Good Friends -> Partner

[sabSpeaks]

I just wanted to share a pheromone-related success of mine. Not a typical \"hit and score\" pheromone story, but it seems worthy of posting.

I have been good friends with a particular girl for four years (read: nice guy, supplicant). Over these four years, she has never shown even the slightest affection for me, and even turned me down a couple times. Pheromones and some behavioral changes on my behalf have completely turned this around.

This year I\'ve been (ab)using pheromones at school on a daily basis, and there\'s been a significant change in her behavior. She often got tense/nervous around me and gave dazed stares. A few times, she spontaneously \"complained\" that she was getting very wet and her tampon was too damp (HEH).

Last month, I made the final catch and got her to consent to a purely sexual relationship. Since, we\'ve been hooking up on a weekly basis and I\'ve been getting just about everything except actual intercourse.

Anyways, point being, any advice on making the right move to nail her? She is quite submissive to me, probably due to the -none/-rone, and seems as if it wouldn\'t take much.

BTW I use Edge and SOE, ratio depending on the occasion.

Thanks for reading,
- Greg

[frenchie]

nice post, Greg ! You give me a lot of hope !
I\'m actually friends with a particular girl too - the point is that she already has a girlfriend, and it seems I have no chance actually though she likes me very much, and she knows about my feelings...
Pheros ? not pheros ? she says it\'s getting really nice to talk with me, as in the beginning I was a lot more \"aggressive\" (I\'m very shy and, as a woman, I don\'t really know how to manage).
I did change my behavior - I\'m more open, show my sensibility a lot more and she tells me she really appreciates it.

I still believe pheros work best when you feel good and true...

Wish you all the best !

Frenchie

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Greg, With the use of pheros comes great responsibility, i wouldnt go all the way with this girl unless you have a commited relationship and both parties are willing to have a family and supply the needed support for the baby, because if you push for a sexual relationship and get one, eventually, you will have to deal with her becoming pregnant. If youre not at that stage yet with her, then i would suggest taht keepign the relationshp as it is, without the actual intercourse, will actually strenghten the relationship with her because youre \"waiting\", i know that this advice seems bogus since everything you read, see, hear everywhere says go ahead and have sex, and theres not much of a voice out there for holding out, but i tell you from experience that if you really care about this young lady and want to have a future with her, then you can respect her and the relationshp enough to not force the issue of intercourse unless it is a mutually talked about and agreed situation, that would result in the equally shared responsiblity of raising a child /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif good luck dude!

[Elana]

, \"because if you push for a sexual relationship and get one, eventually, you will have to deal with her becoming pregnant. If youre not at that stage yet with her, then i would suggest taht\"

or you could use birth control /ubbthreads/images/icons/tongue.gif

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Uh ... yeah. /ubbthreads/images/icons/laugh.gif

[sabSpeaks]

::smiles and nods::

Unprotected sex has strong implications of dedication to your partner. Unfortunately, this mentality is too often applied to protected sex. While society tends to view them as the same, the difference is colossal.

That being said, I\'m not interested in unprotected sex at this point in my life and should not have to deal with the implications provided (pregnancy, certain STD\'s).

Thank you for your opinion.

[sabSpeaks]

self-bump

[Watcher]

Bump bump im back

[sabSpeaks]

\"You\'re cologne rubbed off on my sweater. There\'s definitely something sexy about your scent.\"

That\'s TE and a little SOE for you.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

You know you\'ve got it right when she begs you to leave a t shirt you\'ve worn behind for her to wear to sleep in...or use as a pillow case.

[sabSpeaks]

BTW I scanned my yearbook photo for this year if anyone wants to see.

http://sabnetwork.com:8080/~sab/schoolpic.jpg (\"http://sabnetwork.com:8080/~sab/schoolpic.jpg\")

It\'s not full body, but I\'m relatively tall and thin (6\'1, 130 lb).

Greg

[MaxiMog]

Lighten up, man! What are you looking so sad for?

