle of EW is so absurd (and gross) I thought everyone understood it was a joke. /ubbthreads/images/icons/tongue.gif

[CJ01]

Bruce, I have not been following this thread as much, and I´ve only just now looked at those photos of you and your family. To me you look very different on these than on the old picture you used to have along with your profile. Your hair looks darker to me than on the old pic and you´ve got more of a beard. I could me mistaken of course.
Oh and the other thing is that on one of the photos your eyes reminded me of Tom Sellec. I hope you don´t mind. /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif CJ

[oscar]

Bruce,

The suggestions I would offer to turn EW into a viable consumer product are these:

1. Reduce Indole content by at least 50%. The overall aroma should conjure an image reminiscent of the pussy family, not the family around the corner.

2. Reduce concentration so that 1 drop added to 10mL of a fragrance would yield a .005% (1:20,000) solution, thus allowing five drops to be added per 10mL to achieve a .025% (1:4000) solution.

.005% is the Copulin concentration of PPA/w.
.025% is the Copulin concentration of PCC.

My calculator (read brain) isn\'t working, nor do I know exactly how many drops of EW there are in a milliliter, so I\'ll leave the precision math and foul smelling drop/mL calculations to someone else.
I\'d imagine that this would require cutting EW to @1% of its beta test concentration.

The majority of (normal) people aren\'t inclined to get eyedroppers and mix their fragrances, so this should be able to be accomplished by using the reducer cap on the EW bottle itself.

Another approach might be to make it work out that the user could add the full bottle of EW to a 50mL bottle of fragrance to get a .025% concentration, or add 1/5 of the bottle to get .005%.

If it were practical to dilute the EW in water so it came in close to the 20 drops per mL guideline, a 1.25mL bottle of 1% EW solution would be just about ideal.( I realize that I\'m not calculating in the additional 1 or 1.25mL in the total finished product concentration figures.)

One drop of a 1% solution added to 10mL (200 drops) of fragrance would yield a .005% concentration.
Five drops of a 1% solution added to 10mL would yield .025%.

Five drops of a 1% solution added to 50mL would yield .005%.
Twenty five drops of a 1% solution added to 50mL would yield .025%.

I\'m going in circles here. Does this make sense?

Oscar /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif

[Bruce]

Oscar,
I think I got the bottom line anyway. In a nut shell:
cut the indole in half.
overall strength 1 % of what we have now.

That\'s all I need to know and fits with other advice we have collected.

Thanks,
Bruce

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Would it make sense to dilute the EW in alcohol rather than water? That would let it be mixed equally well in both oil based and alcohol based formulas.

[Bruce]

Oh yeah, one more big question. What to dilute it with???
Alcohol? Water?

Ptolemy,
Saw in your profile you\'re in the NW. Anywhere in our neighborhood (Eugene)?

Bruce

[MadMaxx]

I don\'t understand why these people don\'t like it either; but I guess that is okay with me. I love it at a dilution of a few hundred to one. I serves many purposes. Besides how it affects women in a positive way, I definitely believe it boosts T-levels as you asked FTR. I haven\'t attempted to prove that be having my blood tested, but I am assuming that it is true for a few reasons. Since I started using EW regularly my body is a regular furnace, which it always was until my late 20\'s, when I figure my T-levels dropped significantly. At the same time, my sex drive fell significantly, but now it is back where it was about 5 years ago. Also, just the energy I have and the desire to excerise, which I have never really ever had. Great stuff!

[Icemone]

Hi Bruce,

A Happy Thanksgiving to all /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif

I will order AE in a few days and I want the full strength version of the beta test \"Essesnce of Woman\" Part of the fun is experimenting with the products.

Please send it with my AE order.

P.s. Great pics! Seem to have a fantastic
family. Enjoy

Thanks

[franki]

You can better send him a PM or an email, otherwise Bruce might not notice your request in time!!

[**DONOTDELETE**]

I diluted my EW in water because I knew I didn\'t want to use it in a pulse point application, and over my body, I didn\'t want to use alcohol for fear it would irritate my skin. Several people did mention, though, that in water, it could \"go bad.\"


After using it in water for awhile and liking it, I tried it in lotions, with varying effects...and let my water mix sit on the shelf.

Last night, dusting the bathroom shelves, I noticed my spray bottle has solids floating around in it and the sides of the bottle are scummy. GROSS! I shook it hard and the particles did break up some, but now it\'s a very cloudy solution, less than appealing to look at, and impossible to think of wearing.

What happened? Anyone have a guess?

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Unless there\'s a chemical reason alcohol is bad for EW, I\'d favor diluting with alcohol instead of water. Alcohol-based, it should mix well with just about anything (perfumes, colognes, oils, lotions, and further alcohol and water based dilutions). Water-based EW won\'t mix with oils. I also think alcohol makes a better preservative than water.

Possible negatives to alcohol are it may irritate some skin, and it may break down the fatty acids in the EW, but I don\'t know enough about this, so I defer to the chemists on this point. I suspect that water can also break down EW, especially if it isn\'t pure distilled. Alcohol-based, it may also release a more intense scent until the alcohol has all evaporated.

Bruce,

I live in Portland. I visit Eugene every few weeks!

Ptolemy

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Regarding your spray bottle with the cloudy solution of EW in water, and just groping for data:

How long had the mix been sitting? Was it by any heat source? Had the spray bottle held anything prior to your mix that may have left a contaminant? Was the water distilled or tap? Has the scent changed? What was the concentration of EW to water? Since shaking it, has the cloudiness disolved into the water, or condensed back to the surface? Has it changed color? Do you suspect it is ALIVE?

[**DONOTDELETE**]

It sat for about a week. Not near a heat source. No residue in the bottle to begin with. Bottled spring water. No scent change. EW to water was 1:10000. Since shaking, some of the cloudiness has disolved back into the water, but there are still particles floating around, suspended in the water, not on the surface. It hasn\'t changed color.


I could very well be ALIVE.... lol

[**DONOTDELETE**]

This is a mystery! It could be a chemical or biological effect; we are dealing with organic chemistry. My 1:500 EW in water mix has remained crystal clear for over 5 weeks now. I used distilled water in a 2 oz glass bottle kept at room temperature in the dark. The only change I notice is the scent has become less potent. Perhaps your mix has a contaminant in it, or is reacting to the walls of the spray bottle (plastic?). Was your bottle left in the sun or bright light, possibly causing a photochemical reaction? Could it be in a place that gets very cold, causing the EW to condense out? Could the bottled spring water you used have minerals in it for the EW to combine with? Possible experiement: Rinse out the spray bottle and fill with just the spring water, no EW. Leave on your shelf for a week and see what happens. Also examine the original shipping bottle of EW. Any solids floating in it (hard to see in due to the dark glass)?

[CJ01]

FTR try using distilled water and ethanol 50-70%. And store the mix in a cold place. And maybe use a glass container if you´re not doing that already.

[MadMaxx]

FTR, I have a mix which was done with mostly water(the first mix I did), and it is still fine. Nothing gross has happened to it. I has been several weeks, if not months, since I ordered my EW the first day Bruce said it was shipping. My solution has always been a bit cloudy and white, but that happened when I put some perfume into the water solution. The white cloudiness doesn\'t bother me though. Definitely no solids and no scum!

[**DONOTDELETE**]

\'tis a puzzlement.


I\'ll try a new glass container.

[Bruce]

Maxx,
What is your feeling about cutting the indole content in half? Do you think there is any danger of losing the good effects?
Bruce

[CptKipling]

I know it wasnt aimed at me, but here\'s my in put.

The indole is definately the most apparent (and offensive) at lower concentrations, in the region of 1/100 to about 1/1000. Above that and with a gentile fragrance the smell isn\'t bad. Perhaps cutting the indole would give us an opportunity to test more thoroughly, because at the moment it puts me off anything where I can really smell the EW. My latest experiments have been with quite low concentrations, in the region of 1/3000. Thats mostly an alcohol base BTW.

[Bruce]

Hi Capt,
All input is welcome. I have been leaning towards cutting the indole 50%, but start getting cold feet when I think about the fantastic results that Maxx has been getting. We need to dilute at least 1:100, that is clear, but the rest is a little cloudy. I have a sample with no indole at all and it smells like overripe grapes to me. I think we need at least a little of that cheezy note or we are going to lose results. It is hard to keep things in perspective with the extreme concentration we have now. Let\'s try a 1:100 with half the indole and see what happens.
Thanks,
Bruce

[Whitehall]

A major problem with any product using EW is stability. The fully concentrated samples change within weeks, opened or not. Perhaps in a diluted form, adding an anti-oxidant or similar preservative would be necessary. In end-user preparations, a fixative is almost necessary to better blend the aromas.

[MadMaxx]

Bruce, I can\'t be sure whether we would lose effect or not by cutting indole, since I haven\'t compared the current product to one with less indole. What I can say is that I use a dozen drops or so of my mix daily; my mix being 2 or 3 drops in an ounce of mostly water. Even at that level, and with the amount I wear, I don\'t really find the indole to be a problem. The only time it slightly bothers me might be when I go salsa dancing, which is a pretty intense workout, and I get pretty heated up to say the least. That is when I can detect \"poopiness\" as FTR calls it. I don\'t know whether it is a problem though, and furthermore, it may indeed be necessary. I kind of like the \"dirty\" smell of it, and I wouldn\'t doubt that a lot of women do to. Seriously, some women want to get so close to me that I cant\'t even dance with them properly because they are crowding me to the point that I can\'t move my arms to execute the moves. The odd woman also appears to want to rape me with my clothes on and all. I favor the indole, and I believe that something low on indole may just smell like vinegar or fermented grapes, or whatever. I can detect enough acidity as it is. The point of what I am saying is that I don\'t think people find my smell offensive. The people I ask are not consciously aware of anything other than my perfume. I remember Whitehall or somebody on another thread said something about trying to make a 5 phero mix that smelled like a combination of his armpits, crotch, and rearend. He said that if he accomplished that, then he would have the ultimate. I guess I kind of think along his lines, although not exactly. I mean what do people want? We are trying to smell like pussy to attract a person who is turned on by pussy, whether they be male or female, but these people are asking for something that smells all rosy. Smelly all rosy isn\'t going to conjure up images of wild, passionate, hot copulation. I think we need something a little \"dirtier\".

Anyway, I still can\'t figure out all these people who talk about too much idole at dilution rates of a few thousand to one. I mentioned again and again the concentration and quantity that I use, and I find it very effective, and not offensive. Fruthermore, I have known for years that I am far from olfatory impaired also. I have a more sensitive sense of smell than anyone I am aquainted with. I smell all kinds of things all day that nobody with me can smell at all. So, I don\'t mind the indole level even the way I am using it, so I don\'t see why it shoud be a problem at the higher dilution rates that many others seems to favor.
As a guess, I would say that \"yes\" effectiveness may be compromised by reducing or removing indole. One final thought, maybe whether people are overpowered by the indole or not is dependent on personal body factors; how things are reacting with their own sweat etc.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Ok, Bruce, I finally got a chance to test it out. Don\'t change it. It works great like it is, indole and all. I guess you just have to work with the dilution.An observation, if I may: the women don\'t have all the much to work with - you all have more \'mones already. EW is supposed to be for women to wear. Doesn\'t seem fair to tinker with it to suit the guys if it\'s a women\'s product.You could do a couple of versions. Replicate the original as a chem set version. Make a dilute version and call it EW#1. Cut the indole of that dilute version and make it EW#2. Spend the rest of your natural life answering questions from newbies about what\'s indole and what\'s the difference between the products.

[DrSmellThis]

I recently made my best woman\'s perfumes ever, a classic-type floral musk, with approx. 3 drops EW per oz (plus \"secret\" musk ingredients /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif ). I\'m assuming this was like a female \"Rogue Male approach\", and might be a good dilution. I worked pretty hard on it. I\'ve tried it on four or five women, all of whom smelled yummy without much asss smell.

Incidentallly, the thing that makes EW smell like CHEEZE is definitely butyric acid, a substance that is found in the intestines of both men and women, and protects the gut lining from unfriendly microbes.

I therefore expect it to be a unisex pheromone.

I\'ve been taking the chemical internally as an experiment, in the form of its calcium/magnesium salts. In this form it still smells like cheeze, but \"good-smelling cheeze.\" The product is called Butyr-en, and is available from pure encapsulations only to health care professionals:

http://www.purecaps.com/ (www.purecaps.com/)

The product is also available from Health Naturals, and the Pearl Clinic Pharmacy in Portland, OR, to anyone.

I believe it might affect the sexiness of one\'s breath, based on my experience taking it. It may make my breath smell pleasantly musky. Sometimes I rub it on my arm, but have no stories to share yet.

Anyway, if Stone wants to minimize the cheeze, they just have to reduce the butyric acid content a bit.

Regarding indole, another unisex pheromone, this is a chemical found in high concentrations in jazmine, neroli, and other flowers. Indole is thought to be a strong aphrodisiac; but these flowers have other constituents that neutralize the indole poop smell. So if Stone wants to solve the indole problem, they just need to mix in essential oil of jasmine, or we can do it ourselves. Indole might be available in indolplex, a supplement that promotes estrogen metabolism for bodybuilders.

Scatole is the other \"ass smell\" used in perfumery. It\'s found in civet, which Parisian men used to scent their leather gloves with when trolling at sidewalk cafes. Stone could have added scatole EW as well, but didn\'t. They also might have added some fake ambergris perfume chemicals to achieve a more fishy smell. This is lacking in EW, but is important for pussiez! Another prominent smell on women is very chlorine-like -- almost identical, in fact. Chlorine is chemically similar to estrogen. I also detected none of this smell in EW.

Smelly bodily things are what turns people on in proper contexts, so I\'m not sure it makes sense to avoid them. In general, stanky thangs are always the most prized substances in perfumery.

[franki]

Welcome back, DoctorSmellThis! /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif

[Lucky]

Appreciate the indole information.

Have you noticed any results from ingesting the Butyr-en? I\'m curious about your expectations.

When I tried a very dilute mix for the EW, I felt like I was hallucinating. When I (finally) got some sleep, my dreams were bizarre, too. Should I have expected this?

[CptKipling]

Maybe the Butyric acid is present in vaginal secretions to protect against the microbes there. Still, I\'m not sure they got the conc. right.

[DrSmellThis]

Reasonable hypothesis, Kip.

I agree they could back off a bit. I wonder if balancing the pH as mentioned above would mellow it out. It smells more pleasantly sexy in salt form. Wouldn\'t some of it have to be on the skin as a salt anyway?

[Whitehall]

\"Chlorine is chemically similar to estrogen.\"

Actually, it is difficult to find two chemicals MORE dissimilar! Chlorine is a diatomic halogen gas, a strong oxidizer, and was used as the first poison gas in WWI. Estrogen is a multicyclic organic steroid.


Maybe you meant \"choline\" which has a slight fish smell, another organic.

[cuddlebear]

I think that\'s a safe assumption...

[DrSmellThis]

Oops...perhaps what I should have said is that many chlorinic compounds are chemically similar enough (at least somewhere on the molecule) to bind to estrogen receptors (-- hence the endocrine-related problems, such as estro-genic cancers, that result from such compounds, which are among the most common environmental pollutants) in the body, including receptors in the neuro-olfactory system...

Thanks. Does this pass muster, Whitehall? I flunked chemistry in Kindergarten. /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif

[Whitehall]

Much better!

Estrogens produce those lovely pouty lips, electric velvet skin, and moist \"internal tissues\" we all love so much about women.

I was once gassed with chlorine in an industrial incident and think it deserves mucho respect.

You\'re right about chloro-substituted cyclics often showing affinity for estrogen receptors - like DDT.

[sophie]

This is very interesting....the whiff I sometimes get in PCC and PI/w usage is a chlorine type smell that I have smelled at times in the stalls of well-used ladies\' restrooms. It is not offensive but very distinctive and to me it is reminiscent of chlorine. Just thought I\'d throw that in since men and women seem to smell things differently. Hope that helps.

[DrSmellThis]

Are you trying to say I smell like a woman, sophie?

[franki]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
I recently made my best woman\'s perfumes ever, a classic-type floral musk, with approx. 3 drops EW per oz (plus \"secret\" musk ingredients &lt;img src=\"/ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif\"&gt; ). I\'m assuming this was like a female \"Rogue Male approach\", and might be a good dilution. I worked pretty hard on it. I\'ve tried it on four or five women, all of whom smelled yummy without much asss smell.
&lt;br&gt;
&lt;br&gt;Incidentallly, the thing that makes EW smell like CHEEZE is definitely butyric acid, a substance that is found in the intestines of both men and women, and protects the gut lining from unfriendly microbes.
&lt;br&gt;
&lt;br&gt;I therefore expect it to be a unisex pheromone.

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

FTR, you can read this thread. In another thread there was a discussion about the ingredients of EW, and butyric acid was one of those. Butyric Acid is produced by men and women in anal/genital scent glands (maybe also other scent glands, I don\'t know). This is one of the reasons we smell like we smell down there. Apparently this is a unisex-pheromone and therefore interesting for men too.



Franki /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Butyric Acid is produced by men and women in anal/genital scent glands (maybe also other scent glands, I don\'t know).

Ok, but what you\'re putting on is not just Butyric Acid. You\'re putting on a compound that contains butyric acid.

If it works for you, good. Franki, I recall your saying it didn\'t help you. It didn\'t help Irish; in fact, it went against him. Upsidedown had an incident that could or could not be attributable to copulins in his mix. DrST wears it but I don\'t recall hit stories.
The rest of the men wearing it are not sexually active.

So ... I guess there\'s no way to know yet.

But the only thing I\'ve ever read regarding theory that felt completely right to me was what Upsidedown wrote, about women wanting men who did NOT stray, better for her precious eggs to have someone who\'ll stick around ...

and of course there are theories that females cuckhold, get impregnated by the Wild Man, and then marry the other guy for stability.

So maybe it depends to some extent on whether you want the Wild Man or the marriage material.

Elana and I want the Wild Man. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Does it not make sense that copulins would detract from the maleness of your pheromone signature?

You\'re saying that\'s too simplistic a view because some elements in copulins are not gender specific.

Ok, but in the combinations we have available, they are -- correct? PCC and EW are gender specific as they presently exist, although some of their components are not.

Unless you\'re able to isolate those non-gender specific elements and wear only them, it would seem to me you are giving yourself an \"I have a pussy\" pheromone signature.

I don\'t buy the social validation theory at all. Is that forum myth, by the way, or where did that come from?

[Irish]

The social proof idea gets lots of play on seduction websites in general, apart from the idea of pheros. That\'s no recommendation, of course, but there is a little serious writing about the idea that we want what others want, and in social contexts the popular center of attention draws even more attention, while the loner never gets a chance, this apart from inherent value and simply based on apparent desirability in the eyes of others. Herd mentality. Fashions. If he\'s with an attractive woman or women, he\'s probably not a serial killer.

The social proof idea has been extended on this forum to include phero signals. If she senses desirability in me because I signal evidence of sexual activity, then she\'ll join the herd, or at least be a little more intrigued. Not a preposterous theory on the face of it…just no evidence to back it up from what I\'ve been hearing. My own field work with cops was a bust.

About a year ago I came at it from a different angle. My theory then was I wanted a phero signature as close as possible to a dominant young attractive primitive man living in primitive conditions, unencumbered by culture. Of course modifications would have to be made for modern hygiene and the like, but Tarzan was my phero model. And since Tarzan would be sexually active (symmetric alpha-males get more sex and more partners - that HAS been researched) it seemed logical that Tarzan would be carrying the scent/pheros of recent sex partners. He\'s a harem-master, he couldn\'t help smelling like one. I know, it may sound ridiculous, but it\'s at least as good as some of the other theories you hear around here. The main problem with this theory is that it doesn\'t work - not for me applying cops to myself anyway. It seems to run off the girls, at least on me.

I think pheros are just one part of unconscious signals we send, and some applied signals may clash with an individual\'s body language, looks, personality, etc.

I was intrigued though when I heard ladies on the forum saying cops turned them on. From what I\'m hearing now though that effect is context-dependent. Using them on yourself and falling into fantasy, not reading cops as part of a man\'s signal.

So what do I do now with my lifetime supply of 1ml EW??

[**DONOTDELETE**]

That\'s easy - send it to me!

One of the most brilliant things I think John Gray ever said was that men need to be admired, and women need to feel special.

How special would a woman feel if you come around to her signaling in some way that you\'ve been with another woman?

The social validation theory does not feel right at all and I wonder how much it\'s become accepted as truth just because people bandy it about so.

It flies in the face of everything we know about women.

It would be nice to be able to get some real evidence one way or another, but in the meantime, I wonder how many lost chances there have been because of bad information?

It\'s like the idea that because women get turned on by the women\'s products, the men should wear them. It completely misunderstands what the woman is reacting to.

I hope more guys will try, but I hope they don\'t make their minds up that the social acceptance theory is 100% and structure their moves to fit that, because I have my serious doubts about it and as far as I know, it\'s something y\'all have heretofore kept among yourselves, so you didn\'t have a chance for a woman to think about it with you.

(don\'t you long for those good old days?)

My motives are good if I\'m a pain in the ass, anyway - I want to hear hit stories and for everybody to have good hunting.

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif