NPA (VNO trigger) vs SOE (rone hormone response)

[Watcher]

According to james V kohl there are no substances that can trigger the VNO directly and pheromones raise hormone levels. Rone is said to do this.

But NPA secret x2 ingredients are said to be compounds that trigger a VNO response. PUt them together in DD mixes and you get something that works even better.

Comments anyone.

[abductor]

I remember a lesson of the jujitsu:
\" When you think that knows everything, you will have to learn everything again \"
I like to believe in the people. If Bruce spoke that exists those secret ingredients, I want believe LaCroy Chemical perhaps have find something. But can we be sure?

[jvkohl]

Watcher,
The two substances from Berliner\'s group androstadienone and estratetrynol (sp?) appear to have direct effects on the VNO--can\'t be sure yet. But the connection between the human VNO and any other part of the brain remains in doubt, as does whether or not the VNO is actually involved in the hormone response. So far, there are no studies showing that -rone elicits a hormones response; two (unpublished) studies indicate a behavioral response.

You\'re usually very adept at interpreting things if I\'m not quite clear. This time it looks like you reduced parts of what I\'ve said beyond the minimum explanatory level.

[Watcher]

Looks like i got confused this time, in the past mentions were made by bruce that the secret ingredients in NPA (claims made by its maker) that it explicted a response direct from the human VNO or impacted the human VNO.

Ok so im wondering if youre theroy on rone is that it has ? effect on the human pheormone sensing system.

Two seperate issues, but you doubt that the VNO is no longer working in the human pheromone sensing system, which would mean that only the Anone in NPA would have any impact and the two secret ingredients would have 0 impact whatsoever and should be considered lolly water instead. Which would mean that because Anone has been shown to have negative female effects in sciece studies that SOE is the one that would work best and we should discount NPA altogether (all theory of course, but the fact that NPA has an effect that is good) well i dont know im just all confused up again. Mind you SOE works great also.

[jvkohl]

If this were a valid claim it would mean either new chemicals had been tested for VNO effects, or Berliner\'s chemicals were being used. Berliner\'s group has a patent on the delivery device used to show VNO effects, so
that suggests their chemicals are being used, since there is no other method to test new chemicals.

Effects of -rone may be directly on hormone levels, or may be indirect via its association with other odors
linked with sexual experience. I suspect the effect is on hormones, but it would cost a lot to prove it. Meanwhile,
behavioral effects are less expensive to show. Still, until a large number of study participants can be amassed,
statistical significance will be lacking. I am collaborating on a study with n = 400, if all goes well.

I can\'t discount secret ingredients, or even -none for that matter. It may turn out that -none has positive effects on hormone levels, for example. The fact that it is negatively perceived means little when it is typically present below levels of conscious perception. I\'m not surprised that people get confused. The entire topic of human pheromones is confusing. We still don\'t know a lot of stuff that we need to know--and speculating does tend to lead to confusion. On the other hand, most of what I\'ve learned during the past decade was based on speculation in the latter part of the preceding decade.

[Watcher]

More questions and answers. Well thanks again for some insight jKohl good job as always, its just a though i came up with in reference to the NPA secret ingredients thread. A1 can be brought here the other if it is berliners compounds is repeated earlier in the thread, of course all pure conjecture but a different take on things.

http://www.chez.com/kristalisator/index.htm (\"http://www.chez.com/kristalisator/index.htm\")