[**DONOTDELETE**]

sabSpeaks, you\'re a knockout. Soulful eyes, a gorgeous mouth, beautiful chin (love that cleft), great bones, good skin.... You\'re da money. And smart, too. Whoever doesn\'t want that package has a hole in her head.

[Elana]

You have some seriously sexy lips...also loving that cleft chin

[sabSpeaks]

Nice... I\'m on the verge of seducing another old friend. She recently changed schools and hasn\'t seen me in six months. That is, until yesterday. I wore two sprays of -none (the Edge) for the occassion. And she\'s obsessed. I needn\'t say any more.

Now, the challenge of playing my cards right. Wish me luck.

BTW, thanks for the compliments on the picture!

- Greg

[cuddlebear]

2 sprays of none and she\'s obsessed! Hmm .... wish I could get results like that. I have used PI/m and a stronger but no more effective version called Pheromone 2000 (which I can\'t recommend because it is ridiculously expensive and doesn\'t work one bit better than PI/m) and I have never experienced a woman becoming obsessed with me ... but hey, Congrats, and I\'m sure I speak for all when I say I hope you play your cards right too .. good luck! Cuddles /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif

[sabSpeaks]

Indeed, I did not play my cards right. Now I emphasize: LEARN FROM MY MISTAKES!

The lesson learned is not new by any measure. It never pays to be a supplicant! (or, as Ross Jeffries puts it, \"He who supplicates, masturbates.\")

I will document my mistakes in the following.

1.) The night before, I revealed to her by writing (email) that I had feelings for her.
-- An obvious mistake on my part that anyone should realize. This makes me come off as weak and begging for her affection. In addition, this makes me appear attainable and within reach, which is the opposite of the desirable.

2.) When with her, she appeared somewhat uncomfortable to touching and holding hands. After a while, I told her, \"If you just want to be friends, tell me now.\"
-- This was an unwelcome break from alpha-male aggressive persistence. Not only am I showing weakness in this, I am giving her an easy way out. After this, she responded \"I think that would be best for now,\" which was a definite sign of failure.

I sincerely hope this has been an educational experience for aspiring seduction artists in the forum. You can read everything in the world on the subject of seduction, but nothing is more important than experience.

Yours truly,
Sab

[**DONOTDELETE**]

What a fine, brave post.

[franki]

/ubbthreads/images/icons/blush.gif I wish I had known that when I was 15.

[Watcher]

Hence forth she bailded, at least women are predictable. She didnt then say that she wanted to keep going out with you no, what did she do bail and be freinds.
Oh well helps the seduction artists in that their pick-up techniques work on all women anyway.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

well i found when your wearing pheromones, its cool to tell a woman you like them. I mean i don\'t know how you expressed this to her. You got to tell her in a cool manly way. I think your first mistake is telling her in a email. you got to get your pheromones on get close, look in her eyes wait for the dihl , tell her then kiss her before she knows what happens. When you told her over an email, thats like saying im scared of you and can\'t talk to your face. No woman wants a man who is intimindating by her. seriously you got to let the woman know you got some balls so you get to use them!

[marv14yag]

Yeah, in PERSON, even if a girl doesn\'t like you...MOST girls are polite...MOST won\'t do the, act wierd, etc...Even if they DON\'T like you, you will at least FLATTER them, if you tell them in person, and that you got the balls to do it...But, I wouldn\'t go about it saying, I like you, no no, you have to say it in a better, cooler way, like this dude is saying....And, plus, what the HELL were you thinking...You gots to wear pheromones when asking this girl out, not e-mail...lol...Which, I would suggest rone and nol...SOE actually, little none, I mean, rone will give you leadership, but, when you ask a girl out, you don\'t want to be implying sex UNLESS you are in a club/bar, or, she\'s just \"like that\" and than, yes, you can...

Bart

[marv14yag]

Bro, I seen your pic...Read your posts...All you need to do is eat MEAT and LIFT WEIGHTS.... I used to be really skinny, not no more, lol.....Chicken and Rice, and milk, and iron....

Bart

[Gerund]

It was brave.

The way I see the problem is this: Women want guys who are emotionally AVAILABLE, maybe even emotionally VULNERABLE sometimes... but never emotionally WEAK.
Speaking for myself, I don\'t easily or readily always appreciate the nuances among being emotionally: 1. available; 2. vulnerable; or 3 weak... I\'m sure I\'m not the only guy who doesn\'t have a handle on this~ Well, I\'m way better at it than I used to be, but heck, I\'m 44 and have lots of experience. For younger guys, it\'s like walking through a booby-trapped jungle out there! hehe

[sabSpeaks]

I must disagree with your comment.

Yes, women say they want men who are emotional and \"there for you\", but in reality their selection is different. Women go for the alpha-male (say dominant male for our purposes), who must appear UNRESPONSIVE to their opinion of them.

A man who is \"emotionally available\" is a NICE GUY and a supplicant.

[sabSpeaks]

\"And, plus, what the HELL were you thinking...You gots to wear pheromones when asking this girl out, not e-mail...lol...\"

Yes I agree! This was a mistake, and I pointed that out.

I am usually wary of using online communication as an easy alternative to saying something to one\'s face. However, email is good way to drop hints without actually telling the recipient anything, which is what I intended on doing.

[Gerund]

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I must disagree with your comment. A man who is \"emotionally available\" is a NICE GUY and a supplicant.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Nonsense. Perhaps you need to make an allowance for experience here, and give yourself and the females around you the opportunity to mature a bit. What you have experienced so far, at the age of 15, provides an insufficient basis for deciding how women are, and for concluding that they\'ll stay that way.

Look, when I was 15, I was also extremely irritated by the all-too-common situation in which the most desirable babes always seemed to hook up with the uncaring [censored] guys. So I understand where you\'re coming from. But shouldn\'t you at least consider the possibility that circumstances (and your opinions) may change over the next 29 years? (at which point you become an old codger-butt like me, railing about impatient youngsters). /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif

[**DONOTDELETE**]

booby traps LOL /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif that\'s what they are!!!
Good post. We can all learn from each other\'s mistakes. I find that when I\'m feeling the most vulnerable is the WORST time to tell a girl about my feelings for her. I usually wait until a day when I\'m looking and feeling my best (my most confident). Sometimes a couple of drinks doesn\'t hurt - not for courage, but as a bail-out if it goes sour. You can always fall back on \"what was in that wine?? - boy was I pouring my heart out to you and that never happens heheheh\" and smooth it over until the next good opportunity to try again. Of course it lowers her inhibitions a little too, so that doesn\'t hurt!
For some reason I don\'t pick up on the girls who really like me, it\'s just the ones who don\'t seem available I go after. But get a few Heinekens in me and as long as you have 2 t*ts and a heartbeat I\'ll love you forever....or at least a few hours.
My suggestion would be to make up some lame excuse for the e-mail. The cornier the better. Make a little fun of yourself if you have to, (I\'m a silly boy with a bad case of puppy love, etc. etc.) but keep it light-hearted and you should be able to move on from the incident. Maybe.
Good luck from another man on the quest for booby-traps

[sabSpeaks]

Gerund:

In all fairness, are you trying to use your age as the solitary argument to defend your point?

At your age, I can understand your point of view. Women are clearly looking for something very different at that age-- namely, a husband. But keep in mind that the girls I\'m dealing with are confused and unsure of what they want, and it is safe to generalize that they have different desires than, say, a woman of 45.

In that respect, you are completely correct when you say that the circumstances will change over the next 29 years.

In essence, we are talking about two different species here, and I respect your opinion of the respective subject.

Apologies for the misunderstanding.

Sab

[cuddlebear]

In reading this thread, I noticed something very encouraging which I hope continues in future threads. Someone bombed out, posted anyway and provided theories as to what they did wrong. Not only brave, but EXTREMELY USEFUL cuz us guys need to know not only what to do, but also what NOT to do. Would like to see more of this in the mix. And I must also practice what I\'m preaching, so I will also make it a point in future hit/miss reports. Cuddles /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Guys get uncomfortable and freak out when girls reveal big feelings, too.The bad thing about email as a declaration is the lack of your reassuring presence -- taking it up a level should probably happen in person while your target\'s under your spell, whatever that \"spell\" consists of, and while you are be there to respond to and direct whatever emotions come up. Email is a good way to reinforce what you\'ve already established. But it\'s -- I keep thinking of the 24-hour rule you guys talk about ... she had enough time between the email and seeing you to get scared and start thinking, \"What does it MEAN...oh, god, now what am I into...\"Here\'s a secret: alpha males may appear unresponsive in that they don\'t jump when you say jump -- but they jump, down the line. /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif They just make it look like they\'re doing it because it\'s suddenly their own idea or because they finally got around to it. In any relationship, pleasing your partner is important and it has to be done, no matter under what guise. You can be the cool guy who listens, nods, and says he\'ll think about it, when asked for something - and maybe he doesn\'t say yes every time, but he says yes often enough that he keeps you hooked (remember, intermittant reinforcement schedule). Or you can be the guy who jumps when she says jump. For a woman who only responds to alpha, it\'s probably better not to jump every time she says jump. As far as emotional availability - I\'m going to take a stab at this - we want a guy who can handle our emotions -- NOT a guy who is like a girl in his expression of emotions. Doesn\'t freak out if we cry, for example, so that we end up having to shut down and comfort him because he\'s so panicked that we\'re crying that it becomes a matter of quelling his anxiety. Who can still listen even if we\'re mad without buying into the mad and getting mad too - he holds the line and stays sane but understanding. I\'m typing this and knowing it\'s wanting a ridiculous lot - but there\'s a difference between being understanding and being the same as us. If we\'re over-emotional, it doesn\'t help the situation if you also get over-emotional.There\'s a difference between being nice and being a supplicant. A nice alpha guy (these terms are not antithetical) has a quality of being extremely inviting. A supplicant guy doesn\'t invite; he begs. He\'s not drawing you and letting you come to him - he\'s trying to pull you. That invites resistance. There\'s a subtle dynamic to begging - you\'re putting the woman in the power position and you\'re asking her to give to you. A woman who needs an alpha wants makes the alpha her source - she wants to be able to ask the alpha to give to her - he\'s put himself in the position of having what she needs. If he\'s got her really hooked, she believes he\'s the only one who can give her what she needs. He\'s not asking her (overtly, anyway) for anything.But every once in awhile he tells her he loves her and the whole world lights up. /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gifThis is very different from the guy who sends you flowers, teddy bears, necklaces, love letters, boxes of candy, trinkets etc. and says \"I love you\" every time you turn around **because he\'s desperate to hear you say it back** not because he\'s genuinely feeling it at the moment. That kind of \"I love you\" is a demand for reassurance. That\'s why women don\'t like it. Men don\'t like it either.rambling, hope this helps. Oh, P.S. Being a woman of 45, I think I am qualified to speak to this with some authority: rest assured that the last thing we are looking for is husbands. lol

[Gerund]

Greg, I can see this is like an open nerve with you right now, which mirrors how I often felt about dating, back in the old days when we used to ride dinosaurs to school. So just let me try to conclude this on a note of support: whenever your time comes to enjoy a great relationship with a female who is right for you (whether it\'s tomorrow or next year), I\'m confident you\'ll find it was worth the aggravation and waiting. /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif

[**DONOTDELETE**]

I think I\'m about to sign up to FullTiltRedhead \'s fan club soon ;-)

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Ooo! Ladies, I nominate Alchemist to be the Alchemist of the Full Member Club.

[Elana]

I second the nomination /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif