Cutting Short On Losses

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Would you agree with me if I told you somethings just don\'t work for some people? Unfortunately, the scientific world is not focusing more on pheromone research and today we\'re still experimenting with combos to see what might work. Just imagine having a simple formula to determine your phero signature so you would know what combo to use? Today we\'re merely guessing what might work and as you know there are billions upon billions of ways chemicals can be combined to form a new one. \"To believe they will work\" is no better than saying \"believe in yourself\". We all know self-confidence is not something you can decide to have-more so when it comes to dealing with the opposite sex.
With that in mind, I\'m hangin my gloves and moving onto work on other areas that might bring greater benefits to my social life. I wasn\'t an active participant on this forum because after reading so much about so many combos and actually trying them out, I figure \"Some things just don\'t work for everyone and more important some things don\'t work for me\".
Bruce is great at keeping an excellent relationship between himself and his customers, so this is by no means an attack on the same person who allows me to post this message.

Some of your stories are unbelieable. What I\'m glad pheros has probably done for you is to wake you up. You started paying attention to others instead of walking around consumed by your own thoughts and perceptions. I believe that is the first step to successful relationships. Keep those stories coming.

-Jarocho

[jose]

In my opinion Pheromone research is in its infancy so until we get a Phero that works every time you use it (no matter what age or physical appearance you have) it will be a breakthrough. For now we have to use the products we have, if it doesn\'t work you move on to other things. Some stories are exaggerated but whose to say it wasn\'t a hit. All I know is that strange and wonderful things have been happening around me since I started using these products 5 years ago. To see people\'s behaviors change around you it\'s a very odd thing to experience. You also have to account that if you wear Phero around your intended target it might not work on her/he whose attention you\'re trying to get. I do believe that some products don\'t work for everyone, maybe it\'s what they eat or body chemistry who knows....

Here\'s a list of products that didn\'t work for me.-
1.The Edge (scented and unscented)
2.Andro 4.2
3.New Pheromone Additive
4.Pheromol Factor
Here are the ones that have worked.-
1.Primal Instinct(unscented)
2.Scent of Eros(oil and Gel packs)
3.Alter Ego
4.Super Primal Oils(I only use these as a cover scent for PI)
5.Intimate Research Cologne\'s(\"The Roman\" \"Hoops\" \"Millennium 2000\")
6.Mr. Pheromone
Will start testing EW and RM when the opportunity arises. The best thing about this WebSite that other companies don\'t have is customer service and a money back guarantee,if people would take the time to mail it back that is.

[CptKipling]

<blockquote><font class=\"small\">In reply to:</font><hr>

We all know self-confidence is not something you can decide to have-more so when it comes to dealing with the opposite sex.

<hr></blockquote>
I would dispute that, ok maybe its not like flipping a switch, but it really isnt that difficult. Of course I can only speak for myself, so I appologise if this is a terrible, gross exaggeration aswell.

It does seem like a lot of the reports are over the top, but then I have no problem dissmissing them and listening to people I trust.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

I would have to disagree that confidence can not be changed quickly. I think confidence is purely a state of mind. Unless you are suffering from a medical condition like clinical depression, I believe one merely has to decide that he or she is a worthwhile person to get to know and change a few cosmetic things like their cloths, hair, etc (ie. clean up their appearance) and they will be surprised at their results. As far as Pheros, yes maybe they help boost confidence a little but I also think from my short lived experience that they do work as I have had some pretty wild results in recent weeks, like this woman hunting me down and giving me her phone number after a short conversation at a deli. Trust me, these things DO NOT happen ever to me. I know its not all me, I am pretty much the same person as before Pheros just with a new tool to give me an edge. So, good luck to you but I would say that you haven\'t given Pheros a good enough chance along with maybe changing your appearance a little. Lord knows I needed some new cloths to dress up a little nicer.

[belgareth]

I have been experimenting with pheromones for about two months now but am not ready to post my results. I do feel that pheromones have been a useful tool in my business. Part of my work is going out, meeting new people and attracting new business to my company. The responses from people I meet have been noticably different.

It\'s possible that my attitude has changed as a result of wearing pheromones but I have been careful to not change anything else. The point is to get as objective of results as possible. And the results are good so far.

Sorry to hear that you are not seeing good results.

Belgareth

[Whitehall]

Like Abe Lincoln said \"You can fool some of the people all the time, and all the people some of the time, but you can\'t fool all the people all the time.\"


I think that applies to exogenous pheromones too. Except that some rare users can\'t fool ANY of the people ANY of the time!

[**DONOTDELETE**]

There is something that works for most people who try this stuff. You can fool some people most of the time and not fool a lot of people not often enough.
The actual science behind this stuff is valid enough - we all produce testostrone after all and androgens are available as internal supplements (androgens are used by the medical profession as drugs as injections to correct some sex drive problems)
Androrolgy labs are sperm banks in other words so its big business (just some medical technincal info there)
The beatuy of this forum is that on top of the phero data there are links and advice for improving self confidence and info on commication and links to sites like askmen.com and fastseduciton.com etc.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

There is also a big difference between \"confidence\" and “appearing confident”. What women perceive as \"confidence\" is being cool and laid back (not nervous) and in charge. It turns out that with single women I am usually confident, but do not APPEAR confident.

I recently asked a female friend of mine why “all” married women adore me (including wanting to have sex) and single women are usually not too impressed. She (who also is married and is VERY attracted to me) said that I treated married women and single women very differently. She said that I sound like a \"scared little school boy\" when talking to single women that I was attracted to, but I sound \"confident\" when I was talking to married women.

All the incidents that she mentioned where I was nervous were group social outings where I was “being introduced” or “set up” with a girl. My friend told me that I was overly talky and it comes across as needy.

I am personally wondering if it is a situation where the observers (the “group” in the group outing) causes the phenomena (the nervousness). I definitely get more nervous when there is a freakin audience of friends watching me try to score. /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif

Anyway, I have found that the secret to “appearing confident” are the questions “Does she like me? ...”Is this going well?”..... and ”What will happen later?”.

If I am asking myself those questions then I am probably coming across as nervous and needy. If I am not asking those questions, then I APPEAR far more confident.

I think that this phenomena is the reason why “Jerks” are so smooth with the women. They DON’T CARE if the woman likes them (emotionally) and the woman has no inherent value as a person. They only care about if the woman is going to have sex with them. Everything is, on some conscious or subconscious level, calculated to get the woman into bed, not to make the woman “like” them.

By thinking nothing, they get everything! How Zen!

I cant believe it has taken so long for me to figure this crap out.


/ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Here\'s my 2 cents on \"confidence\":

If you are asking yourself,...\"am I saying the right thing?\" \"Does she like me..\"....any of those questions, chances are, you are appearing un confident around her. Needy, timid, shy,....however you want to characterize it.

On the contrary, if you have good posture, lean back in your chair, make lots of eye contact and generally have a \"whatever happens, happens\" attitude, your perception by others will radically change. Body language and voice quality matter more than what you\'re actually saying.

I practice some of this stuff at school. On Monday nights, I sit next to a super hot babe at school. She could be in a J Lo video or something. So of course, I sit there like I\'m the most confident guy in the room, talking to her as if I talk to anyone else. It\'s pretty cool.

\"By thinking nothing, they get everything! How Zen!\"-cool quote

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Yeah, I know it seems that treating women like [censored] is the fastest way to get them into bed ... but I could never treat them like that. I guess it was just hammered into me that you treat women with respect.; you know , being a gentleman, etc .

I\'ve thought about it many times , that treating them in that way is probably \'out dated\' and even made my mind up to start treating them like cheap whores as many of my buddies have - but it just isn\'t me and could never attempt it. Besides , it would show through as an \'act\' anyway, just like \'false self confidence\' does like was already mentioned.


And to tell you the truth, as corny as it might sound, although I believe that treating them bad and not giving a [censored] how they feel is the most productive road to more notches on your bed post , I\'ll survive will less ass and at least feel right about myself. After all I\'m the one who has to live with myself 24/7.

But that\'s just me .... friends of mine [censored] all over their women all the time and the girls seem to love it and keep coming back for more so who am I to say what\'s right and wrong in 2002 ?

And look at me right now .... I\'m sitting here giving my opinion on some message board - rather than getting ready for a date right now, LOL !

Yeah ... I\'m the guy to listen to .... LOL !

[DrSmellThis]

Nothing wrong with being a cheap whore.

Many, many women really want permission to act like the \"cheap sluts\" they really are. And I, being the dog I am, am kind enough to give it to them.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

You are dead on about the body language idea! Body language is probably more crucial than words in many instances.

I look at it like acting. In fact it IS acting.

Act (convincingly) like a stud-boy and people will perceive you (and treat you) as a stud-boy and you will be/become a stud-boy.

Easy to say, sometimes hard to do, but I have seen it done. Some of the most psychologically damaged and personally insecure guys I have ever met have NO true self esteem, but are highly skilled chick magnets. They can get the women, but they are absolutely wretched and unhappy.

(Thanks for the compliment on the quote) /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif

[sophie]

Quote: \"I am personally wondering if it is a situation where the observers (the “group” in the group outing) causes the phenomena (the nervousness). I definitely get more nervous when there is a freakin audience of friends watching me try to score. \"

no wonder you\'re nervous in that kind of situation; that is a lot of pressure....can you get away from this audience? It\'s so much easier to be yourself when you\'re not \"on stage\".

good luck!

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Thanks for the feedback!

I thought it was interesting that she said that I did not seem very confident because the 2 women I had gone out with (by myself) during that period were both \"successful dates\" in that the women and I both wanted second dates and we both had a good time.

I certainly feel like I am \"on stage\" during the group activities, and a lot less so when it is one on one.

Of course my friend(s) can only see me when they are present (I hope /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif ), so they would only see me when I feel like I am \"on stage\". Therefore they only see me when I am more nervous than usual.

Damn, my brain hurts.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

One way to make yourself charming in a social situation where you\'re nervous and self-conscious is 1) monitor your body language -- set it on Warm and Freindly and do not deviate from that -- then decide that your mission is to put the other person at ease --focus on the other person. This helps you feel in control of your behavior so you feel calmer, and it always makes people find you attractive. You\'re warm, friendly, and interested in them. What could be more charming?

[EXIT63]

.....I recently asked a female friend of mine why “all” married women adore me (including wanting to have sex) and single women are usually not too impressed. She (who also is married and is VERY attracted to me) said that I treated married women and single women very differently. She said that I sound like a \"scared little school boy\" when talking to single women that I was attracted to, but I sound \"confident\" when I was talking to married women......

Obviously, you are more at ease around the married women. Ya know why? Cause they are not available. Get over your fear of single girls. (Please don\'t rip me up. I\'m not busting your balls. I\'ve noticed similarities in myself.) Step outside of yourself for a moment and look at the way you act around the 2 groups of women. Notice any difference? They do. That girl told you flat out that you act like a little boy. First, thank her for her honesty. Then slap her upside the head...LOL

Do ya see where I\'m going with this? Cause I don\'t.
Anyone
Anyone

Bueller


I have got to cut back on the caffiene.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

I completely agree with the \"married women are safe\" concept...to an extent, but if viewed completely that way then my options are limited.

Here is what I mean...Married women are COMPLETELY off limits in my book, and because of that I NEVER go after married women in a dating/mating context...therefore absolutely no possibility of rejection...and no possibility of having sex (I wont let it happen...even though I am often tempted). Married women see me in \"everyday life\" and not in the absolutely artificial social construct called \"dating\" or \"the bar scene\", or \"stalking\", or whatever (just kidding about the stalking bit /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif ). There is no time pressure to get to know married women and, of usually, no true consequences if I ignore them. I RARELY meet single women in \"everyday life\" (I own my own business and work at least 65 hours a week).

The whole point of all this over analytical stuff is that I generally CAN NOT treat single women like I treat married women and vice versa. I get to know most married women (who chase me) over a period of time and that allows different facets of my personality to show, including many that are not apparent on \"dates\".

Whenever someone points out how “successful” I am with married women and indicates that I should do the same with single women I get incredibly frustrated. I mean, here I have an unintentional but HIGHLY effective woman-getting strategy that WILL NOT transfer over to single women because the social dynamic is completely different.

It seems that I have behaviors for \"married women\" in everyday life and behaviors for \"single women\" on dates. Since I generally don’t have the same time to get to know single women outside of “dates” I need to change my dating behaviors to all new dating behaviors especially tailored towards projecting confidence on dates. I have to learn to appear \"confident\", \"laid back\" and even a little \"macho\" on \"dates\".

I exude so much confidence in everyday life that people flock to me (no kidding), but dating/mating confidence and \"everyday confidence\" do not necessarily spill over into each other, from what I can tell.

My chick magnet friends say \"just do what comes naturally\". Hell, dating is such a modern and artificial concept that the idea of \"doing what comes naturally\" is oxymoron. \"Natural\" would be for me to kill all my romantic rivals with a club and to throw the woman over my shoulder and take her home while grunting. /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif

The most frustrating situation I have found on \"dates\" is when the woman is really interested in me, but she does not know how to show it! I have learned (after extensive study) female flirting body language and some of these women just SIT THERE and kinda do a Deer In Outer Space (even before the \'Mones) and expect me to know that they are receptive. I have read all kind of accounts where the woman was saying \"I gave him every signal in the book...but he obviously did not like me\" where the woman\'s signals were \"showing up, talking, and occasionally laughing\". Give me a break.

All this leads up to a conclusion and a plan. The conclusion is that I am too afraid of being a \"bad guy\" with single women and treat them \"too nice\" and \"do not want to hurt them\". Also \"trying to decide if the woman is receptive\" is a HORRIBLE strategy. I obviously can not depend on the signals they are giving (unless they are overt and clearly indicative of interest).

The Plan is to be \"James Bond Nice\" but decidedly sexually assertive in EVERY case and not to give a [censored] about whether the woman likes me or not and to NOT try to make an emotional connection before a semi-sexual connection is made. I think that my strategy of \"trying to get to know the woman\" before serious sexual overtures are made pushes me directly into the LJBF category and makes me APPEAR emotionally needy...which is very unattractive from what I understand. It is better to get slapped often than to never score! (Thank you Beavis !!!)

In other words, act like a jerk.....but don’t be one! Wow. I need a drink.

To bring this whole post around full circle, though, I hope the pheromones DO have a magic bullet effect (I am using NPA and SOE), and I can see a small difference in people when I wear them (I was -NONE heavy one day and a married woman told me that I \"could be very intimidating, but in a good way\". /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif I was told later that she definitely meant it as a sexual comment. I have never received THAT compliment before!!!

The research and the comments on this board are more than enough to convince me that pheromones do have an effect, but even if the effect is just slight, I DO FEEL MORE CONFIDENT when I am wearing them. I have a lot more of the \"If she doesn’t like me then it is HER PROBLEM\" attitude than if I am not wearing them. Hell, It must be her problem! I am stud-boy when I wear my pheromones!

Thanks! I am very grateful for all your comments!


P.S. Get this ....I think this is funny in that “God is laughing” kind of way.

From my discussions with (truthful) women they admit that they are full of insecurities too and they indicate that they should not have to send guys signals in order to get them to try to kiss them because the guy “should be a man and just go for it”. Now the guy is (reasonably) waiting for the woman to give him ANY reliable signal that it is O.K. to make a move and would be more than happy to grope her! (In a good way, of course) /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif

The woman will not give an obvious signal, because if she does, then she risks rejection if the signal is not acted upon. The guy must not be “a real man” because men are expected to bear all the risk of rejection at that stage of the mating game....even though the woman is INTENTIONALLY not sending out signals of receptivity. This creates a situation where the guy gets blamed for the woman’s own lack of confidence and insecurities! One more reason to be sexually assertive in ALL cases.

I will quit typing now.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

I was hoping you would chime in FTR, I respect your
opinions!

I think that often I am so busy trying to be \"warm and friendly\" and doing so successfully, that I am afraid to upset the woman and ruin the mood by making an unwelcome overture.

I think that I have learned the error in my ways. My mission has to be to be warm and friendly AND make a move no matter what...unless they are giving me obvious \"go the hell away\" signals. /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif

I might have the \"warm and friendly\" part down and just not be \"closing the sale\" !!!

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Oh yeah! I forgot something.

I have actually been told that women find it offensive if the guy does not make a move on the first date. The woman feels like the guy is telling her that she is not desirable and she is left feeling unattractive. No one wants a second date with a person who makes them feel unattractive!

The chance of a second date can often be destroyed because the guy, even though the guy really liked the woman, offended her by not making a move on the first date.

It seems that I have unintentionally offended at least a few women in my time!

[EXIT63]

Stop yapping and just KISS HER for Gods Sake.....Jeez.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

BRAVO, Exit.

Mondodude, yeah, what he said.

And you\'re right about the first date thing.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

I have earned my lesson.....err.....learned my lesson.

I am trying to \"spread the word\" in case someone else is having this kind of problem. It took me YEARS to figure it out.

You \"guys\" rule!

Thanks!

/ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif